From Explorer to Billion-Dollar Coffee Brand

Added: 2026-05-25

[00:00:00]to be with a new episode of Legends and Leaders and today's great to have Todd here. Todd, you've been a pretty powerful force in the coffee space for a long time and now you're taking your talents to water and you've got a pretty interesting idea um that has no sugar, no sweeteners, and it's about creating a way better experience, a better bubble experience um in the product. So, I'm definitely excited to see what's going to happen there, but you've been so revolutionary in the coffee space for a while. You've helped a lot of people through that. You did a really interesting collaboration with Leonardo DiCaprio and you you know, improved lives, improved the water quality for for many. So, um it's great to have you as a guest and looking forward to getting into this. It's great to be here, man. Thanks.

[00:00:36]Awesome. So, early on, how did your interest in entrepreneurship and kind of the beverage space, how did this passion begin? Oh, man, that feels like a lifetime ago, you know.

[00:00:45]For me, I think, you know, everyone has their kind of fork in the road or the path that they take or the decisions they make and I think there's some similarities. I mean, what for me, it was really um that, you know, I recognized when I was 14, 15 years old that I didn't want to be the guy on the bench. I didn't want to be the one that was waiting to be chosen.

[00:01:08]And there's the the best way around that is just to choose yourself.

[00:01:12]You know, entrepreneurship is that. It's taking control of the path of your life and not waiting on the bench to be, you know, picked to play in the game. You begin playing the moment you decide.

[00:01:23]You know, you don't have to wait. You just grab the ball and you start shooting baskets.

[00:01:27]Um and I did that at 15. I started this little lawnmower company and then I Well, I would buy and sell lawnmowers.

[00:01:33]I'd fix them up and and I made profit and I loved that feeling and I had complete control of my own life at a very young age and I said to myself, this is what I want to do. I want to keep doing this.

[00:01:45]I want to be the hero of my story.

[00:01:48]I I don't want to be the guy waiting to be chosen.

[00:01:53]So, it was this mindset that really drove you.

[00:01:55]>> It did. It really did. And it followed in a lot of different areas as well. You know, it's for me my business is like loads of people start companies with the idea that they're starting a business.

[00:02:06]And for me it really wasn't that. It was starting my life. This is what I wanted in my life. I wanted to make things that made other people happy. I wanted to press the limits of, you know, where those things were. Coffee wasn't where it is now in 1990. It just wasn't.

[00:02:25]You know, single origin is you know, a forest, you know, shade grown coffees, specialized coffees, and you know, on and on, cold brew, draft lattes. All these things came after. And it was all really that. It was like going on the outskirts and perimeters of your own hometown and pushing them forward. And by that I mean, you know, the the environment or the business that you're in. You know, nothing is ever finished is the is the thinking and it's up to you to finish it.

[00:02:54]And you know, you can carry that to water, you can carry that to anything.

[00:02:59]So, how did you land on like this specific niche in the coffee space that you had?

[00:03:03]Well, I think first it picked me. You know, I was a farm kid.

[00:03:06]I left for Seattle. I was an endurance athlete. And you know, they they let me go to school because I could run really far, really fast. And but I didn't have enough money for the the everyday things. So, I needed a job, too. And I landed at this warehouse. I'll always remember it. It had these big bay doors and inside there there were guys my age like lugging grain sacks around. And I I knew all about grain sacks. So, I asked if there was any work. They said no and I just kept coming back everyday like you do on a farm. I mean, you just eventually someone's not going to show up, right? And it'll be your gig.

[00:03:39]And eventually I got the gig.

[00:03:41]And when I got in there I read the names on the bags and they were all from Africa, Burundi, Uganda, Tanzania, Kenya, some Central South American. And it was was company. And they had three cafes at the time, and it was just this little family company, and and I started working there, and it was called Starbucks.

[00:03:59]And uh so I was really at the very beginning of what was, you know, it it was like being in Silicon Valley with the very first startup. And it was coming on around me. I I had no money, I had no experience, and I was studying business at school.

