Catching Up w/ the BL Fandom: Misogyny Accusations, Bromance Discourse & Wooju Bakery || S6E10

Added: 2026-05-22

[00:00:00]And then Gaga is at the scene of the crime again just like [laughter] we're airing it. Never mind. Yes, we're airing it again. [music] [music] Hi guys, welcome to Lovecast the BL podcast. I am your host Alexa and with me of course I have my fellow host Kayla.

[00:00:27]>> Hey. So, we are back for another long awaited catching up with the BL fandom episode. Um, it's been, I think, like almost over two months since our last one. So, a lot of stuff has gone down.

[00:00:40]Um, we have a lot of different, um, things to talk about that have happened in the BL fandom over the last couple of months. We both have a lot of notes on some of these things, so I feel like we should just get right into it. I I I mean I have stuff back towards like the beginning of April. So, we've got quite a few things to like catch up on here.

[00:00:59]>> Yeah. I feel like there are maybe like two or three really big things that have happened that would be like the elephant in the room if we didn't talk about it.

[00:01:08]And then we have like some smaller things that are kind of silly, kind of fun. So, I guess we'll leave the fun stuff for last.

[00:01:15]>> What do we want to start with?

[00:01:17]>> I mean, I can start. So, this is going to be all about Dunk's infamous at this point White Rabbit performance. So, basically, here's what happened. Jung and Dunk held their Eyes on You Fan Con on April 6th, and one of Dung's performances ended up receiving a lot of backlash. Like, I'm talking a lot. He covered the song White Rabbit by Dawu, and people were like, "This is misogynistic and also queer eraser."

[00:01:47]It's a lot. Um, let's tackle the misogyny allegation first. So, there were two parts in particular that people were criticizing from the performance.

[00:01:57]The first one was Dunc lying across the dancers while they were kneeling. And the second was him lifting one of the dancers and her kind of grinding on him.

[00:02:07]And an important note that I feel like I have to put in here is that neither of these moves are in the original choreography. They created an entirely new dance for this song. Now, before I watched the performance myself, I was like, "Lord, it must be bad because it seemed like the entire BL community was dragging Dunk." So, when I finally watched the full performance, I came out of it a little confused because it felt very tame to me. Mind you, I come from a world where like my friends are strippers and like my favorite artists are on stage shaking ass and rapping about having sex. So like I don't tend to judge a lot of things that other people might consider degrading. But again, that's just like my opinion based on the environment that I'm in. But most of the criticism I saw about the part where Dunc actually lifted the dancer was directed at the dancer in a [ __ ] shaming way, which I'm not okay with.

[00:03:09]Most people um weren't very concerned with that part. There were some people who just thought the whole thing was really vulgar, which I'm I'm like, "Oh my gosh, am I the problem?" Like I that feels very prudish to me. But a lot of the criticism wasn't towards that. But the criticism I did see towards that was towards the dancer being like, "This is like disgusting for her to do this." But when it comes to the dancers kneeling, I do think it was kind of a bad look considering GMM TV's history of having their actresses kneel in front of all the BL actors.

[00:03:42]>> I didn't even think about that, but that was a big thing that happened not that long ago that a lot of people were understandably very upset by.

[00:03:52]>> Mhm. That's the comparison that a lot of people were making, I think, just because that's where a lot of people's minds went, understandably. And so, because GMM TV already kind of has this track record of misogyny or just like not treating their female talent in the same way as their male talent, it just it makes sense to me that people jumped to the conclusion of misogyny when they saw Dunk lying across these women. But like genuinely my thought process was these are professional dancers who worked with a choreographer who is not dunk. They agreed to do this job out of their own free will and their presence on that stage is consensual. And I just like really hate it when people treat women like they have no agency or like they can't make their own decisions. And I personally think it's infantilizing to speak about these dancers like they were just props in Dunk's performance because I'm sure no one at the rehearsals was thinking of them in that way. So it's like why are you? It's just like they're not helpless. They're not some helpless sheep. And I feel like you also can't assume that someone's being exploited based on one performance because a big narrative was that they were probably being exploited because they like needed the job and like Dunk's team was taking advantage of that. I actually think that's misogynistic. I think it is [ __ ] up to assume that these dancers are like hurting for money and Dunk's team took advantage of that. Like that to me is actual misogyny. to assume that like women can't stand on their own financially or to assume that they're going to quote degrade themselves for a check. I just feel like the whole point of feminism is women having the freedom of choice and that includes the freedom to maybe express their sexuality, whether it's in their private lives or on public display. And I feel like just because they're acting quote submissive or provocative towards a man in a choreographed performance, I don't really think it's misogynistic. I feel like it would be more misogynistic if they didn't have a choice in the matter or if it was like some unplanned incident offstage like the whole thing with the actresses having to kneel in the photo in front of all the male actors. But like, I promise you, I promise you guys I'm not over here defending a man because I can confidently say that I lost respect for Dunk after seeing his response to this situation.

[00:06:20]>> Yeah, the response was something else as well.

[00:06:22]>> It was pretty bad. He basically posted a meme of himself from the performance and it said like the text said absolute cinema, which first of all is an extremely outdated and corny meme template that needs to die. But I also just thought it was a really disrespectful response to accusations of misogyny. Honestly, if he was going to address it in any way, I feel like they should have released a statement just like emphasizing that, you know, like this is a choreograph thing, everything's planned, everything's consensual, something like that. like even if he doesn't want to apologize because he doesn't, I feel like even just having like I guess a reassurance that hey like the dancers are being treated fairly and this is like choreography that we agreed to. I feel like something like that would have gone a long way. The attitude, it's the attitude that I felt is really insulting specifically to his female fans. I feel like there is a difference between actors rightfully clapping back at people who are just being haters for no reason and like actors genuinely dismissing their fans concerns. And I feel like this is an instance where he genuinely dismissed something that is very serious.

