ICP NEWS + PASSIVE INCOME REVOLUTION | MaxFi & Snuggle Dev AMA

Added: 2026-05-09

[00:00:00]All right, guys. Big stuff is going on.

[00:00:01]ICP is actually pumping today. And I got Alex on for a reason. He is one of the well-known, most well-known devs. He's absolute genius. He's the guy behind DeFi [clears throat] buddy, which is used by tens of thousands of people in DeFi. He's the guy who's made SnuggleFi and MaxFi. And by the way, SnuggleFi, MaxFi, exploding growth is phenomenal.

[00:00:23]So, we want to talk to them about ICP, about what's going on there, about Caffeine AI. Get a real dev. A lot of people talking, yapping out here, but we don't hear from a real dev. I want to hear from a real dev about what it is.

[00:00:36]We want to also talk about what's going on with Max 5, about the new pools, new chains coming agent Max. And last and for all, we're going to talk about UIG, which is a question I got. So, a lot to cover. Alex, before you say anything, Alex, I want to show you this because you have a lot of explaining to do and then we're going to talk about ICP.

[00:00:56]Okay, this is crazy, guys. Look at this.

[00:00:58]Look at this growth.

[00:01:00]>> I haven't seen growth like this. This is Snuggle and Maxi, the total TVL. Tell me what is going on. [laughter] >> Well, thank you first off for having me on your show again. It's always a pleasure and it is very exciting times right now. As you just pointed out, Snuggle and Maxi is blowing up everywhere at the moment.

[00:01:24]This is all organic growth. We have done zero paid marketing and our TVL is doubling month over month still and we are now over $727,000 and we're seeing hundreds of thousands of dollars coming in every week now as people are >> using it and making a lot of money >> and then telling their friends about it.

[00:01:49]So, it's really super exciting for me to see this and the reception in our communities on Discord has been amazing.

[00:01:58]People are very excited about this. So, I'm very excited, too. And um >> yeah, man, it's it's just been wonderful.

[00:02:07]>> Yeah, a lot of a lot of people ask me if I'm being paid by Snuggle or MaxFi, and no, I'm a co-founder with Alex of MaxFi.

[00:02:16]He runs Snuggle by himself. So, no. So there is literally no marketing. There is none.

[00:02:22]>> Yeah.

[00:02:22]>> You know, like we're it we are the we we're the ones that are evangelizing everyone. We're telling everyone about it and it's um and it's exactly like what Alex said. Like literally people go in there, they put a couple hundred dollars in there, a couple thousand dollars in there, they see it's making money. And like I think today was a monster inflow day. This was like holy cow $93,000 today. I mean, that's one day and you can see like week over week, every week, you know, now it's I think it's 130,000 this week. It was 120,000 last week. It's just it's just going up and up and up and um >> yeah, >> I mean it's unbelievable. And it's unbelievable because I I show everyone my account all the time. Like >> it's amazing.

[00:03:11]>> I made $7,000 in about 74 days now. Um, I mean, I even compounded some money today. Like, you can't do this anywhere else, guys. We're going to talk about why you can't do anything. But I want to talk about ICP real quick before we go there. Because like, >> for example, I just made this pool today from my rewards. I didn't put any money in. I added a new arrow, which is a drrome because this is basically, for those of you that don't know, this is basically like farming uh like on unis swap or aeromer or pancake swap. That's all this is. We're just farming these positions. And I literally go and I take my rewards and I compounded my rewards.

[00:03:52]I'm earning another 250%.

[00:03:55]You know, and it doesn't sound like a lot, two two bucks a day, but two bucks a day is like $700 a year. So, like over enough time and you can keep compounding these rewards. Um, I don't know what to say. This is this works and you can't really do this anywhere else. Um can you explain what the snuggle technology is so people can really understand it? I think it's really important because you have created a revolutionary system here.

[00:04:24]>> So snuggle technology is the most capital efficient system for managing concentrated liquidity positions on the major decentralized exchanges like unis swap, aerodyome and pancake swap. And the reason it's so capital efficient is because I have created a way on chain to do what is called a snuggle rebalance where if you have a concentrated liquidity range that you're providing liquidity on and you're earning trading fees in this range when the price goes out of your range and you no longer are earning fees. What we used to have to do manually was swap our tokens and create a new position up here. So, we're earning again. But when we make that big jump, first off, we get hit with massive and permanent loss. And on top of that, we have to pay swap fees, slippage, price impact, MEV extraction, and about 50% more in permanent loss compared to just doing a snuggle rebalance where we only move the range up next to the price and then the price naturally comes back in. There is zero swaps involved. This is a no swap or a zero swap protocol.

[00:05:43]And not only is it the most capital efficient way to do this, it's the most secure way to do this because 70 or 80% of the exploits out here happen during a swap transaction.

[00:05:55]You can't exploit any swaps here. There are no swaps involved. And that's why the security auditors have said this is one of the most secure protocols they've ever seen because our attack vector is so small, let alone how capital efficient it is. So, it has just been phenomenal seeing people find new strategies like you're doing and figuring out strategies that work best for them on the pairs that they like. I see you've got a Bitcoin and USDC position. And I saw some ETH and USDC positions here. Very blue chip stuff.

[00:06:31]And you've also got some altcoins and >> even some DGEN positions down below.

[00:06:36]>> I got everything.

[00:06:38]>> And this technology works on all these pairs and it works so well especially on you know um like these higher uh fee tier pools like um >> I love this one.

[00:06:52]>> I love this one. Cardano and Bitcoin very correlated token. So very few rebalances. You can run a tight range on this. When it does rebalance, it barely moves your range and you keep earning.

[00:07:05]>> What what's so incredible about this Cardono pool and Bitcoin pool? You guys want to know? I put in $740 25 days ago. So, I've had very little impermanent loss and all the $74 has hit my account because on aerodrome it can't compound even though we have compound enabled because you get all the tokens in uh the arrow token. So, I've basically earned $75 in 25 days. Let's say I earn $80 a month. Let's say actually it'll be a little bit more.

[00:07:37]Let's say $85 a month. I have a way to earn $85 every single month. over $1,000 in a year and and this pool is hopefully going to stay very stable. It's going to stay right here or close to it like maybe $700, $600 and it'll just print money. [clears throat] People don't understand. People are like, "How is how is Snuggle Maxy going up so much the TVL?" Well, this is it.

