Hyde or Practice - Stuck in a Rut?

Added: 2026-05-27

[00:00:00]that I you know it's like somebody actually so I don't know if Travis is going to join but Travis is like I really actually like having lunch and watching you guys talk and I was like that that's what we should do.

[00:00:14]>> What would you do? Well, I had a call that ran a little long and then I had another thing after this so I was like but luckily I brought my lunch.

[00:00:23]>> No, that's good. That's good.

[00:00:25]>> So I'm having a a delicious salad. Is it loud that I'm chewing? Nobody's here yet, so don't feel bad yet.

[00:00:31]>> I don't hear it.

[00:00:33]>> Oh my god. It's just loud in my head.

[00:00:35]>> Okay.

[00:00:35]>> Well, you know how like if you've got your like sometime if you got like headphones on.

[00:00:39]>> Oh, I see. Yeah. I don't I don't know if this sounds good or bad. I have the I have this plugged in because every single time after this like my my phone's about to explo It's like it's so hot.

[00:00:52]>> Okay.

[00:00:53]>> Yeah.

[00:00:56]>> Thank you. I don't like my whole life leaving you packing it.

[00:01:00]>> I know you don't. I appreciate that.

[00:01:02]>> Thank you.

[00:01:04]>> And this is how we know that we're real people.

[00:01:06]>> Real people getting deliveries.

[00:01:08]>> All right. So, in today's episode, but we're What are we talking about?

[00:01:12]>> What are we talking about?

[00:01:14]>> We're talking about being in a rut or like stuck in a rut. What happens when you, you know, and I think we talked about this like when we were doing that art basel panel >> and we were saying that >> you do the same thing over and over again and sometimes you just like don't think about it >> because you do exactly what it is that you know and you don't think about what else to do.

[00:01:38]>> Mhm.

[00:01:39]>> So >> and I see it everywhere.

[00:01:43]>> I see it like for artists. I see it for art professionals. I see it for art collectors.

[00:01:50]It's so easy and we don't realize that we're in a rut.

[00:01:54]>> Yes.

[00:01:55]>> It's so It's so easy to just be despondent and like bored and like maybe like a little resentful and like kind of have these like bad feelings and not realize that it's because we're in a rut.

[00:02:06]>> Yeah.

[00:02:06]>> We need to like >> expand and like see other things. We need new input. Also, you know, I think that like like for example, you and I, we read very similar things. We do very similar things.

[00:02:21]>> And so when I see you post or when I see you talk about what it is that you've been reading and it's like, "Oh, I read that."

[00:02:28]>> And I think sometimes when you get this confirmation bias that you're like, "Oh, everyone around me is what we read the same thing. We do the same thing. We go to the same shows, whatever." And then you're just like, "Oh, it's safe. So there's nothing else out there."

[00:02:41]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:02:41]>> And I like really have to say that >> there's so much out there. Like I was speaking to somebody and literally she had a list of I have never heard of any of these things. And I was like this is these are all things that are in New York. And she was like, "Yeah." And I was just like, "But I'm in New York like so often. I've never seen any of this.

[00:03:03]This doesn't come up in any of my feeds.

[00:03:05]Like nothing." And I was just like, "Okay." Like just different. It's just so many different I did I was working on this article and then I kind of scrapped it because I sounded a little bit like a self-important [ __ ] but it was good.

[00:03:18]It was a was an interesting actually exercise in like the journey and like what you can do even with something that doesn't become like a full thing. But I wrote out everything that I'm reading all on like on a regular basis, you know, and it's like my art forum, my gig go, my freeze, my gray market, you know, like all of the things that I'm reading and it's a really long list of things that I read regularly. But then I was looking at the list and I was like that's it, you know, like there's not like I'm not finding Hello. I do see you, Zoro. Um, I'm not finding like new voices, you know, like I'm not actively seeking out new voices. I'm not actively like finding like the weird stuff like I used to. Like I am really just sitting back and letting things come to me. And then like if there is an article that's going viral in like a different, you know, thing that I normally read, I'll read that. But like I'm not subscribing to October anymore just because What's his face had a viral article. like I read his Josh's article in October and then like that's it. You know what I mean? It's just like cool.

[00:04:25]Um but like that is and I do I'm like I'm not like reading anything new. Well, Alexis, whose fault is that? Substack has been helpful for like that in just on the reading front. And then like in terms of like galleries, it's so crazy.