[00:04:12]But over time I recognized, I know a lot about welding and mechanics. I know that from the farms. I know a lot about agriculture. And I was learning about the third aspect of it in the business classes at the University of Washington.

[00:04:23]And so it got in my my fiber, and I decided to stick to it. So here I am, I don't know, 61, so I guess that was like 40 years ago.

[00:04:32]I'm still in it. That's it. I'm just It's all about that. You know, it's about the path and the endurance of it all.

[00:04:39]So you So Todd, you were really watching Starbucks get started and seeing how this whole industry could be very different from what it was at the time.

[00:04:46]Because that was a major transformation.

[00:04:47]>> Yeah, people thought at the time that it was just a Seattle phenomenon.

[00:04:51]But I didn't see it that way. You know, I didn't see it that way at all. You know, Howard hadn't bought the company yet, so it hadn't gone nuclear. You know, it didn't get public money.

[00:05:00]But the excitement at the retail level was palpable. I mean, you were a rock star if you knew how to pull a latte.

[00:05:08]Like it it would And it really helped my dating life, you know, cuz I was just a skinny farm kid, and I got to meet people, and I it was just all this excitement all balled up into one.

[00:05:17]Until I recognized, you know, they I come from Scottish stock, and we have this way of thinking about finding your career. It's your calling.

[00:05:26]And it was calling really really loud. I was looking right at it. And I was saying, this is not going to stop here.

[00:05:33]And then you have to keep in mind that coffee has five different categories, and that's brick-and-mortar retail, but you had we called mail order at the time, but which later turned into, you know, e-com.

[00:05:44]You had B2B, you had and CPG, and then you had licensing.

[00:05:48]And they were doing just one, and I was like, "Oh my god, there's just more to do. There's so much more."

[00:05:53]So, La Colombe was built on that. It was going east before it got here.

[00:05:59]And building out those other categories before the big giant came.

[00:06:04]So, how did you come up with like the specific angle for La Colombe? Like initially, like the the recipe for it, the way you were going to make it, the actual product. Like how did you get that piece started?

[00:06:12]>> Well, I learned the first piece when I was 12.

[00:06:15]Uh and it's very simple. You know, the folks who come up to the farm to get the fruit get the best [ __ ] It's just a fact. Like you take your truck to my farm, you're going to get my attention, and you're going to get the best stuff. So, that meant that any roaster that was really interested in taking coffee to the next level had to go to the farms.

[00:06:35]And so, we exercised that. We just We just learned it from being kids, and we exercised it on a bigger platform. 27 different countries we worked with.

[00:06:45]Because we were always going to get the best stuff.

[00:06:48]You work with a farmer year after year, you can apply different techniques that you've learned in different countries to their farms. You can help uh seed capital, seed fund different projects near around the farms in the communities. And the next thing you know, your [ __ ] is really good. I mean, that This is the works that way.

[00:07:06]Um there were a lot of big bigger components and other components, but that was the principal one. Is that we were going to create a relationship. We We saw ourselves as as occupying a very special place in the world.

[00:07:17]We're on this bridge between the developed and the developing world. And while we're bringing coffee this way, we're able to bring things back the other way.

[00:07:26]And those included obviously higher prices and opportunity.

[00:07:31]And it works.

[00:07:33]And you were thinking at the time like, "Let's focus on on exporting this. Let's bottle it up and export it. And we've got these other markets that aren't experiencing what we have currently, and let's bring it to that. That's right.

[00:07:44]Then it's just you know, hamster wheeling it, you know, just like every entrepreneur does. You know, you just got to keep going.

[00:07:52]You know, most companies outside of these you know, these unicorns that we see popping out of California, Silicon Valley, the rest of us the rest of it is an endurance sport.

[00:08:03]You know, it's it is. You know, I I know that you know, when we started approaching that kind of billion-dollar piece, right? And it was about maybe years ago we popped on so many people's radars, and they thought we were fresh on the scene.

[00:08:16]No, I'd already been there for 25 years.

[00:08:18]It takes a while. It takes a while before the nation sees you.

