The Peak of Innocence in Seven | The Swiftie and The Scholar

[00:00:05]Welcome to the Swifty and the Scholar, the podcast where we examine the lyrics, lore, and literary legacy of Taylor Swift. I am Angela McDow, the Swifty.

[00:00:15]>> And I am Dr. Jerry Coats, the scholar.

[00:00:18]>> Hi, Uncle Jerry.

[00:00:19]>> Hey, Angela.

[00:00:20]>> How you doing?

[00:00:21]>> I am celebrating the fact that we've been doing this for how long now?

[00:00:25]>> One whole year.

[00:00:26]>> What? N can't be that long. Isn't it crazy?

[00:00:29]>> It is. It It's crazy.

[00:00:32]>> Thanks for sticking with me for a year.

[00:00:33]>> I remember when you pitched the idea.

[00:00:36]It's a It was a funny moment.

[00:00:37]>> I was terrified.

[00:00:40]>> Ah, you were irreressably cute. It's like >> I was nervous.

[00:00:43]>> She literally was going, "Look at this."

[00:00:45]And and had her PowerPoint up saying, "Look at this. What would you say about that?"

[00:00:51]>> Funny. But here we are >> a year later.

[00:00:54]>> You baited me in with romantic poets.

[00:00:57]>> I did. I knew what I was doing. I knew my audience.

[00:00:59]>> Yeah. Unfair hook.

[00:01:02]>> Um, I did pull some numbers for our oneyear anniversary.

[00:01:06]>> Oh, wow. Okay.

[00:01:07]>> Okay. So, so far, not counting this episode today, we've covered 48 songs, Taylor's current GPA at Dr. Uncle Jerry University, >> Mhm.

[00:01:21]>> is a 95.

[00:01:22]>> That's really good. I mean, I would expect I would expect it would be fairly high.

[00:01:26]>> Yeah. Well, first of all, because um you know, I don't want to offend our audience and No, but no, seriously, I I I don't like grand inflation, so um but she's like, is she is she not like one of the world's most successful recording artists?

[00:01:42]>> Yeah.

[00:01:43]>> And so I would imagine her songs would be fairly well um not just received, but conceived.

[00:01:49]>> Yeah, agreed. Um six songs have earned a 99 or 100. Oh, really?

[00:01:56]>> Well, actually seven, but one of those was I knew it. I knew you and Jillian gave that grade, so I didn't count it.

[00:02:01]>> That's true. Oh.

[00:02:04]Oh, >> she had a guest. This is a guest grader that day.

[00:02:06]>> That's right.

[00:02:07]>> Um, but that is Marjorie, which I got 100.

[00:02:11]>> Marjory's good. Yeah.

[00:02:12]>> Peter, >> which has a 99.8.

[00:02:15]>> Great. You know, that image of them flying in different directions comes back to me from time to time. Me, too.

[00:02:22]And I have to admit, I'm just going to admit that as an older gentleman, um, I see that I'm farther and farther away from Peter's tailwind all the time.

[00:02:36]>> I know. It's true. It's true. But, but yeah, it's it's just such a beautiful image that it >> is a whole song.

[00:02:43]>> Yeah. The recession of childhood from our lives.

[00:02:46]>> Yeah.

[00:02:47]>> You know, and how we still try to touch it. We took the grandkids out for um an evening at Main Event.

[00:02:53]>> Fun.

[00:02:54]>> Great. And uh you know, just watching them play games um you know, it it keeps you in touch with your childhood.

[00:03:03]>> Yeah, for sure.

[00:03:04]>> Yeah.

[00:03:05]>> Um okay, then we have State of Grace, which we just did 99.2. L2L 10-minute version got a flat 99.

[00:03:12]>> Yeah.

[00:03:13]>> And Cardigan and Clarabau also got 99s.

[00:03:16]>> Oh, really? Those are good. This is a good selection of songs.

[00:03:20]>> Yeah, those are good songs.

[00:03:21]>> Yeah.

[00:03:23]>> Um, total views across all the platforms. So, this is views, streams, downloads, all of that is a a tailor blessed. There's a 13 in there. 1.3 million views.

[00:03:37]>> Wow. Wow. Over a million views.

[00:03:39]>> Over a million views in a year.

[00:03:43]And 32,000 subscribers across platforms.

[00:03:47]And then 1300 another 13 1328 Patreon subscribers.

[00:03:54]>> Thank you Patreon subscribers. Yeah.

[00:03:56]>> Exciting, right?

[00:03:57]>> Yeah, you guys are the best. It's it is, you know, I don't always comment, but um but you're the comments that I read.

[00:04:05]>> Yeah, we're in there.

[00:04:07]>> Yeah. Yeah. And I really take a lot of your uh comments to heart. some of the some of the criticism and um and but certainly you know what gets me the most are the stories of their lives.

[00:04:23]>> Me too.

[00:04:23]>> Yeah. You know the or the story of your lives. You know the the people who say you know yes this is this was a good song but this song helped me through >> Yeah. The reason I love this song is because yeah of this moment or whatever.

[00:04:38]Yeah.

[00:04:39]>> Yeah. The relativity to our lives is really really um fun. It's fun to see it touches us like that.

[00:04:46]>> Okay. And I have a surprise for you.

[00:04:48]>> Oh, >> I don't think you're going to like it.

[00:04:50]>> Okay.

[00:04:50]>> I prepared a quiz >> to see how much you've learned about about Taylor.

[00:04:56]>> Oh no. Oh no.

[00:04:58]>> In the past year.

[00:04:59]>> Uh now you got me kind of scared.

[00:05:03]>> I have tested this on my mom and on Chase.

[00:05:07]>> Uhhuh. Neither of them got a perfect score.

[00:05:09]>> Okay, that's a relief.

[00:05:11]>> My mom has been on this journey with me from the beginning and she still didn't get >> a perfect score. So, it might be too hard. Chase did pretty well. Chase got like There's 13 questions. Okay.

[00:05:23]>> Taylor Chase got like 10 or 11 of them correct. I think my mom got like eight or nine.

[00:05:28]>> Okay. You ready?

[00:05:29]>> I'm ready.

[00:05:30]>> Okay.

[00:05:30]>> How many questions?

[00:05:31]>> 13 questions.

[00:05:32]>> 13 questions. Okay.

[00:05:35]>> Okay. What is Taylor's favorite number?

[00:05:39]>> We're going to cut this from uh if I don't do well. It's 13.

[00:05:42]>> Yes.

[00:05:43]>> Okay.

[00:05:43]>> Okay. Who are Taylor's um two most frequent collaborators?

[00:05:49]>> Jack Antonov and uh uh not Shellback, the other guy.

[00:05:57]>> Uh Dresser. Dresser.

[00:05:59]>> Yeah.

[00:05:59]>> Yeah. What's his name?

[00:06:00]>> Destner.

[00:06:01]>> Dester.

[00:06:01]>> We're going to count that. You got us close enough.

[00:06:04]>> Okay. How old was Taylor when her debut album was released?

[00:06:08]>> Okay. Uh 14. She signed for a songwriter. 16 at her album.

[00:06:12]>> Wow. Got that in there for you last episode.

[00:06:14]>> Thank you. Yeah.

[00:06:16]>> Okay. Um we'll do that one last. Um what did Taylor call her re-recorded albums?

[00:06:22]>> Taylor's version.

[00:06:23]>> Okay. Um Okay, let's let's try this.

[00:06:27]Name as many albums as you can.

[00:06:31]>> Oh no, that's not fair. There are 12 of them, I'll tell you.

[00:06:35]>> Are there showgirl?

[00:06:37]>> Uhhuh.

[00:06:39]>> Um 1898.

[00:06:43]>> Close enough. Okay.

[00:06:46]>> 1989.

[00:06:50]>> Uh Redu, your favorite.

[00:06:53]>> Yes.

[00:06:53]>> Uh Midnight.

[00:06:54]>> Yes.

[00:06:55]>> Folklore.

[00:06:56]>> Yeah.

[00:06:58]>> Uh the other one.

[00:06:59]>> Uhhuh.

[00:07:01]>> Yeah.

[00:07:01]>> No. folklore and uh Forevermore.

[00:07:04]>> Oh yeah, close enough. Evermore.

[00:07:06]>> Forevermore.

[00:07:07]>> Uh dead poet Society.

[00:07:10]>> Okay. Yes.

[00:07:13]>> Um Cowboy One, Cowboy 2. I don't know. I don't know what those are.

[00:07:19]>> This is pretty good. I know some of these we've only covered one song from, so it's kind of not fair.

[00:07:24]>> Okay.

[00:07:25]>> How many is that? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven. Okay. You've got more than half. You got seven of them.

[00:07:30]>> Oh, okay. Yeah, that's >> those are the ones I expected you to get. So, >> yeah.

[00:07:33]>> Okay, we'll move along and then we'll see if you can get more.

[00:07:36]>> Um, this one you have not named yet. So, >> which of Taylor's albums did she write completely solo after critics said she couldn't possibly be writing her songs?

[00:07:47]>> Oh, >> we've only colored one song from this one, so it's kind of a not fair question.

[00:07:51]>> I don't know. Okay.

[00:07:52]>> I don't know. Which one is it?

[00:07:54]>> Speak Now, >> that's an album. Yeah, >> we've only done Enchanted from that album.

[00:08:01]>> Oh, okay.

[00:08:01]>> So, when we I I never talk about it. So, >> no. Okay. So, now >> So, you don't get that one.

[00:08:06]>> I did like the song Enchanted, though.

[00:08:08]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:08:08]>> Yeah.

[00:08:09]>> Okay. What was the name of Taylor's last tour?

[00:08:12]>> The Aeros Tour. The Easy.

[00:08:16]Yeah. I had no idea. You know, I think I told you I think I mentioned in another episode you would talk about the Aeros Tour and I thought it it was E R O S.

[00:08:25]>> Yeah. like from Greek mythology, >> the Greek god of love.

[00:08:29]I don't know. I thought she was like in the kinky love image and the the I'm doing the arrow story. Really? I'm doing the Aphrodite tour. Maybe we should get together. Yeah, I I it was the eras tour like ah Yeah, >> the different eras of >> But I got that one right.

[00:08:47]>> Yes, you did. You got it. Okay. Where in the track list does Taylor place her most vulnerable and personal song?

[00:08:53]>> Number five. Yeah. Um, okay. This is this is going to be tricky, but we just did this. Um, what song includes the lyric about friendship bracelets?

[00:09:05]>> Oh, yes, we just did that.

