Russell Brand Challenges Dawkins (and Makes Bad Arguments for God)

Añadido: 2026-05-22

[00:00:00]Here's Russell Brand trying to find an atheist more absurd than he is.

[00:00:04]>> Watch as massively popular podcast host, addict turned Christian, and Hollywood blacklist e Russell Brand absolutely make a fool out of the infamously militant atheist celebrity Richard Dawkins. Will this be even more embarrassing than the time Claude tricked Dawkins into thinking it was conscious and then he transed Claude into Claudia for some reason? That was an ironic thing for someone like Dawkins to do. author of the book The God Delusion, which has turned millions away from faith, especially in the late 2010s.

[00:00:32]>> I doubt it was millions. And everyone except Christians, it seems, had moved on from Dawkins before the late 2010s.

[00:00:38]Although Christians still talk about Dawkins like he's the pope of atheism.

[00:00:41]This all happened live on Russell's podcast in front of millions of his viewers online. It's truly both incredible and humbling to witness Russell go from saying stuff like this.

[00:00:53]The Bible wasn't literally written by a cosmic entity. It was written by the Holy Spirit. It was written by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit ain't got a pen.

[00:01:02]It was WRITTEN BY HUMAN BEINGS. I'M >> sorry though.

[00:01:05]>> Human beings to shocking stuff like this. I call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, creator of heaven and earth.

[00:01:12]>> Gee, I wonder what happened.

[00:01:15]>> Lord, forgive me making this prayer in public. Yeah, I'm sure you were really reluctant to do that given how humble you are about your faith and all.

[00:01:23]>> There are plenty of things I don't understand. I feel I'm on the edge of understanding things. Yes, I feel that.

[00:01:28]>> We've dealt once with atoms and then electrons and then bosen's quarks and whatever like that. It appears that we can never reliably say ah this is the genesis.

[00:01:43]>> You keep using the word numinous and I'm curious what you mean by it.

[00:01:48]Well, I like CS Lewis's description of it. He goes, he goes, "If I told you that there was a tiger in the next room, you would feel you would feel afraid.

[00:02:00]And if I told you there was a ghost in the next room and you believed it, you would also feel afraid, but not afraid in the same way that you would be afraid of a tiger with, "Oh no, what's this ghost going to do? No one cares what a ghost is going to do." like in Scooby-Doo, but you are aware that your understanding of reality is glitching and twitching and being challenged. If I believed in ghosts and someone told me that there was a ghost in the next room, I'd just want to see it. I've never understood why people are afraid of ghosts. They're just intangible dead people, whatever that means. And if you believed in ghosts and saw one, why would your understanding of reality be challenged? Wouldn't it be vindicated instead? If you believed in ghosts and you saw one, why would you be afraid instead of thinking, I knew it, I was right.

[00:02:46]>> He then said, imagine if I were to say, there is a mighty spirit in the room next to you, you might feel that you would might feel yourself on the edge of something. And as Shakespeare said, and here my genius is rebuked. I know what a tiger is. I have no idea what a great spirit is. And so I would not be impressed if you said there was a great spirit in the room next door. The biggest reason I don't believe in ghosts is because I don't understand what a disembodied spirit is even supposed to be, or an embodied spirit for that matter. They're described as though they are minds which exist independent of bodies. But that seems like a contradiction to me because minds are activities carried out by brains. What's carrying out the mind if there's no brain involved? If we allow science to encroach continually upon that territory, what will happen is that this material that that materialism is a word that's come up several times the materialism will lead that does lead to because it has led to and this is where we are a kind of what I want to say a grimly metasticized capitalism where all that matters is that which can be measured. How is that capitalism? If materialism is just a metastasized capitalism, why did Markx advocate for dialectical materialism? If you're going to conflate metaphysical materialism with socioeconomic materialism, this is a reasonable question. Also, what kind of argument is this? You don't like the idea that all that exists is that which can be measured, therefore the idea is false. How does that follow? And what would even be the problem if all that matters is what can be measured? Why would things being thoroughly comprehensible be bad?

[00:04:16]>> And in science, all that matters is that which can be measured. But in the establishment of a society, in the establishment of a culture, in the establishment of a family, if all that matters is that which can be measured, you will get individualistic, materialistic, ultimately nihilistic, pious, moralizing, but oddly unforgiving. How does that follow? I'm especially baffled by the expectation that such a culture would be moralizing because why would it be any more moralizing than religious culture? If it is moralizing, at least its morals will be based on things that are actually consequential.

[00:04:50]>> Cultures with no real values. We are seeing it.

[00:04:53]>> Science is bigger than that, more important than that.

[00:04:57]>> And um I think it's it's um disingenuous to suggest that the only the only escape from materialism in the demeaning sense, in the economic sense, is religion. I think religion is is um relatively um unequipped, too small to deal with with these big pro big problems that we're that we we're dealing with. Let's not um beat about the bush here. Secularism is predicated on the idea that the abiding and dominant idea now is that the state is the um the ultimate authority.

