Atheist From London Hears the Argument From Motion For the First Time

本站添加: 2026-05-15

[00:00:00]Yeah. So this first actualizer must not be changed by anything external to it but is purely actual >> not itself changed by anything else. A being that is purely actual is what we mean when we say God.

[00:00:23]Hello.

[00:00:25]>> Uh hello. Um I'm calling from London.

[00:00:29]Oh, what's up, man?

[00:00:31]>> Yeah. Yeah. Um, so I'm not like I'm just trying to gain some knowledge, ask some questions. So, um, why so God claims to be all powerful, right?

[00:00:45]>> Yeah.

[00:00:45]>> Uh, and and all loving or or that's what Christians believe. So, why are people in the Middle East um uh in war and children, girls sold to people twice their age, children still in war, but they're praying.

[00:01:05]Why hasn't God saved them for that?

[00:01:07]Basically, >> well, the reason as to why they going through it is because people is wicked.

[00:01:13]Um God, like I don't know what you mean by why hasn't he saved them?

[00:01:19]from it. Like that just depends as to what you mean.

[00:01:23]>> Uh well, okay. So, I asked that cuz there's Christians claiming that um there's Christians claiming that God has the power of God has saved them from cancer or helped them get a job promotion. So, why are his priorities there, but um not not with people at war? I mean, if if you're saying that there's Christians that were saved from cancer, that means that they had cancer, which means that they had trouble to be saved from.

[00:01:56]And you could have asked them the same question while they were in the middle of going through cancer before they felt like that they were saved out of it. you could have asked him the same question, right? You're just looking at the like the effect of God saving and then just trying to put that back. Um like so they could be in the middle of their cancer period. Like they could be in the middle of their trouble and God's salvation is over the horizon for them and whatever that means for you. Um, but the thing in Christianity is not being saved from all of your problems to the point to where you're like, "Oh, I'm not going to go through anything that's difficult or whenever things get difficult, I'm going to be taken out of it." That's not what Christianity teaches at all. Uh, but we're shown that we have a God u that experienced our suffering even greater, right? We have a God that actually endured suffering. So when we endure suffering, we can understand how to be faithful, how to pray, how to be strong, how to be courageous, how to endure until the end. And that's what's being taught in Christianity is enduring all suffering until the end. It's not, hey, if I pray, then the suffering is going to stop. Even if it doesn't stop, I'll still believe. Um, so yeah.

[00:03:18]>> All right. Okay. So I'm not you're saying that I understand what you're saying about if someone is in the midst of cancer they'll be questioning um um God the same way that someone during war would be. But I'm talking about people. So, let's say someone got saved from cancer and claimed it was God. And then there's someone who's uh let's just take a bad example. Uh a 9year-old girl that was raped by a man twice her age. Why twice, triple, quadruple her age? Why does she get saved? Does she not get saved? But then the person the person with cancer gets saved.

[00:04:05]>> Yeah. So that I mean that's a question that no one is is really going to know uh in regards to like pretty much why certain evils are permitted. Um what we can know is that based off of God's character that whatever God permits can be bring about for some greater good. Um not saying that that thing itself obviously is good but it's permitted for some greater good even if we don't know what that good is.

[00:04:35]Um >> so but the reason as to why certain things are permitted by God and and in whatever way shape or form right that's not going to be 100% known to us.

[00:04:49]I'll give you an example, right? I'll give you an example of a time in which someone would be saved, >> right? So, there's an instance in the Bible where there was a man with an ailment who lived like this for years, like all his life and uh these people, they came up to Jesus and they asked him like, "Oh, like who's the one that sinned that made him like this? Like, was it his parents? Was it, you know, people before him? Was it him? like what what's the deal as to why he got stuck with this ailment?

[00:05:19]>> Mhm. Jesus like, "No, it's not about sin, but this was put on him for the glory of God to be shown." And then this person is healed, right? So, this person goes uh with this ailment for the glory of God to be shown decades later. Uh now, in the middle of those decades, no one knows the reason as to why this evil is being permitted, right? Why is God permitting or withholding his healing for this particular person? And then it's shown decades later. Do you have to go?

[00:05:52]>> But doesn't Yeah. Okay. I understand what you're trying to say. But doesn't God um doesn't don't Christians believe that God is a just God? So why are people And it say something along the lines of um correct me if I'm wrong.

[00:06:06]Something along the lines of he knew us when he was we were in our mother's womb.

[00:06:10]>> Oh no.

[00:06:12]>> And and um so basically he he kind of he's all omnisient. He's all knowing. He kind of knows our destiny. So why are some people created just to be at a disadvantage? And let me give you an example. Um so you don't choose what what religion you're born into, right?