[00:09:08]Um, let me go back to um Oh, man.

[00:09:16]>> It's the one that Stevie Nicks liked.

[00:09:18]>> Yeah, I know. I know. It's I don't remember. Don't tell me.

[00:09:26]Oh. U of. You got this, kid.

[00:09:30]>> It was close. It does end in kid.

[00:09:32]>> It doesn't end in kid.

[00:09:34]>> And you >> um It's not You got this.

[00:09:38]>> No.

[00:09:38]>> No. Oh, that's the new Nike slogan. No, I don't know.

[00:09:44]It's No, I've been seeing it in the World Cup. They they say you got this.

[00:09:49]Yeah. Um I think it's the Adidas slogan.

[00:09:51]>> Yeah. of um I don't take care of your grandma, kid. Um >> not Marjorie.

[00:10:02]>> No, it's the one where she says, "You can >> you can face this."

[00:10:06]>> Yeah, you can face this. Yes, it's the very poignant comment that that one of our um Patreon folks mentioned that helped her get through a personal crisis. Very sweet. Um I mean, more than sweet, right? Genuinely poignant. Yeah.

[00:10:20]Um Kid, I can see it. It's like It doesn't start with you.

[00:10:30]>> It does, right? You can do the You can do it, kid.

[00:10:34]>> It's actually your.

[00:10:36]>> Not you. Your >> your >> You're your.

[00:10:43]>> What's the next letter?

[00:10:46]>> You're on >> You're on fire, K. You're on I don't know.

[00:10:52]>> You're on your own, kid.

[00:10:53]>> You're on your own. Ah, you're on your own. Okay.

[00:10:57]>> Okay.

[00:10:58]>> Okay. Yeah. I'm glad I got that.

[00:10:59]>> Also, Jason, my mom also got that one wrong. So >> Oh, did what? Wait, do I get partial credit?

[00:11:05]>> Yeah, you'll get you get half a point on that one.

[00:11:09]>> Um, how many album of the year granny Grammys has Taylor won?

[00:11:12]>> Um, I don't know how many Grammys she's won. Um, >> go album of the year.

[00:11:19]>> Yeah, she's has the most of any anyone.

[00:11:22]>> I'm going to guess five.

[00:11:25]>> Four.

[00:11:26]>> Four. Oh, okay. Congrats.

[00:11:29]>> Um, this one's tough. Which album was a secret double album with 15 extra tracks that we didn't know about?

[00:11:37]>> Oh, that's the one with Peter in it, isn't it? Yeah. Where I thought Peter was absolutely brilliant.

[00:11:42]>> Yeah. And it's just at the end.

[00:11:43]>> It was. Yeah. At the end. Um, is that uh the poets?

[00:11:48]>> Yeah.

[00:11:49]>> Yeah.

[00:11:49]>> Okay. Um, what is my favorite Taylor song?

[00:11:53]>> We're going to have to do that whole album.

[00:11:55]>> Yes.

[00:11:55]>> I mean, I would like to read them all.

[00:11:57]>> Yeah.

[00:11:58]>> Uh, your favorite is Red.

[00:12:00]>> No song.

[00:12:01]>> Oh, song. Your favorite song.

[00:12:04]Your favorite song >> from Red.

[00:12:07]>> From Red.

[00:12:10]Well, >> I don't know. Have we done it? Huh?

[00:12:14]>> Is it a 10-minute version?

[00:12:15]>> Yeah.

[00:12:15]>> Yeah. Okay.

[00:12:19]>> And what was Taylor's first pure pop album?

[00:12:24]>> Um, it's got to be um 1989.

[00:12:28]>> Yeah. Yeah. You did pretty good.

[00:12:30]>> Sh. I'm a scholar.

[00:12:32]>> That was pretty good. You only missed three and then you got seven of the 12 albums.

[00:12:39]>> Okay.

[00:12:40]>> It's pretty good.

[00:12:41]>> Thank you very much. That's a lot of knowledge gained in a year.

[00:12:44]>> It It really is frighteningly so. Yes, >> that was fun for me to put together.

[00:12:51]Thanks for indulging me.

[00:12:52]>> Thank you. That was That was fun. I I had no idea I knew so much.

[00:12:56]>> Yeah, you killed it.

[00:12:58]>> You know about track fives and >> Yeah.

[00:13:00]>> friendship bracelets.

[00:13:02]>> Okay.

[00:13:03]>> Okay. Let me ask you a question.

[00:13:04]>> Okay. Oh gosh.

[00:13:05]>> So, with more than a million views >> Yes. Um, did you anticipate a year ago we would be doing that?

[00:13:13]>> No, not not even a little bit. I mean, it's like you hope you hope that that it's going to do well, but um there was no world in my mind where um we grew as fast as we did and we gained as much like as many like people that are here every single week and that want to support like on Patreon and stuff. Like I thought maybe we would just now be getting to where we could maybe consider starting a Patreon, you know, like um yeah, it's been such a fun journey.

[00:13:47]>> So what I mean, this is a generalized question, but what has it meant to you personally to be able to to do this? I mean, does it like assuage does it massage your your need to be attached to Taylor Swift? Yeah, I think it's fun because I mean I think that there's like seven different answers to that question, but it's part of it is that it's very fun to be I've I've always been part of the Swifty fandom online, but I've always been like a lurker.

[00:14:16]>> A lurker.

[00:14:17]>> I've just been lurking. I'm not like I'm not commenting on things. I'm not, you know, I'm just taking it all in. I know about Swifty content creators. I watch them. But like now it's crazy that I am one of those, you know, >> and it's just been so fun. This is such a like fun creative outlet, which I think has been the best part for me is like getting to choose the songs and knowing we're going to sit down and like have these fun conversations and then I get to like choose how to promote and which clips to pick and like see which what I think people are going to like resonate with on social media. And um yeah, it's just been so fun. Like also I feel like what I feel like a lot of people in the audience also agree with is that we know that we love Taylor's work and we knew that it was good but maybe we didn't always have the words for why it's good and we didn't have like the explanation for like why why we think she deserves all of the success and I think you have come in and shown us that and like given us the words for why we love like listening to her stories, you know?

[00:15:27]>> Well, it's like we said last week about Shake It Off, right? The um you know, you you listen to it and you think about it and you think, "Well, it's it's a light glitter gel pen song. I know what glitter gel pen."

[00:15:40]>> I know. I didn't ask about the pens.

[00:15:41]>> I know. Um but you know what? I said this last last time. You know that it's there are there are rhetorical elements embedded in the song that make it good.

[00:15:53]Yeah.

[00:15:53]>> Right. There there are reasons. I mean that that's what's fun for me is finding the reasons.

[00:15:58]>> Yeah. And it's just been fun. Like I think this has been such a fun like it it kind of did exactly what I hoped it would, you know, is just to like bring a level of seriousness to talking about these things um talking about Taylor's work that I think it deserves. And also it's just been fun like in like the the the journey of you from not really trusting Taylor as an author, as a writer from the beginning >> and like the first few episodes you're like, okay, sure, sure, sure. And then like to see as as you've gotten more of her work under your belt, like understanding like, oh, I maybe I can like trust her and know that she's doing these things on purpose and like >> understanding her kind of signatures and stuff. Like it's just been so fun. I I love to turn people into Swifties, you know.

[00:16:48]>> Yeah. I'm gonna have to make a Well, I made that list of the typical tailor, you know, the typical elements she sticks in her in her work.

[00:16:56]>> Yeah.

[00:16:56]>> Yeah. I mean, I can tell you what's been most fun for me is when I read the comments and you know, one of you mentioned that you um you listen to this with your child, >> you know, and having been a teacher all my life, um you know, it's it's fun for me to go back to teaching, having been in administration the last couple of decades, and it's fun to go back to teaching. It's fun to um to have an impact on other people's lives who who get to hear about poetry >> in in a way that they don't usually think about it.

[00:17:32]>> Right.

[00:17:33]>> That's incredibly And I love working with you.

[00:17:35]>> Yeah. We're having so much fun.

[00:17:37]>> I know. I know. I just I think you and Chase are the best. And so >> we are the best.

[00:17:42]>> You are. So yeah, it's fun to hang out and just talk.

[00:17:46]>> Yeah. Um I'm having a great time. Okay.

[00:17:49]>> This has been such a fun year.

[00:17:51]exhausting.

[00:17:53]>> Yeah, it's >> it's been a lot more work than I was expecting. I think um just maybe because of how fast it grew and how many people are interested in like chatting and having conversations, which I love.

[00:18:04]That's also a fun part is now I can share something about Taylor on Instagram and I get a hundred people that want to talk to me about it whereas before it was like two of my friends, you know?

[00:18:15]>> Right. Yeah, that's funny. It's like really expanded my circle of like being able to talk about these things that I really care about, you know.

[00:18:23]>> Well, that's it. When I mentioned Christina Rosett's Goblin Market last week and um people I you know maybe two or three of them will go and read it.

[00:18:31]>> Yeah, exactly. Yeah, they're always linked. I go read them. I find the links and I link them all and I pay attention.

[00:18:37]So, yeah, it's just been really fun and a little bit unexpected and um just a really cool journey.

[00:18:43]>> Good. Okay.

[00:18:44]>> Yeah, >> maybe we should do it another year.

[00:18:46]Okay.

[00:18:47]>> All right.

[00:18:50]>> Okay. Today's episode.

[00:18:52]>> Shall we start with this one?

[00:18:53]>> Yeah.

[00:18:54]>> Okay.

[00:18:55]>> Okay. I have I I this song is really special. I think um I you have not given me any clues about how you feel about it. So, I'm interested. But I think that this is such a fun I you've you've seemed to have um kind of gravitated towards the songs where Taylor's talking about childhood and kind of going back to the to her childhood and or or or in this case, you know, I feel like she's like actually talking about from her childhood perspective.

[00:19:23]>> Um and so I wanted to save this one for today. This is seven from folklore. This is the seventh track on folklore in case you were wondering.

[00:19:32]>> Cute. August is the eth because it's the eighth month in case you were wondering about that as well. Um it has nothing to do with what we're talking about today, >> but it it does demonstrate a high level of intentionality.

[00:19:43]>> Yes. Um this is written by Taylor and Aaron Destner and produced by Aaron Destner.

[00:19:51]>> Okay, >> take it away.

[00:19:53]>> Uh yes, I gravitate toward the uh the poems about children. So, I I I like this one.

[00:20:02]>> Okay.

[00:20:03]>> Yes.

[00:20:05]>> Good.