[00:08:05]I'm showing you in my own account why it's going up. There is nowhere else you can make this kind of money without being in a memecoin or a DJ trade where you will lose your money. 90 we showed 95% of traders lose money. 95% of uh memecoin guys lose money. We get your returns but over a period of time you know it's not one of those like but it's every month every day every week we earn and we make and we can take those gains and we can compound them and make even more like real wealth make real wealth and and this is why there's so much money flooding into uh Max Fine Snuggle.

[00:08:44]It's been incredible to see and thank you so much for um reaching out to me early on when you saw the technology I created with Snuggle and you convinced me to create Maxify with you. And for anybody wondering, I run all development. I manage all the smart contracts myself. All that stuff is me, but all of the strategies and the pairs and the huge community that's growing around Maxfi is all thanks to Dow King here. um he has been documenting his journey and helping hundreds and hundreds of people figure out how to use these systems, thousands of people now, and figuring out the way to take this tool I've created, these smart contracts that I control, that I security audit, and I I'm spending all my time doing development and security audits. That that's a full-time job. I don't have time to um teach all of this stuff which you have done which I thank you so much >> for documenting all your strategies, your portfolio, showing the results you're getting. And the cool thing is your results have only been improving the better you get with the tool. And you're on the frontier. You're pioneering new pairs and new strategies on these pairs.

[00:10:07]So, the community gets this huge benefit from you kind of trailblazing this new technology on all these different pairs and documenting it and saying, "Hey, this strategy seems to work really well on this pair. Try it out. Let's compare results." And that community effect that you've created on MaxFi, especially in that Discord server, it's such a wealth of information has, I think, been a huge uh part of the growth of the whole Snuggle ecosystem. Snuggle and MaxFi are just growing day over day. It's snowballing. It's going so fast. And as other people are mimicking your results and some people are doing even better than you, >> they are >> like some people are really crushing it and they're sharing how they're doing it. Um, other people are seeing those results and trying it out. And most people start out with like a hundred, 500, 1,000 bucks and they're like, "This is incredible." And after a few weeks, they scale in and then they start making some really serious cash flow for themselves. And Snuggle and Maxi handle all the work. Basically, all you have to do is figure out what pairs you want to do it on and what strategies you want to run on those pairs. So I take the lower level decisions and execution layer completely off the table for those users. They don't even have to worry about those technical details anymore.

[00:11:33]They can now think about the bigger picture. What assets do I want to have exposure to? What strategies do I want to run on these assets? And then they can focus on the real optimizations that make them the most amount of money over months and years while all of the manual intervention that goes on with rebalancing this stuff in the most capital efficient way possible is handled by the system that I've designed. So thank you man. You your results are incredible.

[00:12:03]>> I appreciate you man. Thanks for the kind words. I mean uh you you created it. I mean the first time I saw this you showed it to me. I was like, "Oh my god, this is revolutionary." Uh I saw I saw the genius behind it and thanks for bringing me on this ride because uh we can bring this revolutionary technology to thousands and thousands of more people and get them to use this instead of going into these meme coins instead of going to hyperlquid and losing all their money. Um, I think it's very important for crypto to survive if because people aren't going to survive in crypto. If 95% of the people lose their money on NFTTS, on trading, on memecoins, we're not going to survive.

[00:12:45]We need to give people something. This is like becoming Goldman Sachs or Jane Street. You are being paid to be the liquidity maker. That's what they do. be be be the guys that get paid every single day from Visa from the fees from from other people's activity and unless we do this unless we get more and more people into projects like this I mean it's not really a project this is a tool to a tool like this you know crypto is not going to have the future we want it to have so that was my concern and you have fixed it >> thanks man I I solved this problem for myself initially a long time ago and I was the only person using this technology because it saved me about 10 hours of time each week that I actually wanted to put towards building DeFi buddy. I'm like, man, I I'm spending 10 hours a week managing my my liquidity positions manually. How can I get that time back?

[00:13:46]So, I built Snuggle and I used it for a long time just by myself and saved myself all that time that I could put towards developing Defi Buddy.

[00:13:54]>> And it saved me so much time. And after many months of using it, I realized my results were so much better than I was getting even doing these same techniques manually. So, not only was I saving time, but I was making more money.

[00:14:13]>> Need more.

[00:14:14]>> And it was completely hands off. All I had to think about is what pairs do I like? I like Bitcoin. I like USDC. I like Ethereum. I'll provide liquidity on those pairs.

[00:14:26]>> I'll run a tighter range than usual because I'm doing snuggle rebalancing.

[00:14:29]It's very capital efficient. No swaps involved.

[00:14:32]>> And I just saw that that I was making more money than I had ever been before as a liquidity provider, a market maker, as you put it.

[00:14:41]>> Market maker. Yeah. And then folks like you and a couple other, you know, close friends in the DeFi space said, "You really need to make this tool publicly available."

[00:14:52]So, I went through and I got a bunch of uh security audits and everything and I made sure, you know, this was ready to take to the public. And now it's here and people are getting even better results than I was getting because there are a lot of people out here smarter than me and they might be able to figure out a better way to use this tool I've created than even me. So I'm seeing results from folks like you uh like this one guy in the community, Cryptolosing >> Killing it, dude.

[00:15:26]>> Killing it.

[00:15:27]>> He's making so much money.

[00:15:29]>> It's It's insane. He's making I don't even He's got like what five grand in there. He's making like 150 a day or something.

[00:15:36]>> Something like that. It's It's nuts.

[00:15:38]>> It's a crazy yield. And And he's using your Russian doll strategy which is you take literally um you know you'll take a 3% a 5% 8% a 10% a 15% 20% all these different ranges because you know you can get different ranges. You could come learn. We have all learn section. and he basically collectively he's just making a pile of money and he's splitting his risk on that pool across all the different ranges.

[00:16:05]>> Yeah, >> it's kind of >> it it's incredible. Like his results are amazing and it's um it's so cool to see really because before I was sitting here watching my own positions do this and I didn't have anyone to really share it with. And now I get to share it with thousands of people who are using this tool.

[00:16:30]>> Um, >> and like I said, a lot of them are getting even better results than me.

[00:16:36]>> Wow.