[00:04:39]And I see this too and again like this is as an artist at friends as a professional and I see like collectors when they're kind of bitching about not like nobody's doing anything new and nobody's doing you know everything's too expensive and it's like where are you going?

[00:04:56]Are you going to the same five blue chip galleries and the same things like that?

[00:05:01]Like our friend Jeff Magid who I adore but he's always complaining that everything's too expensive and I'm like I see where you're going. Of course it's too expensive. like I've got eight galleries I can take you to right now and everything's under 10 grand. Um like it's just this is a problem of art your own making. But it's the same thing with me. It's like I'm just seeing the same stuff and it's like well you're going to the same very convenient galleries downtown and you're not seeing new things. But then I look at these CVS for these artists who are applying and there's like 10 names of galleries in LA that I've never even heard of. Not even like in passing I've never even heard of. And I'm like yeah because new stuff is happening but you have to find it out. You have to be hungry. You have to find it. What's this little cute purple thing, Zoro?

[00:05:42]>> Oh, that's cute.

[00:05:43]>> There's There's sad faces.

[00:05:45]>> Don't be sad. We see you. Um, and but so, but it's so easy to get into this rut >> and you have to you have to actively push out of it. It's like, >> you know, you know my theory about how everything's the gym. It's like going to the gym. It's like you can just keep doing the same muscles and the same whatever >> but it takes effort to like learn a new move and then like do something harder and like do you know or like to change to yoga or do you know a Zumba class like you have to actively do it. It's not just going to necessarily come to you. Like maybe it will. Maybe your friend's going to invite you to a Zumba class. Maybe friend's going to invite you to a different thing.

[00:06:23]>> Maybe >> but >> you have to like if you want it on your own.

[00:06:28]>> Well, I mean you do have to actually like look for it. It is it is work.

[00:06:32]actual like it is actual work that you have to do this.

[00:06:36]>> Mhm.

[00:06:36]>> So like I was recording um I was recording something on the weekend for some stock >> and one of the things that >> it reminded me of like why I had started doing these like simulations with AI is because I wanted to go and get myself out of a rut and I like recorded this entire tutorial about on like having a simulated studio visit. Like what does that look like if you're talking to a dealer and then you're talking to me and then you're talking to somebody who who is an art critic? Like what does that look like in real time and getting the different types of opinions that are just different, right? And I think sometimes like even talking to something that is simulated but is not it just gives you a different lens that you don't necessarily think about. And there's only like so much time for me at least looking at social media. And I think like because you follow the same thing, it's the same algorithm. It's the same same same same same same, right?

[00:07:35]And so all of a sudden you're just like, "Okay, so we're doing the same thing still." And it's partly because I'm following the same people that everybody else is following, right? Because like obviously there's a metric that we are working within. And so then I don't I'm just like, okay, so what's new? And then because we're similar in age, because we're similar in the same things, we're looking, reading, watching to very similar things other than like other than maybe things that are outside of the art world that is might be probably very different. But like if it's inside the art world, it's like very very similar stuff.

[00:08:15]>> Very similar.

[00:08:16]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:08:18]>> And that's rut inducing. And I think that like this is also when like our kind of golden memories of like being younger and how exciting things were then.

[00:08:32]Well, it was exciting because everything was new.

[00:08:35]Now nothing's new unless you seek out new things and and it's hard.

[00:08:42]>> But I blame it on I just don't have enough time nor bandwidth. And I think I don't I don't even wait for things. I just don't like I just don't and then I complain it's like oh wow this is really boring like I'm going to the same galleries every single it's the same route it's the same same same same same same same same same same and then sometimes when I go and venture out I'm a bit like oh wait like this is >> h this is not within my comfort zone and so I also don't like it >> this is just old age >> I think this is old thing it's the same thing like it's so easy now also I I think technology and the internet has made it so easy for us to be in our little echo chambers with our same art, same writers, same ideas that we forget that it's actually good to go and be bristling against something and to read something that you don't like and to hear voices you don't like and not don't like but don't agree with and like then you have to think about like do the work like why don't I agree with them? What is it about their argument that's bad? What is it about >> painting that's not interesting?

[00:09:49]>> For sure.

[00:09:50]>> Um, and it's hard to do that because it's so easy just to dismiss it, but it's so >> it's so beautiful.

[00:10:00]>> When did you move to LA?

[00:10:03]>> 2006.

[00:10:05]>> Technically 2005.

[00:10:07]>> Okay. So, I just moved to LA in 2005.

[00:10:10]>> Mhm. Um, and I don't I didn't discover anything at the very beginning when I when I moved. Obviously, there was there was no time. You were just drowning.