[00:08:23]You know, you really got to work it out.

[00:08:25]You start on your block, and then you go the part of the city, and then hopefully you get the city, and then a little bit more of the region, and then a bigger and more of the area, and then by now you you're really starting to figure out how all the systems work. And then you just try to roll it like a carpet across the country. And that takes some time, and it takes some muscle, and it takes some patience.

[00:08:44]You know, you're going to make mistakes, you learn from them, and you keep going forward. That's it.

[00:08:49]You know, it truly is a lot like walking across Death Valley. I know, I've done both.

[00:08:55]They they just require a lot of endurance and patience.

[00:09:00]Did you do some of that stuff like the ultra marathons and walking across North America because that would also help you in in the business world, like just understanding endurance?

[00:09:08]No, I think I did them because I mean, there's a lot of adventure that I did in coffee. And that was clearly for coffee. And you know, I knew that I can get to places that other people couldn't get to. And so that that played a big part of the company. You know, you looked at our menu of single origins, and they didn't look like anyone else's because we were pushing the limits.

[00:09:30]The the rest of it is because you know, I view what I do as a part of my life.

[00:09:38]They're all the same.

[00:09:41]You know, I mean I set out to become my own hero. That's what I want.

[00:09:46]And so if that means skydiving off something way too high or deep sea diving or surfing a giant wave or walking across that dark together, that's kind of a part of it. Plus sourcing the very best beans, inventing new things like like the first guy to ever put cold brew in a bottle and put it on the shelf. That's the it's it's the same material.

[00:10:07]You know, a draft latte that completely revolutionized how, you know, coffees are served behind the bar.

[00:10:13]Feels a lot like Greenland to me.

[00:10:17]It's the same.

[00:10:18]It's pushing yourself.

[00:10:22]And you were just willing to experiment and try things like you were these were risks as no one really there wasn't any precedent before some of these angles.

[00:10:29]>> You learn that right away, too. It's like then you have to not only create.

[00:10:33]So like you know, for several hundred years the only gas that we could infuse in water was carbon, right? And there's loads of reasons for that. It's super easy to do. I mean, we did it before we even understood like basic science. I mean, this was from like the early 1800s, right?

[00:10:51]And the it but there are other food grade gases that we can use that have a completely different effect. They don't dissolve your teeth, they don't hurt your throat, they actually come off sweet, not salty. etc. etc. Where you can actually blend gases to create an amazing things like hydrogen gas. And like these types of gases can create bubbles. The type of gases that actually improve your metabolism, that help your stomach, that give you benefit. But then also taste so much like sugar that you don't need any.

[00:11:23]Right? This These are the kind of challenges you say, "Okay. Now, that one I had to beat my head against a rock for a long time." And to be able to do it at 600 bottles a minute, too, is is kind of a bit dicey.

[00:11:35]But right now, we hold the technology to be the only company on the planet Earth that can dissolve any gas into any fluid, period. And have you drink it.

[00:11:45]Huh.

[00:11:47]And how did how did you even develop something like that? Well, I think they First, you drive your family crazy.

[00:11:53]The uh and second, you drive them crazy even more. Now, it it always starts with a spark, right? I mean, we we've read this I think everyone has. There's a spark.

[00:12:04]There's this moment, you know, that you go, "Fuck."

[00:12:07]You know, I had for the draft latte um that was squirting whipped cream into my son's mouth.

[00:12:15]I went, "Holy [ __ ] that's canned texture." Cuz I saw in in Seattle in 1982.

[00:12:23]In cafes in '82, we were just learning how to texturize milk. We were just learning how to do lattes and cappuccinos. Before that, it was just cafe au laits. And we didn't sell many, cuz they're really boring.

[00:12:34]It's the same ingredients. It's coffee and milk. But once we learned how to inject gas into it, which water vapor, oh my god, the lines went crazy. So, I knew it the I knew it from the very beginning that's always been about that mouthfeel, that texture, right? And that gas plays a huge component in a lot of the things that we create and we make and we enjoy, right? But we're so limited.

