Do The Markets Run Britain?

Added: 2026-06-01

[00:00:00]Two markets run Britain.

[00:00:02]>> The economics is there and in front of you. You can't play loose and fast with people's livelihood. So, Murdoch is the most revered, the most powerful person.

[00:00:10]He said it himself, "I they don't pay any notice of me in Europe, but when I go into Westminster, they all stand up and doff their caps."

[00:00:18]>> Who would you like to see on the final episode of the Sunday Roast before we break up for the summer? Leave your name in the comments and in the live chat.

[00:00:27]One name per person. I mean, this is These are like typical A-level questions. Who really has power in Britain? Is it the royal family?

[00:00:41]Welcome everyone to the Sunday Roast and welcome new guest Z, the reluctant accountant. How's it going?

[00:00:48]>> It's going very well. I'm melting slowly, but um apart from that, I'm very happy to be here. Thank you for inviting me.

[00:00:54]>> Absolute pleasure. Um Instagrammer, a former chartered accountant, I think is the >> I feel like I'm still a chartered accountant and they didn't take it away yet. [laughter] Give me time to bring the institute into disrepute. There's still time. Um but no, yeah, I'm a I'm actually a fellow cuz I'm very old. I'm a fellow of the um ace ICAEW. Um but just reluctantly, I well, there's a a bit of a story behind reluctant accountant, but I would just say I haven't ever really worked as an accountant. So, and a lot of accountants haven't. So, they they may be chartered accountants, but they go through from an audit group background or something like that and they study and they pass the test. And but I So, when people ask me to do their accounts, my answer is no.

[00:01:38]>> [laughter] >> Um cuz it's very boring uh as well. I I can do accounts. I could pull accounts together and I understand it, but I just, you know.

[00:01:47]>> I'm not finding that with your Instagram and TikTok accounts. I'm like blown away at how good they are explaining really complex and frankly should be boring, but not boring points and economics. Like this this It reminds me of Robert Reich in many ways.

[00:02:02]He's a very interesting YouTuber who does a similar thing. Um welcome Liz. How you doing?

[00:02:10]>> Hello, I'm very good. I'm going to say to you on the boiling point part thing the weather this time next week is going to be back to 15-16 degrees and it's going to be very wet next week. So make the most of it.

[00:02:22]>> Perfect British weather. That's the British summer isn't it?

[00:02:25]>> Yeah.

[00:02:26]>> That's scorch, wet or cold.

[00:02:28]>> [laughter] >> Um The question for today two markets run Britain. Now see we say to all of our guests come on with the topic. I think that's the question that really encapsulates the topic that you want to discuss this week. Do you think that's fair? Do markets run Britain?

[00:02:46]>> You know it is a fair. I think that's fair. Um I think it's been really interesting because I've recently spoken about uh I'm not sure what show she was on actually but I you know I don't know if you saw Diane Abbott the MP was on um some political show. I'm really sorry I can't remember what the other lady's name is and um they were talking about Andy Burnham's leadership race or his kind of leadership journey and you know whether Andy Burnham is right for the markets and um Diane Abbott made the point and I think it's a very good one that if the British government is just going to be beholden at the behest of the bond markets then MPs might as well go home.

[00:03:25]And it has it's something that was really important that she said and I think the the other guest rolled their eyes and and the the host started giggling at it as like oh my god Diane Abbott cuz they they like to do that thing. But what she's saying fundamentally is true, right? And it's not a case of um oh whether the bond markets exist or they don't exist and what the relationship is. We we understand that relationship. When governments want to raise money or when they want to borrow money they often go to the bond markets and they get these gilts. The The issue is this.

[00:03:56]>> Can I ask Can I ask just for our audience, can you describe what the bond market is and what the gilts are? Cuz I bet you, even I've struggled with this and I forget every so often and I'm, you know, deep in the politics. Would you be able to explain to the audience what they are?

[00:04:11]>> I don't know that I'd be able to explain what they are in in a way that kind of um reaches everybody, but just think of it as um it's almost like Now you've put me on the spot. I normally think about these things. Um it's almost When the When the government, as I said, when they want to raise money, these are the markets that they go to and then they What they have is they um sell these bonds and they they will then get money in for these bonds that are like not >> Yeah, they they are bonds and I'm thinking like everyone cuz pe- people tend to think of when you say things like bonds, they're like, "Oh, is that a physical thing?" Well, no, cuz at the moment we're all digital, so everything will just be about money transferring.

[00:04:50]What they will be is like a loan and then you will have what they is known as a yield on the back end and what the expectation is that that will be that will be the person that's bought these bonds will expect this yield or this um income to come in from the government. So, we're going to be able to We have to as a government pay over this amount as a cost of our borrowing.

[00:05:12]The issue is that we need to borrow a lot of money. We are in a lot of debt as a country um and to invest in certain infrastructure or make certain promises or fulfill certain promises that people make in their manifestos, they need money from it and sometimes taxation, a lot of the time taxation won't cover that. So, what they'll do is they'll go to these markets and they'll go, "Oh, I need a loan for It's not going to be 100,000 pounds, but I like to work in round numbers, so let's just say it's 100,000 pounds. They go in and they And so, what the the markets will say will be like, "Okay, cool. We think that you're a really stable government. You seem to know what you're doing, your taxation is coming in, you've got a lid of certain things, everything seems relatively stable, the percentage the yield is going to be 5% and that's what we would be paying over.

[00:05:56]The problem is when other things intersect with that. So, if there's, you know, inflation, if there's higher interest rates or whatever, and our debt starts to go up, we may be in a position where we're in a deficit or we're not we're not gathering as much tax revenues as we can to be able to service the debt that we have. Or if we look shaky. So, people will remember and I think I referenced this, the amazing budget that Liz's namesake came out with, Liz Truss.

[00:06:27]When she >> [laughter] >> Can't come running like that.

[00:06:32]>> I'm not you're obviously my favorite Liz, come on, like be serious.

[00:06:34][laughter] But, she came in and she was like, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to cut taxes.

[00:06:41]And she forgot that everything is connected and these is this is one of the things that I talk about, right? You can't just go in and go, I'm going to cut taxes because money needs to come from somewhere. Like we have things that we need to service, we have an NHS, we have public services and we have other things that we need to do. And so, the bond market was like, hold on, what do you what do you mean? What are you doing? And everything kind of screeched to a halt and everything it took a while for the reparations to come from this off the back of this. It took a while for this to be repaired and the economy and we're still >> pushing about this. They've got advisors, you know, I mean, they've got the Treasury for God's sake. I mean, how >> why it's based on ideology a lot of the time and not economics, right? And I think that there are sometimes where you have to think about ideologically what kind of environment and and world and nation do you want to live in and that does play a role. But, there's also when economics is there and in front of you, you can't play loose and fast with people's livelihoods and that's essentially what they did. She went in they went in and they wanted to put in their vision of what we how we promised low taxes, so let's just cut them. Let's do this. And the bond market reacted really badly to it. And so, since then, and if you've been in the UK, you will remember this, we've had a procession of different leaders vying.