[00:20:06]>> Um Yeah, I can't wait to do um you know, there are albums that absolutely intrigue me. Folklore is one of them >> for sure. Yeah. And um you know when we when if we ever do finish a whole album, if that ever happens, um I think I'd like to stack all my notes together and for that album and you know to kind of recompend recompartmentalize them so that they're more systematic and then take a really strong look at just this album.

[00:20:35]>> Yeah, definitely.

[00:20:37]>> Um okay, seven.

[00:20:39]>> Yes. Uh obviously um it's about a seven-year-old.

[00:20:44]>> Yes.

[00:20:45]>> And and I think there are reasons why seven.

[00:20:51]Um I think there are a lot of reasons why seven.

[00:20:54]>> Okay.

[00:20:54]>> So I made a list.

[00:20:56]>> Okay, great.

[00:20:56]>> I'm big on lists. Have you guys figured that out now?

[00:20:59]>> There have been a lot of lists.

[00:21:00]>> Yeah. Um seven. Seven is the number of completion.

[00:21:05]Uh for those of you who are into numerology or those of you who are not um please understand that ancient societies were you know they viewed numbers geometric figures as being symbolically important. So uh three is the number of the godhead not just in Christianity but in a number of religions. Um you know why? One of the reasons is because uh three is a triangle >> and the triangle is the first two-dimensional figure above a line.

[00:21:34]>> Okay. Yeah.

[00:21:35]>> Okay. And so geometrically it's very important to ancient cultures. So it was considered magical.

[00:21:42]>> Okay. Um four is the number of the earth.

[00:21:46]>> Um you know >> Oh the elements. There's four elements.

[00:21:48]>> We have four elements, four directions, four seasons.

[00:21:51]>> Oh gosh. Okay. Yeah.

[00:21:53]>> Right. So four is is emblematic of the earth. And if you put the heavens and the earth together, >> you get seven.

[00:22:01]>> You get seven. Yes. And by the way, if you multiply them, you get >> 12 >> 12 people on a jury, 12 zodiac signs, 12 months of the year. Yeah. And so numerology, you know, numerology is very important. And you know, seven is the number of completion. It's the number of perfection.

[00:22:24]>> Okay. Um there is something perfect about this the child the the memory of the child narrator in this poem. Um you know so I think that seven is important for that. Seven is also I mean you see it all through ancient um history, literature, religion. Um there are seven days of mourning, seven days of commemoration in Gilgamesh. Um there were seven days of the flood in Gilgamesh.

[00:22:55]>> Okay.

[00:22:56]>> There are seven gates of the underworld in the Samaran godhead. Um you may know that the seventh son is considered to be the blessed child with second sight.

[00:23:07]>> Okay.

[00:23:07]>> So the seventh child had a special sight.

[00:23:11]>> Interesting.

[00:23:12]>> Right. So for this poem, I mean I don't know if that if that plays in here. Um, you know, originally before they discovered more of the planets, there were they were thought to be seven celestial bodies, um, you know, if you look at the Bible, there are seven years of famine and seven years of plenty, right? So, or the other way around in the Joseph story, >> but um, and so you may know that seven is a very important number in the Bible.

[00:23:37]>> Um, you know, a sin might be visited on um, on a person for 49 generations.

[00:23:44]Well, why 49? 7* 7 >> 7* 7 um you know there are seven days of creation so it's considered to be again divine the divine hand of God divine perfection um it's also considered to be a number of community there are a number of folk tales wait what's the name of this album >> folklore >> yeah there are a number of folk tales in which um seven is a symbolic number that means community so for example there are seven dwarves groups.

[00:24:15]>> Okay. Yeah.

[00:24:16]>> Right. Or seven daughters in the Pletes.

[00:24:19]>> Okay.

[00:24:19]>> So, there are seven girls in the Pletes.

[00:24:22]They're being pursued by Orion the Hunter. He doesn't give them up. And so, Zeus takes them and scatters them in the heavens. And so, they form the seven little stars of the the the Pleaides um constellation.

[00:24:35]So, you know, I don't know that that Taylor Swift has any or all of these in mind, but um but I think seven is is highly symbolic, and I think that it plays well here. I I think it's also that age at which we're just coming out of first grade, >> you know, and it's it's an age of awareness but but not fully acknowledging, >> you know, our humanity as a child, right? It's the age when we see things but we don't often understand things.

[00:25:10]>> Uhhuh. Okay. Yeah.

[00:25:12]>> Um Okay. So it it reminds me of um I remember my dad was in the Navy and when we lived around Washington DC he always had this rule that once a month we're going to go someplace. Okay?

[00:25:26]>> You know we lived on the eastern seabboard, we're going to go to a museum. We're going to go to a famous battlefield. We're going to go down and watch an Apollo launch. Um you know we were in the car once a month and we were going someplace up to Niagara Falls over to New York.

[00:25:40]>> Nice. Um, and everywhere I went, I realized that um, there was this one road and I couldn't understand that this one road seemed to lead everywhere.

[00:25:54]Um, I don't know if you've seen it. You drive down the highway and there's a sign that says frontage road, next exit.

[00:26:03]And I remember finally asking my dad, why don't we just take frontage road because it seemed to go everywhere.

[00:26:11]>> Yeah, there's always a frontage road, >> you know. And so, um, yes, when I read a poem like seven, I have to I have to admit that I put myself into this child narrator.

[00:26:22]>> Yeah, that's that's a perfect way to describe that. The the thing that you were saying with awareness, but still like you have an awareness, but you're still like a very like naive about everything.

[00:26:31]>> I could see the sign. I could read the sign. You >> read it? Yeah.

[00:26:33]>> It said frontage road.

[00:26:35]>> Yeah.

[00:26:36]>> Why don't we take Frontage Road?

[00:26:38]>> For our um non-American listeners, a frontage road is like a side road.

[00:26:43]>> Yeah.

[00:26:44]>> And so there's always there's it's not a road called Frontage Road, but when you're a kid, all the rest of the signs are names of roads.

[00:26:51]>> Yeah. They're all street names like like Wilson Boulevard or Yeah. Um Yeah. And I kept passing Frontage Road. Frontage Road is just that road you pull off the highway to get gas.

[00:27:00]>> Yeah. Yeah, >> that fronts the highway. I didn't know that.

[00:27:05]>> Um, yeah, I just kept reading about Frontage Road.

[00:27:08]>> That's funny.

[00:27:08]>> So, yes, when I when I was um reading this poem um and I saw the the child narrator who didn't quite >> perceive the universe in its fullness.

[00:27:21]>> I I thought about myself as a child.

[00:27:23]>> That's funny. That's a perfect comparison. Yeah.

[00:27:25]>> Yeah. Um Okay. So, seven has lots of different meanings. Um certainly that number of childhood when a level of awareness is just awakening. And so we start with verse one.

[00:27:38]>> Yes.

[00:27:39]>> Please picture me in the trees. Okay. So she's making an appeal to us. Please.

[00:27:45]>> She's addressing us directly in an apostrophe. So you know the the speaker in the poem is talking to an unknown listener, >> right? That's called an apostrophe. Um, and picture picture me. Okay. So, I love the word picture. It it engages us in an act of imagination.

[00:28:06]>> Okay. Yeah.

[00:28:07]>> Okay. Because she's going to ask us to return with her to her childhood. I didn't live her childhood, but I lived a childhood.

[00:28:16]>> Right. So, I can't I can't, you know, know her childhood, but I can picture my own and place her in it.

[00:28:24]>> Um.

[00:28:24]>> Yes. Yes. Exactly. It's a wonderful act of engagement. Yes, >> isn't it?

[00:28:29]>> It I don't know to me it was just a lovely way to invite us into the poem.

[00:28:35]>> Agreed.

[00:28:35]>> Um you can note the use of the imperative verb. Um you know this is a it's it's a kind of collaborative memory. It's not a perfect objective memory. She says come into my memory and think about it with me. Mhm.

[00:28:54]>> And then we have the trees.

[00:28:56]>> Uhhuh.

[00:28:56]>> Okay. So, uh, there's a pastoral poem.

[00:29:00]>> Okay.

[00:29:00]>> So, you know, I'm reading it and I'm immediately thinking about Emily Dickinson wandering in the trees outside of Amherst or Robert Frost writing his poems of New England. Um, you know, this is a pastoral actually. What came to my mind immediately was um, uh, Virgil, you know, the Roman author.

[00:29:20]>> Okay. Um Publius Wgillius.

[00:29:22]>> Yeah. Totally.

[00:29:23]>> Yeah. Virgil um writing his echalogues um you know poems, pastoral poetry.

[00:29:31]>> Um so why a tree? Well, a tree is a symbol. A tree is a symbol of growth.

[00:29:36]>> Okay.

[00:29:37]>> Okay. We've got a child.

[00:29:38]>> Perfect. Yeah.

[00:29:39]>> Uh rootedness.

[00:29:40]>> Okay.

[00:29:42]>> Um trees can be long lived, timelessness. Mhm.

[00:29:46]>> Um, you know, this is years later that the memory is going to be occurring.

[00:29:50]They're also tall and so to be to be to imagine the tree is to look down on the world to have another perspective.

[00:30:00]>> Interesting.

[00:30:01]>> Right. So, she's inviting us to see the world from this tall perspective. Well, it the narrator really isn't a child.

[00:30:10]The narrator is an adult.

[00:30:11]>> Correct. Yeah. So, she's taller now, but she's looking backward in time and down on herself as a child.

[00:30:19]>> Cute.

[00:30:20]>> Yeah. Isn't that cute?

[00:30:21]>> Yeah. I love that.

[00:30:22]>> I do, too. So, for me, the tree works as a symbol several different ways. And again, I think if you ask Taylor Swift, which one of these does she mean, I hope she says, "Oh, all of them." Yeah.

[00:30:35]>> Yeah. I I love the tree, especially from a from a perspective of height.

[00:30:40]>> Yeah. From up up above. And we're just like watching it all from a higher place, >> re-engaging with the memory.

[00:30:46]>> Yeah.

[00:30:47]>> Um and then you got the nice poetic elements. Please, picture alliteration with the piece. And then me, trees. You see the internal rhyme.

[00:30:58]>> So, >> and please too, right?

[00:31:00]>> And please. Yeah. Please, trees, me.

[00:31:02]Yeah, you're right.

[00:31:03]>> Yeah.

[00:31:03]>> Um Yeah. So gosh uh all we have is apostrophe, imperatives, pastoral tradition, alliteration, internal rhyme, and symbolic imagery.

