What fuel economy really means | ThisConnect S03E16

Hinzugefügt: 2026-05-25

[00:00:00]Hello and welcome to disconnect.

[00:00:02]What are we talking about today?

[00:00:05]Fuel economy. Yes, sir. Why?

[00:00:19]I have to tell you this that this is the second time we're recording this. As soon as we discussed this the last time the lights went and it was like we both like sign from heaven that what the hell are you talking about? Yeah, the universe is economy is not worth discussing.

[00:00:33]>> [laughter] >> No, actually I am super super keen to talk about this. I'm super excited about it as well.

[00:00:40]Because here I don't get it. Why is it that is used as a गाली effectively? Like you know, it's almost like considered as an insult when you talk about a car that's fuel efficient in the car world. In the bike world I get that the way you approach fuel efficiency is slightly Yeah, the motorcycle riders are far more mature than car drivers for sure.

[00:01:03]That's a more one track solution when you talk about bikers as such. It's not one track anymore. What has happened is We went through this phase where everybody was like 94 kmpl. Then manufacturers said no, I have 95. Then the other guy said I have 96. Then the other guy said I have 97.

[00:01:21]It came to the point where everybody was like oh okay, so this whole thing is pointless now.

[00:01:26]So to simplify I think more than anything else they said what is the expected economy for this class? Let's call it a 100 cc bike. They said real world may 70 70 mile to enough. Correct.

[00:01:37]So anything that cross 70 Okay, that's fine. It's in the consideration set. It's not a crisis anymore.

[00:01:43]So today I don't think manufacturers claim that last half a kilometer per liter extra anymore because there's just no point. Nobody's listening to that because they made so much noise.

[00:01:52]So today the expectation is if I buy a Splendor then in the real world I should get 70.

[00:01:57]Splendor does 72 or 78 is not really important anymore.

[00:02:02]I'm very far removed from the Splendor buyer today. Like at one time, I could have maybe seen a slice of that world and understood what that mindset is and whether 2 3 kmpl makes a difference or not. Today, I can't I can honestly say there's no way for me to relate with that mindset at all. So, I don't know if a 2 3 kmpl difference will make a difference to >> doesn't. I'm saying it doesn't.

[00:02:22]>> interesting what you've said that the fuel efficiency figures are now rounded off in that segment. By the people. By the people. Oh, okay.

[00:02:30]>> What the manufacturer is basically saying is so let's say you're being presented a commuter like the Glamour X.

[00:02:34]What's the fuel economy? 66 or whatever.

[00:02:37]66. Okay. Then you try to remember what did the other 125 say? Oh, yeah. 65 66 67. They're all within that 1 2 3 4 kmpl, right?

[00:02:46]But it's not a long discussion.

[00:02:48]Which it used to be, right? Oh, we are giving 13% more fuel economy than our rivals which makes us a bit It's not the discussion anymore. We moved on to We have cruise control, we have TFT screen, and all of this. So, fuel economy arrives as a hygiene point. So, it's here now with us. Correct. And once they say we have, then you move on from there with your life.

[00:03:06]Yeah, sure. This is true for scooters also. Everybody says that oh, 50. Mhm.

[00:03:11]Does everybody get to 50? Yeah, sort of more or less, right? Everybody is at 45 48 km per liter. No matter what size of scooter you're buying today, you're more or less getting this kind of economy.

[00:03:19]So, there's nothing to discuss anymore.

[00:03:21]Mhm. So, that's why I'm saying the two-wheeler market seems to have played this card so hard for a while that today the card has no validity left. Okay.

[00:03:28]>> So, you're asking only one question. How much does it return?

[00:03:31]13. Does everything in the segment return 13? Yeah, roughly yeah. Okay, sorted. So, this is not a consideration anymore. I don't have to think about this any further. So, 100 125 Even the larger bikes.

[00:03:42]Like you look at our view stories. How much detail do we go into economy? Not a lot. And where is the feedback that says hey, you should be doing more detail on the economy? That segment I'm not surprised about. But I know I'm saying from the bottom to the top. Mhm. So, I'm giving ranges. I'm saying you ride aggressively, this bike will return 25.

[00:03:57]You ride peacefully, this bike has the capacity to do 35. The most efficient bike in that class, when you ride it like that, okay, plus two.

[00:04:04]The most aggressive bike in that, you ride really aggressively, okay, minus two. There's no discussion in the comments saying, "Wow, this is great economy, not good economy. Oh, this is not a right number. I got a It's not there." Correct.

[00:04:15]Correct. Scooters? No. Commuters, 125s?

[00:04:18]No. Larger scooters? No.

[00:04:21]400s? No.

[00:04:23]Yeah.

[00:04:24]I mean, I'm not surprised about that, again. And I do think that it's because as buyers, we have evolved, which is why the 100 to 125, whatever you want to say, under that, I'll I'm saying I have no idea of the sensitivity in that space anymore. But, above that, of course, as an idea, it sits there. But, is it the deciding factor by I mean, hell no. No. It It can be a canceling factor, not a decision factor. It can be How bad can it get, also, is the question. It's the thing.

[00:04:50]No, so I'm saying, if you were to make a product that had really bad fuel economy, it can lead you to say, "No, I don't want that." Correct. But, is there a gain by a manufacturer saying, "Okay, the average median fuel economy in this class seems to be 32.

[00:05:03]I can do 38." Will that immediately make a lot of people go there and try to buy this thing?

[00:05:09]Correct. Not really. Okay. So, talking about the two-wheelers, I I mean, I wasn't expecting for the Let's say, the more lifestyle-oriented bikes, which are more indulgences. They may be people using them every day to travel and commute and all of that, but they're primarily identity-focused purchases, right?

[00:05:26]I didn't think that it was going to be a deal-breaker there, especially if the lower end is something which is now people have come to accept as, "Okay, you'll be somewhere in the mid-20s, or let's say, late 20s." That kind of a thing. You've kind of hit that ballpark of sorts for the more performance-oriented machines. And going too high is not going to make them extra attractive to somebody to buy, right? But the thing that I've noticed, especially especially me, with cars is that fuel efficiency is actually being treated as a like a insult. Like, "Oh, this is all about fuel efficiency."

[00:06:03]And that the concept of fuel efficiency seems like what is the point of it? And I get that you will look at it in this in the here and now and say, "If a car is giving you 20 kmpl, 21 kmpl, whatever, it's okay. But the idea of better fuel efficiency is something that we should persevere towards and we should be chasing as well."

[00:06:24]Because if you think about it, if you can improve efficiency dramatically you can also change what you do with the vehicles. How?

[00:06:34]Think about it. If I don't have to worry about uh energy right? Let's say in 1 L of petrol I can travel 300 km. Mhm.

[00:06:47]Right? So, suddenly I can say my engine can perform differently.

[00:06:51]If I have to not worry about energy Mhm.

[00:06:55]right? Then suddenly I can dial other things up.

[00:06:59]Today what is a big problem with As a trade-off, yeah.

[00:07:02]Our big problem is let's say tomorrow you had we are all on EVs. Mhm. And 1 kW of energy could drive you 1,000 km. Mhm.

[00:07:11]Okay, you automatically think, okay, the shape of cars could change, the weight of cars could change how they would drive. Yeah, sure. No, you may not have cars anymore. Exactly.

[00:07:19]You'd end up probably be flying around or something like that. Because suddenly now lots of other >> bunch of other transportation systems become possible at that energy level where a vehicle may not be required anymore. Exactly. Exactly. So, getting systems that are more efficient should not be looked down upon. And this is the thing that I find funny. But who's looking down upon this?

[00:07:38]>> is a constant conversation, especially cars in generally in the world of cars.

[00:07:43]>> But they're not very mature people. I said right at the start. That is also a good point. And I And in this, again, flashbacking to when I was younger, you'd only be thinking about performance, and performance being this one absolute defining the entire experience.

[00:07:57]>> Yeah, people who chase performance are immature. Without looking at the entire system. And that is what I think the reason I wanted to talk about this was that while you may be an enthusiast, and while you are chasing performance as a youngster, it's the entire system together that comes together to create a strong package. And for that, efficiency. Imagine if you think Let's flip it the other way around. If you had a great vehicle great vehicle. Imagine all the vehicles in the world. They were great to drive, fantastic, fun, everything practical, but they could only do 1 km per liter. All of them. Mhm. Useless, no? Not really.

[00:08:33]Achcha? Yeah. Okay. If the world equalizes to a point where 1 km per liter is your normal, you would accept it as normal. There'd be a transition phase where you'd hate it because you went from 20 km per liter.

[00:08:44]>> enough fuel? The vehicle becomes useless.

[00:08:46]>> No, they will have larger and larger fuel tanks, and you'll consider that normal. See, think about it.

[00:08:50]>> work. I'll See, think about I'll give you an >> not work because you will have to carry a tanker behind you. It doesn't matter.

[00:08:55]I'll I'll tell you I'll give you an example.

[00:08:57]>> Okay. We were filling the fuel tank on a GLS Mhm. 300 uh the the big one.