[00:07:57]It's been like this almost Shakespearean tragedy of people coming up and stabbing each other in the back on the parts of the Tories to be able to get into that kind of final position. And so, coming on to labor now, which is really interesting when Kier Starmer gets into power, labor believe that they've won the popular vote. They believe that they, you know, like we're really great and we're and and the market saw Starmer as kind of boring, which he kind of is, and kind of stable. The issue is that labor didn't win, the Tories lost the last election. And I think that I don't know why they wouldn't see that because it's very clear. If you look at the data and you look at the statistics and you look at the voting, a lot of the time also Reform split the Tory vote, which is ridiculous to think that people went through 14 years of austerity and they still were going to vote Tory on the back of that. But they split a lot of the votes where the Tories might still have won if Reform hadn't come in there and split that vote, right?

[00:08:53]So, Starmer comes in and thinks, oh like I'm I've won this. Like I'm they love me. The people love me, right? And so, he's going and and doing whatever he does, but he's he's also not making any bones about his pandering to certain right-wing ideology as well. So, what you're having now and you're seeing in the the labor movement now is you're seeing this kind of split in people that are shifting away because they don't support certain things. And there are things that he could do outrightly, and whether you think it's right or wrong, to help repair the state that we have in the economy. So, there are things that he could do. For example, one of the biggest things that we have as a problem is that we are not part of a single market with Europe, right? We left in Brexit. This is one of the biggest things.

[00:09:36]But because he thought he was just so popular, I got in without that. So, I can carry on doing this. He's been like, "Oh, there's no chance." And as time goes by and you know, he loses a by-election here and there's a bit of a backlash here and whatever, he's realizing that maybe maybe he wasn't popular. Maybe he didn't win. Maybe he was just the person in the position when the Tories finally lost. And so now he's have they're having these conversations and trying to do things to bring us closer. But, unfortunately, sometimes you need to be actually quite bold about things. You need to be kind of bold and and say, "This is what's best for the economy. This is what's best for the people that I'm been elected to serve."

[00:10:14]And so, to come back from that and to walk it back a little bit, I think after this by-election that we've just seen where, you know, Reform has done well in certain parts, the Green Party have done well in certain parts, he's realizing that actually maybe he's not the man for the job and that's why we're having this talk about Andy Burnham going for I think it's Makersfield he's going for.

[00:10:35]for the the by-election there. He's the mayor of Manchester, but he's going for this role. And that's supposed to be his new leadership path. Now, as part of this leadership path that he has, he's um he's had to reassure the bond markets cuz those are the important people. He's had to reassure the bond markets that he's going to stick to the fiscal borrowing rules. He's not going to borrow any more money or he's not going to um you know, cut any taxes or you know, make any big decisions about spending, which is all well and good. And I think ultimately, it's it's really naive to think that the bond markets don't matter at all, but I also think that sometimes it feels like they're acting as like an unofficial second chamber in government and what really should be matter is that we have a country that works for the people that live there, not necessarily just for the markets, right? But, yeah.

[00:11:27]>> The Blairites, which I would put Starmer in that. I mean, Blair came out yesterday for you know, he's no longer pretending to be liberal. I mean, people are even Jacob Rees-Mogg on GB News last night saying like, "Woah, Blair's even further to the right than me."

[00:11:43]>> [laughter] >> He didn't really. Did he actually do that?

[00:11:48]>> He did. Yeah, watch the clip.

[00:11:50]>> Well, Sir Tony Blair has revealed his true colors perhaps. He seems to have issued a document indicating that he's to the right of me if anything rather than to the left.

[00:12:01]>> Um and the same on Times Radio, you know, this is the if he was Prime Minister, he would be the most right-wing Prime Minister since before the war. So, yeah, it it's it's shocking, but what is incredible is the spell that Blair has got over people.

[00:12:18]He's he's got this a silver tongue and people sort of go "Oh, I'm not listening to him, but he sounds sensible, so I'll I'll agree with everything that he say."

[00:12:26]You kind of like he's just agreed with the Conservatives and the Reform Party that we should leave the ECHR to sort out the small boats crisis which Brexit caused and we shouldn't rejoin the EU. I mean, like how is that sensible? People that have spent the last decade resisting Brexit now think that Blair is right including Alistair Alistair um >> Campbell.

[00:12:55]>> Campbell.

[00:12:55]>> Campbell.

[00:12:57]>> Uh uh oh, yes, of course Starmer should stay because Blair's come out and and and waved his magic wand and everybody's starstruck. It's just unbelievable.

[00:13:09]>> Campbell backed Blair on this.

[00:13:13]>> He's come out and said that that they've done a group and that Starmer should stay and and Blair's intervention without a doubt is about sort of saying, "Stop it, you naughty children.

[00:13:23]We're quite happy with Starmer and McSwindell is back in advising uh Starmer. The GB News let that slip yesterday. So, the the project of asset stripping is continuing. And so, the asset stripping has been aided by the VAT on school fees, the phone tax, the awful decisions which are designed to look left-wing, when actually they are a right-wing attack to hobble the economy and business, so that the big guys can come in and clean up like T-Rexes.

[00:14:00]>> It is interesting to see I mean, I remember thinking, you know, Blair was dealing with the sort of international foreign outlook, and it was Brown that was doing all the socialism behind the scenes when it was Blair and Brown.

[00:14:10]This is why we got hospitals and infrastructure projects being done. I don't believe like that's always been the sort of What's that?

[00:14:18]>> With PFIs.

[00:14:20]>> PFIs not great, um but I understood why they did it.

[00:14:24]Um I wouldn't have had it as a never-ending thing, though. Uh that was insane.

[00:14:29]>> They were truly extraction. They they're putting all everything into private hands. Um and you're paying ludicrous interest rates on them.

[00:14:38]>> Agreed.

[00:14:39]>> it's they didn't need to do PFIs. They they just actually needed to to release the uh spending rules a little bit and invest in in infrastructure. But, in my area, they closed loads of local hospitals, including one which was a military hospital, which they just put a a million and a half pound scanner in there 18 months beforehand, and it was all shut down because they got behind the super hospital thing. Which now means that the the hospital is clogged all of the time because it's serving so such a huge area and so many patients.

[00:15:16]>> you mentioned a couple of weeks ago uh there actually was two things. Mentioned a couple of weeks ago uh you asked me a question about how many cottage hospitals had closed during that same time. I did the research, it was 25%.

[00:15:27]They closed one in four basically.

[00:15:29]>> So they didn't completely close them.

[00:15:30]>> I know.

[00:15:30]>> But it feels like there was more. But the other thing I'll bring in just before that, Liz, cuz this is an interesting plug. Um we had Neil Kinnock on I didn't last week. I didn't get the impression from him that that those policies that Tony's now bumping out at the moment were policies that he would have gone with.

[00:15:49]>> Uh they told us in in the 19 60s, early 1960s, that we could no longer afford the railways.

[00:15:57]>> Mhm.

[00:15:58]>> And the reason for that was because um McAlpine wanted to build motorways and they wanted everyone to buy cars.

[00:16:05]And so they absolutely screwed our railway system, which imagine if we had it now.

[00:16:10]They also brought in they got rid of RPM, resale price maintenance, in 1964 under Alec Douglas-Home, which meant that and it was it was Michael Cohen, who invented Tesco, who benefited from that.

[00:16:26]And they're still doing the same thing now.

[00:16:30]They've done it with Australia austerity. Oh, we can't afford the libraries any longer, children.

