‘It Looks Like Trickery!’ | Burnham’s Spending Promises Torn Apart

[00:00:00]So, let's discuss this further. And speak to Kevin Schofield, political editor at the Huffington Post. Um Kevin, uh good to see you. I I don't want to sound like I'm being ungrateful. And I think if it wasn't trumpeted, and it came just as a just as an aside, we would all be going, "Oh, that's nice."

[00:00:23]>> Yeah, you're right. I mean, it it's um it's a little bit underwhelming.

[00:00:27]>> Mhm.

[00:00:27]>> Um on for lots of reasons. I mean, you've just gone through them there. I mean, the main one being it's only for 7 months.

[00:00:36]>> Yeah, 6, 7 months. It's something like that, yeah.

[00:00:38]>> Yeah, so it's not um as if it's uh taking us up to the next general election, for instance. And also, there's this question about whether or not they have the money for it. Now, you're right, Darren Jones uh quite significantly, I think, this morning came out and said, "Well, this is unfunded." Um now, bear in mind, obviously, he has got an axe to grind, cuz he was sacked yesterday by Andy Burnham. But also, then the government, then they came out and said, "Well, actually, no, it is funded, but we we had uh a briefing with the Prime Minister's spokesman this afternoon, at which he was asked repeatedly to explain how it it was funded." And I have to say it was pretty unconvincing. He was he was talking about it's um uh departments will have to find savings um in order to to pay for it, which yeah, it it's not exactly nailed down.

[00:01:30]Let's Let's just say that.

[00:01:31]>> Yeah, I mean, that's not a you know, if if if if I think, "Right, I've got to cut my budget by 20 quid." I I don't then go out before I've cut my budget by 20 quid and spend 40 quid, right? I mean, that's that's not that's not how normal people work. But the interesting thing is that if he's he couldn't have said it was properly funded, really, because he hasn't he's only just got his new chancellor. They're only just opened the books. So, it would be I just wonder again whether he's jumped the gun like Kier Starmer tried to do with the winter fuel allowance with with old age pensioners.

[00:02:05]A policy that takes longer to put together is better than just throwing one out there and and and hoping it's going to stick. It seems unprepared.

[00:02:14]>> Yeah, yeah, he's making himself a bit of a bit of a hostage to fortune and they obviously feel that they need to hit the ground running. They need to provide a sense of optimism and hope.

[00:02:25]He's spoken about about hope. Now, they want to contrast that with Kier Starmer's first impression as as Prime Minister if you if you remember.

[00:02:35]>> Yeah, it was all doom and gloom, wasn't it?

[00:02:37]>> It was all very dim and gloomy. I remember him giving a press conference just after the election in 2024 in the Downing Street garden.

[00:02:44]Where he talked about basically things are a lot worse than we thought and it's going to be tough and we're just going to have to tighten our belt and it's going to get worse before it gets better and the wrong tone and people were looking for a bit of sunny optimism. People had voted for change and then they were smacked in the face with misery and depression. So, Andy Burnham has obviously learned that lesson and said, "Right, I've got to, you know, prove to people that we we get it. We understand the cost of living is still is still biting. So, we need to come up with policies. Now, there are going to be other policies. I think tomorrow we're going to see a cap on bus fares across the country. I think later in the week we'll probably see cuts to business rates for the hospitality sector. So, this is as I said to give a sense of momentum of the government, but at the same time he is raising the bar very high, getting people's hopes up that they're going to feel a lot better off and if it turns out that bills us electricity bills are still going to go up in October just not by as much as they otherwise it have been, people won't even notice that and I think they'll be they'll be they'll be pretty frustrated.

[00:03:55]>> Yeah, and the other thing is that there's another price rise during January, so that could also be swallowed. I mean, that £3, Kevin, might might might disappear. And and also, I can't help but think that if this isn't funded long-term, because his idea of the funding was, of course, the the the money that was due to be spent on the digital ID scheme. So, he saw 1.8 billion there, and he probably thinks that's his budget to spend in these three days. So, let's find out if the bus fares how the bus fares are funded.

[00:04:24]Are they funded from that same pot of you know, non-existent money?

[00:04:30]Um but, so it he's he's made a rod for his own back as well, because you can't he's going to have to put that back on unless they can fund it properly in the budget, right? As an ongoing And you then that's worse. To to give somebody some relief and then go that but then in 7 months we're just going to bung that straight back on your bills.

[00:04:51]>> Yeah, exactly. That is the that is the problem. You know, it's an 850 even if you assume that they're going to find that money that's 850 million pounds that they're spending.

[00:04:59]>> Which nobody will really feel.

[00:05:01]>> Which no one will really feel.

[00:05:03]Um and then you're going to present it with you're going to be back to square one again come next April. He's going to have to find that money all over again and the following year. Um so, it's um it looks like a little bit of of trickery almost, you know, that they're trying to be a little bit too cute uh because they're so desperate to um to garner some positive headlines. Um which, you know, might give them a bit of a sugar rush initially.

[00:05:30]>> Yeah.