[00:10:23]>> Um, I I think that I actually didn't see anything in LA until like well into 2006, 2007.

[00:10:31]And >> was a good year.

[00:10:33]>> And I remember sort of people obviously very condescendingly said, "You don't go to galleries in the west side."

[00:10:43]>> Oh, that was that was Berg Bergammont Station days.

[00:10:47]>> Yes, that was totally Bergammont Station days. But like all because I I really I I interned um in at the Grove >> was hard in Pasadena at the time I would imagine.

[00:11:01]>> Yeah. Yeah. So I was interning at anthropology at the Grove >> and so I like this is like my my like group. It was like I would start my internship at 7 in the morning because I did merchandising, right? So I have to be there before the store opens to do merchandising, to do the windows and whatever. And so by the time I would leave it would be about like midday and then I would be in traffic and then we'll have to get back to to school and do my classes. So my classes would be like from 2 to 7 and then the last class would be 7 to 10, right? Like that's like the typical schedule that you would have.

[00:11:39]>> Um and so no, like I didn't see anything. I never did anything. I literally like went to work and went to my internships until people were just like you do know that like in between that like the Grove and Pasadena there's like a whole bunch of stuff and I was like there is and I remember like a a teacher who who became a mentor of mine.

[00:11:57]She was like, "You're such a driveby princess because you just you don't get out of the car." And I just like, "Well, yeah, I did grow up in Vancouver. Like, I I don't I don't know what's I don't know. Like, LA's so big. I don't know."

[00:12:10]>> But like, well, how are you supposed to find out? Like >> I think people just talked about it and I just you would have had someone had to tell you and then you'd have to print out a map quest so you could figure out how to get to someplace between your you know >> just like it wasn't like you could look at your phone and see things which I didn't by the way because I was like it I was like pretty determined to get on to the 10 to get back onto the 210 or the 134 or whatever it is to get into Pasadena to make it into class on time like I was pretty determined. So, >> you know, like but I I just remember there was like these pockets that people are just like, you know, there are things to see and you just drive by them and I was just like I didn't know that.

[00:12:58]>> I hate those people.

[00:12:59]>> Oh, I hate those people so much.

[00:13:03]>> Okay.

[00:13:03]>> Unless those people were giving you physical addresses of those places, then shut the [ __ ] up.

[00:13:11]Like if they weren't giving you directions, like if they weren't being like, "Okay, from the Grove, you can get to Loiaga and the Loiaga will take you to the 10, but if you go just a little bit further, there's a handful of galleries right there and you can see it if you've got time." You're driving by things without seeing them. Yeah, I've got places to go, man. You can't just like walk around Los Angeles. My god, there's like one good block for every 50 boring blocks. Like, how am I supposed to know which block is good? I I don't know. And then and then I stopped my internship at anthropology and then I worked at Dior. So I was in Rodeo Drive.

[00:13:48]>> Harder to get back.

[00:13:49]>> And that was even like more like it was so hard like it was so hard to to be like get back into Pasadena without being stuck in traffic. And it was like and so you're even more determined to get back into class on time because like >> nothing good comes out of it when you're late for class. No. So, I like I saw nothing until somebody was like, you know, there's a store that's called I'm pretty sure this doesn't exist anymore.

[00:14:14]Maxfields. Does Maxfield still exist?

[00:14:16]>> Does it? Okay.

[00:14:19]>> By Tommy Pur, James Pur's dad. Tommy's a big art collector.

[00:14:25]>> I did not know that there was an entire thing there.

[00:14:28]>> Oh, yeah. Well, why would you know?

[00:14:30]That's not even Maxfield isn't even close to Beverly Hills. Well, it's like really >> it's like in it's like in >> closer to West Hollywood.

[00:14:38]>> Yeah.

[00:14:39]>> But no, but like there's no way to know about those places unless you know or unless someone's telling you. But even for them to be like, "Yeah, it's off Santa Monica." And you're like, "Well, at that time like which one?" Like you have to have a map. I hate people. I hate those are the gatekeepers people complain about. Don't you know that there's other stuff? Tell me. Give me addresses. Give me names. Give me directions.

[00:15:03]Um, but so proud of myself for feeding myself so quickly. Um, but it is it's hard to like find like new things to see.