[00:12:56]Do we only got water vapor and carbon?

[00:13:00]Of all the gases on the periodical table, that's the only ones that we can do?

[00:13:04]Just didn't seem rational.

[00:13:06]Now, all my children um come from Ethiopia, from Africa. Now, when you're young and you don't take on carbon, and you try it for the first time when you're eight, let me just tell you it's like slapping the kid in the face. They have no idea what they've just They don't like it. Like, what the hell is this This hurts, Daddy. This hurts. Now my my daughter, my oldest daughter, Yemi, and it was during COVID, just the beginning of COVID, and I have a a beverage lab down in my basement that I I'm always working in.

[00:13:38]She She comes down and says, "Why can't you make a bubble that doesn't burn?"

[00:13:43]That was it.

[00:13:44]And I started to explain to her the reasons why, right? And then as I explained to the reasons why, I thought, "What if you can get around that piece, and what if you can get around that piece?" So for the next 7 months, I slept 2 hours a night until I [ __ ] got it.

[00:14:02]And when I got it, I brought it to her and I said, "How's this?"

[00:14:05]And it was just a thing of beauty.

[00:14:09]Huh.

[00:14:10]So is this that that quality of persistence that you you just embarked on something you were you were going to get it done?

[00:14:15]>> Every You know, every successful story has people come up to them and go, "I had that idea."

[00:14:22]Mhm. Every body.

[00:14:24]I had that idea.

[00:14:26]Yeah, but you didn't grind at it, did you?

[00:14:28]It's not the idea. The idea has very little value on its own. Has no value on its own.

[00:14:35]And everyone has it. More more than you had it. You know, how many times have I heard, "Well, hey, if it was so great, why isn't anyone else doing it?" And I said, "Because everyone else is [ __ ] lazy. It's like you because they're fear. They fear putting a whole bunch of work into something and it not working.

[00:14:50]That's what they fear, right? Well, I'm not afraid of that.

[00:14:54]I fail all the time.

[00:14:56]When I set the world record walking across that dark to give, no one talks about 2007, where I blew to pieces at mile 400 because of a blizzard. I thought I would They pulled me off the ice. I was nearly dead. Huge failure.

[00:15:10]365 days later, I did break the world record, and I learned from that experience.

[00:15:16]You can fail. It's part of success.

[00:15:19]But it's also just grinding at it. Like everyone who you admire has has done that. And whether they're willing to admit it or not, it is no epiphany will get you there. There's no level of genius. There's no nothing like that.

[00:15:33]It's just an idea that many people can have but you followed it it to the end.

[00:15:41]Well said. So, what do you think you did different and like how did you adjust that enabled you to get that world record?

[00:15:48]Um well, it's at the end of the day, okay, Basecamp.

[00:15:53]Let's just say, okay, so I I have a very big mouth. I I say what I think and I said I'm going to be the first man in history to solo across Antarctica unsupported and un-aided, right?

[00:16:04]And not only that, I'm going to break the world record, which was set by a team of 10, right? Wow. It's way it's it's still really hard with a team of 10, but it's but seemingly impossible as one person. So, when I when I said that, the expedition world knew that that would be a first and getting a first in the expedition world is a huge deal, right? Because they can break your speed record, but they can never take away the first, right? So, Basecamp was really populated with a lot of really pumped-up men right like from all over the world. They were going for it.

[00:16:37]After 6 days, I was alone.

[00:16:39]They'd all left. They'd all broken.

[00:16:42]Because of this.

[00:16:44]Two reasons. One applies to business, too.

[00:16:48]You got to know why you're doing it.

[00:16:50]You got to know why, okay?

[00:16:52]And if it's for other people, don't even bother.

[00:16:55]Because you know what? When it starts when it's blowing 60 knots, when it's you can't see past your hands, where you're fearing for your lives and around crevasse fields, where you're exhausted, dragging 300 lb behind you uphill, and you're all alone, and this is you're you're you're going to lose it, right?

[00:17:14]If the reason is you're going to be cool at a cocktail party, you're not going to make it.

