Understanding Debt

Added: 2026-05-23

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[00:08:07]Good morning. Good morning and welcome back to a weekly youth forums powered by the Cooperative Bank of Kenya. Thank you so much for making time to join us from whichever part of the country or the world that you are watching us from.

[00:08:24]Now, today marks our 16th episode. We're super excited for all of you that have been with us throughout the journey. And just in case you're joining us for the very first time and you want to catch up on the previous conversations that we have had, all you have to do is to go back to our social media platforms, COP Bank Kenya, on Facebook, on X and on YouTube as well. And you will be able to rewatch all those fantastic, impactful conversations that we have had here on our youth forums. Before I let you know what we will be talking about on our forum today, allow me to introduce myself. My name is Vleta Tangina, your host for the youth forums. Now, today we're going to be talking about something that has affected young people at some point in their life. And we're talking about all matters debt. Yani Meni, we do not mean to scare you. We just want to unpack for you what debt really means, what are good borrowing habits and what are bad borrowing habits. So to unpack that conversation, we are joined by our expert Charity Money, a consultant trainer at COP Consultancy. Good morning, Charity.

[00:09:40]>> Good morning, Gina.

[00:09:41]>> Happy to have you here. I'll allow you to introduce yourself to our viewers who are already streaming in on different social media platforms.

[00:09:50]>> All right. Thank you, Gina. Thank you for having me and happy to have this great conversation. My name is Charity Money Modemba, a consultant trainer at COP Consultancy, a subsidiary of the cooperative bank. I consult and train on diverse financial literacy areas including our topic of discussion today which I'm really passionate about >> because I believe that when young people understand debt matters early they are able to make wiser decisions when it comes to borrowing.

[00:10:19]>> Great. Absolutely. Thank you so much Charity for that introduction.

[00:10:26]So if you have any question, you were once in debt and you didn't know how to handle the situation or you're currently in some debts here and there and you need advice. You want to learn about how to borrow money wisely. Today we are here to give you answers to any question that you do have regarding all matters debt.

[00:10:50]As we continue the conversation, charity will be more than happy to answer you as we proceed to at the very beginning before we even get down to the details about mine. What is a debt?

[00:11:06]>> All right. So debt is a form of financing and where one person or borrows money with an agreement to repay within a certain period of time in future and usually with an interest.

[00:11:20]Right.

[00:11:20]>> And debts take many forms. We have bank loans, we have circle loans, we have mobile loans, we have even loans from family and friends. Right. Yes. All right.

[00:11:32]I take a digital loan that's now what we call a debt to agree on any interest as borrowed. Does that still qualify as a debt?

[00:11:53]No absolutely it qualifies to be a debt and uh the fact that you have borrowed money and you it's supposed to be returned in future even if it doesn't have an interest it is still a debt so it is not the aspect of interest that makes it a debt it is the aspect that you have borrowed money and you supposed to return it >> right all right now I'll tell you why this conversation is very important especially to the young people who we are trying to talk to right now kangalia statistics we have Kenyans under 35 they form the bigger proportion of the over 8 million people who have been listed by CRB. All right. So most of them are under 35 years old.

[00:12:38]You over your experience I know you've worked in this sector for a very long time.

[00:12:44]All right. Why are we in debt? The reasons that they give the reason as to why they're borrowing money. What are those key reasons that stand out?

[00:12:53]>> All right, there are many reasons why young people borrow money and there are those reasons that I would call good reasons. For example, videography and it has come a time when their business has really grown and they need additional equipment which quality equipment that that doesn't come cheap and so they may need to borrow finances to come and improve their business and this equipment helps them to generate more income delivery services and they have been using one motorbike but they've been getting overwhelming orders. They've been their business is growing but they need a partner a financial breakthrough for them to come and you know to to to to increase the to expand their business that would include buying an additional motorcycle.

[00:13:42]So they can actually go to a bank and borrow a loan for asset financing.