[00:16:35]And then of course it causes more contraction. I'm not an accountant, Z is, but ultimately the truth of the matter is to get growth, you've got to invest in your economy, not take from it. And what they're doing is taking from public assets and allowing global corporations to control more of it and more of it. So there's less for us to have control of. So it is the agenda of the sovereign individual that you are encouraged then to to insulate yourself by buying shares in these different things. And they think it's going to work better that everything is controlled in that way rather than having a government because they're scared of a far left communist coming in and interfering with their assets.

[00:17:25]>> I think I'd go even a step further. I think they're afraid of any form of socialism, any form of it by the NHS or the police or the military.

[00:17:33]>> want to get rid of the NHS as well.

[00:17:35]Blair said yesterday that it's time to, you know, accept changes to the NHS.

[00:17:40]People already doing so cuz they're paying for the fat cats.

[00:17:44]>> The [ __ ] So, he is more to the right of Mogg. Jesus Christ.

[00:17:49]Do you Do you feel I mean it's it seems like you're insinuating this, but I'll ask it directly. Do you think the markets run Britain?

[00:17:56]>> Do I?

[00:17:57]>> Yeah.

[00:17:58]>> Of course they do. Yes.

[00:18:02]>> We're in a bit >> is why there is a massive offensive to stop Andy Burnham because he is actually showing that he wants to pivot away from this. And we had a similar offensive really under Thatcher when she was toppled.

[00:18:19]Um and Heseltine was behind it. He The pro-European wing of the Conservative, the One Nation Tories, um were not in favor with the establishment of Murdoch, who doesn't even He's not even British.

[00:18:35]>> He's Australian.

[00:18:36]>> But, you know, who who want this vision. It's ideology uh of which is We've got a very small country and we've got a very powerful prime ministership, which means that donors can come in and say, "Hi, mate. Let's go for a nice meal. I'll give you a whole load of money to make sure you get elected next time as long as you do this for me."

[00:18:59]Which is what happened with McAlpine.

[00:19:01]It's what happened with Michael Cohen.

[00:19:02]And so, the same thing is going on. And most of them think the Sun wins elections. So, Murdoch is the most revered, the most powerful person. He said it himself. I they don't pay any notice of me in Europe, but when I go into Westminster, they all stand up and off their caps.

[00:19:20]>> But then doesn't that push back on the markets' idea in that it's more down to Murdoch and the press that have the power? I mean, this is these are like typical A-level questions. Who really has power in Britain? Is it the royal family? Is it the Commons? Is it the Prime Minister? Is it the markets?

[00:19:37]>> that, though. I wouldn't I wouldn't say you can't discount the the role that the plays because I think ultimately, even if the bond markets and the markets are running the country, which let's face it, we know what's happening with regards to political donations, and even if it isn't kind of direct political donations because, you know, here we call it what is it? Corporate lobbying or whatever it is, and in other countries they'll call it corruption, but what >> [laughter] >> Do you know what I mean? But like but actually, what we're seeing is when you're looking at the media because I looked at something I I think I watched um a Murdoch documentary recently as well about their like crazy family, but um realistically, he came out and said, "Oh, it was the Sun what won it." But did he win it or was he just good at backing the person that was going to win anyway? And what you do is you then help to bring along the public along this kind of line. So, those people that aren't necessarily going to critically analyze somebody's manifesto or actually their track record, what's easy to do is if you have the media and you capture the media, what you can do is sell the people the you know, the chains to chain themselves with, and that's essentially what happens. I don't I don't I think they go I think that they aren't mutually exclusive. I think they go hand in hand. You have to You have the actual power and the control, and then you have the narrative. And how do we sell this narrative? How do we do this? Well, what we do is we have a media that doesn't focus on political accountability. It doesn't You know, I've I've got something coming out recently about I filmed something recently that's it's to come out in the next couple of days about um the Labour think tank that was going to they paid £30,000 to a US institution to go investigate some journalists because they were looking at political donations. Now, again, what does that say about our the freedom the so-called freedom of our press because what we need is to have that freedom. We need to have that accountability and if you have somewhere like a Murdoch empire that is so, you know, right-leaning or whatever, I don't necessarily think that it I don't necessarily think that it discounts the impact that the markets have. What I think it it means it it ties that story together. It brings it all together so we've got a nice package. Actually, we did what the people wanted because look, this is what they're all believing and we can steam ahead with, you know, this kind of awful form, not that there's a good form, but this form of capitalism where they they're going to get [ __ ] on, but they actually won't mind because they've consented to it.

[00:21:59]>> It's interesting cuz the reason for shipping the guy in Makerfield who stood down, so Andy Burnham could run, is connected to that think tank you just referenced.

[00:22:07]>> Mhm.

[00:22:08]>> So, that's apparently the reason why he stepped down. Apparently or definitely.

[00:22:13]>> Yeah, yeah, I think Josh Josh Simmon Simon or something his name was, yeah.

[00:22:18]>> Um, but I what I what else I find interesting is that obviously this explosion of social media which, you know, we're using right now.

[00:22:25]We're not beholden to Rupert Murdoch. In fact, I think the I can't remember the um researchers that looked into it, but I remember there was a whole piece about how social media is more center-left even though we hear a lot of crap when we're online from right-wingers and trolls and everything else. The vast majority majority of social media seems to be center-left to left. And it's the media and it seems to be the political groups are to the right. I mean >> Yeah.

[00:22:57]>> Starmer is arguably what? Center center-right? I I mean >> say yeah, definitely.

[00:23:02]>> Yeah. And then down appears Tony Blair was. Then you got what all the other conservative Prime Ministers who were center right, far right, or populist.

[00:23:10]>> Mhm.

[00:23:11]>> And you're just going how like it's it's fascinating hearing the media say these scare stories about socialism like Zach Polanski and Marxism and and communism which haven't really felt has come out of him. Um and scaremongering that whilst at the same time they've pushed all these other ideas that seem to have failed.

[00:23:30]Like apparently. I mean the only exception I probably say was some of the infrastructure projects and long-term project thinking and investment in education that came under Brown and Tony Blair.

[00:23:40]>> Yeah.

[00:23:41]>> You know, we really felt that within the teaching cohort that there was a massive improvement. So I find it interesting cuz I mean there's other thing you brought up committees. There's an argument that committees actually run the UK. Everything's got to be put through committee although Liz will tell you about the Henry VIII rules shortly and how they're being used and bypassing all of our committees >> Mhm.

[00:24:01]>> in Parliament. So there's there's a number of avenues to spread out the power but I don't think it's spread out in the way we would hope. Would that be fair or >> No, I I don't also I don't think that because while we have a semblance semblance of democracy, I think people love these catchphrases, you know, the people have power and power to the people. But I don't think people know on an individual level how powerful they can be. And some of the best form of activism that I think you can do is actually get really involved in your local community and bring up your local things because on local level you actually can change things, right? So thinking about going into becoming counselors and making those changes and seeing those changes. And I know that's something I don't So I know Reformer going up and they're like becoming these counselors and then realizing that there's actual work to do and they're like oh work. We just thought we're going to be in you know, Parliament. Like we don't really don't read anything. We didn't know that we were thought we were going to be over here. But but saying that I think there is real things that you can do and contribute to your local from from a local level. And I think the closer people are to their government, so to your local government, if you like, the more change you can have and the bigger that impact can be.

