The Spirit Stalker, EEBS, Bookubus and Will Errickson! What could go wrong?! LIVE book club

[00:00:29]Bro. to stay on now and forever.

[00:01:16]Oh no.

[00:01:18]>> There we go.

[00:01:20]>> Hey, welcome everyone to the elusive exclusive book society. Uh, we have a bunch of special guests, a special book, a special evening. But before we do anything, anything, before we say anything, introduce anybody, talk about the book, talk about the author. Before we actually do anything, let's sit down and have some Blackberry wine because apparently you can't do anything or say anything if you're not holding Blackberry wine. So, cheers.

[00:01:55]I enjoy some blackberry wine.

[00:01:58]>> I'm glad you brought it up.

[00:02:00]>> That's not good at all.

[00:02:04]>> I like blackberries.

[00:02:10]>> All right. So, so yeah. So, hello everyone. Welcome to the Lucid Exclusive Book Society and we got our special guests here. We got Alex from the BookCubus.

[00:02:23]Hello. Thank you for >> Oh, yeah. The most senior of uh YouTubers around.

[00:02:31]>> You've been around for >> 10 years.

[00:02:34]>> Too too many years to remember, quite honestly. Too long.

[00:02:41]>> Yeah, that's good. It goes back a ways.

[00:02:42]You're very knowledgeable. That's why we had you on this horror episode because we're talking horror. And you know who else knows horror? That man right there, Will Ericson.

[00:02:53]Hey guys, >> thanks for having me.

[00:02:56]>> He's been on the channel before we did the live chat.

[00:03:00]>> That was fun.

[00:03:01]>> That was fun.

[00:03:02]>> That was fun.

[00:03:05]>> So, hello. How's everyone doing? How everyone doing out there in the chat, the live chat. There we go. Look at that. You guys are famous.

[00:03:16]>> To be fair, Chris is starruck by by a lot of people. So, hey, why you got to demean our guests?

[00:03:21]>> I'll still take it.

[00:03:23]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:03:26]>> All right. Well, there's a lot of comments.

[00:03:30]Oh, we're just going to say hello everyone.

[00:03:35]>> Chris, you're the only special one in the comments >> there. We'll put Jeff up.

[00:03:38]>> There's Jeff.

[00:03:39]>> Hey, Jeff.

[00:03:40]>> Sweaty Jeff in the house.

[00:03:43]>> That's what we call him, too. Behind his back. Sweaty Jeff.

[00:03:46]>> He calls himself Sweaty Jeff.

[00:03:50]They're mostly just talking about Canadian wildfires.

[00:03:54]>> Do you guys want to talk about that or do you want to talk about this book?

[00:03:58]>> Oh my gosh. Spoiled for choice here.

[00:04:03]>> What What book are we talking about, Nick?

[00:04:06]>> Oh, the book that we're talking about is The Spirit Stalker.

[00:04:10]>> Oh, look. You guys got nice physical copies. I had the >> nice >> by Nina Romberg.

[00:04:17]And this Yeah, this was available on the the uh archive website which uh Will and Alex, you you both read it as as well as Tim.

[00:04:28]>> Yes.

[00:04:28]>> Yep.

[00:04:29]>> Digitally. That's pretty that's pretty cool that it was available for free.

[00:04:33]>> Yeah, >> that that was all I was willing to put into.

[00:04:39]>> And do you still feel ripped off a bit?

[00:04:42]>> Maybe a little.

[00:04:46]Well, you know what was funny?

[00:04:49]>> You know what was funny though? The version they have on internet archives, there were quite a few pages where like the text is like slightly clipped by the side of the screen. I was afraid for a second like a couple a couple of those chapters I was like, "Okay, we're going to get to the point where we're going to lose like an entire word of, you know, that side of the page."

[00:05:07]>> Thankfully, it never got that bad, but it was making me nervous the whole time.

[00:05:10]>> Same. Yeah, >> there was one page for me that just would not load at all no matter how many times I tried kind of scrolling back and forth and after a minute I was like I think I'm going to be okay >> probably.

[00:05:25]>> I was afraid for a minute and Nick I had I had messaged you about it. I was like that the page keeps kicking me off and won't let me reaccess and I was afraid I was not going to be able to read the book at all. Um because it was the first time I'd used it. Uh, so I had a lot of trouble at the beginning. Um, but once I got through, I was in and I finished it.

[00:05:45]Uh, yeah, I finished it just earlier today.

[00:05:49]>> I was curious to um, all the people out there watching, did anyone else read it on the archive?

[00:05:55]Just wonder, did somebody order it?

[00:05:58]>> We know some people ordered it because Yeah, because it as soon as you announced it, it disappeared from the internet. So, we know some people picked it up. Someone someone must have bought the copy that I was trying to buy. And you know what? Looking back, they can have it. I'm glad they got it.

[00:06:15]>> Oh, Keith's apologizing for the Canadians.

[00:06:17]>> Oh, >> it's okay. We don't I was going to say we don't blame Keith, but I can't be sure about that.

[00:06:23]>> It might have been Keith.

[00:06:25]>> It might have been Keith.

[00:06:27]>> How did we choose this book?

[00:06:31]>> I cannot recall. Well, >> or if I didn't don't know if I ever knew. translation. Whose fault is this?

[00:06:37]>> Our fault.

[00:06:39]>> Well, whenever we choose the book here, we have to pick something that is relatively short. Shorter, nothing too big. And then something that is readily available online for >> yeah, >> for not too much money. And then I also had to find something that neither you nor Alex have read in ' 80s horror paperback.

[00:07:00]>> So, this is what we got.

[00:07:01]>> Okay, one book.

[00:07:06]I I've read lots worse. I've read lots worse.

[00:07:09]>> Oh, yeah.

[00:07:10]>> Yeah.

[00:07:13]>> All right. So, Jeff says that he's never heard of this book or author before. Hey, Jeff. Would you like to hear a little bit about the author?

[00:07:25]>> You guys I think Nick knows a little bit about the author that he's just dying to share with us.

[00:07:30]>> I do. All right. Her name was is she's still alive. Her name is Nina Romberg and she's most well known as an author of romance novels under the pseudonym Jane Archer. She published 13 standalone romance novels from 1978 to 1997. Have you guys read any of those?

[00:07:51]>> No, but I just saw Jane Archer in the chat. She's in the chat.

[00:07:54]>> Hi, Jane.

[00:07:58]>> Good one. You have me.

[00:08:02]sweating.

[00:08:05]>> There was a look of panic there just for a second, but >> she also wrote two non-fiction books on Native American folklore.

[00:08:14]>> Yeah, obvious.

[00:08:16]>> And she wrote she co-wrote two vampire novels with her husband, author C. Dean Anderson.

[00:08:23]>> That's her one. I pulled it off my shelf.

[00:08:25]>> I have, Alex. I have that and I've read that and >> I saw your review.

[00:08:29]>> Yes. Yes. So, when I say I've read worst books, I would say that's one of the worst.

[00:08:34]>> It sounds amazing though. I still have to read it.

[00:08:37]>> It sounds amazing. Oh my god. Oh my god.

[00:08:40]Yeah.

[00:08:42]>> Knowing that not not to get too into the plot, knowing that she'd made a better book than her husband is really on point.

[00:08:50]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

[00:08:53]So, she wrote the the two with her husband uh The Crimson Kisses and Layer of Ancient Dreams.

[00:09:01]And this is kind of a coincidence because the very next book we are discussing on EES and this is random too.

[00:09:09]>> Are we we're doing this already? Okay, >> tell them. The next book we are discussing is >> Warrior Witch of Hell by Aza Drake, who is a a pen name for C Dean Anderson. So, Yeah.

[00:09:23]>> Isn't that wild? Just random.

[00:09:25]>> I picked this one before Nick landed on Spirit Stalker.

[00:09:29]>> Yeah, that's crazy. Do you guys book Warrior of Hell?

[00:09:34]>> I I've seen that cover. When I reviewed his book, the raw pain Matt, what is it?

[00:09:39]Raw. It's a ripoff of Rex.

[00:09:41]>> Yeah.

[00:09:41]>> Uh that's that's >> And when I reviewed it on the blog a few years ago, I did a deep dive into that author and found his books like that that cover art. Um, but uh I didn't know they were married. That's the first I I did read that they wrote stuff together, but I didn't realize they were married.

[00:09:58]So, but yeah, I've seen that book cover before.

[00:10:01]>> Apparently, apparently the black metal band Bath wrote a song about that series, >> the the Hell series.

[00:10:09]>> Wow, man. I love it. I love it.

[00:10:11]>> So, we better live up.

[00:10:12]>> Pretty sick.

[00:10:14]>> Yeah. So, if anybody wants to read it, you have 30 seconds before this disappears from the internet right now.

[00:10:21]Oh, I just looked it up, Jake. It's already gone.

[00:10:24]>> All right. And then, uh, Nina also wrote two solo pinned horror books. This one here, The Spirit Stalker from 1989. And there's a sequel.

[00:10:36]>> There is.

[00:10:37]>> Shadow Walkers from 1993.

[00:10:40]>> Oh, it's a sequel, huh?

[00:10:41]>> Both both have Muriam in it. And I'm guessing Blackberry Wine.

[00:10:50]That makes too much sense.

[00:10:52]>> Nina was born in 1945 and is still alive.

[00:10:56]So, let's be critical but not cruel.

[00:10:59]>> Right.

[00:10:59]>> I I make no promises.

[00:11:03]>> Well, one thing I read about her, it said she did graphic design. And when I'm reading the book, the way she drilled down on the details of the main character's um art career where she was illustrating, you know, things for cataloges >> and the way she's talking about the different pens and stuff like that. And I'm like, >> this is what this woman did. You know, you could just tell this writer didn't research this because the character has this job. I was like, this author is just doing an autobiography because it's easier than doing research on Right.

[00:11:36]>> Yeah. and her and uh her and sine lived in Dallas.

[00:11:42]>> Okay. Okay.

[00:11:46]>> All right.

[00:11:47]See all the comments I missed while I was talking. This is the hardest part right here is when you're talking and it's going.

[00:11:53]>> Okay.

[00:11:53]>> And people are like waiting for you to go. You're like, "Hold on."

[00:11:57]>> Yeah. Not so easy, is it, Nick?

[00:11:59]>> No, it's not.

[00:12:04]I mean to be fair to be fair this is also on the internet archive so if you really have a hard time finding it you can read for free >> see this is what happens these you know these books become rare and they're not even necessarily that good and then people will unfortunately pay big money for them and then go wasn't it was hardly wasn't even worth half or worth 20 or whatever and I'm like, it's the scarcity is is the only the only factor.

[00:12:36]Has not one thing to do with the quality or lack thereof of the writing or the narrative or the story or anything.

[00:12:44]>> And and I've said this on my blog. I've said this in Facebook posts and stuff.

[00:12:48]And I really want to get that out there.

[00:12:49]Just because a book is $200, all it means is that it's rare and people want it. It doesn't at all mean it's any good. It could be good, but that's not a factor in why the prices skyrocket.

[00:13:01]Absolutely.

[00:13:03]All right. So, I'm going to go over the summary just of the book in general and then we'll go through piece by piece.

[00:13:10]And if anyone is new here, this is all spoiler. This is a book club chat. We're going to talk about the whole thing in detail.

[00:13:19]>> We're going to spoil it.

[00:13:21]>> Spoil it for the world.

[00:13:24]So, the the summary is there is a the book starts with a mysterious stranger wearing a big black coat in the middle of a Texas summer.

[00:13:34]He's been killing women and throwing them in a sludgy oil pit.

[00:13:39]And it's alluded that the man is possessed by by an ancient woman-hating evil entity called the Spirit Stalker.

[00:13:48]>> And then our protagonist is Sunny Hansen. She's a woman in her late 20s, early 30s. I didn't write it down. Do you guys know?

[00:13:56]>> I just can't.

[00:13:57]>> It's It's implied that she's in her early 20s because they they say that when she got married to her abusive husband, she was like 18 or something.

[00:14:05]So, >> yeah. Early to mid 20s.

[00:14:08]>> Yeah.

[00:14:09]>> Uh, so she's living in a small town in East Texas, hiding out from her physically and mentally abusive husband, Dan.