[00:13:49]So, and then there are also other reasons why young people that they borrow. Sometimes they borrow to put to keep up with friends using the I mean their income, their current income. So for them to fill that gap, the latest mobile phone, the latest iPhone in the market, especially the easy loans that kind of lifestyle pressure the social media pressure you got to keep up with the lifestyle what I would call consumption dates So from your explanation, it's very clear.

[00:14:54]So I'll allow you to break that down for us.

[00:15:04]But here you are explaining a good reason to have a debt. So please break down further for the young people who are listening to us.

[00:15:13]They're about to start life. These are also young people who are just getting their first job. So they're going to start dealing with money in different forms. So breakdown a good debt >> and a bad debt.

[00:15:24]>> All right. So when we think about a good debt, what comes to mind is that a good debt should help increase the future value or even your financial status. Or what I would say value over time.

[00:15:41]And an example like I had mentioned earlier income for their business,000 shillings income at the end of the month for exampid.

[00:16:12]bring some closer.

[00:16:19]So when you look at a debt that is adding value to your business, adding value to your your life, then another example gigs. I remember another day I was interacting with a music student in one of the campuses in Nairobi.

[00:16:48]prepare their students for music festivals at some point and now they needed to carry some equipments around. So they needed to buy a motorcycle income and on the other side in their house.

[00:17:30]And sometimes friends now you cannot afford it at the moment.

[00:17:58]So that is an example of bad debt, >> right? One of the mentioned and we have a lot of young people especially now that employment formal employment a bit hard and we do have a lot of young people in content. It was actually one of the conversations we had on our forums.

[00:18:32]iPhone thing.

[00:18:41]They're envisioning that that is the path they want to take.

[00:18:46]Is that a good right when you look at the intention?

[00:18:54]It is actually a good ambition. They want to get into content creation and part of the things that you need in creating content is having a phone with a good camera. So at this point those very highend phones next.

[00:19:40]It may not do so much, but at least for now can be able to post online. So I think that is what someone should consider.

[00:19:50]>> All right. So 250,000 iPhone 17 and you can get a cheaper phone that can also take good pictures.

[00:19:58]True. All right. Great. Now from your assessment a lot of us for the good reasons or the bad reason which one you know stands out the most because there's the good debt and the bad debt.

[00:20:17]What are we looking like in the space of borrowing?

[00:20:22]Yes. So I think most of the young people They start borrowing money to buy a very big screen for them.

[00:21:18]in the market.

[00:21:26]So for me there's a lot of borrowing to finance lifestyle.

[00:21:39]Most of the young people we are talking about below the 35 they have young children who are going to small to you know schools most expensive very prestigious take care of those I mean those needs.

[00:21:57]So that is why you find So that was a very good thing. But then do I need to start a business on a loan?

[00:22:24]Right.

[00:22:28]All right. So, in this day and age, you'll find a lot of us, especially girls, I see this with girls a lot. We form WhatsApp groups because we want to travel, you want to do a trip to South Africa and all of us are contributing like 150,000 click. So, that's a bad date. All right.

[00:22:51]So, there you go. At least so far, we've been able to identify what is a good debt, what is a bad debt. And we'd like for you, our viewers, to ask us any questions.

[00:23:06]Please feel free to ask those questions.

[00:23:09]If you're in a situation where you don't know what to do and you're already overwhelmed within, not to worry. Just ask us the questions and we'll be more than happy with charity of course to make sure that we give you answers to your question. Like is it advisable to take a loan and use it to buy shares or put it on a fixed deposit goal account?

[00:23:42]Fixed deposit. Is it advisable? What would you advise odo?

[00:23:48]>> All right. So uh when I look at that situation uh the objective I'm at the sabu or the purpose for borrowing that loan looks very okay invest in shares invest money market the cost in a bit you know as interest yet the fixed deposit available this 1% or 12%.

