The analysis astutely navigates the tension between intellectual modernization and emotional fidelity, yet it ultimately exposes how contemporary adaptations often trade the raw power of the epic for sterile, thematic deconstruction. While the hosts offer a sharp cultural critique, they highlight a troubling trend where stylistic subversion is mistaken for genuine narrative depth.
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Does The Odyssey Film and Avengers Doomsday Trailer live up to the hype? | The Breakroom
Added:I mean, this is, I think, essentially ancient Greeks nuke that it irrevocably changed the culture moving forward. News spread out that like this has happened and now people don't care about the law of Zeus anymore and it's just spreading out like wildfire. It It is the trailer Eric saw ages ago, but also I remember his description of it then, but I haven't been like following it. And so, I kind of felt like I got to watch it for the first time with everybody else AND WAS LIKE, "YEAH, YOU KNOW, like [music] Hello everybody and welcome back to the breakroom. I'm Alex Berg. This is Brian Kim. Today we're going to talk about the Odyssey. We're going to talk about the Avengers Doomsday trailer and we're going to talk about X-Men 97. Let's get into it. Um, Brian, you were telling me before we started taping that you were playing a classic game for the Wii U, >> and it made me it made me turn into dust because by the time the Wii U came out, I already had a kid.
>> Sure. Sure. [laughter] Yeah.
>> What's this old game playing on the Wii U?
>> It's funny cuz it's not even just old.
Nobody played the Wii U. The Wii U was like categorically it didn't sell well.
>> I would say it's one of their best systems. Uh, well, I think it is hard to argue with Mario Kart 8 and Breath of the Wild. Like, those were both Wii U originals.
>> But it sucked. [laughter] No, the Wii U is so good. The Wii U has banger after banger after banger. Just nobody played them because who bought the Wii U. Um, I only I did cuz I'm a Nintendo super fan.
Uh, actually, I'm not even a super fan.
I'm a regular fan, but I love Nintendo.
Anyway, Nintendo Land was the Wii U's uh Wii Sport where it was the game included in the uh the console.
>> It was the packin title.
>> It was the pack-in title to like show off all the stuff that the Wii U could do. And one of the gimmicks that the Wii U has, which I really like, is that you can play with four players on the controller and one player on the Gamepad.
>> Yeah.
>> So, they had these games that are uh asymmetric competitive games where it was four players versus a person on the gamepad. And so they had a bunch of fun like party games that utilize that uh as a as a thing. Like there's like a Luigi Mansion uh mini game where you on the game pad is the ghost and everyone else are the hunters and so they have to look for you with their flashlights, but you get to try to kill them before they can.
Uh a bunch of stuff like that. I played it cuz it was uh my birthday last weekend, but I couldn't hang out with a couple of friends and I was like I want to play the Wii like Nintendo Land for the Wii U and they're like we got you.
So uh that's what I did over the weekend.
>> Oh yeah. Yeah. I never I played all of Breath of the Wild on the Wii U, which is that's kind of crazy.
>> It is crazy. Well, because I didn't have a Wii U and a a friend of mine was like, "Dude, you got to play Breath of the Wild." And I was like, "I can't."
[laughter] You know, and so she lent me her Wii U.
And I I mean, it was just it reminds me of I I read I I'm a [clears throat] The Wii U reminds me of these big hardcover photo books I'm a sucker for where they're too big to read in bed. only the Wii U was too big to play on the couch.
Like it felt the Wii U made you feel like you needed a special like pedestal for it.
>> Yeah, >> it was just a chungus of a [ __ ] controller. It was like a brick. No one has hands big enough for that. Galactus could not play the Wii U, [laughter] >> you know. Uh but that's why that's why I think it sucks. But it did have great games.
>> Yeah, >> did have great games. Um and you also went to a Dungeon Mey art exhibit.
>> Yeah.
>> Am I pronouncing it right? Dungey.
Dungeon Meshi I think. Uh so yeah it's Dungeon Meshi or Delicious in Dungeon if you are watching it uh dubbed. Um it is a an anime/manga that is like it's like a fantasy style world but uh the whole gimmick is they have to go into a dungeon to like rescue one of their party members but they're poor so they don't have resources so they have to hunt and kill the monsters in the dungeon. Uh, and the the artist is really good at making like monster food, which is it's just beautiful to look at and really fun. Uh, I think one of the best mangas of all time. Uh, really good. I recommend everybody if you can get it or read it, read it. Um, but the artist had a pop-up art exhibit in Little Tokyo in LA. Uh, and I was like, I got to I got to go see that cuz my fianceé also that's what are top like five mangas of all time. And so we wanted to see the arts and it was a great time. Um, I don't know. Little Tokyo Rules.
>> Little Tokyo is great.
>> Yeah, Little Tokyo Rules. Yeah.
>> Um, so if anybody is in the LA area and can get a ticket there, I highly recommend it. It was a pretty cheap ticket. It was only like $12, $18 or something like that. Um, and it's just really fun to see like official art from this person and seeing like the history of uh like her as an artist.
>> That's right. Did it show like her like influences or like the stuff that like she drew inspiration from for for the show or >> It mostly showed like her career uh like she had like the first manga she ever made uh art from that and like there was like letters or like little snippets from like her editor and like how she found her and I was like, "Oh, this is an artist that like I wanted to work with like since the beginning." And like once I got into the industry, I like made sure to bring her up and like uh give her space to make a manga. And it's like I I think just learning that history and seeing a lot of her previous art like there was also like cover art and she had her like drafts and like what how she changed it. Uh the work in progress and all that stuff. Uh so it was mostly about that like her her art >> like the process of making this manga and this show. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Oh, that's super fun. I um this is not related but I uh my my girlfriend is my wife >> your wife >> let's get back to girlfriend [laughter] uh you know they tell you they tell you divorce is tough you can't uh but um she's super into the shining and for Christmas my parents got her this like tashion like hardbound like shining book it's in two parts one part's like a book all about the making of it and the second part is just all this scrapbook of all these behind the scenes photos >> and it what you're describing sounds like the installation version of that which is fantastic.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> I also went to a special event of sorts this weekend. Um there's a >> there's a Rick and Morty spin-off show called President Curtis that comes out I believe next week. I think it airs right after the Rick and Morty finale. Um and I got to go to the premiere on Friday night because my wife is is a writer on the show. And as someone who thinks Rick and Morty is overly cynical and hates its fans, I am pleased to report that President Curtis is like not that vibe.
>> I was very pleasantly surprised by how much I genuinely liked the show. Um >> it's it's weirdly optimistic, which is not something I thought I'd ever say about any Harmon property. Um yeah, and it's really funny. And Keith also Keith David was there. I was sitting like a row behind him, like two rows behind him during the premiere. And just like >> even the way that the back of that man's head moves is legendary, [laughter] you know.
>> He said like a nice couple of things about like how honored he was to get to work with everybody and like to have everybody worked on the show in the same room. He had come to the premiere with his family. Like just class act all the way. Um but yeah, we we watched the first two episodes and they were great.
like >> it looks good. I mean, I I'm a Rick and Morty fan and I'm like >> I think a lot of people are. I think I'm in the minority. Yeah. And I think also I have issues with Harmon because I have friends who worked on Community.
>> That's fair.
>> You know, so it's like I you know, but um but yeah, but anyways. Yes. You like Rick and Morty?
>> I I love Rick and Morty and I'm excited because I think some it's so funny on like Reddit online sometimes people are like why did uh President Curtis get a spin-off and like the top comments always like I just want Keith David to have more work, man. He's great.
>> Yes. It's like first of all Yeah. Yeah.
>> But secondly, I mean, I think >> you know what is it the thing that people always compare it to is also Inside Job on Netflix. And I think just the government doing sci-fi fun stuff with also like crypted like that kind of stuff. I think it's always hits. Uh it's going to be I >> I don't know what I'm allowed to say and not say about what I saw. Um I didn't sign anything, but I just also don't want to be like the dick spouse who came to this event and ruined it for everyone who worked on it. Um the the second episode feels like it was tailor made to have people go through frame by frame and be like, "Oh, and that's this thing and that's this thing and that's this thing." Like it's >> so if if that's what you're looking for, you will get plenty plenty of it from President Curtis and the voice cast is great. It's it's really fun. Yeah.
Honestly, >> perfect for the new Rockstar channel.
>> I honestly thought about pitching it. We are [snorts] so busy, [laughter] >> you know what I mean? Like when when the episodes come out is just kind of at the perfect wrong time of year for us to decide to start covering something new.
>> Yeah, that's fair.
