In combat psychology, there is a critical distinction between the will to fight and the belief that you will win. These are separate psychological states that do not necessarily correlate. A fighter can be willing to fight without believing they will win, or believe they will win without being willing to fight. The speaker argues that the jiu-jitsu community often confuses these concepts, whereas boxing practitioners better understand that the will to fight does not require the belief you will win. This distinction is important because fighters who are too attached to the outcome tend to perform poorly due to stress and tension, while those who can fight freely regardless of the result perform better.
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Squeeze The Neck Podcast Episode 221 - Martial Artist, Greazy GrapplerAñadido:
All right. Boom. We're back. Squeeze the neck podcast with not my new mate, my old mate. The greasy grappler. Bos, thanks for doing this, mate.
>> Good to be back for you, Ollie, man.
>> Wait, we put the bat signal up recently, didn't you? Told me we got to do this again. We've been talking about it for a long time. We're back now. So, Greasy Grappler or the Greasy Grappler.
>> Either, man.
>> Either either. Don't really matter.
Everyone knows if you know, you don't know, whatever. All that kind of stuff.
But mate, you we spoke rec just before we started this. You talking about making a transition from BJJ to MMA, which we'll come to. You're studying psychology now, so there's a lot to talk about. Last time we was here, you was a white belt still for starters. You was we was talking about lots of different things. You won't butcher it. Go and watch the episode. I'll put the link below. But mate, tell us what's going on with you.
>> Basically, well, let's start off. First off, like I won a competition not long after, like my first gold medal, like maybe a month or two after this episode.
So, that was a a big plus. Also, I started making the online cuz before I was just posting like uh text on my story. I'm I'm sure you you know about the the jiu-jitsu's top waffle all the videos I make. I started that soon after and actually I was actually literally just thinking about while I was waiting for Ollie to come that the episode probably was a big part in how I made that transition to the more >> uh visual content.
>> Mhm.
>> And uh yeah, I had a super fight which I lost against Cory Lama. Excellent experience.
I started I got my blue belt of course that was a milestone cuz I've been training for 4 years. back. I've been at I was at Grapp Collective for 2 years before I got my blue belt training full-time, six, five, six days a week.
Max told me he's holding me back. Like he's let me know that people less skilled than me have been promoted before me because he wanted me to cuz I was a competitor. I was competing full time. Like people this Max Brickson give you a blue bell.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Literally like the last two years 202 uh 4 and 2025 I was competing like what almost every month.
>> Yeah. Okay.
>> Yeah. So yeah, loads of experience. I've had, I don't know, 50, 60 matches in BJJ. I don't know, 20 something. I've lost count now, but that's why he was holding me back. So yeah, I'm actually glad that I won a competition before I got my blue belt cuz the amount of time I put into grappling, I don't want to just be a generic blue belt.
>> Yeah, I got you. Blue belt's a funny one, too. Is it? It's such a wide, it's the biggest gap in belts, isn't it, in terms of like ability? I've said everyone, you know, that does grappling will know like if you get your blue belt, some I was a blue belt for over 5 years. Do you know what I'm saying? So like training consistently. So in that time like do you know what I mean?
However good I was or wasn't you're improving over 5 years you know what I mean? So it's a it's a big difference but when I saw you last was what was it about a year ago we say right?
>> Yeah. No yeah about a year and a month ago something like that.
>> And you put a lot of weight on since as well. You said you're getting big. Is this this purpose?
>> It honestly because I started I'm I'm I'm happy it's happened.
>> Cheers mate. No. You're all right mate.
Yeah you're good. You're good. You're good. Thank you. Thank you. That's what I say.
>> Nice. Thanks. That's for me. He's famous. Say hello to him now. Get [laughter] >> me. That's me. Go, man.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh, what was I getting at? The blue belt. The transition.
Basically, like, uh, all this time I put in, I'm glad that I got a blue belt as a reflection of that long journey.
>> Okay.
>> Because this has been, you know, I put a lot into it.
>> Well, I'm a big believer as well. It's better to get it later rather than early. Do you know what I'm saying?
Like, if you get if you get a blue belt and you're kind of like, >> it's not as good as getting it and like you're over ready for it. Do you know what I mean?
>> That's a good point you made right there. The blue belt is supposed to be a marker that you've completed the fundamentals.
>> If the fun, as we all know, if the fundamentals are weak, like a building, if the foundation's weak, it's going to fall apart later on. Like you see a lot of black belts, you know, they might not want to admit, they're probably thinking later on, "Oh, I wish I worked on my wrestling earlier." Cuz now I'm a white belt at wrestling with a with a black belt. black belt in other aspects of grappling jiu-jitsu, but my standups white belt level like and it takes a lot of humility to re to return to the fundamentals >> and go through that. So, I'd rather have a strong foundation.
>> Yeah. And what's the typical do you train in different arts as well or just jiu-jitsu at the moment?
>> Muay Thai. I've been in Muay Thai cuz I want to get some pure grappling, not pure from pure striking down before I go into MMA.
>> Gotcha. But yeah, so I'll say jiu-jitsu and Muay Thai are the two ones I've done the most of.
>> And how about other grappling arts?
Interest in wrestling, judo, all that kind of stuff.
>> I've done wrestling. I've done bit I've been to Prometheus. How many wrestling classes have I done?
>> Maybe two. Maybe two or three.
>> Early stages.
>> Yeah, I've lost count of how many Muay Thai classes I've done by now.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> I've done maybe two boxing. So yeah, the vast majority jiu-jitsu.
>> I've got a few Muay Thai. Like I've been through a foundations curriculum with Muay Thai a few times now. So >> nice. I know the I'm not saying I'm good at it, but >> I've seen the alphabet.
>> But you want to fight MMA this year, you said. So like, you know, this is, you know, time's ticking in it. Like if you're gonna get in there this year, you you're you looking to what? Just have a fight and that's done with it or you you're looking to have an MMA career?
>> I'm looking to go as far as >> I'm Yeah, I'm looking to I'm definitely looking to do this longterm like >> Yeah, you are. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And with like going forward now, you said your jiu-jitsu has been down a bit this month because you've been studying psychology. Yeah. Which we'll get into in a sec. like what what's the theory with psychology before we dive into what it's like and whatnot. What was the thinking behind doing psychology? Is that a side gig or is that to help your martial arts?
>> Martial arts honestly like even the last episode.
>> Yeah, >> I'm talking about the episode we did. If you should watch it, I recommend watching it. You don't have to. I'm not going to choke you if you don't watch it.
>> It's coming round if you don't watch it.
You got to watch it. He said it now.
>> I mean, [laughter] no, I mean I'll try to put it politely, but you know, >> watch the episode.
>> Yeah. Watch the damn episode. Yeah.
Yeah. People actually messaged me saying, you know, this is the deepest in psychology we've had on the podcast.
>> Nice. Brilliant.
>> And like I was thinking a lot of like, you know, I talk about the wolf, which I'll get into more in depth than before cuz obviously I've I'm studying I'm I've actually like studied stuff theoretically now.
I thought, you know what, what's the what's the point? Take Charles Allen Price, who's who's one of, if not the top uh figure for for strength and conditioning jiu-jitsu. He's got actual like a background.
If I want to be talking about the psychology of combat, not just jiu-jitsu as, you know, MMA, self-defense, [snorts] just combat in general, don't do don't I need need to become an expert? Like, >> why didn't you start younger? Because you said you're 29 now, right? So, you you wasn't being a martial artist as a kid. Like, where did it come from? How comes you got into martial arts late?
>> Very good question. I would say for a long time I wasn't like >> I can't say I didn't believe in it in a sense of like I was like well we have to have a knife like like a lot of people just say that stuff. I guess that's was kind of my thinking for a long time cuz as mentioned on the previous podcast I come from an era where there's a lot of knife crime and all this crazy stuff where people jump you in groups of 510.
I think what's what's the point when there's weapons? I probably had that mindset but then like with the jock a willing argument about you can't run away from someone gripping you. Yeah, sure.
>> Again, reiterate what said before.
Well-known tactic, grab and stab.
>> Maybe there is. That's why I start to think >> maybe there is some merit to learning unarmed skills.
>> And then the deeper I went into it, I realized that wait a minute, there's actually uh which we'll get this topic I'll get into more detail. that d that dichotomy or maybe now since we're on it and we'll get get to the other stuff that I want to think about talk about after that dichotomy that people make up between armed and unarmed fighting doesn't exist >> because if you check if you study that history >> the knights did wrestling the samurai did jiu-jitsu >> it's known that unarmed skills only make you better with at least close range weapons and obviously you know if you can't get to your weapon in in time you've got your unarmed skills. Like I posted a lot of clips on Instagram about like the one that's coming to mind is a is a police officer and a criminal fighting for control over a gun and the police officer blew on jiu-jitsu.
>> Okay.