[00:24:38]So I would encourage aside but then also it brings the issue of shares are very longterm. They are very kind of permanent before you realize the the benefits. So yes, that is what I would say.

[00:25:15]Whatever they make, they can now buy the shares invest. All right, great. John X and if someone is already in debt and feels overwhelmed, what's the very first step they should take?

[00:25:31]feel overwhelmed to at least manage what they're feeling, the feeling of being overwhelmed. What would you advise them to do?

[00:25:41]>> All right. And uh that's a very real situation that we are having very many young people go through in our country.

[00:25:58]One of the most important things realize that I need to accept that this is my situation.

[00:26:24]How much do I do I owe the financial institutions the people and then The reason I'm saying that you need to make a personal resolution that this is the time to get out of this debate of the day then from there probably that we'll be looking at towards the the the conversation we end of the conversation we are How your money comes.

[00:27:38]So then see this I want to be to be vulnerable.

[00:28:00]All right. You negotiate the terms. You can negotiate with which kind of people negotiate with my parents, my siblings, my friends. Are you able to negotiate bank? Are you able to negotiate digital loan? So help us understand when it comes to negotiating where does it apply?

[00:28:19]>> All right. Uh when it comes to negotiating, it also applies with banks and I have seen many people experience that especially that relationship with the their bankers.

[00:28:34]months.

[00:28:35]But honestly at these current terms maybe probably the one that is a bit longterm involves you know the digital and the to convert from the experience I have in banking and I would like you to help me restructure this loan.

[00:29:32]And I find that when we have sensible lenders more than willing to have the debt paid. So is this doable? But also it depends with one letter to the other.

[00:29:49]>> All right.

[00:29:59]months.

[00:30:02]What is the best time for you to have those negotiation conversations? The best time to have the negotiation conversation loan is approaching but you don't have the money. So just go to your lender and start the negotiation there. Otherwise what makes the negotiation sometimes fail is because sometimes people hide they switch off their phones they move towns and you saw the will still catch up with you and by the time you are getting there so let it be initiated by you.

[00:30:46]All right great. All right. So when we moving to now we understand a good debt we understand a bad debt like sometimes those lines can be very blurry moving to at least I've been working but that debt is not a good debt as a young person who's just trying you know to live a good life what are those signs you are getting into an unhealthy space when it comes to debt because it can be a bit hard sometimes good or bad depending on the reasons they don't need it but they have a reason to it so what will happen in your life what patterns will you start seeing which can be an indicator the direction you are taking it's not a good direction break down those patterns for us >> all right um when we talk about unhealthy debts or an unhealthy relationship with death doesn't just come one day in a process in a over time and most of the times the ones that we call the early warning signs or if I don't do an adjustment somewhere and one of them is when you have borrowed money and you start missing installments but time progresses.

[00:32:24]So that is a very early warning sign.

[00:32:26]Another thing, especially the online content.

[00:32:55]Another thing is for example people who are employed when we find ourselves borrowing salary advances and being so dependent on them that at the end of the the month and you know in my life as a bankerending officer and I remember there something I couldn't really understand very well that time I was young later advance on the advance.

[00:33:40]They are so dependent.

[00:33:46]You have to borrow that 5,000 10,000.

[00:33:54]Another thing is when you start even avoiding people and your friends and even hiding that is also another sign.

[00:34:10]So those are some of the few things before I really dig this whole father.

[00:34:24]Is that also actually badly? Yeah, that is another sign. In fact, that is a very serious sign, right? All right. Great. So, let's look at some more question from our online community.

[00:34:43]Please keep those questions coming.

[00:34:45]Remember, if you want to learn a thing or two on how to borrow money, what to do, what not to do, this forum is for you. So, go ahead and ask us those questions.

[00:34:57]Charity is here for you. Val, I graduated two years ago. Still haven't found a stable job. Help is already calling. What are my options? And I know V is speaking for so very many other students from campus who are going through the same situation.