[00:06:34]>> Uh I mean sure.

[00:06:36]>> Yeah. Okay. So, and the retention rate of religion if you're raised into it is about 70 odd% um from stats just depending on the religion. So if um fundamentally in essence getting to heaven requires or getting a feeling the effects of God requires um you to follow the right religious path then that means some people are born disadvantaged to others and that means in a more extreme case people that are sent to hell are punished because of the circumstances they were born into rather than um them actually rejecting the one true religion.

[00:07:23]>> Um so if you're asking why are certain people um placed in certain predicaments if God already knows um the thing is going to be in regards to your free will as well.

[00:07:39]So you still have to like you still have the ability to freely choose and align yourself with that which is good.

[00:07:46]>> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, someone's told me that before. Sorry to interrupt you, but then doesn't that mean that um so wait, so free will, is that what you're trying to say?

[00:08:01]>> Yeah. So in regards to to free will, right? Even though God knows what you'll do with your free will, you still have to use the free will.

[00:08:13]>> Okay. So >> Okay. Yeah. So he can put you in in whatever situation or you could be born into whatever situation, but you still have the ability to use that free will.

[00:08:24]Now God could already know what you're going to do, but like you still have the ability to do those things. So you still have the ability to choose what is good or to refuse what is good. So like say for example like if I wasn't born so broke like I probably wouldn't be the person that I am today to be real with you. Like if God would have gave me let me be born with riches and didn't allow me to like you know live through you know pew pews getting you know pulled out and all of that like just living broke.

[00:08:59]>> There's no telling the type of person that I'd be like the wickedness that I'd be in. You feel me? So like sometimes even the harder situations just shown as a mercy. That's one of the things that I learned in like going to high school. I went to high school in a predominantly white area. I don't know if you're white or not cuz the British accent makes everybody sound white to me. But >> um when I went to high school in a predominantly white area, uh I got to see that these people who grew up in even larger houses than me wasn't as close to their family. like I could go and I could talk to my mom and the smaller house kind of gave us this opportunity to be closer, right? Like we ain't have nowhere else to go. Whereas like me never having my own room gave me the opportunity to be as close to my brother as I am today because we grew up in the same room. And there were other people with bigger houses that just didn't have that luxury. It was a luxury to me cuz it was a blessing that I could have this relationship with my brother.

[00:09:59]But this is a blessing that can only or that was seen through pro poverty, >> right? Like whereas if I was blessed with more, me and my brother might not have been as close because we would have had separate rooms when I was a teenager and wanted to be left alone. I would have had that option whereas that option was taken from me because me and my brother shared a room. You feel me? Like >> Okay. Yeah. So all of these things could be permitted of being in a a situation that's um poopy, you know, the the like the cuss word for poopy.

[00:10:29]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A disadvantage. Yeah.

[00:10:31]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So uh but there's certain things that could be learned there that is edifying for your soul.

[00:10:39]>> Okay. So um you you talk about free will, but I I didn't mention before that. Let's let's take a child in the Middle East for example. they're under the impression that um their religion is the true one. Same way you are as well.

[00:10:55]>> You you may not be under the impression, you may actually think that it is the true religion without a doubt, but those children in the Middle East, they're not conscious enough to make that decision for themselves.

[00:11:10]>> Mhm. So before the um effects of war play out and they get to go to heaven or no not get to go to heaven before they die they have they don't really have that choice because they're under the impression that their religion is the one true one the same way a Muslim would be the same way a Buddhist would be. So I don't really think it's about free will because when when it comes to the case of younger people free will it's not really their free will the same way you don't choose to go to school you're under the impression that you choose to but it's because your parents want you to if you go if you get what I'm trying to say.

[00:11:56]>> Uh yeah. So, I mean, in regards to kids and stuff, like, uh, they probably not going to go to hell, uh, per se.

[00:12:05]>> Yeah. Yeah. But, but still with adults as well, like some some teenagers >> for adults, right? For teenagers, >> like God is just, so he's not ripping anybody off saying like, "Oh, like you never really had the opportunity, but I don't care that you never had the opportunity. Boom, you getting sent to hell." No. Like, you're going to be judged fairly. you're going to be judged according to what you know. Um so like say for instance if you had a a actual opportunity to like look into God's word, look into what you believe to try to verify whether or not it's true, right? And if you did that honestly and you earnestly uh are seeking out God, then obviously you know you'll be judged according to to what you know. Uh no one's getting ripped off at you know at judgment day.