[00:09:05]And at 90 And we were nearly running it dry. We were leaving uh Coimbatore, and we were going to Chennai, and we had driven to Ooty for a story and back. Mhm. When the guy hit 93 L, he started to panic thinking the fuel tank is leaking. Mhm. So, we went out to the petrol pump. We had a sandwich. We came back, and there's people under the car. Mhm. And the Mercedes-Benz driver was there, Anthony, I think. Mhm. So, we are like, "What are you guys doing under the car?"

[00:09:30]He says, "Your fuel tank is leaking."

[00:09:32]"Why?" He says, "Look, we got 93 L. What What broke That's a 120 L tank. What we broke there was an expectation. The expectation was when I hit 50, 55, 60 liters, a car like this should be full.

[00:09:43]We're 30 liters over, there's something definitely wrong with the car. And then we had to tell them it's a 120-liter tank. We've been in reserve for a long time, so this car has basically no fuel.

[00:09:51]You are going to get to 110 liters on this. This is completely normal. After that, everything went swimmingly. I'm saying when you equalize the world and you say your normal is 1 km per liter, then a manufacturer will say trying to balance the tank size and the range size. We used to be able to give you 300 on a tank of 500 on a tank or 700 tank. Can only give you 50.

[00:10:13]>> [snorts] >> Which doesn't mean a tanker, which means the process of I have to go to a petrol pump every hour becomes a new normal for you because you're saying every vehicle is on that scale. Okay, chill. Let's go with that train of thought.

[00:10:23]>> Think about it like this.

[00:10:25]We are saying Apple devices last a day on a charge. Android devices last 4 days on a charge. You're saying the same thing. You're saying what if all phones became 4 hours a turn on a charge? You'd just charge them all the time.

[00:10:37]Unless the utility of the phone itself was called into question.

[00:10:41]But as soon as you say phones are important and all phones will only last 4 hours, it doesn't matter anymore.

[00:10:46]That's your new normal. Sounds painful, though. It might be in the transition, but you think about it like this. You went through the transition.

[00:10:53]Sirhan gets his first phone when all phones last 4 hours. He just doesn't know that there was another version of this. For him, the world is 4-hour phones. It's It's how it works. Maybe their generation will say I need to have four phones so that I don't have to charge throughout the day.

[00:11:07]Actually, think about it. When we started with Nokias, they used to last four four days, man. You never thought about charging the phone for days.

[00:11:14]>> No. And where now it is the norm that one day one day you last a day is like It's happening today. People who use Garmin Fenix type of smartwatches, they say, "What do you mean you charge your watch every day? I charge it only once a month."

[00:11:26]Okay, I charge my watch every day, which is an Apple Watch, but this is my normal. Do I notice the fact that every night I throw it onto the wireless charger and then every morning I put it on a whatever. I don't notice it anymore. It's my new normal.

[00:11:37]Mhm. Will there be a convenience therefore to go to a Garmin? Maybe. Mhm.

[00:11:41]But to the Garmin guy, this is a huge headache. Mhm. I put this thing on and I take it off on the first of the next month.

[00:11:47]>> Mhm.

[00:11:48]So for the guy who's coming from the more convenient place going to the less convenient place may have a transition.

[00:11:52]I'm already in a different my life.

[00:11:55]Right. And from that perspective, if a car were to do exceptionally great fuel economy, it would see a benefit. If all cars were equally great efficient or equally terrible efficient, there's no advantage. It's normal. Mhm.

[00:12:09]What has happened to two-wheelers is not that we have lost our expectation of economy. It has been played so hard that card that it has become normal.

[00:12:17]Somebody else was talking about something else and he was saying there was a phase in the 2000s, '90s where the word extreme was everywhere. Everything was extreme. Extreme sports, extreme ex Today that word extreme has fallen out of favor. We overused it. Mhm.

[00:12:30]>> You know the next word that you're going to end up overusing?

[00:12:33]Adventure.

[00:12:36]So I'm not sure where you're going with this, but my point is >> [snorts] >> if you raise efficiency in a car, I don't actually see a fundamental change in the way we use them or the advantages we get from them outside of your wallet. Mhm.

[00:12:51]And if you're heading in that direction, the most energy-efficient form of propulsion today is electricity. We don't know any better. So then fossil fuels just cannot exist.

[00:13:01]Even synthetic fossil fuels, right?

[00:13:03]You're They they have lower environmental impact, etc. You're manufacturing them.

[00:13:07]But if your efficiency of that engine process itself is 40%, you can't compete with electricity. End of story. Yeah.

[00:13:13]So I mean, the point is this, that just having a more efficient vehicle doesn't automatically mean it's an inferior vehicle. That is the thing. A lot of people are thinking that an efficient an efficiency advantage means that the vehicle is basically inferior in some ways.

[00:13:29]>> Can I Can I break something slightly um offensive to these people?

[00:13:34]The people who think efficiency is inferior?

[00:13:37]You're the minority.

[00:13:39]And by miles and miles and miles.

[00:13:40]Otherwise, we would have sportier cars on sale in India typically. We don't.

[00:13:45]Mhm. And that means the larger majority gets the importance of efficiency. They may not talk about it. They may not discuss it beyond a certain point. We might have normalized expectations saying, "Hey, that kind of car should give 11 and 11's great."

[00:13:56]But you're in the minority.

[00:13:59]I think from a system standpoint, the importance of using everything efficiently, and that's what it ends up coming down to fuel efficiency. A system being efficient is important because uh you know that Honda ad when they used to uh they were part of BR Honda, they used to have this beautiful ad. Mhm. Uh every drop counts. And it was literally a video of a drop falling into a cylinder and it igniting. Mhm. And uh that was when they used to have that tagline of uh dreams. Okay. Uh no no no no really beautiful ad. And them saying that, you know, how every drop has to count. And this is you're talking about a company that at that time is part of Formula 1, and this is all the communication around that.

[00:14:41]And they talk about efficiency. Why is that important, right? Because you can extract the most out of everything. And which is another thing that is tied into this conversation is the concept of light vehicles. Light weighting is also seen as a negative. Mhm. And this is positively stupid to just associate lightness and efficiency with inferior or boring vehicles. This is quite the opposite of what we would be building if I were to build a vehicle today. This is where you'd start. How would you make it the most efficient that you can? How can you make it the lightest that you can?

[00:15:19]And then work the other things around it irrespective of what type of vehicle it is.

[00:15:23]>> And this thought process and coming to the more human side of it, a lot of these things, as we've discussed on other fronts as well, are ideas that have been sold to us.

[00:15:35]Come on, that's powerful. Who cares about fuel efficiency, man? Who thinks about fuel efficiency? If it's powerful, that's all that matter.

[00:15:42]No, it matters. Even somebody designing the most powerful car in the world, most powerful bike in the world, is thinking about efficiency because that thing has to be usable. We're discussing about a theoretical 50 km range, and sure, you would learn to live with that if you had to, but that's not okay today. No, and no, in fact, you could go down that rabbit hole further. If he had to build a car that was 50 km range on a tank full, he would have to make that car so so spectacular that you would say, "Yeah, I see the trade-off, but I'm willing to take it on." Yeah. And Veyron is a brilliant example, right? Because the top speed figure, what was the I don't know what the numbers you generally remember the numbers. 407 or some such.

[00:16:21]And while doing that, it would drain its tank in how much time? Yeah, it was some seconds. It was Yeah. You're like 6 minutes or something like that, right?

[00:16:29]I mean, that number in relation that fuel efficiency was made okay only in relation to the performance that it managed to deliver. It used to eat up the tires and the wheels in all that much time, which means it was literally unusable at that speed in a regular scenario. Yeah.

[00:16:46]Which is okay because there was a no regular scenario where you could use that. Ooh, anyway, so that was fine.

[00:16:51]Yeah. But it's it's it's it's the same thing.

[00:16:54]If you buy a Hayabusa and you ride it like a prat, your tires will be over in 4,000 km.

[00:17:00]And if you ride it a Hayabusa like a prat, you will not understand what the bike's genius is.

[00:17:05]So, you'll be like, "I bought the world's fastest bike from 1999 or whatever, and it just eats tires."

[00:17:11]You've got the superficial picture correct, but you haven't understood what the thing is about. And you can do this with anything. Yeah.

[00:17:18]Dude, you know what? Now Now this is a conversation that we've had uh Now think about it.

[00:17:24]The one thing that I used to love about my busa was um the sweetness of it and all that, of course, as a motorcycle.

[00:17:34]But the one thing it surprised me with was its efficiency. Yeah. For that kind of performance, that size, and that weight, that thing used to return between 17 to 21 km to the liter. And I used to be like Remember my Duke used to be like 24, 25, yeah? And he was like, "This is 1,300 cc, 200 horsepower.

[00:17:54]>> [laughter] >> And it's just slightly lower." Which is I mean, I didn't buy a busa saying fuel efficient only say like that it should be fuel efficient, right?

[00:18:02]But when it was, it made it feel sweeter and more special because of it. Not not because it was happening, because you understood that everything has been fine-tuned and honed, and you could feel it in so many other ways. And all yeah, this was one of the things that I wanted to also talk about. That it can also be an indicator of the health of the vehicle at times, especially if you are living with a vehicle.

