DEEP DIVE - “You’re Not Australian If…” Sam Bamford & Dr Joanna Howe Go To War

Añadido: 2026-06-02

[00:00:00]In an ABC interview back in October of 2025 before our second anti-mass immigration rally, in an interview with the ABC, I said this.

[00:00:13]You want to something that's similar to the post World War II migration program that you mentioned in the beginning of our discussion. We want to have a debate about it. We want to talk about it. We want to understand what the best way forward is for our country. The singular goal of my involvement with the March for Australia, the Australia marches formation and then the creation of the Australian lobby group was always about one thing and one thing only. Having the debate about what the future of Australia looked like. This was critical. We need to have a conversation about what things need to look like in order to be able to build that and create it to to create the road map to create the plan. Now, a lot of people got really upset in the last week that the conversation has now gone towards what is an Australian? What does ethnicity mean? How does that attach to culture and who we are? But let's be clear about what this is. This is a part of the journey. This isn't the end destination. This is a conversation that has to be had as part of the broader picture about defining who we are and what we want to build for the future of our country. None of this was ever going to be easy. None of it was meant to be simple. It was always about being challenged, threshing out ideas, and finding out who we are so we can become the best version of ourselves. This is a moment in time, not the end point. We're going to push on. We're going to continue to create our country. We thank you for your support. This conversation today with Ed Schuler is a part of that debate. Things have sparked off in the last couple of weeks. As you know, Ed and I are unpacking some of that today.

[00:02:02]Great conversation. Ed's a great upcoming future leader of this country.

[00:02:07]I'm proud to know him and I think you'll enjoy this one as we unpack what was one of the spiciest conversations we've seen ALG founder Sam Bamford be a part of with Dr. Joanna How and her husband James. Things got heated but at the end of the day they came together as adults and uh you know patched it up and walked out there agreeing to disagree and once again another tick in the box having the conversation about what the future of Australia looks like.

[00:02:37]And last time we spoke was just the other night when we did the chamber.

[00:02:41]>> Y >> that uh that little foray has been a bit of fun.

[00:02:44]>> It has. It has. It's been a good uh setup there by Brody Buchal, the Chamber Uncensored. And uh yeah, hopefully can take off.

[00:02:51]>> You've been on his podcast before, too.

[00:02:53]>> Yeah, been on his podcast, I think, in January this year. Had a really good chat. I think it was one of the um yeah, best uh >> podcasts I've been on. He's a really good host, so definitely worth uh checking that out. We got George Mamealis and also Jamal. So, we got the crew together.

[00:03:09]>> Yeah, it's actually a a very well-rounded group of people, but not that we're here to plug the chamber, but just an observation that it is out.

[00:03:15]There's a few episodes out there now.

[00:03:17]People can jump on Patreon and Rumble and check it out as well. So, I might put the link there in the comments, but we're here specifically today to have a chat about the topic of the week, which has been uh Sam Bford's conversation with Dr. Joanna How and her husband James which uh kind of imploded into this weird meltdown. A lot of stuff came came out of it and certainly on X in the last 48 hours. Holy [ __ ] Hasn't that lit the world up?

[00:03:42]>> Your definition doesn't work.

[00:03:43]>> I Okay, let me ask you some question.

[00:03:45]>> You can't tell me if my definition doesn't work. I just defined it. It is defining something. I've just defined it.

[00:03:52]>> Let's see if you can.

[00:03:53]>> Let's see if you can. You first. What's an Australian? What's an Australian?

[00:03:57]What's an Australian? What's There you go. So don't come at me. Let me answer my question. Don't come at me.

[00:04:02]He thinks he knows.

[00:04:03]>> It has. It has. And it's a conversation that's been a long time coming. I think many of us have been trying to have this conversation for for a very long time.

[00:04:10]Um but it's essentially the conversation around what is an Australian? What does that what does it mean? What does it mean for our nation? What is a nation as well? There are all these questions that are posed um from this discussion. And I think you saw a lot of them mentioned in in that debate. Uh we spoke about it uh on Thursday night as well. Um so it's really it's really interesting time uh for the country uh obviously for the right wing in particular. We know what the leftists generally uh tend to think on this matter. Um but there's a battle going on for you know what it is that uh our nation is what what an Australian is. Uh and I think it's important that people develop a strong response to that because it has major ramifications for our country. Were you surprised by the uh the ex meltdown um what that you watched unfold yesterday with uh some of the other commentators?

[00:04:57]>> Look, no. Uh I I I don't think so. I think there's a there's a growing divide um on the right and you see this in the UK, you see it in the US as well, but between basically conservatives and uh nationalists. I see and I know there are, you know, different sort of categories within that. people like to say civic nationalists or ethnationalists and we'll get into that later. But I really do think it's a it's a difference between uh traditional conservatives who have conserved nothing uh and let the west and our country and Australia more specifically uh go to the dogs uh and nationalists who are generally younger um you know very very frustrated reactionist to uh what's happened in the past 20 to 30 years in our country. Uh and I think it's people that want to to to first and foremost put Australia first. um not worship conservative principles necessarily um but do what's best for our nation uh and what's best for our nation I think uh can be articulated quite easily.

[00:05:54]>> Geez, there's a uh I'm not going to label all older people with this, but the generational divide in this argument is absolutely bloody massive >> for sure. And I think it's just a natural uh a natural thing if you've been, you know, if you're sort of having to deal with the conviction that you as a conservative have conserved nothing and you've let the country on your watch in your in your prime go the way it has into this um increasingly socialist but also just uh very very hedonistic society. Um you haven't really conserved the social stuff. The economic stuff is is is not conserved in any respect. uh it's very hard as a 60 or 70 year old to to look back and say yeah I was I guess I was part of the problem or at least I was completely ineffective. So I think those people will be hardened in their ways and I I know there are many exceptions to that and that's that's very much welcomed. Um but I think it's young people who are dealing with the consequences. So of course they're going to have a strong reaction to what's happened. there's a strong presence of what would appear to be foreign backed or uh foreign origin media uh alternate media that is pushing back really hard against where we've come to with regards to what an Australian is, what the Australian lobby group's doing. Um and and their position aligns a lot more with that older conservative uh crowd as well. What do you think's going on there? Well, I think it probably brings us back to my point earlier about the nationalism versus conservatism. You could probably include more there in the conservatism. You've got these globalists as well. It's it's nationalism versus globalism. Do we want strong nations? Uh not just one strong nation, not just one nation that's allowed to, you know, keep their uh strong identity. Um but having multiple nations being able to do that. We see movements toward that in Japan. Um you know, crying out for it in the UK and the US and I think that's rising here as well.

[00:07:43]>> Um so it's exciting. It's exciting to be exciting thing to be um witnessing. Um but goodness me, we got a lot of work to do and a whole lot of time.

[00:07:51]>> Man, it just seems so sloppy and messy.

[00:07:53]And I know that X can feel really big when you're looking at this stuff. It's five or 10% of the people, right? And >> there's multiple other places where this stuff is, but you know, the mainstream media doesn't want to kind of touch this stuff. And when they do dip their toe in it, like they had a crack at Sam Bamford the other week um and that kind of got some mainstream coverage, but they didn't want to say his name and they didn't want to mention his podcast. I just wanted to have a go at Senator Price. Um, weird political time, but it's sloppy. It's messy. It's a conversation that needs to be had from a lobby group owner perspective. The Australian lobby group, I think it's absolutely crucial that we define what an Australian is so that we can defend what an Australian is, especially when we're representing Australians as the the ALG.