>> And it's like look look at this. You say weapons make unarmed skills useless.
Look at this. The police officer was able to deny the criminal getting to his gun and he got to his own via his grappling skills. So that whole weapons cancel out hand to hand, that's a myth.
>> I'm a big believer as well that the way you put things together is is the magic in it because there's lots of jiu-jitsu like in terms of sports jiu-jitsu that leave you in vulnerable positions, right? We all know that there's certain positions where you're laying underneath someone, your head's on offer, um which you don't, you know, beat a dead horse.
I've said this many times on here, but it's you take what you can. So I'm a big believer in sort of like learning the art for the art's sake and taking from it what you want. Recently I got really heavily into judo. I've got into >> Congratulations.
>> Thank you very much. I appreciate that.
Nice. Um and Kauashian karate I've started taking up for now obviously listen all these arts have got flaws in them if you're talking about MMA. But at the same time if you can hone in on the bits that that work and make them your own and put them with the other piece.
To me that's how you get a lot better versus sometimes I think people start MMA >> and it where it's too vast. Do you see where I'm coming from? Like they kind of get okay at a lot of different things but not really good at anything. So they've got no area to get someone to where it's like they're safe. Do you see where I'm coming from? And I think if you can be coming from a certain background like if you Kabib's always the example I think we spoke about Kabib before, right? Is is a great example. So strong in his area that when he starts tidying up the other things and he's got the ability to get people where he needs that foundation completely dominate, which I believe in. You know, different people have got different opinions, but I think it's interesting like when you're going for like obviously the mind side of things with the psychology, but tell us about that, man. Like what's it like? How does that how does that work?
Take us through like day one and like what you're looking to get from it. I'm looking to my goal is to construct many things. Remember what I've talked about inspiring people self-defense and whatnot. And honestly, of there's always there's a lot there's obviously there's always more you can do, but I feel like that's kind of in the bag that's going to happen. Like I've got to post a lot of highlight reels. People always telling me your reels are so sick. Like I feel like I've got the the show of like this is what I >> want to cut you off. But I think you do it right because it's like you kind of show it and talk about it versus like it's not overly opinionated. You see where I'm coming from? Whereas some people say you do this, grab this part, do this.
>> Whereas the way you do it is kind of you tell me what you're going for. But for me, when I watch it, it's like you're sort of showing it if that makes sense.
And like giving a little sort of play by play. Do you see what I'm coming from?
>> Yeah. Talking about the rules I >> post. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. It's like you're telling what's going on, not sort of like >> over putting it in a box of what you think and sort of opinion. Did you see where I'm coming from?
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Now I'm thinking I'm still going to do that stuff, but I feel like I've got the fundamentals of that down. I talk about I want an aesthetic.
>> Yeah.
>> I feel like I've already got a professional editor. Shout out Brand Loves BJJ, the American guy. He made me those two. That one I sent you with Chris Eubank the voice on it. Yeah.
>> He made me another one.
>> Like shout out him. So yeah, I'm at a level where >> I feel like my aesthetics are on point.
It's just going to get better for now. I need to one thing I want to work on now regarding the psychology is I want to start designing psychological exercises >> for self-defense.
>> Okay, >> which are essentially I say that they're essentially training exercises but of a particular emphasis on self-defense.
Just to bring up something I recently trained with uh Mick Coupe. He's an ex Army guy.
>> What's your name? Mick what?
>> Mick Coupe.
>> Coup. Okay.
>> Yes.
>> Shout out Mick Coupe. I did his foundations course which is a 4 day eight hour uh eight hours each course so 32 hours in total and his knife management course which is 5 hours five so five day uh hour 10 hours 5 hours each day and I posted the certificates for both on uh Instagram basically his his whole thing is like this okay combat sports give you excellent skills no doubt but there are things missing that combat sports don't address. Like for example, the sudden crash of an attack, the mind [ __ ] ul boom boom boom. You could be that. A lot of people don't to admit it, but just as weapons can mitigate a skill advantage. Multiple attackers can mitigate a skill advantage. Size can mitigate a skill advantage. A lot of people don't address the fact that the element of surprise can also mitigate a skill advantage. Just to name one thing, that's the one thing you I really took away from this course.
that we really need to he calls them shock starts. Like for example, maybe you close your eyes >> and I push you or you start against the wall and I or you start spinning around with your eyes closed and then bam, someone pushes you. like there's all he has many other ways of psychologically simulating that mind [ __ ] of and I was like you know what I need to start designing these psych I need to start designing psychological exercise like this too take a lot of inspiration from Mick that's why I mentioned him and I definitely will be using a lot of his stuff >> that's interesting because I've done have you ever done any crab magar stuff by any chance >> no but there was a crab magar instructor and mix you know he he he's a lot of critique speaks to crav like >> he's basically trying to give a better what crab macar trying to do he's trying to >> so the reason I say cra m I've got a training partner does he's brown bit jitsu as well um very high level crab ma instructor and now before I'd met him I wouldn't have thought much of crab malar not that I thought it wasn't relevant but I would have thought kind of like you know whatever I' done little bits and pieces here and there but when after meeting him the way he works sorry mate he was um the way he does it very realistic as I say brown jitsu does a lot of boxing does a But it's all realistic. Like when you train with him, there's no messing about, you know what I mean? I think there there's a lot of that. Like sometimes there'd be exercises where there's like plastic knife on the floor.
You got sprint to it, get it fast. If you don't get it first, like the other blah blah all these kind of game, but there is it is slightly different. But the what I took from it a lot is it's goes back to a little bit like what I was saying before is getting people to where you want them.
>> So like if you can get yourself to the situation now all of a sudden your jiu-jitsu, your boxing, whatever else you've been training >> obviously is way ahead of your your common man. Do you see where I'm coming from?
>> Yes. That's that's a point he's make.
That's a point he's making. Yes, he said do the jiu-jitsu, do the MMA, do all that the Muay Thai, do all those proven combat sports, but there are certain things missing. The way I interpret it, what he's saying is that each combat sport is like a specialization. Boxing is the best for punch, don't get punched. Jiu-jitsu is the best for strangle, don't get strangled.
Obviously, obviously those are simplifications of the art. But yeah, of course, you know, you're a martial artist, so I assume you guys would understand if you don't like hopefully I'm explaining in the way that you can for anyone who's new to martial arts.
>> All of these combat sports are giving you specializations. Muay Thai is the best of what it does. Judo is the best of what it does, etc., etc. Neither, they're all tools in the arsenal. And there are other tools like people talk about situation awareness. That's a big one. Mick has a course on situation awareness. I haven't done that one.
But I might do it at some point.
>> And what are these courses? You go somewhere and crawly.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> It's like Yeah, as he said, it's a supplement. He said it's either for people already have the training and giving them extra tools so they can start using it immediately or people who don't have the training. And he's telling them, okay, now go off and do your Muay Thai if you do.
>> Where where is this in Crawley, mate?
What's the gym?
>> Uh Sus uh what's it called? Uh what's the name of it? Sussex Martial Arts Academy. Something like that.
>> Okay. probably martial arts. No, probably combat academy if I remember correctly.
>> Combat. Okay, cool.
>> Yeah, I got you. Cuz there's a lot down there, isn't it? I've been down there a little bit. There's Lupini down there.
Kinetics is is that kind of way. But but anyway, like with with the psychology now, like we spoke briefly before on the last episode about like where you want to go with it. But if we was to sit here and say I don't know 10 20 years time, like where where do you want to be with what you're doing? What what's sort of like your vision for where you're going?
Honestly, at some 10 20 years now, I'll probably doing research into this type of stuff like you know as natural like writing papers still training but I probably won't be am so I'll be like I won't probably won't be competing without pushing 50 like that heavy but I'll definitely be training for as long as I'm physically.
>> Do you look after yourself physically as well like in terms of physical training or >> I need to get more into that. I was since we start I started I joined the gym I was lifting weights part of the reason why I got big and stronger too. I fell off it. These aren't these aren't these are on me of course but you know what I mean I will dress them but you know yeah like when I haven't wear these weird sessions when I'm on it I'm on it I'm doing like 100 200 push-ups a day going to the gym [ __ ] doing my squats man >> don't you have to be like that all the time if you really want to go somewhere with this it's like true this is you know there's no messing around like if you're talking about fighting MMA it can't be like I ain't been training that hard recently you know you got this has got to be a lifestyle for you and I'm surprised you said that to be honest I thought you was going to tell me you're like all day every day but you have time off and stuff. Do you >> recently like again this is going to sound like it make excuses and in a way and to be honest it is but these last few this month has been my lowest compared to training fulltime for the last four years not three years first I was training two days a week then from there on was training full-time this has been my least consistent by far but as Bernardo thing said Bernardo Faren right >> y >> from BJJ Fat says he said it's better to reduce if things are getting in the way it's better to reduce the frequency and stop alto together. So I'm trying to follow that but eventually I will be back on it.