>> Um, but I I do think the the second episode is the kind of thing that like people will start popping up in the comments be like, "Dude, I need you guys TO BREAK IT DOWN." You know, and it's like, "Yeah, I get it." Um, so yeah, but anyways, I think I think if you want a less cynical Rick and Morty that is just fun sci-fi adventures with Keith David, President Curtis has you covered. Oh, yeah. Um, and the final thing that both of us did over the weekend >> when saw early screenings of the Odyssey or early in the day.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> So, you saw the Odyssey at 7 a.m.?
>> I saw the Odyssey at I was like, am I going to see this weekend? And then I was talking to my fiance. I was like, I think we should watch the Odyssey. And so we were trying to find a seat that was like decent enough and not like super [laughter] filled.
>> Uh, right. Were you not like watching like this?
>> Um, so the only time slots that we found was one for 2:00 a.m. which means I would have been up till 5:00 a.m. which like I can't do that. Uh, or 7 a.m. And so that we had to be up at like 6:00 a.m. to get ready and stuff. I'm like I haven't woken up at 6:00 in so long. Uh, but I went to the the ch the Chinese theater in Hollywood. I still had a I mean, we still had a pretty close seats.
I'm shocked they were doing screenings at 7 a.m.
>> I think after all the like IMAX stuff sold out, they just opened a lot more slots.
>> Oh, I see.
>> Of these weird times so that other people can get in, which it worked. It was a full It was a full theater. Yeah.
>> Um but I I still had like my seat. We were like the third row, so it still was a little bit up, but the screen was like big enough and far enough that like it still worked out.
>> Yeah. Um, and uh, it another fun fact is that my fiance the the night before watching it really wanted to like remind herself of the Odyssey. So, she got the Emily Wilson translation of the Odyssey and read it the night before. I'm like, bro, she she was it was like midnight and she only got through the intro. I'm like, I'm just going to go through the rest of it.
>> Yeah, it's crazy.
>> It's so funny. I mean, one, kudos to your fiance for being like, I could do this. like [laughter] the Odyssey. To try to speedread the Odyssey the night before a 7 a.m. screening is so wonderfully unhinged, you know? It's it's like, "Oh, yeah. This is this is a book that some people spend their entire academic careers [laughter] parsing. I'm going to do it in six hours >> and she she got through most of it."
>> I had to speed I I had to do that with Grapes of Wrath when I was in high school. I I remember my family was going to see I think The Mummy or maybe The Mummy Returns and I had a report due and our teacher was like big on using cliffnotes to be like I know what's in the cliff notes >> and I know what's not and I'm going to quizzy on the stuff that's not.
>> And so I was like crap I just got to sit down and read this. And I read all of Grapes of Wrath in a single sitting.
>> Wow.
>> I have never hated a book so much. I don't think it's the book's fault. It sucked.
>> Circumstances. Zero out of 10. one star.
Yeah. [laughter] Yeah.
>> Um, yeah, I saw The Odyssey at 11:00 a.m. and I thought that was early.
>> That's still pretty early for a movie, but Yeah.
>> Yeah. for a 3-hour movie. But, uh, honestly, it's great. The the Burbank AMC at 11:00 a.m.
>> Vastly superior theater to that that same place at like 8:00 p.m.
>> Parking's easier.
>> You get out, you still have a whole day left, you know, like just way way breezier experience all around. Tips to Bips. Do recommend.
>> Tips to Bips. Um, >> now, now here's my hot take on The Odyssey.
>> Okay.
>> Okay. Yeah. Ready? Yeah. I think The Odyssey is an incredibly well-made and well-acted film, and I felt nothing watching it.
>> What? Really?
>> Yeah.
>> Really? Yeah.
>> Interesting.
>> I I left the theater shocked at how little of an emotional response I had to anything.
>> And I can't fault it. I think it was there's a lot of adaptations people are kind of making noise about that they take issue with and and I didn't I don't take issue with any of those. I think it's incredibly wellm made. I think a lot of the choices to update it and modernize it are interesting but I support them fundamentally.
>> Yeah.
>> Um but I just I had no emotional reaction watching it. It felt like I was watching a bunch of diuramas at a museum.
>> Oh, interesting.
>> Yeah. So, I'm curious what you thought cuz I'm I'm very familiar with the source text, but you know, I don't know >> what was your what was your experience watching it?
>> I'm uh so I'm not like >> I you know, of like most people, I know of the Odyssey, but I forgot I forgot most of it honestly. Um but before we started watching my fiance was kind of like catching me up with like what she read and like all the stuff like oh yeah that that happened to happen. I think I do understand what you're saying in that there weren't a lot of like emotionally resonant stuff with like each character.
It was kind of like watching I think diaramas in a museum is almost a very apt description. Yeah. Um, but I still thought all the like moments felt really epic and tense and suspenseful in a way that I had like uh that really gripped me the whole way through.
>> Well, so here's here's maybe like a more specific example of what I'm talking about. One, I'm glad you were moved by it.
>> I think most people are. I think I you know and so part of my thing is like you know a lot of times when I don't really connect with a movie on that level I can kind of point to things in the script that I bumped off of or that took me out of it or whatever. There's maybe minor things I could point to but overall I really think it was really well made. I >> you know um and I think it was really I think Anne Hathaway in particular did a phenomenal job uh with with the role of Penelope. I thought she stole the show actingwise. Um, but uh but like you know the uh the scene with the Cyclops with Polifamus for instance, >> I loved the design of the Cyclops. I thought that was like just so good. This like mushfaced like it it felt monstrous in the truest sense of the term.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I I really did like the fact that the Cyclops the interpretation of the eyes cuz like the face is like warped.
>> Yeah. like the nose is warped. The mouth is and the eye is like a little warped.
I'm like, "Oh, that's really interesting take." I >> I thought that was great. And also that like the cyclops doesn't really speak.
It just kind of like gropes around and eats people like >> you know I thought I thought that was like a really great sequence. And for me that was like when the movie kind of first the the opening of the movie is very Nolan and intercut which >> my my my broad criticism of Nolan is I think he's more interested in structural flare than storytelling and character which works to his disadvantage >> at the beginning of the movie. Once he settles into it I think it's better. But um >> uh but the Cyclops sequence I thought was really well done. I remember watching it and being like this is great and I feel nothing. you know, I don't have that like sense of like, YOU KNOW, YEAH, THEY DID IT, YOU KNOW, LIKE I'm not I'm not getting that out of any of the big setpiece sequences. And I'm also not getting misty eyed at any of like the emotional set pieces with like his reunion with Penelopey or his reunion with Tmicus or, >> you know, uh, Cersei, you know, like I but I but but because I'm so familiar with the source material, is that because I'm too familiar with the source material? there's no surprise there, >> you know. So, maybe that's a part of it.
>> That might be because I I am so like detached from it.
>> I had an initial theory because I uh was like sort of remembering bits and pieces of the Odyssey as I was watching. I'm like, "Oh, this is kind of I'm going to say maybe a hot take as well." Um, I don't think the Odyssey movie that Nolan made is necessarily a good piece to just understand the Odyssey itself. Oh, I um I I I I want I want to hear you out, but I don't know if I if I agree >> because >> my knee-jerk reaction is I disagree >> because I I feel like oddly I had more enjoyment uh seeing how Nolan interpreted parts of the Odyssey in his own uh like in his own way. uh like the context of the Odyssey and how it differs from the original is what kind of for me elevates it >> uh in a way that I found really interesting. Um rather than it being like if you want to if you want to consume the Odyssey, I don't know if I'd say Nolan's is like the one that you should watch, I would say read the Odyssey and this is a good companion piece to like modernize it in a current era in a in an interpretation that's really interesting. I agree with that.
Actually, you convinced me. But but you know, and one of the things that first off, let me say straight up, the Odyssey is catching heat from the most mouth breathing, neck bearded chuds online.
And these these trolls and ass hats should be just like [ __ ] ignore them.
Do not give their their conversation any steam. Yeah, >> I I cite them here only to say like I I can't imagine like a lot of people are taking issue with the casting of Lupita Niongo as as Helen. It's like >> you're telling me that one of the most beautiful women in history is not fit to be played by Lupita Niongo. Yeah.
>> GET THE [ __ ] OUT of here, you ass hats.
you know, like >> she's gorgeous and and and like those people I think aren't real in that these are not real opinions. They just see the thing >> [ __ ] culture war clickbait [ __ ] I'm just so tired of it. But but I cite it only to say like I I I'm not in my in my like me towards the Odyssey. I do not want anyone to think for a second I'm trying to like cover for that being my real take. That's not my real take. I think that, you know, to to your point, Brian, of, you know, if you want to consume the Odyssey, read it. Don't don't watch it. I agree with that.
However, I think that this is a really great introduction to the Odyssey. Yeah, I I think and I think it covers a lot of it really well. Um, I think that it it certainly gives you a sense of like the sweeping epicness of the Odyssey.