[00:16:37]>> Because they get to spend more time thinking about the big picture, like what kind of strategies do I want to run? Do I do I want to run the Russian doll strategy or do I just want to go really tight or really wide like >> and which which pools are printing more right now. So they they can now spend more time researching the markets like, "Hey, this token's doing really well and I see a trend. Maybe I can apply this strategy to make the most out of what I see." So, you and Cryptolo and dozens of other people in the community that are sharing their strategies are figuring out ways to really maximize this tool.

[00:17:24]>> Um, I want to bring up one more thing and then we got to talk about ICP because ICP is blowing up right now.

[00:17:30]>> It's going nuts right now. Yeah, >> we got to talk about it. But I want to bring up one thing. You see how many rebalances I have there? 2,276.

[00:17:39]>> I can this up to Alex.

[00:17:42]>> That would be a full-time job to run 41 positions.

[00:17:47]>> 2,476 rebalances and I did the calculations during one of my other uh shows. I was talking about this account would have zero money in it because all your money is going to fees. It would be it would be dwindled down. This is such a revolutionary tech. This is why I'm trying to get everyone on it because I'm like, you guys don't understand the no swap is so big. It's because every time you swap, it's like a tax. So like it's it's literally like a tax. You're paying a anywhere from a 0.25 to 1%. Imagine how much money do you think you'll have left over even at a 0.25% every time you do a swap at [clears throat] 2,000 times. And some of these pools are 1%.

[00:18:30]meaning we are the only ones that will make money in these pools because if you have money in these pools and you're manually managing it, well, guess what?

[00:18:37]You're paying us every time you reset your pools. You're paying us. So, we're just we're doing things no one else can do and you got to get in this now because I I don't know like how much longer we're going to be before everyone finds out. That's the key, right? But anyways, >> so it's so cool to see your principal amount in these positions preserving their value unlike any other system because like you pointed out each one of those rebalances not only does it take a lot of time like you that this would have been impossible to do manually even if you did this full-time there's no way you could do it but every rebalance on other platforms, there's there is going to be a swap involved. And those hidden costs of the swap come out of the principle. They come out of the principle of the position.

[00:19:35]>> I'm I'm sorry to cut you off, but look at this position. $741. I think originally I had $750 in here. 74 days, I've made $400 off this position. This is a deep USD position, guys. This is insanity.

[00:19:52]insanity.

[00:19:55]>> You don't get anywhere else.

[00:19:58]>> And like like you just showed that that amount of um rebalancing is impossible to do manually. Like you would have to sit there in front of your computer all day every day and to do it the oldfashioned way. Each one of those transa transactions would take you 10 20 minutes. Um it's just not feasible. So, I'm like, how do I automate this to get my time back? And then, how do I cut out all of those hidden costs, the swap fees, the if you're on another rebalancing system, they charge a protocol fee on your principal.

[00:20:35]>> That can be like a half a percent rebalance per rebalance. And that's not including like on like a 1% pool.

[00:20:43]>> That's a 1% swap fee. So that's right on on a $1,000 position, they're charging 1% on $500 to swap half the tokens. So you're paying essentially half a percent of your entire position just on the swap fee from the DEX plus uh let's say a half a percent on a protocol fee on another rebalancer. But then on the swap, you're not just getting hit with those two fees, you're getting hit with slippage on the trade.

[00:21:13]As you've seen, most uh most swapping tools have slippage settings where you only allow a half a percent max slippage. Sometimes you have to increase that because the slippage is even higher. You have to increase it to 1% slippage or 2% slippage just to get your transaction to go through on the swap.

[00:21:33]That's another half a percent or 1% you're paying on the principle of your position. Plus, there's price impact on the pool. If you're in a less liquid pool with lower uh TVL and you try to swap a thousand dollars, you might actually move the price significantly and you're trying to sell one token uh and you're basically moving the price on your own um your own swap >> and you're losing money that way, too.

[00:22:01]So, you're losing from the slippage, you're losing from the price impact.

[00:22:05]Then on top of that, you have MEV extraction. You have these arbitrage bots and you have extractors on the blockchain that can frontr run your transactions and say, "Hey, this person's about to swap this much money.

[00:22:19]Let's open a position right before they do. They you swap, you move the price, and then they sell right after you do."

[00:22:25]All in the same block. And they extract even more value from you. And we've seen those exploits take thousands of dollars away from people just on a swap transaction. So by not doing a swap, we completely eliminate MEV bots from extracting value from your rebalancing, which traditionally used to be done with swaps. So, if you were on another rebalancer and you got hit by a MEV bot, well, that thing tried to auto rebalance and auto swap your position, you could lose a few percentage points off of your position's principle. So, let's say you tried to rebalance with $1,000. At the end of that one rebalance event, you could be down 10, 20 bucks or more on your principal. You might now only have $980.

[00:23:15]That's not even factoring in what we all struggle with out here as liquidity providers, which is impermanent loss, which is still a factor in Snuggle and MaxFi. But we drastically reduce that by about 50% thanks to the Snuggle rebalancing technique.

[00:23:32]So all of those things combined, you are saving multiple percentage points per rebalance event plus all that time. And that's why this isn't possible anywhere else. And I I challenge people to go try it. Try the strategies here on another platform that has autorebalancing and you will witness the principle of your position just get obliterated in just a couple rebalances like a a dozen rebalances. Your position will be eaten alive. And this is a way that I have figured out to preserve the principle of our users positions as long as possible where they only have to now navigate impermanent loss and a much less amount of impermanent loss than they would otherwise. Now, I know that's kind of a technical explanation, but we have learning resources here. Test it out yourself and you will see what I mean.

[00:24:30]It's absolutely gamechanging and you really can't go back to any other platform after you've tried using this.

[00:24:35]And that's why we see all of this money flowing into Snuggle and Max Buy and it's not leaving.

[00:24:42]People have figured out >> they're making money. Why would you leave? You're making more money you'll make anywhere else. You'll if you know what to do conservatively, you'll double your money every year. That's on the conservative end. Yeah, >> you know, you if you if you want to be really really conservative, >> you could probably make 50 to 70%. And have your principal barely move >> very do a really wide range. Do like a 50% 60% range. Go really really wide mix of tokens.

[00:25:16]Imagine I mean, you know, telling someone you could have make 60% 70% and there's no tax on this. There's no swap fees on this. You can get access to your money. You don't have to wait. I mean, and then every time you do a rebalance or swap, you don't have to pay a fee.

[00:25:33]It's It's gold. We You gave people gold.