>> So what's a week look like for you if you're like let's say you're on it you've got all your sort of pieces where you want them to be like >> how would I what >> how would you structure how much are you training? Would you want to do what sort of training as well?
>> Uh Monday to Saturday I will be getting in some direct combat training at least two three days a week I will be doing some type of strength condition. You see that I'm You see how you >> mate? Cheers.
>> See how you found out that gymnastics and and handstands and whatnot work better for you than the weights. I feel like I need to go through a phase of exploring cuz I on a bit of cash fence for a bit. I feel like I need to go through a phase of like exploring different strength condition where I feel like yes, this is how I want to do it.
>> And obviously that's a matter of getting it done, getting the feel things.
>> But yeah, that's how it would be. six days a week training at least two threes a week day two three days a week of strength conditioners whereas the three days of psychology that I do >> and the way you look at things now like you like we looking at MMA and stuff like that how would you look at structuring that like how much training of each individual art and putting it together would you look to be doing >> excellent question uh there is a period of time when I want to be locking in wrestling I know that for at least I don't know 6 months 5 days a week of wrestling I know I need want to do that some point in my life I feel like I'll be unfulfilled if I king of sports if you ask me. Wrestling.
>> Yeah, I love wrestling. Oh, that [ __ ] Well, we need to have a whole discussion about that. But yeah, >> I'm doing it soon. I'm going to America for a for a for a little camp. I don't know if you've heard of someone called Caroline West.
>> Yes, I've heard about the American.
I'll see you soon, coach. I'm going I had the privilege of training with her recently at a workshop. Um, and we stayed in touch and I'm going out there to do some personal training.
>> I wouldn't be against training with her cuz, you know, I see that >> she's brilliant. Like absolutely brilliant. like like really sort of like eye opening in this thing she did you know was like wow okay this is there's magic here >> talking about her linking back to psychology see how she she's in taking the strength and conditioning to a next level >> I'm trying to take the psychology to a next level >> honestly I believe jiu-jitsu this is my honest opinion I feel like the jiu-jitsu community doesn't understand combat psychology that well >> I would agree with that to an extent yeah I would agree >> and the reason why I say this there many reasons but the main reason in my opinion this is Remember I said I want to elaborate more about stuff I said now my understanding of psychology I feel like the jiu-jitsu community doesn't understand the distinction between the will to fight and the belief that you will win.
>> Okay.
>> Not the same thing. They seem with the same thing. But you could believe that you will win and not be willing to fight.
>> You could of course be willing to fight and believe that you'll win. You could be neither willing to fight nor believe that you win. But here's the thing that a lot of people don't seem to understand. You could be willing to fight whilst not believing that you will win. Okay, going back to what we were saying last time we talking about fighting to the death.
>> You could be like, mate, I'm going to lose anyway. Even if it's not a fight to the death, >> I'm not going to lose anyway, but I'm still going to give 100% regardless.
>> Yeah, I think there's a freedom in that too, right? You're going to give everything you got because the outcome isn't as relevant. Even though of course it is in a way, >> the more you can sort of free yourself from that, I think you can fight more freely, right? We all know people that fought >> stressed out, tight, they don't perform to their best because they're too married to the outcome.
>> Yeah. They don't they the belief that they will lose the I'm going to lose.
I'm going to lose. It makes them give up which I feel is detrimental for self-defense cuz people people actually do is you mentioned before people do actually give up in self-defense situations. They say accept their fate.
This is what we need to train the mindset instead of you just have to believe because if people are scared I'm scared people the jiu-jitsu mindset is just oh just believe you're going to win I I know I believe should be training people to still fight even if you don't win even like like what Chris Eubank was saying integrity doesn't allow even if you getting beaten and I've heard other boxers what makes me say the jitsu community doesn't understand this is that since you've said that about Chris Eubank I've done research into boxing I've heard other boxers speak like that this this seems to common in boxing like this understanding seems to be common in boxing that that that sense that the will to fight does not require the belief you win whereas jiujitsu we don't understand that and you use the word which proves to me that you you're like a you're like a plumber who doesn't understand the physics behind it.
>> Okay.
>> Like a phys a physicist once told me that what physicists do is that they explain things in the most detail. Like a plumber doesn't have to go into this or a carpenter doesn't have to go into the same detail that physicists have to.
Physicists are describing the same thing, but they're going they're using mathematics to really be precise. What I'm about to do is I'm about to be like the physist and go into more detail because you use the word freedom.
Correct.
>> Well, I tell what I think when we're talking about jiu-jitsu is it's over sportified if you like in terms it's over points orientated. You know, like we've all been at classes where the cut and it's not a knock on them cuz that's what they do.
>> Yeah. Um, but the instructor will explain like go this way because it's four points, go this way because it's x amount of points versus like go that way because you're trying to hunt submission. You're going whereas to me like if you listen to some of these old school guys, you know, like your hicks and graces and stuff like that, they're talking about I recently read his book actually which is amazing.
I'd really I'd really recommend it. But a lot of his mentality of of fighting and stuff like that and I feel like >> there should be that old school element to it of like originally it was for self-defense, right? it was for real fighting valetudo and you know even before but it's not so points orientated whereas to me to go in and train something only for points not that doesn't have value of course it does there's a reason the points are in play but I think it has gone too far in a sport sense which is inevitable when you got so many people doing it but if you go too far down that road you get further and further away from a real fight which is why in my opinion you don't see that many highle jiu-jitsu guys now going into MMA and having success you don't see many MMA or UFC champions MMA in general but particularly UFC champions There's no UFC champions for the most part. There are McKenzie Durn is one, but that have come from a pure jiu-jitsu background and gone into MMA and been successful, right? Whereas, and let's be honest, the women's divisions that the pool's less, right? There are less. It's less competitive. Whereas, if you look at the men, a lot of them come from wrestling backgrounds is the reality. Do you know what I mean? Not all of them. Of course, striking comes here, but it goes back again to what I was saying about Kabib.
someone like Alex Bera, he's um he's got enough or sorry, he's got such an expert level at what he does and learning to fill the gaps with the other stuff that he can filter him to that place that he can make it effective. And to me like >> the the ability he's he's a finisher is what I'm trying to say. Do you know what I mean? And it's like he's pursuing the finish. He's not looking for points.
>> And what you said before about Crit like there was a point in time obviously when jiu-jitsu was doing well. I don't feel it was to do with the inherent nature of jiu-jitsu itself per se. See, I do. But I think jiu-jitsu's changed over time cuz I think when it started, if you look at the people like Ho Hixon that was not in UFC, but in in early sort of valudo contest, they're they're geared differently. They're they're not doing it for competition as much. Do you know what I mean? They're doing it for wins in in in a real fight. Sorry. Obviously, they're doing for anyone doing competition doing it for a win, but they're doing it for like a definitive finish against something. And the reason another reason why jiu-jitsu to me would have done so well is because when you individualize the arts in them days, like if you look at UFC one, it was individual art versus individual art.
Whereas now, there's none of that anymore. Do you know what I mean? People are mixing.
>> Someone might be way higher level at jiu-jitsu, but >> you still know jiu-jitsu. Do you know what I'm saying? And sometimes if you're like my my opinion on grappling, if you're a really high level wrestler and you've got enough jiu-jitsu to nullify a jiu-jitsu guy, you should win nine times out of 10 to me because the the control the wrestling sort of um what would you call it? The dominance of a wrestler is very different.
>> That that's so Mick actually said something interesting. He said, "I don't want to learn any of the submissions from jiu-jitsu. I just want to learn the escapes." He said he thinks wrestling is a better offensive system and jiu-jitsu is a better defensive system. Okay, I understand where he's I think I think there's a flaw in his thinking, but I understand where you're coming from.
>> Spend spend. I want to hear a different perspective >> because firstly to know the defense there's an element of attack that that will help that in terms of I know how to pull out a submission. Rear naked choke.
If I know how to rear naked choke you, >> yeah, >> that gives me a better understanding of what you're trying to do to me to shut it down.
>> You see where I'm coming from, right? So if you're if you're only going I just want to defend it, that'll only take you so far. that to me you'll never get beyond blue belt level defense ever because you don't have enough of understanding about it. Also, why would you not want to know the submissions because they're there for the finish?
That doesn't mean you're going to throw yourself on your back and wrap your legs around someone if if this the street scenario and his friends next year. I get that. But at the same time, why would you not want to be on top for submissions? Because there's plenty of submissions on top. There's plenty of things you can do submission orientated from the feet. You might have to change certain aspects of it. if you know the full expression of it. For example, let's go the most underneath heavy one.
So if I go closed guard arm bar as an example, right? Of course there's other things. Baron bolo >> closed guard closed guard armbar. I'm putting myself on my back >> and keeping you on top to look for a finish essentially, right? There's nuance to it, but let's keep it that specific.