[00:35:18]Peter on Facebook, can I use one loan to pay another loan? I'll allow you on that again.

[00:35:32]Money is not flowing in yet, but help is already calling. How should I approach this situation as a young person?

[00:35:41]>> All right. And I know that is a reality of many people nowadays when we graduate.

[00:35:49]But what I would want to say is that the moment I would say as you try to maneuver in life, two things I would encourage. number one, but also maybe this is something that we can also explore whe I'm doing everything possible. But even another thing I have seen and I saw this with a relative and they did that.

[00:36:48]But the most important thing also for holiday. So it is also important for people to try and prioritize It is still a debt that somebody needs to pay. All right. Great.

[00:37:13]I know you had talked about it. Can you maybe just emphasize some more on why it's not okay to pick one loan to pay another loan and the cycle continues.

[00:37:22]>> Yes. And uh I think already if you're struggling with one loan then it will be more serious,000 you simply postponing the problem and moving that problem from one lender to another lender but it still be still remains your debt. So I think the best thing 50,000 from this lender5,000 lender you taking 55,000 so probably part of the things is it because the the period is very short I need to go and borrow then you can go and try see whether you can negotiate with your current lender problem.

[00:38:27]>> All right. Great. So, a lot of times when we go to borrow money about the facts that you need to know before borrowing the money, you're always driven by the need, the need that you want at that time.

[00:38:41]That is the only thing in your mind.

[00:38:45]But there are things that I need to know when I'm borrowing money, whether it's from a relative or a bank or the digital loans. What are those facts that I need to make sure before taking that loan?

[00:39:00]>> All right. Uh before borrowing and as we say that borrowing but before borrowing it is important to ask yourself a number of things. Number one, the purpose So is it a purpose that is going to create value?

[00:39:20]I mean what is the purpose?

[00:39:24]So or I'm just borrowing because of a want that I can actually postpone. So it is important.

[00:39:51]bank statement depending on the product and the I need 100,000.

[00:40:06]I need an additional photo,000,000 amount.

[00:40:20]So be honest they are very high. Then number three is something important. It is the ability to pay.

[00:40:43]That is not a very wise decision. It is important to analyze that I'll be able to pay this loan. So after I need to have planned how will I be paying what is my disposable income about debt is that it will help you satisfy whatever you are doing but then it's a commitment of your future incomes another thing the security.

[00:41:24]How can you source for that security?

[00:41:26]That is also something that you need to consider.

[00:41:39]that the first solution that comes to our mind when we need something is actually borrowing but probably there could be other things even including delaying this particular idea probably it's also a very it's a wise decision whe the key that you need And the short maybe one month for the right purpose but because the repayment sometimes as human beings forget because you really need that money at that moment. So you really want to see do we have other options and also finally the cost. So this part of the experiences that I have seen sometimes financial institutions who was in reta by us out there by the speed at which they process loans but people really will not dick about it is coming at what cost? It could be coming very fast but the cost is very high and when I say cost I mean the interest rate.

[00:43:05]even what you' call hidden cost probably. So do I understand the explicit cost? Do I understand other maybe processing fees, insurance fees? I need to really understand.

[00:43:25]profit from that business maybe it's about 5,000 even beyond.

[00:43:39]So those are some of the very key things you can consider >> and then I hadn't thought about your repayment the cost and all that those are things that I'm now learning when I'm there trying to express my need and then a financial advisor one to three things do you advise someone to pause go back think about it think about all these things that you've talked about when your mind now is coming from an informed point of view what do you advise such a person purpose and the amount they need. Then they find there's all these other things that they need to be aware about. What do you advise them to do at that point?

[00:44:19]>> All right. So I would advise young people out there the moment these things the time it's supposed to be paid match what I I want or rather how I can be able to afford when you discover that you need time more time to go and think about it please don't shy You can just take a break, go reflect, think about it, and then as you take that time, you are likely to make a wiser decision.