[00:08:36]>> British people built Australia. Germans didn't do [ __ ] >> Angloeltics, >> people from Europe. you said that you're just it's white, man. What you're talking about is white, she's brown, and it's really that simple.

[00:08:48]>> Exactly. And I think you touched on the sort of social media firestorm that's not really representative a lot of the time. It's where the debates are often hashed out and it's great, but you got to engage uh you know, the broader population. That's far that's far more what I'm interested in. Um and you know in the work that I do at Red Union in the education space um you know we've got real institutional problems and they don't um they don't come off necessarily as you know incredibly far-left ideals you know hating our country all of that but it's uh it's a buildup and there's there's an enormous amount of that more broadly in our in our country at the moment. So there's a battle going on uh for the soul of our nation. I like to say that um because I think it's true. I think um you know our foundation as a as a country uh which is Christianity has been eroded uh and then that sort of leads into more what an Australian is which I think can easily be defined as primarily Angloeltic uh with an enduring ancestry in this land Australia.

[00:09:42]>> Yeah, that's that's definitely the case.

[00:09:44]I don't disagree and we've all we've all got minor adjustments to that that we might see, you know, there but we also recognize that we have the same common enemy, right? and we aren't the enemy of each other. Um, but it would appear that there are divisive elements there that are really interested in splitting this thing apart and really driving that wedge in there. And, you know, I saw a a tweet uh yesterday that was like, you know, calling these alternate media guys that are apparently conservatives that are trying to split, you know, this movement or push these wedges in there actually doing the work for Labor, you know.

[00:10:20]>> Yeah. Yeah. I saw some of that re-sharing like Labour Party posts or something like that which is sort of a mask off moment. But yeah, what I'm far more concerned about is on what's on the hat over there which is off camera, but it's Australia first and how do we actually get there? And I think if you were to speak to um you know more broadly the population, they're saying yeah our country should be put first. Um but there is an underlying assumption in many people um that our country is not worth defending firstly because it can't be defined. it it's it seemed as though it's this undefinable thing for 20 or 30 years now. Um up until the the end of World War II, it was basically very very clear. It's what I just described then.

[00:10:57]It was a Christian moral framework with a very distinct Angloeltic ethnicity um and tradition and and heritage and ancestry in this land and that's what matters. Um, so I think the fact that we're able to get closer to defining that now is very exciting because I think then the message that, you know, everyday Australians are going to be able to hear is not this self-hatred stuff, not this um our country is not worth defending. Um, and not this, oh well, what really is an Australian anyway? like we've got to solve that first because if we can't define uh what the uh predominant culture and the predominant identity in our country should be um then there's nothing for people the percentage of immigrants that would come here to assimilate into. So everyone can say well you know particular on the right wing oh well we all agree that immigrants have to assimilate like you can't bring your own culture there and there's an argument for the fact that very rarely happens anyway because um there's an ultimate determining factor and people you know if I were to move to Japan uh tomorrow I'd have a very very hard time in you know dying to my Australian way of life.

[00:12:00]So um I think there's a discussion there but the first thing is being able to define what our nation is built on. It's being able to define our people. Um, and then I think from there we can start talking about things like ending this self-hatred. Um, unlocking our energy.

[00:12:15]Um, being able to, you know, put the people first again. Uh, and I think, uh, that's the ultimate thing because at the moment this discussion has not entered the establishment. I think it's finally getting there. Um, but G, you see the backlash when it does. You're big on the Christian values part of it and I know we've spoken about that a fair bit, right? And without Christ, you know, I've seen you uh say this before, then we don't have a future as a nation. And look, as a Christian, I don't disagree with you. I'm going to cut a clip in here um of a tweet that LOL. Shelton put up with him in a room full of Indian migrants, you know, Indian Christian migrants. Is that the future that you see for Australia?

[00:12:49]>> That's not the future that I want. No, I I want a um >> like I've said uh earlier on, I think 70 to 90% predominant Angloeltic, what we would call Australians. Uh and then the best of the world, the best of the world that can come in uh and assimilate. And I think it's uh far harder than you'd you'd realize. I mean, I'll give an example. My one of my pastors at my church is uh he's a Brazilian man. He's been here for 8 years. Quality guy. Has helped my walk with Christ immensely. Um he contributes insanely, an insane amount. He's also working in construction. One of the few immigrants that actually works in in construction.

[00:13:24]Um but he's not Australian. He's not Australian and he's keen to become an Australian citizen. But you'll find that uh I think deep down uh and and he said as well it's a assimilation is a very very difficult thing. It's almost like a daily decision that you have to try to make. But the end of the day he's born and bred in Brazil.

[00:13:41]>> Y um and that's not a bad thing. him being a Brazilian living in Australian, if he's contributing and if he's assimilating um and he's within that small uh you know percentage uh of you know people in this country that aren't Australian I I don't see uh that as a bad thing. Um but I am steadfast on the fact that it has to be overwhelmingly Angloeltic otherwise there's nothing to assimilate into and otherwise we're not really a nation. Like if we're not a group of people with a shared identity then we're not a nation at all. I sometimes I feel also fond of white people and whatever you want to call it.

[00:14:20]Okay. Yep. Fine. Um [clears throat] >> and you know like I don't necessarily like seeing my own race disappear either. But can I just make a point here? I don't think that that part of me is the best part of me. Now I don't want to be a [ __ ] leftist, okay, and be like, "Well, everybody's Australian."

[00:14:41]That's not the answer either. White countries were um Christian, okay? And they created the best legal system in the world, the greatest freedoms for people, the greatest um conditions to live, the the most prosperous, richest, scientifically advanced countries. Okay?

[00:14:59]But not because they're white, because they're Christian.

[00:15:01]>> The guy I've just spoken about, if he has children here, what do we consider them Australian being born in Australia?

[00:15:07]Well, I think they're probably uh half Australian, half not, I guess. Um, but >> it doesn't seem complicated to me because they have a they have an ethn ethnically Brazilian background, right?

[00:15:18]They were born in this land. So, they are Australian citizens >> with all the rights and privileges that come with that and he's obviously a great contributor to the country and we would assume that his children will be as well. No one wants to deport them.

[00:15:31]>> No. No. And I think that's that's sort of the point. I mean at the moment just to context for people in at the end of World War II we were 90% Christian and 90% Angloeltic um that was about 85 to 80% uh toward the start of the 1980s uh and in the 1970s that had gone down to about 70%. Generally quite linear to one another. It's in the last 20 to 30 years that the Christian population has outpaced the decline in the Christian population has outpaced the Anglo Celtic one because there has been an overwhelming push in our institutions um to basically turn our own people away from faith which I think is demonic and um the Christian population is down to about 40% and the Angloeltic population is around 55%. So falling and falling and very soon won't be a majority and very soon won't be a plurality. you're going to have different ethnicities that supersede that of Angloelts on the way.

[00:16:24]We're on the way to that and that's what we want to reverse because it's very simple. I mean the predominant culture is the one which people will more likely assimilate into. Uh but at the moment at 55% it's clearly not enough to to maintain a strong nation with a homogeneous uh way of life. Um you're going to get stuff more more stuff like Bondi. Um you're going to get more rising tension um if it continues this way. And I I think that's what we all want to avoid because we want to put Australians first. We want Australians to, you know, have opportunity, be prosperous, uh, you know, live good lives in our country. Um, but again, I think it's very important that we get the categories right of who's Australian and who's not, cuz that starts the conversation. Um, and from that point, like we just said, and I, you know, referred to my pastor there, you can you can be a non-Australian living in Australia and still, you know, belong here. and and I think uh certainly the kids of those people can still belong here dependent on a few things but it doesn't mean you're Australian and I think that's the important part.