>> If I know that move, that doesn't mean I have to go to my back to do that move.
It just means I've got an understanding of it. So should I find myself in that situation, I know how to deal with it.
This is where I think a floor in people that don't know jiu-jitsu. And I think it comes from fear to be honest with you. I don't know this make me make I'm talking about specifically. But from my experience, when you speak to people, they don't want to know jiu-jitsu. They don't want to go to the ground. It comes from a place of fear because they don't want to put in the time and invest the time to learn a whole system. Now, if you're saying on a street fight, me and you're going to get into a fight on the street now, right? Your mates might be around. My mates, there could be issues.
I don't want to go to the floor is a common thing. You say, "Well, I don't want to learn it. It's I don't want to go to the floor." That to me is the is a massive massive flaw in your thinking because it's like, okay, you don't want to go to the floor. That's great. What if you end up on the floor?
>> Yeah.
>> Now what? I didn't want to learn jiu-jitsu. So what? You're just going to die there because you didn't know. Do you know what I'm saying? If I find myself on my back in a street fight, I want to know jiu-jitsu and I want to know how to get up. You see where I'm coming from? So to me, when me saying this, again, not to use him specifically, I don't know him. I haven't heard it from his but >> major flooring thinking and to me it's it's border lines ridiculous. Do you see where I'm coming from? Yeah. Yeah. I hear what you're saying. Definitely.
Like it's like falling into a water like >> and saying I don't want to learn to swim because I don't want to be in the water.
But now you're in the water. So what are you going to do?
>> Do you see what I'm saying? You've got to swim. It's as simple as that is the way I'd look at it. Now of course there's better things to do than lay on your back. But if if I was to get into a street fight, I'm not going to go to my lay on my back jiu-jitsu game, am I? You see what I'm saying? That comes down to an intelligence thing. It's common sense. Do you see what I mean? Of course you're not. Now going back to what I'm saying about the the um over point system in jiu-jitsu and overtifying it.
Yeah, >> for lack of a better term is like >> if that's all you've got then I understand where someone like the comment mix saying would come into play because if all I've ever done my entire life is as an example pull guard me and you get into a fighting streak I'm going to pull guard.
>> Yeah, >> now I understand what you're saying because it's my natural instinct.
>> Yeah, >> I'm not going to do that. Do you see what I'm saying? If you can fill in the gaps of the other stuff and understand your environment, going back to your psychology aspect of it, >> I'm not gonna go there. I'm not going to try and put myself when I say I'm not going to go there, you might not have a choice because if me and you get into a grapple and let's just pull out a scenario, you're 130 kilos. Yeah.
>> And we're in a small enclosed area and you charge me. You don't have to have skills. You could end up on top of me.
Do you understand what I'm saying? My house.
>> So now what? I'm on my back. No worries.
Cuz I didn't want to learn jiu-jitsu.
But now I'm in trouble. I got this this problem to deal with. I'd rather learn I'd rather have the jiu-jitsu tool in my bag to put on it. Right? That's where to me huge flaw in thinking and borderline ridiculous.
>> Yeah, I hear what you're saying. Even what you said about that about that 130lb man in a closing space like you could be [ __ ] like >> even Gordon Ran could be knocked over by that if he comes out of everything very like physics is wrong >> trip there there's a million things you could be on a slippery floor there there could be three of them right there's all these things and the the problem with people that don't do jiu-jitsu in that sense where they go it won't work because I don't want to be on the floor is ridiculous. Sometimes you ain't got a choice. If I'm on the floor I want to know what to do. So that that would be my view on it. You know what I mean? If I'm it's it'd be a little bit like saying I don't want to learn boxing because I don't want to punch someone. I just want to take them down.
>> Yeah, >> that's great. But before you take him down and we're in this range.
>> If I try and grab you with I could be a high level black in jiu-jitsu. Yeah.
>> But if I've got no knowledge of striking, >> I think I can grab you like a jiu-jitsu guy. So I'm going to grab by the way I've run onto a punch. That could be game over.
>> Yeah. Do you see what I mean? And there's another thing as well that I think jiu-jitsu pure jiu-jitsu guys make a mistake of too. They run into the situation of oh jiu-jitsu beats boxing that's it. I don't need boxing. Again, huge flaw in thinking to me >> because if you if we was to say nine times out of 10 jiu-jitsu beats boxing in a straight fight, >> okay, I'm happy to say that. I don't believe it's that high, but let's just argument sake.
>> Yeah, I hear what you're saying.
>> If I have no knowledge of it, I'm not prepared for what you're doing.
Now, it goes back a little bit to what I was saying about the wrestler knowing jiu-jitsu.
>> Just so we put a belt on it. If if I'm a high level wrestler that has a blue belt in jiu-jitsu, >> Yeah. I have a basic understanding of jiu-jitsu. More than a basic understanding, I have an understanding of jiu-jitsu. Yeah. So, I can somewhat avoid submissions if I catch him early enough. If I'm smart, etc. So, that same logic applies to me with striking. If I've got no knowledge of striking, the same way I've got I'm a pure wrestler.
I've got no knowledge of jiu-jitsu and I jump into your guard, probably going to get submitted. Yeah, I might slam you around the place for a while, but I'm going to get submitted. If I go to striking, I can walk straight onto a punch because I don't know where it's coming from. And this is a huge flaw for me in pure jiu-jitsu guys. they think they'll be okay. You will not be okay.
You will run straight into a punch. I promise you. Do you know what I mean?
You will look into you will be thinking about the wrong thing. You'll be going through through your jiu-jitsu game.
You'll be looking to do what you think's going to work, which will work, but you didn't account for the punches. Now you're in trouble.
>> It just as you're saying this is making me think there's so many that you can't really cuz a lot of people, one thing came to mind. See, a lot of people like, oh, I've got my blue belt now. Whatever the equivalent skill level will be in, Muay Thai, whatever. I basically I've done the fundamentals now. I'm done with self-defense. It's time for competition time. But no, self-defense is a deep subject. You need to constantly if you're serious, >> it comes back to what you're doing it for. Because like if you just want to like >> if you want to compete in jiu-jitsu, >> don't worry about any of the stuff we're talking about >> cuz you want to compete in jiu-jitsu. Be like you want to be a footballer. Don't worry about self-defense. It ain't really relevant. Do you see what I mean?
You just go and get good at what you're doing. So there there's aspects of that, too. It's the the flooring thing. There was a there was a gym that put out that something like they was they was going around their black belts and other high level guys in the gym and they was talking about if you got into a street fight with a prime Mike Tyson these jiu-jitsu guys do you think you'd win?
And they was all going, "Yeah, yeah, I beat." And you know, you're looking at all of them going, "You're ridiculous.
It'd smash all you guys." Do you know what I mean? He's a real fighter at like a an elite level. There's a chance you might catch him, but to me, there's a much better chance he's going to knock you out, spark out before you get anywhere.
>> People are forgetting like going back to the whole >> M probably in way better shape than any of them. He's probably way more >> and a real fighter. That goes a long way. You know what I mean?
>> Forget that.
>> Yeah. real proper high level elite level competition, you know, and that that goes a long way of and also here's another thing as well. I know I'm ranting a bit about it, but there's I think there's an element with, by the way, I teach jiu-jitsu, right? So, it's not like I am a jiu-jitsu guy. I'm not I'm not going against it at all, but it's like there's an element of jiu-jitsu guys think that they just catch an arm bar and it's over. Listen, if you if you got into a fight with someone like, as an example, a prime Mike Tyson, I guarantee if you break his arm, he can't stop him. Yeah. You just got now you got a pissed-off Mike Tyson with a broken arm that you got to deal with. You see what I'm coming from? Of course you can choke someone, put them out. But >> good luck is what I'm trying to say. Do you know what I mean? There's there's chances of it. Of course there is.
>> The top of the top jiu-jitsu guys, the top of the top boxers going against each other, it's a little bit different. But if you're just a a guy that's a black belt in jiu-jitsu and you're you're sitting there thinking that it's relevant that you'll beat anyone in a fight, >> laughable.
>> It's true. You often hear, you often hear people say, "Oh, who would win? A world champion striker or a decent blue belt?" You often say, "The blue belt will win." You hear that all the time.
>> No chance. No. Sorry, I shouldn't say not a chance. There is, of course, there's a chance, but I would say very unlikely because what what what a blue belt in jiu-jitsu won't realize is that they'll be stood in front of someone on the feet. Well, you going to do butt scoot towards him cuz guess what? If you do butt scoot towards him, I can tow poke your head off, >> right? Yeah, >> you might catch something and I know there's nuance to that and you might catch a leg and baron bolo and blah blah blah. Great. Fantastic. But you also might get kicked in the face. So you're not going to butt. What does that mean?
Means you got to stand on your feet. You got to get a hold of him.