[00:12:52]>> Okay. Okay. I understand that. But the the main um and I'm not I'm not trying to attack I'm trying to you know gain knowledge. So my main like problem or or question in regards that is a lot of people would argue that it's not really about judgment whether you're going to heaven or hell. It's about right now because that's all we know. So regardless of whether you're atheist or Christian or any religion you can't it's undeniable the fact that there's life.

[00:13:23]So why do some people get a shorter life than others are born into a shorter life than others or more disadvantaged life a worse life if God knew us in our in in our mother's womb?

[00:13:39]>> Yeah. I mean there's a answer that was given by one of the our church fathers in regards to specifically like infant death. Um and some so I mean long story short some people are taken early as a mercy. Um like there God knows that they be good people but given the opportunity to live longer they can make bad decisions so God >> that's a teaching that's a teaching by your church fathers. Yeah.

[00:14:07]>> Is that can you back that up uh by scripture and biblically? Well, and scripture is just going to pretty much state that like, you know, the Lord gives and the Lord takes away that he's able to take away at at any point in time. Um, that's not really a answer that's answered in in scripture.

[00:14:30]>> Yeah. So, so do you what I'm saying is do you not question that when it comes to your faith? Okay. So, let me give you an example. I mean if the if the question is answered by like our church fathers then we can take the the answer of the church fathers but like >> no but but the answer of the church fathers the problem with that is do you know what invaluable means? You know what invaluable >> Yeah.

[00:14:55]>> means.

[00:14:56]>> Yeah. So the Bible Christians claim that the Bible is is invaluable. But then there's examples of many corrupt church fathers. So one one church uh one uh congressman might say the teaching of his church father is true and correct whilst another person may say that it's not. So it's about interpretations with church fathers whereas Christians claim that the word of the bible is although can be taken interpretively is all true. So I don't think the a church father no matter how in tune they are with God has enough authority you to you know like dictate uh I mean yeah I I get what you're saying.

[00:15:53]Um, like something that is in in the Bible though is like uh I guess like the thing that you're talking about like the the quoteunquote problem that you're talking about.

[00:16:08]But um what's the name?

[00:16:13]Um, but yeah, like this is not a this is not a question necessarily that is going to be given as deep of an answer.

[00:16:23]Obviously, there's things that's going to be touched on in scripture, but um >> like and I mean it's it's talked about in Job um and it's talked about in Isaiah 57, but it just touches on it. Uh the righteous man perishes and no one lays it to heart. Devout men are taken away while no one understands. For the righteous man is taken away from calamity. He enters into peace. They rest in their beds who walk in their uprightness.

[00:16:54]>> Okay. So if if you know um in the Bible it says um only a foolish man says God doesn't exist. But a a foolish man denies facts. But not everything is covered in the Bible. Like you can't really give me an answer to this. So why would a foolish man um side with something that you know doesn't have full evidence for it, if you know what I'm trying to say.

[00:17:23]>> Well, the answer to this question isn't going to change the fact that God exists. Um like you could prove God exists from logic.

[00:17:34]>> Okay. Yeah, but that's that's what I'm saying though. you follow you follow Christianity but okay I'm I'm not saying God doesn't exist but with the argument I proposed God might exist but he might be evil if you know what I'm trying to say >> no it's impossible >> you don't know that because >> no I know that >> how >> logically speaking it would be it's like impossible for a thing to be >> a god can a god a god can be a god can be evil By all means, a god can do. See, being a god is a title, a title of power. So, I'm guessing you have another name for the Christian God, right?

[00:18:16]Yahweh.

[00:18:18]>> You Yeah. Yahweh. Um, >> no. So, like logically speaking, right?

[00:18:22]Well, one, evil is going to be a privation. It's not a substance. But, >> um, two, >> but you call him good though. Yeah.

[00:18:30]Because because when we prove that God exists, we're going to prove a being of pure actuality. That's what we mean when we say God. So >> what do you mean by that?

[00:18:40]>> This is going to refer to like a being that is pure. Well, one purely actual, but it means that it's a being that cannot change. And uh what you'll see from a being that cannot change is that he possesses all perfections. Um so if you have a >> doesn't necessarily mean good, it just does. No, but to be to be less than fully good is to lack something. And this being lacks nothing. So it would be fully good.

[00:19:07]>> So why why does he create us to need our praise?

[00:19:11]>> It well he doesn't need our praise.

[00:19:14]>> Um >> well he desires that. So >> well the reason as but the reason hold the reason as to why he wait the reason as to why he desires you to praise and worship him is not for him. It's for you. When you praise and worship, meaning that you desire that which is good, you're actually doing things that are good for you.