[00:25:10]And I think when they're doing these scare stories, it's funny that the scare stories are coming out about Jumaane Williams now at the time when New York has a socialist mayor that's gone in and filled in these potholes and >> Mayor Eric Adams says the city has repaired 100,000 potholes across the boroughs. He was joined by the city's Department of Transportation on Staten Island and grabbed a shovel to help make the 100th repair, 100,000th repair.

[00:25:37]>> gone after the, you know, and and posed this wealth tax and he's done all of these things that he said he's going to do. And okay, he hasn't managed to do free bus travel or whatever the hell it is yet, but he's got this, you know, child care. He's rolling out these programs and he's doing it. Now, I know that there's and I'm not getting into America anytime soon, so I'll say this freely. I know that there's a lot of probable corruption and that so there was extra money that probably came from his predecessors in terms of how that money's been used and he's actually there's a chance that he's just using the money that was always available, but it was getting siphoned off somewhere else.

[00:26:09]But it does it does still give people the hope that actually we can make some changes because a lot of the time people feel bombarded with the things that coming out, the messages, the you know, there's so many things that are going on across the world and then there's things I, you know, I cost me 10 pounds to leave my home in London. Like I don't when I go outside, 10 pounds just leaves my bank. I don't even know where it's gone, right? That's just to breathe on the outside of my house. Like and so everything is expensive.

[00:26:37]Everything is expensive. There's always a problem then this happens and if you have a car then it's got a ticket and the and so I think that sometimes you actually have to have a focus. We have to kind of make it palatable for people and have a focus so that they can kind of say, "I've done like I've I've gone from here to here and I felt like there's been a change." And I also think to bring it back to Brexit and I know that people like to go and go, "Oh, people that voted Brexit are just stupid and da da da and I'm not going to disagree cuz I think lots of people are stupid even people that didn't vote but like I just I think that lot Let's Let's face it. Like everyone isn't all the same. Some people were in the bottom set for a reason at school. But and I know that's like >> [laughter] >> Like it just is what it is, right? But what I will say is this, I think that sometimes there is an African proverb that says, "If you do not um invite the youth into the village, they will burn it down to feel its warmth." And I think there's something to be said about generations of people that are left behind and feel left behind and they go year in year out and they don't see things changing in their neighbor. I'm not talking about London here cuz I know that London does tend to get a lot of funding but in other parts of the UK where there've been communities that for example in Grimsby where the fisheries and stuff like that were decimated under Thatcher and then they you've just got generations of people that really don't feel like that they've got hope. They've gone, "Cool. Well, this this isn't working for me. Maybe it's working for you but I need to be out of this because And so I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying it's even like the logical conclusion and it will end up benefiting them but sometimes people just don't give a [ __ ] Like they will just do what they can to have some change because where they are now, it doesn't feel good. And I think we do need to acknowledge that and face into that and how do we do something? And I think that's also some of the appeal of Reform. I think it's very easy and I don't think it's a lie to say, "You know what? They're going on this racist, xenophobic, far-right platform or whatever." But I also think there are some people that go, "Nothing changes for me." So they're different and that's just what it is. And I I don't think it's a good reason to vote Reform. I don't think there's any good reason to vote Reform but I I see I can see how people can get in that mindset.

[00:28:40]>> Then I go that's same sort of ideology that was the building blocks or part of the building blocks of Brexit. Was like nothing's improving. Why is nothing improving? Keep getting told that the European Union is the cause of all of this. All right, let's get rid of them."

[00:28:54]And then you go and and it's like, "How many times do you have to This is the interesting word the thing about stupidity." I always think stupidity is a deliberate ignorance. And I think that's that's the difference between it.

[00:29:04]So There's a >> know though that I would say that. I I And don't get me wrong, I'm the first person to call someone stupid.

[00:29:11]Don't worry.

[00:29:13]I call people at work stupid all the time. It's probably why I don't have a job. But what I would say is >> Great self-awareness there.

[00:29:20]>> Yeah.

[00:29:20]>> [laughter] >> But what I would say is I don't know that the ignorance is always deliberate.

[00:29:25]And I and and and so and don't be get me wrong, maybe a lot of the time it is, but I've had conversations with people that sometimes I I I'll say this. I used to have conversations with people and I was like, "Are you doing this on purpose?

[00:29:39]Like are you Are you really just that stupid?" And sometimes they are. Like they just they they don't have logic.

[00:29:45]They they you have to be taught and I'm not a teacher, but they say that in primary school you teach children and in secondary school you teach subjects. And if you haven't been taught how to learn and how to think critically about it, you can't apply it to things, right? And so you come and you face these real world certain scenarios and you're like, "Oh yeah, that makes sense." And if no one around you is going, "What the [ __ ] are you talking about? That doesn't make any sense. Like this is the the the the the the the then that just embeds itself and and you make a way to make it make sense."

[00:30:12]>> I don't I don't believe it's about stupidity. It's about psychology. And I And I used to work in advertising. I used to work in Saatchi & Saatchi, the biggest advertising in agency in the world when I worked for it.

[00:30:25]Um and it it it is to do with some people are more open to being manipulated by messaging, subliminal messaging.

[00:30:36]Um and when I worked at Saatchi & Saatchi, the Conservative Party were the clients there. They weren't my clients, but they were in the agency.

[00:30:44]Um, and so I think they know what they're doing, and they appeal to people through emotion and feelings rather than hard cold facts. Um, and so it does take time to go back in history and think, "Well, what happened then? How did How do we end up with no railways? How did we end up with the you know that that the supermarket culture?" Like it it's getting more and more Americanized every day. You You've got to You've got to join the dots, you know? You go to Spain, they've still got a nationalized hotel chain. They've got nationalized trains, um, and and a public health system as well.

[00:31:26]And many of the other European countries, and we are literally about to say goodbye to everything. Everything is going to be privatized like America.

[00:31:35]Uh, it's that close.

[00:31:37]Um, and the reason for it is is I I mean, I think if you look and you go back, um, to the after the last war, the lessons are in history, and the Mayfair set, Aspinall, and all of the the lot that didn't want to lose the global power, and what they set up, and how they managed to interfere in governments to get money and influence for themselves is is what We're kind of like We're like pirates in Britain. That's what we are.

[00:32:10]We're a privacy island that go around these uh this jet set go around interfering, and they go, "Oh, we've got this large family that we've got to somehow con that we're doing something."

[00:32:23]And then they tell every And the one thing they absolutely hated after the war was the welfare state. And they have worked since it was in it since it was built, they have done everything they can to pull it down. Um and it's horrible to say this, but they are winning. Um but it isn't because people are stupid. It is because they haven't been able to look at the details and understand how it joins together.

[00:32:53]Because there is a There is a There is a sort of difference here in that they go, "Someone's rich.

[00:32:59]They live in a big house. They speak posh. And so I'm going to doff my cap because they're better than me." And that is in-built in British culture.

[00:33:08]>> Mhm. There's a There's something to be said about that. The Napoleonic are quite interesting on that in the fact that it would be better to have someone who is born in the right family as your leader than having someone from the ranks.

[00:33:21]Because it was a luck symbol almost to have someone like that. And that's [ __ ] crazy to hear that they that people in that era had that thinking.