One of the things I think it misses, and this is something Emily Wilson critiqued, maybe Daniel Mendelson, one of these like famed translators of the Odyssey critiqued after seeing it, is like >> Adysius is like a little bit of like an imp, you know, like he's like a little bit of like a [ __ ] boy is the wrong word, but like, you know, he's like a little saucy. like he's like, you know, kind of cracking jokes in the Odyssey, you know, when he >> going back to the uh the Cyclops, you know, like when he fires him the arrow off at him, >> that's kind of the only moment in the movie you see Adysius being a little bit like, AH, [ __ ] YOU. I GOT YOU, you cyclops. He's doing that constantly, you know, and Nolan made him a lot more like kind of haunted by his past decisions.
It felt like ancient Greek Oppenheimer, you know, like which I think is also true of of Adysius, but without those other dimensions to it, he starts to feel just a little bit flatter and a little bit less >> interesting in his filmic adaptation than he is in the source material.
Obviously, it's a movie. You got to cut some stuff for time. You have to make some choices. Ultimately, I think it's a a pretty accurate portrayal of him. Um, but you know, stuff like that is stuff you miss when you're not reading it, you know.
>> Yeah. Which is I I think that's what I've heard online as well that like you can definitely see some aspects of Oenheimer like in this movie. Yeah.
where it didn't that's not necessarily where the original Odyssey like this idea of like the kind of regret of man of the what Odyssey did or or what Odysius did at Troy is not necessarily I feel like the same in uh like the the the poem. Um, but I think I actually that's why I think this is a good companion piece because the original Odysius is like yeah he's like a troll kind of in that or the impage quality of like when he talks to Polythemis the thing he says is like I'm no one >> no one is blinded nobody is and it's like a little pun little joke like he's clever and all that. Um, but I think because Nolan wanted to tell a story about uh, you know, it's it was it's a bit of a darker take in that um, a gritty reboot of the Odyssey. It's a little it's a bit grittier in in [laughter] the sense that uh Odysius feels that he has essentially I mean this is I think essentially ancient Greeks nuke and that um the whole the whole all of the Odyssey was kind of pressing on this idea of the law of Zeus.
>> Yes.
>> Um where what you're supposed to do is you greet strangers um and >> as you would be greeted. as you would be greeted.
>> That's the golden rule, right? It's do unto others as they would do unto you.
>> And specifically Odysius, they set him up to be a person who like doesn't like being uh underhanded when he's hunting.
He warns the animals before shooting them.
>> Um and so there's this like great cultural shift that because of Troy, because he tricked people into >> using using this like uh this horse as a gift for Athena, he abused this kinds of like God's laws. He he abused Zeus's law. He broke Zeus's law and it worked.
it worked su like remarkably well that it irrevocably changed the culture moving forward where um you know there's interpretations or I I think it's presumed that when they talk about the the men of sea it's Odysius's army or it could also be news spread out that like this has happened and now people don't care about the law of Zeus anymore and it's just spreading out like wildfire.
Yeah.
>> Uh the it's out it's the Pandora's box.
Um, and so I think to emphasize that regret, I think he just necessarily had to take away those aspects of Odysius. Well, it's difficult because you can't give Odysius that much regret without sacrificing some of his pride.
And that that's that's also kind of key to the myth of Odysius, which is something certainly highlighted in Cersei, and I think Emily Wilson does a good job highlighting it in her read of the Odyssey, too. It's like Adysius is really proud of how clever he is, >> you know? So, it's like, so if you're going to trade in that pride for regret, >> I think that's a valid dramatic choice.
It it didn't resonate with me, but like I think it's a valid choice, you know, but it's difficult to have that much regret while also being super proud of how clever you are. And that fundamentally shifts the balance of who this character is. And part of, you know, in in my reading of the Odyssey, part of my interpretation of like Adysius finding his way home is it's another way to trick the gods. Like, yeah, he's got Poseidon pissed at him.
He's got like Athena kind of pissed at him. Zeus is kind of pissed at him.
Helios is pissed at him, but he's so wily that he outsmarts them. And it becomes part of this ego that he's like even going to try to cheat death.
>> You know, when he goes to Teresus in the underworld, part of it is like, "Yeah, [ __ ] it. I can go to the underworld, you know, like like I'm Medicius. I'LL FIGURE IT OUT, you know. Um >> and uh and yeah, so that's part of him being like tied to the stake with the sirens, you know, like that's like that's why we got to do it. It's like >> right, >> but then it just made him sad, >> you know? It it he didn't have this kind of like I got them, you know, kind of a thing. So I I missed that a little bit of it. But but again, I think a lot of the choices that Nolan made to update this for a modern audience were really spot-on. I I >> I kind of uh I I I keep going back and forth on the modern American accents for everybody, >> but ultimately I think that's a smart choice. I I think he's saying I think he's recognizing correctly that you know like a a a Gen Z Gen Alpha person coming to the Odyssey for the first time in a movie theater is going to hear like oldtimey British accents and feel like the movie's too stuffy.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, I I think Tom Holland saying dad is part of that. I think that's like Yeah, that's how people talk now. And part of what gives in this Sarah Isles Johnston book I I referenced last week, Gods and um >> gods and monsters, uh I think, you know, she was very right. And part of what gives these myths their staying power is their reinvention for new generations time and time again. And I think this was >> very much reinvented for a new generation. Just didn't land with me.
>> And this is the movie I WAS MOST EXCITED ABOUT THIS.
>> Which is why I was I was very shocked. I I WAS ALSO SHOCKED >> cuz I came out of that movie thinking like this is I I think it's I thought it was like it kind of blew my mind. It kind of blew my mind.
>> I think that I think that's super this is not I want to be very clear. I don't think this is like >> No, you don't understand. If you don't like something that means I'm stupid.
>> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. Yeah. Like I really I I've genuinely every conversation I've had about it since I've seen it, part of the conversation has been like, "Am I a little bit broken inside that [laughter] I felt nothing?"
>> Like I mean I I do kind of get it where like you have this specific uh view of these characters and I think I don't have any attachment to them. So I I like this like different uh interpretation. Um, I I also just kind of wanted to talk about like the the charact the acting of of everybody. I thought there's something about the way that everyone acted. Maybe it's just like a Nolan film thing where they act just a little is there not like people.
It's like a little bit more poetic that kind kind of really suits the Odyssey for me. Yeah. Cuz like the Odyssey in general is like it's like a story like a legend. And so the way that people acted in it I think really suit that. Um, and for me, I think the everything else was engaging enough that the accents and stuff, I realized it really also doesn't matter.
>> No, it does.
>> Um, it's like as long >> No one spoke in a British accent in ancient Greece. Come on. What are we trying to do here?
>> And even even I also think it was kind of a good choice to like it's a good artistic choice also to make everybody like superstars like it's a superstar cast uh studded cast. Yeah. I think part of that also because everyone's recognizable, you kind of have this like, oh, this is like a movie, this is like a play where you kind of understand that these characters are like played.
Uh, and so it kind of gave a more grandiose experience for me anyway. Um, like it it is like this was almost like a dramatic version of the Odyssey like itself. Like we're not watching like history as it was told, like a realistic thing. Um, >> and the Odyssey arguably wasn't history.
Like there there was a city in in Asia Minor as it was back then, um, called Iliam, which is why it's the Iliad. That city's also known as Troy. There was probably a war there. Certainly wasn't the case that Athena came down to the battlefield to help out, you know, like.
So it it's a and even the identity of Homer is I think currently thought to be sort of like well yeah there was a poet named Homer but I don't think he like sat down and wrote it out. I think this was a collection of >> oral tales and oral histories that kind of just you know sort of solidified uh over the over the generations.
>> Um but I bet when Homer told it to people they felt something. [laughter] >> That's so funny. It I just I it really it made me go like am I a [ __ ] robot?
Like what has happened to me? I it I think the core emotion that I felt more than like a connection to the characters was kind of this was almost I can't think of a better word but like an aura farming movie and that a lot of the moments were just kind of like oh my god like it's seeing like seeing Agamemnon when the gate opens he's just like standing there menacingly and he's just like the way he's presented is just so Shadow of War.
>> Yeah. And like his face is covered in shadow and he just looks so cool. Um like every time like they set up the the the stringing of the bow and dong every time and so to set up the end the final battle where he like >> does essentially the warning shot to everybody in the room.
>> Uh like I it was almost more like a uh shownen anime to me in that sense.
>> What does that mean?
>> Um [laughter] That's fair. Uh, so shownen is like a genre or it's like a it's I don't know exact translation, but it's basically the manga anime for young boys.
>> Okay.