[00:14:17]and she hangs out with a 70-year-old native woman who loves blackberry wine named Miriam. She meets a good old boy Texas ex- football star by the name of Billy Joe whom she starts dating sort of. And then Sunny must overcome the PTSD of her former marriage and connect with her past lives to do battle with this ancient evil with the help of her new friends.

[00:14:41]>> That's a great synopsis.

[00:14:43]>> It really it really is. is so succinct and that that's a the problem with with horror paperbacks is that decades went on after King was all the the the bloat and stuffing in these books. This book you could have taken 50 pages out of this book and had had a book like from the 70s where the you know they're 200 pages you're in and out. Um, and but that's something that, you know, people wanted big thick horror novels in in the 80s, in the later 80s. And it's a shame because you read some books and and you could tell like, oh, this is not bad.

[00:15:15]This isn't terrible. What's bad about it is there's just too much nothing going on, you know?

[00:15:20]>> So, >> yes, too much talking.

[00:15:24]>> Yeah. You must have hated all the the scenes with the the food with the ice cream and the the hamburgers and the the corn dogs and the the butter the butter.

[00:15:36]They were so excited about this popcorn.

[00:15:38]Popcorn >> milkshakes and chocolate sundaes after the milkshakes.

[00:15:43]>> Yes.

[00:15:45]>> They got Texas right.

[00:15:51]>> Yeah. That's awesome.

[00:15:54]Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:15:57]>> Yeah.

[00:15:58]>> Thanks, Steve.

[00:15:59]>> Yeah. Well, I mean, when the big epic books are good, they're good, but you know, >> not always. And not every >> It's the same thing that happened It's the same thing that happened with fantasy in the late 70s. Yeah.

[00:16:11]>> Lord of the Rings got super duper popular. Everyone was writing 800page fantasy novels. Yeah. It's >> not all of them are fantastic. So, >> Thomas the Covenant and the Terry Brooks and all those. Sure.

[00:16:23]>> Yeah.

[00:16:28]>> All right. So, we're gonna start off uh we'll be spending where we're going to start off where we'll be spending most of the book and what we'll be doing and that's at Sunny's house with Miriam drinking blackberry wine.

[00:16:43]>> That's how the book starts. It's how >> to be fair. Sometimes we have coffee before blackberry wine, >> but we always have blackberry wine.

[00:16:53]>> Always.

[00:16:55]>> Did this um Did this give you a craving?

[00:16:58]Did anyone get a craving for blackberry wine? It's just mentioned so much like a commercial.

[00:17:03]>> I I've never had it. So, I would I would totally try some.

[00:17:07]>> I would try some, but it didn't make me crave it as I was reading it.

[00:17:11]>> It's not very good. And I not >> I love wine and this is very like >> very syrupy like a glass of this will give you a headache for sure.

[00:17:20]>> Are you saying it's not the sweetest most refreshing thing you ever tasted?

[00:17:24]Jake, >> are you saying that you couldn't contemplate the universe and feel comforted in the arms of nature while drinking this?

[00:17:36]>> Say that.

[00:17:37]>> All right. Tim's in the mood.

[00:17:38]>> Tim's in a mood. Did it ever say if uh Miriam was making that wine?

[00:17:43]>> Yeah, she's >> Okay, of course. Yeah, I may have skimmed a page here or there, you know.

[00:17:51]>> Yeah, at the beginning they eat the blackberry. It was the only time that they eat it. She has here's blackberries. Here's blackberry wine.

[00:17:58]>> Okay.

[00:17:59]>> No, that's not true. She puts some in her granola sometimes.

[00:18:02]>> That's right. There was the breakfast.

[00:18:04]Yeah.

[00:18:05]>> Yep.

[00:18:07]the the variety.

[00:18:10]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:18:13]>> So, we're um >> I love I love the fact that uh she's too poor to afford sugar, but she constantly has a fridge stocked with beer.

[00:18:25]>> Yeah, >> sugar is the cheapest thing you can buy.

[00:18:29]>> Yeah.

[00:18:31]Yeah, >> actually. Yeah. I didn't I remember that line.

[00:18:38]can afford sugar.

[00:18:39]>> Yeah, >> you got to have priorities, Jake.

[00:18:42]>> Right.

[00:18:44]>> So, Sunny goes, did I mention the whole prologue there?

[00:18:48]>> No. No, you didn't. But it's fine. I'm sure we're not sure did. I sure did. My bad, guys. So, there's a prologue where we have the guy uh dumping the woman's bodies into the sledge pit. And the sl What's a sledge pit? Did anyone know?

[00:19:04]Were you curious? You're like, I'll figure it out as it goes.

[00:19:08]>> Is it not just like the residual like the all the waste oil bubbling up from the pumps?

[00:19:14]>> That's >> Yeah, I think they she describes it as it's uh a pit is filled with oil production waste.

[00:19:20]>> Yeah.

[00:19:21]>> And then it's like off to the side and then it just becomes this natural water hole of death.

[00:19:26]>> Yeah. Cuz somebody was swimming through it at one point. I'm like, are they swimming through an oil slick?

[00:19:30]>> No, they're swimming through the lake part of it.

[00:19:32]>> So it's like Yeah. water they just contaminate. I don't know.

[00:19:35]>> Yeah.

[00:19:35]>> So, this guy's throwing this killer is throwing these bodies in, right?

[00:19:40]>> And the book starts with a timestamp of July 20th.

[00:19:45]>> I was like, "Oh, we were this close."

[00:19:49]>> And I thought this was pretty clever how she did this because she said, uh, it starts at 2:29 a.m. and then it it introduces you to each of the main characters and what they're doing at that time.

[00:20:02]>> And I thought that was a cool way to introduce everybody. Yeah, I thought so.

[00:20:05]>> I did like that.

[00:20:06]>> Yeah.

[00:20:09]>> All right. Then we move on to where they're hanging out drinking blackberry wine at Sunny's house.

[00:20:16]>> And uh Sunny goes to the market and backs into a truck. And who's in that truck? But Billy Joe. Billy Joe. Bob. I don't remember what his last name was.

[00:20:25]>> No, >> he's the ex- football star.

[00:20:29]>> The Billy Joe quarterback.

[00:20:31]>> Yeah.

[00:20:31]>> Billy Joe linebacker. And this is their this is their meat cute.

[00:20:36]>> My gosh. The most contrived meat cute.

[00:20:38]>> They're so Yeah. Yeah.

[00:20:41]>> This was the romance. You know, she >> had her experience in the romance novels.

[00:20:47]>> She threw it in there.

[00:20:49]>> It's nice.

[00:20:52]>> I'll try, Andrea. I'll try.

[00:20:58]>> I don't know what that means.

[00:21:01]Vocationally declined.

[00:21:03]>> Vocationally. Yeah. No one was working.

[00:21:06]>> Oh, yeah. Well, no. Sunny is working.

[00:21:09]She just she works from home. So, >> but struggling. Really struggling.

[00:21:13]>> She can't afford sugar. So, how you know?

[00:21:15]>> True. Yeah.

[00:21:17]>> Yeah.

[00:21:19]For me, >> but they could still afford to go to the drive-in and the purple cow every day apparently. I don't know.

[00:21:28]>> Sounds pretty pretty decent to me.

[00:21:31]So yeah, she meets Billy Joe and he invites her to go have a soda soda pop and she wants nothing to do with this lonely cowboy.

[00:21:41]>> I wonder why that is. I wonder why she wants nothing to do with him.

[00:21:44]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:21:46]>> Well, it's coming up.

[00:21:49]>> It's because of her ex, Dan.

[00:21:54]Do you guys know Dan?

[00:21:55]>> Oh. Oh, do do I remember Dan? Oh my goodness.

[00:22:00]>> Well, Tim, I'm glad you brought that up.

[00:22:02]Let's talk about Dan.

[00:22:04]>> So, everyone, in the novel, he never appears.

[00:22:09]>> Okay.

[00:22:09]>> I thought he would for sure.

[00:22:11]>> I That's my question. So, Sunny's backstory is that uh he was very physically abusive and and terrible.

[00:22:20]Just a >> just a terrible Yeah.

[00:22:23]>> terrible human being.

[00:22:24]>> Yes. So, it's a really um proper setup to have her like hiding out in this place where she doesn't know anyone and she doesn't trust anyone and then she's a witness but she can't come forward because she's afraid to be found out.

[00:22:41]>> And I was like, that's clever, too.

[00:22:43]Like, I'm like >> real motivation. Yeah.

[00:22:46]>> It was good. It was great. And that was my question. The Jardy answered, did you guys think that Dan was going to show up? Yeah, >> I think so. Yeah, >> I thought that we were going to get like a prologue at the very end. You not to skip over too much, thought we were going to get to a prologue at the very end where they resolve that whole story arc.

[00:23:07]>> What I thought was going to happen was eventually her name was going to get out. The news cameras are going to come.

[00:23:13]There's been murders here. She's going to then Dan's going to see her. Oh, that's where she went and come try and find her and then have that other added element of terror and danger. And >> no.

[00:23:23]>> Oh, that's a whole storyline in it with Beverly Marsh and her abusive ex.

[00:23:28]>> Um I can't remember the the husband Tom I think his name is, but remember he tracks down her best friend and beats her up and she gives her up and then you know he ends up in the deadlights at the end of it and that was you know you know you gota you introduce it you got to bring it around and tie it up at the end you know but >> then that's not really that's not what happened here.

[00:23:51]Yeah.

[00:23:52]>> Yeah. If I think if it just would have been the backstory and then maybe mentioned a couple times, but it's literally like throughout the entire thing. And I get that she's portraying her as having this PTSD, right? She's really affected by it, >> but I think that like it would have been maybe a little stronger like if if he showed up if it was more of a show like just threatening. I'm not I don't want anything to happen to her, you know?

[00:24:16]Mhm.

[00:24:16]>> But if and plus like >> this is this is fiction. He's a bad guy.

[00:24:22]Like here's your opportunity to kill this guy. Like he's got it coming, >> you know? He's bottom of that oil pit, dude.

[00:24:30]>> Exactly. That's what I say. He's That's Yeah, that would have been felt so good.

[00:24:33]Yeah.

[00:24:34]>> Yeah, that was a I just I think that Yeah, that she missed on that one. Yeah.

[00:24:39]Yeah.

[00:24:40]>> I would have loved for that to happen just so Sunny will stop talking about him. Oh my goodness.

[00:24:48]>> Like the first time the first time like it mentions him in her like little uh like her internal monologue, you get her backtory like we're saying, >> great motivation for this character.

[00:24:58]She's she's on the run from an abusive husband. She doesn't want anyone to find her. Awesome. I'm I'm totally behind that. And then it just keeps getting brought up again and again. And oh, do we remind you that you know all >> nothing happened with it. That's >> nothing happened with it though.

[00:25:14]>> Yeah, >> he keep we keep getting brought back into that headsp space where she's like, "Oh, I hope Dan doesn't find me because last time I was with him, this happened and this happened."

[00:25:26]>> I get it. I get it.

[00:25:28]>> Yeah. As somebody just said, he needed to be ended up in the pit with the the the blonde corpse woman, you know, >> something something needed to happen.

[00:25:37]>> Yep.

[00:25:40]>> So, yeah. So, she has some she has some things going on.

[00:25:44]>> Yeah.

[00:25:45]>> And uh uh Yeah, it's it's sad. Um so, that that uh she goes out for a walk.

[00:25:52]She looks kind of out in the middle of of nowhere. And she walks near the oil pumps, the kid out in the fresh air, walking by the oil pumps. And as she's walking by, she thinks she sees a face in the sludge in the water, sludgy water. And she's like, "Nah, no, no, no." Goes home. But she lays there and can't stop thinking about it. So, in the middle of the night, she gets up there and goes back. And while she's like standing there looking into it, she starts to slide in cuz it's a sludgy mud pit. And then she just like slides in.

[00:26:23]Like her legs go in and then the body comes up and like the body's like floating above her legs as she's going in.

[00:26:30]>> Great. I'm still like this is all right.

[00:26:32]This is all right.

[00:26:35]>> It was a cool um cool scene. Cool imagery.