[00:07:39]>> That's exactly the literally the word I had in my brain is that it felt dismissive of concerns that are something that is very legitimate for female fans to be concerned about. Um because you know we know male celebrities have a track record of not like being the greatest people. So I think you know whether or not he was in the wrong for the performance, whether or not the performance was misogynistic, I think a lot of people are going to have different feelings about that on different ends of whatever spectrum they're looking at it from. But the response definitely felt very dismissive of legitimate concerns whether or not they were necessary concerns, which is, you know, something that I think is up for interpretation. So that's I definitely felt the same way.

[00:08:23]>> I just feel like when people are accusing you of essentially mistreating your staff, whether it's dancers or the like, you probably shouldn't use it as an opportunity to dunk on the haters.

[00:08:37]And I mean, no pun intended with that. I just realized that there's a pun there, [laughter] but it really is not the opportunity to do like a haha, gotcha moment. I I just was really disappointed in his response. The more I thought about it, too, part of me does think that the performance wouldn't have blown up if Dunc was an amazing dancer and singer. Because before this even happened, the conversation about BL actors singing and dancing was going strong again because Force and Joss had their performance that was already going viral for being cringe. You know, like the magic mic style performance. So, I think a lot of the sentiment from that honestly spilled over into Dunks thing.

[00:09:23]Like that's it really all started with the Jos and Forest performance. Like it wasn't even about Dunk's performance in the beginning. There was a lot of conversation about those two performances happening in the same sphere. Um, and I think this also ties into the whole like erasure of a queer song or queer performance because a lot of people feel like these BL actors like use these concerts to get on stage and be as heterosexual as possible is the best way to put it. I guess when you know their job is to kiss a man and then you know they're getting on stage and like doing a magic mic thing or which you know magic mic is could go any which direction you know a lot of people are into magic mic as s performances. Um but yeah I think that also kind of ties into the conversation about like these men want to get on stage and be seen as like the most macho heterosexual performing men they can be. Um, and a lot of people feel like I don't know, it's like to counteract like what they do for their day job type thing. So, yeah, I think that that's kind of ties those performances together for sure.

[00:10:26]>> And just like the queer eraser allegation of it all. To give some background on it, Daw's song White Rabbit is kind of universally known as a by anthem because in the music video, um, Dawu has both a male and female love interest. And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Daou like openly queer?

[00:10:47]>> Yeah, I believe so. And even like in his live performances, he also kind of alternates between like having male and female like love interests and dancers in the in the show. So, I think that also kind of like with Dung changing the choreography to be something so completely different and then like erasing the uh explicitly like queer aspect of having like male partners involved in Dao's performance as well.

[00:11:12]Um I think people were already like why would you why would you butcher White Rabbit this way? Why would you make it so straight type of situation. So yeah, >> people looked at Dunk doing that as straight washing >> for lack of a better term. It's exactly like you said, like he's going up there and doing like a heterero thirst trap version of a song that has queer artistry behind it. So this criticism I do kind of get not even just like in relation to dunk but the whole like system here that we're talking about because I think of even something as small as whenever a straight artist like takes a queer song and changes the pronouns to make it not gay. Even something small like that it feels like appropriation almost.

[00:12:00]>> Yeah.

[00:12:00]>> I don't know if there's like a better term for that. I just think of like all the queer things, specifically the queer POC things that have kind of been co-opted by people outside of the community and then they make a profit off of it and obviously that isn't really fair.

[00:12:17]>> Yeah. I also think we I've seen this discussion a lot which might have stemmed from the dunk performance but I think it's also all kind of existing in the same sphere is like a lot of people what's the term I want to use feel I guess frustrated is the best word that these a lot of the BL actors like release music like Gemini fourth pawn pooin um a lot of them are part of boy groups a lot of them release solo stuff and people feel like I guess frustrated that every time they release a project like it's always a female love interest in the show. Um, and so I think there's like this a lot I mean I think most people see the frustration with like Riser Music and GMM TV and whoever is doing the casting for these music videos, but and we'll get into this with another topic we have to talk about. Um, a lot of people just feel like it lends to GMM TV othering the queerness of like their BL's and their GL's and the people who are playing in those roles. And so I think there's like this really overarching discussion about how this company views queer media that a lot of people have been having more and more often lately. These performances where like their their BL actors kind of get on stage or these songs where their BL actors kind of get on stage and perform these super heterosexual things, you know, is already something that a lot of fans find frustrating. But then like you add the element of, you know, Dunk using a song from a queer artist that had a very queer dance performance and um storyline in the original music video and the performances from the original artist and it just kind of takes it to another level.

[00:13:55]>> A big point of criticism I saw was the fact that this was Dunk's performance at Jung Dunk's fan con. You know, like you see it's a BL fan con. for their ship, but he's doing this heteronormative performance. I guess the only thing that I saw before he's not the only one, but yeah, >> not by a long shot. You know, this whole situation actually reminds me a lot of the controversy that happened with Sabrina Carpenter's album cover >> because she was also kneeling in that one in front of like a guy. I don't know. Like I I don't see the misogyny in some of these things, but I also think it's important to constantly be questioning it.

[00:14:35]>> Yeah.