[00:19:36]>> These things do nothing for God. So, he's he desires you to desire that which is good and actually edifying for your spirit.

[00:19:44]>> But now you're speaking for God. You can't back that up scripturally.

[00:19:48]>> No, I I can't back this up scripturally, bro. Because it scripturally it says that your bre best righteousness is nothing but a filthy rag before the Lord.

[00:19:58]>> It says that he doesn't desire in our sacrifices. It's not the thing.

[00:20:02]>> It's not the thing that >> Yeah. that what it says that what it says that God desires is that he desires all to be saved. The way in which you're saved is aligning your will with God.

[00:20:13]Accepting the grace that he's bestowed upon you.

[00:20:16]>> This is so this does nothing for God, right? It's everything is done for us.

[00:20:23]>> Okay. Can I say something?

[00:20:26]>> Yeah.

[00:20:26]>> If if if everything is done for us, then why do people get along just fine without God? Cuz if the rain God causes the rain to fall on both the good and the bad, what's the benefit of worshiping God?

[00:20:42]>> You're aligning yourself with that which is truly good. You're fulfilling your purpose.

[00:20:49]But how do you know like what benefit does it give you?

[00:20:53]>> Cuz people it gives you it gives you salvation. It gives you the fulfillment of your purpose.

[00:21:00]>> Yeah. But like I said, that's not everybody gets to experience that because >> experience what?

[00:21:07]>> Experience the good uh the you know aligning with that truth that you're talking about.

[00:21:12]>> It's not about everybody getting to experience it. It's about it's there so that you have the possibility to experience it. Some people reject it.

[00:21:19]>> Yeah, but not everybody gets to experience.

[00:21:21]>> That's fine. Some people reject it.

[00:21:23]Everybody not being able to experience it doesn't mean that it >> just because they don't experience it doesn't mean they don't Sorry to interrupt. Just because they don't experience it doesn't mean they're rejecting it. Some of them >> don't um experience it because they're under the impression that their religion is the one true religion. this. Okay.

[00:21:45]And we can logically like disprove every other religion >> like through pure logical argumentation we could disprove Islam. Um I mean for Judaism you would use like scripture and stuff but for like Hinduism and polytheistic religions you could just logically prove that that's impossible.

[00:22:09]>> Okay. So could you give me an example for Muslim and then after that could I just touch upon that scripture real quick?

[00:22:16]>> Yeah. So I mean from a logical perspective uh one there's there's Muslims that believe that God is um like spatial and temporal that he literally exists above the throne.

[00:22:32]>> Right.

[00:22:34]>> Uh is that what you hold to?

[00:22:37]>> No. No. Because I don't I don't Okay.

[00:22:40]Okay. So, >> I just question.

[00:22:43]>> Yeah. It's a yes or no question.

[00:22:44]>> Okay. No, I don't. I don't.

[00:22:46]>> Okay. So, uh if you hold to that, like obviously that that wouldn't be able to be God. Like a spatial temporal god isn't going to be the one God that exists. So, then that would be out. But in regards to >> said some not all of them believe that.

[00:22:59]>> Yeah, that's that's fine. So in regards to Islam, right, you can disprove the pro uh like Muhammad being a true prophet and you could do that through multiple ways, but an easy way is going to be that in order to be a true prophet, you have to be able to be proven to be in continuity with the previous prophets. Muhammad cannot be proven to be in continuity with the previous prophets. Therefore, Muhammad cannot be considered a true prophet.

[00:23:24]>> Okay? So if you're talking about just because some Muslims may believe it doesn't mean it's true. Obviously I don't give any credibility to >> I mean Islam because >> because I don't believe it.

[00:23:37]>> Well all Muslims all Muslims would believe that Muhammad is a true prophet.

[00:23:42]But in order to be a true prophet we have to be able to prove that you're in continuity. And we can't prove continuity with Muhammad.

[00:23:50]>> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I'm not arguing for the existence of Muslim.

[00:23:54]Well, you asked me you asked me to just logically disprove Islam. That's just a simple logical argument.

[00:24:01]>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. I agree with you on that. Obviously, I don't know the ins and outs, but I agree with you on that.

[00:24:06]>> Mhm.

[00:24:07]>> You sound like you know what you're talking about. So, I'm not going to take your word for it. I'm going to go, you know, look it up after. But coming back to Christianity, does you said some Muslims, so I'm going to say some Christians uh literalists believe that the the um the Bible says the earth is flat.

[00:24:33]>> Yeah.

[00:24:35]>> And we know that the earth is not flat.

