The Digital Tax in Grenada: Who Pays ?

追加: 2026-05-13

[00:00:00]uh digital services taxes or DSTs have been permeating the trade environment since 2018.

[00:00:08]But of course, CO 19 and the Organization for Economic Developments digitization of the economy project of course context matters the OECD falls under uh the group of 20 nations. Um digitization of the economy project commonly referred to as BEPS 2.0 0 which is essentially base erosion and profit sharing have accelerated the focus on digital services taxes. So what is the genesis of digital services taxation?

[00:00:41]Countries have relied on various principles to tax multinationals and to determine the income that will be subjected to taxation. Historically, most countries have taxed incomes reported by companies in their jurisdictions.

[00:01:00]But the rise of globalization and the digital economy created new opportunities for firms to avoid taxes and shift profit. Of course, those firms here are tech firms uh who provide services in the marketplace, whether those are e-commerce or hospitality, entertainment, and otherwise. to avoid taxes and shift profit, weakening the ties between where economic activity occurs and where income is reported. In response, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development launched in 2013 coordinated efforts to curb profit shifting and tax competition between countries by implementing a new international tax system centered around creating new rules for allocating the taxable income of multinational tech companies across Ross countries. There are two pillars to this prescription.

[00:02:05]One of is a global minimum tax of 15%.

[00:02:10]The first pillar here uh which is of course to tax the income of multinationals. Now although there hasn't been a lot of progress on pillar one in the last few years, pillar two has been implemented by most developed countries. Well, except of course the United States of America where most of these tech companies are headquarters.

[00:02:33]Headquartered that is since early 2024.

[00:02:37]Now, since 2019, as countries wait for pillar one rules to be adopted and implemented, some have introduced taxes on digital services, often citing traditional tax systems as inadequate to tax companies in the digital economy.

[00:02:56]Now, digital service taxes are relatively new. France, of course, was one of the first countries to levy a digital tax in 2019, often stemming from the difficulty of taxing large tech multinationals.

[00:03:14]Digital services taxes follow destinationbased principles by taxing income based on where services are sold.

[00:03:24]They differ from traditional corporate taxes because they are levied on the revenues of multinational tech companies generated within a taxing jurisdiction of although they primarily target each company's digital each companies digital services taxes may apply to any large multinational that generates revenues from digital services. As of 2025, over 145 countries and jurisdictions, including several Caribbean countries, as I mentioned earlier, Barbados, uh, they implemented theirs. In Jamaica, there is discussion on implementing it in 2027 and Grenada to name a few have signed on the OECD's inclusive framework, which provides guidance and actions for the implementation of those two pillars. This is a very dense uh leadup there and even I myself uh you know had to do the research to provide that proper context. But here to make sense of the digital services tax piloted in Grenada's lower house last week uh Mr. Trevor Forest who is the chairman of lignum security and policy advisor on science and technology uh with the government uh of Jamaica. We also have a Grenadian Kiman Coran, Kiman Korean who is a digital marketing uh strategist and specialist. And of course, we have also joining here joining the panel. We have another Grenadian here that is uh let me pull that up. We have Mr. Dylan Charles, I believe. Uh yes, Mr. Charles, you are a tax law specialist. And of course as a programming note as we get into the segment an invitation was extended to Mr. Kijana Oolano Roma to appear on the program that's Mr. Orlando Roma that is to appear on the program in his ambassadorial capacity as special envoy for the digital economy on Thursday April 30th. He offered to respond to our request by the close of business on that day but declined to do so. However, in a statement released by NDC's pro, uh the honorable Ron Redhead, it says in part, quote, there is no increase in the VAT rate and no new tax is being introduced on the general population. Of course, that is in the context of the new legislation that was just piloted last week. Specifically, the release says it brings digital services supplied from abroad, such as streaming platforms, online subscriptions, and digital advertising as well as cloud-based services into the existing VAT framework. This is all very dense stuff, gentlemen, but I I do hope uh that uh you would be able to help us break it down. Mr. Forest, sir, welcome. Uh Kiman, welcome. Uh Mr. Charles, welcome.

[00:06:23]Welcome to this week's edition of the Bobby Report, gentlemen.

[00:06:26]>> Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Bob. Happy to be here.

[00:06:29]>> Yes. Yes.

[00:06:31]>> Yes. Absolutely. Uh Mr. Forest, I know it's about uh after 10 in Jamaica there, so I hope you you'll be able to get off the platform in time for your lunch. Um but but um and I want to begin with you uh Attorney Charles. Um let us talk about the broader context of digital tax initiative. I was able to give uh some context uh in in a very lay man's way.

[00:06:55]Again, I I know where my place is. I know what my expertise is. Uh tax law is not one of them, sir. And that's where you come in. But let us talk about the context and and its rational for revenue earning potential. Of course, we have to appreciate that uh we live in an economy in a global economy uh that is driven in part uh by e-commerce. So let us talk about those tax implications there.

[00:07:23]>> All right. So you kind of briefly went I think went into the history of it but digital taxation is nothing new to the world.