[00:15:16]And it's hard to be like I think the easiest way for me to get out of a rut is to watch a movie or a show or read a book that I normally wouldn't be like read. Like my my escapism lends very escapy. Like I like Marvel movies and I like you know airport books because my life is art and so like I have a lot of I need my escape my escapism to be very escapy and um so like for me to do something like read a serious book or like watch a serious like art film is the thing that gets me out of my rut because I'm like oh my god look at all these things that I'm thinking about um in a way that I haven't thought about in a long time.

[00:16:00]It's amazing. But the um Oh my god, I'm so excited about these.

[00:16:06]>> Look what I bought.

[00:16:11]>> Wow, that's big.

[00:16:14]>> That's huge.

[00:16:16]>> Yep, that is a big ass bandana.

[00:16:20]>> Wow.

[00:16:24]>> Okay, >> I don't know what I'm going to do with it.

[00:16:27]>> Is that the look now? I don't know what the look's going to be, but I was just thinking I want a bandana, but I don't want a regular one.

[00:16:37]So, I got some big ones.

[00:16:40]I'm excited about it, but they're literally called big ass bandanas.

[00:16:48]>> How many did you get?

[00:16:50]>> I just got two.

[00:16:51]>> Oh, okay.

[00:16:52]>> I just got two and they're like $10. Um, made in India. But speaking of rut, I'm trying to get out of a fashion rut.

[00:17:01]Hello, Cororean humans.

[00:17:04]Oh, Korean. Do I look Korean?

[00:17:08]That's exciting.

[00:17:11]Um, but yeah, but I saw I saw I Love Boosters this weekend. That was a great movie. That got me out of a rut.

[00:17:21]>> I have not seen a film in a long time. I also have this other problem that like if I'm if I have a film on, I walk out like I walk in and out. I don't pay attention.

[00:17:33]>> But I haven't been to a cinema in like a like so long that I cannot even tell you how long it's been.

[00:17:40]>> You should go see Boosters.

[00:17:44]>> It's an incredible It's incredible film visually, uh, executionally like the way that they like did it. There's like stop motion animation in it. Like there's just I can't even like It's so good.

[00:17:57]>> It's so unexpected.

[00:18:03]>> It's very uh I think it's interesting andor worth your time.

[00:18:07]>> I love boosters.

[00:18:09]>> I love boosters. It's got Kiki Palmer in it. She's great.

[00:18:17]>> I love boosters.

[00:18:23]Oh, that looks fun.

[00:18:25]>> It's really fun, but it's also really serious. It's great. It's like one of those like where like it's like one of those movies where they put in a good message about like the actual state of the world in the future. Um, but through like comedy and fun and like insane visuals and like concepts.

[00:18:44]>> Almost feel like something we would have had like in the 90s, but it's great.

[00:18:49]Well, I like what I like what has come up when I look this up on Google is just like it's colors. A lot of colors.

[00:18:58]>> So many colors.

[00:18:59]>> Yeah. Which I don't see very often anymore.

[00:19:01]>> No, it feels really good on the eyeballs to actually see that many colors.

[00:19:05]>> Oh, is this the one with the Oh, >> I saw this like clips of it on Tik Tok.

[00:19:14]Mhm.

[00:19:18]>> Putting tinted together now. That was slow of me.

[00:19:22]>> Yeah.

[00:19:24]>> Cool. I do think that like different types of references can be very inspiring. Like I used to really like watching very fantasy based films like Finding Neverland. That was probably one of like when I needed to make stuff and I needed to be inspired and I I like the way that they were doing like some of the cinematography like I really like that Peter Pan like I also really like that there's a theme going on here >> but I really like you know those like very kind of fantastical films.

[00:20:00]>> I think you'll like this then. I think you'd like it from a fabrication standpoint, honestly. Like the some of the sets that they build, some of the um Yeah, I I don't want to give away too much.

[00:20:12]>> Okay, cool.

[00:20:14]>> But I think that you would >> then I will go see this.

[00:20:18]>> Yeah.

[00:20:19]>> Cool. Anything else that you do for getting out of a rut?

[00:20:29]I really just forced something new, you know? It's I used to have a really I don't have as much time anymore, but like what I really used to do is um when I had more time and I wasn't and you know a very demanding job and husband and child that unfortunately take up so much of my time. I'm just kidding. I love you. But the um it's is I used to I used to force myself to go to do things that I think might look good on the gram. Like that was the easiest way to get me and try something.

[00:21:00]>> Like I really like would fake it till I made it. Like now, you know, it would be like, "Okay, I'm going to go to the show because I think it's going to look cool on TikTok." Like it's just like an excuse to go somewhere to give me myself content or I'm going to go to this hike or I'm going to go do this, you know? It really would.