>> We're talking about a worldass striker now. Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> What's he going to do? Let grab him. No.
>> And when you look at his when you look into his eye, let's say you have your own experience of any type of combat is just rolling.
>> Yeah.
>> When you look when you look into the eyes and and you see the footwork and the stunts like oh my >> they might [ __ ] themselves.
>> You're just going to walk onto something is more the issue. Like even if you don't even if you don't panic and you go for your thing, if you go towards someone without >> the appropriate movements, the defense against a striker, which you do not have because he's an elite striker, remember that when he makes you look one way and kicks you in the face the other side, or even if it's just boxing, he makes you look one way, switches, he puts his head where you don't think it's going to be, you have that split second of uh uh >> it's over. You see what I mean? He can knock you out quicker than you can delever him. Do you see what I mean? And it to me there's a huge flaw in thinking with people when it when it comes to that. But there you go. interested as you go through this journey as well, not just now, as you go through more psychologically, psychology MMA because you actually want to fight MMA, right? So, it's not just a it's not just the side gig, but if you're if you're going through sort of periods of time training MMA, I'm a big believer in it. You should study arts, which you spoke about like the wrestling, go and do like heavy duty wrestling, you know.
>> Yeah, that's actually managed was another thing like that. I realized cuz people often say that MMA is the best combat sport, unarmed combat sport cuz there are armed ones as well but that's a different topic. Unarmed combat sport defense which I do over agree with but there one thing I realized when I started training Muay Thai is that there are certain things you can yet it's yes and no cuz there are certain things that you can only learn from the pure like when I was doing the pads for the first time I realized I can't do this with grappling.
>> Yeah, >> I need to do this. I need to isolate this as pure striking to really get them to you can't like how you going to grapple with the pads.
>> There's certain things you're only going to learn through wrestling. There's certain things you're only going to learn through jiu-jitsu through boxing.
>> That's why I think you should learn his arts on their own. I really do.
>> Like what Ilot said, he said he likes to learn each one.
>> El Pora said he doesn't do MMA per say, didn't he? Something along those lines.
I might be getting a slightly wrong.
>> I think I think he said only in the camp.
>> Only in the camp he spars MMA. He doesn't actually like train MMA sessions. Something along those lines. I might be getting a bit wrong, but he basically trains boxing for boxing.
>> In the spirit of what we're saying.
Yeah.
>> Yeah. And I agree with that because there are certain things like for example, if you just trained MMA and you got you just day one, you're an MMA fighter, >> your hands and your understanding of certain positions in boxing are never going to be as high level as someone who's only done boxing. Common sense.
Same as jiu-jitsu, same as wrestling, on and on and on and on and on. Like when you go through these things and here going back to what I said about where I've I've dived quite heavily into judo and I've started doing a bit of kink because the belt system I think holds you accountable too. So it's not no nonsense. Do you see what I mean? you kind of know where you are and you have to go through certain aspects and understandings to get to the next bit.
And of course, listen, if you want to learn to kick someone in the leg, the best thing you don't go to judo.
>> Yeah.
>> Right.
>> But if you want to learn to throw someone, might be the best place to be.
You see what I'm coming from? So that's the way I look at things. And I think there's there's >> the flaw in people's thinking. Whereas to me, in this day and age where there's so much information out there to think that you can do one art and it's going to work in a in a complete fight. Now, put it a different way. If if if a pure jiu-jitsu guy got into sort of a fight with someone who's never trained before, the advantage the overwhelming advantage you'd expect the jiu-jitsu guy to have, >> a more complete martial artist will have that same advantage over a jiu-jitsu guy.
>> Yeah, I agree.
>> But I think a lot of jiu-jitsu guys don't want to believe that. But it's true. It is true. Do you know what I mean? There there's no way you can think you're going to get away with like being able to miss a headkick if you don't know how to deal with it.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And also we're in the modern world where we're so like I'm I'm sometimes I think back in the past where the world was not so connected where whatever was taught in your village or whatever that was like the way and you know bam if they went to another village where people didn't train or had an inferior system they would just smash everyone >> right >> in the modern day where where every m not every martial art but you know the the all the the the moaning martial arts that we see in the UFC you can have access to them in any major city especially here in London that it's not that simple that are too like, you know, >> but listen, it's the better tools win the fight, don't they? Do you know what I mean? An application of the tools.
Like, if you've got more tools in the bag, it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to win. But if there you've got to be able to get someone to your your area, do you know what I mean? It's all well and good being you could be Gordon Ryan, >> right, on the ground, >> but if Gordon Ryan gets kicked in the face, he still got kicked in the face. I mean, his jiu-jitsu is not going to help him. Don't get me wrong. Don't hear me wrong. his jiu-jitsu might help him stay out of trouble, put him in places where he wants to be. But I'm saying if that connects Yeah. jiu-jitsu doesn't mean anything. You know what I'm saying? He's just an in shape tough guy.
>> Just just just as vom a kickboxer or a Muay Thai fighter, they get taken down.
Oh, that's not going to help.
>> Exactly. To me, the magic is being aware of your opponent. So Hicks and Grace used to talk about this again. I referenced him earlier. He used to speak about like not learning Muay Thai cuz he wanted to be able to do Muay Thai. He learned it to know what they were doing.
>> Yeah.
>> As an example, something. I might be butchering the term, but it was along it was along that mindset. Now, to me, that makes the perfect sense because now go back and it sounds like a little contradiction of what I've said, but >> I'll explain.
>> If you're a pure jiu-jitsu guy and you can get him into your world, >> yeah, >> you probably are in one of the better spots now, right?
>> Whereas, >> if I understand you've got an amazing right hand, >> Yeah.
>> Right. If that lands is game over, as an example, >> my whole theory on it would be don't take that away from it. not try and match your right hand, not try and get a right hand as good as yours, doesn't make sense. Do you know what I mean? And I think a lot of fighters make that mistake of like trying to be perfect at everything, which if if I know that's going to land on me, >> my day should be revolving around not letting that land and getting to where I want to get to. That's my whole sort of theory on it. You know what I mean?
Whereas, >> as we're talking about the floor in jiu-jitsu, I think where it's gone so sport heavy, they just almost ignore it.
And again, if you're just doing it to compete in jiu-jitsu, it doesn't matter.
But >> you always got to know your goals. Yeah.
It doesn't matter and you do it for what you want. But there's I think I feel I do feel like there is a little bit of a mindset that I do find a little irritating in certain elements of jiu-jitsu where it's like look you think this has covered all bases >> and it ain't. You see I'm coming from >> Yeah. 100%.
100%. One thing that came to mind said you want you trying to stop the punch is like I said I did a knife management knife defense course with Mick 2 days.
He said that's his hardest course because at close range a knife attack is the worst case scenario. Compares that to think of a gun like a laser.
>> A knife is like a light bulb. Once you if you can off at close range, if you can off uh misalign yourself from the from the from the laser, you're safe, right?
>> But the light bulb, boom, it's dangerous in much more directions. Remember, guns are long range. And one thing I think I was doing the knife defense thing is I realized something. Let's just say we're doing jiu-jitsu, Muay Thai, any conventional combat sport. In a sense, it's like a chess match. We got the same pieces where there's so many options available.
The same is also true if we both have a weapon of equal magnitude. Like we both got knives or you've got an axe and I've got a sword. It's like a there's so many that can happen. But when there's only one weapon involved and we're close range, so I've got a gun, you're standing over there.
What are we both going to be 100% focused on? The weapon.
>> The weapon. And what does that mean?
It means a huge amount of energy will be going into one place.
>> Yeah.
>> And when you realize that when I did that afterwards, I was like, damn. Like people putting knives on the floor and grappling for it. Like when after I did that and stuff like that, those type of exercises, I've seen them before and I wanted to do them for a while. Now that I did it, I've realized just how many options you have. Like it doesn't make sense to force. You you always hear they say that coaches will tell you don't force things. Take what's over like yeah you could be proactive but if that doesn't work use that reaction to your advantage or let them come to you.
Whether you're being proactive or reactive there's this idea of not overcommitting to things. But when there's only one weapon involved whether you have it or they have it you have to commit 100% to that.
>> Yeah. So I got a lot of thoughts on that and it's a really good point. Whereas, here's the thing I find again going back to jiu-jitsu 2.
>> If you've got my back, for example, or sorry, you haven't got my back, but there's a threat of me, you're you're threatening me with a certain submission, leave it as open as that. It can be whatever it wants. My way out of it, keeping this very bland, just more of a thought experiment. My only way out of it is to give my back. Right. A lot of people said, "Never give you back.
Don't give me back."
>> Yeah. No. No.
>> But if I don't give my back, you might break my arm.
>> To me, logically, I'm going to give my back.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. And I'll fight from there. Now, I've got I've alleviated problem number one. Yeah, I I'll address problem number two when it becomes. I don't not go to problem number two for risk of it and get problem number one. Does that make sense? Now, here's another thing that comes to mind when you say about knife defense. Okay, so if mean if forget me and you, there's a knife fight going on, right?