[00:45:01]>> Right. All right. Good. So, we've broken down a bit on getting loans from your family, relatives, and friends bank, getting loans from bank and now we also do have the mobile and digital loans. They are quite very easy to access there and then and I know people like convenience. So I see how a lot of young people would want to go for the digital loans and the statistics that we have there around 62% of those with the digital loans are under 35 years old.

[00:45:36]Again comes the point of very many young people are in debt. What is your thoughts? What are your opinions on digital loans and the consumption of the same by the young people?

[00:45:47]>> All right, so digital loans or what we prefer calling mobile loans.

[00:45:52]>> Uh I would say they have their own advantage. Number one, they are easily accessible >> and uh you don't need to do paperwork, you know, for you to get that loan. And you find that they are also you can access them from wherever. Now they also help with meeting financial needs especially the distress you know the the cases of emergency distress and I think most young people will borrow these loans when they are really in an emergency or a situation they need to fix. So they are to that extent they are good and uh maybe what I would say is that they also come with a lot of risks.

[00:46:25]The first risk is uh the interest rate.

[00:46:28]The fact that the convenience of not going through the emotional you know it has been priced so it's normally very expensive. Then number two they normally shortterm within one month within two months but majority within one month. So they really put pressure on the business and even our sources of income. Another probably a good time probably need they prone to abuse. They are prone to misuse. So maybe what I would say about very careful about them sometimes that convenience that we experience more than five digital loans. What can you say about that given that also these apps are so many they're always advertising they are very enticing at the same time and we know money needs keep happening every other time so for the that young person who's over relying on the digital loans what piece of advice would you give such a young person >> all right so I think for if you find yourself with five with many apps already warning sign that you might get into financial distress.

[00:48:31]And so if you discover and sometimes how they come.

[00:48:41]So you download another app.

[00:48:47]And so it is very important for young people to avoid all borrowing money.

[00:49:00]And also they are normally very expensive loans. So if you start burdening your business, start burdening your income with those kind of loans from many different institutions, mobile apps, then it are negotiable the same way or we change the the loan itself. So when it comes to a mobile loan, a digital loan, one month after >> things go left for you.

[00:49:32]>> All right. So this depends a lot. I I wouldn't say they are all negotiable, but probably mobile app, the service provider for the mobile app or the lender that they are using to see whether they can actually negotiate and then to what extent. And there are some also that when you start negotiating with them, you also need to know it comes with maybe penalties and maybe they will give you a few penalties. But probably at that point you be saying it is better for me over the following month.

[00:50:07]I just focus on this one and clearing it.

[00:50:12]Right.

[00:50:24]I move on to another thing. The attitude is000 and stuff like that. So when you have that attitude of and then you ignore it, how can that haunt you as a young person later on?

[00:50:40]>> All right. Um D and irrespective of the amount that when you are borrowing money 1,000 2,000 it it is actually a debt and it has it can have impact a negative impact on you the same way part of the credibility in lifem terms of meeting obligations but then it catches up with them in future when they were doing reference background checks.

[00:51:37]So it really speaks so much about your character. So that mindset that having the right attitude towards money and other people's money it is very important.

[00:51:53]>> Yes, you can get listed though I know there's a bit of you know restriction on the amounts below 1,000. But the thing is I would want people to look at it that what motivates you to pay debts.

[00:52:03]you know instead of looking at whether I'm going to be listed or not listed because I know you may situations you're not listed the thing is what motivates you to pay it is because you want to be unless you were just borrowing and you didn't want to pay and that's a bad >> and that's a bad date a bad behavior so thank you for being with us today I am getting a net pay of700 000 Kenya shillings. I was thinking of getting a loan to put a serial shop for an additional income. Is this a wise move?

[00:52:43]17,000.

[00:52:45]That's the net.

[00:52:49]What do you think they should do?

[00:52:54]What are your thoughts on using loans to fill temporary gaps in a personal budget? At what point does it become a bad debt loans to fill some small small to gaps that you have going on in your life?