[00:07:33]>> It's not a new idea is not a new concept. Um do we see the the UN sanation body or the body that seems to wants to guide the world in terms of taxation or global taxation um has been trying to wrap their head around how to tackle this. The simple reason for this is is is that no money or no money at all should be leaving a jurisdiction without being taxed or hitting a tax fence. That is the purpose of or why there is something called withholding tax.

[00:08:10]>> Within tax is there to prevent any money that upon leaving the jurisdiction it it's hit with that fence. But with this new form of business e-commerce as you call it or digital economy money is being we're seeing money leave the jurisdiction and we're not capturing it.

[00:08:27]It is unfair and therefore there are businesses around the world, the Netflixes, the Amazons, the Apples, the Facebooks, they are essentially getting our money without paying our fair share of tax.

[00:08:43]>> So I applaud the government first and foremost for starting the conversation, but I think we're putting the c before the horses. There seems to be I think I I believe no consultation or there hasn't been any proper discussion or prop proper research into how best to go about this. Yes, Barbados did one 2019.

[00:09:04][clears throat] Trinad has some form of it. The rest of Jamaica has their GCT, I believe. Um and they are going to be enforcing or start to enforce it in 2027. They've given I guess the tech companies a time frame to to come into compliance. And that's a big problem here. Compliance. Compliance in the sense that how are we getting these people to come on board?

[00:09:30]>> Yeah.

[00:09:30]>> How are we going to enforce this? Now, I don't want to say too much now, but when Barbados initially did this in 2019, they had a pretty high compliance cost in that they were cooperating with the banks and the fintech companies to scan to see what people were doing and what purchases were being um being made. Mhm.

[00:09:55]>> That seemed to be somewhat controversial to the national um >> it raises questions of privacy for sure.

[00:10:03]>> I mean on the face of it >> I think that's generally what what what happened and then they switched from that model and they went to asking the tech companies to register and if they failed to register they would block them from the jurisdiction. Now again, this is not a new problem.

[00:10:24]>> However, this should have been done 20 years ago. I think I recently just posted this on Facebook as we're having a dialogue about it on Facebook at this point.

[00:10:34]>> Yes. Mhm. Yeah.

[00:10:35]>> This should have been done prior to companies becoming as powerful as they are and as before we became as dependent on them >> on those services.

[00:10:47]>> Correct. Because you go if you if you now decide to go and say, "Hey, if you don't come and register with us and comply with our law, we're going to block you from your jurisdiction." You're going to find that a lot of the services that we have become so accustomed to being unavailable to us at this point in time >> and that is the real concern.

[00:11:08]>> Yeah. Kiman, you live in a jurisdiction or you know for for for parts of the year when you're not in Grenada. uh in Canada they have implemented this um because I I think one of the big questions that uh folks are having and of course we we going to uh do sort of a a much deeper dive and of course Mr. Forest can provide that context as well was in the the implementation of this how will this uh you know uh be be done but of course and how would that affect for example the creatives right how would that affect uh the end users if you will and of course Mr. Charles we will get into the whole question of double taxation later but how is this implemented in Canada Mr. Korean and uh what does that impact look like for for the end users?

[00:12:00]>> Okay, so uh thanks Dr. B. Great question.

[00:12:04]>> Now here's here's the thing though. I think that um we have to clarify something before we even move forward >> because >> we're talking about a digital service tax.

[00:12:16]Now what's being introduced here in Grenada is not a digital service tax. It is a value added tax on digital services. A digital service tax is focused on taxing the income of the companies that are offering a service in your jurisdiction while the value added tax on digital services is focused on um adding a a a consumption tax on the end user of those services. So it is very important to understand that we're not really looking at a digital service tax but it is a value added tax a VAT on on on digital services. Now in Canada, Canada implemented a digital service tax which was 3% um on the income of the large uh multinational companies. Um so most of them were based in the US. Now, important to note though is that tax was repealed last year. So, Canada no longer has a digital service tax. Um because when the when the trade negotiations were happening between Canada and the US and the US government um accused the the government of Canada of um you know um improper like trading relations and so forth taxing the their companies and so Canada actually repealed the digital service tax and refunded the people that actually paid the taxes. So, >> so but but but but but here here here is my and and and and maybe this is just a a question of semantics here in in the way that you're framing this because you're referencing the digital service tax but versus what what did you say a tax on services?

[00:14:08]>> It's VAT is VAT on digital >> VAT VAT on digital services. But aren't we wouldn't this be a case where even if you tax the the the service providers, the tech platforms that host a lot of what we do that they are going to find a way to pass that on to the consumer >> that would allow the consumer to to to to pay.

[00:14:30]>> Oh, absolutely. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if it's a digital service tax or a Vaton digital services. At the end of the day, they will pass on the the the the cost to the end consumer.

[00:14:41]the end consumer is who pays this at the end of the day. Now the the but but the the distinction is is important because with the with the digital service tax.