[00:25:36]But anyways, let's go to the next piece of gold. We're going to go to ICP because I think there's I I think I'm realizing why ICP is up. I I was trying to figure it out. This literally happened while we're on um this call before we started this call. We're trying to figure out what the hell is going on. Wow.

[00:25:54]>> This is it. But the open cloud on ICP, this is the the cloud engine has launched on ICP and I think that is what has caused ICP price. You can kind of see here.

[00:26:09]>> I mean IP. Okay. So a lot of people don't understand ICP gets a lot of FUD. maybe too much fun in [laughter] in my opinion, but when we're getting to a point in ICP and and I wanted to bring you on as a dev who really understands these things at the next level. We're getting to a point in ICP where they have caffeine AI, they have the cloud engine, they have all of these things that are launching. This is the hype that took it just a few months ago or was it last year sometime? Let me see. Uh to $9 out of nowhere. literally went from two something to $9. I believe one of these pumps on ICP people will realize its greatness and it won't stop at $9. It won't stop at $10. It won't stop at $20. It will just keep ripping.

[00:27:00]Let me see where that was so we can understand. There it is right there. You see right there?

[00:27:06]>> Yeah, >> it literally went from 288. Oh, sorry.

[00:27:10]That was the other time it did that.

[00:27:12]Hold on. It's not multiple times. 290 and it went to in November of 25 over $9 almost $10. Okay. And this was on the backs of the hype of um uh Caffeine AI and Caffeine AI hasn't even fully launched yet. Still in beta.

[00:27:33]So what I I want people to understand something with the cloud engine with Caffeine AI and you can go to opencloud.org.

[00:27:42]I know we haven't looked at any of the stuff yet ourselves. Um, but this is a new cloud engine on ICP cloud open cloud on ICP people. And then there's a pricing node providers. I mean people don't understand all the things that are going to be built on ICP. They just don't understand. They don't understand.

[00:28:04]And I wanted to bring you in and say, can you give us an understanding of what you think? I know there's rapid. I know there's lovable. What do you think Caffeine AI is going to do? Do you think it can compete against those? Do you think people will flock to it in any serious numbers? Because that's really what is need needed to get ICP from where it is now, which is a ridiculously low price to 20, 30, 40, $50, $100. I wanted to get an insider view. What do you think, Alex?

[00:28:37]>> I think it absolutely could. There are some incredible benefits to Caffeine AI using the ICP network for hosting these applications because they are now taking the front end of an application normally what you would host on like an Amazon web service or Versell or just a normal web hosting provider and they're moving that to to a blockchain to a decentralized network which is much harder to exploit and much harder to attack.

[00:29:23]So, as we've seen, even Lovable recently had some major exploits happen. Many people's lovable websites were hacked and taken down. And we've seen this a lot in the decentralized finance and crypto space where the main attack vector is not necessarily on the blockchain itself but on the front-end hosting infrastructure.

[00:29:55]And even governments have come in and subpoenaed hosting companies and said, "You have to take this website down because we don't like it. We don't like what these people are doing in decentralized finance because it takes uh it it takes our piece of the pie in in in the monetary system in more or less words. And there's there are many many examples and situations of this.

[00:30:24]But by hosting your front end on a decentralized blockchain network, a government can't come in and just take a website down.

[00:30:35]They uh a hacker can't just dodo a website and take the front end offline.

[00:30:41]Now you know Ethereum for instance are blockchain smart contracts for let's say snuggle or maxfi those are on the blockchain all the financial transactions happen on the blockchain is very secure uh but the front end you know that's just a normal website and I can host a website and mirror it on other servers as well if somebody tried to exploit the front end which I have a lot of protections in place to prevent that from happening. So the site will stay up. But if a government came in and said, "We got to take your website down." I would just have to spin up a mirrored website on another server uh and boom, everybody's back in business.

[00:31:23]Also, people can interact directly on basecan.org and run their transactions.

[00:31:28]You want to withdraw your position, go to bascan.org and click withdraw. You can do this literally all on the blockchain. Now, the next step in the evolution of that is having frontends hosted on the blockchain itself, too.

[00:31:41]Now, it's decentralized. You can't take down an entire blockchain that easily.

[00:31:46]Um, especially not one as large and established as ICP.

[00:31:50]So, caffeine AI is going to allow more tamperproof applications that will be more fault tolerant. You know, Amazon Web Services goes down all the time. for sale. Hey, our cluster over here in the northeastern United States is down and so are half of these websites. Sorry, we'll be back up in a few hours. That that can be nerve-wracking if you have money uh on a bank or a DeFi application that is hosted there as you're sitting there twiddling your thumbs saying, "Come on, Amazon, fix this."

[00:32:23]This prevents that from happening. Much better uptime, more fault tolerant. Then you get the sovereignty aspect of it.

[00:32:30]You have you have a more I and sorry governments don't hate me or come after me, but you have a way for people to post applications that are kind of out of reach or harder to go after um by a certain government agency.

[00:32:52]Like what what what is the government going to do? Go after ICP founder? It's a decentralized network. It's it's decentralized, but do you believe that a lot of people like you use Caffeine AI a little bit, do you believe that it's going to be as popular as Replet or as lovable? Do you think it's going to bring the masses into it?

[00:33:15]>> I think it could. And I think I think it could get big >> because AI is hot right now. And >> yeah, but like I could use Replet or lovable right now. So like what would and and I do use replet and I do use caffeine AI but the only reason from what I see my perspective of using caffeine AI is because it's eventually going to integrate with smart contracts inside of the inside of the my my project because right now I know it's it's going to be simple stuff. It's not going to be something like you can't like create a Snuggle or a Maxify. You're not going to be able to create one of those, but you'll be able to create like games and casinos and staking contracts and simple >> escrow accounts.

[00:34:03]>> Escro accounts. Yeah.

[00:34:05]>> Like imagine this. Say say I'm on Facebook Marketplace and you're you're selling me >> um uh what's what's a cool what's a cool car? What's a cool classic car?

[00:34:18]>> Um cool classic car like a Corvette.

[00:34:21]>> Okay. You've got a Corvette and I want to buy it. That's that's a big transaction. Let's say uh I make an offer of $80,000.

[00:34:28]>> Correct.

[00:34:29]>> Am I gonna show up to a parking lot and give you $80,000 cash for that and trust that you're not just going to mug me?