[00:05:42]>> No, it isn't. Secularism is just the rejection of theocracy. Anarchism is entirely compatible with secularism. And under anarchism, there is no ultimate authority.

[00:05:51]>> Nothing to do with it. What What's got to do with the state?

[00:05:53]>> Would you what? What got to do with the state? Why would you equate materialism with the state having having authority?

[00:05:59]>> My point is this secular that materialism can lead to secularism that all that matters is that's what we can measure and what's rational. Let's get this hocus pocus crap out of the way and build >> and get and build a lovely state. Right now, let's get on with putting poor people in jail.

[00:06:16]>> Is putting poor people in jail an official secularist position? The only people I see advocating that are folks claiming to be Christians.

[00:06:24]No, it is Richard. That's what's happening.

[00:06:26]>> Well, it it's if it may be happening, but it's nothing to do with it. I mean, it's nothing to do with secularism.

[00:06:35]>> I'm a materialist because I think science will or can explain everything and if it can't, nothing else can. I said that before. Okay. What would a non-physicalist explanation even be?

[00:06:46]What even is a non-physical thing? If something isn't physical, what is it?

[00:06:50]Burch and Russell defined physical as that which is dealt with by physics. If a phenomenon can't be dealt with by physics or be reduced to phenomena which can be dealt with by physics, I don't understand what it would mean to deal with it at all.

[00:07:01]>> We can certainly disagree on that of I mean of course no we can I'm not arguing with you but you're pretty evangelical and zealous and pretty devout. I'm saying what I'm saying is is that perhaps a way of ch like I feel that that do you feel that society's in trouble?

[00:07:22]>> Maybe I do.

[00:07:23]>> Yeah.

[00:07:24]>> Yes. Yes. So >> what do you think the answer is?

[00:07:27]>> Well, not religion.

[00:07:29]>> Well, I do.

[00:07:31]>> Why though? In the US, the most religious state is Mississippi. The state with the highest murder rate is also Mississippi. The second least religious state is New Hampshire after Vermont. New Hampshire has the lowest murder rate of any state. I'm not saying that religion causes high murder rates, but these data show that religiosity in a population certainly doesn't lower them. New Hampshire also has the lowest teen pregnancy rate. Mississippi has the highest teen pregnancy rate. If religion doesn't solve or even ameliorate those societal problems, what problems does it solve?

[00:07:59]>> What happened? What changed seven months ago that made you say, "I'm going to take it to another level and I'm going to get christened and I'm going to be outspoken to this level about it." Well, I was all new age, weren't I? The problem with the new age of choosing your own religion and choosing your own god is guess who's in the middle of that? You. So, did Russell not choose to be Christian? Did he not choose Jesus?

[00:08:20]Did God not give people free will so that it can be up to them whether they are Christian or not and whether they accept Jesus or not? Or is Russell a Calvinist? What I discovered when things got really heavy and on top for me is Christ cracked through hard hard and everything else fell away. And I went from I think I should be Jesus. I would like to be the incarnation of God on earth made flesh. Outrageous and ridiculous as that sounds, why not? It's good to have an ambition. Like I recognized Jesus Christ, it's real. like like it went from like that's a good story that you know sort of lays things out you know and he wasn't wasn't he a good teacher and what a great mystic and maybe he did go and spend time in India and learn or maybe he went to Britain and learned from the druids all of these sort of like um ancillary accessories around Christianity fascinated me why would any of that make Christianity more convincing though it's not even a common Christian view that Jesus went to India and Britain but even if he did why would that make it any more likely that he is God incarnate or that he came back from the dead. But when the pain came hard hard when I experienced like the sort of you know unlucky as you will need water you're right when I experienced a lot of deaths thankfully I'm always getting killed by life and when the last round of deaths came personal deaths thankfully um what was there was Jesus Christ Jesus Christ was there uh and I mean in terms of scriptural literal Jesus like hold on a minute it's actually true is actually true. What does any of that mean? What are these deaths that Russell experienced? Was getting cancelled a death? And how did this convince him that Christianity is true?

[00:10:06]>> We let me some of them things reading the book of Acts and thinking what why are these people doing this? Why were they doing that? Why in this sort of like what's going on 50 days after he was resurrected that's making people do all this stuff? What's happening in the years following that event where all these PEOPLE ARE LIKE WHOA, IT'S REAL.

[00:10:25]It's real. And then all the impact of Christianity on the on the world, the academics, the saints, the institutions that it's created. Let's face it, they're not perfect. There's been a lot of human tainting of those institutions.

[00:10:38]But at the very center, the figure of Jesus Christ who died for our sins and rose that me we may know eternal life.

[00:10:45]It punctured and pierced me a level of my being that I didn't know was there.