[00:05:31]>> I don't think it'll take long for reality to kick in, and we're already seeing um disquiet uh because when you make such huge changes to the cabinet, which he had to do, which he was perfectly entitled to do, um you make a lot of enemies, and there'll be a lot of people who won't and unhappy at losing their jobs and there'll be people who think they should have got promoted and weren't. Um, and that is going to be pre-resentment and that's going to be something he's going to have to try and keep a lid on and try to contain um, while trying to hold the party together and it's going to be very difficult indeed.

[00:06:03]>> I mean, Darren Jones was quickly out the gate though, wasn't he? I mean, my goodness me. And and that was a really pointed message that he put out there.

[00:06:12]That was that was, you know, one or two fingers. I can't quite figure out which of those symbols it was, but it was definitely one of them.

[00:06:21]>> Well, yeah, yeah, it was it was really dramatic cuz it was early this morning.

[00:06:26]So, the choreography was that um, this announcement about uh, VAT of electricity bills, that was made bang on 6:00 this morning and then I think it was around about 8:00.

[00:06:37]>> Around about 8:00, yeah.

[00:06:38]>> Yeah, uh, Darren Jones takes to X and makes this post pretty incendiary really saying that what this is unfunded so they're going to have to find the money from from somewhere else and it was like, well, there's a cat amongst the pigeons straight away and it it was a it was a sort of shot across the bows really for um, Andy Burnham. Now, what one senior Labour figure said to me on this up up someone who's not a fan of Andy Burnham, I have to say, said, "Look, an unfunded tax cut is just a red line for a lot of Labour MPs."

[00:07:09]>> Yeah. It was a day that this announcement and it just shows that for all the talk of party unity and you know, hundreds of Labour MPs nominating Andy Burnham, there is still an awful lot of resentment there which was only made worse by the reshuffle that he carried out yesterday.

[00:07:25]>> Well, I was just going to say, there's Labour now one team even though there are at least 11 disgruntled former uh, ministers and he orchestrated a coup against the last leader. So, I mean, it it it to say it's all lovely and fluffy I I don't think any of us particularly buy that. And and the latest thing as well is Anas Sarwar, the SMP, now saying that I mean this is again it's just I was saying this just a moment ago to Peter. This is just the politics as usual. You know, we're so tired of being told this is going to we're going to be a different type of politics. And in order to get Sarwar into his into Westminster, he's having to get a peerage. I mean This is gifts for the boys, isn't it?

[00:08:11]Again.

[00:08:13]>> Well, it is and it's also rewards for failure because you know, he led Labour to their worst performance.

[00:08:20]>> Absolutely.

[00:08:20]>> And the Holyrood election they got absolutely conked again by the SNP. And and the the punishment in inverted commas that Anas Sarwar, the Scottish Labour leader is, he gets a job for life in the House of Lords.

[00:08:36]And a job in the UK government. I mean it is absolutely astonishing. And uh but bear in mind of course Anas Sarwar was one of the first, if not the first, uh senior Labour figure to call on Keir Starmer to resign back in February.

[00:08:54]>> was a lone voice then, wasn't it?

[00:08:55]Because everybody else sort of just backed off. So he's just being rewarded.

[00:09:00]I and and it it's I mean so much for you know, going to be different, uh no factionalism, uh you know, it's going to be meritocracy, people with the right credentials get the right jobs. I it it's all the same. Again.

[00:09:15]>> Well, it is and and if you're a Scottish Labour MP right now who is on the back benches and is not going to become a minister, you think yourself, well, how on earth have I been passed over for a guy who didn't even stand for election in 2024?

[00:09:31]>> And now you said he's got a job for life now, £350 a day.

[00:09:35]>> Exactly. And he's he is now going to sort of leapfrog those of us who who ran a campaign, were elected in 2024, we're sitting on the backbenches, and here's a guy who um isn't even an MP, is going to um as I say jump the queue and become a a minister because, you know, he's mates with Andy Burnham. So, again, that's that resentment thing, you know, that's a lot more Labour MPs who think they should be cuz I've been I've been kicked to the curb to let a a guy come in from outside, then that's not going to go down well either. But as you see, it's feels like politics as usual when we were promised change.

[00:10:14]>> Yeah. Well, and and and and not to mention um uh Louise Haigh uh who who had to leave over a fraud charge, a previous fraud charge, and Angela Rayner back in her old in her old job as well, having to to resign over um uh underpayment of stamp duty as housing minister. I mean, that that has all been sorted now, but still I I just don't I literally don't have the words.

[00:10:44]>> Well, it's like it's like a revolving door, isn't it? It seems that if you're as long as you're a mate of Andy, then it doesn't matter what you've done in the past. You know, all your all your sins are absolved, and you're allowed to you're allowed to come back and wipe the slate clean.

[00:11:01]>> As long as you stick by Andy. I mean, again, it's just the old boys' network, but with girls in it instead. Is she going to have to pay back the 17 grand that she got when she quit?

[00:11:13]Um or is there or is a time limit on that?

[00:11:16]>> Uh I think no, there's a there's a there's a time limit on that.