[00:24:36]So does that make the Bible which Christians believe is inspired by God, does that make it to be infalluable?

[00:24:46]No. So there Christians who believe that would just be incorrect. It's not like a a dogmatic teaching from the church that says >> you have to >> I know but in in the scripture it says that >> it doesn't say that.

[00:24:58]>> No. Well, it it could be interpreted as that.

[00:25:02]>> That's fine. It like there's things that could be interpreted a million and one different ways, which is one of the reasons as to why like the authority of the church fathers is important. But um >> but it's not it's not an acute an acute interpretation. It's like >> many people argue that >> the Bible was you know being you know literal and it's like >> can I can I pull the scripture up for you? No, it it doesn't matter. Like you can this isn't a matter of salvation, right? So like you can believe that the earth is flat and still be saved. That doesn't matter in regards to but it comes to it comes to the problem of what do you interpret as literal and metaphorical in the Bible >> and that's going to be that's going to be able to be fleshed out by the church.

[00:25:48]Right? But in regards to Islam, I'm talking about the the nature of their deity, right? The nature of God itself.

[00:25:56]If the nature of God itself is is going to show to not be the one God that we know exists through logical argumentation, then your religion is false. That's what I'm talking about.

[00:26:07]I'm not talking about, you know, very, you know, specific doctrines. I'm saying, oh, the Quran says that you need to believe in God, Allah, and his messenger. Okay? So you have to believe like when you recite your shahada, you're saying that you believe in God and you believe that Muhammad is a messenger of God, >> right? So if you can disprove that Muhammad is a messenger of God, that's literally in their shahada. Like that like you can't even say that statement.

[00:26:40]>> What you're saying is they're both they it comes as a package. So if you have to believe in both, if you don't believe in one, then you can't believe in the other.

[00:26:48]>> Yeah. But I mean in Islam. Yeah.

[00:26:51]>> Okay. So, um, what about, so you weren't necessarily able to answer about people being born disadvantaged and whatnot, but >> I thought I answered that.

[00:27:06]>> Yeah, I know. But you you didn't really you didn't really answer it cuz >> I mean, I thought I Yeah, I thought I thought I told you that oh, there people are sometimes born in different uh situations for the edification of their soul. when I gave you the analogy of like my high school and me growing up poor and everything like that.

[00:27:25]>> Yeah. But I what I'm saying is they don't necessarily like I'll say it again. You don't choose what you're born into. So are people that are being punished for what they don't choose to be born into?

[00:27:39]>> Who's being who's these people that's being punished? Okay, let's let me take a Middle Eastern uh girl for example in war, right?

[00:27:53]She so she may be praying to Allah cuz she's a Muslim and a Christian might say, "Well, she's praying to the wrong God, which is why her prayers are not being answered." But that's not her fault, >> brother. the the answer of your prayers doesn't have to come in the way in which you desire it to come. Like for example, this is a story of a a guy who had cancer and he was dying and he was praying for God to heal him and he died and when he died God said you prayed for healing now you have the ultimate healing.

[00:28:30]>> Now for story that's that's not an actual like factual story that's just like an analogy. No, that's actually that's something that happened to me personally.

[00:28:40]>> Um, >> wait, so you died and then God told me >> No, my grandfather was the one that had cancer and our family was praying for healing and then this was revealed afterwards.

[00:28:50]>> Um, >> to who? To who though?

[00:28:52]>> Me.

[00:28:54]>> So, since it's a personal experience, you can't teach about it cuz it's personal.

[00:28:59]>> I don't know where you got that from. I don't know where you got that from, but >> Well, it it's it's a personal teaching.

[00:29:05]So it it's a sorry it's a personal experience. So you can't really use your personal experience because someone could easily say no.

[00:29:15]>> Well no I'm telling like I'm arguing for it cuz someone could easily tell you well no it hasn't happened to me so until it happens to me that that's that's not true. You're literally trying to use other people's stories like a Middle Eastern girl who went through whatever and you saying because you weren't raped by somebody older than you, we can't use that.

[00:29:40]That's dumb.

[00:29:42]>> No, cuz you you you know that that's happening though is what I'm saying. You know, you can't deny that those >> I don't I don't know who you're talking about.

[00:29:52]>> Okay. You can't deny that those types of things happen.

[00:30:00]>> Okay. Like, how do you know that the things that I'm talking about don't happen?

[00:30:05]>> Yeah. Because you're claiming it's a a spiritual um uh uh a spiritual experience, which is a gray area. But my what I'm saying is >> a gray area >> because not everybody knows if the spiritual exists.

[00:30:20]If you if you don't know whether or not God exists, we can literally just give an argument for the existence of God.