[00:21:13]>> But then that got really tiring really soon, you know? Like when I see people do that, I'm just like, "Wow, that's kind of >> I only need I only need like a couple times before I'm like back inspired and then I'm back into my old rut again."

[00:21:25]But like it can one one or two things can really feed me for a really long time. Like going to that panel for D.Va at past at Art Center.

[00:21:34]>> Oh yeah.

[00:21:35]>> Like that fed me for a while. And I haven't, you know, I don't normally go to panels because most of the time they're very boring. Um, and that one made me very mad, but like still it was it felt good to be mad. You know what I mean? Like it felt good to be like riled up about something. Um, cuz it just got the juices flowing.

[00:21:55]>> Also, it's hard to get to art center.

[00:21:56]Like art center is so far.

[00:21:58]>> I know. But there's panels at Lacbon.

[00:22:00]There's panels at down the road. There's pan, you know, there's panels every there's talks everywhere. There's always, you know, there's dance classes and ceramics classes and paper lantern making classes. Like there's all this like stuff that we could be doing. We're just not doing it because we're not looking for it. But even like in terms of the the passive things that come into my emails about events and openings and all of this kind of stuff, like I don't even have to go far to look for something new. I just don't even read the emails anymore because so much of it is just like slap gross and I get bored. Um, but there's so many things that are happening that you just don't even have to like look far to do. Like Mocha last weekend, weekend before last, not not Memorial Day, they had like a huge like plant sale at Mocha with like people were selling plant like all these artists had like all of these great plants and different like little ceramics for your pots and like all of these different things. Yeah, it was this huge thing. I couldn't go because I was I was had an opening that night and I was like working at the gallery, but like how cool. And that wouldn't have been far out of my way. Like it's just like right there, but I just wasn't paying attention because I don't read my Mocha emails and that's on me.

[00:23:09]>> Fair enough.

[00:23:10]>> That would have been fun.

[00:23:11]>> Fair enough. Fair enough.

[00:23:14]>> What do you do to get out of a rut?

[00:23:16]>> No, I honestly my like nothing. Um, also I think partly and I I think I use this as an excuse and a crotch that Vancouver has much less to offer culturally than say like in LA or but like you know the problem is is that even when I go to LA or even when I go to New York I do the same thing over and over and over and over again. Um, and it's been only I got in back into this rut in New York like pretty quickly. So, and I then I then make a lot of excuses which is like, oh, I don't want to go Midtown because Midtown has a lot of tourists and I don't want to go there.

[00:24:00]Then I'll say, but I also don't want go I don't want to go up town. I don't want to go up to the upper east side because it's really far. Um, and then I have to walk. So really all that I do every time is I go to Chelsea just because Pace is there and I like have to laser focus to go and get to Pace and see the things around there.

[00:24:22]>> And then I come back down to the Lower East Side, Tribeca So and I do like and I do the same thing every single time. I think this is a me problem that I like have now defaulted >> and I don't do the research that I really actually should be doing before I go to New York and I'm just like oh it's always the same thing and and then I make the same type of content and I say New York always shows the same things it's always showing paintings and you know I was anticipating something different or you know like and it's just like I'm pretty sure it's like a me problem like I'm I'm pretty Sure. Which makes me think that maybe I should just come to LA because then I'm not doing the same thing and then you feel like you should go and figure out to go and show me something else.

[00:25:10]>> Well, no. It's it's you know, especially when you've got like it is I actually what I did is because I'm going to London next week. I have a friend of mine.

[00:25:18]>> Oh, they have so many good shows on.

[00:25:21]>> There are a lot of good shows.

[00:25:22]Apparently, it's like 95 degrees today.

[00:25:24]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They have a heat wave.

[00:25:27]>> Luckily, next week it's going to be normal. But my friend, I have a friend who because she's better at this stuff than me and I was like I was like, will you just like find like a couple like thrift stores like for like vintage places for me to go to that aren't Porttoella Road because >> I please give me some things. But then this is where it is. This is where community and networking work is is so important because it's like, okay, I'm going to London. I have the 12 things that I will do. I've got the galleries that I'll hit because I'll be in Mayfair and I'll be in Homeburn and I'll just, you know, I'll hit the galleries in between there and I'll go to the tape cuz I can walk there on my first day when I'm like totally delirious.

[00:26:04]>> Tate tape or tape modern >> modern.