[00:33:30]And yet still the same here. But then I'd also push back and go, "Farage said that Brexit makes everything great instantly. Doesn't matter who's in charge, it's all better." And then you've got 20 to 30% of the population going, after it's proven it's complete failure, "Yeah, I want some more of that." And you go, "What the [ __ ] is that?" It's like how much evidence There's tribalism. There's also stupidity. And you go, "How much evidence do I need to provide to you that it's I I like You don't have this like I find it really fascinating with I'll say this I'll say this I'll say this. You do not have this. You do not have this within football.

[00:34:09]If someone If you have a manager who is absolute [ __ ] and knocked you into the relegation zone, you don't keep the manager. The supporters go, "You're [ __ ] [ __ ] off." And that's tribal. But that But with this, they're going, "No, I want more of that. I want the same leader that sold me a pack of [ __ ] to come back and sell me more shit."

[00:34:29]>> He's got away with telling them that he's not the leader and that that we hasn't been managed properly, so they believe him with that. And and he's made he's been made out to look the most competent because Starmer has been so incompetent.

[00:34:45]Um and and so and Kemi Badenoch is not a viable option. The Conservatives are not trusted. So everyone's sort of like, not that one, not that one. Go okay, I'll I'll give him a go cuz I've tried all of the others. That's what's going on. And also, he's being pushed down our throats. You know, it's literally everywhere. He's being normalized. You know, he hasn't been when I grew up, the BNP was seen as horrific. You know, and people would go, "Oh my god, they're supposedly the BNP. Oh my god." You know, there was outrage about it. I mean, what we got yesterday from Blair and what we've had continually from the Conservatives and from Reform is even further to the right than than the BNP.

[00:35:34]Okay. That's how scary it >> In parts, yeah. In parts, not all, but in parts, yeah.

[00:35:38]>> But but on Blair not being, you know, go, "Oh, really, Blair?" I Blair's father was a Conservative. Um you know, he talked about that. I I never saw Blair as as being left-wing. I always saw him as right-wing. Just because they did some left-wing cultural things like the the stupid hunting ban, which bound up Parliament for 7 years. Um and and delivered this awful mess, you know, which was pointless. Most people were rabidly about going on about hunting.

[00:36:10]What, you know, what what about the concern about the economy and how what it means for you and what what is going on. What about our hospitals and what what do these PFIs mean? What does foundation status mean and academy status?

[00:36:27]You know, it was just a massive distraction.

[00:36:30]And and a cultural divide. It divided the country again between the split of I'm on the side of the fluffy fox and I'm against the bad the bad old-fashioned land owner who wants to go out and and and do do cruel things. That that's that's that's what that's when really the populism began in earnest in my view. And it was a pointless argument.

[00:36:53]>> Do you feel the monarchy and the class system also bring this in then and continue this? Because it sets up this whole thing of which I keep dubbing as capitalist selection. They're better than us cuz they make money.

[00:37:06]>> I I think it's >> and arguably they're worse than us because they don't make money.

[00:37:11]>> Oh, yeah, but that's something that you see everywhere online, right? So, like you have it entrenched within you um British society and I think this whole kind of class thing you whilst class is one something that runs through the whole of British society, I think at all stages interacts with other things that are going on as well. So, it's always there as an undercurrent.

[00:37:32]So, you saw it with Meghan Markle, for example, when she was um a part of the royal family and that kind of whole debacle. You see it in the way that people are talking about Prince Andrew, but not really because, you know, like we'll just kind of push that to the side and and you know, like all of all the ways that they are not held to account for their behavior and their behaviors in the way that an ordinary person and there is an expectation that an ordinary person was. And if you don't inherently feel reverence to these people, you're deemed as unpatriotic or you're deemed as whatever X, Y, and Z. And I think that happens a lot. I think that happens a lot in the UK and I think that's what happens even like even with regards to um these people paint painting roundabouts.

[00:38:17]>> Yeah.

[00:38:18]There was one this week that was built by a reformed council that has an England flag in the center.

[00:38:23]>> Okay, great. Now what? How is that How is that made the country improve? Like what Are you painting this roundabout because you've gone and [ __ ] fed some kids in the school or you've done like what? Who cares? Paint your [ __ ] roundabouts. I don't really care, but like what does that mean? Oh, we're taking our country back from whom? Cuz you've already left the EU. Who are you taking it back from?

[00:38:43]And who had it? And the problem is actually as Liz mentioned that for for decades now we have been selling this country to America. So you have a high street that looks like every single high street in this country. They all look the same. They've all got the Starbucks's and the McDonald's's and yeah. They're all of this nonsense that they have. You want to take your country back from these big corporations because these are those were the ones that were killing the little mom-and-pop shops that were there and that were thriving when I was young and you could go to the greengrocer's and you go to And you know what's the the irony of this, right?

[00:39:16]That is where I live.

[00:39:19]You know who goes to the butcher's? The local people. The local people that you say don't aren't patriotic. They go to the butcher's. They go to these greengrocer's and whatever. They don't because actually a lot of the time they can get it cheaper from them. They still go to East Street Market to get their fruits and veg because actually for them it's cheaper than going to these these Sainsbury's and whatever. So they're keeping those markets open. They're keeping these little butcher's open. And so don't complain about somebody that came over in a boat is taking your country away when you sold it ages ago.

[00:39:47]You sold it ages ago to Starbucks and to whatever. Why do I need to have a Starbucks in every place that I go to? I don't need that. I don't need that. I don't need a McDonald's everywhere I go or all of these other chains that they have. And they all look the same.

[00:39:58]>> have a Wimpy, right?

[00:40:01]You'd rather have a Wimpy, right?

[00:40:02]>> Absolutely. I want my I want my chips [laughter] on a real plate, thank you very much. I don't >> I [music] know what you should do.

[00:40:15]Come on over >> [singing] >> to my place.

[00:40:19]Yeah.

[00:40:23]>> Um, is it did you did either of you see Mick Lynch Mick Lynch versus Camilla?

[00:40:29]>> Oh, yeah. Who is it that you're talking to someone in the Telegraph?

[00:40:32]>> Well, yeah. She was Camilla I can't remember her surname. It was really interesting cuz >> My prediction is that you will support reform at the next election. Telegraph seems to be preparing itself to become a fully signed up affiliate of reform.

[00:40:45]>> No.

[00:40:46]>> And all of the racism and disunity that's going to cause but what I see what I see coming out of the Telegraph every day is making space for racism.

[00:40:55]>> Reaching for the racism lever when somebody suggests that perhaps mass migration did contribute to a lowering of of unskilled workers wages and indeed put more people on housing lists that might have challenged those who wanted to get >> The reason there are The reason there are there isn't any council housing There isn't any council housing.

[00:41:16]>> Mick, let me finish.

[00:41:17]>> Because Margaret Thatcher sold it all.

[00:41:19]>> No, we're not affiliated with reform.

[00:41:21]Many many many many readers do not support Nigel >> Well, my prediction is that you will support reform at the next election.

[00:41:28]>> Yeah, he's good.