[00:30:27]>> But does that prove the existence of >> Yes, it proves the existence of God.

[00:30:32]>> But then there's arguments that disprove it as well. So >> no, there's no argument that that disprove it, right?

[00:30:38]Like even even the problem of >> the problem of suffering tries to work backwards.

[00:30:45]So there's arguments for the big bang.

[00:30:51]>> Now there's logical arguments, logical proofs for the existence of God. I don't know if you know what a logical argument is, but in logical argumentation, if each of the premises is true and like the structure is valid and when I say the structure of the argument, it just means that all the premises follow to the conclusion. If all the premises are true, then the conclusion is necessarily true.

[00:31:16]>> Like for example, if I say that all men are mortal, >> Socrates is a man, therefore Socrates is mortal, right? If all of those premises are true, then the conclusion is necessarily true.

[00:31:30]>> Not really. Because then, let's say I flipped a coin twice and I got heads, doesn't that that doesn't fit your argument. That doesn't mean there's a 100% chance I got heads. It just means there's a 100% chance until I flip tails.

[00:31:43]>> No. Oh my god. If you flipped a coin twice and you and it landed on heads and then you say if I flip this coin then it will land on heads.

[00:31:53]>> Mhm.

[00:31:54]>> Right. Um listen I the the coin I I don't I don't even know how to to make this. If I flip this coin then it will land on heads or every time I flip the coin it lands on heads. Um, I don't even know how to make that into a logical argument, bro. But, um, wasn't it like all you're saying is that if the premises are true, then the conclusion is necessarily true. That's it.

[00:32:22]>> So, what are you saying?

[00:32:24]>> That's what I That's what I'm saying.

[00:32:25]I'm saying if the premises are true, then the conclusion necessarily follows.

[00:32:30]We're not giving a probabilistic argument.

[00:32:35]But you're saying that you're you said that Socrates is a man.

[00:32:40]Socrates is mortal and all men are mortal.

[00:32:47]But then isn't isn't Jesus immortal?

[00:32:49]That's what I'm trying to like get at.

[00:32:56]>> Hello.

[00:32:58]>> Yeah. Just give me one sec, bro.

[00:33:04]I'm saying cuz we know all men are mortal.

[00:33:11]>> Okay. So if I say >> Mhm.

[00:33:15]>> If it is raining and the ground is what?

[00:33:20]>> Yeah.

[00:33:21]>> It is raining.

[00:33:23]>> Yeah.

[00:33:24]>> Therefore the ground is wet.

[00:33:27]>> Yeah.

[00:33:28]>> Okay. So those first two statements are what's called premises.

[00:33:34]>> Yeah.

[00:33:34]>> All right. So if premise one is correct >> and premise 2 is correct, >> then necessarily the conclusion is correct.

[00:33:46]That's that's it. That's called a logical argument.

[00:33:50]>> So what premises would you give to prove that God is correct?

[00:33:56]>> That God exists.

[00:33:57]>> Ex exists. Sorry.

[00:33:59]>> Yeah. So, I would give something like the argument from motion cuz it just it gives you the most.

[00:34:08]>> Um, hey, you wanted to to come up? They have me run the argument all the time, bro.

[00:34:15]Feel free.

[00:34:18]>> No, I just wanted to come up just to be here.

[00:34:20]>> No, go ahead, bro.

[00:34:24]>> No, you got it.

[00:34:25]>> Oh my days. So the argument for motion is going to state that change exists.

[00:34:34]Okay.

[00:34:36]>> Okay.

[00:34:37]>> And by change we mean something goes from potential to actual.

[00:34:42]>> From what it could be to what it actually is. That's what change is.

[00:34:46]Okay.

[00:34:47]>> Mhm.

[00:34:48]>> But a potential can't actualize itself.

[00:34:52]Like a pot of water can't make itself hot. can't give itself something that it doesn't already have.

[00:34:59]>> But I can do >> you could do what?

[00:35:06]>> Like I could put it in something to make it hot.

[00:35:09]>> And that's the point, right? So that means that whatever changes is changed by something else.

[00:35:15]>> Okay. So then why is God not So is does that mean that God >> whatever he does? All that means right there is that whatever changes is changed by something else. That's it.

[00:35:26]That's all that means.

[00:35:28]>> We're we're action.

[00:35:30]>> So whatever action God's whatever action God makes is done by something else. No.

[00:35:37]>> Let's how about let's let's try not to jump and let's focus on what's being said right now.

[00:35:43]>> Okay.

[00:35:44]>> Okay. So >> okay.