[00:14:52]Now what's going to happen is we you companies are going to increase the cost of the service to to to compensate for that tax. But with the VAT, they're not increasing the cost of their service.

[00:15:04]They're just adding that VAT um on your final bill when you're paying. So what we implemented in in Grenada is a VAT on digital services and at the end of the day we have to remember that VAT is a consumption tax. So while while legally you are implementing the tax against the the companies and and you're saying okay they are they have to uh collect and remit that tax to the government of Grenada or whichever government. Um ultimately they're not the ones paying it. So their income the company's income is not affected. What's being affected is the end consumer, the small businesses and consumers in Grenada.

[00:15:42]They're the ones that are going to be paying that are going to be paying paying paying that tax.

[00:15:47]>> Uh very interesting. So in your experience in Canada, uh you said that there were refunds.

[00:15:55]>> Mhm.

[00:15:55]>> On on what exactly of was it from the the companies or was it from the revenue authority in Canada? the revenue authority in Canada, the Canada Revenue Agency, um when they repealed the digital service, the digital service tax act um in 2025, um the whatever whatever funds were were collected, it was um redistributed back to back to the end consumer. But but but at the end of the day, no keep that was because of um back and forth and trade negotiation and and the all the issues that were happening between the Canada and US, you know, like those those issues of trade back and forth that were happening there. So that was kind of like a mechanism to say, "Okay, fine. You know what? We're going to concede and and remove the tax here." So that that doesn't I'm not I'm not making that case to say we shouldn't we shouldn't implement it. I'll just say >> well Right. Right. Well [laughter] and and and of course France has implemented it and of course >> we we can go down in a wormhole here because there are other sort of uh political economy factors that one has to consider. But Mr. Forest I do want to bring you in here sir. Welcome to the B report. We have been speaking since last week and uh you know uh this has been an education for me really. Uh so Mr. Forest of course uh Jamaica announced that on their intention to implement of course you're advising the government in in sort of that tech capacity as well in uh Jamaica. Um let us talk about first of all I I want to get your reaction to the legislation that was amended in Grenada. uh and then uh let us talk about big picture now from from a policy level in respect of looking at uh tax administration especially in the context of all of these myriad of digital services that we all use now I think you know we cannot exist really uh if if if if if I leave my phone home for example I would not feel complete [laughter] in a way right so let us talk about let's get into it sir and welcome Thank you. Thank you for having me. All right. So, so you know uh when I heard about the um implementation in in Grenada um and how it you know was planned to be implemented I especially within the context of you know the recent announcement here in Jamaica um which which won't take effect until 2027 because we're still doing work with um uh OECD E >> um it wasn't a surprise to me because this kind of discussion has been going on for a very long time. I think I can recall as far back as 2017 2018 that this kind of discussion was going on.

[00:18:40]But I think [clears throat] the the the biggest challenge that came out was a common thread in all the discussions was how do you actually implement it, >> right? because um there are some advantages, some obvious advantages and and I just want to say that, you know, just to be cautious when we're talking about it, especially when we're informing the public, that this thing doesn't only affect the the Netflixes and the Facebooks and so on. But we're talking about um anything that falls under the umbrella of software as a service, cloud hosting, data storage. So we're talking your Dropbox, your you Google Drive, One Drive. We're talking about hosted services um that many businesses depend on and also software as a service which equates to anything that is a cloud service that from micro to large businesses use. We're talking about software products, apps, all that kind of stuff where you're talking about anything that is consumed in the digital domain >> from a provider that is not resident in your country. So that's the it's it's a very it covers a very broad um spectre of of of products, right? So, so the thing the thing that was a commentary is how do you implement this? How do you collect the tax and who do you collect it from? Right? Because in one instance, you're saying well um should we collect the tax um from those who are purchasing these things?

[00:20:26]>> Yeah.

[00:20:26]>> Or are we to collect the tax from the provider of the service? And if you do that um how do you treat with with a possible risk that you you impose a tax on these entities and they say well you know what we we don't like it so we are going to stop providing service to your country because that that is a possibility right so consider if you will you know as as um my colleague was saying you know Facebook just deciding that yeah we're we're not going to serve you anymore because we don't like this tax that you're levying on us or or consider Microsoft who now moved all of its services to a to a a subscription based provider kind of thing. Suppose they just decided well you know what the 300,000 people that you have in your country is insignificant to our revenues and we really don't like this tax so you know what we're not going to provide services to you anymore. So these are some of the real considerations that >> that you know came up in these discussions. Um I think what what you find now is that the initial push is to say look um we have to create a framework that allows for the providers to voluntarily register um to then allow us to collect tax from them. um frame it in such a way that okay if they're they're going to have to pay tax. Um we all know that is going to be done in such a way that it doesn't impact the revenue. So what you're going to see is an increase in in the cost of the service, right? Um >> but also one of the things that I found curious with with how Grenada is is is is implementing it is that it put it in the in the in the frame of of value added. So now it's not only tax on the non-resident service provider, but there's also um a a tax component on the consumer, >> right?

