When Jan Owens thought the recording stopped. (Owens family $132 000 GoFundMe Scam)

[00:00:00]Okay, I'm off the record, and thank you very much. And I'll wait to hear from you so that we can schedule your exam.

[00:00:06]>> Okay, just but just that the one thing I mean should we plan on an hour or 2 hours like >> Oh, I would set aside 8 hours cuz that's what I'm allowed to do.

[00:00:15]>> [laughter] >> 8 HOURS? OH, JAN, you thought this What?

[00:00:23]What's a ass whooping?

[00:00:25]Now imagine 8 hours. Now, it will be faster if you're truthful, but we all know that Jan Owens is mentally unable to be truthful.

[00:00:40]>> 8 hours?

[00:00:41]>> Well, that's like I said, Ms. Naylor, it's all going to be dependent upon how you answer questions, right? If you take up a lot of time, you know, pontificating and going off on tangents, then it's going to be long. If you want it when I ask you a yes or no question and you answer it sincerely, and just answer the questions as I ask them, then it'll go quicker. But I am entitled to examine you for up to 8 hours.

[00:01:02]>> Okay.

[00:01:03]>> Okay.

[00:01:03]>> Okay, I think my my phone may be about to die here.

[00:01:07]>> All right, well, we've we're off the record and we're concluding this matter.

[00:01:09]So, I'll wait to hear from you for dates that you're available.

[00:01:12]>> I understand one other thing, please.

[00:01:15]You know, some of the answers that I was also trying to give were to um you know, appease the crowd on the line so that they would would not be bringing >> Oh, for [ __ ] sake. Now, she's blaming us again.

[00:01:29]She's claiming she lied more or less what she's doing is claiming to uh the trustee attorney that she lied to her so that we wouldn't find out stuff.

[00:01:42]We will.

[00:01:45]You filed for bankruptcy.

[00:01:49]Public records.

[00:01:51]>> I think you do um >> Well, that shouldn't color your testimony should just be truthful and forthright, and you shouldn't be trying to change what you say or how you testify based on how people perceive it.

[00:02:02]So, that's that's not really a good excuse for some of the evasiveness I saw here today. Um I think that uh one thing I do want to point out is that since you still have that GoFundMe up, you have to understand that while you're in this bankruptcy case, all of those funds become part of the bankruptcy estate. So, you cannot like you really have to understand that once you filed this bankruptcy petition, you opened up yourself to the entire, you know, mandate of the bankruptcy code and the procedures that you have to follow, right? You can't just file bankruptcy to stop a foreclosure and then do whatever you want. So, you have this GoFundMe. If you have funds coming in, those all need to be set aside, and you shouldn't be paying any creditors, you shouldn't be paying anything that is not a necessary living expense for just you and your husband. Do you understand?

[00:02:49]>> Yeah.

[00:02:49]>> Great.

[00:02:51]>> Yeah.

[00:02:52]Since the court hasn't allowed you, Jen, to pay for Laura, you can't pay for Laura.

[00:03:00]No gifts, no food, no nothing.

[00:03:05]>> Did you Did you Did you hear what I said, ma'am?

[00:03:09]>> I did. I did.

[00:03:10]>> Okay. So, I want you to be mindful because if the case gets converted to chapter 7, um any funds that came in while this case was in chapter 11 will have to be turned over to the chapter 7 trustee, okay?

[00:03:23]>> Okay, but I'm not okay. I can't get >> I can't understand you. You sound like you're in a tunnel.

[00:03:28]>> Uh yeah.

[00:03:32]>> No, I can't really hear you.

[00:03:33]>> Yeah, there can be a callback.

[00:03:35]>> I'm sorry. All of the All of the funds were gone a year and a half ago.

[00:03:39]>> Well, I'm just talking Yeah. I'm talking about the fact that the fund the GoFundMe page is still up, so you still might be getting and I can see just anybody in the public can see who's donating and when.

[00:03:49]So, you you know, if there's money that still comes in, I don't know if people are still donating. If they are, I'm just telling you that money that's coming in from that source, you need to make sure that you every dollar that you have of income into your account needs to be accounted for cuz you're in bankruptcy now. I just want you to be aware of that. Okay?

[00:04:06]>> Right. Right. Right. So, you're saying it might be smart to disclose the GoFundMe and then not leave it up there?

[00:04:10]>> I think that's for you to decide. I can't tell you what to do, but I don't I'm I'm a little confused as to why you still have it up when you said the you know, you you said that it was to get yourself out of debt so that you didn't have to file bankruptcy, but yet you're in bankruptcy anyway, so seems like I don't It doesn't seem to align with what your stated purpose of the the GoFundMe was, but that's for you to decide.

[00:04:32]>> Right. Right.

[00:04:34]Um Okay, so what just so that I know when we do the um the other uh hearing um what what specific areas are you are you wanting uh to further explore?

[00:04:51]>> Well, clearly we need to sit down with the um and look at the schedules you filed in the Chapter 13, the schedules you filed in the >> Oh, wait a minute.

[00:05:00]Jean thinks that since off the record she thinks this is no longer public.

[00:05:12]That is why she's all of a sudden really, really forthcoming. She's really, really talkative. She's asking questions.

[00:05:21]She thinks we don't hear this.

[00:05:24]>> [laughter] >> originally in this case, and then the schedules that were docketed yesterday.

[00:05:29]And we need to go through them. We're going to go through them line by line, and you're going to see I want you to see the stark difference in the testimony under oath because it's pretty apparent to me that you made false statements under oath.