[00:34:37]But I don't know that. But I could with something like Caffeine AI, [snorts] I could say, "Hey, in literally just a few sentences, I could type, create me an escrow smart contract with a front end to handle this transaction where I have to approve it and the seller has to approve it. And once both approvals are in, then the $80,000 transfers over to their wallet."

[00:35:05]>> You see? And that's a very smart contract.

[00:35:08]>> Oh, and you can put that in a smart contract.

[00:35:12]>> Exactly. And it goes from my wallet into the escrow account, the smart contract itself. And only once both parties approve it in a certain period of time, will it then transfer to the other wallet. And that's when I've got the title to the car and the keys and and everything. And we both approve it. the money transfers over and I go to the DMV and transfer the car over into my name.

[00:35:37]And if the contract expires or the deal doesn't go through, you can have something in there that says, "Okay, just send the money back to my wallet."

[00:35:46]The deal is off.

[00:35:48]>> I see. So, you're saying like there could be a potential for people to make these local apps for their daily use um >> in minutes. In in like five minutes.

[00:35:57]Yeah.

[00:35:58]>> Right. Okay. So you think that there is a possibility where blockchain technology is going to be used more and more by companies by people on a daily basis and that caffeine AI is going to be standing at the middle of that where you're going to need caffeine AI just like we need replet or lovable to make a website to basically help you with these kind of transactions or fun games or things you want to make maybe for your friends or family or group or discard group or Facebook groups or whatever, right? I'm sure there's millions of other applications you can think of, right?

[00:36:35]>> Make me a make me something like GoFundMe where people can donate to this smart contract and then the money gets paid to this nonprofit when the fundraiser is over and you can make that in five minutes and you don't have to pay gund their cut. you don't have to, you know, so and like you said, if you want to make a quick little game where people can like a little lottery game, uh, bingo or, um, some kind of jackpot, you can do that in minutes on these and they're relatively simple smart contracts that can be done pretty securely for something small and simple like that. And it's like what we're seeing with AI right now. It's like, why would I go pay for this fitness tracker app? Why would I go pay $1020$20 a month to use a fitness tracker app when I can tell Cat GPT or Claude or Love It or uh um Lovable [clears throat] or Replet, I can say, "Hey, make me a fitness tracker app to track my calories and log my food entries and my exercises."

[00:37:43]They can spin that up in like 30 minutes. and now they've got their own little website where they're tracking all their stuff and save themselves 20 bucks a month and in a lot of cases they can customize it so it's even better for them as the end user. Now we're going to see that coming for very basic DeFi application soon. Like I was saying an escrow contract normally that's not something simple. You might have to get a lawyer involved and this and that. But now with DeFi, that's one of like the main use cases is secure escrow transactions. I put the money in there and once both parties agree, the money gets sent to you. So I once I have the product in my hand and I and I've already approved it, they approve it and say, "Yep, good." The money goes through and they can spin that up in five minutes. Well, >> they don't even you know what's great about um what's going to be great about um Caffeine AI is there's a marketplace.

[00:38:38]So, somebody's gonna make a great >> Yeah.

[00:38:40]>> es app. You don't even need to spin it up. You can literally go >> two wallet addresses in. Yeah.

[00:38:45]>> Yeah. You're like, "Oh, oh, this one works." Click on it. It'll have like 20 ratings. 50 people have used it.

[00:38:50]Caffeine AI. What they're going to have is a marketplace where you can go and if someone else has already made the app before, other people can just click it, download it, and start using it. So, what's actually great about that is imagine 5,000 people making their own apps, putting it on the marketplace, other people using it. And the reason you need an escrow account is because if you go to escro.com, which I've used in the past for domains, I used to buy domains.

[00:39:18]And so domains, you need an escrow account. So, it's not great because escro.com charges like three to 5%. So, if you buy a $2,000 domain, you want to give them $100. It's like crazy. It's like crazy. Just because they're in sitting in the middle, you don't need it. The smart contract can sit in the middle, you can save your $100 even if you pay the guy in the marketplace three $4 or $5 or whatever it is.

[00:39:44]>> Yeah, >> it's still worth it. So that's why I think ICP is extraordinarily undervalued. Caffeine AI, I think from the research I've done, I think it's going to get hundreds of thousands of users, uh, because the number of applications you can use it for and the things you can use it for in daily life, people haven't even touched the surface of it yet. And you're actually validating that stuff. You're not saying it because you're being a dev, [clears throat] but you're you're not saying it, but I think that's what you feel, right? I'm trying to drag it out of you. Well, think about all these folks right now using AI to create new applications for the iPhone, the Android, or just general web applications. They're spinning them up with AI, and they're charging 10, 20 bucks a month >> to get people to use their product or service.

[00:40:40]Now, as a developer, when I want to spin up something like that, I have to go through the Apple Store. I have to get approved. I have to tie um Stripe or another payment processor into the whole thing. I have to get approved for that. If I'm in a certain country, I might not be able to do that.

[00:40:59]So, Caffeine AI will allow developers like me to have a cool creative idea for an application that people want to pay for. I don't have to jump through all the bureaucratic hoops, all of the KYC stuff to get a payment processor to get on a marketplace like an Apple store, a Google Play.

[00:41:23]>> Got it.

[00:41:24]>> Instead, I can spin something up and dis distribute it and market it myself and people can start using it immediately.

[00:41:32]And as a DeFi and crypto guy, the end result of all of the financial transactions funding that infrastructure goes into ICP.

[00:41:46]The same way >> I have to pay I have to buy Link tokens to power my automation on my blockchain products and services. I'm I am pumping the price of link every single day. We need to buy quite a bit of link to keep it going.

[00:42:03]>> Now imagine Caffeine AI doing that at scale with hundreds of thousands of users >> who are all hosting applications there and those monthly hosting fees are being converted into the ICP token that powers the network.

[00:42:21]>> Amazing. Okay. Well guys, there you go.

[00:42:24]You got a dev that's saying that caffeine AI and ICP all that is undervalued. It's all going to rock and roll. And I I do believe in I I'll make an ICP video very shortly for everyone too because I think there's some just great stuff going on in ICP that hasn't been covered right and uh you know let's get the truth out there. Now next question. Got a couple more questions.

[00:42:44]>> Sure.

[00:42:45]>> When is the new pools and the new chains coming for MaxFi?

[00:42:51]>> Okay. So great question. Uh, I get asked every single day in the Maxi and Snuggle servers about when are when are you adding this pool? Can you add this pool?