[00:18:26]Changes in fuel efficiency can also be indicators of the health of the vehicle.

[00:18:29]And in this case, like the busa's example, I always think back to it and I feel that yeah, it showed like for a 270 kilo motorcycle with another, you know, a hefty guy on top being ridden, to manage what a 44 horsepower bike which weighs 170 kilos, 100 kilos lighter with 1/5 the power, Mhm. to be only 4 km off, that says something about what it's managing to do, right? Even as an entire system. And the same thing, remember when you got the V4? And V4 versus your 1200? You were discussing that yeah, I love riding this, but what was it you said there was this difference in the state of the efficiency also, right? Uh so the 1200's torque was peaky. Mhm. So it was not like super flat. It was high, but not flat. So, each peak would give you a better efficiency and each trough would give you a big drop. Whereas, the V4 had a high and flat. So, on the V4 you had much more latitude and you get roughly the same fuel economy. Although, the 1200 was overall slightly more efficient than the V4.

[00:19:28]So, see that also gives you an insight into the systems of the vehicle, right?

[00:19:32]It in the busa versus KTM case for example, the busa is running tech that the KTM cannot afford to have.

[00:19:40]Like what?

[00:19:42]You've got diamond like coatings on your cam followers and titanium valves and titanium springs and all of that on a busa which the KTM can't have. So, you can't push the combine see compression ratio has to go up. If you push compression ratio up, you get more economy and more performance. So, ideally all engines should be running some nonsense 16 is to one or some stupid number like that. So, that I can squeeze the biggest bangs out of the least amount of fuel.

[00:20:05]You can't make those engines run. Our fuels are not good enough. The heating of the engine will be all over the place etc. etc. etc. So, you start calming it down. The more I set your expectations saying this is a performance motorcycle.

[00:20:16]The more I can take you there and say yeah, there'll be some heat. You have to deal with it. The fuel economy won't be great. You'll have to deal with it. I can make it larger, heavier, put more technology in it because you're willing to pay more.

[00:20:25]You could build the same kind of efficiency out of that KTM 390 CC engine if you wanted to. But, that bike would cost 7 lakh rupees and you won't buy one.

[00:20:34]But, these are two ends of the spectrum in terms of complexity and technology.

[00:20:38]Yeah. The busa is Suzuki's flagship. The KTM is a KTM. Yeah, the 1290 Super Duke is KTM's flagship. They're not from the same scale. So, to me the line that we're drawing is way too straight. It's a lot more squiggly in the middle.

[00:20:53]No, I kind of don't agree on this one because on a very fundamental level forget about the technology inside, it is just a question of weight power that you're using to move.

[00:21:04]Right? Yeah. So, I mean the technology of course is optimizing things, but it isn't going to transform the thing entirely.

[00:21:10]>> It will. Not to this extent. Not >> I promise it will.

[00:21:14]I promise otherwise. I'll tell you in a car engine for example, which is a much larger and a much longer lasting engine driving a much heavier object and the expectation is 2 lakh 3 lakh or 4 lakh kilometers.

[00:21:24]It's a much much more even playing field.

[00:21:27]Motorcycle engines aren't expected to last that long. They're super light and they break quite easily if you think about it versus car engines. So it's sensitivity to what technology materials will give you is huge versus cars, which is why you don't see titanium conrods and titanium valves in cars quite easily. It takes you go up really really far up the ladder way.

[00:21:46]But you've got like 900 cc motorcycles that are almost at titanium valves. But I don't think the busa Anyways, we're getting fixated on these two bikes, but I don't think the busa is that high-tech bike that you're you're making it out to be. The busa is was for that time, but this is the second generation is effectively the same bike from 20 years ago.

[00:22:02]>> No. Yes. They changed all the elements that control the friction in that engine and it's not a small number of changes.

[00:22:09]Metallurgy of that bike is simple. It's not >> not that simple. First, they built a phenomenal engine, which the Duke engine is not. It is not a phenomenal engine.

[00:22:17]That Suzuki Hayabusa engine from the start has been a phenomenal engine. It has powered so many odd vehicles just because it was so bulletproof, which is a huge great starting point for Suzuki and for Suzuki it is not an unusual thing to do.

[00:22:31]On top of that came technology and refinement and Suzuki chose not to make it more powerful, don't forget.

[00:22:37]They chose to say, "Okay, technology, metallurgy, we can get 250 bhp from this engine.

[00:22:43]We don't want it." They kept [clears throat] it lower. So obviously your economy will be good. That engine is nowhere close to what it is capable of today.

[00:22:51]Yeah, it can do more. 100% Yeah. The KTM has jumped what? To jump 3 bhp more the KTM had to grow in size.

[00:22:59]That's how far they pushed that engine.

[00:23:01]>> Yeah.

[00:23:02]It's like that engine was even more extreme when they designed it. They toned it down.

[00:23:05]>> Yeah. I'm I'm telling you this line is not as straight as it looks to you. This is a very squiggly line. And from the single to the twin, the twin to the triple, the triple to the four, that thing changes dramatically. In your cars, you don't have singles anymore.

[00:23:17]No. Your base engines today are at least a triple. Yeah.

[00:23:22]So, the playing field there is far more even than motorcycles today. Correct.

[00:23:26]And because leisure cars become so expensive, whereas leisure motorcycles started at such low price points, the playing fields aren't the same. You can't make the same correlations. Mhm.

[00:23:35]And I'm telling you in India, the only reason why economy is not a bigger factor outside of being hygiene and outside being able to cancel your decision is because they overplayed the card right through the 2000s and well into the mids middle of the 2010s. If the economy card hadn't been played that hard, if you weren't made so sensitive to it, we would not have become anesthetized to it. Mhm. Today, we just don't care because it's like, "Oh god, this is too much information. How much is my expectation? 15. What does it do?

[00:24:01]16. Done." Are any of you using 100 125 cc motorcycles? It would be good to have an an insight on how you would approach buying a 1 120 I mean, 125 cc bike today.

[00:24:13]What is the importance of that? Even if you're buying a Raider or something which is like a cooler kind of 125. Uh how would you approach it? Because what was the last 125 bike we did? We've done all the scooters, which are all commuter bike. I'm telling you, we've done all the scooters, they're all commuters.

[00:24:27]Glamour X was there, Raider was there, N 125 was there, NS 125 was there, uh Hero Xtreme 125R was there. We've done a series of them. And I'm telling you, Karthik, I haven't seen a single comment on fuel economy in circles or on those videos. Not one. Awesome. I haven't seen a single comment on Instagram, where the audience is not as highly focused as Motoring Fam on the uh app is. I haven't seen a single comment about fuel economy on YouTube, either, which is a much larger and even more diffuse audience.

[00:24:55]They are wanting to hear a number.

[00:24:57]Right. that number is a expectation number which says that kind of bike should give 50. You say 51, 52, 53, 56, 58, we are okay. Mhm. The eyebrows will not come up until they hear a massively different number saying, "What is the expectation? 50? I'll give you 75." Mhm.

[00:25:12]Oh. Mhm. You will take notice because it's so far off the scale. But you say 48. Mhm.

[00:25:19]And I don't know that that person is going to get a test ride of a commuter anymore. Mhm.

[00:25:24]So my data set, and please feel free to comment. My data set says fuel economy on two wheelers is no longer a conversation as long as people are in the ballpark. Correct.

[00:25:34]That makes sense. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. And I it makes complete sense that after you get to a hygiene, and again, coming to a this kind of segment, that is not going to be your decision maker, like you said. It'll be a decision breaker if if it's a horrible situation.

[00:25:50]And uh I think with cars, because also the the numbers let's say, per liter of fuel what you'll travel.

[00:26:01]>> Oh yeah, cars are much lower.

[00:26:04]That sensitivity is much higher. Yeah.

[00:26:06]And therefore, how it enables people to use the vehicles can make a big difference.

[00:26:10]>> That's because the manufacturer has missed a trick, Karthik. Yeah.

[00:26:13]So a two wheeler giving 30 50 kilometers per liter, let's say, Mhm. is often ridden by two people.

[00:26:19]So per head, per capita economy is 25 kilometers per liter.

[00:26:24]In cars, you're taking four people at 12 kilometers per liter, so you should give it a multiple of four. It's 100 kilometers per liter per capita. That's a brilliant way of putting it.

[00:26:34]Then you're like, "Oh man, my car gives 100 per capita." There you go. Dude, somebody's going to do it.

[00:26:41]If it's a seven-seater, then the fuel efficiency is >> [laughter] >> 160 kilometers per liter, bro. Why not?

[00:26:48]It'll be insane. Yeah.

[00:26:50]>> [laughter] >> The See, I ride my bike solo. So I suffer some of the lowest economies all the class. Yeah, my KTM gives about 25. This one, if I ride my Duke the way I like to ride it, 22 that one. Whatever it is, right? I'm a solo rider. I have As soon as I have a partner, girlfriend, whatever, and she's sitting behind me, we double our fuel consumption. We're going the same distance in the same amount of fuel, bro.

[00:27:09]>> [laughter] >> So, remember when I first drove the Hyryder?