[00:17:21]>> Let's cut in a clip here of um Sam Bamford explaining his um definition of an Australian >> Anglo Celtic and or European descent people that built this country that's built off.

[00:17:32]>> When you look at Sam's description of an Australian, is that how you see it?

[00:17:36]>> Uh largely speaking, I would I would add the caveat of the the land matters. I'm not a gnostic when it comes to nationhood. I think it's important that um you know the land the land matters and I think the enduring ancestry in the land of Australia is is very very important. Um I think ultimately a nation is its people uh it's the culture that they set forth which is often shared through ethnicity and an identity and then overwhelmingly through uh whatever religion that that nation practices and we're a Christian nation.

[00:18:04]Um so I I I think there are a few things that I would um disagree slightly with Sam on. Um I think there are exceptions to every rule. I think the indig I think Aboriginals are the exception to the rule. They belong here. Um, you know, are they Australians in the sense that they're, you know, Anglo Kelts? No. Um, but I think there are exceptions to every rule. So there's no one suggesting that Aboriginals should should go anywhere at all.

[00:18:27]>> Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting to me you mentioned Japan before. If you went to Japan, got a citizenship, called yourself Japanese in a conversation with someone, they'd look at you like you were [ __ ] >> Yeah. Yeah, but if you had children in Japan and they were born in Japan and you said that they were Japanese, people would still look at you like you're [ __ ] right? But if you said, "I'm Australian origin ethnically, but my children were born in Japan and be like, "Oh, that's a really that's that makes sense." But for some reason, looking at Australia from that same perspective is completely off grounds, man. Not allowed to do that.

[00:18:58]>> No offense if there's any Japanese listening, but I don't have that much respect for Japanese culture. If you read about what happened in World War II, it was absolutely freaking horrific, man. They marched into China into Nanjing and they slaughtered 300,000 people. They forced 200,000 women into prostitution. No, but seriously, >> we don't take cues from Japan.

[00:19:16]>> Everyone is equal in the eyes of God.

[00:19:18]There is equal moral worth.

[00:19:20]>> Um but there are nations. There are distinct nations. There are distinct nations throughout the the course of the Bible, throughout the course of uh human history. And it's not a necessarily bad thing to have >> distinct. It's a beautiful thing, man. I think I think Japan as a nation is a beautiful thing. I think that I think their worship of their own culture is absolutely ideal, mate. I think it's fantastic. Their history might be ugly, but you know, they are what they are.

[00:19:42]They got to where they are.

[00:19:43]>> And I think the caveat which I would add to the Japanese case is the fact that it's a it's a really good thing if the nations were honoring honoring God. And you cannot say for one moment that our country right now was honoring God. Um the the way that we're letting barbarians across the border to to kill our own people, that's not honoring God.

[00:20:02]the the fact that we're putting our women and children's safety at risk by letting these people across the borders, that's not honoring God. Um, and the fact that our local church attendance has plummeted, that people have put faith aside, um, that people want short-term political solutions to to problems that actually take uh, a lot of um, you know, gritting your teeth and getting something done. Um, and I think that's why someone like Rupert Low in the UK has really appealed to people because he's come out and said, "Look, we got a lot of hard decisions to make.

[00:20:29]It's not going to be easy. I'm not going to give you this idea that there's a silver bullet to this. Um, but I think it really does start uh by coming back to identifying in the first place what we are as a nation. Uh, and then why we're worth why that's worth protecting and then from there the political solutions will come.

[00:20:45]>> You're happily just sitting here saying, "Yeah, we would you would gladly just watched us be watch Australians be demographically replaced in our own country because we're not willing to sit here and define it." Like this is the problem. Like >> I don't think you're defining it anymore than I am. Okay. No, no, you you haven't even you haven't I've not said it's just a white person. Stop trying to put words into my mouth.

[00:21:06]>> Sir, when we mentioned Ly Shelton's tweet before with that image of him at the the the Indian men's Christian uh gig, you would you would prefer to see a country that's predominantly 90% Angloeltic ethnically origin Australians, a small percentage of of migrants that are here um that are contributing to the country positively, not negatively. uh and a country that's giving opportunities for Australians that are born here. There's a there but and we've seen this argument before that if we bought in 20 million Kenyan Christians, it still would not be Australia. So Christianity has a place.

[00:21:41]There's no doubt about that. In a perfect world, you'd like to see that predominantly with an ethnic bloodline that comes from an Angloeltic bloodline or a eur European backed bloodline. Um but we don't just want to bring in anyone from around the third world just because they're Christians.

[00:21:54]>> No. Uh, and I think the people that are >> It's not very Christianly of you though, is it?

[00:21:58]>> But that's that's what it comes back to.

[00:22:00]And that's been really frustrating >> because that must be used against you quite often.

[00:22:03]>> Of course it is. And you've got all of the leftists in particular in uh in Facebook, you know, quote tweeting Bible verses they've never read. They've just looked up to to say that. It's like chat >> GPT. It's like that meme. It's like uh no, I hate your God and I don't believe in it at all, but yes, I'm going to try to guilt guilt [laughter] trip you about it. And Christians are falling for I would hate to be arguing theology and Bible verses with you.

[00:22:24]>> Well, I just [laughter] think the the so many um Christians really well-meaning find this topic tough and it's because there is nuance like the the fact that there are you know so many people struggling to find a definition. The fact that it's taken so long to get a proper discussion about this and a lot of people have put in good work over a period of time to do that. So, I thank them for that. Um but it's uh it's not a um it's not casting moral judgment. It's not casting moral judgment to say that we want to have nations. We want to have proud nations where people act in the interests of the people there to represent uh and where they build nations which honor God. And you do not build a nation by honoring God of having this multicultural um utopian uh what's it's dystopian at this point. Um this vision of everyone living together kumbaya with completely contradictory cultures uh worshiping different gods entirely. Um, I think there's great beauty in the fact that there are uh distinct roles um for men and women. I think there's great beauty in the fact that different nations throughout different uh throughout the course of history have achieved different things. Uh, and I don't see it as a necessarily bad thing to want that.

[00:23:33]Now, >> what's what's wrong with saying that we think we're the best?

[00:23:36]>> Well, I think Australia is the best. Of course, >> I think Australia is the best, but I also think our uh our ethnicity lends itself to that. I mean, it's a wonderful country that was built by a a race and a breed of people.

[00:23:48]>> Well, I think I think we're blessed by God um to have on average higher IQs uh than other races. Again, we we shouldn't see that as an achievement in and of ourselves. I think we are, you know, very very proud as a nation um to have been >> to have achieved so much in such a short amount of time. Like to have come from settlement to fully fledged nation in basically 100 years is insane. Yeah. Um, and I I just want to I just want to make sure that people are very clear on the fact, particularly Christians are clear on the fact that it's not a bad thing to love your country and to honor God. Um, and you're not going to honor God if you're um scared of being called names, which you know in your heart is not true. You know, you you know your own motives. And if your motives are impure, and I think you see that a lot with people who I would say are probably more so worshiping race above above God. Um, I I think that, you know, God will cast judgment on them. I leave that to them.