[00:14:36]>> So like I respect that people were questioning certain things in the performance. And I like that it became a bigger discussion about like I guess like the queer baiting of it all.

[00:14:47]>> To your point about like having these discussions. Yeah. Like obviously I understand like where the concern comes from because so often misogyny is at play. To be constantly questioning like the underlying like intentions I guess were for things is important and you know I think we should always be having these discussions and you know going back and forth and analyzing things from different perspective when it comes to performance in media. So, like I totally understand why fans are concerned and why some of them felt upset by the performance, but yeah, I think the response is definitely where it it made it all worse. Like something that maybe could have been like, okay, you know, choosing to respond in the way that it was responded to definitely adds another level to things for sure. If we want to keep going on the train of discussing uh queer media and queer performances within GMM TV, one of the big discussions as of late has been GMM TV's latest bromance series, or as they call them, friendship series, Woo, starring Sky and Nani. Um, so the series is now, as of recording, currently on air. And as we've discussed before, people have a lot of mixed feelings about GMM TV doing bromance series. And the way that they promote uh the bromance series and the actors involved specifically to a lot of people, it feels like GMM TV is trying to like profit off of their queer series and BL shipping culture and be the BL genre without really going there. um in terms of the way that like Sky and Nani are promoted um the events that they do together and things like that while still always keeping this line of separation of this is this is a friendship pairing which is a term that I I don't know friendship pairing like okay just call them friends you know there's also a lot of discussion especially now that Woo is airing and a lot of people have watched the first episodes we have talked a lot about the declining quality inconsistent quality that GMM TV's BL and GL series have had in the last couple of years especially and people have noticed a big discrepancy in the budget and production value that GMM TV give to shows like Woo or Scarlet Heart Thailand shows that are noticeably not queer versus what they give to their queer media. Woo kind of or GMM TV's promotion of Woo kind of like playing off of promotional tactics used for their queer series kind of that adds another level of frustration to things when they think about the discrepancies between how those different types of media are treated.

[00:17:26]And where this really kind of I guess went to another level is that on April 24th, Gaga Oola announced that they would be airing Woo or hosting Woo on their platform in four regions which were the United States, the United Kingdom, Germany, and France. And this got immediate backlash. like I'm talking within minutes there were hundreds of replies and quote tweets under their posts uh talking about this acquisition of the rights to the show and this is because Gaga Oola has always promoted and prided itself on being a safe haven for explicitly queer stories. Um in their taglines on their socials they call themselves a global hub for LGBTQ plus BL and GL content. So, a lot of people felt like them taking this series that was explicitly not queer, but uses a lot of that likes to ride the line, I guess, on queerness in terms of being a bromance series and putting it on their platform that they've always promoted as a queer content platform felt like compromising their platform's values or selling out and kind of trying to capitalize on the hype that Sky and Nani and Woo have by hosting it on their platform. Um, and there's also the additional element that they had initially listed it under like the BL tag, the gay tag, the romance tag, and when people pointed out that like the series was explicitly not those things, um, they kind of like removed those tags, but people felt like that was like them trying to force the show to fit in their catalog. um when it's clearly not something that they already have existing tags for or category a category they're like there's no bromance category or friendship category on Gaga Ooh la la. So a lot of people felt like they were trying to kind of pigeon hole the series and make it work for the platform which kind of furthered the fact that people felt like it's not a show that should be on their platform to begin with. There were a lot of fans obviously very upset by this on both sides. A lot of people were upset that, you know, Gaga Allah doing this brought Sky and Nani a lot of unnecessary hate um on the other side of things. And by April 30th, Gaga had posted another statement that they heard and understood all the backlash and would no longer be hosting Woo on their platform. Um and these responses to this argument kind of varied. A lot of people were glad they listened to the criticism and appreciated them kind of standing by the side of their queer fans where other people felt like they were just buckling into unnecessary pressure from viewers and that they should have stood stood their ground if they were going to announce that they were going to host the series. They shouldn't take it back just a couple days later because of you know online responses. Um, and then you know a lot of people were mentioning how the whole thing just brought unnecessary hate to Sky and Nani. Um, and kind of involved them in something that Gaga Lash should have just stayed off of stayed out of from the beginning. And as of now, it seems that I has picked up Woo in most of the regions where Gaga was set to host it. Um, I know I checked it's available on I here in the US. Um, but I remember when it premiered some fans in these regions were still saying they couldn't find it anywhere. But I think the whole thing just kind of ignited or reignited this discussion that has come up routinely since High School Friendnemy started and Sky and Nani kind of as a friendship duo skyrocketed into fame and GMM TV started capitalizing on that. uh explicitly queer platform like Gaga Oola Laala deciding to host the show initially just kind of fed into or reinforced I guess these ideas that a lot of fans have that bromance is trying to capitalize on queerness without fully being queer if that makes sense. It's an ongoing discussion. We've mentioned it on the channel a couple of times, but this one now that Woo is finally on air um it's really it's really back in the the circle again. And I even now I'm still seeing a lot of discussion about woo and bromance and the purpose and all of that stuff. So yeah. Yeah. It's interesting how everyone is referring to it as a bromance series when that's not like an official term that's being used by GMM TV or by Sky Nani. And obviously like the reason for that is because of this friendship ship thing that Sky and Nani have going on where they're being marketed exactly how they do a be pairing but they're not a be all pairing. It's just very interesting. And I also think of it from the angle of like do we even need bromance anymore?

[00:22:02]Think of places that actually need to have bromance in order to get queer media out like China. There are so many Chinese BLs that have just completely disappeared, haven't been able to air, have been banned because they're gay.