[00:27:13]Uh that same one I drive.

[00:27:15]And uh so, what had happened was Shumi and Akash had flown into Chandigarh, and I had picked up the Hyryder from >> Vitara.

[00:27:22]Oh, shocks. Uh sorry. Okay. Same difference. So, >> [laughter] >> Yeah.

[00:27:27]So, the Grand Vitara. I don't know why the Hyryder came into head. Because you were going higher, no?

[00:27:31]>> [laughter] >> They had gone to Chandigarh, and I had flown to Delhi, and I was to pick up the cars. Uh there was somebody else with me to drive the second car, which was a Scorpio N petrol. Uh rear-wheel drive, obviously. Uh and so, these two cars were driven down to Chandigarh, and then we started the hike up. And I remember the first leg in uh uh Delhi when I was driving around, and I'm looking at that fuel efficiency. I'm like, "Dude, this makes bikes look bad because I'm getting like I was getting some 26, 27, and I'm like, if you had four people in the car, and you're getting 25 km to the liter, dude, this makes no sense whatsoever."

[00:28:07]>> you, per capita fuel economy is the marketing tactic that manufacturers should really start on.

[00:28:11]>> You heard it first here.

[00:28:14]>> [laughter] >> Dude, it's actually a great one. It makes sense. It No, no, there's more slice and dice to this. So, in the US, you have HOV lanes, high-occupancy vehicle, where the rule is you can use that lane if you're a two-wheeler. Yeah, that's fine. Or, if you're a car, you have to have two people in the car with you. What are they basically saying?

[00:28:31]Mhm.

[00:28:32]You're sitting in a cupboard-sized space on a road. You're alone. You're burning that much fuel, and you're basically causing traffic. Mhm.

[00:28:40]And the reason why two-wheelers are exempt is because you just take up a lot less space.

[00:28:45]Two-wheelers have that thing of lane splitting and all of that also. Lane splitting is certain states, but HOV lane rule is either a multiple occupancy car or a motorcycle.

[00:28:54]Right? So, two wheelers get through faster everywhere because you can just use the HOV lanes there, right? But, if you extend the idea here and you go out into Mumbai's traffic today, apart from the Saab sitting in the back with the driver driving which have two occupants in it and one occupant is there because Saab couldn't be bothered to drive today.

[00:29:11]How many cars are occupied by more than that many people? And in that sense, every day that you drive yourself to work, the Uber guy is actually doing a more efficient job of it because he's got by my per capita calculation double the fuel economy of yours.

[00:29:24]You know, this is it it feels like such a far way we've come.

[00:29:28]I don't know if it's progress or not, but this was 2008 or something when I'd gone to Atlanta. And uh we were driving out of the airport and uh this car had come to pick me up. And I was sitting in the backseat and he went into this HOV lane, right? I didn't know what it was. And this is four five lanes on the what what is what they call as the interstate, right?

[00:29:51]Packed.

[00:29:52]>> Yeah, and you're flying through the whole thing. Block to block.

[00:29:54]And then he cut into the this lane and then we are the practically the only ones in that.

[00:30:01]And that is why the definition of the high occupancy vehicle lane is more than one person. And that is a trip and I remember that I remember it as a moment I'm looking at all those cars that we are crossing and thinking there's only one person in it.

[00:30:17]>> Yeah. There's only one person in it.

[00:30:19]>> And today we are there. Yeah. We are there. We may not have that volume of vehicles, but We are there. No, so yesterday on my way home, I was on a motorcycle. Mhm. I was going through a particularly crowded place which is normally crowded anyway, but there was a procession of some sort. It was a religious ceremony of some sort happening literally across the street from each other and that jam tail backed 2 km. So, 2 km I was literally clutch in first gear. Mhm. Took me about 30 35 minutes to get through the whole thing.

[00:30:46]Every vehicle I looked into Mhm.

[00:30:49]invariably had one person in it. Mhm.

[00:30:52]Where there were two people, one person was very very obviously a driver. Mhm.

[00:30:56]Correct.

[00:30:57]And the people who looked the most relaxed were people where there were cars with four five people in it who were busy talking to each other because the single occupant and the double occupant were both on their phones looking down like this and waiting for the jam to get over. Mhm.

[00:31:10]But that whole I mean we're in India.

[00:31:13]We're in Mumbai. [snorts] It's office traffic going home. Nothing exceptional.

[00:31:17]This particular road has trucks transiting also.

[00:31:20]Okay, so there were a few trucks.

[00:31:22]Mumbai's famous for bad parking. There were lots of vehicles badly parked which added to the problem. But all the vehicles that were stuck were mostly occupied by one human being.

[00:31:31]Not very efficient for sure. Yeah. That That is the problem.

[00:31:35]Correct.

[00:31:36]>> all the buses and trucks had at least two Mhm.

[00:31:38]>> cuz that's required by the law.

[00:31:40]But there's no law like that for cars.

[00:31:42]Mhm.

[00:31:43]So, there was a Mercedes Benz E-Class I think, single occupant driving himself.

[00:31:47]Mhm. Slightly happy he's driving his own Mercedes Benz, slightly sad doesn't even have connection or photo driver anymore.

[00:31:54]>> [laughter] >> Right? But there was also a chauffeur driven auto in there. Mhm.

[00:31:59]Oh, that's genius.

[00:32:00]That is genius. I love that idea. I just love that idea.

[00:32:04]>> Yeah.

[00:32:05]Yeah. Whole bunches of Ubers or whatever.

[00:32:07]>> Mhm. Clearly [clears throat] taxis yellow plated. Some are sitting in the back working, not working, on the phone, whatever it is.

[00:32:12]>> Mhm.

[00:32:13]Where were the occupied cars that were full? None of the private cars were full.

[00:32:17]And Okay, tell me one thing. Do you remember your shittiest uh motorcycle or car which just felt like this is a dog?

[00:32:30]Uh there haven't been many.

[00:32:32]Um but I'm going to stick to production I think because non-production there's been lots of ultra silly things that we're just like what the hell is this?

[00:32:42]As I said before, there are a couple of kinetics in there which were like At the racetrack we had the Mahindra's Pantero Centuro, one of those bikes to ride. No, no, before that, whatever it was called before.

[00:32:55]>> Anything that you've properly tested or like lived with a little bit that was just like Not really.

[00:33:04]The world is not full of really, really [ __ ] vehicles, honestly.

[00:33:08]Because I was trying to come at this thing that's saying that which vehicle is super efficient and makes so much sense.

[00:33:15]But I would not drive it.

[00:33:17]Oh, no, no, never. I have never encountered anything like that.

[00:33:21]Because I also kept clicking through like like in fact the vehicles that were good in efficiency were also good to drive or ride. It was not necessarily that because it was good in this department was bad in the other. I was trying to find something where where that happened. Not really. If you take a Splendor up a mountain road and you're going slower than you would normally, it still goes around corners and still leans into corners. And now when you lean into corner and nail the throttle and come out the other side, but still 75 km per liter, it's not bad. But it doesn't feel like a bad machine at any point, right? Even through that. What I remember the Splendor's for back then when the Splendor's came was for the freaking smoothness of that bike. It was unbelievable at that time how how refined. I still remember the click of the gearbox. Correct. The smoothness of that sloper engine, it was amazing. Yeah. No, so I I can't remember a total total duck that had phenomenal fuel economy at all.

[00:34:18]I don't think we make vehicles that badly anymore. Mhm.

[00:34:21]>> But I can't remember in the last 20 years that something was so bad when fuel economy was its only highlight. Okay. Because that should have been quite successful if people think that fuel economy was important back in 2013, that should have sold a lot. Correct.

[00:34:38]And which is the worst We discussed the worst Mustangs a lot more than that Volkswagen concept car that did 100 km per liter.

[00:34:44]>> XL 1.

[00:34:47]I think it was the XL 1.

[00:34:49]It sounds strange.

[00:34:49]>> like that. Yeah. It sounds strange today because we have an XL 6, but I think it was the XL 1 or something like that.

[00:34:55]>> this car that did over 100 km per liter got a lot less press time than the worst Mustangs ever made.

[00:35:00]What does it tell you about where the what the world actually thinks is is inferior and superior? Mhm.

[00:35:06]Yeah. Yeah. Nobody said that when the Veyron is at top flight and doing whatever 400 km per km per hour, it is consuming whatever 2 L per km. No, they said it empties its fuel tank in 30 in whatever 6 minutes.

[00:35:20]That's not the same thing. Mhm.

[00:35:22]Now you've turned it into an uh we'll run through your fuel tank in 6 minutes. Uh Yeah.

[00:35:28]So, the flip of yeah.

[00:35:30]Performance will always be the more exciting thing, for sure. Yeah.

[00:35:35]Economy cannot be exciting. It cannot be exciting. I mean, it can be if you're doing a magazine story.

[00:35:40]I Yeah. We which we've done. Okay, we were challenged to go to Pune and come back in 2 L. Yeah.

[00:35:46]100 cc bikes and we were given all the rules. No hypermiling, no coasting down slopes, no sitting behind a bus and holding on because the aerodynamic drag is not there.