[00:26:38]>> It reminded me a little bit of uh Michael McDow, old maneuver Babylon, things like that. Uh so I was like I was like awesome. Okay, cool. Or the end of Poltergeist or something, you know, and I'm like okay, we're getting somewhere.

[00:26:51]uh you know.

[00:26:53]>> So then uh she freaks out and she starts running back through the woods and she hears the car coming and she realizes that they're coming towards her towards the sludge pit.

[00:27:03]And then she uh watches this guy get out of the car. She's like making up excuses like maybe someone was tired. They needed a break and they're going to sleep here by the oil pump. Ah, and then uh he sees the man take the woman out, a blonde woman, throw her over his shoulder, and then he throws her into the pit and then she waits for him to leave and she runs over there and gets the woman out and gives her mouth to mouth. She tries to save her life, >> but then uh no, it doesn't work. and she shoves her back in the sledge pit >> and then uh she goes home and she's like she's has this inner turmoil to not call the cops. Like I said, that was the good the backtory set. That was good >> cuz now she's like stuck in this in the scenario where what does she do?

[00:28:00]>> Yeah.

[00:28:01]>> Still good.

[00:28:03]What did you guys think at this point?

[00:28:06]>> Yeah, I was intrigued. I thought it was a good a good setup and yeah, I was curious to see where it was going to go and yeah, I thought the sludge pit was, you know, had some promise, some interesting >> kind of promise there. Yeah.

[00:28:18]>> Yeah. And I thought even just like on a pros level uh was perfectly good. The sort of tone and and the uh the sort of uh uh rhythm that she had, I don't know if rhythm's right word, uh was readable.

[00:28:33]You kept wanting to go, okay, what's next? And you all know that a lot of horror paperbacks do not have that.

[00:28:39]They're over here. They're here.

[00:28:40]They're, you know, slow down and whatever. And I thought this was like I was just setting it up, you know, this setting up nicely. The the the pros was was pretty decent, you know. So, yeah, I was I was into it at this early stage.

[00:28:53]Yeah.

[00:28:55]>> Did you think that this was going to be a supernatural horror book or were you like h like how is this going to wrap around here to how the cover sells it?

[00:29:04]It looked supernatural. They even say it on the cover. I think >> I was afraid that um when as soon as the sheriff shows up and he walks in the bedroom and I'm like, "The body's not going to be there."

[00:29:15]>> He's like, "Hey, what is this?" And I'm like, "Is this just like a locked room mystery?" You know, that was when I started to get worried. I was like, "Is this just like like a a mystery gussied up like a like a horror novel, like a Scooby-Doo where it's like it's all rational in the end?" And I'm not really a big fan of that. and it turned out to to not be. But but yeah, at first I was a little worried that it was this is just a mystery novel is what I was worried about.

[00:29:41]>> I have a I have a theory about the the sparcity of the uh the supernatural elements.

[00:29:48]>> Yes.

[00:29:48]>> In this story I I won't say it just yet because we have to get to a certain point for >> Okay. Yeah.

[00:29:55]Yeah, I at at this point actually, you know, around probably the point that Will mentioned when the, you know, the the police are actually getting involved and, you know, uh, Sunny is like she's she's really, you know, she really doesn't want the the cops to she doesn't want to be involved with the cops. She wasn't doesn't want her name to get out there. She doesn't want her husband to find her. And so she uh she ropes in Billy Joe to tell him, "Hey, I found some bodies in the in the old sludge pit back there. Cops only find the one."

[00:30:30]>> And so at this point, I was like, "Okay, there could be a little bit of supernatural something going on."

[00:30:37]>> Mhm.

[00:30:37]>> But at this point, I'm like, "This is going to be just a straight up like mystery thriller kind of story."

[00:30:42]>> That was fine.

[00:30:43]>> Yeah. But then the rest of the story happens and we have our our long drawn out conversations over Blackberry Wine. And so, >> but at that point though, I was still I was still on board. I'll say that.

[00:30:58]>> Yeah.

[00:30:59]>> What about you, Jake? Did you even read it or >> of course I read it? I started it last night and finished it last night because this reads stupid fast.

[00:31:08]Uh, yeah. The pros I thought was I didn't think it was great. Just because her style is >> she's not a mixture of show don't tell.

[00:31:18]She is just >> tell tell tell.

[00:31:21]>> That's true.

[00:31:22]>> You don't have to have your brain on even a little bit when reading this book. It's all spoonfed to you very slowly.

[00:31:28]>> Uh and so I yeah I I was into it though like and I probably have a little different uh I know I have a different opinion than Tim in regard to this book.

[00:31:38]Um, I don't hate it like he does, but no, I thought it was it was fine. It really >> I haven't said that yet. Have I said that on this stream yet?

[00:31:48]>> Not yet. But yeah, I went into this thinking this would be the worst thing I've ever read. And I and probably up until this point, I'm just like, dude, I'm into this. This is pretty cool. This is pretty interesting. Maybe it's because I've been to these actual locations that they're talking about.

[00:32:03]I've driven through there even this year. I drove through there uh with my family. So, I know like the the topography, these old small towns and stuff and so I I don't know. It was fun.

[00:32:13]>> Have you had milk? Have you had a milkshake from the purple cow?

[00:32:16]>> No, but I'm going to find it.

[00:32:21]>> Well, the only way I know about East Texas and stuff is from Joe Lansdale.

[00:32:27]>> That's his uh that's where he's from and stuff. So, I had seen sort of seen the stuff in in his stories. Otherwise, I wouldn't know anything out about that region.

[00:32:42]Okay. Yeah.

[00:32:45]>> I am the sludge pit Rob.

[00:32:50]>> So, unfortunately, now is the next chapter where we get introduced to the Reverend.

[00:32:56]>> Well, no. To be fair, we're introduced to him in the prologue, but you're right. He doesn't he doesn't take a part in the story until this next chapter.

[00:33:06]I loved every scene with the reverend was just my favorite.

[00:33:11]>> So, there's a reverend character who uh basically thinks that women are inherently evil.

[00:33:18]>> That's true.

[00:33:19]>> They need I can't confirm.

[00:33:25]>> Proud of it.

[00:33:27]>> You betcha.

[00:33:30]So he has like sermons about it and um so he gets a phone call one night like how did this guy even get his phone number at home? But it's the uh and there's an excited guy and he's calling this reverend like I heard your sermon on the on the radio and I agree with you. These ladies, they're evil, right?

[00:33:49]And it's obviously the killer. Like was there any doubt in anyone's mind who was >> Oh no.

[00:33:56]And then the the two bond on getting the evil out of ladies and they hope to meet in person someday.

[00:34:03]>> Well, you uh you left out something when >> what did I leave out?

[00:34:09]>> When we when we first are introduced to the Reverend, he is struggling struggling to stay, let's just say, >> flaccid.

[00:34:22]I guess he's just there's these oil derks all around him. He looks too long.

[00:34:29]>> What?

[00:34:30]>> What are you talking about? In the promo talking he gets a boner and it's just like completely random.

[00:34:40]>> Wow. How did I miss that?

[00:34:43]>> I'LL FIND IT. NICK, you keep going.

[00:34:45]>> It's one of the first things you read, bro.

[00:34:49]>> I guess that was like he's human, too.

[00:34:51]Everyone has his struggles all around.

[00:34:53]It's like, "Oh my god." Really?

[00:35:00]>> Yeah. Because of watching the pumping action.

[00:35:04]>> Everything.

[00:35:09]>> Yep.

[00:35:10]>> Oh, man.

[00:35:11]>> That's just a naked That's just a naked gun joke, Keith.

[00:35:17]All right, so where are we?

[00:35:20]Uh >> oh no, we distracted ourselves with the oil der.

[00:35:25]>> No, I'm gonna find it.

[00:35:28]>> Um, where were we? Oh gosh. Am I going to have to do the recap already?

[00:35:31]>> No, no, no, no. I got it. I have a bunch of stuff right here. I'm just sure I don't know if I want to talk about it or not.

[00:35:37]>> I got it.

[00:35:39]>> Stood for a long moment. He stood for a long moment, smiling benignly on the two oil wells, their black backs pumping up and down, up and down. the shafts going in and out, in and out of the earth. For a moment, he was shocked as he felt himself start to harden.

[00:36:00]>> You know, you know what? He's an older guy. Good for him.

[00:36:04]>> I don't think he's that old.

[00:36:06]>> No, I mean, considering Well, whatever.

[00:36:12]We'll get we'll get to it later.

[00:36:13]>> Okay. Okay. Rob.

[00:36:22]>> Yeah.

[00:36:22]>> Happens every time.

[00:36:29]>> I'm glad I could make that happen.

[00:36:37]>> All right. So the next day, uh, Sunny anonymously calls the police to report the bodies, but they don't believe her.

[00:36:44]They think it's a crank call.

[00:36:47]So then, uh, Miriam takes Sunny to Billy Joe's house to see if he'll help because apparently they're friends.

[00:36:55]And he's immediately smitten on Sunny and agrees to tell the cops that he found the bodies.

[00:37:01]>> Yeah.

[00:37:02]>> And then we get to meet the Sheriff Barker and Deputy Price.

[00:37:08]Uh which are >> these guys.

[00:37:11]>> Yeah.

[00:37:13]>> Which are Yeah.

[00:37:14]>> Real real Institutes of Law and Order.

[00:37:21]>> So yeah, they're pretty redneck. Uh and Price is like uh this horny guy who just wants to bang ladies and sheriff is just kind of like just there. I don't know.

[00:37:34]>> Yeah.

[00:37:35]>> Really?

[00:37:35]>> Just there. didn't really have much going on.

[00:37:38]>> He he is he is generic horror story cop number 357.

[00:37:43]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:37:44]>> And then along with them comes Nan who is like a special victim's unit social worker. They never said like really what >> they never said. My notes I'm like did I miss where it says what her exact job is? And I don't think it ever did.

[00:38:00]>> Yeah. It was kind of vague but also wordy about it at the same time.

[00:38:06]Yeah, they said it was like almost derogatory like, "Oh, she she's in charge of like women crimes >> and minorities and stuff."

[00:38:13]>> Well, that's how that's how they felt about her. That's especially how Price like he literally says, "Oh, you're you're >> overeducated, you know, and you're concerned about minority rights and and children and and stuff, some stuff he doesn't he doesn't care about. So, you know, he was always ugling her legs and trying to get her into into his patrol car and she sees right through him. So, uh, I definitely felt like I don't know if that was quite a standin for the author, but I definitely felt like at that that time, uh, before I learned that the author would had done graphic design, I was like, I wonder if she was, you know, in in that field, you know, of of like, uh, advocating for women for abused women or something because that that that had some detail, I guess, even though we didn't know exactly what her position was. Um her concern was felt felt real.

[00:39:06]>> Yeah.

[00:39:07]>> Yeah. She let you >> I did think Oh, sorry. I did think that was an interesting uh like character her career because I don't know if I've really seen many, you know, even books that could have a character like that.

[00:39:19]It's not really, especially from that era, it's not really a >> That's right.

[00:39:22]>> a career you would see come up very often. So >> That's right. That's cool.

[00:39:27]>> I think that that that stuff hits a lot harder now. Um, I thought that th those scenes with Nan and that that description of of her concerns was like I was like this is like happening right now, you know?

[00:39:42]>> Yeah, exactly. I think the whole, you know, domestic abuse content of of the book was seemed like a rarity for the era to really be discussing that topic.

[00:39:54]>> And it didn't seem exploitative. It didn't seem exploitative. If this were a [ __ ] Richard Layman novel, you know, I would have tossed it out, you know, out the window. Um, and it did not seem exploitative at all. At all. Not even intending to be.

[00:40:09]>> Would Richard Layman have a character like that?

[00:40:12]>> Yeah. Right.

[00:40:14]>> As long as she had a good rump.

[00:40:16]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:40:18]Exactly. Yep. Yep.

[00:40:20]>> She got nice legs, you know.

[00:40:25]>> So, yeah. So then we have Yeah. We So what I thought was weird is we have the Reverend who's this very hardline dude and then Nan who's very serious, particular also kind of hardline. And then over time both of them will do and say things that aren't in line with how the character is set up.

[00:40:49]like he like she softens them as they go, >> but she does it without anything making them change.

[00:41:00]>> Like there's no influence that you see.