[00:24:42]Um, but I think for the Christian who's struggling this with this internally, uh, you just have to be honest with yourself. What are your motives? Um, are you doing this out of the worst part of you, as I think James put it in the interview. Um, or is it a part that no, I see my people are struggling. Um, I see my people need Christ. Um, and I see that our nation's got no way forward without Christ. Um, but it also has no way forward um, if it's a countercultural nation. So the difference between where your position is and my position would be pretty clear with this as well. Joe and uh James are very clear that anyone can become Australian provided that you have a Christian uh background that that it's as simple as that. But predominantly we don't import people that that come from Christian backgrounds. So the majority of people that we're bringing in here are Hindus and Muslims or they're atheists in in general. And and to be honest with you, I find the concept of bringing in atheists actually more unappealing than bringing in people that actually have some faith at all. So I I although it's probably easier to convert an atheist to Christianity than it is to convert someone from Islam or Hinduism, mate. I was in Bali recently. I spoke to a Balines person and said, "Do you consider yourself Balines or Indonesian?" He goes, "In Indonesian?"

[00:25:52]>> I'm Indonesian. I mean, they live on the B the island of Bali. They're Hindu.

[00:25:56]Indonesia is predominantly a Muslim country, >> but he still considers himself Indonesian. He didn't consider himself a breakaway of the Indonesian nation.

[00:26:04]>> And it it just makes it goes back to what you said there. It makes no sense.

[00:26:08]If anyone can become Australian, then no one is Australian. Like it just doesn't it it can't be. And this is really the argument and I think there's um there should be great caution with the people that push the sort of civic nationalist point where it's all this is all about values and stuff um because it just means there's this constant sliding scales of what an Australian is based off arbitrary things. So if we're going off well what values is it the Austral official Australian government values on the citizenship test because they change from government to government >> and people can lie on them when they come in. There's nothing stopping that.

[00:26:40]Um, but why is our why is our values as a as a nation which used to be distinctly Christian and distinctly Angloeltic? Well, that's changed. So, what's to say that's not going to change again and again and again? Well, it does. Um, so I think it's just incoherent to say that uh it's a values-based proposition to be Australian. Now, is it a values-based proposition to be a contributor to Australia? Yes, I would say so. I think you can have people that contribute extraordinarily well that aren't Australian. And I think you can have a [ __ ] ton of dull budges that are Australian. Um, but overwhelmingly I think those things are out of proportion. Uh, and I think uh that Australians are struggling at the moment. Uh, they want their nation back and uh I think a lot of people that are in hardship uh would be doing a hell of a lot better if we'd kept our nation.

[00:27:26]>> I have a I do have a problem with the ethnically Australian thing that you you're banging on about now. So what is it?

[00:27:34]>> Well, because I don't think it's intellectually rigorous as a concept. Um I I don't think that um like what is an ethnic Australian >> Anglo Celtic and or European indigenous Australian ethnic so >> that's that's what ethnically we because there's a difference between ethnic Australian and then Australian citizen like >> we have a lot of temporary visa holders here. There's 2.9 million of them and you know the uh the ALG's policy is that we need to look at starting to remigrate a bunch of temporary people here not citizens. Let's be clear about that.

[00:28:03]have never ever said that we need to deport citizens out of Australia or remigrate them. The the what we need to be looking at is taking pressure off our country by removing people that are here temporarily that you know we're invited here to be guests and now it's time to say goodbye to some of those guests to create opportunities for Australians. I mean because we know we have a lack of housing, we have a lack of infrastructure, it's expensive to live here. Inflation's off the charts. All of this stuff is being fed by governments that just want to keep pumping people in here like crazy with a pathway to citizenship now. And then they will tweak the census when we do that census data to make it look like it's not that bad.

[00:28:40]>> That we know they do that, but we can see the pattern of that and they'll continue doing that unless it gets called out. I guess that's probably a long way to lead into the next question, which is >> you said you've been waiting a long time to have this debate or to watch this conversation unfold. 12 months ago, this conversation was mostly being had by people from the NSN or National Socialists and and those guys are real ethnationalists, right? The hardcore guys. [clears throat] And you've watched this evolved since then. It's heading into a place now that's become a little more exciting because it's actually a bit more mainstream. Do you think that it was a bad thing than the way they kicked this off?

[00:29:18]>> I don't think it's more exciting because it's mainstream. I think it's more exciting because it seems to be um lending itself more so to a Christian way of thinking. And I think as a Christian, Christ is the way, the truth, and the life.

[00:29:30]>> And I don't think and I think any mo any movement, not just necessarily the Australian nation, but any movement that is separate from him is going to fail.

[00:29:38]That's what I think. So I think the fact that um you know, compare the 31st of August rally, even in Brisbane, the one that you guys ran, I came to all of them. uh you compare the the sort of messages that were pushed there compared to the one on Anzac Day or the day after Anzac Day down in CRA and it is far more firm line of this is this is what Australians are uh and Christianity is what our nation >> well admittedly I mean even my own journey to this and uh you know I'm not ashamed to have said it is that back on August 31 I would have considered myself way more closer to being aligned with being a what they considered a civic nationalist and that was actually used against me by a bunch of people as well.

[00:30:14]I mean, my position was always, let's shut the shut the bloody gates. We got to shut the gates so we can have a conversation about what the future of Australia looks like. And I said this emphatically, we want to debate what the future of Australia looks like.

[00:30:25]>> Yeah, >> we're having that debate. These conversations are being had. You know, Sam lit that debate up this week and we've watched people melt down about that [ __ ] We've been having these conversations. You know, we've done this a number of times now. the work that you've been doing over the last years, you know, with the Red Union and everything you've done, it's about pushing this debate further. We want to talk about what the future of Australia looks like. And admittedly, I came to this with the perspective that a anyone can be an Australian, provided that I called them, so long as you're a good bloke versus a bad person, you basically could be Australian. But what I understand now is that you can lose the identity of Australia being surrounded by good people. Yeah.

[00:31:03]>> That aren't culturally Australians.

[00:31:05]>> Yeah.

[00:31:05]>> They're not Australians.

[00:31:06]>> That's true. And the good people thing which is used by the left currently and it will be for for some time is completely overblown. I mean it's completely out of proportion of the you know the contributors versus [clears throat] the bludgers.

[00:31:19]>> It is overwhelmingly there there are far too many people coming in taking benefits that they have no entitlement to whatsoever. And I think it's important to make the point because we've said it a few times now around the Angloeltic [snorts] identity of our country. Why that's important. Now is that just because we're both Angloelts?

[00:31:36]um is that just because you know it's what our country has been and we would like it to sort of be that way. It comes back to this. It's uh the founding ancestry of our country. Uh it is an absolute imperative for any nation to have an overwhelming collective identity. And without that without that there is no room really uh for assimilation to happen. There will be no assimilation. And that's what we've seen in Western Sydney in the suburbs of Melbourne. You've got ethnic enclaves happening at the moment because there is no predominant culture. There is no predominant identity. So it's not just oh we would like more of our people around and this is sort of the case. It is we won't be a nation any longer. Like we we need to have a coherent nation um with with shared values. Yes. With a shared identity I think in Christ. Um but it's it's it will confound in on itself. It will attack itself. And we're seeing this. It's it will become countercultural if we don't have that distinct uh nation for people to uh add to.