[00:17:19]You're not.

[00:17:20]The reason has to be something deeply personal and we're right inside you.

[00:17:24]Find your reason. Now, once you got a reason, it's super easy. It's a lot easier to just plod day after day cuz guess what? You don't have to motivate yourself.

[00:17:36]If you've got a good reason, it becomes obsession. Okay? And once you're obsessed, it's [ __ ] chill, man. You just lay back and let your body do it.

[00:17:45]Just it chant begins in your head. Go.

[00:17:48]Go. Go. Go.

[00:17:50]That's number one. Number two is this.

[00:17:53]And this is really important for business, too.

[00:17:56]Stay in the moment, man. And I know it sounds like I'm going to make you a dream catcher and hang some freaking crystals for you. I'm not. I'm just I'm telling you.

[00:18:07]If you If you spend your time in the future, you will unwind. Like for example, Antarctica. It's very easy to go after the hardest day of your life, literally, the hardest day of your life.

[00:18:18]And you think to yourself, "Oh, I I've got two more months of this." Well, you're not going to make it. You thought of the future, you're the unraveling will begin.

[00:18:27]Don't because your present is only 3/4 of a second long or so, right?

[00:18:33]And you can do anything for 3/4 of a second.

[00:18:37]So, it's as long as you stay in that moment. If you turn around and you think, "Oh my god, you can see the place that you left earlier that day still in view."

[00:18:46]It's going to work on your brain.

[00:18:48]So, the three sections of time, you have the infinite forward, you have an infinite past, you have a very finite present. Stay in that present when you're working.

[00:18:58]Stay focused. Stay in that present. Cuz the future will happen.

[00:19:02]No, every night I have to look up, I take my bearings, you know, I I'd have to read off of a compass, so I had to know the difference between the geographical South Pole pole and the mag- magnetic, right? So, I'd need to find my bearing. So, I would in a sense be looking forward and saying, "All right." And then I'd stop.

[00:19:21]I need to know where I'm going. Okay, I need to know my business plan is all or it's just moving along. But but don't live in the future. Live for right now.

[00:19:30]Cuz right now is where your strength is.

[00:19:33]You're weak in the future.

[00:19:36]So, those are the two things that I that I tend to apply when I need to really grind things out.

[00:19:41]And grind it and grind without stopping.

[00:19:44]Those are the two things I do.

[00:19:46]Yeah, those those are great pieces of advice. So, you So, you were just focused on I'm I want to set this I want to hit get this record. Like was that the motivating aspect for you? Was that the underlying mission?

[00:19:56]>> Yeah, that was it. You know, well, act- if behind it is I knew I would become a father and I've I've always been in the world of ex- exploration.

[00:20:05]I love it. I'm you know, I it started with marathoning and then 50 milers then 100 and then 300 and then 500 and then 1,000, right? And so, you just as you age, you you stay competitive the longer it goes cuz you get to work with this rather than the the bad knees.

[00:20:23]Um the the I knew that I was going to become a father.

[00:20:29]My wife and I were adopting a a young girl and my oldest oldest daughter.

[00:20:36]And that was going to come.

[00:20:37]And when she came home, there was no way I could leave for 3 months. That that That's not Okay, dad's going to go walk across Antarctica. Plus, the danger of it is just not it's different. You know, when you're single or a woman decides to marry you despite this stuff about you, but when you invite a kid into this that's already lost her parents, Mhm. You got to be a [clears throat] little bit more cautious, right?

[00:21:03]So, it was really because I needed to squeeze this thing in before I became a dad.

[00:21:08]>> [laughter] >> I needed to do it. You know, I'd been working on it for years. It needed to be done. I knew it could be done by an American, and I wanted that American to be me.

[00:21:20]See, just in a little bit of a different subject. So, you were doing travel channels like Dangerous Ground and Uncommon Ground. You were doing that um you know, that kind of program. How did you like tie that in with what you were building at the time and balance that out?