[00:22:38]>> Yeah.

[00:22:38]>> So it's it's very interesting how how that that occurred. Um so so so and and I think there's some discussion that needs to be had around that. But one of the things that that is is is is clear is that there has to be a mechanism that allows for the external providers to feel comfortable paying over this tax while maintaining the services that we the consumer um have become used to. Um now this is this is obviously a plus and closing this obviously a plus for government in trying to generate new revenue that that has been lost for for for a decade. But the other thing that we have to consider is the fact that local businesses that may have to compete with these foreign business which is why I kind of put things into context about cloud services software as a service. If you're a local business that is trying to compete with, let's say, a QuickBooks online and you have your own competition to something like a QuickBooks, you actually are subject to the tax from the get-go that QuickBooks is not subject to. So, the playing field isn't exactly level there. So it is also an effort >> to level the playing field for the local competitor that is trying to create similar type services and because they are resident in that particular jurisdiction their home country they're already ser um um subject to attacks that their overseas competitors are not.

[00:24:20]So, so let's not, >> you know, avoid that reality as well because that is a a positive for local businesses as well. So, I don't want us to to >> Does that not sound a bit protectionist though in a way?

[00:24:39]>> Well, well, so, so, so the thing about So, so the thing about it is the argument about protectionist is is is almost like a everybody does that. Well, yes, >> because it is what is in your interest, right?

[00:24:50]>> So, so, so it really doesn't matter.

[00:24:53]>> The fact of the matter is that look >> um we have to protect our interests.

[00:25:01]Everybody else is going to protect their interest and and that's the the meat of the matter >> there.

[00:25:07]I think I think >> Go ahead, Mr. Charles. Yes. I think if he was going to try and say if he was protective is whether or not we were going to not charge the locals and charge the international.

[00:25:18]Correct. Yes. Right.

[00:25:20]>> And that that would have been called we call ring fencing. Um >> yes >> and I want to make sure that everyone understands who we're talking about. So the OECD is the organization for economic cooperation.

[00:25:29]>> Economic cooperation and development >> and development. And I want to make that abundantly clear. And that organization is responsible for reviewing all what we do in terms of tax practices and whether or not we're in line with modern um financial practices. And they are actually the persons that put us on blacklist.

[00:25:46]Um and if we don't and that if you are aware of some of the repeals that would have happened in the last 10 years or some of the enactments that would happen in the last years these are the organizations that push us to enact or repeal certain legislations to come in conformity with the rest of the world and it's sometimes not necessar necessarily to our benefit but in this aspect the push to tax the digital economy is in our interest now Kiman and you yourself Dr. B and Dr. forest would have raised some interesting points in that Kiman said the Canadian government had to repay some of these these these companies, right?

[00:26:32]>> I don't know if you guys recall, I think it was 2020 or 2021 when the EU tried to pass their own version of what a digital tax was. Trump essentially threatened to leave NATO and the whole thing just went away.

[00:26:47]>> Yeah.

[00:26:48]the whole thing just went away. So again, I I piggyback on Dr. Forest and Kimon's sentiments that caution needs to be had with this act because if it if if the companies don't don't feel comfortable and they go to their governments, the very thing that we are depending on will be taken away from us. And not just that, but we've seen the attitude and the posture of these geopoliticians nowadays. They may take more Yeah, timing is important.

[00:27:21]I'm glad. [clears throat] >> Yes, I'm glad I'm glad you're raising that point because the point I was going to make earlier there, gentlemen, and and that has to do with the political economy implications especially in the context of the United States now where big tech is closely aligned uh with big government uh in the United States. a lot of the a lot of these tech oligarchs or right-wing aligned people who are aligned to the current administration the regime in Washington. So that they do have uh uh uh exorbitant lobby power and influence. So here is the question I have gentlemen and then I'll get get back to you there Mr. Charles and anyone can can take this. Um, can there not be uh particular uh threats of of uh punitive action on places like Grenada and Barbados who have gone ahead to implement this >> based on what occurred in the EU, based on what occurred in Canada.

[00:28:23]>> Pass this prologue here.

[00:28:25]>> Go ahead.

[00:28:25]>> If if I could jump in real quick, Kimra.

[00:28:27]>> Yes, please.

[00:28:28]>> Go ahead. The reason why I bring up double taxation treaties is not simply just for the the proper pro possible issue of overlapping taxes or possible double taxation. It is because the double taxation treaty will assist or would prevent um the bigger countries from possibly bullying us in any terms or manner because the double taxation treaty would have taken into consideration and contemplated how the countries are to direct their residents and non-residents and how to deal with such issues like this. So Barbados may it while Barbados has this in 2019, Barbados has a double saxion treaty with Canada and US who are the bigger players in terms of the digital economy. So they don't have to necessarily fear about any possible backlash because there's already a treaty and if these countries go against them in in the form of treaty in in in terms of the taxation they could rely on the treaty and send bring them to either the UN or some international court and probably get award some big big form money. Grenada on the other hand the only only country on the first world stage that we have a double taxation treaty with is the UK. you don't have one with the US, you don't want to have one with Canada. So there's nothing guiding this. And then the issue of remittances and issues of how how money is going to be collected and whatnot will be dealt with in the double taxation treaty. So that's my initial comment of seeing me putting the cart before the horse is that we've instead of going and engage these people or engage their their their parent their their their best friend we have cut out the government it seems and are going directly for their residents and we have seen that a particular gentleman is is willing to take some rather forceful action in response. So that is the the caution here again. How much more do we expect to fall out with with um certain countries before taking the proper steps or approach to engaging them?