[00:32:38]>> Can't even define an Australian, bro.

[00:32:40]What is an Australian? What is an Australian? Okay. No, shut up. You define what an Australian is. How many times have I done it? I've done it four times now.

[00:32:49]>> An Australian is a Anglo Celtic, European, and or indigenous descent person. That's what I think demographic.

[00:32:56]>> So, a white person. So, then you say >> I literally said European. European covers like Italy, Greek, the majority of Europe because a lot of people migrated from Europe.

[00:33:06]>> Every community is allowed to have their identity except for the Australian ethnic community as well. I mean the guys from the BAC, what does BAC stand for?

[00:33:13]>> Australian community.

[00:33:14]>> That's it. Um, great guys. Harry's a good fella, you know, and um they caught flack for that, for being that community. Whereas we can have an Indian diaspora and a Fijian diaspora and >> god we got everything in Australia here, right? But as soon as you want to identify as, well, this is my diaspora, dude. No, that's that's a hard no here.

[00:33:32]You guys are racists, you know, that that card gets pulled out really easily.

[00:33:36]>> And I think that's the point.

[00:33:37]>> You can't have diasporas within countries either. You know, we either do have a shared, you know, assimilation here or or we have nothing. I mean, I get as well. I mean, you can drive past the German club in West B, you know, in Brisbane here down near the Gaba there.

[00:33:49]These things happen, you know. We have these, you know, these groups or these clubs and these people used to congregate there. So they'd be around some of their own people, but they didn't create whole suburbs or whole communities that were just them. They would gather at a community place, but they would actually integrate with the rest of Australia. Big difference.

[00:34:06]>> And they certainly wouldn't appeal to ethnic voting block blocks at elections.

[00:34:10]I mean, you've got a massive sectarian voting trend across the US, the UK, Australia. Yeah.

[00:34:16]>> And it's really worrying because it goes against everything our nation is about, which is having a collective identity of being.

[00:34:22]>> I see this in education all the time, though, too, cuz I saw a photo the other week of the graduating year 12 um cohort at King's College.

[00:34:30]>> There was like two white people in there, dude. I mean I mean it shouldn't matter. Skin color shouldn't matter. But that that that whole cohort was mostly Asian and Indian people now.

[00:34:41]>> Yeah. Yeah. And I think the issue for so many of um the Australians going into schools is that they're like I touched on >> you would see this in education.

[00:34:47]>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, obviously in my role with the TPA, we do a lot of work around the curriculum, what's in there, what's being taught to kids. Um and they're taught to hate their country. Um you know, but >> so you got a whole bunch of migrant children there that are being taught that to hate Australia.

[00:35:02]>> Yeah. Well, you got that and then you've got Australian kids themselves saying, "Hey, you got nothing really to be proud of. Like this is why we say sorry. This is, you know, what the Australians had.

[00:35:12]Sorry, day, didn't we?

[00:35:13]>> H Yeah. Reconciliation week. There's the um public alert, which the only the only reconciliation that matters is your reconciliation with Christ. It is that simple. I don't think it's a coincidence.

[00:35:23]>> You don't have to sell that message to us anymore. We get it, man. We get it.

[00:35:26]>> I don't think it's a coincidence that they uh they took that uh reconciliation.

[00:35:30]>> They took that out. Yeah, I know, man.

[00:35:31]>> Um but yeah, we see it in education a lot. Um and it's really worrying. Um, and obviously we're going to, you know, schools are part of communities and if there are ethnic enclaves, there's going to be schools where there's very few Australians at them.

[00:35:42]>> The barbaric world, okay, the barbaric non-Christian world, genital mutilation, human sacrifice, um, cousin marriage, widowing, honor killings, widow burning, >> this disgusting [ __ ] slavery, all of these things that we have gradually >> taken out of our culture over many, many, many thousands of years. These things existed in Ireland, too. It's not just it's not just um isolated to the um the brown world or black world either.

[00:36:10]>> You know, I was talking to someone the other day about the message that's being sold to people who are looking to migrate to Australia is that Australia is a multicultural country. They're not actually being sold the idea that there is an ethnicity to Australia. They're actually being told that there's an indigenous culture here and that it has become a multi-ultural, multi-racial society. So these people are actually being sold an idea of Australia. They get here, >> we're having these conversations and Australia's trying to thrash out what it is at the moment >> and they must be going, "Hang on a second. This isn't what I was told that it was going to be like here." The other thing is the affordability part of it cuz a lot of them are moving here and going, >> "I got to work two jobs and 24 hours a day and sleep in the back of my Uber for hour here and there while I bust my ass trying to survive in this expensive country." They're not actually correctly.

[00:37:05]>> That's true. I think you'll still find even with that it's better conditions than there would be no doubt at all. But we see these guys are living 10 to a house, you know, for a reason because it's affordable for them and they're more comfortable doing it.

[00:37:17]>> Yeah. Exactly. But no, it's it's it's a big concern and I think we're having this with ration this out on the right side of politics at the moment. Um but the left wing is almost completely unified on what you said is the multicultural society. Australia is not really anything. Australia is multicultural. Yeah. And that's basically the answer they give. Anyone can become an Australian. And I just want to flesh out this idea of civic nationalism, I guess, or values-based Australianism. If it's based off your values and people's values change, does your level of Australianism change daytoday? [snorts] If you're in a bad mood or if you do good deeds, you become more Australian. Um, you know, was Naveiv Akram an Australian when he um up up until the point that he murdered all of those people on Bondi and then he just became oh unAustralian after that point or was he >> at that point he was a Muslim.

[00:38:07]>> Well well exactly but this is this is the >> he wasn't Australian anymore. He was a Muslim.

[00:38:11]>> Yeah. This is the absurdity about the debate. Then you've got someone like uh and we raised it the other day Malcolm Roberts who was born in India. Um, do you think uh are we to say because Navidid Akram was born here, he's more Australian than someone like Malcolm Roberts?

[00:38:24]>> Well, yeah. It's a good point to make.

[00:38:25]>> So, I mean, they're just two examples, but they show you've got to take these things to the to >> non-binary citizenship, mate.

[00:38:32]>> Exactly. [laughter] Exactly.

[00:38:33]>> Non-binary ethnicity.

[00:38:34]>> But if that's the case, it's like um it's obviously going to be disheartening if you're called non-Australian because you got the leftwing so brilliantly prosecuting this case that Australianism is just based off values. So if you're saying to someone, hey, you're not actually Australian, like in the truest sense of, you know, what our country is, what it has been, um then they're going to take that as a slight. And I and I feel for those people. Um but it's a conversation that has to happen nonetheless.

[00:38:58]>> I have with your position is that um it allows anyone that's come from Europe or Britain or who is indigenous to get the full the full word Australian. Like they on their Instagram bio, they can write I am Australian. But someone like me, I write I am Indian Australian or my five children that were born here, we are Indian Australian. You know, like I I feel like this is carving things out.

[00:39:23]>> That's what I'm that's basically what I'm saying.

[00:39:25]>> I think I know that's what you're saying. And I think >> and I'm not going to change >> and I think it creates a hierarchy and it also >> I think it creates a hierarchy.

[00:39:30]>> Well, it does.

[00:39:31]>> If if our kids started calling themselves [ __ ] Indian Australians, I swear they'd be grounded.