[00:41:29]>> And you know what? I have a theory and it may be wrong but it's a theory in my head. I think that a lot of the the tide that you're seeing in terms of like working class people and whatever the decimation of the trade unions has done and like this is a time where if they were strong you would really need them because a lot of the information that's coming out and the misinformation trade union like the leaders are elected to tell their members what this means for them. Like explain it. Essentially like certain things that I'm doing right trying to explain what these policies mean how that's going to affect them or whatever. If you are not part of a trade union and your time poor and you don't have time to consume these things or critically think about it and you've seen this little video of like some reform peon that's kind of said oh you're like okay cool makes sense. Let me just follow that. Whereas actually, if you can get guidance and help from your union to understand these things and roll these things out, you have this these numbers now that are going, we're not voting for this as a union because this is what it means for our community.

[00:42:26]This is what it means for our people.

[00:42:27]But we don't have that. Like most people most working class people are not in trade unions, right? They're not because there are so few strong unions that are left or that actually do their job. And I think that's actually been to the detriment of the so-called, you know, left left or center left because there hasn't been this spokesperson or this mouthpiece to be able to translate to their union members, not because they're stupid, but because maybe and and I know that I said that every people are stupid and some people are, but like what I mean is because people don't always have the time. Like you you know, you're time poor, you've maybe got kids, you've got this, you've got that to do and whatever. If you had these trade unions that came and could said, look, we're going to have a meeting and this is what I want you to understand what this means. This is the implications of this.

[00:43:11]This is why we think we should vote this. That that gives people guidance.

[00:43:14]It makes sense to them. It it relates it to their real life. Otherwise, they're hearing it from Farage on TV who has no idea what they're like they're talking about, but you know, this is the the message that they're going to consume.

[00:43:25]>> It's it's interesting cuz we could bring bring this into AI a little bit. Um I think AI has the potential to change that and actually level the playing field a lot in a lot of different ways.

[00:43:35]And I'll say quick story. I'm aware of a can't say too much, but a friend of mine took on a top 50 law firm in a uh employment case. Just used AI and decimated them. Got a um 50K payout as a result. Because he just used the AI. And that's against top 50 law firm.

[00:43:58]So you're going imagine if the trade union started doing that. Cuz the one of the problems as you said is they don't have money.

[00:44:03]Well, they don't need it necessarily now because of AI.

[00:44:06]But then this is something else that we wanted to touch on a little bit Uh um within regards to I agree with you with trade unions. The way I've always argued it is, if I go in and I'm having a meeting with my boss, they've got all the power essentially. They've got the contract, they can rewrite the contract, they can fire you when they want, and on top of well within, you know, the first 2 years of work, and then it's a bit difficult after that. But also, they've got your money.

[00:44:31]Like, you've got no leverage here, and of course, you know, they can always go, "We'll get rid of you, pay you off, and we'll get someone else in." Which, you know, So, that's why I've always advocated going with the union direction, cuz at least you've got someone who has your back. Cuz they've got their entire HR team, they've got themselves, they've got all your records, they've got all your work notes, they've got all your complaints if you've got any. So, they can get rid of you quite easily just using a lot of easy loopholes. You can't It's It's a power imbalance there.

[00:44:58]>> Mhm.

[00:44:59]>> Um one thing I did want to touch on just cuz I'm aware of the time is your perspective on sort of futurist stuff.

[00:45:05]UBI, AI. Have you got any thoughts about the issues with AI?

[00:45:11]And there's also this issue that's been coming up over and over again. Both young people leaving in droves.

[00:45:16]>> Mhm.

[00:45:16]>> Like, even the Brexiteers are panicking.

[00:45:18]Like, Fraser Nelson, the Brex- the he voted Brexit, he says he now regrets it.

[00:45:22]He's a journalist, I can't remember which paper, but he's right-wing.

[00:45:26]Panicking over the number of people leaving the UK. But I'm also going the unemployment rate's through the roof.

[00:45:32]And we've got the entire world going, "We need people with the exception of a few countries."

[00:45:38]>> Yeah.

[00:45:38]>> Like, "Come and move here." Like, have you got any thoughts about the movement with AI and how governments are dealing with that, and whether or not the UK has got the ability to deal with that. UBI maybe?

[00:45:51]>> I have a lot of thoughts. Um which is why I said I've got some time.

[00:45:54]>> [laughter] >> I have a lot of thoughts for a number of reasons. I keep saying this cuz I'm very proud of my result. I I did um during my my downtime, I did a course at LSE, actually. I mean, it was online. I didn't go into a building. But, um, called AI Law, Policy, and Governance, which effectively looked at, um, well, law, policy, and governance for AI, but in the EU, the UK, China, and US, and like looked at their different approaches, and like talked about policy and how what different governments are doing. And I'll I'll kind of keep it to the UK. I'll just broadly I'll say this, look, the US is the Wild West. They're just doing anything. It's It's It's hellscape over there, and it really really is in terms of I I actually think they're psychotic.

[00:46:38]And I know that sounds really dramatic, but why I say that is because I think there's this psychotic, um, focus on money, profit, capital by any means.

[00:46:49]>> Can I just clarify that the crazy people are the ones that are setting up like, you know, chat GPT and other AI systems?

[00:46:55]Is that who you're referring to when you say that?

[00:46:56]>> AI models. Yeah, not obviously not my aunt that lives in New York, but like I just just [laughter] Look at the people that are running things over there in the tech, you know, the tech bros and stuff. And I I do think that, um, they need to be stopped. And it's really interesting because I say I was invited to the screening the other day, uh, from Chasing Utopia, um, from Mo Gawdat, I think his name is, who used to be the chief business officer at Google. And he talks about AI and the fact that it can now like lie and do all of these other things, and like these crazy things, and basically saying that if we his his view is that the problem that we have with AI, apart from if we leave the environmental thing on the side for the second, is that we are worried, and we should be, that, um, it will amplify the worst characteristics of humanity, right? So, there's this kind of if the robots do take over, we know that there are people that are really bad, and we don't want it to be the We don't want the robots to be bad, and then like, obviously, kill us. And he then kind of proposes that you we should we need to raise AI like we would raise children, and we're not currently doing that. Why I think it's interesting is because he also did touch on this UBI thing and said and and you know, I don't know if I fully agree with he's like, "Oh, well, like you know, in a couple of years no one will need to go to school and da da da da da because you know, we'll just have AI. We don't need any of those things." And he's talking about the pace of There's nobody that no child being born today will ever be smarter than AI and stuff. And that I can probably agree with, but I also I think there's something in learning, right? Like I don't maybe school will will will change and it will evolve, but I think there's something valuable that people and children and if we're going to keep producing that they need to learn. What I'll say is that the problem that we have in this country specifically is one we've left the EU.

[00:48:47]And so the EU has already started with their regulatory framework in terms of AI. There's the AI Act, which we don't have here, but they have over there.

[00:48:53]What I had and I've worked in finance, so what for example the FCA have said is that oh, for your kind of AI, you know, ethics framework, just use your existing frameworks and apply it to AI. The problem is that people don't really understand AI, right? They don't understand its usage, they don't understand like the biases and how how that really works in real time because we're at a new frontier.

[00:49:13]So, just to say, "Oh, just use just use what you got. Like don't worry about it.

[00:49:16]Use your frameworks, your risk frameworks that you have."

[00:49:19]>> add to that quickly just cuz something popped up in my not to distract too much, but Reformer definitely using AI in their videos.

[00:49:28]To the point where you're like if you did like there were a number of pictures that were put up that I put to an AI and said, "Is that real? That doesn't look quite right."