>> Uh, but it's like like the power fantasy. It's a um it's about like >> you like Naruto's Dragon Ball like >> that kind of genre of anime is like just grouped as shownen. JJK. Um, uh, Chainsaw Man, like that kind of stuff.
>> Yeah, Dragon Ball. Dragon Ball was on TV when I was like 13. Like Dragon Ball somehow I'm familiar with.
>> Dragon Ball is like the godf well the father of shownen. Um, so like in that sense it's like kind of just showing these moments of like Odysius and um in a way that like I felt just was really cool and uh uh epic.
>> Um, oh that was another thing I kind of wanted to say is that watching it in IMAX was an interesting experience because I think if you watch it in like a standard format, I don't think you'd lose a lot of information. I think most of the movie would actually work. Uh, but what you do lose was like the sense of scale of certain things. Yeah.
>> Like a a whole building you see the entirety of like top to bottom in IMAX, but I bet it when it's cut to just show the like important stuff. You don't really get the sense.
[laughter] >> Exactly. You're like, well, it's not it doesn't really connect, which I I really appreciate about the IMX experience. Um, but yeah, I think the sense of grandness and epicess that the the movie had is like mostly what I appreciated. Um, I I kind of want to just talk about like different the ways that like Nolan interpreted different things that I thought were really interesting. Um, particularly I kind of liked generally I I like the decision to make the um kind of fantastical elements like the gods and even like the beauty of Helen or whatever kind of more grounded I guess.
Um like the fact that the gods like talk to him specifically just through like the the through nature and like >> yeah it's like Athena's thing at the beginning. She's like who doesn't understand pain? Who doesn't understand death? I was like, "Yeah, you know, that that makes the gods feel present in in ways that are maybe a little bit more metaphorical than like and Zeus came down and had a conversation [laughter] and he had a big fluffy beard, you know, like I I I like that it it was a way to make them clearly real because thunder and waves were happening as things were happening, but still mystical and like uh you know, it doesn't humanize them, which is like weird because like the whole thing with gods are they're kind of like humans but bigger. Anyway, um but what one part I thought was really interesting was um I don't since I didn't read the Odyssey, I don't know how true it is, but uh in the Odyssey, is it literally like the beauty of Troy or the beauty of Helen is kind of what starts the war?
>> It's um that that happens in the Iliad.
Um and I think it also like it happens before the Iliad starts. Like so that the Iliad mostly takes place on the beaches of Troy. everyone just sitting there waiting for Achilles to get off his duff and like go in and like slash some stuff up, but Achilles is all worried about his heel, >> loser. [laughter] Um, but yeah, it's the idea is that like, you know, uh I think it's Hector or I think Hector captures Helen or maybe it's Prime >> um captures Helen uh to be uh their wife.
>> Yes. Um but but Nolan makes the point in the Odyssey that like well it was really kind of about these trade routes and that was sort of the excuse.
>> Um I think that's like a very I like that take. I think it's a very modern take. You know, I I think I think historically the the take was probably like >> no, it's this like, you know, weird doomed romantic gesture, although a deeply creepy and possessive uh one, you know, that Helen was the the face that launched a thousand ships, you know. Um >> I I think that's how it's classically portrayed. I think Nolan's reinterpretation of it as being like, "Hey, this guy used it as an excuse is more cynical and more modern, but I like it." Mhm.
>> Yeah.
>> Um yeah, I think cuz that that also I think has >> more modern sensibilities of like people >> back then I think people are a lot more romantic and like oh the beauty of one singular woman >> and also it was an epic poem you know it was it was meant to be this kind of mythic tale. What Nolan has done with that specific detail of well it's really about these trade routes is kind of anchor it in something that like my god who who watching the Odyssey in the midst of the straight of hormuz being shut down [laughter] doesn't appreciate the importance of a good trade route you know like everyone watching it's like yeah I mean I guess like yeah like I you know we could say it's about Helen but really we want that hormuz back open you know um like you know I think that makes sense >> and other than just like spelling that out which he does. Um I think another way he kind of shows that is the fact that he made uh Helen's sister a twin sister.
>> Claim Cladamnestra is a twin sister. So it it be interesting that like the beauty of one woman who clearly has an identical look to a sister >> by definition not a unique beauty on this planet. She's got a twin.
>> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] No, by in a literal sense. So, it's like it doesn't really make sense that like her singular beauty had caused this. And I think that was a really fun way to to go about it, but I also think it's interesting that I don't know if this happened in the original Odyssey that uh Helen like names her face or like it's not known if she did it or someone else did it.
>> I don't recall. Um, but it's like even though there's all these different things, like she still blames herself for uh making this war happen to the point where to prevent it from happening again, she like names her face. At least that's an interpretation we can have.
Um, >> yeah, my interpretation on the on the movie, cuz I don't remember whether or not what happens to Helen after the war uh from the book. Yeah. My interpretation in the movie was that that had been done to her >> um as punishment for uh for her and Clyde not welcoming Agenm home with open arms.
>> Okay. I my my interpretation was very much that was something that was done to her and that fed into her bitterness about now now being property of Menaaus, you know, like which also sucks, you know, like >> um you know, I thought I thought I didn't think Lupita Nionga was given very much to do, but I thought with what little she had, she really did a great job conveying just the bitterness and how sick of all this like, you know, dickwagging war [ __ ] she was. Um, I I thought I thought she really did really well with that.
>> Yeah. Um, I I also just want to say I really like the um for some reason I really enjoy the actor who portrayed um Oh, what what is um Adysius's secondhand?
>> Oh, Urilicus.
He was great.
>> I I thought he was fantastic.
>> Just something about the way that he portrayed the character just like really resonated with me for some reason. He had a couple of really good moments of like you didn't tell us, you [laughter] know, like where just clearly for as brilliant and as much of a reputation as Odysius had, that guy was if not able to see through it, at least able to question it in a way that I thought was like really a nice counterpoint.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> It's like clearly his second hand is really smart. uh also like is doesn't doesn't it's not that he doesn't trust Odysius more so that like he doesn't understand yeah he doesn't understand what's happening >> um in a way that I thought was really nice to see >> uh I really liked uh Elliot Paige as I think >> I thought he was great >> I think he did a really good and something about the way that the build of Elliot also like really worked for me where it was kind of like just a very slim like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Um, also specifically at the the scene where they were speaking to the dead where Sanan had to like come back and tell him like you lied to me and angry and it just was like >> oh these these moments.
>> I thought that was great. I loved that that scene with Teresus the blind uh the blind sear. Yeah.
>> Who by the way James Remar if you've ever watched Warriors uh was James Remar in there.
>> There you go.
>> You may have seen him recently on Welcome to Dairy. He was like the general who was overseeing the the dig.
Um >> but yeah, I I thought that whole sequence was great.
>> I think that was great.
>> I felt nothing during it, but I liked [laughter] it.
>> Uh just it was it was nice. Um and I also really like the way Rob Patterson uh acted as his character. It's >> I'm such a I'm such a sucker for Patson, man. I'm so in the bag for him. Like he's >> ever since I saw Good Times, I'm like this guy can do no wrong. He's phenomenal. He's and he's so he was so good at like acting as this like smart me like bad like >> he's such a great dick.
>> He's so he's he's a dick. Yeah, he's a dick and it's really fun. Um and uh some I saw on Twitter where cuz at the end where he like is telling people what to do like in the fight.
>> He's not grabbing his sword. He's not getting and someone's like, "Dude, this is like the top tier Beexley gamer right here." [laughter] He's like, "You got to do this. You got to do this."
>> Uh yeah. Um, yeah. I I I overall overall I think I had a really good time. I thought it was epic. Um, [snorts] and uh I I want to I want to watch it again cuz I was very I was kind of there was a sleepiness under my eyes while watching it.
>> Yeah, sure. Cuz I saw it at 7 a.m.
>> Saw it at 7 a.m. that I I would like to see with fresh eyes. Also, even if you're not seeing The Odyssey, I think people who don't live in LA don't understand how much Hollywood at 7 a.m.
is just brutal. Like, like everything.
Oh, those those like stars you're laying down and taking your picture next to, they're still covered in piss and puke from the night before. Like, you know, you got the characters everyone takes their picture with are like rolling in and setting up shop and like swishing their mouth out with Listerine, spitting it in the gutter. Like it's I used to work at Hollywood and Highland Mall which is where the the Chinese theater is and like >> man that place is groy in the morning.
It is just there's no there's no glitz or glam. It's not tinsel town yet. It's just a street.
>> Sure. Yeah.
>> That's a gnarly way to start your day.
>> It's luckily I just went to the parking lot and just went to the place. But >> um >> um All right. Well, let's let's move on because we have other unless there's anything else on Odyssey. We'll do a quick if you were to rank it in like a tier list type A through F, uh, where would you put the Odyssey or this interpretation of the Odyssey?