[00:31:17]>> Just casual one line.

[00:31:19]>> Yeah, >> she does. I feel like you you the the first line of all like so many of her songs, her poems, you can spend so much time on.

[00:31:30]>> Yes. You know, I think again if you go two weeks ago >> to the kid poem.

[00:31:35]>> Yes.

[00:31:37]>> Whatever the rest of it is.

[00:31:41]>> You've got this kid.

[00:31:42]>> You You're on your own kid.

[00:31:44]>> That's what I said.

[00:31:47]Um, yes. If you go back to that first line again, like you said there, I could I could have just stopped with the first line. That first stanza in that poem to me is consently good poetry, >> you know, and >> so yes. Yeah, there are only about five literary devices going on here in the first line.

[00:32:08]>> So I think she hits her peak in the first line.

[00:32:10]>> Oh. Oh, >> second line. I hit my peak at seven.

[00:32:16]Okay, this is hyperbolic.

[00:32:18]>> Yes.

[00:32:18]>> Right. She's being exaggerative. Um, you know, no one hits their peak at seven or Well, hopefully. Yeah. Um, it's also dramatic irony.

[00:32:27]>> Okay.

[00:32:28]>> Okay. You remember different types of irony. Verbal irony is where you say one thing and you mean another. But dramatic irony is where you, the reader, know more than the narrator or someone in the poem. Yeah.

[00:32:42]>> So, she says she hit her peak at seven, but we know she's an adult writer. And so, we know she's going to hit a peak later on, right? Yes. It's when she meets Travis and um you know but she's but the narrator is establishing that this this poem is from the views of the child of childhood and so life's peak is you know is only you know life's highest peak is childhood where you're at your most innocent >> right >> okay so if it is her peak It's at the peak of innocence.

[00:33:23]>> Okay.

[00:33:23]>> It's where you think frontage road really is a road that leads somewhere and there's a sweetness to that. Um, you know, there is an abiding sweetness to this poem.

[00:33:33]>> Agreed. Yes.

[00:33:35]>> Feet in the swing over the creek. Okay.

[00:33:38]Please tell me who has not swung out on a swing. And so, you know, yes, you have that kesthetic imagery. Everybody's felt it. And so when she talks about her extending your feet, you shoot your feet forward in order to impel the swing.

[00:33:55]>> Go higher.

[00:33:55]>> So you can go higher and higher. And you want to be as tall as the tree. Yeah.

[00:34:00]>> Right. You want to be as tall as an adult. You want to have that perspective, but not quite. Um but the memory is still in the motion of things.

[00:34:10]>> And then you've got the creek as a symbol. You know, the creek is transition, risk, possibility. Um, the boundary between safety and adventure.

[00:34:21]>> Okay. Yeah.

[00:34:22]>> You know, you think about a a river is is frequently a symbol of memory.

[00:34:27]>> This is another one of our memory poems.

[00:34:29]>> Yes. For sure.

[00:34:31]>> So, yeah, she's she's remembering, but you know, understand that a river is a symbol of memory because it flows out to a greater ideal. And also the water that you remember is never the same water, right? It's always it looks the same.

[00:34:49]>> I just move my mind.

[00:34:52]>> It looks the same, but it's not the same water, right? It's filtered through the mists of time, through the memory that that you recreate.

[00:35:03]>> Oh my goodness.

[00:35:04]>> Yeah. And I think that the the the swing itself is a symbol, right? you know, swinging the child back and forth between the earth and the sky, you know, pending like a tick tock pendulum going back and forth, time passing, and it'll never be the same. It'll never be the same swing. It'll never be the same moment.

[00:35:26]And you've got lovely internal rhyme um with feet and creek.

[00:35:31]>> Yeah.

[00:35:32]>> Right. She begins and ends just as she began and end the first line.

[00:35:36]>> Yeah. with that internal rhyme.

[00:35:40]Okay, two down.

[00:35:41]>> Wait, but this is fun because it's it it took me a long time to pick up on this.

[00:35:45]Like I hit my peak at seven >> feet. Like she's in the swing.

[00:35:52]>> Oh.

[00:35:52]>> And she's going so high that she hits her peak at seven feet.

[00:35:56]>> Seven feet. Yes. Uhhuh. Cuz she swings up at seven feet.

[00:35:59]>> But it's her feet in the swing.

[00:36:02]>> Uhhuh.

[00:36:02]>> And she's seven years old.

[00:36:04]>> Right. So we're using the word feet with as a double entandra to have two different meanings.

[00:36:09]>> Is that injamment?

[00:36:11]>> Now enjamment is when you put two actually. Yeah. The lines could be it could be. Yeah. I hit my pick at seven feet in the swing while I was in the swing.

[00:36:19]>> I hit my pick at seven feet in the swing over the creek. So if but if your feet are in the swing, you understand how dangerous that is.

[00:36:26]>> Oh yeah. You can't you shouldn't stand on the swing >> unless you're being daring.

[00:36:32]Yeah. Yeah. And so it's ambiguous, right? Yes. Is is are we talking about the pendulum being 7 feet high like her feet are extended forward or are her feet dangerously in the seat of the swing?

[00:36:46]>> I know which one. I don't know. Ask Taylor. I was too scared to jump in.

[00:36:53]Um, you know. So, did you ever jump out of a swing?

[00:36:57]>> Oh, yes.

[00:36:57]>> Do you ever hurt yourself?

[00:36:58]>> Oh, yes.

[00:37:00]>> Yes.

[00:37:00]>> I only ever hurt myself.

[00:37:05]I know. Um, and it's so funny because I think that she uh taps into memories of childhood that are so familiar that she that we have to engage, >> you know. Um, I remember swinging high and being getting I thought I'm going to go all the way all the way. you're going to figure out how to flip over it >> practically and then the change would like jerk when you hit that place and you kind of almost scare yourself and you think I can't jump now. Let's get crazy, >> you know. So, I would almost dare myself and there were and sometimes there would be obstacles. I I remember I literally remember playing ball one time with friends and then going and swinging and we put a bat down in front and uh we tried to see if we could swing so far we could jump past >> of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:37:54]>> Yeah. Well, one of the kids landed >> on the bat.

[00:37:56]>> Oh yeah.

[00:37:57]>> Yeah.

[00:37:58]>> Of course he did.

[00:37:59]>> Yeah.

[00:38:00]>> It wasn't me. Thank goodness. Um and it was a lesson to That's a bad idea.

[00:38:05]>> Yeah.

[00:38:05]>> Yeah. Um Yeah. So literally the child is too scared to jump in. This introduces emotional conflict into our poem.

[00:38:16]>> Okay.

[00:38:17]>> Okay. We're going to see emotional conflict play a big part in this >> for sure. Yes.

[00:38:21]>> Yes. Um the child fears the water, fears maybe the feet in the seat of the swing.

[00:38:27]Um metaphorically it's life's uncertainty suspended between this kind of limitless imagination. How far can you go and fear? How you know what's too far?

[00:38:39]>> Yeah. What's going to like hold you back? Yeah.

[00:38:42]>> Right. And there's also a homonym in here. Two and two. T O excessive and too toward I was too scared to jump.

[00:38:51]>> Oh, okay. Yes. Yes. Yes.

[00:38:52]>> Yeah.

[00:38:54]>> But I I was high in the sky. Okay. She repeats the word I. Um, you know, the rhythm is necessary, but also I think that she's trying to u mimic a person who's recalling a moment >> like where you stumble a little bit.

[00:39:11]>> Right. You're saying it's like, you know, I I remember riding with my dad in a car and seeing Yeah. It's like I I you know, >> Right. Right. Right. Right.

[00:39:20]>> Right. And so I like that.

[00:39:21]>> Yeah. She's giving um she's adding a little verilitude, right? A sense of of truth and reality. Vera similitude.

[00:39:30]um Latin veritas, you know.

[00:39:32]>> Yeah. The truth serum.

[00:39:33]>> That's truth, right? Uh it's also the motto of Harvard.

[00:39:37]>> Oh, right. Of course.

[00:39:42]>> High in the sky. Okay. Internal rhyme.

[00:39:46]Um it's also >> So this is another line, I high sky with three of them.

[00:39:51]>> I high sky. Yeah.

[00:39:53]>> Wow.

[00:39:54]>> I know. Wow. She must be a poet.

[00:39:58]I think we've established that.

[00:39:59]>> I think so.

[00:40:01]>> Um it's a symbol, you know, why uh the sky, limitlessness, freedom, you know, um reaching beyond ourselves.

[00:40:12]Uh I think all of those work. It's a it's a metaphor of freedom. Um emotional transcendence, the limitless possibilities of childhood, you know, who knows what the sevenyear-old will become one day, >> you know, and that's that's the beauty of of considering the child. And then I was so interested in the next line which brings us immediately off the symbolic landscape, >> right?

[00:40:39]>> And right smack down into the world with Pennsylvania under me.

[00:40:47]>> Um, you know, and I really I worked and worked with this line, >> okay, >> because I thought, okay, so she wants to reintroduce the the facts. The fact is she was in Pennsylvania, but she says with Pennsylvania under me. And then I thought, well, no, not yet. It's the entire state. It's Pennsylvania.

[00:41:06]>> Oh, no. So, it's still not It's still not grounded in reality. The whole of the state is under her.

[00:41:12]>> It's like a dreamlike landscape where she can see the whole state stretch out in front of her. That's nice.

[00:41:18]>> Right. I'm flying so high. I'm way up here. It's like climbing a tree as a child and getting up there and and you look out and you just see for >> ever. Yeah. You think you can see the whole state.

[00:41:29]>> You see the whole state. So, it's still this symbolic landscape that is the world of the child.

[00:41:37]>> Interesting. Okay.

[00:41:38]>> How how big is the world of the child?

[00:41:41]It's immense. Right. The whole state.

[00:41:44]>> Yeah. So you've got this juxtaposition in the line between the child's imaginative perspective and the real place Pennsylvania.

[00:41:54]>> Okay.

[00:41:55]>> And and what it caused me to do was reflect on the psychology of childhood.

[00:42:01]>> Okay.

[00:42:02]>> Right. I mean, you know, for a child, the world is big. Mhm.

[00:42:06]>> Everybody's big, you know, and um I mean although the state's big, that perspective lets them wrap their arms around it just a little bit, >> right? Because obviously the world is much bigger than Pennsylvania. Yes.

[00:42:23]>> But Pennsylvania is like maybe an easier concept to grasp.

[00:42:26]>> Yes.