[00:26:08]Um, sometimes I go to tape tape, but I you know shows >> it's a little difficult to get to and like the shows aren't changing enough for me to like make it a priority. And the British Museum is like walking distance from my hotel. So like I'll pop in there if it's a good show. Um and the um although the ticket situation now is a whole other thing. But anyway, so I'm I'm making some I'm making my friends now find me some things. So that could be the thing. Next time you go to New York, I'll find you some things.

[00:26:39]>> Oh my god. Yeah.

[00:26:41]>> Yeah. And then you can go see new stuff.

[00:26:43]But then you'll you'll have to do it even though it'll be a different trip or a walk or whatever than you weren't planning on because I told you to.

[00:26:53]>> So I think that's another thing. Rely on your friends. Get you out of your rut.

[00:26:57]Talk to your friends.

[00:26:58]>> Totally. This is a good idea. I can get I can find you places in in London for but I but you're going to have to get on the tube and go to like Dston and Hackne.

[00:27:08]>> I can get on the tube. I get them too because I'm gonna have um I'm gonna have like a full day uh on my own before I go. I give myself an extra day.

[00:27:17]>> Oh, I think Lizen has a whole bunch of openings. Have you do you want to go up to Edgear Road and go up to Lizen Lizen Grove?

[00:27:27]I just saw on I just saw on Instagram that there's a whole there's a cluster of them that are opening on by Lizen.

[00:27:38]Let's look. Yeah, I'll go. I'll go.

[00:27:42]Listen.

[00:27:45]Where is >> Listen. Give me a map.

[00:27:51]Listen. Gallery.

[00:27:55]>> Also not the easiest place to get to.

[00:27:57]It's like marble large and that you go like all the way up from Endor Road. Is Hold on. I'm This is so boring for anybody watching, but I'm orienting myself. Yeah. I mean, it's a Yeah, it's far, but like I can get on the [ __ ] I can get on the What's it called to get there?

[00:28:21]>> You can get on the bus. The bus is It's easier to get on a bus to go to Listen.

[00:28:25]>> Um >> Yeah, just a thought.

[00:28:28]>> Edgeware Road station.

[00:28:30]>> Yeah, it's on the Baker line. So, I notic Vic or Lou. Um, yeah, I can get there. I can get there. Uh, cuz I can go. Yeah, that'd be fun. I am going to go see a show. I'm making myself I'm buying a ticket ahead of time. I'm going to go see Oh, Mary.

[00:28:50]Um, and then so I'm trying I'm trying to get out of a rut. I need to get out of an LA rut. But you know what's interesting though? So, say so here so this is it. This is actually really good. Like Alexis like what are you doing to get out of a rut?

[00:29:03]Uh, my substack has gotten me out of a rut. My substacks got me out of my out of my like it's, you know, it's been a forced exercise in writing and it's been really good for like coming up with um ideas like working out that like idea of like what would people like? It it's making me observe things in a real way again because I'm trying to like come up with stuff that's not just like me like talking. Um, it's gotten me writing again. Ask me how many [ __ ] words in my book I've written this month.

[00:29:35]>> Didn't you already Didn't you tell me you've like written half of it?

[00:29:38]>> I'm at 45,000. I started on the first and I didn't write for a week.

[00:29:45]It's a problem.

[00:29:47]>> I might be in the middle I might be in the middle of a manic episode. We don't know. But but it's been nice because it's coming easier more, you I'm in the same way like you know anytime you're doing anything more and more and more it becomes easier and easier and easier to do more and more of it. So like now to bust out 1500 words a day I can do it like and it's it's great. Um and you got stack you write about art. I just got your email on that.

[00:30:17]>> Oh my email today.

[00:30:19]>> Yeah. Fix a gallery part two. You've got a Substack. I should actually see who you read on Subtock. I have a Substack.

[00:30:26]My subst is specifically about AI and figuring out how to go and think with AI. Um, so slightly different, but the both of us are writing about things.

[00:30:41]>> Yeah. No, you should. I mean, I I follow some good people on on Substack. My problem what I would love for I found out this about a friend's wife. She does this with Substack and I want to do it a little bit is she prints everything out at the end of the week, all of her Substacks, and she reads them like a [ __ ] like magazine newspaper because that's my problem with not following more. I would follow more, but I hate having more emails in my email and then when I get into the app, I don't read. But I need to start >> Oh, I see.