[00:05:38]Uh I mean, if we let's just assume for the sake of argument that the current amendment filed yesterday is the truth and nothing but the truth. Well, then your prior statements were clearly false. Um so that's number one. I need to go through those and I need to go through the accounting with you because it just doesn't make sense. You know, you were ordered by the court to give me an accounting. It's not even like I asked for the court ordered this on the court's own decision and yet you gave me something that I thought I could rely on and then today you were kind of all over the place not really admitting that what you gave me was a true accounting of how you expended the the uh GoFundMe money.

[00:06:13]So I'm not I I need to delve into that because I'm not sure what purpose that was that you gave me that document if I couldn't rely on it to constitute an accounting of how you spent the GoFundMe money. And clearly I can't because one of the items was the Macy's and you're saying that no, that was not part of how we used the GoFundMe money, but that's what your accounting says.

[00:06:33]>> Right, right. But and again, like I said, I was just trying to to be able to say that look, this money had gone out and yeah.

[00:06:39]>> Well, I don't know what you were doing, but um it's it's clear that I this lacks any reliability because you're not you're not standing by what it is titled. You're calling it an accounting of GoFundMe funds, but now you're saying that's not what it is. So I I don't you know, that's a little bit frustrating.

[00:06:53]So I guess what I would ask um and I will inform the court if this isn't done, I would ask that you fix this and give me a proper accounting of exactly how the $132,528.36 of GoFundMe funds was expended.

[00:07:09]>> Okay.

[00:07:11]Okay.

[00:07:12]Okay, but again, just for my own information, I don't I mean please understand I'm not trying to be contrary or anything like that. But since this was was spent long before we filed the Chapter 13 and long before we filed the um >> [laughter] >> long before we filed the the Chapter 11, I don't understand why the GoFundMe, you know, is is pertinent at at this point.

[00:07:44]>> Okay, I understand that you don't understand. Um I don't know what to tell you about that. Um you know, it is uh I I just don't know what to tell you about that. I mean, it's relevant. You know, I one of the things that actually concerns me is that you misappropriated GoFundMe funds and misled donors and you know, that opens you yourself up to potential claims. So, we have to know whether or not the creditor class uh whether you've properly identified all potential creditors. Um >> [laughter] >> Cuz my under- >> In what In in what sense? I mean, I I I guess, please, you know, understand I'm really not trying to be confrontational here. I I just I really don't >> Well, I understand you don't understand, but I I I think and maybe [clears throat] for a minute just think about this. If you look at the posting on the GoFundMe, there's a suggestion that there are funds needed for medical expenses and and and because you're having financial troubles and I think that it would be fair to assume most reasonable people would assume that the funds would then be used for paying bills that are necessary for your day-to-day living, paying for food, utilities, phone, groceries, medical uh things. I don't think it's reasonable to assume that donors would know or expect that GoFundMe money is being used to pay Macy's credit card bills. I don't think so. And I don't think it's reasonable for people who give money through GoFundMe to think that their money is being used to fund life insurance or ADT home security systems. I think that that >> or paying Laura's defense attorney.

[00:09:13]>> That is something I need to explore because, like I said, you there's a potential claim out there and I you know, we need to see it the extent to which your your schedules are accurate in terms of disclosing all potential claimants against you and Mr. Owens.

[00:09:30]That's just one >> But again, uh with regard to like I say, the the ADT, that we have had we have had death threats against us.

[00:09:39]>> Well, that doesn't sound like that comes from the medical issues. It sounds like that might relate to what you call your your smear campaign.

[00:09:46]And that's fine. You might feel like that's necessary, but my point, Ms. Naylor, is that I don't think it's reasonable for to put out a call on GoFundMe that talks about your your husband's medical elements and then use that for home security system. That doesn't seem to be the kind of necessity. I mean, you said yourself in the accounting you gave me, you said itemized list of necessities. That's what you referred to it as. And I don't I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that Macy's is a necessity, that life insurance is a necessity, that ADT home is a necessity. I mean, that just it goes beyond what I think is reasonable.

[00:10:23]>> Well, um the the ADT thing also with regard to the medical alert, there is there Let me just >> Medical alert is 50 bucks a month.

[00:10:32]For a medical alert button. 50 bucks.

[00:10:36]>> Please don't stand up.

[00:10:38]Please huh?

[00:10:38]>> Okay, I understand that you're trying to explain it, but it doesn't make sense to me. So, you know, you're not addressing the Macy's or the life insurance. So, I I The bottom line is that you're the judge wanted you to give me an accounting of the GoFundMe funds. She ordered it. So, I feel that based on the court's order for that document, it is my obligation as a trial attorney for the US Trustee to fully examine the accounting, and that's what I was trying to do, but I was uh stopped because I was not able to fully examine it with you, because you're basically denying what it is that you provided to me was an actual itemization of how you used the GoFundMe money.

[00:11:14]So, we're going to have to get to the bottom of that in a setting where I can put in front of you your own documents, and then you can't you can say, "Well, you're saying that. I don't see it."

[00:11:22]Well, we won't have that problem if you're in here and I'm I'm putting papers in front of you. Um so, I mean, that's the best I can offer you in terms of an explanation as to why the GoFundMe is relevant. I mean, clearly the judge thought it was relevant. So, if I were you, I would not question it anymore because the judge thought it was irrelevant enough to order that you provide me an accounting.

[00:11:41]Okay?

[00:11:44]Okay, Ms. Nailer?

[00:11:48]I'm not hearing anything in response.

[00:11:52]Okay. I'm assuming that >> I think her phone died.

[00:11:56]>> Oh, okay. All right, well, that's it.

[00:11:58]Then, I'm going to hang up. Thank you all for joining us.

[00:12:08]>> Okay. I think this is it.

[00:12:14]Unless there's a hot mic in the end.

[00:12:21]Ms. Jaimal, maybe you should hang up, too.