[00:30:34]>> You know that's a very important >> Yeah. Mr. Forest please pick up on that.

[00:30:38]Yes.

[00:30:38]>> Yeah. That's a very important point that Dylan made. Just to be clear I'm not a PhD so I'm not doctor. Um but but but it is important as it relates to the tax treaties because we do have a double taxation treaty as well with with with the United States and so on. So there are certain luxuries that that a country like Jamaica and any other country in that position have >> but but again it is important to fully understand the impact that these kinds of actions will have on your economy. Um because again we we and and you know we we could always look at what happened in other countries and why they rolled things back and the the the the effect of it. Um but what we also have to do is to understand our own reality which is something that I tr quite a bit in in discussions here. Um we're we're depending or we're sorry we're working with OECD um to come up with a a framework for this right um the challenge I often have with entities like OECD is they don't really understand the realities in in our jurisdictions you know whether [clears throat] it's Grenada Barbados you know Jamaica Canada and it is it is for us to ensure that they understand these realities, right? Because you're looking at it from a global standpoint. Um they throw these things out, people implement it, it doesn't work, you know, they roll it back and in in instances like that, they can afford to do that. Um that's not necessarily a luxury we have. um because the economic impact that we will feel as small island developing states is a lot greater than what say a France would feel or a Canada will feel because if you contemplate what happens if Amazon decides to stop providing services if Microsoft stops providing services if Facebook and well Meta in its entirety stops providing services. You have you have industries, let's say the marketing and advertising industries that are built around the existence of these entities being present and available, right? And contemplate just one day they say, "Yeah, we're not doing business with your country anymore." So, so it's a very complex, you know, set of gears that that are turning and and I think that each each country has to look on it from their very specific reality and treat with it that way. Um, I want to just just conclude by saying timing is very very important because as Dylan said, you have a guy to the north there that he wakes up in the morning and says, "I feel like I'm going to do this. It happens." And the fallout is farreaching, [laughter] right? It's farreaching and and at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter to them.

[00:34:01]But it impacts us. So, so the fact that we're taking our time and you know sometimes it's a good thing to be to not be on the cutting edge or the leading edge or the leading edge.

[00:34:11]>> Sometimes >> take your time. uh make sure that that how you're going to roll this thing out is in keeping with your economic reality and that however you roll this thing out um protects you from any kind of fallout that can occur and and I think the most important aspect of that is this thing called public education because a lot of people don't fully understand how this is meant to work and I and I applaud Go report for doing that because I can tell you when it was merely announced in parliament in Jamaica I saw creatives, developers, everybody in tech industry literally losing their mind. [snorts] They didn't even have any information about how this thing was going to >> it was just an announcement. I actually heard it and and it was a brief announcement. There was nothing >> and the thought people were literally losing their minds and you know I had to kind of say listen guys um >> the thing hasn't been announced. We don't know how we're going to do it. But what I suggest you do is organize yourselves to start lobbying and advocating for what you want it to look like so that the policy makers in conjunction with their OECD partners and so on have a full understanding of how it actually impacts us here in Jamaica as opposed to oh they did it in Barbados, they did it in France. I mean, o OECD has 38 countries. Only three of them are from Latin America. There are no Caribbean countries.

[00:35:57]>> No.

[00:35:59]>> No, they're not. They're not.

[00:36:00]>> So, I just wanted to to to put that yes, Kim. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. You need you need to add. Yes, please.

[00:36:07]>> Yes. Yes. I I want to make a quick point on that because the question you asked was about um taking punitive actions against correct against country >> given given especially given the political economy relationship and I think that is critical because that there is an incestrous again I'm going to wear a critical scholar hat. I am a critical scholar. uh that there is a political economy relationship here uh and and that's a term we use in critical scholarship really between uh big tech uh you know and and and the government in in the United the regime in the United States.