>> Oo, as as an as a film adaptation, A as a uh film in its own right. B, um, as a movie I will think about and watch again. C. Wow. Okay. Uh, for me, the same things as a movie adaptation. I don't know enough of the Odyssey, so I don't know. Uh, as a movie itself, I I think it's uh I would place it in an A.
And same thing with uh if I would watch it again, an A. I think there's there's maybe a little bit where I wouldn't put it in that legendary S tier movie, but it is a movie that um I wouldn't mind if someone was like, "Let's go watch it again." I'd be like, "Let's freaking do it. Let's freaking do it." I I I I couldn't help but think of Dune part two while I was watching it and being [clears throat] like, "Doom part two ruled so much. Why isn't this connecting with me more?" And the answer, "Not enough sandworms."
>> Not enough [laughter] sandworms.
>> That's true.
>> Yeah. Get that spice in there, baby. Um, okay. So, let's move on. We also got just this morning, Marvel finally released the Doomsday trailer um ahead of Comic-Con. They're trying to dominate the conversation early. Uh, what what's your immediate reaction to the Doomsday trailer? Your gut reaction before thinking about what you're excited to see just when you watched it, what was your thought?
>> I my initial gut reaction is a little bit finally we get to see it. [laughter] I was like, oh my god. And maybe and unfortunately it's because I work in the industry and because we've done a bunch of videos with Eric talking about the everything. It was like, oh, this is literally exactly what Eric said it was.
showed at Cineon.
>> They showed it at Cine because the exact trailer they showed at Cineacon where I was like >> uh the the immediate hype wasn't there for me because I was like, "Oh, it's I already knew all of this. I already knew all of this."
>> But it is cool hearing Robert Downey Jr.
speak in a Lavarian accent uh as Doom.
And it is cool to see uh like Doom do the little finger thing and like block Stormbreaker. Um, and just to see I don't know. It was like it's real. The other thing I felt was relief from not seeing any more of these AI generated versions of these trailers. My god, it is I'm tired of seeing all these fake trailers with AI generation. I'm like, thank you. We have something real. Yes.
>> There's something something relieving about seeing a real thing that I didn't realize I was wanting.
>> Yes. Yeah. I my Yeah. It's funny you said like uh that your first reaction was finally. My first reaction, let me set the stage for for how I came to know there was a doomsday trailer today is uh I had to get up early today because we were having a sewer crew come to my house to hydrojet our drains so that sewage didn't back up into our tubs. So, I woke up early waiting for people to come clean my [ __ ] out of my house. Classic. And before I even had coffee, I was like checking my phone while taking the dogs out and was just like, "Ah, [sighs] [ __ ] There's a trailer. It's going to be a whole thing [laughter] today." So, my first reaction was like, you know, quarter of 8 a.m.
exhaustion.
>> But then when I actually watched her, I was like, "This rules." Yeah.
>> Cuz like, you know, it is it is the trailer Eric saw in February or whenever Cineacon was, April, I can't remember.
Um, it it is the trailer Eric saw ages ago, but also I remember his description of it then, but I haven't been like following it. And so I kind of felt like I got to watch it for the first time with everybody else AND WAS LIKE, YEAH, [screaming] YOU KNOW, LIKE >> I I've been I've been re-watching a lot of the old Marvel movies for sake of Road to Doomsday.
>> And I have a theory that the best villains are other Marvel heroes. And so when I see like Shanqi and Gambit fighting, I'm like, "Hell yeah, this rules." You know, like I'm like, "That's going to be a good fight, you know, like." And I bet the fights with with Doom will also be awesome.
>> But I'll I'll take a Marvel hero fighting another hero in a moment of like mistaken identity over like, you know, Ronin the Accuser or like, you know, like some some villain who's made just for the movie, like, you know, your ghosts or whatever. Like those fights are never as satisfying as when you're like, I don't know, Captain Bucky seemed like they're going to kill Iron Man.
[laughter] >> Right. Right.
>> Um but yeah, I thought I thought it was a great trailer.
>> Yeah, >> I thought it looked awesome. Yeah.
>> What I also appreciated was just we get to see I think the MCU is best when we see these interactions with different characters and it's like, oh my god. You know what? I I knew I was excited to see Doomsday, but I'm like, yes, this is what it's all about. Yeah. as these different factions working together in order to stop a bigger threat and then like seeing like oh I wonder how yeah the X-Men are going to interact with the MCU like how's this going to work out it's going to be weird um >> yeah I mean I also think like you know during the so for for those who are curious there will by the time the video Brian and I are taping comes out on breakroom there will be a full breakdown from Eric on the new Rockstars channel in addition to a two-hour live stream where he's answering questions and stuff So, uh, any of those kinds of questions, that's where you should go to get those answers. This is this is vibes, >> right?
>> We're we're here for vibes. You know, >> vibes of Doomsday.
>> One of the things I really liked about the Doomsday trailer was >> it seems like the Russo brothers are kind of going, "Hey, there's three universes. There's the X-Men universe, there's the MCU, and then there's the Fantastic Four." Yeah. And those are coming together. And I think having rewatched Infinity War and Endgame recently and Civil War, something the Russo brothers are really, really good at is taking a bunch of characters and being like, you can think of them as one character. They all have one goal. They might go about it different ways. Sure.
>> It's it's a little bit similar to what Guy Richie does in, you know, Locktock and and um and Snatch, where Guy Richie does the opposite. He'll take fundamentally what is one character and break it up into a group of like three or four people so that like they're not as distinct from one another. They they have distinctnesses from one another. Um but really it's his way of going, hey, how can I have a character like always have some He's just externalizing this character's internal conflicts by making them three people. Yeah. And I think the Russo brothers are really, really good at going like, we're going to take these characters that have a little bit of conflict with one another, but are fundamentally on the same page and make them a group, and then we'll tell that group's story. And I and it's a really great economic way of simplifying a massive cast. And I'm excited to see that on display already just in the trailer of Doomsday.
>> Yeah.
>> Cuz I think we all saw that chairs pronouncement. We were like, what is this movie going to be? [laughter] Right.
>> 2,000 people in this movie. people, >> which you're right. I think just like it's the Fantastic 4. It's not just each character. It's like them as a group as like a charact. It's the Fantastic 4 character as the X-Men as a character.
Yeah.
>> Uh the Avengers as a character, which Yeah. I think that's a really good way to think about it.
>> Yeah. So, I I think that I think that simplifies it and it makes it allows them to focus on the overall story, right? like no one's, you know, it's a very different movie from something like Logan, which was not the Russo brothers, it was James Mangle, but like Logan's fundamentally about like Wolverine, you know, and this like kind of legacy and passing of the torch. Like you you wouldn't want to do that for that story.
That doesn't seem like the type of story we're trying to tell with Doomsday. This is a hey, here's something that's so much bigger than any of our individual differences. it's going to force us to work together sometimes in these like uncomfortable alliances, but maybe they're not as uncomfortable as we initially thought, you know, is kind of what you wind up with in like Endgame where everyone's like, "Yeah, Nebula's okay, you [laughter] know, we can get along with Nebula. That's fine, you know." Um, >> yeah. So, I'm I'm I'm super into it. Uh, I, you know, speaking to your finally feeling, >> I am like, you guys couldn't have released this. you [laughter] we had to wait five months so you could put in an extra shot of Loki with his you know like day pass from the TVA or whatever. Um >> he um I mean I guess they wanted to have the hype right before Comic-Con maybe to just like lift that up >> and tickets went on sale. Yeah.
>> You know there's always a tickets on on sale trailer for the Marvel movies. Did you get before you saw the Odyssey did you get the sad Brand New Day trailer?
the >> where it's like it's very melancholy and it's all clips from like Homecoming and Far From Home and No Way Home. I got that trailer before seeing the Odyssey.
>> Interesting.
>> Yeah, it was I mean to me it was new.
Maybe it's it's been online somewhere else, but I was like, "Oh, this is like kind of like it's like a bummer, you know, like >> um but uh anyways, I I digress." But yeah, there's always a trailer for tickets on sale. So, you know, we kind of knew there that was coming and I don't think anybody thought we'd make it through Comic-Con without getting a trailer.
>> Oh, 100%. And then the question was like, will they show it before or during Comic-Con? And now it's like now that they revealed this trailer, what are they going to do at Comic-Con? What are they going to show at Comic-Con? I could see a world in which similar to how they had the four character teasers before Avatar in December or whenever. Um I could see a world in which there is there are like character teaser trailers released this coming weekend. You know, like I bet I bet someone at Marvel in their like Marcom department or whatever like has six character teasers each of which is 30 seconds long or maybe more.