>> Would jiu-jitsu help someone in a knife defense situation?
>> Yes, but they have to modify it sign.
Well, two things I've got to say about that. I'm glad you asked that because that's a very good question. Number one is like what we were saying about before about getting to your positions once you've gotten to your positions. Yes.
One thing I kept doing is I kept taking people's back.
>> Yeah.
>> And boom, obviously I'm behind them with the knife or I'm behind them controlling the knife. That was very effective. And number two, it needs to be modified for it because I like a thing. One thing I you were saying like in a real I completely agree when you said that if some all they do is guard pull under stress, they're going to think under stress. I just kept doing that again going for under hooks and whatnot and they kept shouting at me like control the knife cuz an in pure grappling a nonhook's amazing. If you unhook an arm with a knife there.
>> Yep. Exactly.
>> You have to modify it and you have to get to your positions.
>> See, I agree. My my answer 100% will help you. Why will it help you? Because if me and you are tangled up and we both got hands on the knife. We're both worried about the knife. Everything's focused around the knife.
>> I've done jiu-jitsu, you've never done jiu-jitsu advantage me, right? Of course I've got to worry about that, but so have you.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. So to me, it helps. Another example, will boxing help a knife fight?
>> Not as much.
>> 100% it help. It will help. Yeah.
>> Yeah. It's not perfect, but it help.
If I can land a bit of punch on you, I might take that threat away. Of course, it's not the same. And I still have to worry about this. Goes back to what you saying about modifying, right? But also, I heard John John Dan talk about this once before. Like if you look at Muhammad Ali's skills, he's good at evading punches, good at moving, slipping, and sliding, and standing out the way things that translates of a evading, avoiding shots, moving away, getting away from the knife, right? It's different. The rules are different. The risks are higher in terms of me getting a punch on the face and a slash across the face, but they help is my point. Do you know what I All things we judo judo. Would a judo throw help?
Of course, but now you got to be careful because how am I going to get there?
>> So, it all helps and there's all holes in it.
>> Yeah, I see the point you're making. If you can get to it cuz I in theory cuz a point a point Mick says is about strikers. Okay, >> you might knock them out but you're risking a stab for a punch. I say no one they saying striking.
>> I look the other way too.
>> It's good for avoiding.
>> Yeah. If you spent years boxing, what have you also spent years doing?
>> Dodging and missing punches. Right. It's not just about punching, is it? It's about punching and what? Not getting hit. The art of boxing, >> hit, don't get hit. Yeah.
>> So, one half of that is taken care of with a knife. Now, of course, I'm not silly enough to go, "Well, I can avoid punches. The knife won't ever touch me."
Of that's not where I'm going with this, but you you you comparison I'm making that it's like, >> take this part of boxing in avoiding the shot, right?
>> Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like what I was saying earlier about the false dichotomy people make between armed and unarmed skills. Like, >> oh man, it's major crossover. There's no point learning martial arts because because you asked me why didn't you start martial arts earlier and I think in the back of my mind I think mate what if they just put a knife out on me but then I come to realize like it's all going to help me. Yes. 100%.
>> That's the magic is it? Exactly. Like it doesn't to me it makes sense when you when you first think about it but then when you really think about it it doesn't make sense to learn martial arts. Right. I won't learn martial arts because they don't help me with blah blah blah.
>> However, not doing anything definitely doesn't help you. That's for one. Now, I'd rather have, let's say, exceptional wrestling skills getting into a knife fight than having no skills. I'd rather have exceptional boxing skills getting into a fight than no skills. I'm not saying that they're going to >> get you out safe necessarily, but there's a lot more in boxing or wrestling or jiu-jitsu or any other >> sort of real art, if you if you want to call it that, cuz there's some funky stuff out there, but like real sort of legit real world arts that are competition based or real world based, there's elements of them that are going to massively help you. Yeah. 100%. And I think the magic is just is just getting there. But, you know, we we've sort of gone on and on on with that. But like with this kind of stuff, like I'm interested like what's the thinking in you wanting to fight MMA?
>> Honestly, for well the the first reason is obviously self-defense. But beyond that, because I don't need to like have many fights for that, I was thinking well quite a few reason. Another reason I was getting bored of all the sport the hype for sport fight grappling if I'm being honest with you. But another reason I feel like if I want to embody this philosophy talking about being willing to fight into your body no longer can or what not that mate you do jiu-jitsu like you know >> don't you I feel like I need to stand up against strikes to really fully embrace this like I think the threat of strikes at least least at least needs to be there. So when I train some of my guys that I'm I'm closer with and like at the end of like some of our pure grappling sessions we put on the MMA gloves. Um some of them do MMA too so we'll do some MMA stuff but other times we just grapple with the MMA gloves on. So like in position the threat of it's there. I can I can touch your face with a glove.
You can touch we can we can put ourel in a situation where it's like yeah okay you got a cool little slick move and you just rolled under for a leg lock but for a second you were in my you know what I'm saying. And if I blast you with that and here's the other point of this where it's relevant to training the right way because if me and you are training and you roll under me for a leg lock for example your face is on offer.
>> I touch your face with my glove cuz we're friends. I'm not blasting. Yeah.
>> Yeah. But you don't react well and you just carry on for your leg lock. That's not realistic training to me.
>> Yeah.
>> Just because I didn't blast you, you should act like it is a proper shot. Do you see where I'm coming from? You're under there. I'd give you a little let's call it a jab for lack of a better sort of term. I jab your head while you're rolling underneath me.
>> Yeah.
>> You would you would have to react appropriately for the training to be effective. Otherwise, I have to hit you properly to make you react that way.
Does that make sense? You roll underneath me and I just touch your face and you just carry on because it didn't mean anything.
>> Yeah. Yeah, if you're takes away the reason >> if you're in the mindset of oh man I'm just doing for sport it doesn't matter then like yeah the mindset you have is key like if you're if you're serious about that that's one thing Mick kept saying about the knife said treat that like a knife cuz there was another guy there an Indian guy who did I've heard of kabadi the Indian grappling sport team grappling um thing >> he kept wrestling him and he kept saying stop doing that stop grapp a lot he said stop grappling in ineffective way cuz a a very effective grip I'm going to start working it now is the Russian tight cuz you're outside with twoonone that isn't if you get a Russian tie and you can lock it's hard you got to get to it but if you've got a Russian tie mate you have a very high chance of stopping them >> but I also think a big a big element of of sort of any martial art sport or otherwise there it has to be the ability to look to finish instead of I have to look for this move >> like I'm looking for example a Russian tie on that arm and you don't want to let me have it >> quite difficult to do but the threat of that makes that become available meaning that once I'm like once I got one leg then I can move to the back then I can look for a strangle then I can move on and on and it's endless but I think if you're married to a specific and this is where I think as you go through like experience as a martial artist you start to let go of specific like I have to get this specific technique >> you know what I mean like the amount of times I've spoken to sort of like high level black belts all the way from right white belt onwards and they they basically do a few techniques really really well and they've got loads of different ways of getting there versus like they just okay at a lot of things and I have to get that one move. It's it's not like that kind of game. They they put a lot of pressure in certain areas. They sort of set traps there. Do you see where I'm coming from? There's the elements of it doesn't really matter when I listen. It doesn't to me it doesn't matter how I finish you as long as I can finish. Does that make sense?
If it if it comes by this choke, that choke, slam on your head, punch in the face. If it works, that's what you take.
You know what I mean? And I I recently, we spoke about it before camera. I I had the chance to be at a seminar with Demetrius Johnson, right? One of the brilliant minds, one of the very elite, if not the best ever MMA fighter, right?
Legit. Legit. And he made listen to him talk and some of the things he was teaching >> because like without going too deep on what he was teaching exactly like it was simple, to the point, effective. Cut the fat off the bone. No nonsense. No, no sort of, you know, a million pieces to a maneuver. It was about get the punch to the face, get him to the ground, look for the finish, keep him stuck, you know, simple simple things that were just like gold, you know, and obviously to say did it at the top level, don't even tell half the equation. So to me, the magic is just make it work. You know what I mean?
>> And I feel like when you come to, we talked about self expression before. I feel like when you come to self expression and being your own self that it makes that simple because like you're in tune with yourself. That's something they talk about in psychology like being your authentic self.
>> Yep. I think a lot of that comes into it. personality comes into play and also size of body. How tall are you?
>> I'm like 6'2.
>> Right. So you're like 6'2. I'm about 5'10. We're the same weight essentially, right? So our bodies are going to do things different in terms of length, right?
>> And getting into certain areas, certain things your body's more suited to.
Certain things mine's more and let's be honest, there's people that are the similar sort of weight that are 6'6 and or 5' 3.