[00:42:29]Okay. So we come to the end of the verse.

[00:42:32]>> Uhhuh.

[00:42:34]Um, can you tell I like this one?

[00:42:36]>> Yes. This is what I was hoping for.

[00:42:39]>> Yeah. Um, so the last line, are there still beautiful things?

[00:42:45]Is so generalized, so vague, so open, and yet I think it's one of the most beautiful poignant rhetorical questions of the poem.

[00:42:58]>> Agreed.

[00:42:59]>> You know, what's she talking about? are there where what I mean the speaker is asking not necessarily about Pennsylvania right >> you know are there still beautiful things in Pennsylvania well yeah um she's asking is you know as an adult are there still beautiful things >> yeah like do I still have that can I still look through the the eyes of my seven-year-old self >> right >> and find goodness in this world that it doesn't seem so good right now.

[00:43:35]>> Yeah. Could I can I look at a tree and imagine, you know, I could put my hand on that branch and I could put my foot on that branch and I could climb up.

[00:43:47]>> I could see the whole place. I could stand on a swing and jump right over that creek. I could fly seven feet high.

[00:43:57]I could fly taller than any adult I know. Um, you know, do you still, you know, when you're swinging and you get that that heaviness as you as you penned downward toward the earth and then the lightness of being >> like a rush of >> when you're up?

[00:44:13]>> Yeah.

[00:44:13]>> Yeah. Does that still bring flutters to your stomach, >> you know, or is it just that queasy feeling in you? You wish you hadn't eaten all that old leftover spaghetti.

[00:44:22]Um, yeah. I just I think this is the the perfect climax to the end of this first stanza to say are there still beautiful things like can we still touch childhood's eye and see the beauty in the world and in our lives and >> you know still out there >> it's also fun to think of this maybe not fun but it's also interesting to think about this in the time that Taylor was writing it. So this is the pandemic album.

[00:44:52]>> Oh that's interesting. Yeah, I had not.

[00:44:54]>> So, it's interesting to think about it in the terms of, okay, here I am like barricaded in my house and I'm not supposed to go anywhere and all these people are dying and everything feels bad and half of the world believes this is fake and half of the world understands it's real and like like are there like are we going to get out of this? Like are there still good things to come, >> right? Yeah. Yeah. What is where where is the beauty now?

[00:45:22]>> Yeah. Yeah. I just uh I don't know. You know, she takes she takes one part nostalgia and one part existential uncertainty.

[00:45:32]>> Oh my gosh, that feels that that sentence you just said >> just kind of blew my that feels like the the Taylor Swift's thesis like the the the pieces of her the pieces of her thesis >> is just nostalgia and existentialism and put them and mix them up. mixes them up and gives us the perspective of a child.

[00:45:54]>> Yeah.

[00:45:55]>> Yeah. And looks for beauty in the world.

[00:45:58]>> The chorus.

[00:45:59]>> Yes.

[00:46:01]>> Sweet tea in the summer.

[00:46:04]I have no idea how she's going to sing this. It's going to it's got to be a quiet um there's got to be a sweetness to it. Um so you've got this to me. I I wrote in my notes that is a beautiful sensory time capsule.

[00:46:21]>> Absolutely. You can taste it.

[00:46:24]>> You can feel how cold and refreshing it is.

[00:46:27]>> Exactly. The temperature of it, >> sweat coming down the glass.

[00:46:30]>> That's right. And and the fact that it's summer, right? It's hot. It's bright.

[00:46:36]You're outside. You know, there's nothing like that cold glass of tea on a hot summer day.

[00:46:41]>> Yeah. Um, it's a representation of of innocence through an ordinary experience, right? It's just having a drink for goodness sakes, >> you know, but it's that special drink at a special time.

[00:46:57]>> And so, it's got wonderful sensory imagery. It's got wonderful representational symbolism. You know, why summer? Summer is that that age of youth, that age of experience, that age of growth. Um, you know, why is the tea sweet? Well, because life is sweet at that time.

[00:47:17]>> And she's a sweet little kid.

[00:47:18]>> And she's a sweet kid. Yeah.

[00:47:20]>> Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, lots going on in five whole words of the first line of the chorus. Cross your heart, won't tell no other.

[00:47:31]Okay.

[00:47:33]It's a childhood ritual. Okay.

[00:47:35]>> Cross your heart. Hope to die.

[00:47:37]>> Yes. It's a ritual of secrecy, a symbol of intimacy.

[00:47:43]So, you know, now it's like she's talking with someone else. It's a symbol of absolute trust. I'm having I'm handing my secrets over to you. Um, you'll notice the informal use of grammar, childhood diction.

[00:47:56]>> Won't tell no other.

[00:47:58]>> Won't tell. Yeah, that's a it's a double negative. Uh-huh.

[00:48:01]>> You know, now in English, we're told you're not supposed to use them. Um, that's silly.

[00:48:07]>> You've told us before that you're allowed to do that.

[00:48:09]>> That's right. You're allowed to do that.

[00:48:11]Great writers have always done it.

[00:48:12]Shakespeare does it. This the most unkindest cut of all. Multiple superlatives. Yes. Um, when you do that, you reinforce the negativity. You don't do away with it. So, you know, I will never ever ever tell anyone else.

[00:48:31]Um, and though I can't recall your face, I've still got love for you. Um, so I keep using the word poignant.

[00:48:45]She's she's talking to a childhood friend.

[00:48:48]>> And she's going to she's going to share secrets with that childhood friend and then for the life of her, she cannot quite remember the child's face.

[00:48:58]>> Yeah. And it made me stop.

[00:49:02]>> Yeah, me too.

[00:49:03]>> Does it?

[00:49:03]>> Yes. Literally every time I hear this song, this song like has a real effect on me.

[00:49:10]>> So I you know when I was in elementary school when I thought frontage roads led somewhere.

[00:49:16]Um I mean I had three great friends and they they all had funny names. Um well Jeff Jeff >> that is a funny name. You're correct.

[00:49:26]>> It sounds redundant. And then John Johnson.

[00:49:29]>> No.

[00:49:30]>> Yes.

[00:49:32]>> Certainly from a children's book.

[00:49:33]>> I know. Jeff Jeff, John Johnson. I know.

[00:49:35]It sounds like I'm making this up. And then there was Jim Nell.

[00:49:40]Yeah, that feels normal. Anyway, we were the um the four J's.

[00:49:44]>> Okay. Oh, yeah. That's cute.

[00:49:45]>> Yeah. Jeff, John, Jim, and Jerry.

[00:49:47]>> And Jeff, John, Jim, and Jerry went everywhere together. And um I saw Jim Nell's years later at at an event.

[00:49:57]didn't expect him to be there. It was so funny to see him as um someone graduated from high school.

[00:50:02]>> Yeah. Like a grown-up.

[00:50:04]>> Um the others I haven't seen. And I remember John Jeff's face. I cannot remember, you know. And it's funny because I remember his I remember he was the shortest of the the four of us. I remember he was very thin and very wiry and active. Terrific at kickball. And >> it's what you need to be as a friend at kickball. It's important.

[00:50:26]But um but the memory of his face escapes me. Um and and so I asked why, you know, why preserve the memory of the emotion but not the detail of the face?

[00:50:39]Is it too painful to recall?

[00:50:41]>> Maybe, but also I feel like how people make you feel is more important than how they looked.

[00:50:48]>> I I think that's part of it. Yeah, that's a really good analysis. Yeah. How you make me feel is more important than >> than literally anything else, you know?

[00:50:58]Like our friendship is the important part. What you looked like when you were seven is not that important to me, you know.

[00:51:05]>> Yeah. It's you know, like the first couple of times I read this, I felt like a devastating admission, you know.

[00:51:11]>> Okay. Yeah. Well, yeah, that is upsetting because it's like you were very clearly important to me, so why can't I remember your face?

[00:51:17]>> But but the fact is the next line redeems it. It took me two or three readings. Okay. Okay. It really did. Um but I realized, oh, but >> but it's the fact that the love for the person survives.

[00:51:31]>> Yeah.

[00:51:31]>> And it transcends the image that failed.

[00:51:34]>> Right.

[00:51:35]>> So, yeah. I can't remember your face, but I just I just remember how much I love you.

[00:51:39]>> Yeah.

[00:51:39]>> Um and it it really, you know, I kept I don't know. I kept thinking about the psychology of the child. It explores the psychology of autobiography, you know, um how do we shape childhood memories?

[00:51:54]You know, what impacts us as a child.

[00:51:56]>> I mentioned taking the grandkids out to main event and playing games till nearly midnight. You know, Oliver is um is 12 and I thought about myself as 12 and I thought I hope he remembers this.

[00:52:10]I thought he'll remember he'll remember the joy he shared with us if he doesn't remember how many game tickets or what or what prize he came away with.

[00:52:20]>> Specifics don't really matter in the long run.

[00:52:23]>> Yeah.

[00:52:23]>> It's the the feelings and the experience, >> right? That and that's >> and being with people.

[00:52:30]>> Yes.

[00:52:30]>> The important people.

[00:52:31]>> I think that's how the child shapes, you know, her memory in this poem.

[00:52:36]Um, so yeah, I can't recall your face and it's okay because I still got love for you. I just the simplicity of diction, you know, again, I still got love for you, you know, is very monoselabic. The way a child would talk, >> um, you know, it strips away everything else. I mean, I think what she does very delicately as a writer here is she's not giving me metaphor. She's not giving me imagery. She's not playing with other poetic devices. She she does use asinance. You notice how she ties words together. Uh God, love for you. See the O's.

[00:53:15]>> Yeah.

[00:53:15]>> Um I think the understatement of it is just so raw elemental emotion.

[00:53:23]>> Agreed.

[00:53:24]>> Right. So I don't know.

[00:53:25]>> She does that when it's necessary. She strips all this stuff away and she just like tells you what she wants you to hear, you know?

[00:53:31]>> Right. Yes. the the you know the glitzy stuff that makes her a poet drops away and that makes her a poet too.

[00:53:37]>> Right. Right. Knowing when to use things and when to not.

[00:53:41]>> Exactly. Yes. Um your braids like a pattern. Okay. So she doesn't remember her face. She remembers the emotion and she remembers the braids. Okay. So it's a simile. The braids are like a pattern.

[00:53:57]So I think she throws a simile at us because it's important. Um, you know, how are the braids symbolic? Well, a braid a braid is um connection. It's weaving lines together, you know, like >> like their their lives were woven together.