Maybe they have a dozen, you know, and they're waiting to see what the what the hype is after the trailer. And if people are like really into like Shy, they'll be like, "Oh, here's the Shy teaser, you know, and then that'll drop." Or, you know, if they're like, >> "People want more of Doom." Like, we're definitely going to get a trailer from Doom's perspective that's like good guy, [laughter] you know, or whatever. I can't I haven't I haven't listened to enough of the trailer to be able to mirror the the Latvian accent yet, but you know, that's my that's my first take is deep cartoonish Russian, [laughter] >> which is what Liver is.
>> Yeah.
>> Um Yeah. I I feel like since they already showed the stuff for Doomsday, I think show teasing stuff for Secret Wars makes a lot of sense. Um >> but there's only so much you can tease without spoiling Doomsday, >> I guess. So, I guess you wouldn't want to like show like who survives or who lives or all that stuff.
>> Uh, but maybe just aspects of Battle World that they'll show.
>> Um, or maybe not. Yeah, I don't know. I That's the thing. It's like because uh Secret Wars is so dependent on what happens in Doomsday. I don't know how much they can show of that. And so it makes me curious like what else could they show other than maybe more of what the MCU X-Men look like or like the the X-Men in this world? Um will they have more character reveals? Like will they finally announce that Doctor Strange is in the movie even though he like should be or Spider-Man or you know stuff like that? Something really interesting that also happened today, and I don't think it's any I don't think it's any coincidence that this this that Kevin Feige said this the same day the Doomsday trailer came out.
>> But was that blurb about like, "Yeah, hey, we goofed on Blade."
>> Yeah.
>> You know, which is overly reductive. He was like, "We weren't able to get it off the ground. Our focus was too thin. You know, Kevin Feige was taking responsibility for it." I wonder if they will use Comic-Con to kind of rather than specifically talk about, hey, here's what's going to happen in Secret Wars or here's what's going to happen in Jake Shrier's X-Men movie or, you know, here's this, this, that. I wonder if they're going to be like, hey, here's the new alignment of the MCU.
>> You know, the MCU has been I I think it's fair to say it's been a little bit creatively a drift since since Endgame.
That's not to say it's been total garbage. Shanqi was post Endgame and Shanqi rules, Wonderman rules, you know, like there's there has been really good stuff since Endgame. Um, No Way Home was since Endgame, No Way Home rules, you know, like uh >> but it has also had Secret Invasion, [laughter] you know, Marvel, you know, like it's it's also had a bunch of swings and misses. And I think with the Blade announcement, part of like the, you know, the 4D chess of it is, hey, we're gonna cop to our mistakes and we're gonna just shut those combos down, right? Like Sure. because for years any you know it's sort of like I read uh over Fourth of July weekend Polygon was doing like a series of spicy takes and one of them was someone who's like George George RR Martin should quit writing Winds of Winter or [laughter] or or Feast of Dance of Dragons whatever the the one that hasn't come out to us >> because he can't do a press appearance without somebody asking him about it.
>> Yeah.
>> It's it's diverting attention from the other good stuff that he is also doing.
And I think Kevin Feige shutting down Blade might be one of several bits of rumor squashing we see in the next, you know, week or two. Uh, you know, what's I think we will hear them say conclusive things about what's not >> in Secret Wars or what's not in Doomsday >> just to steer the conversation. Okay?
Because if people are excited about something, but you can't have the conversation about what they're excited about without the stuff they're also butth hurt about, just address the butth hurt stuff and let's double down on excitement.
>> For sure. Get a little preparation h in there.
>> That's a [laughter] Yeah.
>> Uh I think it's probably a smart idea to address that and like shut it down. But I feel like at Comic-Con the vibe is just like >> the vibe is hype.
>> It's just hype. So we'll see. We'll see what they do.
>> Yeah. Yeah. No, I I think I'm probably wrong. You know how like like Gina was right was such a such a thing for a while cuz Gina was like they're going to bring out RDJ and then they did.
[laughter] >> I think also #berg was wrong. You know it >> is perhaps like a less satisfying hashtag for me personally. I would love to be right all the time.
>> But I think it's probably the case that in this in this instance I'm wrong.
>> You heard it here folks. Hashtag burgers wrong. Uh quick question. Now that you saw the trailer, how do you feel about RDJ being cast as Dr. Doom?
>> I'm lukewarm on it. I I don't have enough information from the trailer to say it's good or bad casting. I think a lot of it is just going to depend on, hey, do do I like his performance? And I don't have enough of that in the trailer. It seems promising. Mhm.
>> I'm I'm certainly open to it, you know, but it's a little bit like um >> you Let's talk about The Nutty Professor for a second and how and how Eddie Murphy's film The Nutty Professor relates to uh Avengers Doomsday.
>> Uh Eddie Murphy plays, you know, a dozen roles in The Nutty Professor >> and I don't care because it works. If it didn't work, it would feel indulgent, >> right?
>> If RDJ playing Dr. or Doom feels indulgent, then I'll be upset. But if it works, I won't really care. You know, like I don't have a lot invested in, you know, what this Doom's connection to Iron Man winds up being. It would feel weird if they didn't address it. Um, but that to me is less important than just does it feel like a good and threatening villain. If it does, then I'm okay with it. you know, like uh Benedict Cumberbatch played uh Dormamu in the first Doctor Strange movie and like that's a very warped version of him, but like I don't care, you know, it's like cuz the the character is good enough that I don't care about who's playing him. Yeah.
>> And ultimately I think a good portrayal of a character in any movie will do that. So I think RDJ is like a pretty talented performer. Um I'm open to him being Doom. I don't have enough to to weigh in based off the trailer alone.
>> Sure. Uh what about you? I think for me the trailer actually did bring more excitement about him being Doom. I think initially I was on the team of like this doesn't it just doesn't make any sense.
Like why is the guy who played Iron Man in this and they're are they going to address it with the characters? Like how's that any of that going to work? Um is he going to do a Lverian accent of some kind? Like how different is he going to portray Doom versus Taken Iron Man? But I think the trailer showed me that I I mean I think I knew this that Downey is really good at playing these different kinds of characters, but it just him having a different voice that you can tell it's him, but it's still so different that like >> it's very distinct.
>> It's a super distinct voice.
>> Not only in voice, but also in mannerism from anything Tony >> Star. It's pretty imposing. Um and because of that, because I felt I'm like, "Oh, this is like this is Doom.
This isn't like RDJ playing This isn't Tony Stark playing a different character. Like it's so >> Yeah. It doesn't feel like a Tony variant. It feels like its own thing.
Yeah.
>> It's like very clearly not a variant. Uh we'll we'll see exactly why Tony as or RDJ as a cast makes like more narrative sense once the movie comes out. But now I'm I'm less worried about how this is going to look because of the trailer.
Yeah. Uh which is I think which is great. Um, having Doom be the uh the voice over and kind of front and center in the trailer I think was a great move.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh, just to like spell that kind of uh idea. Um, which I really like.
>> Uh, I I still can't believe this is kind of unrelated, but I can't believe that Chad Channing Tatum Gambit is still [laughter] here Gambit forward trailer.
It's so funny to me because, correct me if I'm wrong, but in Deadpool and Wolverine, he's kind of a punchline.
>> Yeah, he's he's entirely a joke character. He's almost entirely a joke character.
>> The gag is just that he says something and everyone goes, "Huh?"
[laughter] You know, like that's that's the whole thing.
>> It's like loosely implied that he was born in the void or he was like, "I might have been born in here." I don't know. like he doesn't have a he doesn't have a >> history Gambit movie was sheld before it was ever made. Yes.
>> It's all premised as a joke. And so now that he's in like canon in the MCU in the X-Men world presumably is like wait so is this Deadpool Wolverine Gambit or is this a variant of that Gambit who's native to this X-Men world? I there's too much what's going on with that character. Yeah, >> I have no idea. Yeah, it is very funny.
And because also like, you know, I watched X-Men and I know we're running long. We also got to talk about X-Men 97. Maybe we'll have to speedrush the the rest of the stuff that's imprompter.
Uh or just go along. I don't know what's in studio today, but um but you know, I always really liked Gambit, but he's not someone who I'm like, when Gambit joins the fight, you're so screwed. You know, it's like I like him, but he's he's not like a Wolverine or like a rogue level like you storm, you know, level character. He's like a Jubilee level character for me.
>> Oh, really?
>> In In my opinion?
>> Oh, wow.
>> In my opinion, yes. I think Gambit is Jubilee level. I don't think >> that's I think that's a hot take.
>> You think that's a hot take?
>> I don't think he's Jubilee level.
>> I think emotionally I'm I'm more attached to him than I am to Jubilee.
Sure.
>> But I think in terms of his powers, >> at the very least seen in X-Men 97, I think he's shown charging up the clock.