[00:11:19]>> 3 months, isn't it? So, she'll get to keep that.

[00:11:21]>> That was yeah, that was September that that that she that she went so you pushed on for a year, so now she won't have to she won't have to give that back. Um but it'll be It'll be to see how how voters perceive it, you know, whether that this idea that it doesn't matter what you've done in the past. You know, you may have been forced to resign, but as long as you're you're friends with the leader or with the new leader, then you'll get your your old job back effectively. And Angela Rayner is incredibly >> Incredibly powerful.

[00:11:50]>> Effectively the the deputy prime minister. I don't know it doesn't look as though someone's is going to be formally given the title of deputy prime minister. She is the first secretary of state, which is basically the most senior figure in government other than the prime minister. So, she will she's now the second most powerful politician and certainly the most powerful woman in the country.

[00:12:10]Um and it will it will be interesting to see how she manages that.

[00:12:14]>> I I Yeah, I mean I I so far I look at I we all want Andy Burnham to do well not not on party political terms, but in terms of the of getting the country out of the hole that it's in. But I I'm already incredibly disappointed. Um and I didn't want to be disappointed. What do you think the country will will make of this so far? I mean we're a day and a half in, but still there's been some significant moves that indicate where he's going and what he's going to do with the country.

[00:12:50]>> Yeah, I mean I think I think you're right. I mean I think the problem is when you set the bar so high, when you come in and you're talking about you're going to change politics, you're going to overturn the last four years of of factory economics as as as he would say, when you say that you're going to be, you know, a unifying figure that you're going to provide hope and optimism, you're going to heal the wounds of of the nation, bring the country together, you're going to work across party, you're going to collaborate with other parties. Now, it's fairly early days on that front. He may well, you know, he's not even stood up in parliament at at box yet because you know Parliament is in recess now until September. So we we are we wait to see on on how that um how that collaboration that he talks about with other parties will actually pan out. But the difficulty is you know as I say you set the bar so high and if he falls short of it then then voters are are going to be very angry indeed.

[00:13:47]>> And and what I think again I was saying this yesterday that to say you're going to end rough sleeping that is a measurable stick that he's just given us to beat him with.

[00:14:00]Because we you know London right? You know London as well as I do.

[00:14:05]If we don't you can see it. It it's visible. It's you know distressing in its visibility.

[00:14:12]So if he doesn't end it like he didn't end it in Manchester the numbers are coming down but it's not but that that's a that's a big visible thing that he said he is going to do. And again I would have thought that was quite foolish on day one.

[00:14:30]>> Yeah I mean listen it is a noble aim and I think no one would see that it is it is the wrong thing to be doing. You know to end rough sleeping.

[00:14:40]>> it is yeah.

[00:14:40]>> No one no one wants to see people sleeping rough on the streets of Great Britain.

[00:14:45]But again it's how you going to do it?

[00:14:48]We don't [clears throat] know the detail about what the plan is. How you going to pay for it?

[00:14:52]And not only that not only how you going to pay for that he's talked about you know fixing social care. There's talk of that being like an 18 billion pounds price tag.

[00:15:02]>> That's a death tax isn't it they're talking about?

[00:15:05]>> Well exactly. So he's talking about raising potentially he's mentioned in raising the income tax threshold so that's the amount of money that you can earn before you start paying income tax which again I think most people would agree that is something that should be done. But it costs an awful lot of money. And again we don't know where the money for that is going to come from.

[00:15:24]He's talked about building half a million new council houses. Where's the money for that going to come from? So, all of these things um all sound fine in principle, but we've yet to see the detail and how he plans to pay for it. And we know it's not as if the government is awash with money, right?

[00:15:44]>> No, he's got the same problems that that that that Kier had. But we won't hear >> higher taxes, cuts elsewhere.

[00:15:52]>> We're we're not going to hear anything though till September as well. I mean, that's the thing. And that's a long time for the country to wait to see, you know, just to put up with bluster and and you know, we're all going to get a unicorn. We want to know how it's all going to happen. And and we won't hear that for five five and a half six weeks.

[00:16:11]>> Yeah, exactly. So, it's an incredibly strange situation where you have a new Prime Minister come in and he doesn't have to face scrutiny from uh MPs for six weeks. I mean, that's all press. So, he's he's tried to avoid it. But I mean, to be fair to him, so yesterday um he agreed uh to have a what's known as a huddle, which is like a mini little press conference off camera but on on the record in the Downing Street garden uh just after he gave his speech um on the steps of Downing Street. I was there along with other other journalists. Um unfortunately though, we only got 6 minutes with him. It was supposed to be longer, but he was pulled away to for an important international call. So, that was a good idea, but again, we need more of that. We need to be able to scrutinize him more because he's not run a Labour leadership campaign. He's not stood in a general election. He won a by-election, and that's it. So, um that we need to properly scrutinize him and not be find out exactly what his plan is.

[00:17:12]>> Well, I I wonder if he knows yet.

[00:17:14]>> [laughter] >> So, let's hope so. Uh Kevin, thank you very much indeed. Kevin Schofield, political editor at the Huffington Post UK. Quick