[00:41:02]>> You're just like all of a sudden like like when the reverend is when the guy's calling him for like the third time and he's and the reverend's like, "Oh, women are very important in the church and in fact some of them are feminists." And like you're like, "What? What?" Whereas like three chap Yeah. Whereas like three chapters ago, he was literally saying, "Oh, well, women are the source of all sin in the world." So, >> yeah.

[00:41:26]>> Yeah. And then there's a part with Nan where they're like, she's sitting around with Sunny and Miriam and and Sunny and Miriam are like, "Us ladies, we have to get together and do it. We're the ones."

[00:41:38]And then Nan is like, "Well, the sheriff is doing like everything he can, >> which he isn't, by the way.

[00:41:45]>> What's happening here?"

[00:41:47]So, I just thought that was kind of weird though, like the characters just kind of drift.

[00:41:51]>> Yeah, >> very much so. Yeah, they they quickly become a like almost a sisterhood or something and it's they're doing sleepovers and >> Yeah.

[00:41:59]>> Yeah.

[00:42:01]>> All right. So, where are we at? We're uh So, they So, they drag the pit and they only find one body, >> which is cool.

[00:42:09]>> Where's the other body? What?

[00:42:11]>> Which is cool.

[00:42:12]>> Yeah.

[00:42:14]And then Nan and Price go to talk to the folks nearby and the first stop is Sunny's house because she lives really close to the pit. And Sunny invites them in, but she's not happy about it.

[00:42:25]Uh Price is if he's a dumb cracker and he's he's Rosco Pico train, right?

[00:42:32]>> Yeah. Hazard.

[00:42:35]>> That's what he reminded me of.

[00:42:39]Uh yeah, Sunny doesn't trust Nan. And no, Nan doesn't trust Sunny. She thinks that she's hiding something. And then when Sunny tells her that she's an artist, she's like, "Let's see your drawings."

[00:42:52]>> Right. And she's like, like, "Okay, I'll go get him." And then Price actually stands up for Sunny. He's like, like, "What? You don't believe her? Like, what's your problem?"

[00:43:02]>> I don't I just thought the characters were like all over.

[00:43:06]>> Yeah, kind of.

[00:43:08]Like I thought he was supposed to be like a jerk. He's going to be a jerk throughout the whole thing.

[00:43:14]>> You know, I feel like a lot of these books were maybe not first draft or second draft, but they did not go through a lot of editing. They sort of they were cranking these out because, you know, we could read this now and go, "Oh, she just rewrote this section one more time or tighten up." You know, like we're talking about bringing the the ex-husband back in at the end. Uh so many of these books that's the most frustrating thing is not that sometimes they're outright bad but you can see the potential in them >> and go oh again like I said if they took out 50 pages or or you weren't doing so much uh uh telling telling telling you know um you'd really have something here but you know this is basically pulp fiction and they're just cranking them out. So reading it now you can see like oh this is such a missed opportunity or that kind of thing. So I see you see that a lot in these books.

[00:44:05]>> So let's see. Uh so then we have the spirit wheel when Miriam makes Sunny the spirit wheel to protect her protect her. And Sunny's like well I'm an atheist but I'll take your Indian wheel.

[00:44:24]>> But here's the thing though, Nick. Does does Miriam actually explain to Sunny what the spirit wheel does?

[00:44:35]>> I don't know. I didn't have that written down.

[00:44:37]>> Neither does Miriam.

[00:44:41]every almost every single time until like the last act of this story when Sunny asks Miriam how like one of these you know Indian medicinal artifacts work or like you know what this part of her beliefs really mean. Miriam always says the same thing. Well, I don't really know, but and that got on my nerves so much because we're trying to make build this character up as like, you know, the this, you know, knowledgeable, you know, >> the wise woman of the woods.

[00:45:11]>> She's a wise woman of the woods. She has knowledge of like the things beyond, you know, the mortal realm or whatever.

[00:45:18]>> She's supposed to be like the connection between all the the spiritual supernatural stuff going on. And yet she doesn't really know what she's doing for most of the book.

[00:45:27]>> But she teases us along, Tim, because she lets us know like, I'm really close.

[00:45:32]I'm just letting you know. I'm really close to remembering the entirety of the legend.

[00:45:36]>> I will let us know >> when it's time for the plot to happen.

[00:45:41]>> Yeah.

[00:45:45]>> Yeah, it was Yeah, it was frustrating.

[00:45:49]So yeah, we got the the spirit wheel and Miriam is basically trying to talk Sunny into believing that there's something there's this evil force uh coming for them around and that this this killer isn't just a human being.

[00:46:11]>> And she also tries to talk Nan into it and Nan is having none of it.

[00:46:14]>> Yeah.

[00:46:16]until she does.

[00:46:19]>> Well, yeah. I mean, does she I guess once she's >> she carries around the little magic pouches. I don't believe in that. Let me see that magic pouch.

[00:46:26]>> Just in case, you know, just in case.

[00:46:28]>> Just in case, I suppose. I guess I'll carry this vial of holy water just in case.

[00:46:37]>> Also, blackberry wine is freaking gross.

[00:46:43]So then we have the striper scene.

[00:46:46]>> YEAH.

[00:46:51]>> Every time the referend was on the page, I was dying laughing.

[00:46:55]>> Yeah.

[00:46:56]>> Yeah.

[00:47:01]>> Tim, do you want to Tim was really excited about the striper scene?

[00:47:05]>> So So um Yeah. So, the killer keeps calling the reverend throughout the entire book. And every time he uh he hangs up the phone, it goes to his point of view where he's like, you know, driving either away or towards the scene of his crime.

[00:47:23]And at one point, he's in the car that he's stolen listening to the radio. And of course, he's listening to Christian radio because he's a a good homicidal Christian boy, >> right?

[00:47:32]>> And uh Yeah. And he had it it it makes us very aware that he cannot stand dirtiness you know he had he wants everything to be clean to be pure and that's why he's killing these women because women are dirty and evil and they make things dirty and evil and so he needs to clean the world of women and so he's listening to the the Christian radio station and all of a sudden out of nowhere they play a song by 1980s glam rock sensation Striper and he immediately turns IT OFF BECAUSE NO, WE WILL NOT HAVE ROCK AND roll on our Christian music station. Rock and roll is of the devil. And this was the one part in the entire book where I was gofawing with laughter because I love Striper, >> but have you seen Striper >> live? Unfortunately, no.

[00:48:25]>> I've seen Striper live.

[00:48:26]>> Have you? Did they hit you in the face of the Bible?

[00:48:30]>> No. They were so those guys are so old and fried they're not even singing.

[00:48:35]There's a whole there's a group of guys behind the stage that are actually hitting all the notes because those guys are just baked to oblivion.

[00:48:42]>> Oh man.

[00:48:48]>> So yeah, he's really upset by this striper and he pulls over to the gas station and he calls the reverend and he basically like asks him about striper.

[00:48:58]He's like, you know, do you think it's okay for Christian heavy metal? That's the devil's music. And the reverend's kind of like, I mean, it's Christian.

[00:49:07]He's like, you know, I'd prefer no. But >> this was a real debate.

[00:49:13]>> We got to get to the youth somehow.

[00:49:15]>> Yeah. Right. Yeah.

[00:49:17]>> The thing was in that moment, I'm like, "Holy crap, I've had this exact conversation with my grandfather. This is weird."

[00:49:26]>> Yeah. I mean, it's an artifact of the 80s, you know, it really is. So, I I I thought it was interesting that there were a couple uh >> that there were these kinds of references to contemporary culture, uh pop culture at that time. Um and uh yeah, and if you were a teenager, then it's all ve very real conversation in in the culture at the time. Um, I thought it was funny how when they went to the drive-in and they were seeing these like >> cult grade Z kind of movies that >> uh they what they went see Return of the Return of the Killer Tomatoes.

[00:50:01]>> Um, so there were there was a real one and then a couple of the other ones that were mentioned I was like I don't think these are real but whatever. I just thought that that was you know just some some fun in there. But uh but yeah, the the striper thing that was that was unexpected.

[00:50:18]It was. Yeah, it was cool. I was surprised by it. Sort of. Tim Ruin the surprise. But >> I'm sorry. I just I was so excited.

[00:50:26]Like, oh man, this book is really bringing me down. BUT OH MY GOSH, STRIPER REFERENCE.

[00:50:33]>> SO, while he's making the call, he looks back and he's surprised to see the car and he's like, "Oh, that's my car.

[00:50:40]That's really nice."

[00:50:42]Anyone know what that's about?

[00:50:44]>> No, because they never really explained it.

[00:50:47]like is he like some So yeah, eventually it's revealed that yes, he was possessed by this thing called the spirit stalker which like kills women so he can gain power and take over the world. I don't know like but we don't know who this guy is. We're never really given like a a a good picture of who he is, where he came from.

[00:51:10]>> No, we're not.

[00:51:10]>> He's just we we know he's a fanatical Christian. We know that he wants to kill women because they're dirty and he's homeless and he ends up living in this rundown old house. That's it.

[00:51:25]>> But why is he confused about the car?

[00:51:28]>> I don't know. Is it implying that like the spirit stalker took hold of him and he like lost his memory and during that time he stole a car? I don't know.

[00:51:36]>> It's No, cuz he took the car. He takes I think he's h it's implied that he's hitchhiking >> and he's just pick Yeah, because he's like these women are picking him up.

[00:51:45]>> Oh, okay.

[00:51:46]>> That's how I read it at least.

[00:51:49]>> I don't know. I I guess my one of my biggest qualms with this book is that she she could have set up the supernatural like so much earlier and like done all of these things to where >> You mean not right here?

[00:52:05]>> Yeah.

[00:52:07]200 pages in.

[00:52:09]>> So, was this like kind of a setup of the supernatural that he's really not in control? Because it's if it is, it's like >> maybe, >> you know, >> probably just bad writing.

[00:52:21]>> I That's what I'm going to say. It's it's and it's bad writing, but it's also again I've seen this many times before, writers writing horror because that's what sells. They don't have any understanding of horror. They don't h understand the what we say now the tropes. you don't understand how you pay out, you know, information. Um, and so she's thinking it's going to be this big reveal that it's supernatural, but it's like we're reading a horror novel. You don't need to hide that from us. So, I think this is maybe somebody who hasn't read a lot of horror. Um, and is, you know, they're they they're writing in a totally different genre. And then it's like, here, you can make some extra bucks if you write in in horror, too.

[00:53:00]Um, and man, you can tell, you know, as many books as we've all read, it's like you can tell when somebody's heart is in it or not. There's there were parts in the book where I felt like the author's art was in it, the native the indigenous stuff, the the cat legend and things.

[00:53:16]So, like this is all she's written books on that, but the other stuff like what we're talking about. Yeah. Um, just uh this is per person who doesn't really know horror.

[00:53:29]Yeah. It kind of felt like she she felt feels like I got to sneak the horror elements in almost, >> right? Yeah. And and which is odd because it's market was marketed as a horror novel and everything. So why Yeah. Why why be koi about it? And I've seen this in other books, too. So yeah.

[00:53:47]>> Did anyone notice any parallels to Twin Peaks?

[00:53:53]>> That's that's your area of expertise, man.

[00:53:55]>> Not really. There is there's an there's an evil entity that's like of the earth of the realms.

[00:54:02]>> And it inhabits owls.

[00:54:06]>> Yeah, the owl, right? Yeah.

[00:54:07]>> It inhabits men's bodies because it specifically wants to harm women. That's just like in Twin Peaks, right?

[00:54:14]>> Yeah, that's a good point.

[00:54:17]>> Let's see. I have other things because I was like I got to the end and I was like, huh? like that was uh Twin Peaksish.

[00:54:28]Um yeah, the women, the the Native American lore and the the owl.

[00:54:34]>> And then anytime, even though we're not there yet in the conversation, anytime that there's horror, it was really surreal.

[00:54:41]>> Like it almost was like dreamlike because when it >> all right, so we'll get to it. So she's laying in bed after her date with BJ, Billy Joe.

[00:54:53]I have BJ in my desk because I got sick of writing it down.

[00:54:56]>> That's how I put it. Yeah. BJ. I was like whatever. So I was like just BJ.