[00:35:57]>> holding on, but just sitting in the >> can't sit in the shadow. Okay. If the bus is going slower than you normally might, you have to overtake. So, you have to ride as close to normal as possible and humanly as possible and all of that.

[00:36:05]>> L. Yeah. Yeah, 2 L just to go and come.

[00:36:08]Don't have to go into Pune. You have to go up to the Dehu Road turn off, take a U-turn, and come back. It's still 200 km. It is 200 km and all the four bikes returned. At the very least. All the four bikes returned. All the four bikes ran out on JNPT.

[00:36:19]Oh, they ran out on JNPT.

[00:36:21]>> Yeah. The lowest fuel economy was I was 91 and Rishad's bike I I they 102 103 km per liter, but we were not allowed to ride for economy. Uh-huh. Ride normally.

[00:36:32]Whatever.

[00:36:33]>> was, "Okay, don't do stupid stuff. You don't have to go at full throttle past everything because you're on 100 cc bike." So, that whole group was that Dream Neo Splendor kind of group, right?

[00:36:41]And the idea was, "If you ride normally, not super cautiously, not stupidly, and not super aggressively, all these manufacturers claim 90 plus or 95 plus or whatever it was, what will you see?"

[00:36:54]And we did see those numbers in the real world. We did.

[00:36:59]Because we were had a challenge in front of us.

[00:37:02]Because we were competing with each of us, right? So, me versus Alan versus Rishad versus it's I think Hali or somebody was the fourth rider. Because we were put in a situation where we were competing each other to not do stupid hypermiling or aggressive riding, but get maximum economy possible because there was a distraction.

[00:37:19]It was a great fun day. It took us 7 or 8 hours to go to Dehu Road and come back. We left early in the morning. And we reached back here at 4:00 or 5:00 or something. I remember all three of us >> Normally it would have still been like let's say 5-hour thing.

[00:37:30]You would have saved 2 2 and 1/2 3 hours maybe if you ridden more aggressively.

[00:37:33]And I remember we we all finished our fuel, and then Rishad comes from the back and says, "It's not over!" And then he goes Then he took [laughter] a U-turn again.

[00:37:42]Imagine Rishad riding fast. And then he And then you can see him go past us again on the other side of the road saying, "It's not over!"

[00:37:48]>> [laughter] >> But it only worked as entertainment.

[00:37:54]Because this is not how we ride motorcycles.

[00:37:56]None of the four of us ride motorcycles like this, but it only worked because there was a whole distraction in place saying, "Yeah, okay. Try to see if you can do this."

[00:38:03]Challenge in that. Right? And we were all like on each other saying, "Oh, there's a slope. Who's coasting down the slope?" Then he said, "Nobody's coasting down the slope. We're all good boys, right?"

[00:38:12]So, we were entertained in that sense.

[00:38:14]But would I wish on somebody that you go to Pune and back and this is a 200 km run and you should take 7 hours to do it. No. Mhm. Mhm. There are buses that do this faster.

[00:38:24]Please take a bus instead.

[00:38:28]The ultimate thing would be like the dense storages. That would be that would make travel so much more interesting once that happens with the EVs. It's only the electrics that can do it, right? Because as far as I can tell, the chemical storage system has been maxed out and nobody has seemed to be able It's not like the synthetic fuels are more energy dense than a fossil. So, it's not like we figured out a way where it doesn't affect the environment, it doesn't come out of the ground, but it carries 30% more energy than petrol does today or diesel does today. That is not being said anywhere or worked on anywhere as far as I can tell. Mhm.

[00:39:06]Batteries have also plateaued out quite a bit in the recent past. That curve that batteries were supposed to climb and saying they're getting denser and denser every year and cheaper and cheaper. Cheaper has sort of happened.

[00:39:16]Denser has not happened. We are at a plateau and we're waiting for this climb to start again. Yeah.

[00:39:22]The next phase.

[00:39:23]Yeah.

[00:39:25]But I think the joy of stopping is also has to be explored, yeah. The Splendor guys don't have to stop for fuel. I think they miss out.

[00:39:31]All the conversations, all the stuff that They have different reasons to stop. It's just >> [laughter] >> Tired tired from trying to keep up with something else.

[00:39:40]That will be their reason to stop. Yeah.

[00:39:43]It's true.

[00:39:44]>> [laughter] >> Yeah.

[00:39:46]The anyways, so for me like But how did the car guys reach the conclusion that a car designed for economies is inferior?

[00:39:55]I think it is Where does this begin? I think it's just that play between the let's say I mean, throwing them under the bus this way, but the the Europeans the This is a five-star rated car. Don't worry about it.

[00:40:08]>> [laughter] >> Because the Europeans are always the more driver-focused ones.

[00:40:13]And whereas let's say India's most popular brand Maruti Suzuki is always the one that will be talking about efficiency and they've always been perceived as boring except for a few highlights in the years.

[00:40:26]Like the Celerio RS, which is my poster car.

[00:40:32]So, I think that uh that spectrum kind of that juxtaposition of the two just makes it like, okay, this is boring and this is exciting. And this is exciting and it's inefficient. So, this is how the formula has to be. Okay.

[00:40:49]Whereas this is efficient, but it's boring. But actually there can be a middle ground and there can be a middle ground. There may not be there's no middle ground or there'll be a car middle ground. They've not got from LOL to LALL.

[00:41:01]What? LOL, which you know, lol if you prefer. LALL, live and let live.

[00:41:07]You want efficiency, buy one. You want to drive a focused car, buy one. The Indian government has so far not mandated the idea saying, "What is your surname?" Oh, it's uh Sharma. Sharma.

[00:41:17]Too many Sharmas have bought driver focused cars. You are due for an economy. The government doesn't say this.

[00:41:22]The government doesn't say, "D'Souza, too many D'Souzas have have a fuel efficient cars. You're a You're 917th D'Souza. You should have a performance."

[00:41:29]The government does not say this.

[00:41:30]>> government is not doing it, somebody else is moral policing now. Like there'll be people who be like, "Who buys a naturally aspirated engine?" If you are willing to be morally policed by anyone on earth, it is not the policeman's fault.

[00:41:45]You accepted this because there is no law on earth says third-party moral policing is enforceable in any form or fashion. There is a block button, there is a mute button, there is a restrict button, there is a report button.

[00:42:00]You can use all four, sometimes simultaneously.

[00:42:04]You can exit a room where you're being morally policed anytime you feel like.

[00:42:08]So, this whole thing is made up.

[00:42:10]We We have not as a society in India, I'm telling you, we are not getting to the stage where I can see it as LOL or LAL.

[00:42:19]We will.

[00:42:20]It takes time.

[00:42:22]We are only 70 years old as a country with 80 years old as a country as we know each other.

[00:42:26]It'll take time and we'll get there. But I'm telling you today, the first step to live and let live is to say, "This person is nobody to tell me to do it this way or that way." And to be able to say, "Therefore, I will disengage rather than escalate." You don't have to deal with him at any level at all. I was having this conversation with a 8-year-old yesterday.

[00:42:47]I'm not kidding.

[00:42:49]They have the same problems as you, 30, 40, 20, what whatever your age is, right? Because somebody's troubling this person at school.

[00:42:55]Mhm. And they're like, "Oh, they said this person and that person sitting in a tree, k i s s i n g." And obviously, this blew up, right?

[00:43:03]So, I was like, "You don't have to react." Mhm. First, them saying this doesn't put you in a tree.

[00:43:13]It doesn't make you kiss anyone. This whole thing is a troll. Mhm. You'll deal with online trolls later. You're dealing with a live troll right now. But what a troll feeds on is your response. And what your response uh is doesn't matter.

[00:43:26]The troll is just looking for a reaction. So, what we were telling this person to do is walk away. Mhm.

[00:43:35]And she's like, "How will that help?" I said, "See, the first time you walk away, it'll aggravate them. The second time you walk away, everybody will notice that you walked away and did not get aggravated.

[00:43:44]The third time, it'll become embarrassing for them to try and provoke you. The fourth time, they will wonder two times before they should provoke you or not because you don't seem to have a reaction to it. The fifth time, trolling has to stop because the energy on which the troll is living has gone away from the room." Mhm.

[00:43:59]Correct?

[00:44:00]It's the same for you, 20, 30, 40, 50-year-olds. If you're being trolled online in any way, and you feel trolled, I'm not even saying whether the troll is correct or wrong.

[00:44:07]If you're feeling trolled if you escalate, you're playing into their hands.

[00:44:13]If you think economy is great, I have no no problem with you.

[00:44:18]>> [snorts] >> Economy is great. Get an Get an efficient car, motorcycle, bicycle, electric, whatever is your flavor of tea.

[00:44:25]Own it, man. Like I will happily admit I like efficient vehicles.

[00:44:29]That doesn't mean I like boring vehicles.

[00:44:31]They can be good vehicles and they're efficient.

[00:44:33]>> even if Karthik were to say I like efficient boring vehicles, what's wrong with that? Yeah, nothing wrong with that. Absolutely. What is wrong with boring?