He's he's able to do more destructive abilities and stuff. But you can't tell me that season one of X-Men 97 wasn't the first time you were like he COULD CHARGE UP WOLVERINE'S CLAWS.
>> TO BE FAIR, X-Men 97 is also the first time I thought Cyclops was cool. I'm like, oh, you could freaking beam blast the ground to like without a parachute and you can use a momentum. Um, I think the the potential over Gambit Well, I guess we don't know how strong I mean he he explodes himself and destroys like the mega mold or whatever the thing was called. Uh, so >> very powerful genocide robot. [laughter] Exactly. Yeah. Um, >> so I I I think a lot of people are really hyped for Gambit in general. Uh, and so but but that's why I'm like of two minds where because in my mind Gambit's kind of a cool character like he's really cool, but Channing Tatum Gambit is more funny than cool. He's a he's a parody character almost. Yeah.
And so I don't know how to feel about >> my guess is >> him being presented like straight on.
>> They're gonna they're going to dial his accent back like they dialed back Wanda's accent. [laughter] You know, it's like we're going to get a Gambit who's like I say, old boy, you know, like bit of kinetic energy for you. Yeah. [laughter] You know, like it's not we're not going to get like, you know, uh dad gum got you go got me a big big old bash and fry it up and have freaking seat, you know.
We're not going to get that. No, we need to have him say his classic lies. I'm going to make a name for myself.
[laughter] Remember, >> I'm about to make a name for myself.
>> Yeah. I mean, I will say peak will be if we get Channing Tatum in a crop top making beignes in the X mansion.
>> That's what I'm saying.
>> I'm way on board. I'm way on board.
>> He He work out. He's He's that fit.
>> Yeah, he's fit in a 12 crop top.
>> Oh, yeah. 100%.
>> You do that.
>> Um there Oh, another thing I wanted to mention. Um, I didn't notice this until I saw it on Twitter that we already do see a reason why Dr. Doom is more powerful than Thanos.
>> Is it the Stormbreaker thing?
>> Is the Stormbreaker thing cuz I forgot in uh Infinity War >> uh Thanos uses the Infinity Gauntlet to make a beam blast and then Thor throws the Stormbreaker and it cuts through the blast and then hits uh >> him in the chest. Yeah. But Doom is able to just block it with two fingers. And so this guy is, if you scale that, if you're a power scaler, uh is stronger than the blast of six infinity stones with a single touch of a finger.
>> Well, maybe uh cuz like Thanos is doing that blast, but also the gauntlet can activate individual stones. So it's possible that that was like a one stone blast or like you know, like he's just doing like a power beam, like he's just doing time, you know. So, it's like I I I'd have to rewatch the the scene from Infinity War, but I agree. It is a great demonstration of Doom's potential threat level.
>> Yeah, >> I do hope that they do a little bit more because I it's even though in in in the lore, Stormbreaker was able to cut through power stone blasts and is a very powerful weapon.
>> I think creates its own byrost.
>> It's a powerful weapon, but I think when you see it visually, it does just look like an axe. And so I hope that they show a bit more of how Doom is powerful.
Maybe we do see him destroy a Thanos variant outright. Um but I I I kind of want to see even more of how powerful uh Doom is. I think we will. I mean I think this was the I think this was like the the heroes trailer. I think we'll get like a villain trailer, you know, >> cuz also I can't remember the last movie that had one villain. Like Thanos definitely has a crew. He's rolling or not Thanos. Uh Doom definitely has a crew. He's rolling deep with Latvian thugs and goons and bots and all the rest, you know. Like >> we'll we'll get some other like fun, very powerful people. Um >> yeah, I'm sto I'm stoked for it. I'm super stoked for it. You know, I >> I've been stoked for Doomsday. I've been frustrated we didn't get the trailer.
>> Now my frustration is gone and I'm back to just being stoked, which is my happy place. I love a good trailer. I love being stoked. It's fun. Um, it's interesting though that I think that Doomsday is almost a beat forbeat like similar structure to Fantastic 4 and that there's this like worldending threat in a time limit and they have to figure out what's going on and how to defeat it and it's almost impossible to and so they'll have to find out like superhero genre.
>> I suppose you know like it's kind of in the same way like if you watch enough western movies you're like There's a lot of lone writers [laughter] around here, you know?
>> That's fair. That's fair. It's like part of the genre, right? You got to have your ticking clock. You got to have your global stakes. You got to have your emotional stakes. You got to have your problem solving in the second act. Like that's all that's all just part and parcel for the for the genre at this point. I think this is fair, but I think it's just because it was so recent from Fantastic 4 and and the like the specific the specificity of the time limit thing where it's like Galactus is going to come in a few months and we have we need to figure it out before then time will end. And then this one is we have however many hours before the Earth's come together and we have to figure it out. Uh it's pretty onetoone but uh you know what Doom was cool. It's funny watching that, my response was like, "Hang on, you guys know this problem's going to happen in like two days and you got everybody together. Who responds to emails and acts on [laughter] them that quickly?"
>> Like Thor's Thor's the organizing guy.
Like he's the guy who's setting up the time everybody can get together to get to brunch, you know? Like, and everybody's like, "Oh yeah, I could be there in an hour." That does not happen.
Someone's going to be like in the middle of something. They're like, "I got a thing I got to do on the other side of town. I didn't know I'd have to leave the house today, you know, like >> my car's my wife is blocking my car in the driveway, you know, like someone's going to have No way Red Guardian didn't have some other [ __ ] going on, you know?
>> Exactly. He's he's still wearing his little like suit from >> the suit. The suit's [laughter] a very funny detail. Yeah.
>> It's a good gag. Um, I want to ask you, >> this trailer, the one way it differentiated from the Cineacon trailer is that they straight up showed Loki.
>> Yes.
>> And specifically in his >> He's not on his throne.
>> He's not on his throne. And he has the outfit that he wears as the um uh not the accountant. What was the job that >> he's like an inspector or something? I can't remember. Yeah.
>> Um but he he has the outfit where when he was doing the when he was working on the floor.
>> Um what do you think that means? Is this is this still God of Stories Loki but doing something else or is this somehow like season one season two Loki?
>> I I don't think we're getting any of that going back in time stuff otherwise they'd recast Chala. You know what I mean? Like you can't go back in time on Loki and then be like, "But Tchala is not just not joined in this adventure."
You know what I mean? Like >> Sure.
>> I think I think what it is is that Loki, when you watch Loki's arc from his first appearance in the MCU up through the end of season two of his show, >> he goes he's always wanted to be a king.
>> Yes. But he goes from wanting to be a king for his own sake of grandeur and then ultimately in God of stories becoming a a king that serves. Yes.
>> With humility. And so I think when we see him in his suit that's just him not wearing any kind of like kingly regalia.
He's not wearing the robes he wore when he was a prince. He's not wearing his god of stories thing. He doesn't have his crown. I think that's him signaling that he has shed his ego and it's just he's like here to help. I think that's all it is. I don't think we're getting Loki back in time. I don't think this is a variant that I don't I I saw a lot of stuff during the live stream today of people going like well this has to be a variant from this place and it just makes everything so much more complicated because then you're like well then what's Shani doing here if we're just if [laughter] we're just ignoring everything since Endgame you know like >> you know there's it's I think all the stuff that happened since Endgame happened I think we're picking up with that continuity I think anything more than that requires so much leg work and script scripting for each character who has their own special timeline we're carving them out of. I think the most parsimonious explanation is that we're getting Loki post God of stories. He's hopped off the throne. He's got Eggdrail looking after itself for a minute somehow and now he's here to help in some other way.
>> Okay. Yeah. The only reason why I'm confused or skeptical is that, you know, it's it's like a little bit implied by the end of season 2 that Loki the reason why it's a burden is that he has to be >> at the throne. has to hold the timelines in order for it to flourish or whatever.
You know, he he has a sad look at the end because he sees his friend Mobius living life, but he can't be there with him because he has to sit by himself um doing that. So, it it's weird to me that we see Loki somewhere else like in a house. There's curtains um and so and he's I don't know what what's going on.
Um it's a little bit implied or people are speculating because when you see um Loki's little badge Yeah. the person holding it has a wedding band.
>> Yeah. That that's actually Steve.
>> It's probably Steve looking at it. Um, and this is actually making me think maybe this is this is a little bit before like this is before everything happening where um there was a theory slumor going around that one of the things is that Steve Rogers is actually brought into the 838 universe uh because of like time shenanigans and the way he gets there is through Loki. Loki's like, "Hey, things are going to get messed up, but I like you, so I want to save you and bring you to this different universe." And this may be that scene specifically explaining why Steve Rogers is in at all or how he's alive. How this is because this is not old man Steve. He's clearly young. Yeah. So, it's clearly be It's like some weird middle time that he exists.