[00:21:33]>> Yeah. Well, so that TV thing kind of came around because they there was a lot of interest that they'd made a movie about the Antarctic expedition, and it won the LA Film Festival, and then and then Geo bought it, and blah blah. It kind of took on a life of its own. That was my all my wife's doing. I was working in coffee, and uh you know, trying to be the best dad I could.

[00:21:55]The um and then they the so the TV world came to me, and they wanted me to be the next Bear Grylls, right? And I had no interest in that. I'm like, "No. I'm not going to go do that um because I already have my passion, which is my business, and uh and I want to be home for my kids, you know, I most I can do is like a week at a time, like coffee, you know, coffee time.

[00:22:21]And the uh all I know is I was heading out to Haiti.

[00:22:27]It was right after the disaster. I was really concerned about our farmers over there. The you know, they they lost a million people on that thing, and it was just turned upside down, and we needed to go.

[00:22:40]And the my wife says, "Hey, would you mind bringing this guy whom I call Hollywood, you just bring this camera guy?" And I thought, "Actually, that's a really good idea because we could share footage in cuz I know there's going to be fundraising." And I I go, "No, no. Like, why why don't you source coffee, a new set of coffee, new set of mountains, and just bring bring guy along?" And I'm like, "Okay, let's do it. Let's do it." And I I just thought it would be great promotional material. But then the next thing I know, I've got a TV show, right?

[00:23:07]And that's kind of happened to me.

[00:23:10]And I liked it because people got to see people. Right? They got to see the people who actually make their stuff.

[00:23:19]Right? The farmers. They get to see that. They get to see a guy who makes it. They get to see inside a roastery.

[00:23:24]They get to see that a coffee is actually a fruit.

[00:23:27]Like we consume the lion's share on the planet Earth, but no one knows what it looks like in nature. It's just like And so I really enjoyed that. And so I did that for a couple seasons. You know, they they kind of wanted it to go on forever, but I'm I I had other ideas.

[00:23:42]I had the RTD to work on. So I I went and did that.

[00:23:45]But I I really liked it because I think in the craft space, a big part of what we do is education. And I I know that sounds condescending. It's not.

[00:23:54]It's, you know, helping inform people about the things they they consume.

[00:23:59]Um it's a big part of what we do. And that's a a great venue to do it.

[00:24:04]Mhm. Definitely. It was very It's a very interesting, you know, it was a very interesting show that you could kind of see the entire process. And it provides a different layer of experience, I think, with the product after that.

[00:24:14]Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's Hopefully, that's the thing. And And then people I mean, back in the day, like in '93 when I started La Colombe, it people if you asked them, like, "What does coffee taste like?" And they'd go, you know, "It tastes brown. You know, it just tastes like coffee."

[00:24:31]And you go, "You know that it tastes really different? Each one has a unique flavor." I mean, it's just I mean, go pick apples.

[00:24:40]You Take a Granny Smith and take a Fuji, right? And you go, "Okay, here are two apples. What do these taste like?

[00:24:44]Apples?" Okay, yeah, you can identify them as apples, but they taste way different. A coffee's the exact same way.

[00:24:52]Your cup could sing. You could find your flavor.

[00:24:56]Your favorite coffee that speaks to your taste profiles.

[00:25:00]And this was a new concept to a lot of people that were kind of drinking industrialized coffee.

[00:25:07]You know, and awakening up a couple of them and has has been one of the pleasures of my career.

[00:25:15]So Todd, you know, you had a lot of success. Why did you decide to leave the CEO role and start something, you know, entirely new?

[00:25:22]Yeah, the you know, I think that you know, once you've arrived to a certain level, the greatest gift that you can give yourself is to specialize in the areas that you love the most.

[00:25:37]You know, running a company of 1,500 people um one that's coast to coast um is yeah, it's it's C-suite land now, it's it's rare to get out.

[00:25:52]You're not even you know, you you you take some time to taste some of your coffees, but you're you're not in the craft anymore.

[00:25:59]And you're liking what you're doing, you're making the right choices, but then there's this piece of you that's that's screaming out for craft and innovation.