[00:44:41]Nothing is wrong with boring. It works for me. I have other ways to find excitement and therefore I don't pay attention to vehicles and a boring in a vehicle is fine. All I expect it to do is give me 25 km per liter on the way to work. Nothing wrong with this at all.

[00:44:55]Yeah.

[00:44:56]If our idea of you drive a car, I drive a car, so in some way we are part of the society as we do similar kind of activities is going to get divided into these kind of nonsenses.

[00:45:09]What's the point?

[00:45:13]It's like I went to India bike week for the first time and my shock >> [snorts] >> because to me the world of motorcyclists realizes we are the small and the world is the large and therefore we have to stay together and help each other.

[00:45:26]And I'm walking past this argument where they're saying, "So what if you're the Yamaha RD350 club?

[00:45:31]That's the Harley parking over there.

[00:45:33]Yes, but we have vintage bikes.

[00:45:35]So what if your bikes are old? Your parking is outside.

[00:45:40]Okay? And then 5 minutes later somebody's like, "So what do you ride?" I have So the guy said I think classic 350 or something like that he says.

[00:45:48]I have a Triumph Bonneville. Okay. Ooh, lines in the sand everywhere. No, wrong.

[00:45:54]This is not what it's about. Mhm.

[00:45:59]In a country of so many million motorcycle riders and scooter operators, 1% of that barely have a beating heart for two wheelers as a format that they aspire to get inspired by and love.

[00:46:13]This many people.

[00:46:15]We are I am Triumph, you are Harley, he is Royal Enfield, he's a cruiser rider, I am a sports bike rider, I am from Delhi, you're from the South. Come on, man. We have to grow past this.

[00:46:26]Yeah.

[00:46:28]I think you should start a club. Which one? We'll call it efficient and boring car club.

[00:46:33]I'm in, man.

[00:46:36]I'm so in.

[00:46:37]>> [laughter] >> I also thought honestly I would tell people would look at the bus and say that oh man, this bike is insane. And I still have them actually it's the most chill bike you can imagine. It's such a peaceful bike. Such a peaceful bike that I would say it fits into the efficient and boring club. Because it's just like you be karungi, you be karungi, you be ho jayega.

[00:46:55]It's all good. It's like that. It's managed. It's like that. No fuss, no drama. Yeah. Yeah. It just made the mistake of looking like that and making a claim that it did that was that was it.

[00:47:06]>> inferiority thing happened so often that it riled you up this much? Because what I do not like and this is always what annoys me is that good cars get slammed for being good in ways that people cannot comprehend. Like this let's take the crash test one example, right? Which we kept saying like now we have the Victorious which we said has been upgraded a bit but is a five star rated car and highest rating. Let's say even without what changes were made, it would be at least a four star rated car.

[00:47:34]But people could not believe that it would be a safe car because it is a car that is so efficient. And because it's a Maruti, the assumption is that it would automatically be too light for its own good. But we kept on and we've always said that it's handling is fantastic.

[00:47:49]It's such a confident car.

[00:47:52]For people it's always like hmm, no, it can't be because it's so efficient. It's because of the lightweight. It's efficient because it's light and therefore it's unsafe.

[00:48:01]Have you heard you give the vehicle a chance? Have you heard ignorance is bliss?

[00:48:05]Have you heard?

[00:48:07]You have?

[00:48:09]But it's misread. Okay. It's a misprint actually. It's a typo. There's a little dandy missing which connects the L and the I in bliss. It's actually ignorance is boss. Mhm.

[00:48:21]And you don't argue with the boss.

[00:48:23]>> don't want to join that team, man.

[00:48:25]>> You don't have to join.

[00:48:25]>> I don't want to join that team. You don't have to join. Karthik, you don't argue with the boss. The boss is always right.

[00:48:31]Does the boss want a heavier, less efficient car that they think is more fun?

[00:48:36]Let them be, yeah.

[00:48:38]Live and let >> We actually that's right. We I'll talk to you guys.

[00:48:41]>> [laughter] >> Live and let live, yeah.

[00:48:44]What difference does it make to your life?

[00:48:46]And yeah, and and to me the efficiency side is such a beautiful thing because I don't see it as just an engine running lean or the compression being high. It's a system.

[00:49:00]It's an entire idea >> And a very complicated system. comes together to create something that can really be special, right? It's And that is why I was thinking about which is why I asked you because I couldn't think of a car that you felt was great in terms of efficiency but was terrible to ride because invariably you'll start thinking of Maruti's and I said Alto, Alto, three cylinders. I said no, but Alto's so much fun.

[00:49:23]>> No, so much fun. So much fun, right?

[00:49:25]>> why it's called the Lord Alto.

[00:49:27]Then I thought okay, what's the next thing and then I came to the 1.2. I said 1.2 was A-Star, A-Star.

[00:49:32]>> [laughter] >> What that A-Star was okay job.

[00:49:35]The A-Star was not the Celerio diesel, that twin cylinder was the one which people was it sounded horrible. It sounded horrible. And it was it didn't have much of a top speed, but I can't tell you I had so much fun with that engine also. That's because you're broken, yeah.

[00:49:52]>> [laughter] >> Okay, give me example of some other car which you think must be efficient. Let me let me just >> Must be efficient. Yeah, or is efficient that you know is efficient.

[00:50:01]>> A-Star is efficient. It was a dog.

[00:50:04]Yeah, it's is efficient I'm saying because there are A-Stars still out there returning some A-Star automatic godforsaken 20 km per liter or some nonsense number like this.

[00:50:12]So then what which other one would be would be end up sitting in that bracket?

[00:50:16]Because I kept coming to that and I was like no, that that click has not happened, right? Where where you look down at a car and say I don't want it despite the efficiency, you know, like that's that's never gone into that space. Yeah, I've never had to go to a showroom and say let's see listen the this bike or car is so bad that if you can find a way for that thing to return 300 km per liter, I'd consider buying it. Below that I'm out.

[00:50:40]>> [laughter] >> Uh sorry, while you Do you know the CRDI 100? Yeah. Of course you know the CRDI 100.

[00:50:46]That was for a 100 cc. It was a good bike. It was an efficient bike but with so much freaking personality, man.

[00:50:55]Again, I loved it because of that ability to do this and that. Would you look at it as a 100 cc and say 100 cc LML, yeah, sure. You could have dismissed it like that. But if you rode it And I would have made that mistake if I hadn't ridden it. Yeah. You rode it and you were like boss.

[00:51:11]>> No, Karthik, that's When was the CRDI 100? 2005. So back in the day people were still willing to put in the effort and go get test rides. Today you look at 3D online and you formed your opinion saying okay, this is I'm done.

[00:51:22]>> [snorts] >> Mhm.

[00:51:24]Digital experiences too much in the throwback zone.

[00:51:27]Okay, so I think for I'll tell you how you can establish this. This is just to clarify for Karthik. I'm not judging anyone here at all. Karthik is getting a few DMs on Instagram which he generally doesn't respond to. He gets a lot of messages on Circles on the Motor Inc app which he does respond to.

[00:51:42]I want you to religiously ask everybody who asks you a question saying did you get a test drive yet?" Mhm.

[00:51:48]I promise you will be shocked.

[00:51:52]On my Instagram DMs, which I'm answering buying questions at least five a day.

[00:51:56]Wow. Plus everything on circles, every single day. My most common question is not who you are, where you're from, what are your expectations. You are on a test ride. Have you done a test ride yet?

[00:52:07]Mhm.

[00:52:08]99.95% have not.

[00:52:11]No way. 99.95% intend tend to go for a test ride having first gotten opinion, which is just the backward way to do it. So basically you're saying, "Shumi sir, will you please preload my opinion so that when I go to the showroom, I'm confirming your opinion rather than forming mine?"

[00:52:30]Right?

[00:52:31]It takes all of my patience to not say something snarky at that point of time and say, "No, listen.

[00:52:36]You made a list. Awesome. On this list, I will tell you the obvious red flags.

[00:52:40]The bikes that I would not bother for you to have to spend any time with. If you want to test ride that, please go get test rides on that also. And those will be the usual names that you already know. It'll be the Honda 350s, it'll be the Dominar 400, etc. etc." I'm saying, "These bikes, whether they're on your list or not, if you don't get a test ride, you're not missing anything."

[00:52:56]So that your agenda is not 14 bike test rides. I can shorten it to maybe nine for you.

[00:53:01]Get to the nine, we'll discuss.

[00:53:03]Watch my videos. Go get test rides.

[00:53:06]Okay.

[00:53:07]Until you get a test ride, I'm not answering a single question.

[00:53:11]Every single day.

[00:53:13]How many people come back?

[00:53:15]Lots. Nice. Lots.

[00:53:18]Nice.

[00:53:19]That is good. And they haven't understood yet. And it's the strangest thing. The shortest test ride will give you data that you can at least use against the bike, if not for the bike.

[00:53:31]Okay? I've given you this example before. I will give it to the till my dying day, when me and my wife would try to order food before Swiggy basically mucked up the system by having 900 menus. You would actually have paper menus. And the average locality you would never get past 17 18 20 of these menus.