[00:22:17]And then the companies in China, the production companies are trying to get around that by using bromance. A lot of the commentary I've seen as well is that like bromance as we know it or how or how fans of BL and queer media often use it was kind of for series that were uh censored out of necessity uh based on like their country of origin and things like that. Um and so you know I think the term bromance like you said GMM TV is not using this term that like I said they use the term friendship series.

[00:22:50]Like I said you could just call it a series.

[00:22:52]>> Yeah. I have not watched the first episode of Woo. I don't really plan to watch the show. I don't know um if this is something that is existing in Woo as well. Um but I know with High School Friendnemy and the original Korean drama that the show was based on. The characters have a lot of homoerotic tension going on. And so I think there was a lot of like these characters are are like so close so like why didn't they just go there? Um, and so like that's I think that's kind of why the term bromance was kind of born for High School Frenemmy specifically. And then of course with the way GMM TV markets Sky and Nani, that kind of ties into it as well of like they're just kind of really walking that line of like using a lot of the same tactics but not quite going the BL route. So yeah, I don't know. It's an interesting discussion.

[00:23:41]And you said the term bromance for sure.

[00:23:43]>> Yeah. I think because we just like use the term bromance colloquially. Yeah.

[00:23:54]>> Just two bros that people forget that bromance is its own genre. And it is that like genre that China, for example, uses to kind of bypass all the anti-gay sensors. So, that distinction should definitely be made.

[00:24:09]>> I was going to say I do think Gaga choosing to host the show was a weird choice on their part. I don't really understand that decision from their end as like like they say in their statement like they are specifically for LGBTQ plus series and so I think I don't know it just felt like maybe it wasn't the right platform and a lot of people were pointing out that like they had to you know they would have been actively bidding to host the show on that platform and so I think a lot of people were calling into question why they would want to be bidding on this show.

[00:24:42]It's not like GMM TV reached out to them and was like, "Please host Woo, like we need you to host this show." So, and it's also because of the way they promote their platform as well. You know, a lot of platforms host BL's and GL's and LGBTQ content, but the way Gaga post promotes their platform as like they said, a global haven for this type of content just really, I think, adds another layer to it that made it feel like an odd choice for them to choose to host an explicitly non-queeer series.

[00:25:10]And I'm not even talking romance because you can have queer stories that are not romantic in nature. Um, but this, as far as I knew, Woo is not, the characters are not queer. They're not, you know, talking about queer issues. You know, there's not elements of queerness within the story. So, you know, that kind of just was a weird layer or additional layer that kind of muddied the whole discussion. I think, >> you know, I saw some people, and this was like a very common comment that I was seeing. They said that if you read the Woo novel, you'll understand why it's on Gaga Oola Laala because I guess there is tension between them in the novel. But then my thought process with that is >> was one of the terms I saw with the there's an essence of something between them.

[00:25:53]>> My thought process for that then is well it's a BL then >> then they're not a friendship pair.

[00:25:59]>> Yeah. It's like you either want it to be a BL or you want it to be a friendship series like this. It's the walking the line thing that I think makes it frustrating because they want certain elements that come with BL and certain rights that you know rights that are exclusive is not the right term but certain things that are attached to BL and GL in that genre while also wanting to separate it for whatever reason they don't want it to be attached to the BL term. Nothing against Sky and Nani. Like I know people really like their shows and High School Friendnemy was really wellliked and people seem to like the first episode of Woo. I think only one episode of Woo has aired. But I think it really comes down to the marketing of everything that always just sits a bit weird for me and that I mean is more on GMM TV than anything else for the for the most part. You know, >> trying to segue into the next thing that I have. No, [laughter] >> segways are hard.

[00:26:56]>> I guess this is lighter news. Um, it's a series announcement news. The Painter of the Night, Manoa, is getting a liveaction adaptation. It's set to premiere on May 28th, and it will be a short vertical drama. It will be on the Leen Snack app, which I didn't know was a thing until I was looking into this.

[00:27:17]It's so funny because I just mentioned lessen not paying their artists in our novel adaptations episode. So that's right. Do what you will with that information going forward. Vertical dramas are very very in right now. So of course they're taking advantage of that medium. Have you read Painter of the Night? Because I actually have read some. I have not read it, but I know how I don't know if infamous is the right term, but I know enough about it to know what Painter of the Night is all about.

[00:27:47][laughter] >> I've read some of it. I can't remember up to what I read, but all I can really remember is there being so much noncon in it, like so much. The whole thing basically from what I can recall. Like this is a toxic Yowi if I've ever seen one. And that is what it's infamous for being like toxic, controversial, all of that. Even though it is an extremely popular manwa, I think I never expected them to try to do a liveaction adaptation because it is so wild. And I'm like, are they going to be able to even show half the things that happen in the mana? Yeah, I think that's always like I feel like there's been so many talks over the years about Painter of the Night getting an adaptation and it's always been like, oh, it'll never happen because that mana is just like has such a reputation and like Korea, you know, Korea has a lot of 19 plus manga and mana, but producing a live action of them is something completely different, especially when Korea struggles to fund BL as it is. Um, so I that totally explains why they're going the vertical route because they're so cheap to create. Um, and doing it through Lesin probably adds another layer um of being able to fund that and be able to find a platform to put that on specifically.

[00:29:01]There's been rumors of Painter of the Night getting an adaptation. I never thought I would actually see the day that it happened, but yeah, like being vertical format feels like it's the only way that show would have or that Manuela would have been able to be adapted into a live action.