[00:49:38]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:49:38]>> Yeah, I said oh, the three of the four pictures they were like, "That either looks like it's been altered completely and fake or it's been enhanced to make it look nicer." And then there was definitely a video and I'll call it out, which is Robert Jenrick's, that had three clips of like working class people and someone in the NHS.

[00:49:55]>> Gary.

[00:49:56]>> Hey, Beth.

[00:49:56]>> Chris, we're swamped tonight.

[00:49:58]>> Ward's heaving tonight.

[00:49:59]>> Kev's pulled a [music] sickie. Fancy another shift?

[00:50:01]>> Any chance you could stay late?

[00:50:02]>> Can you do the late shift tonight?

[00:50:03]>> I'll help you out, boss.

[00:50:05]>> You know I will.

[00:50:06]>> Yeah, I'll do it. But it won't be much for me after Reeves has taken her share.

[00:50:10]>> But come on, half of the extra pay [music] will just go in tax.

[00:50:13]>> Even though I won't see much for it.

[00:50:14]>> And you're like, that is so dodgy. So when you brought up what you just said there about the ethics code, right? The Electoral Commission could do the same and say it has to be this. But there's nothing in there that says you have to make sure everyone's aware that the images you just used are AI. So if they're good enough and some of them are, >> Yeah.

[00:50:32]>> you're you know, you're looking at that and go, wow, he's really popular. Look at all the amazing actors and actresses that they managed to pick up and put onto the screen. Look at the size of the crowd that's around him. And you'll just go, and this is so dodgy. So when you said what you said, it's not good enough. It needs separate >> No, it No, it isn't. And it needs to be explicit across things. So if for example, if I work in finance, I you know, people would you're you've got algorithmic pricing and AI and like how where the data sets coming from. But you also have it across other things.

[00:51:00]Because what we all have is this kind of destabilization of the well, society.

[00:51:05]And we've already broken the social contract, right? So if we're constantly consuming things and we're not really sure if they're real, then people are like, well, I just don't trust anything, right? And trust is really at an all-time low, I would say. So we're in the situation where you have AI singers.

[00:51:21]And people want to know whether it's AI.

[00:51:22]I don't want to follow this woman and you know, get so into her music and then go, I can never see her in concert because she actually doesn't exist or whatever. And then you've got all of these other things. And so I think there is an onus and in the EU they have a much more robust and strict regulatory framework. But then you have these people complaining about that because they're like, well, we can't compete with the US. And so to be honest with you, no, we can't. But what you also have is China that are doing things to nullify the AI the US.

[00:51:51]So, a lot of this thing that we have where we're like, "Oh my god, let's be scared cuz China's got this and China's got that and China China does things in response to the US because they they don't actually have an expansionist policy in the way that the US does and the way that they go about it. What they're doing is to make sure that the US doesn't get so big that they dominate the world. So, when, you know, they launched ChatGPT over there, they came out with Deep Seek. Then, uh the US said, "Look, we're not going to send you these chips." So, does China develop their own? And they're doing all of these They're not necessarily doing these things and rolling them out in the way that the US is in a in a in a quest for dominance. They're doing it so that they have some sort of balance that we have. So, trying to keep up with the US, I don't know if that's a sensible thing to do. I don't think it is. But, I also think we they've created this framework in which we're supposed to live and the the whole everybody is like the pursuit of capital. That's That's how we value people, right? Oh, you haven't got any money, you're Even GDP, right? GDP doesn't really take into account all of the work that's come that that is done every day that doesn't actually produce money, right? So, all the carers and all of these people, apparently that doesn't have any value. That's how we measure value and value is about money and we don't measure these things that really do contribute to society. And so, you have this situation where all your your value is measured on the amount of income that you have or, you know, in monetary terms for want of a better word. And so, we then have this situation where you're in workplaces and they're forcing people to use AI. You must use AI to be more efficient. And the first Eventually, people are sitting there going, "Okay, cool, but this AI is Assuming that I'm training AI, AI is going to replace me. So, then I don't have a job." And then I don't have a job and who are we producing products for?

[00:53:35]Because if I don't have a job, I don't have any money. And that's when you come to this question of UBI, universal basic income. Because if you're having AI replace all of this work and everything so efficient, where are what the workers going to do? What are we What are we doing? Like, how do we contribute to this society? And it's this really dystopian situation where the first capitalism on its own was bad enough where, you know, we feel that Like, it's this thing where it's like, well, I criticize capitalism, and people are like, "Well, why don't you quit your job?" And I was like, "Because I don't want to die of starvation." Okay?

[00:54:10]Because I don't Because I'm not a social project, okay? I still need to live.

[00:54:14]Well, you can live off the grid. Okay, well, I'm going to leave my whole family and go and live in the forest to make a point about I don't agree with the system. Like, I Listen, these two people had sex in the '80s, and now I have to pay bills. I don't think it's fair, but here I am, right? So, I'm trying to make the best of this game. I didn't design it, but I'm going to play, and I don't want to lose. I also don't need to be a billionaire. But, what where we are with this situation is that we are consenting. Every day we go to work to our own exploitation. And so, it becomes difficult because And I I don't really feel this because I I acknowledge the hypocrisy of my existence. So, people then will say, "Well, why are you working?" or "Why are you doing this?"

[00:54:53]or "Why are you doing that?" And then you feel, "Ah, maybe I can't criticize because we are all contributing to this.

[00:54:59]We are all contributing to this system that is oppressing oppressing us." But, now we've taken it to the next level.

[00:55:05]Not only we are contributing to We're contributing to these things that are going to replace us. And we're being forced to do so, because in workplaces, I'm telling you, they're they're forcing people to use AI. They're telling them to go on to training and whatever to use AI and speeding up all of these things that are wrong. And then you come on to the kind of environmental impact of these things of generative AI and whatever. And I'm like, "What is the end goal here?" Because I don't think that And I don't know if you guys have thought about this, but I What is it What does society look like when we've all adopted this? What what what are we doing?

[00:55:40]>> A lot. And I've researched it a lot. And I started researching it when I had a meeting with Henry Dimbleby, who is in charge of the food plan, which was a joke.

[00:55:50]>> Mhm.

[00:55:51]>> Um and he told me that he voted Brexit because post-war policy has led to over intensification and overpopulation.

[00:56:00]And that scared the pants off me. I've done enough history I've done history A-level and I and I know my grandfather was very good at educating his well in these about what caused the war and food. I come from a family that's always produced for generations always been in the food industry, bakers and confectioners and on that side of the family. So um I I actually was scared and started looking into it.

[00:56:29]Um and you know, I know enough about Malthus from history. And ultimately what we've got is that sound of the AI.

[00:56:38]You know it's going to take jobs.

[00:56:40]They're trying to tell you it's not, but they we know it's going to take jobs and it is already taking jobs. And at the same time they're telling us that welfare is no longer affordable and pensions are for the for the birds, you know. And in fact Boris Johnson's brother did all this future scoping for the BBC. He did these videos of him on YouTube from the late, you know, 2018, 19, 20 talking about what the future will look like and it's worth going and finding these.

[00:57:11]Um but uh and he's pitching those ideas to the hedge funders and you know, all of the all of those sort of people that are interested in tomorrow's world as such.

[00:57:23]But I I honestly and this is why my fear for food is so great because I really really do think that we are coming to a lot of problems, a lot of problems, because the structure the infrastructure is not there.