[00:36:40]>> Yes. And and so so that's that's that's that's a consideration. Um but but here's the thing though now while the the the government let's say for example in this case of the US could could push back you know um if they believe that um Grenada's measure um unfairly targets the US tech companies um in this in this context the risk is much lower um because the Grenada measure is structured as a normal VAT on on consumption rather than a special digital service tax on the tech companies revenues. So um like like I said at the beginning right so the a VAT on digital service will say something like if if consumers in Grenada buy digital services then VAT applies because the consumption happens in Grenada and that is widely accepted. um OECD um VAT guidance really supports the the the destination principle meaning that you know um VAT could could could generally acrue um to the country where the fi the final uh consumption occur and the the digital service tax says hey um the large tech companies must pay a special tax on revenue from digital advertising um platforms the the based on everything that that we just spoke about and That's where that's where all the conflict that's where all the conflict arose especially with the EU and with Canada is because the the the government of of Canada and and and the European Union they were taxing the revenues of of of those companies as opposed to it being a a tax levied against the end consumer. So I think in in greater context the the the the risk is much lower because we are not taxing the re directly taxing the revenues of those of those of those companies but we are taxing the the the the consumption that happens within our jurisdiction >> that is >> but but but but that that is provided by uh these companies. So which brings me back to the fundamental question.

[00:38:53]>> How will this be operationalized?

[00:38:55]>> Oh, that's a big question. I mean that is the big question that I think um >> because because again let's just Okay, so I currently have an iCloud subscription. Yes.

[00:39:06]>> Mhm.

[00:39:06]>> Uh Apple levies and when you look at the statement what 99 cents a month for a base level iCloud subscription, right? in that tax statement I think at the end they say what whatever state taxes or whatever it is that they collect right that happens within this current jurisdiction so how will again in the context of Barbados Mr. Charles, you brought this up, you know, how are they going to be determining who uses what service, what subscription that people are using to then determine, okay, that I would be uh, you know, imposing that level on th those particular services that people use.

[00:39:46]>> So, so Dr. Bob, you really, so yes, go ahead. Let him finish. Uh, Kiman, go ahead and then, uh, Dylan, you will jump in after. Yes.

[00:39:56]>> Oh, yeah. No, no, I just going to I just going to say um how based on what the what the what the um the act states um the the bill will look to determine how how does how where the consumption occurs in Grenada, you will use indicators such as um your your like your billing address, um looking at the IP address of of companies, looking at the the bank location and other other indicators that will reflect okay um Dr. Bob's consumption happened in Grenada.

[00:40:27]Therefore, we have to levy that that back um against his his his purchase.

[00:40:32]>> So, >> so, so just to be clear though, um [clears throat] while there are many mechanisms to detect, there are also equally many mechanisms to obscure.

[00:40:48]>> Yes.

[00:40:49]>> So, just just contemplate something like people using VPNs. Yeah, VPN completely obscures your location and hence your consumption habits. Um, it is a very important question. How, which is what I started off with, how are you going to implement and collect? Um, and and I dare say the most effective method because the methods are there.

[00:41:14]the most effective method itself would raise data protection and privacy concerns, [snorts] >> right? Um and I think that is something that that that has to be thought out but but um I believe that [clears throat and snorts] um mechanisms are there to determine where you're consuming from, how you're consuming and so they already have that. They already know this. So, so Apple or Amazon or Microsoft or Netflix knowing where you consume from these controls and monitoring capabilities are already there. So, they would not have a problem doing that. It is if they are willing to work with the the jurisdiction to then provide that because >> meaning if if the tech companies are willing to to agree, >> right? Yes.

[00:42:09]register register with us >> and put I mean and we've done this before for countries that have something called universal service funds or universal access funds. It's a similar kind of situation where the Telos had to remit um every year a certain amount of money based on international call terminations and so on. So, so the the capabilities are there, but is is the tech company and and we we're we're focused on the big ones, but they're more than just them. There are a lot of smaller ones that participate that that we consume um services from that. Some of them may question whether or not they want to participate and so on. And it's the uptake of those registrations from them that also plays an important an important role in how this thing works.

[00:43:07]>> Mr. Charles, yes, you wanted to jump in, sir.

[00:43:09]>> Yeah, I want to jump in. I wanted to piggy back off what Kimron said and >> yes >> address what you your concern was >> cuz he said he mentioned it prior to what you mentioned in your in your invoice is that the US tends to tax based on destination or VAT tends to is a destination tax the end consumer so in light of where you are located and I'm just simplifying this for the general public in light of where you are located you your tax is being is you're attracting that tax cuz you're in the states however ever if you were identified as someone in Grenada, you probably would not be attract that tax.

[00:43:47]But that is only if those companies have mechanism in place to identify and to know that okay, Dr. Bob is in Grenada. I shouldn't be charging him this federal tax or the state tax which is sometimes a sale tax or whatever tax that the particular states have. That however is not clear on how we are going to align with the companies to write off or to not have overlap in taxes because not all of them are we don't I don't want to presume and it's a wrong presumption to have that they are aware of where you're located and that you're not you're not um being double taxed in that situation because that is where double taxation will occur. you'll be charged a tax where I'm going to be paying for something an iCloud in in the states and I'm seeing that very tax because they're a custom charging me and I'm not worried about because I understand that I am using a US-based thing but now I'm going to have to pay that and that because I'm not cognizant that you know I'm supposed to be looking out for these things as an ordinary person and an an accountant or someone versed in tax law would understand okay I'm not supposed to be paying this I'm not supposed to be in that >> that is where the confusion is going to occur. That is where the overlap is going to occur, right? Then we we're not addressing there's no there's nothing I believe in that cuz I double checked again on how that will be taken care of.