>> Again, very extreme levels of what they're going to do with that body. Do you know what I mean? So like I I believe that it's not the way there's finding a way to >> put it together for you. You know what I mean?
>> Exactly. And another thing I want to talk about I didn't get to talk a concept of mine I didn't get to talk about last time I want to talk about things is one that I call >> aggression types.
>> Okay. What do I mean by that?
Well to put it simply well to say what psychologist say in the mind and I'll say my own views.
psychologist by by aggression. Let's let me be specific. When I say aggression, I mean the intention to cause harm. Okay?
That's why aggression. I want to knock you out. I want to shoot you. That's one by aggression. Psychologists divide aggression into two types. Okay?
Impulsive, which is done out of intense emotions like anger or affair. And instrumental, which is, as would commonly be said, is cold bloodooded.
Like, I'll pay you £20,000, go kill this person. I could have no just boom get about my date. That's instrumental aggression like using an instrument clinical.
I personally I agree with that you the psychologist the American psychologist John Dardard came up with that distinction and here's my my own conception.
I believe that there are different type that's the two broad types of aggression but I believe we can divide it further into many different types of aggression.
And I would go as far as to say that aggression is unique to each person.
>> Okay?
>> The way you experience aggression is the way the way I I do. And this doesn't apply to applies to joy, excitement, anger, f any emotion really, any type of psychological state. But what I mean is, okay, some people when you tell them about self-defense, they say if a guy mess, I'm going to knock him out. I'm going to Other people say I want to constrain him with his little if I have to do damage, I would. But I'm trying to minimize it. That tells me their personality, different types of aggression based on who they are as people. And here's the point why I'm bringing this up. Martial arts is a means to express your unique type of aggression.
And okay, let me bring up something now.
Recently, a couple weeks ago, I learned something in psychology called the Boowbo experiment. I want to hear your views on this. This is I found this mind-blowing when I heard it.
Basically they wanted to see uh it was an experiment to see how uh aggression gets modeled. Basically they got a bunch of children.
They put a thing adult they put children in a room of adult but before that they they they they brought in an adult and they the adult started beating the adult punching it hitting it and so forth picking up and slamming it and had two groups of children. One group didn't witness the adult doing that, adults doing that because they use many different adults and the others did.
Surprising or unsurprising, depending on on how you think about it, the children who didn't watch the adult beating the doll didn't emulate the aggression while the ones that did.
What they found out is that the boys were more inclined to mimic the men, the girls more inclined to mimic the women, and overall the boys showed twice as much aggression >> as the girls. The girls were aggressive too, [clears throat] >> as we know in combat sports, they are aggressive females, but overall the male the boys showed more aggression.
>> Mhm.
But what I found most shocking and surprising is that they said the children started to show forms of aggression that they were not shown. That there was a toy gun.
They weren't shown how to use the toy gun, but they started eventually picking up the gun, pointing at it, whacking it with the gun, making threats. And I when I heard I was like, damn. Like my professor says, "Oh, it's because they when I asked him about he said oh it's because they want stopped they just you know carried on which I think it's only I do agree what he's saying but I feel like he's only touching touching the the thing the tip of the iceberg in my opinion and I want to hear your opinion on this. Okay, first let me hear your opinion. What I want to hear what do you think of that the children?
>> I think there's a lot of moving parts with that. I think there are we definitely emulate sort of what you see around you, right? So it makes sense that the kids that had seen him or the adult beating a doll. They're more inclined to beat the doll. Like they would probably I'm guessing would be more inclined to >> juggle with it if they'd been shown how to juggle with it instead. Do you see what I'm saying? Now in terms of >> the aggression, >> I think aggression escalates too. Now I think that comes in with more or less education and more or less natural intelligence. So to go back to what I said before in terms of intelligence of it, I think you're born who you are to a degree. Some people are geared whether it's genetics, epigenetics, however you want to put it, more geared towards aggression. Yes.
Right. There's you know you we've all seen kids when we was kids or friends have got kids now that have got let's say two boys three boys close in age all grown up in the same house same parents same upbringing everything exactly the same some are more aggressive than others some are more intelligent than others so to a degree you are who you are in terms of >> to a degree yeah there's definitely a part that's there like you >> and certain things can be woken up I think too so like if I'm baseline middle of the road yeah >> and all everyone I see around me is very sort of handles a situation very gently talks their way out of it etc. all my life.
>> Yeah, >> I'm more likely to be like that versus if it was complete opposite and anytime a problem came up, someone punched someone in the face, right? What are you more likely to do? So, that makes sense to me. Now, to answer your question in terms of what do I think is going on there, I think there there's so many moving parts. Goes to the what I said about the natural who you are inside plays a huge part. What you see in the environment we're in, another huge part of it. But I also think there's nuance to it in terms of the mood you're in when you first see it.
>> Yeah. Okay. So, if if we're in a situation, again, me and you are brothers, we come from a very happy home, we got money, everything's good, no no problems in the house, and we see a person >> run up and violently assault someone.
Yeah.
>> Okay. Versus, again, we're two brothers, we don't like each other, we've grown up getting beaten by our parents, >> Yeah.
>> etc. That's sort of a background before we've seen that incident as one. Also, it can be as simple as where you are in in on that day because kids are very impressionable, right?
adults on there. It could be something as simple as a kid's brain [screaming] they like.
>> So they've got into that situation seeing that violent altercation in that mood. Do you see where I'm coming from?
There's so many moving parts to it to me.
>> Now when I I think I think they did say Yeah. cuz there's a short video on it.
>> Okay.
>> 4 minutes. But I did research. I think they did say to to simulate frustration, they took the toys away from the kids.
>> Right. So that plays into >> to >> because they because it's known that they needed something to >> and then they wanted to see but the kids who didn't see the beating, they didn't start beating it.
>> Yeah.
>> But the ones who did did see it. So they're using that as evidence. Look.
>> Yeah. It's interesting because there's elements to that. Whereas it's like I wonder if even aggression plays into that in terms of they didn't see the person or they did see the person beating it. Do you see what I mean with that? In terms of >> it might not be an angry thing as much as it is just like, "Oh, this is what the grown-up's doing.
>> Yeah. that's what I'm going to do. It could could be as simple as that. Like if they saw an adult wash their hands or not. I'm not saying it is, but in terms of it could have been. It might not have been related to aggression in the kid's eyes, if that makes sense.
>> I hear exactly what you're saying. And it's probably more fundamental. Like I believe like >> it was just aggression in that case.
Yeah.
>> But it's definitely more fundamental.
But my opinion on specifically why the kids started using a gun >> is you said it you said it there cuz aggression escalates >> and intelligence plays a part.
>> Yes. And and better way to be aggressive and could be argued.
>> Yes, >> that's a more efficient way. That's a better way.
>> You see, when you look at a lot of like like when you look at a lot of uh gang conflict, >> it usually starts off with a fist fight, then it becomes a knife fight, then it becomes a gun fight. When we look at the careers of criminals, we look at a serial killer, we see them getting worse and worse and worse. When you look at even when you look at things like sexual assault might start out with stalking and then it eventually becomes something much worse or >> someone's not unlikely on their first day to go rob a bank maybe they started robbing sweets as a kid right like >> we see that progression and you said intelligence I'm figuring out there are better ways there's ways to escalate it >> the point I'm getting with this is when I thought of that I thought ah that explains gang conflict [music] in my opinion explains gang conflict both in terms of seeing what the olders because the younger boys look up to the older guys are And also when I go into a fight with a guy, he broke my nose. Next time I'm going to go stab him, >> right? One up the person. Yeah. And intelligence, by the way, I don't think always means you're clever, >> but it's it's becoming more efficient at what you do. For example, the reason we got washing machines is cuz people didn't want to wash their clothes in the river anymore. You see what I mean? Now, there was a few steps along the way, but you get the point I'm making. Like coffee, anything that we've got now, like a fridge, a coffee machine, was out of necessity, right? So, it just makes things more efficient. And I think that the whole thing ties together with with whatever subject you put it on. But with that, it's interesting because the aggression side of it comes in. But in my mind, it isn't necessarily related to aggression.
>> Not aggress. Yes. It's not aggression.
It could have been, you know, they see I don't know them dancing with the dough and then they start trying out new moves.
>> That's what I'm getting. And also like kids emulate adults cuz they want to be like them sometimes. You know what I mean? Like they want to be like him.
He's beating the dough. I'll beat the dough.
>> Yeah. As they said that the boys were more like the men. The boys were more like to copy men doing it. and girls might make perfect sense. You know what I mean?
>> That was interesting as well.
>> And boys, listen, boys and girls are very different. I've got friends with boys. I got friends with girls. And if you go around the houses that have got multiple boys, it's like going into a zoo, right? There's chaos. They're jumping off things, throwing things, want to fight you all the time. I come through the door. It's less wrestle, blah blah blah. Whereas, you know, you go around your mates with girls houses.