[00:35:46]>> All that means is that whatever changes is changed by something else. Now this leads to a chain of actualizers where each thing in this chain depends on the previous member right now for its actuality. So >> for example, this leads to a chain of actualizers. You could think of it like um an extension cord, me plugging my phone into a charger that's plugged into an extension cord, okay? that's plugged into another extension cord. These are like the chain of actualizers. Okay?

[00:36:25]>> Now, an infinite chain of such actualizers is impossible.

[00:36:32]>> Um because if there was no first actualizer, then nothing would be actualized.

[00:36:39]>> But things are actualized.

[00:36:42]Therefore, there must be a first actualizer.

[00:36:49]Do you understand or you want me to break anything down?

[00:36:53]>> Okay. Okay. No, I I understand what you're saying. So, >> okay.

[00:36:57]>> So, then that means God is the first actualizer.

[00:37:02]>> Yeah. So, this first actualizer >> must not be changed by anything external to it, but is purely actual, >> not itself changed by anything else. A being that is purely actual is what we mean when we say God.

[00:37:23]Therefore, God exists.

[00:37:27]>> But not necessarily the Christian God is what I'm trying to get at.

[00:37:31]>> Okay. So, let's let's slow down. Okay.

[00:37:35]>> Okay.

[00:37:36]>> So, now you understand that God exists.

[00:37:43]>> Yeah. Somewhat. Yeah.

[00:37:45]>> Okay. So a being that is purely actual is omnipotent, omnisient and all good.

[00:37:54]>> Mhm.

[00:37:56]>> So you believe in a being that is omnipotent, omnisient, and all good.

[00:38:05]Well, okay.

[00:38:08]Yeah. Can I can I say something or for the sake of, you know, fluidity?

[00:38:14]Yeah.

[00:38:16]>> So if he's all good, then if he's created us knowing that we would be sinful.

[00:38:25]>> So you understand that now you have to understand this world through the lens of what we just proved logically. So if we could just prove logically that there is a god that exists that is omnipotent, omnisient and all good >> then now we have to figure out how we can understand the world around us.

[00:38:45]>> So if you're saying >> a way to understand not necessarily the or not just Christianity but other religions as well.

[00:38:55]>> Well yeah Christianity is going to have the only explanation for these things but that's not that's not the the point.

[00:39:02]That doesn't just prove just because we have an explanation to like the problem of evil doesn't mean that we're that like we're automatically true. There has to be evidence for Christianity.

[00:39:17]>> Okay. All right.

[00:39:19]>> So now you believe that there's a God that is good, that's all powerful, that's all knowing. Cool. Right. Now you need to figure out um oh also a being being purely actual there can't be more than one purely actual being. So there's only one of these gods and it's you know all these things immaterial immutable eternal it's all these things.

[00:39:45]>> Okay. So a quick question cuz I have to leave right soon. I'm sure >> this always happens that when when it gets to the point to where we see that God exists, you know, time just creeps up on us. But was that >> No, no, no. I'm not running away. I genuinely >> I believe you. I believe you.

[00:40:02]>> Yeah. Yeah. So, um I I've not come in here with the intention of, you know, like attacking. I just want to ask questions >> with an open mind. Um and your what's it called? Uh I think uh what's it called? The theory of motion.

[00:40:23]>> The argument from motion.

[00:40:24]>> Yeah. Yeah. Uh I think it made it made sense of of there being a god. Um, so if so back to Christianity, um, if God is all knowing and he knows that we're going to be sinful before he created us, then why create us? Doesn't that not make him all all loving?

[00:40:50]>> Oh, I mean, if he creates us, my friend name is Jordan Travis. He has a beautiful paper on this.

[00:41:00]>> Um, but >> is it public though?

[00:41:04]>> No, it's not public.

[00:41:06]>> But just because God knows how we're going to mess ourselves up, that doesn't stop him from creating us because he also knows how he can fix it.

[00:41:19]So because he knows that he has the solution to the problem that we make for ourselves, he doesn't like allow our mistakes to prevent him from creating us again.

[00:41:33]Okay. So again, I'm not attacking. I'm just trying to make sense of it. But does but not everyone gets that solution.

[00:41:43]So wouldn't it be safer not to create anyone?

[00:41:47]>> Nah. But not everyone, you know, gets gets to be a part of that fix or solution that he has.

[00:41:54]>> No, that wouldn't No, cuz then you're just saying that like the like creation is a overflow of God's goodness, right?

[00:42:04]>> So to um to allow us to exist is a good thing.