[00:55:00]>> Nice.

[00:55:01]>> So they Yeah. They go out on this date because they people in town will talk.

[00:55:05]So they have to be seen together so they can discuss the bodies >> which makes no sense.

[00:55:13]>> So they have this nice date out and that's where they eat the wonderful chili dogs and popcorn and uh stuff at the drive-in. And I actually didn't mind that part the little romance part. It was I thought it was very sweet actually because she was like, you know, so hurt and stuff and he was just so like this big old good old boy, but he like >> Yeah. Well, that's the thing. He's like the only male character >> very cool and chill.

[00:55:41]>> Yeah, he was cool. I wasn't telling you to chill. I was saying he was chill.

[00:55:45]>> No, no, no. I said I'm just saying like he's the only male character >> who isn't introduced as like a major douchebag. So >> yeah, >> I think that the only three characters in here that like are kind of perfect are the Sunny, Miriam, and and Billy Joe because the rest of them, like I said, I they they kind of like waver in and out.

[00:56:11]Mhm.

[00:56:12]>> Oh, you mean you mean in like in like characterization? Like they're actually solidly characterized. Yeah, I would agree with that.

[00:56:18]>> Yeah.

[00:56:20]>> So, yeah, they have their date. He drops her off and uh he's worried about her.

[00:56:24]She's like, "No, I'll be fine. I'll lock the door." And she goes inside and goes to bed with all the windows open.

[00:56:31]Genius. And in the middle of the night and uh there is a dead woman lying next to her.

[00:56:41]And that part was so good, right? It >> was great.

[00:56:45]>> But did anyone else just assume that it was in her head? Because this whole book has been talking and in your head.

[00:56:53]>> So I was just like I glossed over it like, uhhuh. Yeah. Okay. There's a body in the bed. Yeah. Right. And then they got to the next part and I was like, "Oh, that was real." And I went back and read it again. I was so excited.

[00:57:06]>> It is happening.

[00:57:08]Well, here's the thing, and this is where I got to I got to interject my theory about the the Blackberry wine.

[00:57:14]So, we we get this scene where Sunny wakes up in the middle of the night with a body in her bed. And you're you're right, Nick. Every time horror elements are injected into the story, it's very surreal and it's like, is this really happening or not? And so, when the body shows up in her bed and you know, she starts calling Billy Joe on the phone, you got to get over here. The dead woman is in my bed. I thought to myself, hold on a second. This is all in her head.

[00:57:42]>> What's Miriam been putting in the blackberry wine?

[00:57:44]>> Yeah.

[00:57:47]>> You think?

[00:57:48]>> And then, but then they come over to her house and they also see the dead body.

[00:57:53]And I was like, "Oh, well, there goes that theory." And then I thought, "Wait a second. They've all been drinking the blackberry wine. Every single one of them. There's been a scene where every single one of them has drunk the the blackberry wine. Then the police come over. The police don't see the body. The police have not drunk the blackberry wine, Nick.

[00:58:12]>> But didn't Nan have some blackberry wine? Cuz they call Nan. She comes over.

[00:58:16]They don't call the cops. They call Nan.

[00:58:18]>> Okay.

[00:58:19]>> Yeah. And I knew I knew the body was going to disappear when they're like, "Nan, do you want to see the see the body?" Ah, I don't need to see the dead body. I'll uh let's just have some coffee and sit down and talk. And >> she had enough blackberry. Yeah, I'll check it later. Maybe. We'll see.

[00:58:35]So, they call this sheriff and they show up and yeah, no body. What did you guys think happened?

[00:58:42]What do you think happened to the body?

[00:58:43]You think it was a Do you think it was a dream? I mean, all three of them imagined it.

[00:58:49]>> That's >> a ghost >> at this. Maybe the killer had put it in there and then taken it away, but why?

[00:58:57]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:59:00]Yeah. That was that was kind of a false note. Like I said earlier, like as soon as as soon as the sheriff goes in the bedroom and he's like, "What what's going on here? There's nobody here." I was like, "Ah, so so what are we doing here?" You know, is now it was like, is it surreal? Is it supernatural? And it's like and as I said, I was like, "Is this just a mystery, you know, with a with a crazy killer moving the body around?"

[00:59:24]And so I was kind of like at that point, >> I think maybe now that I'm thinking about it, I don't know whether I thought this at the time or whether I'm only thinking it now, but like that maybe if the killer was Dan and he was [ __ ] with Sunny that he did that, you know?

[00:59:41]>> Yeah, >> for some reason. But um >> but no, it obviously wasn't Dan because Dan wasn't ever ever there.

[00:59:49]>> But see, that that would have actually been a been a good choice. could have been, you know, something.

[00:59:55]>> Yeah, that would have been totally horrific. Thinking think about that.

[00:59:58]Like him like leaving bodies, you know, like the the torture of that, you know, to get back to get back at her like say he, you know, so he's found her, you're going to kill these other women and then you I mean, >> bam, that's there. That's interesting, you know, >> can write that.

[01:00:13]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[01:00:14]>> And it would have made sense why they never really describe the killer. You don't know his name or what his purpose is. Yeah.

[01:00:21]There would have been no supernatural elements though. You had to take out all that.

[01:00:25]>> Yeah. Yeah, that's true.

[01:00:26]>> And I think that's really what she wanted to write about because she wrote those two non-fiction books about uh Native American folklore.

[01:00:34]>> Right. Right.

[01:00:38]>> Uh that's Yeah. So this is where uh Miriam really tries to Oh, this is where Miriam tries to talk Nan into the the evil entity idea.

[01:00:50]And I thought this was really cool of Nan and kind of confusing. I think I don't know. Let me explain because I think that the author to the author Miriam is the hero. Right.

[01:01:03]>> She's the she's the knowledgeable one.

[01:01:05]She was all of her points I think are supposed to be right in the book. Mhm.

[01:01:10]>> But then there's a when she's trying to tell Nan, you know, it's this evil entity and Nan is like, "Don't make this excuse for these guys. This is what happens in court." And like they get off.

[01:01:23]>> Right. Which was like the most logical sane thing ever.

[01:01:27]>> Right. Right.

[01:01:28]>> So, is Miriam supposed to be right in this aspect or is Nan or what's going on? I I was so confused as to what the author was really trying to say about certain things.

[01:01:43]>> Yeah. And that's why that's why I think this person this author didn't have the facility with writing about supernatural horror to to make that through line and make it clear to the reader. I think that's where it gets vague and soggy. Uh um because the characters seem to be changing and like I don't find that believable. They would say that and everything. Um, and I think that that's just uh someone doesn't really know how to use horror to to really get that through.

[01:02:13]>> Yep.

[01:02:18]>> Okay. So, then the reverend gets another call from the killer and he's like pretty sure. He's like, "This guy's killing these women. That's what's going on." And he uh the guy the killer wants to know if the women will try and take revenge. Like he's getting nervous.

[01:02:33]And the reverend doesn't like the way he's talking about it. And this is the the part where he's like, "There's women that are very important in our church.

[01:02:41]Like a woman started our church and some of these women are feminists and they need to look out for each other." You're like, "What?

[01:02:49]>> What? You want us to hate him or not?"

[01:02:52]Nina, >> he's literally preaching over the radio that all women need to be subjugated.

[01:02:57]And now he's like >> now he's like feminist in the church.

[01:03:03]>> Oh, it was such Yeah, it was such like I was like what? I read it again.

[01:03:08]>> Yeah, it was like women need to know their place but Oh, but don't kill them though. Like we didn't mean to go that far. Um >> Yeah. Yeah.

[01:03:16]>> Like back backtracking it a little but too late.

[01:03:21]>> I guess that makes sense. I mean, if if you think about it like that, like uh where he's confronting somebody who is really literal about this stuff >> and Yeah. And he's like, "Whoa, wait a minute now."

[01:03:33]>> I guess I I that that that's the only thing I could think of.

[01:03:37]>> Yeah, because that Yeah, maybe that Yeah, you're right. You're right.

[01:03:41]Because I was like, "Oh, there's no point of why they would change, but that is the point right there. It's because these women are dying." He's like, "Oh, hold on a second."

[01:03:49]>> Whoops.

[01:03:49]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[01:03:52]So, the killer goes back to the hole to hang out. He's just going to go hang out by his hole, >> and he sees the walking dead girl, >> and he thinks he doesn't recognize her.

[01:04:03]>> This was cool. and she uh beckons him over to the pit and uh he comes over and then she like she's making him sick somehow like you know he's like folding over >> and then she uh pushes him in >> and he he starts to drown.

[01:04:22]>> Yeah.

[01:04:22]>> Did you guys think that he was going to drown at this point?

[01:04:25]>> No.

[01:04:26]>> No. No. I don't think so.

[01:04:27]>> No. Because I thought if he does then what where do we go from here? because there's still like >> 60 pages left in this book. So, >> let me tell you, Tim, this is what I think should have happened.

[01:04:38]>> Okay, go on.

[01:04:40]>> He goes in, he drowns. He dies.

[01:04:43]>> The evil entity goes to a new body.

[01:04:46]>> Now we have >> Oh, okay.

[01:04:50]>> I thought he was going to die.

[01:04:52]>> I was like, this is going to be cool.

[01:04:55]>> But no, he gets out.

[01:04:57]>> And now he's even more angry at women.

[01:05:00]And now he going to kill all of them >> now. I'm going to kill him even more.

[01:05:04]>> Yep.

[01:05:06]>> So, yeah. So, this also points out that the girl is walking around. This dead girl is walking around >> because there was sometimes when he was looking at her, he was like, she'd look normal, just oily, and then other times it would like shift and she'd have like maggots.

[01:05:20]>> Yeah.

[01:05:21]>> I will say that's where my blackberry wine theory totally broke down. So, >> it was a weak theory anyway.

[01:05:28]>> Yeah, I know.

[01:05:31]I thought all the horror I thought all the horror parts were cool.

[01:05:36]>> Yeah, there was some good imagery.

[01:05:38]>> Yeah.

[01:05:41]>> So, then we have another date night and uh we go over again about B's knee hurting.

[01:05:46]>> I know.

[01:05:48]>> She reiterates so much stuff in this book, man.

[01:05:51]>> So, Listen, I thought I I just showed my kids Napoleon Dynamite the other day.

[01:05:56]had never seen it. And the whole time I'm reading this, I'm like, "Oh, he's Uncle Rico."

[01:06:01]>> Constantly like reliving his glory days.

[01:06:05]>> He went back and throw this pig skin over the mountains.

[01:06:07]>> I would have made state. I'd have been a star, you know, just stuck in his high school football days.

[01:06:14]>> Yeah.

[01:06:17]>> Fun fact, Uncle Rico was uh the werewolf in the Monster Squad.

[01:06:21]>> Yes. Mhm. Yep.

[01:06:23]>> That actor. He was also, wasn't he one of the vampires in Fright Night 2?

[01:06:29]>> Oh, I don't know, but I hope so.

[01:06:30]>> I've never seen Fright Night 2.

[01:06:32]>> Fright Night 2, I think, is better than Fright Night.

[01:06:35]>> No kidding. Because I love the original Fright Night. Wow. Okay. Okay.

[01:06:40]>> It's really fun. It's really fun.

[01:06:41]>> Okay.

[01:06:42]>> It is more exciting.

[01:06:45]>> Yeah. I think he's the I forget his scene, but he's one of the main uh bad vampires.

[01:06:51]>> Oh, cool.

[01:06:51]>> Not one of the good vampires.

[01:06:55]Is he wearing the V-neck?

[01:06:59]>> Uh, and then we have the the Price brings his kids over to get the the drawings done and he goes out and looks for the pit and he sees the killer at the pit >> just because he just sees he randomly runs into the killer.

[01:07:16]>> Yeah.

[01:07:17]>> And it's really the most pointless scene in the book.

[01:07:21]>> He says freeze. The guy starts running and he starts shooting at him. He doesn't know who this guy is.

[01:07:27]>> Yeah, he did. I was like just sort of going and I'm like, "Wait, he's shooting at him."

[01:07:31]>> But he's just he's just so geared up.

[01:07:33]He's like, "I'm gonna catch this guy.

[01:07:35]When I catch this guy, all the women in town are going to love me."

[01:07:38]>> Yeah.