[00:54:13]>> That's exactly right. Their their lives are woven together. It's, you know, it's a continuity of friendship. It's it's a pattern and patterns are nemonic devices, >> right? The reasons why we start fairy tales once upon a time. The reasons why there are always three, you know, there are three bears and three couches and three beds, you know, is so we can remember >> and somehow the the interwoven continuity of the braid itself becomes a symbol of a pneumonic device.

[00:54:45]>> So I remember you for your braids.

[00:54:49]>> Um and then one of my I don't know if this is one of my favorite lines maybe.

[00:54:54]Um, love you to the moon and to Saturn.

[00:54:57]So, she she says she loves the other person. I still got love for you. Your brains are like a pattern. Obviously, another female child.

[00:55:05]>> Love you to the moon and to Saturn.

[00:55:08]Well, it's a cliche and im idiom.

[00:55:10]There's a typical Taylor.

[00:55:12]>> Yes.

[00:55:12]>> Taylor typically takes a cliche and then she changes it a little bit to match her work. So, it should be love you to the moon and back. Uh-huh.

[00:55:20]>> But here the child says, "I love you to moon and Saturn."

[00:55:24]>> Okay. Why Saturn? Well, it's bigger than the >> It's huge.

[00:55:28]>> It's huge. It's farther away. It's She expands her love not just to the limit of the moon, >> but to that tiny tiny dot in the sky that's this giant planet, you know. Um >> it also is kind of fun because it's like you probably like kind of just learned about Saturn, you know?

[00:55:46]>> Right. Yeah. This is an age when you're learning about dinosaurs, volcanoes, and planets.

[00:55:50]>> Yeah.

[00:55:52]>> So, yeah, she's learned about Saturn and Saturn seems like this giant place. It expands her love beyond the moon. It's right. It's like thrown out there into the cosmos, which I think is just great.

[00:56:03]>> Yeah, me too.

[00:56:04]>> You know, I think it's symbolic of immense distance. Um, it's symbolic of love immeasurable, >> right? Just lasting forever and ever.

[00:56:13]>> That's right. just it's like an infinite scale of love. Um, okay. Why Saturn? Why not Pluto? Um, you know, if it were Oliver, he'd probably say Uranus for obvious reasons because he's a 12-year-old boy.

[00:56:30]Um, you know, Saturn has a system of seven rings.

[00:56:34]>> Oh my god.

[00:56:35]>> Right. So, >> what the heck? I know the title of the poem is >> seven. Um, Saturn is also, you know, need to get my >> Yes.

[00:56:49]>> astrological delineator.

[00:56:53]>> Yeah. Astrologically, Saturn is interesting because uh there's something called the Saturn return.

[00:56:59]>> Uhhuh.

[00:57:00]>> Okay. So, you know about this. So, 29 and a half years, you know, Saturn makes its return and depends upon where it is when you were born. Yeah. Sometime between like 28 and 30. That's right.

[00:57:10]>> Yeah. You have your Saturn return.

[00:57:12]>> That's right. So, you know, you're born and then at approximately age 30, you get your first Saturn return. Well, why 30? Well, you're in your early adulthood. You're finding out life and jobs and all that stuff. And then again at age 60. Well, now you're approaching retirement.

[00:57:34]And again at age 90 if you're lucky.

[00:57:37]>> Gosh, that's crazy. Grandommy and like your mom have been through three Saturn returns.

[00:57:42]>> They certainly have. Yeah.

[00:57:43]>> Wow.

[00:57:43]>> My dad did too.

[00:57:45]>> Yeah.

[00:57:45]>> So, uh, yeah. I, you know, so it's symbolic of cycles of life.

[00:57:50]>> Right.

[00:57:51]>> Right. So, you know, I love you to the moon and to Saturn. Um, I think she's also implying throughout my entire life.

[00:57:59]>> Right.

[00:57:59]>> Right. So when I'm 30, I'll remember you here as writing the song. When I'm 60, you'll still be in my memory. And >> wait, >> if I live to 90, I'll still remember you.

[00:58:10]>> Taylor literally was 30 when she was writing this.

[00:58:13]>> Was she literally 30?

[00:58:14]>> Yeah.

[00:58:16]>> Well, I think Saturn is a really good choice instead of Uranus.

[00:58:23]>> Yes. Um, Saturn can also be a symbol of karma, can be discipline. It's a taskmaster. It can be um structure. So, there are a lot of reasons why Saturn is just the perfect choice for this.

[00:58:36]>> Taylor has a song called Karma. Just putting that out there.

[00:58:39]>> Oh, >> they all just heard it. You heard you say that. I just I just need to say it.

[00:58:46]>> Yeah. They talk You guys talk about when she rolls her eyes when I say one of these things, huh?

[00:58:52]>> Um you know, it's not poetically a beautiful line. I just think it's kind of perfect for this poem.

[00:58:58]>> I Yeah. I just love it because it it's clunky in the way that a kid would say it.

[00:59:03]>> Yeah.

[00:59:04]>> And but when she sings it, it's it's fun to sing. Like there's something about the the the the poetics of it or the the melody, I don't know, but it's fun to sing. I think this is probably one of the lines that people use the most is like people get it tattooed. Probably you could ask Chase like >> really they put this on. Oh to the moon is Saturn like or they get just a m like I've seen like friend tattoos or something like somebody will have a moon and somebody will have a Saturn which I love that. Um you can who knows how many cards and stuff I've put this into Chase, you know. We could ask him. I I use it all the time. It's just such a fun line.

[00:59:42]>> Mhm. So are you guys getting tattooed or >> maybe?

[00:59:47]>> Really?

[00:59:47]>> No. Well, we did get tattoos >> when we went to New York this year.

[00:59:51]>> Oh, okay. The show.

[00:59:53]>> It's a soup dumpling.

[00:59:54]>> A soup dumpling. Well, yeah. It's funny because Leslie and I were talking about, "Hey, how about that soup dumpling tattoo?"

[01:00:03]Wow.

[01:00:04]>> We always eat soup dumplings in New York City and we were in New York and I was like, we didn't have any plans. I was like, we should get tattoos. It sounds fun to get a tattoo in New York City.

[01:00:12]>> And then I was like, let's get soup dumplings. And here we are.

[01:00:20]And you people make a big deal out of the things you learn about me.

[01:00:25]She's got a soup dumpling tattoo.

[01:00:26]>> This time I'm going to get a new a moon and Chase is going to get a Saturn.

[01:00:30]>> Oh, that'd be so cute.

[01:00:34]Okay, next line.

[01:00:36]>> Yes.

[01:00:38]>> Passed down like folk songs. Um like folk songs of simile. Mhm.

[01:00:45]>> It would seem to be central to the album since it's titled folklore.

[01:00:49]>> Yes.

[01:00:50]>> Um, friendship is like folk songs because it lies in the oral tradition.

[01:00:55]Right.

[01:00:55]>> Right. Folk songs um are sung and passed down generation after generation.

[01:01:00]Friendship does that. You know, it's >> um it's interesting because uh you know both my girls reached out to me this week. Uh Diana and I would have passed our wedding anniversary. Yes.

[01:01:14]>> So, um, you know, she passed away and and I had to send them a couple of stories about that day.

[01:01:21]>> Okay. Yeah.

[01:01:22]>> You know, they weren't there.

[01:01:23]>> No.

[01:01:24]>> No. Um, >> yeah. But you're you're passing it on like folk songs.

[01:01:29]>> I was passing it on like folk songs. And Yeah. And then I read this and I thought, "Oh, that's very sweet. That's kind of what I did was passing that story on." You know, those are stories that they won't know. And and soon no one will know. Well, I mean, you know, since Diana passed away and uh you know, the only person who might remember might be your mom.

[01:01:47]>> Yeah.

[01:01:48]>> You know, and and thank goodness she doesn't know everything.

[01:01:53]>> Oh, no. She's going to call you after this.

[01:01:56]>> Maybe >> my dad's going to call and say, "Listen, Jerry. Yeah, >> we're going to need to know those stories."

[01:02:01]>> Those stories. Yeah. Um I just uh you know and the fact that they had stories again underscores the braids as community right that that these two lives are inter intertwined they're interwoven that you know love survives more through the retelling than it does through documentation >> you know I mean you can see Kathleen put on her um Instagram my daughter um a picture of of us the day we were married. And so she's got a picture and it's a great picture. I'm somewhat thinner. Um >> hair's a different color.

[01:02:42]>> Hair's a different color. Yes. But um but you know, unlike the common idiom that the picture would tell a thousand, you know, >> worth a thousand >> worth a thousand words. uh you know there it's it's only in the telling of the stories that you can document the actual love the actual moment right >> and the survivability of their love in this poem certainly depends on that >> yeah depends on talking about it >> that's right that's why she says the love lasts so long you know so she she kind of completes the simile of the previous line passed down like folk songs the love lasts so song that the memory preserves that affection.

[01:03:27]>> Right.

[01:03:28]>> And we're at the end of that chorus.

[01:03:31]>> The chorus.

[01:03:32]>> The bridge.

[01:03:36]>> I love this bridge.

[01:03:38]>> And I've been meaning to tell you. Okay.

[01:03:41]So, a shift to the second person direct address.

[01:03:44]>> Yes.

[01:03:45]>> Uh who's the you? Who's the narrator talking with? Um the narrator becomes really emotionally present um here in this line um almost reluctantly because she says I've been meaning to I've been hesitant to >> um still talking to her friend I think I think your house is haunted.

[01:04:09]I just love that line the first time when you know you said this to me and I read through it the first time and I hit the haunted line. I thought that is so perfect. You know, what kid doesn't thrive on the story of a house being haunted?

[01:04:26]>> Um, it's a lovely example of childhood misunderstandings.

[01:04:30]>> Absolutely. Yes.

[01:04:31]>> It is frontage road.

[01:04:33]>> Yes.

[01:04:34]>> Yes.

[01:04:35]>> Right. Um, yes. I think your house is haunted. Um, your dad is always mad and that must be why.

[01:04:46]Um, and I think you should come live with me and we can be pirates.

[01:04:51]Then you won't have to cry or hide in the closet. Um, I'm sorry I had to read that all together.

[01:04:57]>> That's so good.

[01:04:59]>> Yeah. Um, so the child misunderstands a situation.

[01:05:03]>> Yes.

[01:05:04]>> And we don't know what the situation is.

[01:05:07]Um, I don't think that the narrator in the poem understands a situation.

[01:05:12]>> Right.

[01:05:12]>> Right. The adult narrator never was privy to understand what was wrong in the house.