[00:26:10]Now, what I know is that once you get around a billion-dollar valuation boards and investors and whoever you you know, you're going to have a lot of these people around, all right? They kind of come with the territory.

[00:26:20]They don't like innovation.

[00:26:23]Innovation costs money.

[00:26:25]And it takes and it requires risk.

[00:26:28]And once you retain a certain level, they want that to go away, which is like hmm okay, but if as a craft person well, just to say I've I've done it.

[00:26:41]I've made the best pie and I'll never make a better pie. No, that's not [ __ ] true. Nothing's ever finished.

[00:26:46]Coffee's not done. Cold brew is not done. It is not done.

[00:26:50]It's not doing half as good as it could be. Because it's not right yet. But no one's interested in spending the several million it might take and all that time to get it right. Right? The next level of coffee and milk two in the RTD form, it's not right.

[00:27:06]Mhm.

[00:27:07]>> [clears throat] >> We destroy it trying to make it self shelf stable. How can you do that better? How can we do that better? How can we get that clean crisp beautiful like sweet flavor of milk with that chocolaty tone of coffee without it being you know, pasteurized to death. How do we get there?

[00:27:27]I think it's possible. And the person who, you know, unlocks that door will be the winner.

[00:27:34]And when I say winner, I mean winner.

[00:27:38]Huh.

[00:27:40]So So there's still a lot more to go.

[00:27:42]>> So you got to go as you're the mad scientist, right? So >> [laughter] >> I mean I Here's the thing. So JP and I started a company because we could have a place that we could be ourselves, right? And it's also a thing is like I put my shoes on the table. I do that.

[00:27:56]Yeah. I put my shoes up on the coffee table.

[00:27:59]In some environments that's just not You know, and you sometimes you can create an an environment that doesn't allow you to be you anymore. And then once you hit that point, you have to look yourself in the eyes and say, "Okay, maybe I should create another one."

[00:28:15]And that's really where I was at and where I am at. And I And I love I could do it. I have a skeleton crew and it's like me. Pizza's delivered at all times of the night and it's just like we're we're back back in the thick of it.

[00:28:28]Inventing new things, laying new patents. We're just getting around problems that are you know, that a lot of people might just stop and give up on. The And that is where my life wants to be. You know? I think you as a founder you're you're creating not a machine, you're creating a you're creating a world and that world should accommodate you.

[00:28:52]And if it doesn't, then you should create another one.

[00:28:55]Mhm. That makes sense. It's an interesting way to look at it, too, cuz you got to enjoy what you do. And if you're not in the right place doing that, then why keep doing it?

[00:29:01]>> Yeah, that's it.

[00:29:03]You know, and they they do have CEOs for all these different levels, you know, like when you talk to the people that reside in these C-suites, they go, "Well, he's good to a billion. That guy's good for 5 billion." You know, you know, entrepreneurs listen, I never took any courses in being a CEO.

[00:29:19]Yeah, no. Mhm. I mean, I >> [clears throat] >> learned on the job, you know, one person at a time.

[00:29:25]So, perhaps there's someone way more qualified than I am to to running La Colombe. We haven't seen it yet, but you know, if they do come, they'd be great.

[00:29:34]They but they're employees, you know, they they occupy a space that's already been made, and they try to make it better.

[00:29:40]Whereas, you know, founders, we create the spaces.

[00:29:45]And we create them so we can they can accommodate who we are.

[00:29:49]And they have traits that we trade. We also look at them like people.

[00:29:54]You know, for me, every company I've ever made, and this is La Colombe wasn't my only one, they've always had an identity. I don't I've always I'm always shy of saying brand. I say personality, right? Because that's what they are. They're a A good company is a living, breathing entity.

[00:30:10]It's not a machine.

[00:30:13]You know, if you start treating it like a machine, then the product usually starts falling off, the service starts falling off, the culture starts to kind of weaken.

[00:30:24]And once the culture weakens, the brand personality weakens. It's just because we're throttling this thing just for profit, right? It's a motor. It's a motor that makes money.

[00:30:34]Well, actually, I don't think it is. I think it's actually an entity, a combination of human beings.