[00:39:35]>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, look, we've been uh it's a very leftwing thing to do is to try and shuffle things around and try and twist stuff into knots. I want to see us have a clear idea about what an Australian is. I don't think this is hard. I think we're getting to that point now. I go back to that point about August 31 last year and the call has always been that we wanted to have a debate about what the future of Australia looks like. This is that debate. It is happening right now. I saw comments yesterday saying that, oh, this is going to bog everything down and just rip people apart and it's going to destroy the movement. And and and my feedback on that was this is a part of the journey. This is a moment in time right now. we'll move on to the next topic after this and we'll continue to take our country back. That has to be our objective here >> for sure and I think it's uh the most I mean mass immigration is the biggest is is is an exist to our nation.

[00:40:24]This is ultimately where the discussion around mass immigration does lead to. Um we can all agree there's too many people coming in. Great. Okay. So is that the resolution like we just lower it by 15% and uh say all all's apples? No. It has to it has to come to this conversation.

[00:40:39]So I think it is it is a moment in time um for the right to be thrashing this out. Um, but it is it is one of the most important conversations. Like it is so important uh in the history of human civilization where nations forget who they are, can fight in on themselves, let the barbarians in, um, >> divide and conquer.

[00:40:56]>> 100% 100%.

[00:40:58]>> I wish the people that weren't Australians, who actually don't have any real skin in the game here, would just piss off out of this argument and leave us alone.

[00:41:05]>> That's what I need to see happen. And it's going to make me angrier as we go forward watching this.

[00:41:09]>> Yeah. I mean, uh, it's just it's a matter of well, you you've left your country to come here to ours.

[00:41:15]>> Y >> um, if for if you've left your country for a better life, you're leaving for material things and what Australia has to offer.

[00:41:23]Yeah.

[00:41:23]>> This is the difference. And when they say everyone's immigrants, we're not all immigrants.

[00:41:27]>> We're settlers. We're descendants of settlers. We're descendants of pioneers.

[00:41:30]We're descendants of people who were descendants of convicts who who fought their way out of chains as they got here. Um, it is an incredible history.

[00:41:39]and those people who built this country.

[00:41:40]You're not the same an immigrant coming here to take take advantage of our very and far too generous welfare system.

[00:41:48]>> Far too is not uh the same in the immigrant sense as us who are descendants of settlers of people who built this country. It is not the same to come to a fully developed uh western nation 250 years later and claim all the benefits without putting in any hard work as being descendants of people who built the nation. I'll cut this clip in here. Okay. So, if someone comes, she's been here for 20 years. If someone comes over from Europe 20 years ago and speaks with a broad Australian accent, then they just purely because of their race, they're an Australian in your view. So, you ask me, do I think that's Nazi?

[00:42:20]Well, it's not Nazi cuz you're not talking about gassing Jews or whatever, but it's like but it's a racist ideology. Yes.

[00:42:26]>> Okay. I'm happy to be called racist then racist. It's the definition of the word.

[00:42:31]>> Okay. Well, I am happy to have a racist ideology then. That's fine.

[00:42:34]>> It's up to you. I don't I don't really care. But if you're asking my opinion, that's my opinion.

[00:42:38]>> Okay. So, what what is an Australian?

[00:42:41]>> I view an Australian is someone who comes here because everybody came here, right? So, you know, cuz even like these the Brits that came here, they're ethnically British. Like your parents are ethnically British, right? Like you talking about ethnically Australian. I'm not sure that there is such a concept, Scott. And Sam, >> sorry, Sam. Um, one of the things that James did as well was tied himself up in Nazi trying to associate Sam as having some kind of Nazi philosophy, mate, or leaning into Nazi ideologies. What's your thoughts about that?

[00:43:12]>> Uh, well, I think it's the sort of thing that you've you'd come to expect from the left. Um, so I guess it's disappointing to see on the right. I mean, maybe he's just trying to flesh out, you know, take it to its to extreme the debate. So, um, you can sort of get first principles, but [clears throat] I don't think, uh, Sam's, I mean, I know Sam, I don't think he's motivated by that sort of, uh, that sort of ideology.

[00:43:34]I don't think he's necessarily race worshiper. I don't think that he thinks, um, white people are morally superior to, uh, other people.

[00:43:41]>> I never got that from the conversation at all. No. You know, and I've I've seen people commenting now that, you know, Sam doesn't think that they're Australian. He never said that. He never said that they weren't Australians or that Joanna wasn't Australian. Yeah.

[00:43:55]>> He he identified that she's an Australian of Indian descent of eth ethnicity. And she's like, "Well, I was born in England."

[00:44:03]>> Yes, you were to Indian parents.

[00:44:05]>> So, she's still she's still an Australian of Indian English >> origin, I would call it. I don't see how that's hard for people.

[00:44:13]>> No, I don't I don't understand either.

[00:44:15]And that's um the debate was interesting to watch. Um I think, you know, it's a broader discussion that's happening at the moment. I want to commend um Joanna How. I know you've spoken to her fair few times. I mentioned this on our podcast.

[00:44:25]>> Yeah, to that. She's awesome.

[00:44:26]>> Thursday, she's incredible. And the work that she's doing, like she's the leading advocate for the unborn in the country.

[00:44:32]Um there's there's no more important role in my mind than that. Uh and I think her calling from God to be able to do that is um far supersedes being yet another voice in the civic nationalist vers, you know, nationalist debate. Um but yeah, I I wish her well.

[00:44:47]>> Yeah, absolutely. I don't look at Joanna and think any less of her or her Indian ethnicity like the Indian bloodline that she has. She didn't really want to identify herself in any way as being part Indian. It's like she didn't want to want to bar of it. She she didn't feel any real connection to it. What's your thoughts on that?

[00:45:07]>> Yeah, I mean there's there's I guess it differs from person to person. Um you know some people feel a strong connection to the homeland. I know you mentioned when you went to the UK, you know, you felt like, you know, this is where where we came from.

[00:45:19]>> That was in the '90s. I'm not sure going back there now would feel like that.

[00:45:21]>> Yeah. Well, I remember [laughter] I went I went over there for the Ashes in 2023 and I stayed in Birmingham and goodness gracious me, it was uh it was something else.

[00:45:30]>> Pretty mucky now.

[00:45:31]>> Well, walking through these entire neighborhoods that are, you know, Muslim run, >> you would have seen parts of I mean, going to the ashes, [clears throat] mate. I mean, you know, I we had this conversation with George Malis in the chamber the other night was, you know, I felt a deep DNA connection when I was went to the UK and and was walking around there going, I know I come from a part of this. I could feel it in my bones, mate. You know, >> 100%. And I think that uh you know, people who come from other nations, particularly as adults, Joan's case, he was younger, but um you know, you can't you can't get rid of that connection.

[00:46:04]And it's not it's not a bad thing that you can't like you're a human being.

[00:46:06]like this is part of you know what you've become. Um and I think that you know trying to die to one country's um identity and then you know live to a different country's identity >> um I think it's harder than than people realize and it doesn't change the reality. It doesn't change the reality that you're not Australian.