[01:05:18]>> Yeah. What was going on with dad, >> right?

[01:05:20]>> Yeah.

[01:05:21]>> Um, you know, it's a it's a child's attempt to explain the world that they don't understand. And so they reach out and the only thing they can think of is ghosts.

[01:05:32]>> Yeah. There must be ghosts here, >> right? Yeah. It's like the supernatural imagination takes over >> and now we've got an explanation.

[01:05:40]There's got to be goats.

[01:05:42]>> Yeah. And it's kind of like she's like, "Well, my dad isn't mad." Like my dad's never really mad, >> right?

[01:05:46]>> And my house doesn't have ghosts, >> right?

[01:05:49]>> So your dad is mad, so it must be ghosts, >> you know. And I have to say this touched a lot of places in my childhood because I thought about exactly what you just said. You know, my parents were were loving, caring, wonderful people. you know them.

[01:06:06]>> Yes.

[01:06:06]>> And um you know and I I lived a lovely idyllic childhood and there was a kid on our block that I knew had trouble >> and I didn't understand. I didn't know why. I I didn't get it.

[01:06:20]>> Yeah. Because it's not your experience.

[01:06:21]And at that point in your life, >> you only know what you know. You only know what you've experienced.

[01:06:27]>> Yeah. You can say, "Thank you for those blessings that I had." And I, you know, I never thought he was haunted, though.

[01:06:34]But I like this um you know haunting I think is a symbol obvious symbol of um domestic dysfunction. Right. Right.

[01:06:41]Something's dysfunctional in the house.

[01:06:44]>> Um the use of the word house is matonomy by the way. It represents you know that's when you represent something. So it actually means the family. I think your family is haunted. Something's >> your dad is always mad. Um and that's dramatic irony. So now we know more than the narrator in the than the child >> because now we're understanding like >> oh >> yeah something's wrong you know is he >> does he have an abuse problem is he is he physically abusive to her you know sexually abusive abusive to other people >> um you know what's the catalog of reasons why you know does he have uh drug alcohol gambling money what is it you know and so we intervene on behalf of supernatural Right. Right.

[01:07:31]>> Because the the child, you know, the child recognizes abuse and and adult anger but can't reconcile herself to it.

[01:07:41]>> Yeah. Because this is not something that I've ever experienced. So, it doesn't make sense.

[01:07:45]>> Yeah. Doesn't it doesn't cross my experience.

[01:07:48]>> Um I think you should come live with me.

[01:07:50]>> Yeah.

[01:07:50]>> Okay. So, we've got compassion in its purest form, right? I mean, I'll reach out. And now it's like I'm I'm feeling like that scene in Forest Gump when Jenna gets to go live with her grandmother.

[01:08:05]>> Um, you know, solutions are simple, >> right?

[01:08:08]>> You know, love fixes suffering. Yeah. If you >> My house is full of love.

[01:08:13]>> That's right.

[01:08:14]>> Come live with me.

[01:08:15]>> Come live with me. And guess what we'll do? We can be pirates.

[01:08:20]Which I just love that.

[01:08:22]>> I know. It's just so cute.

[01:08:24]>> Yes. And now I'm like channeling sense and sensibility where Margaret, the youngest child, you know, obviously wants to go off and be an adventurer.

[01:08:33]>> Um, you know, pirates I think symbolic pirates are free. Um, pirates can do what they want. They're swishbuckling.

[01:08:40]They're, you know, they're just like, wait, another character maybe Peter.

[01:08:45]>> Yeah, they don't. There's no rules to be Peter or to be pirate.

[01:08:49]>> Stay up as long as you want. Get your sword out, shine it, and sharpen it. Um, yes, it is. This is like the child's uh version of an es an adult escape fantasy, right? I want to go to Pago PGO and live on the beach.

[01:09:05]>> No, I want to be a pirate.

[01:09:08]>> Um, and I think that the the adventure is an offer of emotional rescue, >> you know. Um, because then you won't have to cry, >> right? you know very simple diction again we we strip away the literary devices like symbols and she just says you know I don't want you to cry you know the child identifies with suffering >> um she just misunderstands the causes >> right >> and or hide in the closet then I wrote in my notes I think that's the poem's darkest image >> you know because I can see a child hiding in a closet Yeah.

[01:09:49]>> And um >> dad and mom are in a fight.

[01:09:52]>> Yes.

[01:09:53]>> She's crying, hiding in a closet. Maybe sometime the friend the the narrator was at her house when this happened and so she experienced it firsthand like her friend crying in the closet, you know.

[01:10:06]>> Yeah.

[01:10:08]Yeah. And the closet, I think, is a symbol of, you know, fear, secrecy, survival.

[01:10:14]um you know early in the poem she says she crosses her heart and swears not to tell >> it is that secrecy there's a secret you know um and I made a note actually on this one I said the fact that uh Swift never explains why the child hides why is the adult a threat and it makes the image more powerful it really does um you know if you watch horror movies I'm I'm not really a big fan of horror movies. Um, but the best horror movies to me are the ones that imply threat.

[01:10:49]>> Right. Right.

[01:10:51]>> You know, in there's a great moment in Silence of the Lambs, >> which is a great horror movie.

[01:10:56]>> Yeah.

[01:10:57]>> And uh it's it's when Clarice is going to go see Lechner for the very first time. And the curator of the sanitarium says, "Don't get near him. Don't touch anything."

[01:11:12]He says, "This is the last time someone got close to him." And he hands her some pictures of a nurse and he says, "We managed to reconstruct most of her nose, you know, and we don't see the pictures."

[01:11:26]>> Right.

[01:11:26]>> Right. We see her face looking at the pictures, >> but we don't see the pictures. And and she pulls the same trick here. We've got this pathetic image of a child hiding in a closet and we don't know why, but I think it it's what gives it its powerful impact. Well, and that also allows you um to put yourself into >> it does >> that no matter what your situation was, if you did have something bad happen to you when you were a kid, no matter what it was, you can maybe >> put this this then then it makes the whole song be able to like transfer into your >> into my life. Yes. In Yeah. It's what Edgar Allen Poe called that window the open the open window that the best authors leave for the readers.

[01:12:15]>> Yes.

[01:12:16]>> Yeah. So just like a folk song, our love will be passed on. So repetition creates structural unity here. It also stresses the link to the theme about folk lore, folk tales. Um and notice in the last line the shift from uh the love will be passed on to our love will be passed on.

[01:12:38]>> I never noticed that.

[01:12:39]>> Yeah. So that their relationship becomes a kind of legacy of love and memory.

[01:12:44]>> Yeah. So, we change the word and she'll do that later on, too. Um, in the very next line.

[01:12:51]>> Yes.

[01:12:53]>> Verse two. Oh, we're so close to the end.

[01:12:58]>> This is a sweet little song. Like, there's not >> It is.

[01:13:01]>> It's kind of perfectly packaged.

[01:13:02]>> Four stanzas. Yeah. Yeah. Um, verse two, please picture me in the woods. Okay.

[01:13:08]Note that in in the weeds instead of saying please picture me in the trees it becomes the weeds.

[01:13:15]>> Okay. So trees imply heightened perspective grandeur you know beauty.

[01:13:22]Weeds are wildness. They choke out other life forms. Trees shade and protect.

[01:13:30]Weeds kill.

[01:13:33]>> Okay. Yeah.

[01:13:34]>> Yeah. So she does this word substitution thing that she, you know, in the previous line the love changes to our love and in this line trees changes to weeds.

[01:13:44]>> Yeah, that's nice.

[01:13:46]>> Uh before I learned civility, what is civility? Social conditioning, right? Before I was socially conditioned not to say the things we're not supposed to admit to. Before I had an adult understanding of the world and I could just say anything I wanted to.

[01:14:03]>> Yeah. Before I learned how to cover up my authentic childhood expressions.

[01:14:10]>> Yeah. Before I had to learn to like keep things in and not, you know, not throw tantrums and >> Right.

[01:14:17]>> Mhm.

[01:14:18]>> Yeah. Do I look good in this shirt?

[01:14:22]Your answer is, "Well, of course you do.

[01:14:24]>> Of course you do."

[01:14:26]>> Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Does this make me look fat?

[01:14:30]>> No. Never.

[01:14:31]>> Okay. Good.

[01:14:34]Yeah. Um, civility is is just a way of of covering up >> authenticity. Oh, >> authenticity. I used to scream ferociously. Okay. So, this line surprised me.

[01:14:46]>> Okay.

[01:14:46]>> As a reader, um, it captures her emotional honesty um at at finally understanding what was what went on with her friend. Right. anytime I wanted.

[01:15:02]Um, and then she pauses and says I I repetition pauses of memory remembering the past. You know, she's trying to think about that. She's trying to think what what did happen? Something happened. What was it that caused her friend this anxiety? Um, does she know even as an adult?

[01:15:29]>> Yep.

[01:15:29]>> She doesn't know. Um, so we go back to the chorus. Sweet tea in the summer.

[01:15:36]That beautiful tactile image. Cross my heart, won't tell no other. Okay. Notice that there's a change from um cross your heart to cross my heart.

[01:15:50]So she's lost track of the other person.

[01:15:53]Um the promise belongs now only to the narrator herself.

[01:15:56]>> Right.

[01:15:57]>> Right. Just like my memories of my wedding day, you know, are are only mine, you know. Um and and it's those are the memories that are hard, you know, the and the ones sometimes you want to keep dearest. Though I can't recall your face, memory continues to fade. I still got love for you. Pack your dolls and a sweater. Isn't that all that a child would need?

[01:16:20]>> Dolls in a sweater.

[01:16:22]>> I know. Why dolls? Companionship symbol.

[01:16:26]>> Why a sweater? Warmth, love, comfort, right? It's a symbol. It's all you need.

[01:16:33]All you need is companionship, warmth, love.

[01:16:39]We'll move to India forever. This is like that fantasy like being a pirate, >> right?

[01:16:45]>> Um why India? It doesn't matter. It's a it's a symbol. It's not geography.

[01:16:50]Right.

[01:16:51]>> Right. India is far far away and they do crazy things and they have interesting food and wonderful smells and you know they're they're different and mythical.

[01:17:02]Yeah.

[01:17:02]>> You know, it's like a mythical destination.

[01:17:04]>> Yeah. It doesn't it it kind of doesn't seem as a as a child any any faroff place like doesn't it's not it doesn't seem real, >> right?

[01:17:12]>> It's just a concept.