[00:43:01]And I'm very careful about pool and token selection because that's another risk vector. So, I have to verify them manually. I I you can't just add any any old pool on here cuz people could get hurt if they're in a pool that's actually a scam pool with a replica token with the same name, but it's actually not.

[00:43:25]>> So, I go and meticulously research the best pools for the tokens. I verify it's the actual token itself. I verify it's the actual pool that has the most TVL and volume on each deck and I evaluate if I should add it to the website. So some of the ones that are coming are going to be link pools on maxfi. Chain link powers this whole thing. So it only makes sense to incorporate some link USDC pools and link ETH pools. We also have another syrup pool coming. A lot of people are asking foro pools, so I'm going to be looking into those. Um, the Cardano pool that you found has been an absolute monster and it's a hidden gem. Most systems will completely overlook it, but unless you're actually in it documenting your results like you, no one's going to find that gem. You found that gem. And there are a couple other Cardano pools on base chain that I think are also hidden gems that we can offer to the MaxFi users.

[00:44:38]And then some XRP pools, which I know people are excited about. Those are coming too.

[00:44:43]>> XRP pools are Yeah, Ripple pools are Yeah, people love Ripple. Ripple's uh was it I think their COO said he sold all his Ripple now.

[00:44:54]>> That's something finally. I mean, he's he's only been dumping for years, but that's good for everybody else because >> pressure Ripple has a lot of sell pressure on it already. They they they've just literally only token I know they've been selling constantly for like five, six years.

[00:45:09]>> It is a surprisingly centralized token and and ecosystem, but their use case is very valid. Replace the Swift monetary system. I think XRP has a very bright future and I think they've done it a certain way for a reason because they have to make deals with traditional finance banks to make this work. Um, >> true.

[00:45:34]>> So, I I actually like XRP long term. I think it's uh I think it's going to do very well. In the meantime though, while we're seeing, you know, all the price just chopping around down here in this bare market, you can actually make a lot of money just farming XRP and wrapped ETH together. So, if you want to make some more XRP to get your bull run bag ready for the next bull run, you can just farm wrapped XRP on on base chain paired with wrapped ETH and boom, you've got an XRP money printer. So, so the big question, new chains. We want new chains. We want B&B. We want Soul.

[00:46:14]>> We want Amax. What else do they want?

[00:46:17]ETH.

[00:46:18]>> Miss anything?

[00:46:19]>> A lot. I've had requests for ICP. I've had We got to do ICP too one day. Soon soon.

[00:46:29]>> Sonic, all these just all.

[00:46:33]So I'm again it's a lot of work and it's a lot of um money involved in making sure it's done properly.

[00:46:42]>> Correct.

[00:46:42]>> So as a business owner I have to make decisions there. Now the obvious choice right off the bat >> Binance Smart Chain, BNB Smart Chain, whatever, however you want to say it.

[00:46:53]BSC >> is massive. There's over$5 billion dollars of TVL even in the bare market over there. So obviously we want to accommodate the Binance Smart Chain folks because they could benefit so much from this because they're paying slightly higher gas costs than we are to farm on base chain. They can't rebalance as often.

[00:47:19]>> Oh, okay.

[00:47:20]>> So we can take concentrated liquidity management on base chain to a level never seen before.

[00:47:26]Imagine that. And eventually Ethereum chain as well.

[00:47:31]Now I'm working with some uh security companies uh the uh smart contract auditors and everything to make sure we do it properly. So when we roll out to Bant smart chain, it's going to have all the security that we have over on base chain already, but also the gas efficiency. And that is where the the real magic will happen technologically is working with some of the best minds in the space to take the snuggle technology over to a more expensive chain like Binance Smart Chain and Ethereum. How do you do that? Well, there are some ways we can do that. It might look slightly different than what you see for base chain and arbitum because it's so cheap here, >> but it's possible. And when we unlock that capability on those chains with all the pools on Pancake Swap and Uniswap over there, all the all the meme coins, all the DGEN pairs, all these projects launching every day on on Binance Smart Chain, we're going to see people using the system like never before and making more money than they've ever made liquidity farming on BSC.

[00:48:40]>> Yeah. I mean, if you're making like 300, 200, 3, 4, 4, 500% on B on base, I don't even want to know what these percentages are going to look at look like on on B&B. I I don't I I I mean, and some of these tokens, you know, they hold they hold they're okay. They hold their weight. It's just that um no one really knows about them besides us crypto guys.

[00:49:07]Yeah, >> we'll educate people about them. And you know, the the one pair I made the most money on was a B&B BTC and B&B ETH. Killer pairs. You can make hundreds of on them. But, you know, this was obviously before um Max 5. If I if I had Max, I would have let me tell you something. I would have already been I probably would have hit seven figures by now with all the stuff. I've been liquidity farming for years and I could it just takes so much time. You see that 2400 2400 now [clears throat] I was just trying to keep three or four positions going and it was difficult because I go out of range and you got to keep the ranges wider because it's too hard to maintain. So you know like I'm I'm ready for BSC. I think a lot of people are >> I think so too. So that that is the one I'm currently working on. And [clears throat] like I said, I'm working with some really smart folks to figure out all of the little tricks that we can do on that blockchain >> to allow us to keep this rebalancing frequency and do it at scale cost effectively.

[00:50:24]>> It's going to be a game changer for BSC.

[00:50:26]I mean imagine on BSC like you were saying a lot of people in Ethereum especially but let's just say BSC >> a lot of times you would stop yourself from rebalancing because I'm like I don't want to pay >> it's expensive >> even even 50 cents to a dollar $2 just to rebalance a position >> I used to pay it all the time I used to pay it all the time >> me too and uh it was still very worth it I still made a ton of money but imagine having this over there where it's like oh man you're almost always in range, just snuggle rebalancing with very little impermanent loss, no swap fees, no slippage, no MEV extraction, which is huge over there. Same with Ethereum.

[00:51:05]Ethereum has some of the most mev bots you've ever seen in your life. Um, just because of how that blockchain works, uh, block byblock.

[00:51:14]>> Um, you can get frontr run all day, every day there. And people are making much larger transactions. with $100,000 at a time, a medbot could extract three, four $5,000 off that transaction, and that's on top of paying potentially like $30 in gas fees or something like that.

[00:51:32]So, so we're going to bring this technology to those chains where they need it the most. It was just so easy to do it over on base chain >> and arbitrum because the gas costs are so low. But uh we're able to do this and um we've got the solutions coming for those chains, too. So, get ready for farming over there like you've never seen.