[00:53:47]And it would be like, what do you want to eat? I don't know. You decide. You've been here?

[00:53:52]The hack is say okay, what do you not want to eat? As soon as you say Chinese, four of the menus are gone. If she she's not willing to have Chinese, then I won't let her have Italian.

[00:54:00]Why not?

[00:54:01]I won't I won't I don't want Italian.

[00:54:03]Two more gone. Right? By elimination you'd reach a decision which you would both be happy with very quickly.

[00:54:09]It's the same for test rides and drives.

[00:54:12]You don't drive it to say is this going to be an awesome car to have? No need. Go there and say, what are the reasons why I would probably end up hating this experience. And even if you can identify that accurately, you will cancel out half the list before you know it.

[00:54:25]And that takes 400 m to do.

[00:54:28]After that, if you have second guessing and doubts, take a second test ride.

[00:54:31]Most of the time it's just fear of missing out.

[00:54:34]I feel like the suspension doesn't work for me.

[00:54:38]But I'm not confident of my opinion.

[00:54:39]What if I've got the wrong end of it?

[00:54:41]That's when you come back to me and say, I felt the suspension was bad and I was like, yeah, it is or it is not.

[00:54:46]So yesterday we were having a conversation just to give you a new story.

[00:54:51]Uh a colleague, his name is also Karthik.

[00:54:54]We call him K2. And he was at the Moto Art School where Shumi teaches and he was doing his level one and two, right?

[00:55:02]One? Level one. Level one. So he was there and uh so yesterday I was just going on ragging him and saying, dude, where are the photos of you riding on the track? I heard you were riding very well. And in that entire conversation we start talking about riding on the track.

[00:55:14]And the lines that we end up taking for this corner and that corner. It's always a lot of fun because you're kind of reliving those moments. And uh so at that point K2 said that uh are you but I wanted to follow you. I never got a chance to follow you because then I would know the line in that one corner, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So he would basically know the the line around the track.

[00:55:35]And immediately like Shumi said no.

[00:55:40]And what we what we kind of told him was that what you're looking for is the truth.

[00:55:45]And you'll think that there is only one truth, but that is not true. Yeah.

[00:55:50]A line for him, he's a much taller rider. He's taller than Shumi. Yeah.

[00:55:54]He's thinner than Shumi, so he's definitely taller and lighter than me.

[00:55:57]Mhm.

[00:55:58]So, how he's going to sit on a bike, how he's going to work the bike, what his experience is and therefore how comfortable he feels and there's that one corner we always talk about which has a you know bumpy section right in the middle and it's a long corner, it's quick as well. So, how do you handle it?

[00:56:12]It depends on who you are mentally, physically, what you're riding. It will change. So, his truth will be different from Shumi's truth to my truth. And the sad fact is that maybe you as a car buyer or a bike buyer at some point was given a truth by somebody else and it was their truth, but you've taken it as gospel truth. Meaning that that is the only way that this can be done. Correct.

[00:56:35]And that doesn't have to be true. And for that you have to go out and experience all these different vehicles and figure out what is actually the truth for you. Yeah. You're supposed to be figuring out independence and interdependence. What you figured out so far is dependence.

[00:56:51]Yeah, but on the interdependence note, again, efficiency does not have to mean boring.

[00:56:58]Efficiency does not have to mean inferior. That combination when it comes together can be absolutely magical. Can I give you an example of this?

[00:57:07]>> Go for it.

[00:57:09]So, I've ridden a succession of motorcycles to the racetrack now. This is a routine thing for me.

[00:57:14]I started with a KTM Duke 200.

[00:57:16]I have all my motorcycles go on that route including Aprilia, but I've had a whole bunch of test motorcycles do that same route, too.

[00:57:22]The first couple of times it was about 1,000 km and it didn't have to go fast.

[00:57:27]After that it was about fuel economy.

[00:57:29]Mhm.

[00:57:31]Efficiency. Mhm. Cuz if I can make the bike more and more efficient with my riding, then I can go there quicker. I can burn less energy, mine. I can burn less energy, it's. I can spend less money doing it, and I might trip will cost me less. And just to give you simple mathematics on the Ducati 1200, let's call it. Every time you'd stop for fuel, back in the day, not at current fuel prices, you would spend maybe 1,300 rupees to top up your tank full.

[00:57:54]So, if you can be so efficient that you don't need one of those fuel tanks on the way in and one of those tank fulls on the way out.

[00:58:00]That's 3,000 rupees in your pocket.

[00:58:03]Money that you just never spent.

[00:58:07]And that does not mean slow. That does not mean boring. That means you are 100% focused on your instant and average fuel economy readouts as you ride and you're constantly checking.

[00:58:17]If I go a little bit faster, what do I do? If I go a little bit slower, what do I do? If I overtake the thing really quickly, and then the next 10 trucks like that, or do I take it so super easy? Do I use 1200 V4 max power, or do I say torque, high revs, peaceful, it's just a truck. We are on a very fast motorcycle. I don't need to extract all of it, etc., etc. And you add, add, add, add, and say, "Hey, hang on a minute.

[00:58:39]The bike that gives you 14 kilometers per liter in the city struggles to get to 17 in the city, can return 24 out on the highway if you know exactly what you're doing."

[00:58:50]It can be done.

[00:58:52]And this understanding I love. So, one of the things that we've kind of figured out now is with the EVs.

[00:59:00]That you know, the entire conversation was, "They're so good for the city.

[00:59:03]They're excellent. That's the best place for them, etc., etc." And then when we started doing the testing, and so now in the views >> No, who said this? Just for reference.

[00:59:12]Because I think the first transition from let's say petrol to to electric, it was let's say cost per kilometer-wise, it is way, way better. But in the overall sense of the efficiency, where is it most efficient? Is actually not in the city. Can't be. Exactly. Because we had all those things of region breaking. Region breaking is feeding back into the system. Region breaking between you and me is [ __ ] It's very mild, but whatever. That's in all for EVs everything is being added in percentages back, right? So It's a subatomic habit.

[00:59:49]So in city you would always assume that that will be the place where an EV will give you the maximum range. But it turns out that's not the case.

[00:59:57]>> Mild and constant will always outperform interrupted.

[01:00:01]So city generally let's take ball park.

[01:00:05]We tested right now the Which was the last one? Harrier EV?

[01:00:10]City you can get 360 390 I'm talking about heavy traffic, right?

[01:00:17]That kind of like what people will typically do in a big city You're saying range per charge kilometers. Sorry?

[01:00:22]You're saying range per charge kilometers.

[01:00:24]>> per uh full charge, right? 360 390 kilometers.

[01:00:28]Now in this on the same full charge on a highway how much more will it go? Will it even go more? That was the question. You'd think that no, it would be way more it would consume more energy then. In fact, when you're cruising at 100 kilometers an hour it's it will deliver say 400 to about 430 440 that kind of difference.

[01:00:51]Okay, not bad.

[01:00:52]But it's again that in between zone that 40 to 80 in that sweet spot this thing goes to another and all of them not just the Harrier every EV that we've tested.

[01:01:03]They suddenly the efficiency is something else. So from that same battery pack, the same car, everything the range will now you can get 500 kilometers from that as well. It's true for ICs too. Yeah, that's the funny thing. It's almost the same thing as ICs.

[01:01:18]>> So I remember the one of the early rides on my Ducati 1200. There is a stretch on the way to Bengaluru where there aren't any fuel stations. And I always vaguely know where it is, but I until that point I didn't precisely know where it is.

[01:01:31]I didn't.

[01:01:33]So I entered that and I had a feeling saying Oh, I should have filled up. And I hate making U-turns and going back.

[01:01:39]I hate it. [laughter] Okay? Now I have this I don't think you're the only one. So I have this feeling saying, "Oh, I really should have not done put myself in this situation, right?" So I'm slowing down my cruise.

[01:01:51]And I come down to 80. And my range starts to reflect the change, right? So it goes from I think 110 km of range left. And to me the fear is that I think this is a 130 km stretch is why I'm stressing about it. And I know that the petrol pump at the end of this stretch, he knows he's the only one.

[01:02:09]So he will try to con you. There are people who try to talk to you while you're filling up and underfilling, overfilling. Legendary petrol pump it is.

[01:02:16]>> [snorts] >> So I'm doing all of this. So as I'm doing all of this, I'm using the cruise control going slower and slower and slower and slower.

[01:02:22]Then I get to 80.

[01:02:23]And from 110 it becomes 165.

[01:02:27]80 is not slow.

[01:02:29]Yeah.

[01:02:30]Yeah.

[01:02:33]Again, 50 km in range theoretically.

[01:02:36]Just by taking 20 kmph or something off.

[01:02:39]Correct. And all I did on that stretch, which is not a very heavy traffic stretch anyway, so it's very good for fuel economy, is I didn't overtake anything aggressively after that.

[01:02:46]So I'll go okay, you're going 82, I'm going 80. Do I need to pass you? No, it's You'll slowly go away from me. I'll just find a lane that is farther away from you, ideally on the left, and just watch you slowly drive away from me.

[01:02:56]It's all right.

[01:02:58]On that stretch I got passed by a few people.