[01:17:13]>> It and it's the concept of escape and of freedom, right? We're just going to go there together. Um, yeah, there's a great poem by Andrew Marll, um, this 17th century writer called To His Koi Mistress and he's talking to his girlfriend trying to get her to come along with and he says, "I would love you from the umber to the Ganges." So the umber is in central England. Ganges is all the way in India, right? the other side of the world. You know that that most distant land, that mythical place passed down like folk songs. This is the third time it appears. Solidifies the central theme. Our love lasts so long. I actually felt a triumphal sense of emotional memory with that.

[01:18:00]>> I think I agree too. Like yeah, because >> I hope so.

[01:18:03]>> Yeah. ending it with that line is like it it doesn't none of it really matters because we know like this friendship that we had like both of us probably remember like how safe and happy it was you know >> Yeah. And I'm recalling that now that I'm 30, I'll recall it when I'm 60.

[01:18:23]>> And you know, if it happens, I'll recall it when I'm 90 again.

[01:18:26]>> Yeah.

[01:18:27]>> And we like we just I'm just always going to remember fondly these childhood memories with this one person.

[01:18:33]>> Yeah. It's like that that emotional memory conquers all sense of chronologic time, >> right? It just transcends it. Love can transcend that. It it doesn't matter. I don't need to document the memory. I don't need a picture of you. I don't even need to remember your face. I just need to remember the feelings we shared.

[01:18:52]>> And that's the end of a very lovely song.

[01:18:54]>> So lovely.

[01:18:56]>> It really is. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I made a list of the the different devices, the extended symbolism, the pastoral imagery that runs throughout, the use of dramatic irony that contrast adult understanding versus childhood innocence. Um, you know, the the escape the escapist metaphors, the juxtaposition between wonderment and suffering, you know, swinging and hiding.

[01:19:25]>> Mhm.

[01:19:26]>> Um, >> that's kind of sad.

[01:19:28]>> It is, isn't it?

[01:19:29]>> Yeah.

[01:19:29]>> But but there's a beauty at the end, you know. There's a beauty waiting in the memory at the end. um you know the fragmented narration that kind of mimics memor memory the I I you know the the hesitant fragmented idea >> um I don't know I just thought it was uh lovely lovely stuff >> that's what I hoped you would feel >> yeah want to hear my closing statement >> I do >> okay I'm going to do this I I like this I sat down and just like started writing you know what I felt about so I say seven suggests that childhood is not merely a period of innocence, but a way of perceiving the world in which imagination, compassion, and emotional truth coexist.

[01:20:15]Where children often lack the vocabulary to understand suffering, they instinctively recognize pain and respond with unconditional love. The song proposes that memory does not preserve every factual detail. But we may forget places, faces, events, but it does faithfully preserve the emotional significance of our early relationships.

[01:20:40]Like a folk song, love survives not because it remains unchanged, but because it continues to be remembered, to be retold, and to be carried forward.

[01:20:52]That's what love.

[01:20:53]>> Beautiful.

[01:20:53]>> Thank you very much. I like this.

[01:20:57]And if I if I can also add um you know you know I'm constantly saying I'm constantly telling you people oh it reminds me of this poet or that poet or something. It it does remind me of Mary Oliver.

[01:21:10]>> Okay. I love Mary Oliver.

[01:21:11]>> Uh I think she's amazing. I mean you know I mean of course the fact that she won a national book award and a Puliter Prize might tell you that other people >> kind of like her a little bit.

[01:21:22]>> Doesn't really matter what our opinions are.

[01:21:23]>> Yeah. It has that quiet emotional power.

[01:21:26]It has that simplicity of language. Um, and yet the use of literary devices. Um, and it it has the pastoral references that Mary Oliver is kind of typical for.

[01:21:37]So, yeah, it it made me want to reach up and grab my copy of her um 1984 Puliter Prizewinning collection. And uh you know when you're when you're not feeling great or when you just want a pleasant afternoon, Mary Oliver, you can take that.

[01:21:55]>> Absolutely.

[01:21:56]>> Yeah. So um so what does this sound like?

[01:22:01]>> Okay. Okay. So we are going to um watch the lyric video.

[01:22:07]Um I I keep struggling with how how I feel like there's like a hundred things I can show you right now. And this song like I don't know. I just love it so much. So, we are going to watch the lyric video. We are also going to watch at the era tour um as we were going into the folklore era and as Taylor was backstage like changing. So, the the the stage kind of changes and there's always like something going on and as we go into the folklore era, she does not sing seven, but she does a spoken word.

[01:22:39]>> Oh, does she >> like Oh, really?

[01:22:41]>> of seven. So, we're going to watch that.

[01:22:43]>> Okay. And then maybe that's it. There's also obviously your favorite long puddle. Um there is that version, but maybe we might save that because I just I really want to watch like obviously you need to hear the original version and then I want you to hear the spoken word.

[01:22:58]>> Okay, great.

[01:22:59]>> Okay, we'll be back.

[01:23:06]>> Well, sorry I missed it.

[01:23:11]Yeah, the latter half of today's recording has been kind of lowkey because it's I don't know. It's just um it it's a loveliness to touch on.

[01:23:20]>> It is. Yeah.

[01:23:21]>> Yeah. This poem is the kind of thing that you would read and and just stop and think about.

[01:23:26]>> Yeah. It just kind of sticks.

[01:23:27]>> It does. Yeah.

[01:23:28]>> Yeah.

[01:23:29]>> Yes. I liked it very much.

[01:23:32]>> Good. Yeah. Anything else you want to grade?

[01:23:35]>> Um yeah, I mean I guess I guess I'll grade.

[01:23:38]>> Okay. I just um >> You have thoughts on this what you just heard?

[01:23:41]>> No, I mean uh it was kind of fun hearing her read it. Like I said, I um you never know quite what somebody else is going to read their own poetry like.

[01:23:51]>> Yeah. And it's interesting with Taylor because we we hear her sing her poetry as as we're going through it, but not very often do we hear her just speak it.

[01:24:04]>> Yeah. just exploring that balance in the poem between nostalgia and grief is really interesting to me. So >> yeah, >> and it does make you touch and reflect on your own life. And I mean, you know, I I've spent my life in education, right? I mean, from the moment I graduated from an undergraduate, um I mean, my first job was teaching in a high school and and I taught >> um you know, history and English and Latin um among other things. I taught Latin to eighth graders.

[01:24:35]>> Oh gosh.

[01:24:37]>> Um but you know, having spent a lifetime as an educator with students, um you know, even in a graduate class, there's a uh there's a wonderful dedication that occurs and it makes you you just have to be empathetic with their lives and you have to know that in some way you're changing who they are and who they will be, >> right? you know, and so when I read a poem like this, it does profoundly affect me. So, >> yeah, >> there you go.

[01:25:06]>> Good.

[01:25:08]>> Okay.

[01:25:08]>> Okay, >> I'll shut up.

[01:25:10]>> Seven from folklore. Lyrical strength.

[01:25:15]>> Oh gosh. Uh, can I just give it 100? Can I do that?

[01:25:20]>> You're absolutely allowed to do that.

[01:25:22]>> Yeah, I I really liked it.

[01:25:24]>> Okay. Narrative and structure.

[01:25:27]>> I love the four stanzas greatness. Um, I liked the modulation back and forth between the the childhood, the voice of the childhood memory and almost the voice of the adult. We don't quite get to the voice of the adult, but yeah.

[01:25:42]>> Um, 99.

[01:25:43]>> Okay. Oh, goodness. Production and atmosphere.

[01:25:47]>> I mean, it's a lovely song, you know.

[01:25:49]Um, I mean, I would I would listen to it again. I would come closer to reading it as a poem than I would listening to the song. But it's a lovely song. Um 94.

[01:26:00]>> Okay. Um lore and literary references.

[01:26:05]>> Yeah. Um that's got to be 100. She knew when to put when to infuse the line with it and she knew when to release the line for its own emotional power.

[01:26:17]>> Agreed. Yeah.

[01:26:17]>> Right.

[01:26:18]>> Um and emotional impacts.

[01:26:21]>> Oh, I'd say that's a 72.

[01:26:23]Yeah.

[01:26:26]No, I every time I read it and I read it over and over and over again, you know, every time I read it, it it grew in its impact.

[01:26:35]>> That's what happened to me. This song did not hit me first listen like it it even the first couple of months, I think, and then all of a sudden I was like, "Oh my god, what am I listening to?" You know, >> it like takes a second. But >> so I'll give her 100 on that. That's >> Oh my goodness. Okay, that gives us a 98.6. So, we're gonna rain that round that up to a 99.

[01:26:56]>> Okay. It's uh it's right up there for me. Yeah. It's really good. It's um almost as good as Peter for me.

[01:27:04]>> Yeah, I think so, too.

[01:27:06]>> Yeah. It's just loveliness.

[01:27:07]>> Yeah. Wow. I did a good job picking this one for >> for the hundth.

[01:27:12]>> I I was like for the >> for the one year. Yeah. I was like, I just feel like we need like a perfect song and I was like, I don't know what to choose. But but we got there.

[01:27:22]>> It's really good. Yeah.

[01:27:24]>> Yeah. It's a it's I would say it's a master work in in just what I kind of said is when to use the device and when to relent from the device. You know what I mean?

[01:27:37]>> Yeah.

[01:27:37]>> Um and I think the best poets, Mary Oliver, um know when to do that.

[01:27:42]>> Yeah.

[01:27:42]>> And that this song reflects that. There are times, there have been times once or twice where I thought that Taylor Swift was just showing off a little, >> which is not a bad thing.

[01:27:54]>> Like, look what I can do, >> right? Yeah. She's got the poetic chops, you know, tried them out. But, um, but this one, she, you know, she she worked us.

[01:28:05]>> Uhhuh. Yeah. She knows when to pull back when to >> Okay.

[01:28:11]>> All right.

[01:28:11]>> That was a good one.

[01:28:12]>> Yeah, that was really fun. Nice choice.

[01:28:15]>> I feel better. I feel like I passed a test today.

[01:28:19]Like I know what you're going to like.

[01:28:20]>> Yeah.

[01:28:21]>> Okay. Um, keep following us everywhere.

[01:28:24]Make sure you're subscribed wherever you listen. And if you could give us ratings and reviews, five stars, please, anywhere that you listen to this, that would be great. And you can follow along on social media at Instagram and Tik Tok at Swifty and Scholarpod. You can follow Uncle Jerry at Dr. Uncle Jerry on Instagram. You can follow me on Instagram at Angela Y McDow and we will be back with something else next week.

[01:28:49]Bye.