[00:51:53]>> That's going to be exciting. Uh the next question I have for you is when can we Wow, Agent Max is >> there. [clears throat] Holy cow.

[00:52:04]>> Yeah, Agent Max is on fire right now.

[00:52:06]>> Okay. I know that I know you got a big update coming for Agent Max. I know you got to do that update first.

[00:52:12]>> Sure. Um, you made a,000 bucks in about a month uh off of $12,000 deposit and you made a little profit on the $12,000 you put in there, too. When can we get this seed sale up and running for everybody?

[00:52:28]Very soon. So, I as you know, I've been working late nights recently um optimizing Agent Max based on [clears throat] this first month of results that we've had, which by the way, that's amazing.

[00:52:45]I'm doing almost 10% per month um autonomously.

[00:52:50]Uh it's all all it's doing is farming on MaxFi on a portfolio allocation split that I told it to do. I said, you know, do this much in blue chips and have this much exposure to some degen pairs, figure out which pairs to use and do what you think is best. And it gave me its proposal. I said, "That's amazing. That sounds like a great idea. Go for And it's just been it did all this automatically. It's it's just farming day and night. I have literally done zero management here. And Maxi and Snuggler are already hands off enough. But now I got Agent Max just doing it for me on top of that. Like I don't even have to open positions on Maxf anymore. Agent Max is opening them.

[00:53:38]>> Um >> can we say in the next week or two Maxf seed round will be ready for everybody?

[00:53:46]>> Yeah. Let I I think we can start the seed round for people who are interested sometime next week. Um because it's still going to take me some time to I I I'm I'm almost um ready to push out the new optimizations. It's got it found some gems uh some pools right now that are just absolute killers and it's reoptimized it strategies for the rebalance delays, the range width settings.

[00:54:14]>> Wow. So it found a lot it found a lot of good information with this test for the last 30 days.

[00:54:19]>> This has been so valuable as as a realworld proof of concept for getting da getting data. We are getting such good information here and as you've seen people are coming to this page and they're seeing the results of each position and if they like that they just go duplicate Agent Max's positions that they like. So that is I think one of the best use cases for Agent Max is showcasing its positions publicly on the on the blockchain. and it's all public and they can come to the website and see exactly what range width, what rebalance delay, what pairs, what decks they're on, and if they like it, they can just go copy that for themselves. Um, and we've got some optimizations coming where like we did about what 10% in the first month, maybe a little more um if if you include the price appreciation on the LPS. Um, >> yeah, you ran this very conservatively.

[00:55:25]So, from what I understand, this next update is still going to be pretty conservative, but we're going to see a boost in APR.

[00:55:32]>> We're still going to see >> I'm I'm keeping it very conservative. So like 70% blue chip blue chips uh 20% altcoins that would be considered blue chip by a lot of people and then 10% DGEN positions spread out among multiple DGEN positions. That way if any one of them pulls a you know >> does something crazy and tanks it doesn't even make a dent in the portfolio but it boosts the APR. So that's that's my goal here is to get a well diversified portfolio autonomously managed by Agent Max all using the Snuggle technology available on MaxFi and using the yield that it generates to buy back its own token and just burn it just get it out of circulation forever and over time it is just continuous buy pressure uh and a deflationary token supply that. Let's say 1 2 3 years goes by and it is just chugging along like a farming machine, growing its own portfolio, earning even more money, taking that money, buying the token, making the price go up, and then burning the tokens so they can never be sold.

[00:56:53]>> Imagine after a couple years of that.

[00:56:56]>> Yeah, >> it's really going to be spectacular.

[00:56:59]>> What I noticed was very interesting. And I brought this up in one of my videos. I said Agent Max has $12,000 in it and it's made $1,000. Now imagine if it had which our raise is going to be around this amount $1.2 million would be 100x this. That means we could have $1.2 million in MaxFi. And by the way, these numbers he's running are conservative. They could be bigger than this. So we could have 1.2 2 million in MaxFi and every month could be earning over $100,000. I think it's going to be over 100,000. I think it's probably be closer to about 130 to 150,000 a month by the time >> we're in a bare market. The volumes are so low right now that like it's earning. That's just the crazy thing about MaxFi and and Snuggle Technology. Like we're in one of the slowest periods for liquidity farming.

[00:57:55]The numbers we're pulling is are absolutely incredible. Imagine in a bull market.

[00:58:01]>> Imagine when we're in a bull market that's not gonna be 10% per month.

[00:58:05]That's gonna be 20 30% per month.

[00:58:08]>> Yeah. Yeah. And and that's and that's the thing like people people have to figure it out. Like MaxFi, the way it's set up, I think the level of experience you have and I have in crypto, we're one of the two most OG experienced guys out here. What we're setting up here is sustainable. Not only is it sustainable, it's absolutely um explosive. it could have such an incredible long-term powerful impact based on sustainable powerful numbers which in the real world don't even make sense but over here everything makes sense. [laughter] So >> and we've been doing this a long time like these numbers have become kind of normalized to me and I still have um my riskreward ratios. I still have my tradi investments and everything. I still have my emergency fund Dave Ramsey style.

[00:58:55]Like I'm still a very responsible citizen. But I take my disposable income and I put it into liquidity farming and I generate an entire salaries worth of absolutely >> income each month. It's like it's like I'm getting paid an entire salary every month for zero work at this point because Max Fi everything >> and it just shows up in my wallet and that to me is just so cool. And now to take that to the next level >> with AI agent technology. I mean AI is incredible these days. It can [clears throat] it can process so much more data than I can so much faster and at scale. can analyze thousands of pools in a day for me >> and say, "Hey, >> the the volume to TBL in this pool is off the charts right now. Let's open a position over here and take advantage of it." And I'm like, "Hey, thanks, Agent Max. Sure." Like, there we go. And it's and and it does it automatically. So, once we have it all set up like that at scale with, let's say, $1.2, to $2 million, something like that. And it's just doing this all on its own for years.

[01:00:09]>> It's going to be super crazy. Um, that Agent Max token just based on that buying pressure alone will create an effect that's up and to the right for a long long period of time. Even if people are buying and selling like it's going to go up and down, up and down, but >> keep going up. Yeah. over time it'll be so deflationary and just have so much automatic buy pressure the numbers are are really crazy when you run them. So I'm I'm excited for this. I'm I'm going through uh actually um the seed raise contracts right now with the security company just to make sure it's all it's a very simple smart contract but still I do you know how I am I do everything super >> super carefully so I'm going through the that whole process with even the seed uh raise and uh that should hopefully be available in the next week or two we can start >> opening that up to the public.