[01:07:40]>> Now, to back up for a second, that scene where she's with the kids, Price's kids, the way he talks to them, I'm like, "This guy is just like an authoritarian creep." She's like, "Will the kids sit still long enough so I can sketch them?"

[01:07:53]He's like, "They will if I tell them to," you know, and I was like, and I just thought I was like, "This is good characterization for for even just, you know, this pulpy, you know, this this kind of book." I was like, "Nope, that's what a guy like that would say." You know, I I found that very believable that just that little scene. I was like, "Yep, that tracks."

[01:08:13]>> Yep. He's a douchebag.

[01:08:15]>> He does race back after he realizes the killer's in the area.

[01:08:19]>> Yeah.

[01:08:20]Yeah.

[01:08:20]>> He's worried about his kid.

[01:08:21]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[01:08:24]>> So he picks him up and takes them the kids to the purple cow to get milk.

[01:08:27]>> To the purple cow >> because as we know >> aboutream >> is the greatest thing that's ever existed in the United States of America.

[01:08:36]>> There you go.

[01:08:38]>> That's right there.

[01:08:44]>> Uh so yeah.

[01:08:46]>> Oh. Oh, guess what happens now? Miriam comes over.

[01:08:50]>> Does she when we drink some blackberry wine?

[01:08:57]>> I feel like you're doing a good job, Nick, but I feel like we still were missing blackberry wine sessions in between all these things.

[01:09:06]>> Well, it's it's every other scene. Like we we're mentioning the important stuff.

[01:09:11]The blackberry wine sessions happen in between all the important stuff. There was like more blackberry wine in this book than there is like bourbon and scotch in a hard-boiled detective novel.

[01:09:20]>> Yeah, you guys had to guesstimate. If you guys had to guess, >> how many scenes was were they pouring or drinking wine?

[01:09:27]>> Gosh. Um >> at least a dozen. It just it just wouldn't stop. And you >> Yeah. And it was just rubbing. It was just this odd note and and it just it didn't seem to be integrated into the story. It was just this odd note on top of everything. and took you out. I feel like >> that's part of the reason why I came up with my stupid theory because I'm like, there's got to be a reason why she keeps bringing UP BLACKBERRY WINE.

[01:09:53]>> OH, YEAH. RIGHT. YEAH.

[01:09:55]>> It ain't no dandelion wine. I like that.

[01:09:57]Yeah, >> you're right. You're right.

[01:10:00]>> My theory is that she was drinking blackberry wine while she was writing it.

[01:10:04]>> Maybe >> she's just she need some kind of dialogue or something.

[01:10:11]>> Skipping blackberry wine. There we go.

[01:10:13]Yeah.

[01:10:16]>> Yeah. Yeah. She >> Y >> I bet it's more like 25 times. I think so.

[01:10:22]>> That's Yeah, I would say something like that.

[01:10:24]>> Blackberry wine >> is wine for people who don't like wine.

[01:10:30]>> That's gross.

[01:10:31]>> Yeah.

[01:10:32]>> How much did you pay for that bottle, Jake?

[01:10:34]>> I don't know, 10 or 11 bucks or something.

[01:10:37]>> I mean, that's probably why.

[01:10:40]>> But that's that's middle range. Yeah, >> you know, it wasn't the cheapest one there.

[01:10:47]>> Okay. I don't know why I'm I don't know anything about alcohol. Ignore me. Done.

[01:10:52]>> Yeah. You think blackberry wine makes you see dead bodies? You >> So, yeah. So, we have some blackberry wine and Miriam stays the night and then this is when we get the speech about uh vision quest. She tells that Sunny she needs to go on her vision vision quest and basically find your power animal >> and then Sunny dreams of Dan, but then the >> the dead woman shows up, >> but she has an owl face.

[01:11:25]>> So, the owl is Sunny's spirit animal.

[01:11:30]>> Yep, that was cool.

[01:11:32]>> It was cool.

[01:11:32]>> Owls are cool. Although, there's a there's a part where it says uh and I forget which scene it is. may not be in a different part of the book where it talks about uh the owl takes off and is very noisy. Its wings are flapping and like I've seen owls I've seen owls fly in my backyard and like they make no sound.

[01:11:51]>> They make it's weird to watch this creature. One flew over my head one night and it was weird to see something moving >> and you couldn't hear it. It was like negative space. It was less than no sound.

[01:12:03]>> And they're famous for that. Dows are famous for being silent because they hunt at night and that you know and it was it was really cool. And so that was when the line was like it the owl noisily flapped its wings as it flew off and I'm like no it didn't. That's not >> oh there was a lot there was a lot of things that were just facts that are like at one point Nan talking about cuz her sister >> Don't start that again. Don't start that again.

[01:12:30]>> Because her sister her sisters are uh her sister was killed by a man, of course.

[01:12:36]>> And so when she's kind of going off about that, >> they're like, "Is don't you think it's weird that there's no word? There's we have a word for man haters or for woman haters. We don't have a word for man haters." And I'm like, >> "Right.

[01:12:51]>> Yes, we do." Yeah.

[01:12:54]>> We got way back in the Greek like this.

[01:12:57]>> Yeah.

[01:12:59]just because you didn't know it.

[01:13:04]>> I think that was No, Jake. I think that was the exact point where I texted the group chat and said, "Guys, please make it stop."

[01:13:15]So, they uh let's see. Oh, we get the other call.

[01:13:20]Uh the reverend sitting around going, "When's this guy going to call?" And then he >> and then um he says the dead girls the killer tells him that the dead girls in the pit needed it. And then he hangs up and then the reverend calls the cops and the reverend is like hey the killer's calling my house. Like this is the guy I'm telling you like check it out. You can bug my phone if you want. And the like that's too much work.

[01:13:45]>> We don't have that.

[01:13:48]>> I don't have the resources for that >> to catch a killer. I don't know. I'm going to cut her off your back.

[01:13:54]>> I mean, we want to make this neighborhood safe. Come on. Come on.

[01:13:58]>> Are we going out of order? Is this before or after the reverend goes to the pit?

[01:14:02]>> Am I getting >> Oh, we didn't talk about that. Yeah.

[01:14:05]>> Didn't I didn't I say that part?

[01:14:06]>> Uh-uh.

[01:14:07]>> Oh my.

[01:14:08]>> You talked about the killer going to the pit. We didn't talk about the reverend going to the pit.

[01:14:11]>> Yeah, that's right.

[01:14:12]>> That's right.

[01:14:13]>> Because he Yeah. That's when he starts to suspect what if there are really bodies in the in the pit back there. So, he visits it. He sees one of the victims in the water. Then he he starts to have like a heart attack and flees from the pit, goes straight to the hospital, and then he's in the hospital for a couple days or whatever.

[01:14:32]>> And that's so that's actually kind of important because then they they put him on medicine for his heart >> and then that leads to something later on, >> right? That did set that up.

[01:14:42]>> That was one thing that was set up.

[01:14:44]>> Yeah.

[01:14:46]Yeah.

[01:14:47]with some very uh very subtle breadcrumbs. And by the subtle breadcrumbs, I mean popping a heart pill so he doesn't have a heart attack every other line. Yeah.

[01:15:02]>> And then that night, Miriam is sitting on her back porch enjoying a nice GL glass of blackberry wine.

[01:15:08]>> You don't even need to say it at this point. We just we just assume >> I'm going to say it every time that she says it.

[01:15:15]And the dead woman walks out and Miriam's kind of freaked out. She's like, "Oh no, I gotta keep my cool." And then the woman uh stops and like beckons her uh to come to the pit. And then the dead woman like she hears the whales of the women that have been thrown into the pit.

[01:15:35]>> Yeah.

[01:15:35]>> And then the the dead woman does this weird like interpretive dance >> of like her >> interpretive dance. Yeah. It's like Kate Bush. She kic bushed around the sludgy pit.

[01:15:48]>> I know. And as like ridiculous as you you kind of think that sounds like what?

[01:15:52]She danced. But all I could picture was like a David Lynch movie. That's it.

[01:15:57]Like Yeah. Stark and just weird like some kind of uh like some of that music playing and I was like, "No, that's awesome.

[01:16:04]>> That's creepy."

[01:16:05]>> Yeah.

[01:16:06]>> Yeah. That did jump out at me, too.

[01:16:08]Yeah.

[01:16:10]And then Miriam passes out. And the next morning at Sunny's she tells Sunny. She figures out Oh yeah. She tells Sunny why she figures out that she's been chosen.

[01:16:20]>> Because in her past life >> she was a medicine woman.

[01:16:24]>> Oh yeah.

[01:16:25]>> But not just a medicine woman.

[01:16:28]>> No, she she's been around since the time of Atlantis. Nick.

[01:16:32]>> Yes. Ancient medicine woman in Atlantis.

[01:16:35]Yes.

[01:16:35]>> Yeah.

[01:16:38]Since in before the time Frank Atlantis and the rise of the sons of Arius, >> this woman was exercising spirits.

[01:16:52]>> So why does anyone know why that Miriam says that she has lived all these past lives as a medicine woman? Did I miss something?

[01:17:02]>> Because plot said so. Yeah, she finally remembered that very important thing that may or may not have actually happened.

[01:17:13]>> Wasn't she supposed to be the protector of women? Uh because women create life and men destroy it or something like that. Wasn't that Wasn't that it?

[01:17:24]>> Um Spider grandmother.

[01:17:26]>> Spider.

[01:17:27]All of humanity is just women and children. Children, >> right? Men. Yeah, >> children. You're a child is what she's saying. Cheek.

[01:17:38]>> Yes.

[01:17:39]>> For you. True.

[01:17:42]>> Hey, so >> would a child be drinking Sarah Fior?

[01:17:49]>> Hold on. Sephro said something that this is exactly what I thought too. Have you guys ever read Gian Smith's The Sucking Pit?

[01:17:55]>> No, but I've heard your review and you said that book was awesome.

[01:17:58]>> It is. And this is very similar.

[01:18:01]>> Really? But sucking pit was way more fun.

[01:18:04]>> Okay.

[01:18:05]>> Yeah.

[01:18:09]>> See, see right here. Sucking pit is good. Is >> I haven't read that one. I've read a few guy and smiths, but not but not sucking pit. I don't even think I have a copy of that.

[01:18:23]>> Yeah. And then there's the the sequel is u I think it's The Living Dead.

[01:18:29]>> The Walking Dead. I have that one.

[01:18:30]>> The Walking Dead. Yeah.

[01:18:31]>> Yeah.

[01:18:32]>> That wasn't as good as the original.

[01:18:36]>> So then, yeah, spider grandmother. And then we get the story of the spirit stalker. What the spirit stalker is is he's a ancient entity that uh kills women for their power.

[01:18:46]>> And keep in mind, keep in mind, folks, this is 230 pages into a 300page novel.

[01:18:52]>> Yeah.

[01:18:53]>> We're like right here. You know what?

[01:18:55]Uh, you know, even cool is if all those times that Miriam was like, I think my grandmother told me a story or something about this, like what if she had grandma's book and in grandma's book turned to a page and like, hey, Sunny, this sounds like what we're dealing with.

[01:19:11]>> Yeah. I was like, as much as I hate the let's go to the library and do some research, like that could have happened.

[01:19:18]>> I love a good trip, a research trip in in a horror novel. You need for the super, you need that exposition there.

[01:19:25]It's always gonna be clunky no matter what you do, but it's essential. I think >> I love it. I love it.

[01:19:30]>> They could have done it like she could have made it so that >> she remembered bits and pieces and so it like cumulatively builds on itself and adds pace instead of I don't remember, I don't know, I don't remember, I don't know, and at the very end, okay, I remember everything.

[01:19:43]>> Remember, yeah, >> you're the chosen one. Yeah, >> that would have made me like Miriam's character so much more because then she would be this expert who knows what she's talking about and everyone's just ignoring her. Whereas in the actual book, she doesn't know what she's talking about. She she has a hunch. She remembers something that one that her grandmother told her a long time ago. I can't put my finger on what it is. I'm sure I'll remember. And so it's like >> it's not used to build up suspense. It's say, you know, like you're talking about like it could have been.

[01:20:13]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[01:20:13]>> Um, but it's just it's just there. It's just telling us this and it it's neither here nor there.