[00:29:15]>> And Lesin Comics actually posted a trailer on May 5th and I have to say >> it did kind of peique my interest. I'm not going to lie. Like it looked intense but definitely nowhere near as intense as the original. A lot of people in the comments were wishing that it was an animated adaptation instead. A lot of people were upset that it was a vertical drama, which I understand because I really can't get into the vertical dramas.

[00:29:41]>> I struggle with them. But yeah, I I think the trailer did peique my interest a little bit. If only to see how it's all going to come together. Like I'm really curious about how they're going to make it work and what it's going to end up looking like.

[00:29:53]>> The thing with the vertical dramas is that like you usually have to pay per part.

[00:29:58]>> Mhm. And it just it's a lot of money. We don't have that type of money right now.

[00:30:02][laughter] So, >> no, >> there's that aspect of it. I did see a really funny comment someone made that was like, "Why did they cast two twinks?" Because people have this very like I guess macho image of the noblemen. So, they were like, "Oh, they casted two twinks." That's neither here nor there. I just thought it was funny.

[00:30:21][laughter] But, yeah, I'm genuinely curious how this adaptation is going to turn out.

[00:30:26]And like I said, Painter of the Night is a super popular and iconic monta. So people really love it. And I think whether people are excited or against the idea of it getting a liveaction adaptation, I think they're still going to tune in.

[00:30:41]>> Yeah, it'll be interesting to see. I'm going to be curious to see what the reaction is when it is finally on air.

[00:30:47]Um, and how the longtime fans are reacting to it. So, >> something that we never thought would happen, but here it is happening.

[00:30:55][laughter] I do have a segue from that because speaking of something that we never thought would happen but is happening.

[00:31:03]Wu Bakery lives. [laughter] >> Hey, made it out of the dungeon. Oh my god, this show has had such an up and down timeline over the last couple of months. Cursed is a way to put it because we talked about it in our last catching up with the BL fandom that we did at the end of February. And at that time the new company had like just I guess acquired the rights and started hinting at the show releasing and um Studio on Saturn had kind of released a statement that they did not really know what was going on but they were looking into it from a legal perspective because they had not been made aware of things.

[00:31:40]Um, and since then so much stuff has gone back and forth between this Korean production company and company and studio on Saturn that I literally just had to take it down date by date by date when things were happening. So, it's a long timeline, so I'm just going to get into it. So, starting in like late March and early April, fans started noticing that a Korean streaming site had Wu Bakery listed as an upcoming release. It was originally slated for, I think, April 10th. And at that time there was a lot of speculation about what this meant for the release of the show because Studio on Saturn had released that statement earlier. So people were wondering if they'd come to an agreement, if it was only going to be released in South Korea, etc. And then on the April 10th came and on April 10th when it was initially meant to air the release date got pushed back another 9 days to April 19th and Gaga Oola stepped up at the time to announce that they would be the international distributor of the show. Um so fans kind of felt weird um at this point that like the show was planned to be on air and Studio on Saturn had not really moved at all since that statement back in February.

[00:32:49]They were not promoting the show. They were not mentioning the show. Jeff was not mentioning it anywhere, but you know, it was seemingly happening. Some of the supporting actors were talking about being excited for it to air on like Twitter and things like that. On April 17th, Studio on Saturn released a statement stating that they had not given permission for the show to be distributed or for Jeff uh to be used in any of the promotional materials that were coming out. Um they state that they were never provided clarity on the release plan or promotions for the show.

[00:33:20]And they also stated that Jeff and the artists involved were never paid for the show. They stated that their lawyers had been trying to contact this Korean studio since March 30 31st when the show first got an air date to no avail and as such they could not support the release of this project. Um a lot of people really sided with Studio on Saturday in this because you know this is Jeff's studio. Most of the people that are watching Muju Bakery are fans of Jeff and fans of Barcode. So, a lot of people were kind of on the side of the studio representing this artist and their statement on it. April 18th, the next day, Habitus company responded to the studio on Saturn statement and addressed the misunderstanding. So, they claimed that the artist appearance fees had been paid and processed through the relevant agencies and that they had proof and remittance to show for all of these payment records. They also had stated that they had obtained the rights to Wuju Bakery through like a legitimate process and that they had been in communication with Studio on Saturn. So basically completely counteracting everything that Studio on Saturn had just said the day before. And on the day that this aired, uh they said they also said that they were going to like keep working to get the series out to the fans. And on the 18th when they released the statement, Gaga also posted something announcing that the airing of the show would be postponed indefinitely. The next day, like this is really a day-by-day timeline. April 19th, a studio on Staten released a counter statement confirming that the artist had not been paid for the show and that arrangements that any third parties involved are stating about it do not counteract this. And they also reaffirmed that they have attempted to reach an agreement with the new company regarding the release and the promotion.

[00:35:06]After their initial statement back in February, but had not been able to release to reach an agreement and that their current status was under legal review. So that was April 19th. After that, people kind of said, "Okay, well, I guess it's time to give up on the show again." Because things kind of went a little bit radio silent after that and Gaga La's announcement that things would be postponed indefinitely. There were a couple of supporting actors. Um, some of the supporting Korean actors were still kind of active on Twitter mentioning like the show getting released and being excited to see it soon and that they were hoping that it would still be on air. Um, but I think viewers were pretty doubtful at that point. But then comes May 5th. Studio on Saturn announced that on May 2nd, the companies reached an agreement regarding the series that included compensation and an agreed framework for release and promotion of the series. They said that it was an appropriate outcome for their actor and that they had only been acting thus far in order to protect the artist rights.