[00:53:10]What are your thoughts on that? Thank you so much Wendy for being with us streaming on YouTube. All right to Oh, there's another one just before we answer all of them. Alex on Zuma, please expound more on how do I go about paying my help loan with my irregular income.

[00:53:33]We understand that's the situation our young people are in. So let's start with the first one. 17,000 that's my net.

[00:53:44]What piece of advice do you have for me?

[00:53:47]>> All right. So this question I'll answer it in two context.

[00:53:55]employment and like now our viewer,000 that is a very good move because it is part of the way of managing debt. It is actually increasing our sources of income. So it's a very good ambition. Maybe the question make sure that I have a bag of each on every home. So 100,000 already do I really need to borrow to finance a business or if I need a 100,000 I can be able to put aside can I start small with my business 50,000 then the next 10 months can I be able to put this money aside for me to be dreams come closer.

[00:55:40]I would adise what is my goal? My goal is to own a serious shop. When can I own this serious shop? I can work maybe with January next year for example and then how much will I need by that time and then they say let me put aside some money so that even if I'm going to top up then it's going to be just an an amount so that from experiences even with some of my friends but they don't necessarily open a shop for example You are even able to tell exactly actually this demand is there and I can manage this business so that instead of now just borrowing a huge capital to come and start that then this is a business that you can be able to start slowly slowly And then you build up on it and then that time you'll even have started making profits, >> right? So write down a budget. See how much they really need to start this business. They can start small.

[00:57:16]>> All right.

[00:57:18]What are your thoughts on taking loans to fill temporary gaps in my personal budget?

[00:57:25]>> All right. When I think aboutoraps, I'm thinking and one of the things that I would encourage them is that probably one of the things they can try maybe they if they have not tried is to see whether there's an adjustment they can do on their lifestyle to see whether some the things that are causing them to be in financial distress at that point or to create those gaps.

[00:58:12]So they can actually look at that and try to fix that.

[00:58:35]All right. So when you find yourself So before this conversation is charity, I had already put myself in some debts.

[00:58:46]So how do I manage these debts moving forward? Practical day-to-day steps that you can give someone who already is feeling overwhelmed by the debts. They already with different debts in different places here. They want to pay like mambo is not looking as good as they hoped it would. So what are those practical steps that they can take on a daytoday life as they try to minimize the debts they found themselves in?

[00:59:12]>> All right. So I want to build this on the question that had been asked earlier and I say that we'll be revisiting this towards the end and I had started by saying they need to accept their situation and write down the debt that they are needed. After they've done that, they need to now say these debts I have classified them financial institution and then expensive and shortterm debt.

[00:59:57]Do I negotiate with the lenders?

[01:00:12]And I would want to say at the moment for the next three months at this and at that time something that one need to do is also to adjust their lifestyle.

[01:00:43]Easier said than done but it is doable.

[01:00:45]Let me say it is doable.

[01:00:52]Can I move to a smaller house? Maybe 25,000 15,000 save from my rent already towards paying loans.

[01:01:08]This is not going to be a permanent situation. You're trying to solve a problem. You're trying to make a personal resolution.

[01:01:15]Sometimes this one even means even moving neighborhood and sometimes what happens you will still do them only that the time you'll be doing them during this time it is a season and during that season please learn to say no >> and learning to say no is not is also it's doable. Yes.

[01:02:08]So in other words and also it's good to appreciate as you do that in life in that season I came when I came with all this. So and of course but now at that moment they able to start with me and believe my answer. Another thing is delayed gratification during still this season there will still be precious just know that if something is not a need please don't borrow and something that is also very important during this season I'll be interrogating why I got into this financial distress because if you move out apply those strategies to me years, whatever. You have done all that and finally you have achieved your freedom.

[01:03:16]If you don't change the lifestyle and the things that cost you to be in that problem, you still find again going back there. So take the lessons.