[00:30:41]And you could actually take you know, let's say the the regression of all of the personalities within that company and it would pretty much match the brand.

[00:30:51]And then obviously it's a place for people to find safe harbor.

[00:30:54]People like me, misfits like me.

[00:30:57]Right? Crazy lunatic freak people who need to invent new stuff. Right?

[00:31:02]>> [laughter] >> And so that's kind of how I see the two different ones.

[00:31:06]Mhm.

[00:31:07]But where do you see Lofty Water going now? Like where do you where do you want to take it? What are your goals? Well, I'm pivoting I it's I've pivoted so much on this one I I'm dizzying myself.

[00:31:16]The I should say I'm doing a lot of nano pivots, right? Which is I I it's more like adjustments.

[00:31:22]Um first I want really wanted to see um you know, how people would respond to the shockingly different bubble.

[00:31:32]And you know, get their head around the idea that it tastes like it has 30 g of sugar in it but has nothing. Right? So there's that first piece.

[00:31:41]And so it's just water. Now the technology I can do any fluid with it, remember? I can do juices, coffees, teas, I can do all different I can do sodas.

[00:31:52]And so now it's morphing that where we have this little very humble water line and creating two more SKUs that are really dynamic.

[00:32:04]That deliver value added that no one no one else can do.

[00:32:09]Now I love love right now.

[00:32:12]The kind of modern soda that we can create with it by using hydrogen.

[00:32:19]And what hydrogen does to the body is stunning. It's It's like Trust me, I'm 61 and I feel great. Like I've been consuming this stuff on a the Cecil Hotel.

[00:32:30]And um and I love the sport aspect of it, too. So creating a you know, a semi-saturated near like like you can think of it like micro bubbles. So, you can drink it like a sport drink, but it still has texture to it.

[00:32:45]Um, creating a sport version of it. And I think they have purchase.

[00:32:51]It feels good. For all aluminum, we're able to redesign a line, finally figure out how to god damn use aluminum with pressure behind it.

[00:33:01]And I know I see it kind of taking its its place there. It is I don't think it's one of those explode out of the shell, you know, like go nuclear day one.

[00:33:11]But it's definitely a horse I can ride for a while and one that I can grind at.

[00:33:15]And that's what I'm interested in, you know, grinding is like chopping down a really damn big tree, right?

[00:33:21]And I love chopping down. I love swinging an axe and so we're just at that point now where you can start swinging that axe.

[00:33:30]Definitely exciting. I think that it's pretty cool that you're embarking on something, you know, this new and this different already built something great and now you want to just start ground zero again and have that fulfilling journey.

[00:33:41]Yeah, I think I think if you're made this way, you're just made this way. You know?

[00:33:46]The it it's it's a lot easier now in in that the you know, I remember back when I first started in '93, I mean I couldn't get an appointment with anybody. I mean I couldn't the banks were like get out, right? Like everybody.

[00:34:03]The so the second time around it is a little bit easier because I know the territory is I know the people, I know the distribution channels and so there's that. So, it allows me to really really focus on the area that is most important to my liking is the product.

[00:34:20]And and I like to the idea that I can improve people's health.

[00:34:24]And we continue to do what we always have done and that is hey man, business is power. So, use that power for good when you can and you should, like on a continual basis.

[00:34:35]So, improving neighborhoods, improving the lives of people around us, particularly children. It's pretty simple.

[00:34:42]Todd, that was, you know, all the questions that I had. I appreciate you taking the time to do this. I think that your journey's been pretty incredible, especially the willing the level of risk you've been willing to take. You know, some people talk about risk, you've really done them. Whether it's being article walk, it's, you know, going out there and really showcasing and trying something entirely different in the coffee space that wasn't done before and being willing to stick with it. I mean, that's really what it takes, and you're an embodiment of, you know, that persistence. And I'm excited to see what you'll do here now with this new type of bubble. It seems exciting, and I look forward to where that goes. All right.

[00:35:12]Well, thank you, man. Thank you. I'll send you a case.