[00:57:39]Um and the acceleration of the depletion of any control of food and food production and our isolation is extremely frightening. And if you want chaos, all you do is is make sure that there's not enough food or that food is unaffordable. It happened in Germany in the 1930s.

[00:58:01]>> Yeah.

[00:58:02]>> Mass inflation, food shortages, um and a real push to the right. They keep saying that we, you know, we have to remilitarize because oh, Russia's the one that we need to be scared of, but then you've got Morris Glassman who is their sort of ideological uh go-to for the for the Starmer government, um saying that we should invade France and this whole push to leave the ECHR will lead to conflict as well.

[00:58:31]So, I think it's scary. I think they want conflict. I think they want conflict to depopulate because I think they think the future is we'll get rid of all of the useless eaters and we should just have a productive workforce with AI and then it brings you into the um Goldsmiths saying, you know, oh, well, you know, we're going to have bring back bears and wolves because if you're depopulated, if you go back to the population numbers of the Henry VIII's day, then, you know, you you will be able to bring back those sort of creatures because you're not you're not going to be so well populated.

[00:59:10]>> Well, it would also help with depopulation, bring back the wolves and the bears. It's not exactly as if they don't eat humans.

[00:59:17]I just have to read a few stories in the space.

[00:59:19]>> I I think that there is an element of them that wants that and if you if you look through the Goldsmiths uh Jimmy Goldsmith and Teddy Goldsmith are two brothers.

[00:59:29]One who had brought the Green Party in and the other who brought UKIP as it were which was the Referendum Party to begin with.

[00:59:37]There is a lot of them sort of oh, everything's been ruined by the welfare state and the baby boom and what we need is to get back to this semblance of feudalism. And then I think that that AI is the the real tool that they they want to use and and it terrifies me. You know, I think it's horrendous. It's a complete loss of control which is why they also scapegoat civil servants. It's another reason.

[01:00:01]>> Mhm.

[01:00:02]>> Um so that they can and at the moment you've got Starmer really causing problems with the courts with Palestine action in the in that they are politicizing the courts and expecting them to treat Palestine action uh um people who are who are you know, have every right to protest differently to somebody that's going and protesting with Tommy Tommy Robinson.

[01:00:24]>> Yeah.

[01:00:25]>> Which you know, I felt they've done that a lot recently and unfortunately we are at the end of the show.

[01:00:31]Liz, thank you ever so much for coming on. Please check out her YouTube channel which is in the description. Liz, my lovely co-host, I promise we will talk about farming this week. We are in talks about doing a daily show even if it's just 10 12 minutes for the Sunday roast through mid >> Be sure to tune in next week for another exciting story from the files of Police Squad.

[01:01:19]>> If you were stuck on a desert island and you needed someone to help you get off the desert island, >> Mhm.

[01:01:25]>> would you pick out of these three, and you got to pick one?

[01:01:29]>> Okay.

[01:01:29]>> Look at that [laughter] face. Like, oh my god, what you going to do?

[01:01:34]Liz Truss, >> Mhm.

[01:01:35]>> Jacob Rees-Mogg, >> Okay.

[01:01:38]>> Boris Johnson. Who do you think Who would you pick that you think would be good enough to help you get off the island?

[01:01:44]>> Um so, I'm going to start with Liz, um because she I I'm going to say no to her because I feel like she's just too wishy-washy. Um and I see that she's doing a kind of tour at the moment in the US of like on the right wing circuit or whatever, and I was just like, you're just you're just a [ __ ] I don't think [music] that she would really think straight. I think she just goes with the tide, and um she'd probably drown getting us off the island.

[01:02:09]>> [laughter] >> Um Thinking out Boris Johnson.

[01:02:13]Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think she would. I should think she'd get washed up, like drift >> She'd have to put a token out there.

[01:02:17]>> Yeah, and she would just kind of go, oh, like, this is the new wave. Um so, pun intended. And so, I think Jacob [laughter] Jacob Rees-Mogg I think between those two, as odious as I find them, I think I would go with Jacob Rees-Mogg.

[01:02:38]The reason being, so let me tell you why not Boris Johnson. I think Boris Johnson is all about self, and so probably when the chance comes, he will step on my head to get on the boat that comes, and be like, let's go because we can't get anywhere else in here. Like blah blah blah blah blah, like that kind of thing.

[01:02:52]And so, I would just die anyway.

[01:02:54]You know, I'm really thinking this through. However, Jacob Rees-Mogg, whilst I don't agree with him, I think that he's actually quite a principled person. I don't agree with those principles, but he tends to stick to it.

[01:03:04]Let me land. So, I've seen him speaking about things. Again, I don't agree, for example, cuz I think he's Catholic, right? So, he's very like And I grew up Catholic, but I'm like, run off, whatever, like not real. But, um I I grew up with I grew up fairy stories. But, um, what I will say is like he [laughter] he's like very principled. And so, like if as a principal the aim is to get us off the island, I I feel I feel he would stick to it. For example, I also saw him doing a thing about, um, what's her name? The the woman that was trafficked out and she joined ISIS or something like that, the girl.

[01:03:37]>> Shamima >> Shamima Begum. And he was like, "Yeah, no, we should bring her back here." And like, you know, he should she's British.

[01:03:43]She was radicalized here. She needs to go through our court system or whatever.

[01:03:46]And I felt that that was like because it speaks to him he he's very clear on those kind of this is what it is and this is what it isn't. And so, if he's on your side in terms of trying to get me off the island, this is what he's trying to do. He's not trying to Do you get what I mean? I I don't agree with him, but I do think that he I've seen him on stuff and I've seen that he's just like, "Well, no, this is what it is." Like I think I think [music] he's a bit of a [ __ ] but I need to get off my island. I don't really I don't I'm not trying to marry him, so that should be fine.

[01:04:13]>> Liz, you've also got to be aware that Amber Rudd saying, "Don't ever get [music] in a taxi with Boris."

[01:04:18]>> Well, there you go as well. You know what I mean?

[01:04:21]I don't want to have to cat straight people on an island.

[01:04:24]>> Yeah.

[01:04:24]>> Liz.

[01:04:25]>> Okay, go on then, give me my nightmare.

[01:04:29]>> You're going to become Prime Minister, but in order to get through you need to have a coalition in order to become Prime Minister.

[01:04:36]For Chancellor, you only have three choices in this coalition.

[01:04:41]Boris Johnson, Liz Truss, Tony Blair.

[01:04:55]>> Well, Liz Truss is definitely a no-no because she's far too flaky and she's an embarrassment. And I I just couldn't even bear to be in her company for more than 30 seconds.

[01:05:07]Um, and Boris Johnson, You know, he's he's lazy as well and that's a problem. He he's He is very clever. I do think he is very clever.

[01:05:21]Um but he's lazy and he also >> [music] >> can't keep his dick in his pants and that's a big problem. [laughter] No.

[01:05:31]I'm not saying he would want to be doing that to me and I certainly wouldn't want to be having it I wouldn't put up with it either but he just I think that's another reason why he can't focus on anything. So we would probably have to be Tony Blair.

[01:05:42]But there would be a lot of arguments.

[01:05:45]>> The man >> There would be a lot of >> The man now for the opportunity to change the prism >> [laughter] >> Thank you very much.

[01:05:54]>> Yeah.