[00:42:12]And you know, it's not necessary, but I mean it still is a good thing. But for God to, you know, allow us to exist and and things like that or not to allow us to exist purely based on the decisions of some people like No, it's not.

[00:42:30]>> But some people only exist and feel pain.

[00:42:36]>> That's that's fine. That's temporary.

[00:42:41]>> Like do you think of >> But then there's no there's no guarantee of heaven. So people with what they know. Like you've explained to me how through the motion the the argument of motion that God exists, but that doesn't prove heaven and hell are real. That's still attached to religion.

[00:43:03]>> Yeah. And then we could prove that religion through like history, historical arguments, >> but it's not necessarily proof. But um Yeah.

[00:43:13]>> No, it's it's proof. Like if Jesus actually rose from the dead, then Christianity is true and we could show that Jesus rose from the dead historically.

[00:43:25]So then Christianity would be true.

[00:43:28]>> Okay. All right.

[00:43:32]>> All right.

[00:43:35]>> All right. But you got to go.

[00:43:37]Uh well um I want to ask you one more thing and then I won't I won't you know ask any more questions beyond that. I'll let you speak and then I'll just go. Um cuz this is just for my knowledge. Um could you show me the texts where like any you know proof that God raised from the dead?

[00:44:00]>> Yeah.

[00:44:01]>> Jesus. Jesus.

[00:44:03]>> Yeah. So, you just want resources or you want like the early documents that say this?

[00:44:10]>> Uh, I just Yeah, resources and documents that I can read on and then stop.

[00:44:17]So, I mean, I I don't know how much you you read, but there's a um there's a book, The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus >> or The Case for Christ or Cold Case Christianity.

[00:44:36]Um all of these are going to be books that are going to just talk about the evidence of Christianity. But um you could look at this video uh I I like this video cuz it's easy to follow and it's only 30 minutes.

[00:44:56]But uh this video here infographics was Jesus actually resurrected. It kind of gives an unbiased approach to the history like the historical evidence of the resurrection. M >> it kind of gives a real unbiased approach like 30 minutes and you could just sit there and watch because I'm I don't I'm not expecting everybody to go and actually read.

[00:45:20]>> Is that a Christian channel?

[00:45:22]>> No >> it's not it's non-Christian some of them videos before.

[00:45:28]>> Yeah, it's not.

[00:45:29]>> Yeah, that's actually what made me a Christian was that video.

[00:45:31]>> It's not it's not a Christian channel, but they they do a good job in presenting like the argument.

[00:45:39]Um, >> so >> all right.

[00:45:41]>> And they give like the arguments against the argument.

[00:45:45]>> Um, okay.

[00:45:46]>> So like if you wanted to just watch one video, >> they do oversimplify. Just know there's a lot more like information than was presented in that video.

[00:45:54]>> Yeah.

[00:45:55]>> Okay. Um, and then last last question.

[00:45:58]Um, do you know the the touring of whatever whatever?

[00:46:03]>> Yeah, the shining. That's a blanket.

[00:46:06]Yeah. What's up?

[00:46:09]I'm just I'm just asking what uh cred like what credibility that holds so I can just you know look at it. The shot of Turan has a lot of uh credibility, but it's not what like Christians hang their faith on. Like if something came out and was like, "Oh, the shot of Turan was fake." Like nothing about the Christian faith would change. But the shot of Turan actually does lend to a lot more evidence of this burial and resurrection of of Jesus that places this imprint into the shroud that people can't understand today. like how this thing happens, how this three-dimensional imprint that exists like just on the fibers um exist on this shroud like we don't have the technology today to replicate it and it's been dated to be in Jerusalem from 2,000 years ago, >> right? Um so it's looking it's it's >> Yeah, they they've done a new >> before Jesus.

[00:47:13]>> No. Oh, well almost to that first century Jerusalem is when they dated it.

[00:47:19]Um, so it's looking to be the actual burial cloth that you could see the like the scars of the crown of thorns, the piercing in the side, the holes in the hands and the feet, the scorging on the back. You could tell that this is a a badly badly beaten man. But this imprint, it seems as though that there was this ridiculous burst of light that happens after he's buried that um that gets imprinted on this cloth somehow. And the way how it happens, it's like if it it doesn't make sense.

[00:47:59]It doesn't make sense how it happens.

[00:48:01]Um, like it's a very like what Solola said, very quick burst of light that imprints this image on the the shroud.

[00:48:14]>> Okay. All right. No problem. All right.

[00:48:16]Thank you for clarifying a few stuff.

[00:48:18]I'll do my research and then I'll probably join you >> next Yeah, like Wednesday, >> whichever. It doesn't matter. Anytime.