[00:36:03]On the same day, Gaga announced that Wuju Bakery would begin airing on the platform again starting May 7th and that they would air the entire show, two episodes a day from May 7th to May 10th.

[00:36:15]So, as of the date we're recording this, the show is currently on air from what I've seen. The episodes are being posted on Gaga La. I surprisingly like for all the discussion that has gone on around the show. I have not really seen anyone talking about it now that it's on air. I haven't seen anyone's reaction to the first couple of episodes or anything, maybe I'm just not looking in the right places, but it feels like after all of this like legal back and forth and all these statements back and forth, now that the show is kind of here, it's almost just kind of like, okay, well, here it is. and like the the hype I guess is not there the same way it was when everything was so up in the air around it. But maybe I'm just not in the right spaces where you know the fans of the show are discussing it. So that's the timeline. Wuju Bakery after almost 3 years has finally been aired on a platform where fans can watch it.

[00:37:11]Hopefully everyone who's been waiting for it for so long is enjoying the show.

[00:37:15]It felt like such a hopeless cause. Like I think people largely gave up on the show until earlier this year. And then in the 5 months or not even 5 months, like 3 and a half, 4 months since this company originally started posting about it, so much has happened that it's kind of wild that like it all just kind of ended and the show is finally on air now. So, >> okay. So, if Wuju Bakery can actually happen, then so can our Ram King spin-off. Every show that I've been secretly rooting for now has a chance. I feel you linger in the air. Season two.

[00:37:46]>> Season two.

[00:37:47]>> That's the next one for me. One thing I think has been so interesting in this whole discussion and maybe it's just like the different caliber of the companies. GMM TV has not commented on this at all since Barcode is, you know, now one of their artists. And I guess maybe they're just trying to put all of his past projects in the past and let it be that way. I think it's been very interesting that like and I know Studio on Saturn had the rights for the show like after everything with the original company fell through. So maybe that's why they're the main commenters on everything.

[00:38:19]>> Honestly, Wuju Bakery just is so insignificant to them that they're like, "We don't care."

[00:38:25]>> It really is such a full circle moment, but I was like, "We have to since we mentioned it earlier this year in one of our episodes, I feel like we have to come back for the conclusion of it all."

[00:38:35]It feels like there was so much drama for like the most antilimactic outcome.

[00:38:41]Yeah. The day-to-day updates though also remind me of the Smart Boom situation.

[00:38:46]My gosh, it was so hard to find the dayto-day updates and there were updates every single day. In legal conflicts like this, it's always them going back and forth with the same information over and over again where they're like, "Actually, this is true." And then the other company's like, "Actually, that's not true. This is true.

[00:39:06]>> It's not true." Yeah, that's literally what it was. Back and forth. And then Gaga is at the scene of the crime again.

[00:39:13]Just like, [laughter] "We're airing it.

[00:39:15]Never mind. Yes, we're airing it again."

[00:39:18]Well, we can talk about some mascots.

[00:39:21]Yeah. Yeah. Let's get into it. So, Dumundy has officially released their own set of mascots into the world. They already had some. Z and Nu were the first ones to get a mascot. Their mascot is named Nongzan or Kaien. I see it going by both names. And also after the success of Kamjira, Kang Nping and Ton and First One got their own mascots. So Kang Nping's mascot is OA and Ton First One's mascot is Rainey. But now we have seven more to add to the list. So bear with me because this is about to be a lot of names. So, first we have Hardy, who is Maxnat's mascot. Then we have Alenor, who is Tutorium's mascot. We have Juke Crew, who is NetJ's mascot. We have Mr. Toki, who is Thomas Kong's mascot. We have Me Prow, who is Oo Saves mascot. We have T- Milk, who is Latte Kim's mascot. And then we have Boke Bear, who is TT Por's mascot. So, we're going full on GMM TV here. And I don't even like mean to make a comparison like because, you know, a lot of people were saying, "Oh, Demundy um copied GMM TV."

[00:40:40]I don't even think of it like that. I think that's this is just how things are and you know, we uh will be recording a whole episode about the culture of mascots in Thailand and how they come up with them.

[00:40:52]>> I'm sure we'll talk about it more in our episode, but if you really look at it, it all comes back to Butter Bear.

[00:40:58]Butterbear is what started everything and I think these companies are just following on what is now a very lucrative market. Like these mascots get their own events. Like they are now a market of their own and so it only made sense for Dumundy to kind of get into that side of the market as well with the number of artists they have and how popular so many of their artists are. So yeah, >> I did want to mention the lore behind the birth of the Demundi mascots, though, because I think it's really funny. Apparently, they're all mutants who were created when a meteor struck Earth. But you know what's funnier?

[00:41:36]Zeu's mascot has a different origin story than the rest because theirs came first. So, theirs was created from, and I quote, their parents' hugs and kisses and they were hatched from an egg. And it just it's really funny the difference in the origin stories remind me of I don't know if you've seen it, but there's a clip of Kang and director Pcla on Instagram live and someone asks them who is single in Dumundy. Kang replies, "Everyone is single and lonely except Ze and Noo-Noo." It's so funny because like D money can give them an origin story, but the fans, if you ask the fans, someone birthed those mascots themselves, you know, like they have all these stories about who was birthing who. Like, oh my god, I saw so many discussions about how Thomas was in LA when Mr. Toki was born [laughter] and he he left Kong alone after he just gave birth. It's like, >> yeah, the >> he's an absentee father. [laughter] >> That's so funny. No, I love um I just love like everyone's reactions to the mascots. I think Nat's story about their mascot was that Max didn't want a kid because he wanted Nat to himself. So, their mascot is like the unwanted kid.