[00:31:12]>> You know what I mean? like I need to have um if I could read them physically and I might start doing that. I might just start like printing out when I get them. Um cuz I think I would read more. But I like love this idea on like Sunday of just like reading through my my week's subto stocks except for like the couple that like I always read Tims when they come up, you know, like there's a couple that I always read >> and there's some people that I follow just because of >> um but there's other people who um that uh I think that it could be I think it could be uh a good way to read more stuff.

[00:32:06]>> So rely on your friends, read more stuff.

[00:32:11]>> Read more stuff. I mean, I think that's really it's always the thing is it's your your if your if your input's not different, then your output's not going to be any different. Period.

[00:32:21]>> Fair. You cannot you cannot get to a different output without different input. And it's the same thing like you cannot fix a rut by doing the same stuff, watching the same shows, reading the same books, listening to the same podcasts. Sometimes the podcast if it's like you're talking to different people, sometimes it can be like interesting and new, but most of the time it's the same kind of, you know, um, stuff. And like that's the whole thing. And I I say this to artists too a lot because they're like, "Oh, I'm stuck. I'm stuck. I'm stuck." And I'm like, "Yeah." has like you need to get out. You've got to get out. You've got to go see some stuff. You have to see and like a place that you don't normally go. Like if I really was if I was really stuck, I'd be heading up to the Getty. I'd be going down to like Long Beach. I'd be going to places that I don't get to, but like when like people are in town, like maybe like the Norton Simon. Um you know, places that I don't get like be a tourist in your own town.

[00:33:16]>> Yeah. Yeah, I could see that.

[00:33:20]>> Yeah. Um but I think that um it's hard. It's hard.

[00:33:27]But the part of being in a rut is it's it's hard to get the motivation to do anything.

[00:33:32]>> Yeah.

[00:33:34]>> So, >> for sure.

[00:33:36]>> Yeah. For sure.

[00:33:38]>> Yeah.

[00:33:38]>> Did you read my substack today? Is really [ __ ] >> Um I don't pay for your substack. Oh, >> trying to I I'm also trying to go and figure out how it's possible for me to actually change my sum stack to a different email for the things that I have applied that I have paid for. So, it's like one substack or then two different substacks with the same person.

[00:34:07]>> So, I need to like look at that now. Um, yeah.

[00:34:11]>> Yeah, >> that is uh No, I'll give you a um I'll give you a comp.

[00:34:21]>> Well, thanks. I do see the things that you write and it's like the the previews and >> you see it's always this like when I see it, this is the face that I make.

[00:34:38]Uh oh. Alexis is on a roll.

[00:34:42]Here she comes, you know. But I can't help it. All right. Where's Erica?

[00:34:51]>> I'm here.

[00:34:54]>> But the um there's a little copy comp. I I mostly keep it paid for because I don't need people um like strangers.

[00:35:07]Oh, I see. Okay.

[00:35:08]>> Reading this like I don't want it I don't want it public out there that I'm talking about bad about Maryanne Goodman.

[00:35:16]>> You know, like I don't care if like the seven people that subscribe and like a handful of my friends who have comped can hear or like I'll talk about it here to like the two people who are like watching. Um, but I'm not like trying to have it like Alex is like officially on the record saying I'm not surprised that Marian Goodman closed in LA because they haven't emailed me since 2023. But I'll say it myself.

[00:35:46]But we also talked about that last time like the changing art scene and what it looks like to actually keep >> well there's so much you know it's interesting and I feel like this is going to be like really big for I was actually talking my soy friend did read my substack this morning and what is what she her takeaway is that it was [ __ ] and my takeaway from that was that that's true but then also like the art world is filled with like MFAs and it needs more like people who worked at like Nordstrom for commission. It needs more like waitresses and like waiters who like know how to talk to people and like to like get a sale. And it needs more business people to deal with like business development. Like there is there's been a shift in how people are able to get collectors and the people who are not able to shift or understand that like you're a store and you need to get you're responsible for people to come in and like you're responsible for developing clientele and not the other way around. Um because now it's there's just such a fundamental shift in like what people are able to have access to because in you know even just 20 years ago even in like you know those the you know when we first moved here you couldn't buy art easily from a gallery in New York because you wouldn't be able to get the preview. you know, they'd have to mail you something, >> right?

[00:37:17]>> Because the emails >> I think people still actually really believe in that, you know, that like I think a lot of people still think it's very difficult to to get on mailing list or any of this information.

[00:37:29]>> Yeah. No, I mean I think they do, but like it's but the people like it's not hard for a collector now to be a collector at a gallery in LA, a gallery in New York, a gallery in Mexico City, a gallery in Tokyo, you know, like it's it's not hard. Like if you're not going to sell it to me, I'll just go to the different gallery.