>> Yeah. But I, you know, I also like I saw a lot of stuff today of people being like, you know, well, is this Thor from Ragnarok because his hair is short? is this Steve from uh Civil War cuz his hair is long and I'm like no [laughter] Thor.
>> No, Thor cut his hair.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Long time hair.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Like like everything since Ragnarok still happened. Thor just cut his hair. Steve grew his hair out. You know, like I I think I think part of what has happened because it has taken so long for this trailer to get here is all of these theories have been developing in a vacuum. Like the Captain Hydra theory. you know, because everyone's just been guessing at what could possibly be worth the reveal. And now that it's here, rather than reading the the trailer at face value, which isn't to say that's the 100% correct way to read it either, but rather than reading the trailer at face value, everybody's like bending over backwards to be like, okay, so we got Ragnarok Thor and season one Loki, you know, and it's like, no, we don't. We have modernday Loki and modern-day Thor and like his hair is different. and he's wearing a different suit, but the fact that he has on different clothes is easier to accept than and somehow we're undoing the end of season 2 of Loki.
Like they'll handwave it away. The TVA used to have a big like, you know, sphincter ring like pairing the timelines down. Like they'll just have some other containment ring while Loki's gone and then he can go back to it, you know, like >> but um >> but you know it's it I I think a lot of the theorizing going on around this trailer is like one theories are fun.
It's fun to theory craft. That's, you know, no, no shame in that. But when you actually start looking into him, you're like, it's Captain Hydra. Captain Hydra is worthy of Muolnir. Are you listening to yourselves? You [laughter] know, like, >> yeah, that part may be speculating is fun, but sometimes you got to you got to rain it in a little.
>> Yeah. Yeah. It's only It's only a fun theory if it uses all the evidence, [laughter] right?
>> You know, you can't just cherrypick the bits that support your theory. That's confirmation bias in a nutshell, my guy.
>> That's true. Um but yeah, so I I I think that um you know the the the the more interesting thing to me coming out of the um coming out of the trailer, the stuff like I am like ooh like what happens there is like well you know uh how what does an alliance between the Fantastic 4, the Wakandons and the Talican look like?
>> Yeah.
>> You know like how does that work? How does how does Shi, you know, who's like a very gifted and brilliant scientist, interact with Reed Richards, you know, like who is a scientist from like that sort of stuff is what I'm more excited about rather than like, you know, Thor's got a buzz cut and they clearly put the trimmers on six. Now, in Ragnarok, they were on a five, so it's been it's been three weeks, you know? It's like I'm like, that's not, you know, >> he just cut his hair. He cut his hair.
>> All the other stuff still happened. And he got a haircut.
>> True. That's true. He cut his hair. Thor got a haircut.
>> Thor got a haircut. That's it.
>> That is it.
>> It's not Ragnarok Thor. It's haircut Thor, who is also an a Ragnarok Thor, you know.
>> That's true. That's true. Uh either way, I I'm glad that they posted the trailer at all.
>> Me, too. I've watched it like a handful of times already today. It's great >> cuz like I watched it in the morning, then like, you know, while Eric was doing the live stream, I was watching as he was scrubbing through. Then I watched it again before this and was like that was fun. So, I watched it a third time, you [laughter] know, like it's a it's a great trailer. I'm stoked. I I hope something I see I imagine it'll be on on uh before all Brand New Day screenings.
>> So, I imagine I'll get to see it on a big screen before Brand New Day, which will be fun to see that with a crowd, you know. Um yeah, I'm stoked for it. I know what time it is. Do we have time to get into X-Men 97 and the rest of of all of our nonsense in >> You know what? I think >> we really kind of don't, right? Because I I I know I have stuff to do today.
>> Yeah, we definitely don't. Let me let me read a couple of comments real quick because I forgot to mention it up top, which is on me.
>> Um, we got a lot of people um uh chiming in about X-Men 97. We'll save your X-Men 97 comments for next week when we don't also have >> Well, next week we'll also have Comic- Con to talk about. Yeah, >> we I'll go in and respond to some of these is what I'll do from from last week because one, it's been very fun. A lot of you have been responding in the in the comments on YouTube and I've been going in there and doing my best to engage and it's been like very pleasant and nice and rewarding. So, I want to >> let's go.
>> I want to keep that going.
>> The best community.
>> And then Brian also did the the due diligence of taking like a dozen of these comments and putting them into the doc, but none of you talked about the Odyssey cuz you [laughter] haven't seen it yet, right?
>> And so none of these things wound up coming up. Um, uh, couple couple people saying nice things like, you know, uh, RFC 1878. Uh, great episode. I like what you guys have done with the channel.
Thank you so much. Uh, we also like what we've done with the channel, but it's it's nice to to hear it pared back to us.
>> Uh, Jumal 10 uh, screaming the movie is get out at the screen. [laughter] >> Yeah. When we both >> re-watching re-watching the clip of that is torture. [laughter] It feels like remember how like a couple months ago you'd see these press conferences of Mitch McConnell where he would just like reboot in real time. It was like watching watching me do that.
>> So funny.
>> Um you know uh Julian Hy 1925 saying I love the show and the setup is a vibe.
Keep going. This is for the people. Love that. Um thank you so much. Um also uh at Comic Central saying is there going to be a new Rockstar/breakroom stream for Marvel's SDCC panel? Yes, there is.
So, yeah, >> we will uh New Rockstars will put up a post sometime soon with a graphic with the full uh stream schedule. We're going to be streaming not only for Marvel's panel in Hall H on Saturday, I think from like 400 p.m. Pacific to like 7 or 7:30, I think, is the is the current schedule. Um, but we'll also be streaming the days beforehand with with news updates. Um, do you know the exact time of those streams or not yet? I don't think we know. think we have an exact time set up yet, but I think for sure like >> I think we are streaming each day of Comic-Con. So, Thursday, Friday, Saturday.
>> Yeah. So, we we will be streaming. We'll be that'll be over on the New Rockstars channel. We encourage all of you to come.
>> Um we'll have the big the big desk set back back up. Uh there will probably be Bureau's chugged to plenty.
>> Um >> but uh uh but yes, that is the plan for Comic-Con. Um, but so today we're sorry we didn't get a chance to get to X-Men 97. It rules. Um, and uh let's uh let's wrap it up there. Anything else?
>> I think so. Uh yeah, the last the before we end just to touch on X97. I feel bad for Morph Man.
>> I feel bad for Morph Man. Feel bad for >> That's the thing.
>> I feel bad.
>> Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Let's just do like uh Okay.
>> The quickest like one minute.
>> Yeah. Let's do one minute takes. Okay.
starting now. I feel bad so bad for Morph.
Wolverine is such a dick. But also, Wolverine, you could have just told Morph you wanted your adamantium back.
>> Also, yeah, there there's no there's no shame in wanting your old claws back.
Yes, it's fine. It's fine. Uh no, it's it's tragic cuz Morph is like I think very clearly in love with uh with Wolverine. Um, and even if it's just like for friendship, uh, it is sad to see that that couldn't break through to Wolverine and he had to break out the classic Jean and had to turn into Jean and be like, "Logan, please stop." And he's like, "Jean."
>> Yes. [laughter] >> Yes.
>> Um, someone did like I saw a tweet. It was like, you know, it's very true to like a queer person's experience of falling in love with your straight best friend and knowing that it'll never work out uh because it just won't. Uh, and yeah, it's just it's just sad, >> heartbreaking.
>> Um, >> I saw takes online about them not being happy that he wasn't able to break out through to Morph. Uh, it it was like Logan is like an X-Men. He's a friend.
Why would he not be able to resist with for Morph? Why does it have to be Gene?
But I think there is some >> this connection Jean's different.
>> It is different. And I think it's to emphasize the tragic nature of that relationship. You know, it's like uh it's a little bit doomed to fail. Um, yeah. So, >> yeah, I feel bad for that.
>> Okay. Well, that's our hot minute on X-Men 97. Go watch it. It was a great episode. I I'm so stoked for this week's episode. It's like my favorite show on TV right now.
>> Yes, sir.
>> Okay. Well, that's it for us today. Uh, make sure to like this video and subscribe to the Breakroom channel on YouTube. Give us a follow on Twitch where we do these streams live. If you want to support us directly, please consider buying a some merch from nerd riot.shop. We got Odyssey TE's, we got X-Men 97 TE's, we got Doomsday TE's. Um, so go over there if you already have something from your dry.shop, snap a pick of it. Tag us on socials if you're not already following us on socials.
We're Breakroom NR on uh Instagram, [music] Twitter, and Threads. Uh, that's it for this week. Thank you so much for tuning in. We will see you next time with our Comic Con Roundup. Peace.
Bye-bye.
[music]
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