[00:10:51]All of this sounds like feels over reals to me because in my country they try and make Jesus I'm not saying that because I've met some really brilliant clerics and people that are flatout vicers and stuff that have like blown my mind with their understanding of mysticism ontology and epistemology but like it's almost like the culture so I'm not blaming any particular institution the culture tries to banalyze Christ the same way it banalizes everything the same way as it deseres nature. nature's there. Even if you're the world's most enthusiastic ecologist, what's the basis of ecology and and and the preservation of our environment? Oh, we need that.

[00:11:28]That's what we live in. We use it. We need that. We need those trees cuz they're converted like not it is sacred.

[00:11:35]It is blessed. What kind of argument is this? How does understanding the practical implications of things banalize them? If anything, it emphasizes how consequential they are.

[00:11:43]And even if it does banalize things, how does that make the supernatural make any more sense?

[00:11:48]>> It is our duty as the stewards of the earth to take care of it. And we ain't important other than how we in so much as how we pertain to him. Our we are made in his likeness. We are here to do his work.

[00:12:03]>> Why is an all powerful being getting people to do his work for him. What's the point of that?

[00:12:08]>> We're not here for ourselves. And like I'm saying that as if I understand it and as if I know it and as if I live like it. I find it really hard to sage.

[00:12:15]I find it hard to be holy. But to be holy is all there is. To be holy is all there is. And I say that after a lot of attempts at finding other avenues like what happens if I become famous? What happens if I have loads of sex? What happens if I take loads of drugs? Why I've tried it? And I'm sure there are things I haven't tried and that I'm frankly not going to try because now I know Jesus Christ is the answer.

[00:12:39]>> Why though? Everything that seems to have convinced Russell that Christianity is true is feelings and aesthetic preferences. That's not something I could ever find convincing.

[00:12:47]>> What about like Jesus? Like who introduced you to Jesus?

[00:12:51]>> In terms of the coming to Jesus more latally of like recognizing, oh no, you are you're a Christian. You're going to follow Jesus Christ. That happened because simultaneously I mean it's impossible to divorce it from these events. Simultaneously in my country I after entering into it seemed to me at least a new space talking online about a lot of controversial subjects whether that's the origins of war or the nature of the pandemic and the kind of claims that were being made during the pandemic and who benefited as a result of those claims whether it was sort of global institutions pharmaceutical corporate commercial institutions or regulatory state institutions that suddenly were granted the ability to have this almost unfeasible and ridiculous power.

[00:13:40]>> What does any of this have to do with Jesus? You don't like what the government is doing, therefore Christianity is true. Is that what you're arguing? How does that follow?

[00:13:48]>> I talked about that stuff a lot. I was starting to sort of move in a kind of different direction. I didn't sort of define myself as a kind of a populist or as they say in this culture kind of a red pill person. I.e. I believe in like the folks that flow forth from the belly of Joe Rogan of all, you know, much as I love Joe Rogan. Did Joe Rogan convince you that Jesus rose from the dead? Um, no. I felt like there's something there kind of something else in here and and I've come to this as a drug addict in recovery. So when I get like when and I'd also become disillusioned with fame a lot of times, you know, you get a lot of chances to become disillusioned with it. It's a pretty poulry offering really. I think that when I see say Kanye West turn up with his nude and exemplary partner at the Grammys, I think what is this citadel? What is this carnival that in which you long took part? What are its values? What does it mean? What's it trying to tell us by its fruits? Shall we know it? So Kanye's girlfriend being naked made you think that the resurrection really happened?

[00:14:58]If not, what does any of this have to do with why you believe in Christianity?

[00:15:02]Also, of all of the things Kanye has done recently, it was his girlfriend's outfit that made you question his ethics.

[00:15:08]>> I've grown tired of that some time ago.

[00:15:12]I was living a pretty like I'm married.

[00:15:15]I have three children and I'm kind of understanding domesticity without really if I can say too much grounding in that area or too much appreciation experientially of what functional domesticity might be like and trying to work out where I'm going to go in life and then suddenly I'm delued first with wave after wave of attack of you're a conspiracy theorist then very sort of what seemed to me very particular bespoke and constructed attacks based on historic sexual behavior.

[00:15:46]>> I've heard people speculate that the government orchestrated the allegations against him because of what he has said about CO. But the investigation into his shenanigans began in 2019 before he ever said anything about CO and even before CO was discovered. But even if there was a conspiracy against him, what does that have to do with Jesus? In the midst of the a personal apocalypse and the white noise chaos that followed, there he is on the cross and above it, intimate and accessible, all powerful, totally broken and vulnerable. Somehow all of this is enough for me to say, "Ah, it's over. It's over. It is done. It is finished." and from then on in a gentle cultivation and edification and you know reading the Bible.

[00:16:37]>> What does any of that mean? It seems like maybe he's saying that Christianity was a comfort to him while all of this was happening. But I don't understand how it follows from this that Christianity is therefore true.

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