[00:37:48]Like before, if you wanted a Richard Sarah, you were buying it from, you know, well maybe that's not him because I think he's only represented by Gosian, but like if you wanted like pay white and you were in LA, >> Yeah. you'd only be able to go through 1301.

[00:38:02]>> But now, if they didn't get back to you, which they would because their director is fabulous and I love them, they're a friend. But if they weren't going to get back to you, >> then you'd have to you could easily talk to any one of her other galleries and they'll sell you a pay white.

[00:38:18]>> And galleries don't understand that because they're like, "Oh, I'm just going to I'm going to still hold the line." But what they don't understand is that another gallery is not going to hold that same line and they're going to give you access. M >> and so then they're not developing >> the same. Yeah. Yeah. No, I hear you. I hear you. And I think it's like the upkeep is really difficult because things have changed so drastically and people aren't thinking about that.

[00:38:43]>> They aren't. They aren't. And they're doing the same kind of stuff and they're, you know, approaching everything the same way. And then here it is back. They're all in a [ __ ] rut. They're doing the same thing, expecting different, you know, they're like, "Well, I showed up here, but I was talking to a friend who had a had a gallery and she had a good booth and it did well." And I guess the gallery the booth next to it did not do well.

[00:39:05]>> And they actually got to the point where they were asking people to get out of their booth because they were taking pictures of her work in the next booth.

[00:39:12]>> And I was like, "Well, see here's this is where the gallery is." is instead of saying, "Get out of my gallery," you're not like, "Oh my god, yes, that's great.

[00:39:19]Can I also show you this while you're here? You engage with the people who are in your booth. It doesn't matter what they're doing. They could be tying their shoes. Talk to them.

[00:39:27]>> But you're so firm on being like, "No, this is my space and my thing. And if you're not here for me, get out of here." And then you don't sell anything and you're surprised. You're literally kicking people out of your booth. I don't care what they're doing. Yeah.

[00:39:41]They want a good angle of the next booth. Whatever. Offer to take a picture for them. Start up a a conversation.

[00:39:48]This is an art buyer. An art buyer in your booth.

[00:39:51]>> Yeah. I don't think people think that way.

[00:39:54]>> I know. That's what I'm saying. This is why we need waiters and [ __ ] Nordstrom employees in galleries because these people don't think like that. They don't know how to get a [ __ ] collectors are literally in their booth and they are kicking them out.

[00:40:08]>> Yeah. I don't think people think that whatsoever.

[00:40:11]>> That's what I'm saying. It's a [ __ ] problem.

[00:40:17]>> And on that note, >> and that's a gallery problem. And then they're going to complain and say it's an us problem. And it's not an us problem.

[00:40:22]>> Well, we're there.

[00:40:24]>> Well, that's why we are the way that we are right now in the system.

[00:40:28]>> Yeah.

[00:40:29]>> Yeah. So, >> but that's not our But then they complain that it's the buyers and it's like, no, the buyers were there. You're literally kicking them out. You're literally kicking them out of your booth because they're not doing exactly what you want to. According to what? Something that you made up in your head of how you thought that this booth would go. How do you know that they're not going to hit your booth next? How do you not know that this is like part of their loop? You just kick them out. What the [ __ ] >> That's what I mean. These galleries are in a [ __ ] rut and they're not like they're not engaging with like what's actually even happening to them. That's the other crazy thing is that these things are actually happening to them actively and they still don't change.

[00:41:09]Um, and they still blame everybody else.

[00:41:11]Like nobody will look in the mirror and then they read the news and they're like, "Well, see, look, nobody's buying anywhere." And it's like, "No, people are buying all over the place." And you know where they're buying at the galleries who aren't complaining.

[00:41:22]>> There's plenty of galleries that are expanding right now. I can name 10 for every >> and you're not looking at that because you're in this place of fear that you're, you know, it's just it's [ __ ] crazy. It makes me so mad.

[00:41:34]>> It makes me so mad. That's why I wrote another thing about it and I'll probably write another one. Okay.

[00:41:40]>> Probably running up.

[00:41:42]>> Okay.

[00:41:43]All right.

[00:41:45]>> No. All good. All right. I'm gonna go.

[00:41:49]>> Okay.

[00:41:52]This is great.

[00:41:54]>> Always. Till next time. Bye.

[00:41:57]>> Bye.