[00:45:13]>> Mhm.

[00:45:13]>> Correct. And >> yes. Yeah.

[00:45:16]>> One final one final thing because I want to give I want to give us examples and then these are my friends but for example we are not taking into consideration that costs of things in Korea are very high. Let us use for example hail. Hail is the grenadian version of Uber. We're already complaining that things are in green expensive. I'm going to have that backdrop. Hail adds a 15% value added tax on their charges already. The foreigners who are saying Grenada's destination is a very very expensive destination to to come to are going to see this new charge and say, "Wow, it's 100 US to go from point A to point B.

[00:45:58]Why is that?" And they wouldn't see that, you know, they wouldn't take into account that's just the value of the tax raising the price. It could have been $75. It could have been $80. I'm not doing the maths in my head, but just these sudden increase, they're not going to take into account that it's the VAT that's doing that. So we're not we're not doing a very good job of presenting this to the general public and having them understand because that is actually going to they are definitely going to be one of the people directly impacted by this companies like that like indigenous companies like like the hail app and of course hope and we can get into a whole conversation about fostering innovation and whether or not that stifles innovation that usually is a big conversation that I have with some of my friends who are in tech. uh you know that that is why they don't like government regulation at all in some context but we do gentlemen want to get to some viewer comments because I I believe those are instructive um as well uh someone is saying that I have a Microsoft Office subscription and my annual subscription includes a GST paid to the Canadian government uh Kiman you're in Canada how does that work >> right so so the the company so Microsoft and other companies they have their their physical presence um in in they have a physical presence in in Canada and the in in Canada companies are legally uh um required to to charge GST. This is not a digital service tax or anything. This is just um a tax on on on goods and services that are sold. So yes, so why so why so so ultimately not digital tax?

[00:47:35]>> This ticketing that it's a consumer tax again.

[00:47:39]>> Yeah. Well, yeah, it's definitely a consumer. Yeah, it's it's definitely a a consumer tax on goods and services. It's not it's not a it's not a digital service tax. Um however, um because you you're purchasing from uh Canadian this Canadian subsidiary, I suppose of of of Microsoft, then that that tax is automatically added. Um it doesn't matter which jurisdiction you're you're you're in. What what what matters here now because this GFC is not a digital service tax. Um, it doesn't matter where the end consumer is consuming it from.

[00:48:12]Everybody pays that tax.

[00:48:13]>> Mr. Forest, you wanted to add, >> you want to stick another pin? Go ahead.

[00:48:17][laughter] Stick as many pins as you like, sir. Go ahead, please.

[00:48:22]>> We need to understand that jurisdictions like Canada and the US are global taxation jurisdiction. What does that mean? That they tax income from everywhere. Doesn't matter >> if it comes from inside or outside.

[00:48:35]Unlike Grenada, which is another point I I there's a gray area there.

[00:48:39]>> Grenada is a territorial taxation country which is means that we tax income from in Grenada. So that may be a gray area there where somebody may challenge the digital VAT act.

[00:48:52]>> The digital yes Mr. Forest you wanted to stick a pin as well or or add something.

[00:48:57]>> It's the same it's the same thing Dylan was [laughter] saying, >> right? Okay. No, no worries. Uh we have another comment. uh who is the government representative on the panel?

[00:49:06]I think it's better to get both sides.

[00:49:08]Miss Olivier, I you are assuming that we did not make an attempt to reach both sides. And I do not know if you saw the intro of the program where we articulated that we attempted to reach both sides. So to that, but additionally, Miss Oliver, you're saying we cannot just speak about the OECD without the WTO. This isn't just a tax matter, but international trade as well.

[00:49:29]Gentlemen, could you weigh in on that? I think that's a very salient point uh that Miss Olive is raising. I do not agree with her former point, but I think her latter point stands. Mr. Forest.

[00:49:39]>> Yeah. No. Um the the concept of of of um it being an international trade issue is is is spot on because again we tend to focus on on certain things that you know once you say digital you only digital services you only focus on I like this question >> on certain types of things like Netflix and Facebook and social kind Yes.

[00:50:10]>> But but what you have to start to to to to wrap your mind around is that trade is moving to digital.

[00:50:20]>> So when you have when you have countries digitally transforming and so on and and you're going to find that a significant amount of what they sell can now be in a digital form. um and it's going to represent a significant portion of their GDP. Um international trade considerations become very important because these things set precedent for for things that we may not even know about >> as yet >> um that would fall within the the the category of of of digital services. So, so think about something like this. Um, business process outsourcing there where where you have call centers and that kind of stuff providing services. There are components of of those services that that can be classified as digital services and it it can directly impact jobs. All right. So, so, so, so, so it it's absolutely spot on and we have to contemplate not only um um what you know the economics but but the trade aspects of it as well [snorts] >> and yes, go ahead K.