And of course, there's there's nuance to that, too. But for the most part, I go around my friends who've got three girls houses. They bring a puzzle out and they want to they want to play a ball game.
You know what I mean? It's different.
>> I think they know the differences between talk about difference between men and women. not to go too off to this into this topic because not that it's not an important topic to address, but I want to go deep into some of the stuff.
There's still some meat to finish off there to chew into. I feel like obviously there physical differences, women cannot have children, etc. Um, not children. Men cannot give birth to children. Women cannot uh thing do not penetrate, etc., etc. I feel like the behavioral differences are when we say something's masculine, I mean like this is stronger in men. Like aggression is in men and women, but as the experiment showed, they said the boys were twice as aggressive.
>> Well, we're better at certain things and women are better at other things. You know, women are more nurturing than us, right?
>> Yeah. We have a nurturing side too, but it's not.
>> It's not exactly. And that's that's a good point. Like we have that side, too.
And if you needed to like there single fathers out there that have to play both roles, right? But but >> they're better at that. They're built for that. Exactly. We're built more for being with a sword knitting something is the reality. You know what I mean?
>> Yeah. But going back again going back maybe we'll talk more about gender differences on the third episode but there's there >> there will be a third episode guys.
There will be but there are certain things right now that I want to get to in think about it in martial arts. We said that okay the children were shown certain forms of aggression. Again doesn't have to be aggression. It's just in general like the purpose of >> shown something. Yeah.
>> Yeah. The purpose of that was actually to in experiment modeling behavior in general. They just used aggression. Just as a side note, I asked my professor why is this? But a lot of psychological experiments are about aggression. A lot of them. I was like why? He said unfortunately you know there's a lot to learn about that subject. There's a lot a lot of psychology is about bad things that >> but yeah going off that in martial arts aren't we not shown an aggression and then we expand and evolve it in our own ways.
>> Well there's a reason martial arts are here for sure. came again like we saying earlier comes out of necessity.
>> I mean if there was never a fight in history martial arts would never mean never have come up.
>> Exactly. Did is that not what we we've been doing this whole time. Someone the first fights happen people start figuring out new ways. We get taught things by our teachers. We start figuring our own things. We start finding going back to what I'm saying about aggression.
>> We start finding our own ways to express aggression. We start out learning the alphabet.
>> Then we eventually start writing our own poetry, our own thing. That's here's an interesting thing too. I do think that you can be overtaught as well in some way. So I do think you need to be given sort of the the structure of a move and then go and do it yourself because it goes back to like we were saying our body structure is going to be very different based on height and weight similar weight different height right different length you're going to have a longer reach than me most likely etc etc. So if if someone teaches us a stereotypical arm triangle, >> yeah, >> we can both do it, but there's nuance to it. If if I leave you, we know we don't we learn it together. We work hard at it for let's say 3 months. Both under the same instructor, we do then we shake hands. I see you late. I don't see you for 10 years. That whole 10 years, I've been working on it my way. You've been working on it in your way. I guarantee they're going to look very different when we come back together. Do you see what I'm saying? You see where I'm coming from?
>> It's not the same thing with the kids with that dodo. Like people Yeah. That's this is the reason the whole reason I brought up that that dough the bobbo dough experiment if you want to do research on it was to arrive at this point of we're all gonna like self-expressing ourselves like that's why I'm type >> it's important I think right I think it's very important to have some some play with it because like certain things I do and you can probably relate to this now being jiu-jitsu for a while like certain things I've got taught as a white belt very very early on in my journey I still use now right still use like simple positions like a lockdown for anyone who knows what it is like if I'm in that situation I I'll whack a lockdown on I was shown this by Alex later. Shout out Alex later who was a black belt when I started and he showed me it and I it wasn't it wasn't something the reason I bring that up as an example it wasn't something we drilled for hours on end and he showed me many times for my memory he showed me it one time do this put your foot there put the other one over it push your feet straight great see you later and it just something as simple as that now whether that that could be argued that that's down to me like the way I learn in a certain way because I'm not one for watching instructions if I watch an instructional I don't really take it in if I watch a short clip over and over and over got it see you so there's elements of that too but the point I was thinking is like a lot of things I do I wasn't necessarily ever taught. I sort of was shown sort of maybe a variation of it and looking for something else. I found you know whatever position I was I know exactly what you're talking >> and you sort of over time you develop it and like there's certain things I've I've done as well where people ask me to show and I've asked in reverse asked them to show me certain things and it's like they don't really know how to do it and I don't really know how to show it.
Does that make sense? It's like I just do it and it's like and you have to really go back and think about it to to to sort of teach it to someone else.
Does that make sense?
>> Yeah. Well, that's why top athletes aren't necessarily good coaches.
>> And I feel like the first technique, shout out my first coach Joel from Canary Wolf Jiu-Jitsu. The first technique that ever clipped, it wasn't the first technique I was taught, but the first I clipped was trap and roll.
How to escape him out. As we all know, it doesn't think. But I actually remember there was a point in time everyone was gone. like you know because I used to he used to structure the classes as a combatives like self-defense class a no gear class and a ghee class different different uh arrangements each day and there was a point in time everyone left it was just me and him and the ghee class and he asked me since it's just you tell me something that you need to work on and I said I want to escape out obviously generic thing that any white belt say and he taught me the trap and roll and that clicked I remember I started hitting it boom boom on all on all the white belts obviously as I got better now I don't use trap roll anymore I use elbow escape and kipping out But it was I remember I read it somewhere said once you learn that first move something in your brain starts goes ah then you can start learning more news. I remember that day. Shout out again Jo that stayed with me even though I don't use it no more. Maybe against a white but I'll use it or to set something out like when they're overextending but that really >> [ __ ] >> that really uh like it stayed with me and it really like I couldn't I'm even remember as a speaking now I haven't thought about it in a while but I'm going literally back to that class and remembering. But here's another thing before we wrap up because you know we're going through and I definitely want to get episode three and we got to get some rolls in together at some point too cuz we haven't yet. But there can >> I mention one more thing after >> you got loads of time. We're not rushing. I'm just but before we do wrap up I want to mention is like um >> with with positions and things like that. I do think the simpleness of doing things sometimes is always beneficial.
Do you know what I mean? Like there doesn't need to be a new way is is a mistake I think people make. An example when you said trap and roll there. Now, I know you said you got away from it a little bit cuz you found a better way to do things, etc. But let's just say you stuck with that.
>> If you done that >> generic number 10,000 times, >> it's going to look different than when you did it the first time, right? And it's not even so much you're doing things different, but you're feeling it different, which comes in, but please go whatever you wanted to mention.
>> Yeah, but I'm actually going to say a little bit of that, but then I need to cuz remember I said I've developed my understanding of certain things. I want to do psychological, but yeah, I've never thought of it like that before, but it's true. is like even if you've been doing it the same way, you are going to different body type or oh, I've noticed I can follow up with this or I can set up this way. Yeah, there are certain it's good to be taught as a balance.
>> But here's another thing. Sorry to jump in there, but like when when you're >> doing it, you know, it's like as a white belt coming in, you learn a move off of a black belt instructor, for example, and they teach it and you can't get it to work. You're doing exactly the same as they are, but they've got the feel for it. You know what I mean? And that's that to me is a big part of it that that people don't talk about enough is like don't worry about you don't get it today. Just keep playing with it. You'll have it in 3 months, 6 months, 2 years.
Do you know what I'm saying? It's not you don't have to get it perfect now.
You've been shown it. Now it's for you to go and develop and take with you on your journey or not. You know what I mean?
>> Definitely. Definitely. And like honestly I'm I'm glad to have this conversation. I'm realizing just how much even though it's been a year I'm realized just how much I've developed like my understanding of bam bam bam.
like as you're saying things I'm making like I'm before it was like yeah I'm understanding what you're saying but now it's like I'm more I'm just oh it's been a year obviously >> and it's good to sit here and talk to you because it I enjoy these conversations cuz it makes my mind really work do you know what I mean it's a back and forth and it's good but um as we said mate we're definitely getting episode three hopefully four five 6 10 20 down the road as we go on with this mate and it's always a pleasure to see you I appreciate your time before we finish you know the most important question I always ask which football team you support >> honestly I'm going to before before I say I don't support none I still don't support any but I will say this >> after watching Arsenal like I've seen how everyone reacted to Arsenal.
>> Don't do it.
>> I want to see No, no, this is something different. I'm going to say I want to see England win the World Cup because I know >> the parties are going to be >> All right. Okay. Okay. That took a better turn. I thought that was going down a slippery slope then. I was I was going to celebrate PSG beating Arsenal.
Shout out to the boys. But mate, which football team you support?
>> None.
>> Chelsea. Come on. Always a pleasure to see you, mate. I always finish with a fist up like this. Squeeze the neck.
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