[00:42:50]And then there's a similar thing with Z and Noo-Noo where like people say that Noo-Noo didn't want the kid, but now he's there.

[00:42:56]>> [laughter] >> I also love the idea of I guess the concept of the people themselves birthing the mascot because I think back to that all of those like clips and photos of Ning where it looked like he was pregnant. [laughter] Oh my god, the emper implications of the mascots are so funny. [laughter] The other lore that I love is how um TT and Por say their mascot is their younger brother because they're they're not ready to be parents yet. like they still want to be the kids. There's so much lore there and like you said, we're going to get into it with a whole episode that really dives into it, but I just think it's so fun to like follow along with with all the stories and all of the fans being like, "I'm a grandparent now." That's all I have to say about the new Dundee mascots. I've been seeing them wreaking havoc at all the events, especially the ones where everyone's at, like the recent concert.

[00:43:51]They're just all these people running around [laughter] >> in the costumes. like this chaos.

[00:43:57]>> My favorite is when [laughter] this happens with the GMM TV mascots too, like when they get deflated and people ask act like it is like this great injury and they're like rushing to get like the mascot like to first aid and stuff like that. So to like refill its air or like patch up the hole and stuff like that like it's just so funny. I guess that was the positive DMD discussion of the day. Um, I kind of have this sad DMD discussion of the day, which is that Jimmy and M decided to end their partnership on April 3rd. Jimmy and M were Ramile and Pay Thai in The Next Prince and were set to be part of the main ensemble for Magic Lover with uh, King Numping and Thomas Kong, which was in pre-production. I think is set to to film later this year from what I've known. Um, but on April 3rd, they announced that they would be ending their partnership, citing professional directions and future opportunities. And while it's not uncommon for shifts to dissolve, I mean, this was also right around the time that Winnie and Satang dissolved. So, there was just a lot of stuff going on earlier this year, the fan response and kind of the timeline that has happened since with Jimmy and M has been very interesting. with Jimmy and M. Some fans felt like they'd seen it coming based on their interactions or lack thereof at events around that time, specifically like DMD World Japan. Um, when they were all in Japan for DMD World, there was a lot of just like a lot of social media clips and stuff were coming out during that time of a lot of the pairings just being very pairing and Jimmy and Om were noticeably not posting a lot of content during that time. Um, while other fans were pretty surprised that they that this happened because it's still been holding couple events where things seemed like they were okay, I think Jimmy M is an interesting case because a lot of people have felt like there was more to Jimmy M than just a professional partnership for some time now. Um, and so I think a lot of people are I can't say a lot of people. I think there are a sect of fans who believe this was actually a romantic breakup that led to a ship dissolving versus it just being a professional thing. Um, and there have been a number of different moments that have kind of fed into that um, belief since the announcement was made. So, a big one is that M very famously has a public Spotify playlist that he created for him and Jimmy. Um, and people know this because a photo of Jimmy is the picture, like the what's it called? The cover of the Spotify playlist. Um, and he's added a lot of different songs over the course of their partnership that have felt really tied to different periods in their partnership. And in the days after the announcement was made, he was adding a lot of sad songs to the playlist, such as I don't know if it's Loss of My Life, if that's the one by Taylor Swift. I know the lyric mentions being loss of my life. Um, and just a lot of like sadder tie songs, like breakup songs, you know, people noticed that those were added like right in the 24 hours or so after the announcement was made. So, people kind of saw that as something. Um, M also tweeted an Ariana Grande lyric on April 26th, the thank you next lyric, which people also took as him to be potentially tweeting about Jimmy um, in a breakup in that sense. But I think demand 3 or DMD Land 3 had a lot of different moments that kind of really brought the discussion back up again. So the big one is that for Jimmy's solo performance, he performed about you by the 1975 and was crying during his performance. Um the song's lyrics talk a lot about missing someone, about not forgetting someone, about finding your way back to them. You know, people were thinking that was a very pointed thing.

[00:47:44]Um Jimmy later posted on Twitter that it's a song that's been very important to him for a long time and a song that he's always dreamed about performing. So he was very excited to get that opportunity after DMD Land added this song to his Spotify playlist for him and Jimmy. So you know that that was a very pointed move on M's part. And then on day two of DMD Land, there was a moment where Jimmy and M walked past each other and nodded at each other while they were having a moment where they were all passing out little fan benefits. And I think I saw about 50 different angles of this clip of them nodding at each other while they walked past each other. A lot of fans have been clipping it, analyzing their expressions as much as they could, kind of trying to see what this little nod could mean, trying to understand, you know, their expressions in that moment. So, you know, that one kind of went kind of went viral on DMD Twitter in general, I would say. Not even just like with the Jimmy M fandom. The other thing that happened at DMD Land is that M announced that he would be continuing his role in Magic Lover. This kind of lends to the fact that he might have a new partner in that show if Jimmy is not going to continue with it. Um, and that has had a lot of different feelings. So, I think fans are kind of waiting to see what might happen there, what that means. Um, I even saw a post today that I think M had um his like birthday event with his fans and he mentioned something about how like uh the thing you have been wishing for will come true um and fans are like oh do you know what we've been wishing for and he kind of had like this very knowing look about yes I know and a lot of fans are like well the thing we're wishing for is Jimmy to come back together so you know maybe maybe that's a sign a lot of people think/h hope that they will eventually you know there seems to be lingering feelings there so a lot of people are hoping hoping that they'll eventually come back together in some capacity. But I just think it's a very interesting like example of like how the lines bleed um in ter between professional and personal. Um and I think you know Jimmy and M have done a lot of things that have kind of like led fans to speculate about certain things. M has always been a very like he's putting his feelings about things online and you know fans have always kind of he's not shy about how he feels about things. He's very open with his fans. He shares a lot of things. It's not a new thing for him to kind of be posting about his feelings through music and tweets and things like that, but there's definitely a lot of material, I guess, for fans to analyze in the past couple of weeks in terms of what this might mean. So, I have to be honest, I have fallen for the Jimmy M delusion. Like, I really think that they might have been together because there's even more lore than we would be able to get into right now. Like I remember they had some disagreements so they weren't talking and then M went and made Jimmy a bouquet and handd delivered it to him.