[00:46:24]>> When I um going back in time here graduated uh from my recruit training in the Air Force uh we uh you know military parade ground formation pipe and drums band right >> pipes and drums. I can hear that now and I still feel this deep connection in my soul that says charge machine guns, you know, and and and and it wasn't because of a military training. It was purely because instinctively inside of me, those pipes and drums represented a part of our culture, our lineage, our ethnicity that connected that to pride in ourselves and going and whether that was going to war or the pride in our country in sport, whatever, it didn't matter. I still hear hear pipes and drums. I still get that same feeling >> 100%. And there's something just absolutely brilliant about the British Empire at its peak. It is uh inspiring to have been part of that. And I think uh we have a real crossroads at the moment where Australia as a nation has >> advantages that no other nation in in in the world has. Um we're handicapped by our own self-hatred. We're handicapped by our ability to define who we are >> because we cannot defend what we cannot define. And our country has an enormous opportunity ahead of it to be incredibly prosperous, incredibly uh self-sufficient, independent, independent on energy, independent on um defense, independent on all these things. We have an amazing ability to unlock all of this potential for our country uh and to become what I think uh we were set out to be in the first place, which is, you know, a global superpower.

[00:47:56]>> But what's the trend though? Everywhere we turn, mate, everyone I talk to at every single government department, every single industry, everywhere I turn, all I see is people saying this isn't working. Whether that's from energy to transport to infrastructure to education to to build the building industry where I'm at, >> nothing is functioning properly anymore, mate. Now, when you say unlocking the potential for our country, dude, where I, you know, I feel like we're gridlocked here. Like, I feel like we're completely stuck. And people would say that this argument about who we are is uh a diversion away from trying to solve those problems. But in my mind, this is a critical part of the journey towards that.

[00:48:34]>> Oh, 100%. It has to be. I mean, you know, if we we're talking about trying to restore our nation, um we can't, you know, avoid the conversation of what our nation is, what our people are. And I think there are so many there are so many problems. I think one of the big problems is that um you know as a consequence I believe of our diminishing faith, our diminishing um you know service of something greater than ourselves has been the fact that we don't want to serve our country has been the fact that um we don't want the difficult decisions. We don't want to hear a politician that says something like Robert Low says that this is going to be difficult.

[00:49:06]>> I want to hear it.

[00:49:07]>> Well, generally speaking, I do as well, but generally speaking, as a country, we people want quick fixes. People want, oh, I'll give you 250 bucks. Oh, I'll >> you don't think you don't think elbow CGT um changes and uh you know and changes to the taxation system are the quick fixes that people are looking for.

[00:49:25]>> You mean the thing that he that he made it impossible for even more impossible for young Australians to buy a new bill.

[00:49:31]You're a young Australian Ed. You're under 25. You just got married. You're aspirational.

[00:49:36]>> Do you feel like the ladder has now been extended a little lower for >> I feel so great that every investor in the uh country is going to be looking to buy the exact houses that [laughter] we would want to build. That's a boss. So, >> and not only that, but why would you sell right now when you're going to get screwed in the excuse screwed in the ass gain stacks, mate?

[00:49:53]>> Yeah. Yeah. Um, so no, I I >> I don't you don't feel like your aspirations have been fed.

[00:49:59]>> No. And the and one of the things in the budget was uh that they underestimated migration. So, [laughter] that's gone up even more. So, it's like, oh, great. Uh, here's some more demand from, you know, wealthy property investors here. And also, here's 65,000 more migrants than we expected. Australia just uh completed the least amount of houses in the last 12 years, mate. This last 12 months record low in the projection in the budget was that I think over the next 5 years that we would we would be building at the pace which we only maintained for one year I think 2011 or something >> and that was a freak year. Yeah. And a freak year and and also one of the really important parts of that was the building codes were really different back in the you know 2010s 2011s to where they are now. the National Construction Code back then. There is no comparison to what you were allowed to build 15 years ago compared to today.

[00:50:46]Yeah. And not only that, we've made it intrinsically harder, more complicated, more expensive, and less productive.

[00:50:50]>> Yeah. 100%. And then government spending just goes up on a state level as well. I mean, in education, >> print money, print money, print money, >> printing money. Yeah. Quantitative easing. It's uh it's killing us. It's killing us. And it's killing the services as well because it really lends itself to inefficiency. There is no the incentive structure in the country in the government departments in business now as well. It is all backward. It is warp. The incentive is um to have poor results to get more funding to line your own pockets while results do not improve. And we've seen this in education where I work. There's never been more money thrown at education.

[00:51:23]Results have never been poorer. It's insane. Uh teachers have never been more upset with the with the conditions, with the pay.

[00:51:29]>> Well, the attrition rate must be huge.

[00:51:31]>> It's massive. the turnover is incredibly >> but they'd be fudging the numbers to make it look like that, you know, um because I can make any report look like what I need it to be, you know, oh well overall the uh the nap plan scores say that our children are doing better or you know that the teacher retention is great that overall on the scale of education we're actually doing quite well.

[00:51:50]>> Yeah. I mean, where it suits, they'll use a per capita figure to say, "Oh, see this is improved for X, Y, Z." And then where it suits, they'll use a raw figure. Like the Queensland government the other day was saying, "Oh, there's 1,000 more teachers now than this time last year." And it's like, >> you would hope like the population boom has been been massive and you've got like all these graduate programs. You would hope there would be more teachers.

[00:52:12]Um, so yeah, it's uh it's dishonesty at a government level, but it's it's the fact that our incentive structure is is so poor and there's um an incentive to be inefficient. Um I mean with the NDIS, you look at that. Um >> Yeah. Yeah. And and we're on, you know, there's a piece that I'm working on at the moment where uh it was actually Tony Blair that said no country can take itself seriously when it spends more on welfare than it does on defense. And Australia does that. We're about to spend $65 billion on the NDIS and welfare uh the NDIS alone in this next 12 months. Um and we're only going to spend $40 billion on well only 40 billion on 43 billion I think it is on defense. So our disability budget exceeds our defense budget by an absolute mile.

[00:53:01]>> Yeah. which sort of um you know it's the two competing interests of looking after your own people because I think it is a virtuous nation that looks after those who can't look after but goodness me it's gone far too long far the other side >> that's cuz we've made [ __ ] so expansive too I mean looking after people has become really expensive I mean I know people that have intensive NDIS um and I've spoken to a lot of people about the NDIS stuff because we've done a bit of work on it is um you know it's a million dollars for care for one person for one year and I'm like you know I mean I I understand she's 70 years old and you know she can't look after herself and I I get it but [ __ ] me a million dollars >> providers are roing it.

[00:53:38]>> Is this really where we're at? It's a million dollars to look after this lady for one year.

[00:53:42]>> Yeah. And it's sort of it's become an industry and people have made profits of it. So it it's far more electorally unpopular now to even even cut it and people like you and I want it. Um you know massive changes to the NDIS particularly with the rot. Um but there's this it's this backwards incentive you see with childcare as well. They are so hesitant to extend child care subsidies to stay-at-home parents who are looking after and and homeschooling their children um because there's an industry which is you know good for the GDP um in in the childare industry.

[00:54:14]>> Yeah. But those childcare workers would be in which union?

[00:54:17]>> Exactly. The one that contributes to the labor.

[00:54:19]>> Yeah. And it's like, you know, when they start punching out about TA places and, you know, like uh, you know, extended uh, TA services and TA has a graduation rate of 14%, I think it is, you know, success rate. U, but they just created a whole bunch of new teachers for the teachers union, right?

[00:54:34]>> Yeah, that's it. That's it. And we're trying to get the laws changed in Queensland, which will hopefully translate so we can register as a as a registered union. And um, yeah, we're not affiliated with any political party.

[00:54:43]>> How is it? We're nearly coming up to nearly two years of of a crucified government that that hasn't happened yet. Well, how is that, Ned?