[01:03:25]>> All right.

[01:03:26]Now you can't.

[01:03:29]All right. So we're going to take some last questions as we come towards the tail end of our conversation.

[01:03:36]How can one estimate the pay cut which is deducted with the current economy status and future stability? Eg one earning 50,000 per month as gross. How can they estimate their salary is 50,000 per month. So please help Martin with that. Can one be able to include other assets when repaying a loan?

[01:04:01]>> Mhm.

[01:04:01]>> Mhm. All right. So, when you are earning uh especially if you are salaried and uh you know you are employed definitely there's going to be a statuto deductions and of course the pay and you find that the pay is going to be even sometimes getting to 30%. Maybe you can work with a figure of 25 to 30%. and probably somebody with like 50,000 you may discover they taking home probably like 31 or 29,000 there. So it is important to consider that. So just you can probably work with 30% because there are so many deductions that are coming up but but also when it comes to that it's good and I really like that question even to say even if currently this is a deductions that I'm experiencing you can always keep on providing and saying that I don't want to live the 30,000 life I want to make a provision that there could be future deductions that probably may come up can I be able to accommodate that so that you're not living at the edge you know when you live so much at the endactly is on the edge. That is when you discover that you can put in other assets to repay the loan.

[01:05:11]Is that possible?

[01:05:12]>> Yes, it is possible. And um one of the things items maybe as we went back to debt payment the right position after maybe at this point I would encourage us so obsessed and so attached to material things but you cannot dispose yet you're having sleepless nights I can still go back to cleaning my clothes but it can help me sort this digital.

[01:05:53]So it is also an option and what happens is that when it comes from you especially it's not now initiated by the lender. It is more friendlier.

[01:06:07]And you know when you sell that car, when you sell that washing machine, when you sell that whatever you don't really need, then what happens? It doesn't prevent you from acquiring another one.

[01:06:16]When your financial position improves.

[01:06:18]>> Yeah. All right. Great. So, as we wrap up, I'd like for you to share a financial advice.

[01:06:27]Take home. This is my takehome to you as a young person in campus employment just the other day. What is that financial tip that you will give them as they maneuver finances in their life?

[01:06:40]>> All right. I would want to let them know that uh when it comes to debt management, finance management, it is not just about numbers. It is not just about the the you know the the the the figures. It is also goes back to financial discipline. And financial discipline is your ability to be in charge and control of your finances. And when you have a financial discipline, you'll make sure that you're budgeting.

[01:07:04]Start earlying so that you are not just spending your money without any direction.

[01:07:12]And then also the ability to say no, avoid social media pressure, peer pressure, avoid those things. And also learn the closing line that achieving financial freedom it is over time. It is not an instant thing. So with consistency in discipline, you'll achieve it.

[01:07:28]>> And always work with a budget budget.

[01:07:31]Yes. For your expenses. Yes.

[01:07:33]>> All right. Thank you so much, Charity, for being with us today, helping us unpack the conversation on like I had said earlier, you just think it's a bad thing. It's a bad thing. But you've helped us understand you can have a good date.

[01:07:51]We have a tendency of taking bad debts which put us in a lot of trouble. But thank you for helping us learn how to maneuver and make the right decisions when it comes to borrowing money. Thank you to our online community for being with us in today's youth forum. We do hope you've learned a lot about all matters debt. But if you think there's someone who needs to watch this conversation pinhappa, please feel free to tell them. They can rewatch it on our social media platforms. Copank Kenya on X on Facebook and on YouTube as well. If you have any comments or feedback for us, we'd love to hear from you. Send us an email on webinar at copbank.co.k.

[01:08:32]Thank you so much, Kamakoid. It has been an absolute pleasure. We'll see you again next week on Friday at 11:00 a.m.

[01:08:40]with another fantastic conversation. My name is Vletina. Goodbye.

[01:09:02]Heat. Heat.