[01:20:29]>> Okay. This is where the reverend goes to the house >> that the lady left him. Right. So, this whole >> This was interesting. The whole book they've been talking about how there was this woman who died and left the Reverend money and that's how he got his church started >> and that was kind of it. So now the reverend figures out that this killer is hiding out at this house which is the old woman's house which he actually the reverend owns but it's been closed up because he doesn't want to go there. Why doesn't he want to go there?

[01:21:03]Because he killed the old woman. And I thought it was interesting how it just sort of alludes to how like one minute I forget exactly how it was, but it's like one minute she's alive and the next he just helped her to be with Jesus, >> right?

[01:21:16]>> I thought that was a nice little slight of hand.

[01:21:19]>> Um and you're like, "Oh, okay. Yeah, he killed this old woman and took the, you know, I was like, "Okay, yeah, I I like this."

[01:21:27]>> Yeah, that was cool. And they they even reference again like uh they say something to the effect of and because well I don't want you you can keep going in talking about Nikki. Uh but yeah they talk about how she looked like she was smothered but >> yeah. Yep.

[01:21:47]>> I thought that they was insinuating that it was a mercy kill like that she was really sick and dead and he was like helping her. But maybe he's justifying it in his head.

[01:22:00]>> I don't know. I >> I think he was justifying because he didn't that's why he didn't want to like sell the place and stuff because he didn't want people maybe finding clues or something. I don't know.

[01:22:09]>> That's how I took it. Yeah. Yep.

[01:22:12]>> But again, the way it was sort of done kind of subtly. Uh I I I I was at that late stage in the book, I was like, "Oh, this is a interesting little detail."

[01:22:21]Mhm.

[01:22:22]>> So, the reverend goes inside and he's looking for this killer and he goes upstairs into the woman's bedroom, which he doesn't want to go to, but it's the room that he goes right to and he opens the door and she's laying there in the bed, her >> and you know, he's like, "Oh my god."

[01:22:38]And then she like gets up, starts walking towards him, >> coming towards him. Yep.

[01:22:42]>> Like Yeah. Like the shining of the old lady reaching for him.

[01:22:47]>> Yep. and he uh you know he has a he has a heart attack and then he starts talking. I forget how it happens but the old woman turns into the killer.

[01:22:59]>> Mhm.

[01:23:00]>> Well, I think it's I think it's implied that like he goes into the bedroom, the killer is in the bed because as we know the killer has been using this house, >> right? I think he sees the killer in the bed, but the again I think it's implying that this this reverend has a super guilty conscience because he did he did straight up murder this woman. I don't think it was necessarily a mercy killing. I think he was like, "Well, she's going to die anyway. I'd like her property." So, >> she owns two oil wells and so that's what those horny horny >> I like those oil wells a whole lot.

[01:23:37]those drills, man.

[01:23:40]>> So, yeah, he's got this guilty conscience. And so, I think when he goes in looking for the killer, that's, you know, that's the that's in the forefront of his brain, which is the place where I killed this woman. And so, when he sees someone in the bed, he's not seeing the killer. He's not seeing who it really is. He's seeing that dead woman that he smothered in her bed all those years ago, coming after him. And then it's only then where you know he's passed out on the floor groping for his his medication having a heart attack >> and then it you know flashback to reality it's the killer and now he's leaning over a dead reverend. So >> yeah interesting.

[01:24:13]>> Yes, Chris it is an interestingly complicated dumb book.

[01:24:17]>> Yeah.

[01:24:18]>> No, that's how I took it. You're you're right. Yeah. And and and I like that.

[01:24:22]But the way it wasn't just hammered at the reader Yeah. Yep.

[01:24:28]So, this really upsets the killer.

[01:24:31]>> Those damn women.

[01:24:33]>> They told his reverend.

[01:24:34]>> Now it's war.

[01:24:35]>> Now it's war. So, uh, Price, the cop, is supposed to be watching the >> the pit. He's been assigned to keep an eye on the pit, which they should have been doing in the first place.

[01:24:49]Bodies have to be thrown into this thing before they're like, maybe we should keep an eye on this.

[01:24:53]>> Rob, you need to clean it up down there in the chat.

[01:25:03]Damn it, Rob. Look what you did.

[01:25:05]>> So, what's Price doing at the oil well?

[01:25:08]>> Okay, so yeah, Price brings along a lady because he's got to kill time.

[01:25:11]>> Of course he does.

[01:25:13]>> And uh she's teasing. Yeah, >> he runs off.

[01:25:15]>> He's such a stud.

[01:25:17]>> Yeah.

[01:25:17]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[01:25:20]>> He loves women. He doesn't hate them. He loves them, Alex.

[01:25:23]>> So true. He wants his He wants his Amazon lady to uh >> uh like dominate him.

[01:25:32]>> Yeah, that's the thing that was it is it Nan that says that like >> Yes, she does. She justif at least he at least he loved women. He didn't hate them. I'm like what?

[01:25:43]>> That's what I'm saying. This thing is all over the place.

[01:25:47]>> Yeah, I forgot about that >> because that guy was is almost as big a creep as the cat. I mean, you know, he I thought he was there to, you know, uh he's the cop, but he's a creep, too, you know.

[01:25:59]>> Yeah. He was just to enforce the idea that all men suck, basically.

[01:26:03]>> Right. Right. So, at the end there's this >> apart from Billy Joe, of course.

[01:26:06]>> Right. Yeah.

[01:26:08]>> But at the end there's this redemptive thought about it. I'm like, that that's a false note. That that doesn't work.

[01:26:13]>> From the most Yeah. From the most hardline character, too.

[01:26:16]>> Right.

[01:26:17]>> I'm telling you. I'm telling you. So, uh, yeah. So, she teases, uh, Price and she goes running naked through the woods towards the oil pit, of course, and Price runs out without his gun and then there's the killer.

[01:26:33]>> Well, it's cuz they're fooling around the car and she pulls his gun out.

[01:26:36]Didn't she start licking it or something?

[01:26:37]>> Starts licking it. Yeah.

[01:26:45]>> So, it falls down between the seats. So she basically the woman emasculated him and left him wide open to attack from the killer. So >> So it's so subtle. Nina, you're so good at this girl.

[01:27:01]Ah.

[01:27:04]>> Um, so yeah, there's the killer and then he kills he kills Price and then um starts to kill the woman. But then we flip over to Nan and Sheriff who are at the at the at the house and they find the reverend dead and they're like, "Oh no, we need to get to the pit." And there they find that the killer is still choking the woman.

[01:27:26]And Nan goes to call for help while the sheriff goes to stop the killer.

[01:27:32]>> And but the killer's too fast. And here is the first hint of supernatural.

[01:27:36]>> Mhm.

[01:27:36]>> Right. For real.

[01:27:38]>> So he's got super speed and he knocks the gun out of the sheriff's hand. He breaks his arm. Then they wrestle and he uh killer slashes his stomach, but he's still alive.

[01:27:48]And then we flip over to Sunny with uh Billy Joe and Miriam. And then they I don't know, they do their thing. I kind of like was like I'm done. So I don't have as detail here. I got mumbo jumbo Miriam Sunny ends like they fight her versus the killer and >> well because she at this point she is imbued with the power of all of her past lives and yada yada. But this is a full moon and this is the point where Spirit Stalker is strong as most, you know, he's the most strong.

[01:28:23]>> And so, yeah, now they're these two supernatural titans attacking in the woods and then Billy Joe's there with his sawoff shotgun and Miriam's falling along with her wine and uh and Sage.

[01:28:37]>> Yes, the mumbo jumbo is what I said.

[01:28:41]>> Yeah.

[01:28:42]>> And then um Yeah. And then Sunny ends up stabbing him and then the book's over.

[01:28:48]>> I was scrolling literally and I was like, "Oh, because did that happen to you?" Because it said 323 pages or whatever and I'd been counting down >> and and I was like, "Okay, there's going to be like one last thing and then and then it was done."

[01:29:02]>> It was done.

[01:29:02]>> Yeah. I couldn't believe the death was that antilimactic. Yeah. It was really disappointing.

[01:29:08]>> Yeah.

[01:29:11]>> And that was it. And that was it. That was it.

[01:29:14]>> We I We didn't even get like a You know, she goes back to Dallas and divorces Dan, stands up to him. None of that.

[01:29:22]>> Well, she says she will, Nick. Is Isn't that enough for you?

[01:29:25]>> She just fantasizes about it.

[01:29:28]>> I wish she would have fantasized about killing him.

[01:29:30]>> Somebody should have gone Somebody should have gone back and killed him and that should have been the last chapter, >> right? Like two paragraphs and Billy show Billy Joe shows up with a shotgun and shoots Dan in the head.

[01:29:40]>> Yeah, something like that. Funny dude show up with that Bowie knife.

[01:29:44]>> Oh, there we go.

[01:29:45]>> In his closet at night.

[01:29:47]>> Yeah. Yeah. But something like he opens the door and I don't know, it's the oily woman or the owl or something.

[01:29:54]>> Yeah. And he gets >> lands on him, stabs him with his >> Yeah. Yeah. And then and he'd been like, "Wait, what?" And then that's the end, you know? I think that would that would have been pretty cool.

[01:30:07]>> Bye, Chris.

[01:30:09]>> Bye.

[01:30:10]>> Bye. Thanks for doing it.

[01:30:11]>> Hold on. Are you saying Jake, Tim, and Nick, you're fine. Or just Nick, you're fine.

[01:30:17]Just >> Is he Is he insulting all three ees or just just the host?

[01:30:21]>> I think all three of us.

[01:30:23]>> That checks out.

[01:30:25]>> I want to know if if Nan's contact in New York except Facebook, >> right? Yeah, that's right. We didn't really get into portfolios.

[01:30:33]>> Yeah.

[01:30:34]>> She was just stringing her along.

[01:30:37]>> Money.

[01:30:37]>> Oh my god. Keith, how much is $14 Canadian? What are you doing?

[01:30:45]>> Don't do that. Don't do that. Keith, you keep that.

[01:30:49]>> Well, we have final thoughts on this. I mean, I said I've read way worse books, but I can't say that this was like a mustread or was really very good or anything. Uh, >> three.

[01:31:06]Yeah, I think I gave it three stars out of five. Like I thought it had some interesting ideas, some interesting visuals.

[01:31:15]>> I did think there was some good horror imagery in there.

[01:31:17]>> Yeah.

[01:31:18]>> And I think Yeah, I think the uh like the the heavy topics that it dealt with, >> you know, I applaud that and I applaud all the girl power and stuff.

[01:31:28]>> Yeah. Yeah, that was cool. It was just a bit all over the place and not enough well done enough to tie it all together maybe. Um >> Yeah, it was too long. So all those threads you they get they get lost in there. Yeah.

[01:31:42]>> And then the the whole problematic white savior thing obviously >> Oh yeah >> whatever.

[01:31:56]>> I feel you. I feel you.

[01:31:59]So, okay.

[01:32:00]>> Tim, what are your thoughts?

[01:32:02]>> Oh, I'm I'm gonna be honest. I'll I'll go way more in I don't know. I don't know even know if I want to do like a review of this book. Um I'm going to be honest. I hated this thing. As far as the books we reviewed on EB so far, this is sitting like just a hair above the Reassembled Man for me.

[01:32:22]>> Dude, Reassembled Man was way better than this.

[01:32:25]>> Was it though? No.

[01:32:29]H it just if I I'm serious. If I had to have one more conversation about why men suck paired with blackberry wine, I was going to tear something in half and just like that's the thing. I couldn't physically throw the book across the room because that would entail throwing my phone across the room and I didn't want to do that. So >> yeah.

[01:32:54]>> So you liked it?

[01:32:56]Oh, I loved it, Nick.

[01:32:59]It's going going going in the top 10 for sure.

[01:33:03]>> I was very frustrated with it reading through it and then once I got to the end, I was like, I don't know, man. I when I think when I was writing this down because you know when you do this stuff, you got to really like analyze it and stuff.

[01:33:19]>> Yeah.

[01:33:20]And when I was just reading it, as I was reading it like a like you would anybody any like a reader, it was like annoying.

[01:33:28]But the more I looked at it and I was like, well, you know what? Actually, this part was really cool and this part was really cool.

