Frustration growing over debt outpacing income

[00:00:00]With household debt outpacing income and insolvency filings reaching their highest levels since 2008, people on the prairies are placing blame, but it's not on the financial system as you might expect. Instead, according to new data from Angus Reid, borrowers are being primarily held responsible. Joining me now to explain is Shawn Stack, a licensed insolvency trustee, who actually commissioned this study. Shawn, good to speak with you.

[00:00:22]>> Good to speak with you as well.

[00:00:24]>> Uh give us an idea of what percentage of those on the prairies feel this way.

[00:00:27]What do the numbers tell us?

[00:00:30]>> Well, uh so as far as the the the numbers go, the people in the prairies are a little bit different than how we're looking at uh for the rest of Canada. So, um a lot of people uh for the prairies, about 52% are saying that lenders should be sharing this responsibility, whereas compared to the rest of Canada, it's about 58%.

[00:00:47]Um and then when people as far as um the them being responsible themselves, whether it's their responsibility or the lender should hold responsibility for the insolvency happening, uh in Saskatchewan and Manitoba, about 52% of the people are saying, "Yeah, it should be uh the it falls on the individual." And 46 are saying, "No, the the the uh for Canada, it should actually uh be the others."

[00:01:11]>> Did these findings surprise you in any way?

[00:01:15]>> Yeah, Marilou, very much so. I think one of the big issues that we have with a situation like this, when we find ourselves um in insolvency, uh being unable to pay our debts, um we often sort of think it's our responsibility, um and we fail to recognize that uh the system itself has uh is built in to allow us to restructure um in the event that we do get into a bad situation. So, it's shocking to see that a lot of people um don't feel justified in being able to utilize this when the rules are actually set up that way, so you can get into a better place.

[00:01:53]>> Does the study or the data give us any idea into why we feel this way? Do we Do we know what's contributing to these feelings?

[00:02:01]>> Well, no, there the study didn't really get too deep into exactly what the reasons are. I did kind of explore that in my book called Beyond Material Salvation um re- re-looking at uh rethinking insolvency and debtor morality. And uh I believe what it really comes down to is this idea of um I I I call it self-optimization where it's where we we're living in this culture of of this hustle culture of you can do anything and you just have to put in the work and and you can achieve anything you want. Um and we forget or we we discount the impact of the systemic uh holdbacks that are on us. And then when we're unable to actually achieve that goal that we set out to, we're we're overly harsh on ourselves.

[00:02:43]>> You know, seeing uh the result of this is uh landing on borrowers, whether people feel it is or not. Uh any advice you can offer to people maybe, you know, struggling to make ends meet or or feeling the pressure of uh debt crushing down on them?

[00:02:58]>> Well, yeah, you know, I would say um it's normal. This is uh there it's like that old uh bird song to every season, turn, turn, turn. We're we're in a season right now. Um we're in this technical recession. It's going to result in insolvencies. This is what happens. Um it's part of the system to reset itself. And so, if you find yourself in a bad situation, don't abuse yourself over this. Make sure, you know, if you're unwell, you go speak with a doctor. If you're If you're not doing well financially, you speak with a licensed insolvency trustee. You learn about what your options are so that you can get into a better place. It's not the end of the world. It's actually just kind of the start of the new one.

[00:03:35]>> And uh great to get your insight into the data. Thanks so much for your time tonight, Sean. It was great speaking with you.

[00:03:40]>> Great speaking with you as well.