[00:54:49]>> Well, uh, the Industrial Relations Act is being reviewed. Uh, we put our submissions in. I think the reviews close. The submissions deadline is the 31st of, uh, May. Um, so there's going to be a process now. Uh, we'll see how long that process takes. Um, but we're very, very hopeful that the government will do what's right and basically give workers the choice to join whatever union they want. If they want to join the one that spends $400 on left-wing campaigns like legalizing prostitution, pushing abortion, giving all the money to the Labor Party, they can do they can do that. They should be able to [laughter] choose. But if they want to join one uh that's not aligned to a political party, they should be able to choose that, too.

[00:55:24]>> Mate, before we wrap it up today, I want to talk a little bit about politics if you don't mind. And uh the uh the rise of One Nation, the continuing rise of One Nation. You were down in Craber with us on the 26th of Have we spoken since then? I don't think we have. No, I don't think so. Uh, I went to Peru. Uh, and I I only just got back the other week anyway, so I've been away.

[00:55:40]>> You came down to Camber, you spoke at the rally. You saw the reception that Pauline got down there. What's your thoughts?

[00:55:45]>> Look, she's she's riding the coattails of >> She's a rockstar.

[00:55:48]>> Yeah. And uh the massive results in um the Faraby election as well.

[00:55:53]>> Um yeah, there's a there's a big political shift. There's a political shift happening. I don't think it's in its final form. Um I'm I'm you know I've said on the record many times I think any movement that's apart from Christ will fail and I I don't see um you know some of the apparatus that's there for not just One Nation but the Liberal Party obviously the Labor Party um they're very very much apart from that and they will do what what's politically politically convenient. I think One Nation are making a lot of the right moves at the moment. Um >> I think they're still very much on the wrong side of the debate that we just um spoke about. Um, but I I think people are politically homeless and and they're going there. I think they believe in a lot of the things that One Nation is saying. Um, but yeah, I wonder if it's uh >> Do you think they can translate what has become a professional protest vote machine into a a party of government?

[00:56:42]>> Well, I mean, that's the task ahead of him. I'm not sure. It really comes down to the people that are that are running the place. You know, Pauline Anson, James Ashby, people like this. So they are are they the guys that are going to um basically save the basically save the country? Are they the ones that >> could they do any worse than what's current the current crop that are running the joint?

[00:57:02]>> I don't think they could do anything worse, but I think far better is required. Um you know might be a slightly slower decline. Who knows? But um there are there are a lot of uh impressive policies that One Nation has.

[00:57:13]Um but I I think it's uh it's early days. It's early days.

[00:57:17]>> It's it's late in the game though still like we you know we're coming down. and we're chewing down the barrel uh the end of 2026, you know, coming up and uh the next federal election is in 28 if it runs full term, you know, and um I still think that there's a possibility that if especially now that the Labour Party and Elbow in particular federally are starting to see some of their base erode over to One Nation as well that they don't call an early early election and go for it.

[00:57:42]>> Yeah, it could happen. I mean, you saw some of the modeling that came out uh I think from uh Red Bridge it might have been um that One Nation end up on 53 lower house seats uh Labour on >> insane. Something like that is is crazy to see happen. Um >> I think uh that's obviously bored their spirits. Um but on a on a national level if something like that would happen.

[00:58:03]>> Do you think they'd wait to wait and see what happens in Victoria in November?

[00:58:06]Victoria being the ultimate socialist litmus test. Well, that'll be interesting because uh yeah, I mean I think there's a there's a massive swing that's on there. Um I think the Liberal Party down there has been plagued with so many different issues for such a long time. I mean, arguably one of the worst divisions in the country.

[00:58:20]>> Um and One Nation have been rising there. I think the resultant opinion by election was pretty strong. I think it was about 20%. But I think they ran third.

[00:58:29]>> Um and yeah, it'll be it'll be interesting to see it'll be interesting to see what happens over the next little bit of time, but we haven't got much time. So, um, a lot of this progression, I mean, there's an argument for accelerationism. I want these things to happen. I want the mistakes to happen quicker. Um, so I think if you're trying to get involved in politics, do so. Um, now is the time. Uh, and, uh, yeah, continue to evolve your thoughts. Um, continue to, you know, really answer that question of, uh, what you want our nation to look like.

[00:58:56]>> And so, what do you think about Tony Abbott being elected as president of the, uh, the Libs nationally?

[00:59:00]>> Uh, look, I think it's >> I mean, I know you got to be careful with what you say. I think it's look, I think it's too little too late. Um I I'm not confident in in what's going to happen there.

[00:59:11]>> Yeah.

[00:59:12]>> Yeah.

[00:59:12]>> Yeah. That's uh look, you know, don't get me wrong, I like tones. Um you know, I like what he stood for back in the day, but I, as you said, I think it's also too little too late. And I think that uh the entrenched rot is going to be very hard to dig out of there. Now, you you know Graeme Hayoft obviously very well and Heath God who got suspended and then expelled from the Liberal Party in the last couple of weeks as well. Yeah, >> they're working with the Liberal Reform that created the Liberal Reform Association to try and change the party.

[00:59:38]One of the things that I've noticed about One Nation is um kind of like the Liberals top down structure, not very member-ledd. Um that that I'm I'm very critical of that. I think the future for conservatism, if we're going to call it conservatism, if there is a right-wing in Australia politically, needs to be more memberdriven. I think that's crucial.

[00:59:59]>> Yeah, I think it is too. I think it is too. I think um people have got to have strong branch [clears throat] structures. I think people have to be far more involved on a local level. I think that's where politics starts. Um and uh yeah, [snorts] I I think there's a bit of a move for that. Um but the right are historically very very bad at setting up branch structures and and being able to run I mean at least in the last 30 years and being able to run campaigns from a local level. So we'll see what happens.

[01:00:25]>> Yeah, I guess uh interesting times ahead. Ed, thanks for coming in today.

[01:00:29]We'll cut some clips into this conversation with regards to Dr. Joe and uh and James and Sam. Anything else you wanted to add from that conversation before we finished up?

[01:00:37]>> Matt, I think that's about all. I think we've covered [clears throat] a fair bit. It's interesting times ahead. Um but yeah, don't avoid the uh the hard discussions. I think it's I think it was also good that Sam and Joe and James came together at the end and said, >> although RV Yemen did cut that bit out of his clip that he posted online, that's not surprising. Um but yeah, they came together at the end and said, "Look, we're, you know, probably agree on 90% of, you know, general typical issues." I think the tough part is that the, you know, question of nationalism really is the number one issue at the moment. Um so we're going to see for our country at least. So we'll see where that all lands itself. But yeah, don't shy away from the discussions. Try to get over personal um you know, vindictiveness um from you know, you know, old grievances or whatnot. Um cuz we've got a country to save.

[01:01:20]>> Yeah, we do. We certainly do. Good on you, Ed. We'll catch up soon. Cheers, Scotty.

[01:01:23]>> Yeah, you can jump on the Australian lobby group website. You can also jump on the Australian March team. You can follow Shello Chell. It's a strange name, I know, but you search my name up, you'll find it, and you'll see the events that we're running around Australia, the mass immigration rallies that will be running till September to November. Keep your eye on the socials and uh get involved. Turn up, be one of the many thousands who are coming out a great dance to our music, listen to some great speeches, and help [music] build your country. Don't just sit back and go quietly into the night.

[01:01:50]>> [music]