[01:01:08]>> Beautiful. We'll do some videos on that shortly, too. Then, um, UG. Okay. So, UIG, I get a lot of questions about UIG because you're always mentioning it in the Discord and you're always mentioning it. I've seen you mention it everywhere.

[01:01:22]Even on our shows, you've mentioned it a million times and asking me about it. I don't know what UIG is. I'm not in it, but you've always said like really, really great things about uh I believe his name is Lucas. He's one of the founders. you've always spoken very highly of him and I just wanted to get this out there because I get so many questions all the time. Can Alex can you tell me more about UIG? And I'm like, no, go ask Alex. I don't know anything about it. So, can you for once and for all tell everyone what is UIG and what benefits is there? Because obviously I I'm getting inundated with questions about it because you mention it so often.

[01:02:04]>> Yeah, I I I mention it all the time. Um, UIG stands for the Underdog Investor Group.

[01:02:13]>> That's what for Okay.

[01:02:15]>> It's We're the underdogs, right?

[01:02:17]>> Okay. Got it.

[01:02:19]>> And, uh, it is founded and run by Lucas Rubik's.

[01:02:24]He's my very good friend. And I've known him for four years now. I mean, he's a big YouTuber in the space. We've we've been, you know, rubbing shoulders as YouTubers in the DeFi and crypto space for many years now. And his YouTube channel is the CryptoLabs Research Channel. Many people watching this have probably seen some of his videos.

[01:02:48]>> He's he's got a good channel. I I watched I I used to watch during the crypto bull run. His videos popped up all the time.

[01:02:56]>> Yeah. So he makes some of the best DeFi videos especially about liquidity provisioning >> and that is what is taught in the UIG.

[01:03:07]So if anybody wants to get a next level education about liquidity provisioning, decentralized finance, uh, wallet security, market trends, and how to best take advantage of that stuff, borrowing and lending, all these different strategies, the UIG is probably I would say it is the best community for that in the space. I've actually been in a bunch of them. It's the best one. I've taught in there as a guest teacher for years >> and Lucas and I actually partnered on building DeFi buddy.

[01:03:42]>> Oh, >> or the DeFi community. So, DeFi Buddy is thanks to Lucas and Crypto Labs and the UIG and I I built it. I developed it and now like you said, we've got tens of thousands of users. It's absolutely free to use. Um, so that's what the UIG is.

[01:04:00]If anybody's interested, go in there. The teachers are amazing.

[01:04:04]Colin, Gordon, Angie, Christian, Lucas, they're they're so good at teaching this stuff and um they can really help you take your liquidity provisioning strategies to the next level with Snuggle and MaxFi.

[01:04:20]So, if you're if you've gone through our very basic educational materials uh in the learn tab on Max Buy or Snuggle, you've watched our videos, but you want to have a really >> uh a much deeper understanding to become what I would consider a power user of these tools.

[01:04:41]Go join a pro community like this where there are people who have been making a living as liquidity providers like I have for many years now and they'll teach you all of the basics so you master those concepts like impermanent loss, what range widths to use on different pairs, what pairs to be a part of, what um what your portfolio allocation should look like based on your risk tolerance level. And if you're into borrowing and lending and leverage strategies, um they teach that stuff too very responsibly. Um it it's just such a wealth of information. And be careful out here in DeFi and crypto because you might get into some call groups or whatever where you you pay a monthly fee or something and they give you quote unquote stock tips. Yeah, the call group >> the call groups will be pitching you scams all day, whereas this is more focused on liquidity provisioning and how to basically beat impermanent loss and how to take advantage of the long-term four-year cycle trends in the crypto market using liquidity strategies. And then if you take that knowledge and you apply that to a tool as powerful as Snuggle or MaxFi, your results will go through the roof because there's a learning curve to this stuff. As you guys know, even though Snuggle and Maxi makes it so easy to do, >> still still some learning.

[01:06:15]>> You still need to have a strategy. you still need to know what assets make up your portfolio, even in your liquidity portfolio to have a long-term successful experience out here in the DeFi space.

[01:06:28]So, anyway, education is everything, you guys. I I may have made one of the coolest tools out here for concentrated liquidity management, but you still got to learn how to use the tool. Um, you know, it's it's like using um it's like sharpening the axe before you try to cut down a tree. Like the more you know, the more effective you're going to be, the more money you're going to make out here. So, focus on education, you guys.

[01:06:54]Test stuff, document stuff, track your your data, and all that stuff is what we've been teaching for years. And the UIG. So, anyway, that's what the UIG is.

[01:07:05]I know you're hitting me up all the time like, "Dude, what?" Everybody's asking me in Discord what the UIG is because Alex is talking about it on the AMAs.

[01:07:13]That's what it is. Go check it out. You could just go to cryptolabsearch.com.

[01:07:17]check it out. Um, I highly recommend it.

[01:07:21]>> That's amazing. Um, I I appreciate you telling me that. I wanted to go check them out myself. Um, I I um it seems to be a lot of value there that someone can teach you all that and make you a you know, if you're earning good on liquidity farming, I think you can up your game. If you're using MaxFine Snuggle and you're earning I don't know 100 bucks a day, 200 bucks a day, I think something like that could probably take you to three 400 bucks a day real estate.

[01:07:46]>> Exactly.

[01:07:47]>> Yeah, that's impressive. Thank you for sharing that.

[01:07:51]>> Really shorten that learning curve for you to where you go from absolute beginner or maybe even intermediate to an an advanced >> proexpert level very quickly. Yeah.

[01:08:03]>> Well, Alex, I appreciate your time.

[01:08:05]We're out of time here and we're going to get everyone the next update. Uh we're going to do another interview uh next week regarding Agent Max because there's so many people waiting for the Agent Max launch and seed round. I just I mean I'm tired of hearing about it. So we just got [laughter] get the seed round out of the way.

[01:08:26]>> Yeah.

[01:08:26]>> Then get Agent Max its money and let it do its magic. So anyway guys, thank you for tuning in and thank you Alex.

[01:08:33]>> Thank you so much Dow King. It was a pleasure and I will talk with you soon.