[01:03:01]Okay.

[01:03:03]I got to that petrol pump, laughed in his face because I could now go 30 km more and then go to a better petrol pump instead.

[01:03:09]And how much did you have remaining by the time you got there? I still had 30-40 km of range left at the next petrol pump, which is not very far. It's just that you're so stressed at that point that you want to go to this con man, right? Instead you drive another 5-6 km and there's a you enter either Davangere or something is there and then there are four five eight pumps right after that. So, it's not a crisis but it feels like it because you've just come through 100 km of oh, there's no fuel station here.

[01:03:32]Awesome, but that mindset is a whole different mindset. I am saying it's a fun mindset because I've been okay.

[01:03:40]After a while that gets boring.

[01:03:41]Especially if you're on the same vehicle over and over and over again. How much can you do?

[01:03:46]Okay. The other the bike which is the opposite of this which is in my garage is the Tuono.

[01:03:52]The Tuono returns 13 km per liter.

[01:03:55]No matter what. You do whatever the hell you want. You want to ride it peacefully, aggressively, at the race track, you do whatever you want. 13 km per liter, take it.

[01:04:03]Like at the race track, I have been slow at the race track. Now I'm fast with it at the race track. I feel fuel roughly the same time of day every single track day.

[01:04:11]So, they top up my tank in the morning on day one.

[01:04:14]It will be one session before the end of day one when the fuel light will come on.

[01:04:18]It's that. You go slow, fast, you let the bikes be borrowed by friends so you are sitting out a session. You do whatever you want. It will come on then.

[01:04:25]It's believable but it sounds so crazy that it does that. Yeah. It's it's completely nuts that it'll do that.

[01:04:31]>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:04:32]You ride it as hard as you possibly you just come back to 12.65. Then you ride it as efficiently as you can. You baby it every one at 13.65. You're like what the hell, I'm wasting my time.

[01:04:43]>> [gasps] [laughter] >> Yeah. So. Mhm. I don't think efficiency has to be looked down upon.

[01:04:52]I think people should just stop looking down upon people as a thing. It's what you gain from it.

[01:04:57]Is your superiority so fragile that if you couldn't look down upon somebody you couldn't feel better about yourself?

[01:05:03]I think that's a much more key issue than fuel economy.

[01:05:06]>> [snorts] >> Like I am so self-absorbed I just feel superior. I I look down on anyone. Do you get it? done. I'm telling you, man, having a huge selfish ego is awesome.

[01:05:17]Right? So, I can admire Singhi's capabilities fully and be in all admiration of men. It doesn't make me any smaller. I'm still huge.

[01:05:29]>> [laughter] >> Okay.

[01:05:31]What? Nothing. I'm giving solutions.

[01:05:34]Yeah. Yeah. You know. Does it sound like I'm I'm like being flippant about it?

[01:05:38]I'm dead serious.

[01:05:40]>> But like, [laughter] if you can pull this off, I'd love to hear from you.

[01:05:44]I want to know how you crack the code, okay? Yeah. That's that's the question.

[01:05:48]>> Be secure saying, "Hey, listen, I'm a human. I have issues. Everybody does.

[01:05:52]I'm comfortable with my issues. I worked it out." Then you being better at me at these things doesn't make me inferior to you. It's fine. Your car gives 32 km per liter, good for you. Your car gives 13 km per liter, good for you. You are driving. You're already doing better than the guy who has to take a bus.

[01:06:06]>> [snorts] >> And I'm just going to say try and look deeper. Try and figure a little bit more out before you decide for your decide for yourself. Don't take somebody else's truths as yours. Find your own own answers.

[01:06:22]Figure out what works for you. Because that satisfaction that you'll get and that joy you'll get is something else and it'll be a much wider thing. Like he's saying, you'll you'll you'll be including yourself in many more worlds and many more possibilities then, right? I think which you may be excluding yourself from right now.

[01:06:41]That's about it.

[01:06:43]You don't have to hate to think about it.

[01:06:45]And that's just it, right? Like I keep coming Sometimes we're both so upset when we are when we're talking motoring. First, you might see that, you know, we're we're kind of worked up or something is seeming a little bit off because something's gotten under our skin.

[01:06:58]Because when you're looking at a vehicle, you're not seeing it as just as a machine. It's like you're you're talking to somebody, right? And you're feeling that. And and and at times you feel pained because of what what's happening there. Like you could say that and no, it could have been this, right?

[01:07:11]It should have been that.

[01:07:13]And so that's what we'd like you to meet the best that you possibly could and maybe live with them if that suits you.

[01:07:21]Right?

[01:07:22]It could be a fuel efficient car. It doesn't have to be a high performance car.

[01:07:27]Could be both. Actually think about it in the reverse just as a closing thing.

[01:07:31]Have you driven performance cars that were just terrible?

[01:07:37]Not flat out terrible. Yeah, but close to?

[01:07:40]Yeah.

[01:07:41]This answer was not true for the efficient cars.

[01:07:44]We struggled to find an efficient car that was an absolute dog, but as soon as I said performance car that was an absolute dog, he's like not a total dog, but yeah, there were a few that Like there are some cars now I don't want to get into it, but like which are halo cars for people and you I wouldn't have one in my garage.

[01:07:58]In theory therefore, it is easier to screw up a performance car than it is to a efficient car and that makes efficient cars more superior.

[01:08:05]>> [laughter] >> Take it.

[01:08:08]Oh, good one. We can wrap it up. It's true for bikes, [laughter] too.

[01:08:14]Okay, tell me.

[01:08:17]Motorcycle engineers figured out how to make fast engines long before they figured out how to make good chassis.

[01:08:21]Today are in that golden spot where both technologies are super capable and talk to each other and you can get balance and all of that.

[01:08:28]There were those bikes in the 70s and the 80s and the 90s and were were there not really fast dog motorcycles in the 2000s? Right.

[01:08:36]Remember there was a bike which is now a legend, but what was the legend for? It was so powerful that it bent its wheels under acceleration.

[01:08:45]Wheels. The the the spokes on the rims, alloy rims, they weren't strong enough.

[01:08:50]So it could actually become an oval wheel for a under acceleration. This has been turned into a virtue as today saying you're so legendary powerful.

[01:08:58]What they're basically saying the chassis was [ __ ] Oh.

[01:09:02]Okay.

[01:09:03]What was this?

[01:09:05]Would you like to ride this bike today?

[01:09:07]You would, right? Because he's like, "Oh man, it bent its own wheels, bro." I want to see it. I don't want to ride it.

[01:09:12]This is an early GSX-R 750.

[01:09:14]Oh, yeah? The legend says it was so powerful and the chassis was designed was so far behind the time that when they put the first alloy wheels in, this motorcycle could not keep the wheels round.

[01:09:26]Alloys used to distort.

[01:09:29]>> We give Buell credit for building a frame, which is called the Iso-Planer, which made the bike go around the corners keeping the wheels in line. What is being left unsaid?

[01:09:38]Then you when you put the Harley-Davidson V-twin into that frame, it vibrated so hard that the wheels became misaligned with each other, so it would not go around the corner anymore.

[01:09:45]So, he had to invent a system to make it happen. Full credit to Buell. That's not That's a problem we had made by not making the engine any smaller.

[01:09:55]Oh, I didn't know this. Yeah.

[01:09:58]I have to read it up now. Yeah.

[01:10:01]Wild. So, to me I think if you were to look at the history of the world and look at vehicles that were made efficient and boring, that would generally be a more competent set of vehicles than high-performance vehicles. We've made lots more mistakes trying to make these than we've tried to make those. Mhm.

[01:10:18]Okay, safer engineering, more routine engineering if you like. Fair enough.

[01:10:24]But if eyes closed, you had to spend your money, if you bought the efficient one, you'd probably get a better vehicle even today.

[01:10:32]So, inferiority, it's a complex.

[01:10:35]But don't forget vehicles are also complex.

[01:10:40]Hello, buddy.

[01:10:41]Mhm? Very good.

[01:10:43]>> [laughter] >> Very good. I have nothing to add.

[01:10:46]But dependents become interdependents.

[01:10:50]Become independents.

[01:10:55]Then? Is that what you wanted to go?

[01:10:57]Awesome, awesome. Great summation. Loved it.

[01:11:00]Think for yourself and it's okay to be wrong. We'll all learn. We've also been wrong.

[01:11:05]Maybe we're wrong right now.

[01:11:06]I'm sure somebody will tell us how wrong we are.

[01:11:09]Oh, but this is only on the app.

[01:11:11]>> [panting] >> Share it with your friends.

[01:11:17]Yeah, yeah. Share it with those friends.

[01:11:19]Whoever it is that Tik Tok Karthik, if you know who these people are, please share it with them.

[01:11:26]It's spreading. That's the worry. What is spreading? This nonsense. It's cycle, Karthik.

[01:11:34]We are passing through the nonsense age.

[01:11:37]Next is the golden age again.

[01:11:41]Okay, your summation was too good. I want that to be the last thing people remember. Yeah.

[01:11:45]3 2 Coordinate it. Come on, come on. Okay.

[01:11:50]3 2 1 disconnect.