[01:33:34]>> Like it just a you know, a couple weeks and it's not it's not as bad as I guess the reading experience, which sounds terrible, you know, like just reading it for enjoyment. If I had just picked this up on my own and read it on my own, I don't know how much if I would have finished it or if I skimmed through, but I don't think I would have like written up a review for too much horror fiction, you know? It's not really something like when I'm be like, "Here's another book to not read." Yeah.

[01:34:06]I feel like that sometimes because I've got so many books I be reading them and there's books I've read and I'm like, I'm not even going to bother bother posting a review. Um, it's just sort of, you know, um, so >> do you do but do you do reviews for really bad ones or you just the middle ground is the one?

[01:34:23]>> No. Uh, sometimes you have the middle ground. Sometimes I'll just be like I might do a capsule review of like, you know, I know there for a while like when COVID first hit and I'm just reading stuff and I was reading like three or four mediocre books. I I started doing just like capsule reviews. Um, but like if I'm going to do a big long review, it it it either should be really good or like really bad, you know, where I can really like it's bad for so many different reasons. Um, and it's bad in a way that illustrates what's uh wrong, not what's wrong with the genre, but what's wrong with how people understand horror. You know, that kind of thing.

[01:34:58]Like there's something you can learn from how bad it is. Uh, but this book it was just we already know this too much too much telling, too long. Characters are vague and indistinct and the supernatural takes way too long to show up.

[01:35:12]>> Yeah.

[01:35:14]>> Yeah, I agree with all that. I think um she definitely had an agenda with this book. Um, >> and which is I I can be fine. It can be fine to say things with your book and like I I think I agree with you, Alex.

[01:35:27]Like I like the message especially in the 80s. Like that's that's great.

[01:35:30]>> Yeah.

[01:35:30]>> Yeah.

[01:35:31]>> But it was it was a cudel.

[01:35:34]>> It was >> she just every scene was just >> bang beating this man or bad. And the the the part where Nan starts having nightmares when it's just horrible man doing terrible thing to woman. Horrible man doing over.

[01:35:47]>> I thought we were going to get more of that >> to the point to the point that I'm just like I just read three pages of just women getting abused by monsters and you know what I mean? And so it it was just so heavy-handed. felt like for every boring scene around the coffee around Blackberry wine man-hating then there was a scene that I thought was fun and so for me it kind of I don't know kind of balanced itself out I think because it is such a fast read too that I just >> that is the thing like it it's >> it's fine it was it had some fun moments would I recommend it to anybody no but I didn't hate it >> yeah Yeah, >> there we go.

[01:36:28]>> Right.

[01:36:30]>> Jay knows what's up.

[01:36:36]>> Okay. Are you guys >> I think I think we chewed this one up.

[01:36:44]>> Well, that's cool. Well, I mean, what else you guys got going on? Alex, what are you doing? What do you got going on next?

[01:36:50]>> Oh, wow. What am I doing? Um, >> surprise. I'm an eight. If anyone >> I do want to read Rob Pine Max at some point and and see if I think it's as terrible as Will did. Um >> Yeah, I would love to. Yeah. Yeah. Read it. I want to see what you think. Yeah.

[01:37:06]Cool. Cool.

[01:37:07]>> I'll get to it soon. But yeah, I'm in the in the thick of Jallow July right now. So, um I'm actually reading that Nio Marsh book that you just recently read, Nick, the Death and Ecstasy. Um yeah, I'm about halfway through and yeah, it's it's pretty fun. It's just a kind of classic murder mystery kind of thing. Very dialogueheavy.

[01:37:23]Um, but yeah, it's good. And then yeah, just watching lots of Jello films. And then uh yeah, what else? I don't know.

[01:37:32]Actually, I'm going to be filming a book haul tomorrow. I just remembered I've got this big stack of books like right here just out of the frame. So that's my imminent future.

[01:37:43]>> That's good. I've I really have been enjoying when you do the author spotlights.

[01:37:48]>> Oh, thank you. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I need to uh I don't have one for this month, spoiler. So, maybe maybe I can get that back on track next month. We'll see.

[01:37:59]>> It's a It's a lot of work.

[01:38:01]>> Yeah.

[01:38:01]>> I don't think people realize how much work it is to look all that stuff up and >> Oh, yeah.

[01:38:05]>> write it all out.

[01:38:06]>> Oh, yeah.

[01:38:07]>> Yeah.

[01:38:08]>> Yeah. It's not just looking at Wikipedia. It's >> It's hours hours and hours.

[01:38:14]>> Even just adding in pictures into a video takes flipping forever. So, yeah.

[01:38:20]Mhm.

[01:38:24]>> Oh, >> hey.

[01:38:26]>> Thank you.

[01:38:28]>> We love you, too.

[01:38:34]>> That would have been a real 80s throwback. Bartles and James. Wow.

[01:38:38]>> Sephro wants to know if you write if you still write alleys.

[01:38:42]>> Um, not if not nearly as much as I would like. inside barely at all. Um, yeah, there's just never enough time. Uh, you know, working full-time, doing other things, and then, yeah, writing is kind of one of those things for like, uh, yeah, I have a lot of ideas and things I would like to write, but having the time to sit down and then actually being being in the right headsp space to do anything about it is kind of rarely happens for me, unfortunately. So, so yeah, you'll just have to read my ghost dogging story again.

[01:39:21]>> What was that in?

[01:39:22]>> Um, which one was that in? Um, I think that was in Garbology, the the Garb August anthology.

[01:39:33]>> There's been two of those, right? Was it in the first one?

[01:39:36]>> I think it was in Yeah, I think it was the first one. I don't know if it's even still available anymore. Probably not.

[01:39:41]These things are just fly by night and if you don't get it, you miss it. Um, but yeah, anyway, I don't think you're missing out. At least as far as my story is concerned. So, oh my god, >> that's awesome. What about What about you? Well, what do you got going on, man?

[01:40:00]>> Um, we have Velcas has one more the last Paperback from Hell reprint, which I will be doing the intro for. Um, uh, The Happy Man by Eric C. Higgs. Uh, so that deadline is like whenever, you know. Um, and then, uh, the other, uh, publisher I've been doing intros for is Fathom Press.

[01:40:25]>> Um, and I just, uh, turned in my intro for Joyide by Steven Cry, which will be reprinted is is coming maybe next month or something. I think they've already done pre-orders. Um, and that is that book, which is basically like slasher, uh, in novel form, uh, the original paperback, is super rare. So, a lot of people are excited about, excuse me, uh, super excited about being able to get a copy of this and read it. And that is, uh, that is a pretty cool, fun book. Um, and yeah, so, Fathom Press is, uh, the editor sent me a nice list and I sent him a list of of stuff to look into. Um, but he sent me a nice list of some stuff he's looking to get published. Um, different books from what Valancor has done. So, we're still trying and, you know, to get more of these books out there in affordable uh, affordable uh, editions.

[01:41:21]>> Yeah, that's cool. That joy ride is like um, it's actually, you know, I mean, obviously you've read it, but to anyone who hasn't, I haven't. I'm one of them.

[01:41:30]But it's u supposed to actually be worth the hype. like it's actually like >> I think so. Yeah, >> I I read it and I thought it was great.

[01:41:38]So, >> yeah. And and so I looked into the um the author and because originally I thought it was a maybe a screenplay turned into a novel like what Michael McDow did with his first book, The Amulet. Uh but it was not. It was not.

[01:41:53]Um which I thought was interesting. It was just a book that author wanted to see if he could write this kind of book.

[01:41:59]Um, so yeah, sorry about that in my intro, but uh, yeah, people are are psyched for this and and they should be.

[01:42:07]>> Yeah, that's cool.

[01:42:08]>> Nice.

[01:42:08]>> I am looking forward to it.

[01:42:12]>> All right, guys. Do you want to talk about what you got going on there?

[01:42:15]Little little Jake, little Tim.

[01:42:18]>> Yeah.

[01:42:20]>> Well, should we uh I know we brought up a little bit earlier, but she gave more details about the next episode of EES.

[01:42:27]>> Yeah, sure. So again, for those who missed it at the beginning, we'll be reading reading Warrior Witch of Hell by Aza Drake, aka the husband of uh of Nina Robert. Uh >> look at it. It's automatically better than what we just read.

[01:42:45]>> Calm down.

[01:42:46]>> You pig. She's right.

[01:42:48]>> I got all three. Huh?

[01:42:49]>> Oh, nice.

[01:42:50]>> I got all three, too. I I got I need to thank Nick for that because he gave me the first two books and then another Nick Book Fiend Nick sent me the third one. So, >> I gotta thank both of Nicks for that.

[01:43:00]Um, yes, we will be reading that one.

[01:43:03]That stream will be on my channel.

[01:43:05]That's going to be on August 22nd at 700 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. And we have a very, very special guest joining us.

[01:43:14]Uh, I don't know if you guys know about this dude. Um, Brian from Bad Taste Books. I don't I'm not sure what to think about this guy, but you know, he's he's joining us. It should be an interesting conversation.

[01:43:29]Honestly, I just wanted to have a nice a a nice easy pick where I could be like, "Hey, can we just have a bunch of my friends reading a book that doesn't I don't know absolutely destroy my brain."

[01:43:44]>> You don't know that. It might be terrible.

[01:43:46]>> It might be bad.

[01:43:47]>> It might be considering that it's by the husband of the author who destroyed my brain with this book. But, uh, it's it's I mean, we just talked about this inspired a Bathie song. So, it can't be that bad, right? Right.

[01:44:03]>> Well, Bath is in the other book, The Raw Pain Max.

[01:44:06]>> Oh, no.

[01:44:07]>> And it's And I don't know how they messed how he messed that up.

[01:44:14]>> Well, that's what we're going to be doing. Secret Fire Books, August 22nd.

[01:44:19]Brian's going to be on the show.

[01:44:21]>> Well, you made a big mistake, Tim. You should have picked a book that was, you know, inspired Striper to write a song.

[01:44:27]Oh, there we go. The anti-warrior witch of hell.

[01:44:34]>> That that's got to exist somewhere. You have to look that up now. Uh, but afterwards, well, I just started this morning, but I'm currently reading the novelization of The Sword and the Sorcerer, 1982, because after this book, I was like, I need to something cheesy and action-packed and browbeatingly, chest beatingly masculine. So, yeah, it's it's it's goofy. It's just like the movie so far. We'll see if it turns out being any good, but yeah, that's what I'm reading right now.

[01:45:09]Cool. Jake, anything?

[01:45:11]>> No. Just reviewing books, reading short stories.

[01:45:17]That's it.

[01:45:19]>> I'm reading a book called Shark Fighter by Lynn Levenson, >> right?

[01:45:24]>> You've told us.

[01:45:26]>> And it is >> very jealous.

[01:45:27]>> This guy who kills sharks for a living to sell them to the restaurants, but he loves killing sharks. It's like he just does it for fun, right? And I was like I thought it was really funny because the book that we just read like I agree with everything that they're saying like all the themes and all that and I was like yes this is great but I no I'm reading this book about this shark killer vegan person. He's killing sharks for fun and I'm like I love this.

[01:46:02]>> Yeah.

[01:46:04]You know, >> do you feel dirty? Do you feel evil after you read this, Nick?

[01:46:08]>> It just goes to show you that no matter what your intentions are, you have to write that book. Well, >> yeah. You know, it really matters. It doesn't matter what the subject is. It really matter. You got to write.

[01:46:21]>> You got to believe it. You got to believe it.

[01:46:24]>> So, uh, yeah, that's it.

[01:46:26]>> All right, guys. This was awesome. Yeah, it was fun.

[01:46:29]>> Yeah. Thank you. This has been really fun.

[01:46:32]Yeah, we've been waiting to have you guys on for a long time.

[01:46:35]>> Oh, do it again. But just please, God, can we get Let's >> do something with some real, you know, we really enjoy.

[01:46:45]We want monsters and blood and guts and >> Come on. This had three pages of horror.

[01:46:51]What are you talking about?

[01:46:55]>> All right, I'm going to turn it off.

[01:46:56]>> Thanks, guys. Watching.

[01:46:58]>> All right, have a great night. All right. Bye, guys. Take care.