[00:50:35]That was a whole thing where they were like, "Oh, they made up now." And I just think in general M likes to breadcrumb information. Wouldn't it be funny though if Jimmy and M were like still together in Magic Lovers, but maybe like not a ship anymore, but they're just acting in the show together? I know Magic Lover is there was a lot of like hinting from option that like the pilot trailer was going to be filming soon or that people could expect a pilot trailer soon. Um so I'm not sure if that's been delayed now if they do have to make casting changes.

[00:51:08]Um I know DMD has artists in their newer generation who are not paired with someone. So a lot of people have been speculating about if it's not Jimmy who um could be paired with. So yeah, I guess it's it's very much just like a we'll have to wait and see what happens type thing, I think.

[00:51:23]>> Oh, I have something else to say about this. M is not going to be paired with James. If James wants to go back to he's going to be with Pooh. He already established that. But at this point in time, he doesn't want to be in a pair.

[00:51:37]>> Let's put that to rest.

[00:51:39]>> I don't know. I don't know as much about the Gen 5. I think that's what generation they're on now um of DMD actors, but there was a lot of people from their most recent season of DMD Land that did not end the show with a partner. So, could be there. There are people from Gen One who, you know, have kind of never had a partner. Hell, maybe he'll be paired with Poppy or something like that. You never really know, [laughter] >> bro. Stop it. I It's really hard to even determine who could replace Jimmy and Magic Lover. Like I have no idea. I don't know what any of the new gen's ages are other than Porsche.

[00:52:18]>> I don't know. That might not. [laughter] >> Yeah, Porsche is the only one I know because I've seen him in City of Stars previously when he was with Star Hunter.

[00:52:27]We'll see. It would be so funny if they came back and were like, "Actually, Jimmy and M are resuming their work as a partner um partnership, so don't even worry about everything else." If they have if they can't delay things, then how would they find someone else and be able to do like I guess prepare them for the show so readily? I I feel like Jimmy has to stay. [laughter] >> I feel like Jimmy has to stay and they got to do it.

[00:52:53]>> That's all I had though. I don't have anything else. The only other thing that I had was another small I think more exciting thing also in the realm of ohms is that M and first who have been working as a pair for a little over a year now I think um sarit and first shalong rot um have officially announced that they are going to be having their first BL project finally. Yeah, I know.

[00:53:21]It's been a long time of people kind of wondering, you know, if there was a project in the works for them, what was going on there? But on April 30th, M first and their manager, Alex, started to share a bunch of SNS postings of the BL novel, My Ex-boyfriend is an idol, uh, with the news that they would be starring in the upcoming adaptation of the series. Um, as far as I know, the show is still in pre-production. So, it's still in the very early stages, but it is being produced by Tri Creation, who famously did My Engineer and more recently did Fort Pete's Yesterday. And the story is about an idol who reunites with his ex-boyfriend at the peak of his fame. Um, and they are faced with a second chance at love. So, I think a lot of people feel like it's very suited for them because I mean Omen First do a lot of like they're dancers. Both of them are dancers. They seem to like performing a lot. So, people are excited. I'm curious to see, you know, how things are going to work out for them. I'm excited to see them having a project finally after um they've been working together for a while now. So, it's going to be fun to watch it all come together. I was starting to wonder if they were going to have a project ever because I've been jokingly calling them a Tik Tok friendship. [laughter] I I've been jokingly calling them a friendship ship because I was like they they don't even have any be work together. I was like they just post Tik Tok.

[00:54:45]>> Yeah.

[00:54:45]>> But now they will. So, >> yay for home first. But yeah, I think that is all for this episode of Catching Up with the BL fandom. Um, we had a lot of stuff to cover. A lot of things have happened in the recent months. We appreciate that you guys enjoy this one.

[00:55:02]So, be sure to let us know your thoughts on all of the different news updates that we discussed today. Give us your thoughts on the different situations and what things that you have seen discussed about them as well. We always like reading your guys's opinions on um these stories when we discuss them as well.

[00:55:19]So, leave us a comment down below and let us know. When this episode comes out, we will be less than a month away from our trip. So, we have a lot of exciting stuff in the works that we're planning for and we'll be putting a lot of exclusive content on Patreon. So, if you're interested in seeing that and interested in supporting the show, you can find our Patreon link down in the description along with all of our other socials where you'll be able to follow along with the trip in real time and see what's going on, what we're doing throughout the different days. So, be sure to follow us. Make sure to subscribe to our YouTube if you're not already because that's where a lot of the interview content and different content we have planned will be coming out. So, make sure you're subscribed to us. That is all for this week's episode and we will see you guys in the next one. Bye-bye.

[00:56:06][music] >> [music]