[00:51:38]>> No, to add to what Mr. Forest just just mentioned um we are we when we're speaking about the the international trade factor one has to also remember that most of the affected platforms and marketplaces and so are large multinational companies that are headquartered primarily in in the in the US and other major economies. So therefore um Grenada must ensure that the the rules are transparent and the implementation is professionally managed. If the policy is is is viewed as um is viewed internationally as a standard that modernization measure um then it aligns with with global standards. However, um for small developing states like Grenada, we must recognize some of the practical realities when dealing when dealing with this. So, one, we have a heavy reliance on access to global digital infrastructure. Um then we also have a dependence on on digital um platforms for entrepreneurship and innovation. And whether we whether we want to accept it or not, Grenada and some of the small island developing states, we generally have less leverage against um multinational technology companies. So um we have to balance you know revenue collection, competitiveness, innovation and international business relation when we are looking to implement those kind of um VA vat system or VAT regimes um within within the country.

[00:53:09]>> Yeah. Absolutely. Uh ve very good question there um from that viewer. Uh we have another question here. Yes, Mr. Forest, you wanted to ask >> I see this question that is up. Um how is >> so I actually want to ask Dr. Forest about this question and the reason why I want to ask him particularly about this question. Yes.

[00:53:28]>> Because let us use examples like Apple like Apple or Apple library or Apple >> um cloud store or whatnot.

[00:53:36]>> Yeah. Uhhuh.

[00:53:38]Apple store specifically, does J is is a Jamaican able to pay or create an account with an with a Jamaican address on Apple store today? I know previously you couldn't, but is it possible today?

[00:53:54]>> I I believe so. Um uh I mean I'm not part of the Apple ecosystem. Um unfortunately, apparently. Um so >> that could be a good thing as well.

[00:54:05]Apple Apple personal.

[00:54:07]>> No, no, but it >> but but but I believe I believe they can now because yes, previously I I do know some years ago that was a problem. Um so using um a Jamaican address um which then restricts the services that you have um is something that that I believe is now possible. um correct to to to speak to to this particular question which is while protecting local business is important many foreign tech services >> aren't offered locally so how should policy makers if I decide which of these services should be subject to this tax those kind of things are you know it amounts to a very complex matrix of of what you zero rate and what you don't based on what you perceive as as economically important national good that kind of stuff. So, I think um it's going to it's going to require um you know certain certain types of of of clarification because if you think about it um if you have an entity that depends heavily on education services provided by something like E, Edex, Corsair, that kind of stuff. Students get affected by these things. professionals get affected by these things because now the the cost of getting their education online suddenly skyrockets. So, so is it now that you say look we have to categorize certain types of services and say if your service falls into this category or umbrella then we will zero rate these um but if it falls into this kind of uh category then the the the VAT regime applies. So I think what you're going and this is why we say you have to it's it's complex to to figure out just how you do it because you can't broad brush because you may broad brush and and and inadvertently affect something that has bigger effects on your on your economy.

[00:56:08]So, so, so, so you kind of have to think it through um and and you know, I envision creating categories um that that you know, this kind of of taxation occurs on and this is why it's important for for local businesses especially in the tech space to organize and make your voices heard that listen we have a lot of these kinds of services that are competing with similar types of services in the United States. We need um you know some tax relief, tax incentive to level the playing field so that we can compete because that now is an option that comes out of this this new kind of tax regime. So it's something that we you know local business and I know tech entrepreneurs do not like to do that. um myself being one but I I've many years ago gotten over that but generally tech entrepreneurs don't like to get into the business of business.

[00:57:11]>> No >> right so [laughter] it is something that you have to understand now because this stuff affects you and it affects the viability of your business. Mhm. Uh let's get to another. The implications of how these services will be monitored by government uh gives a level of invasiveness into the lives of private citizens. Here he has not been seen. I think you addressed this before uh Mr. Charles of course that that uh uh viewer is is really echoing that and I again I don't know how they will be monitoring those things especially given the context of the the of course you know Apple for example talks about how encrypted and how private their data is etc etc um but you know I >> and to be clear for your for your >> yes >> for your viewer >> privacy doesn't exist anymore >> but this is true I I I say that >> a long time ago >> listen things that are being monitored and that people are concerned.

[00:58:08]>> I say that to my students all the time.

[00:58:10]I say that to my students all the time.

[00:58:12]>> They're monitoring it anyway. It's how >> and again in the container about >> well this is true and somebody's asking again somebody's uh again this is a WhatsApp question uh about the local software companies that are offering services that would monitor for example your IP and your billing address. Uh does anyone know if there is any infrastructure in the context of Grenada for this or perhaps you can speak to other jurisdictions how those things are monitored?

[00:58:38]>> Yeah, Telos did that.

[00:58:40]>> Oh, telco. Yes. And of course, Margaret is also saying here interesting that he should mention the Telos because there's still areas where they managed to evade taxes on some services.

[00:58:52]Thoughts?

[00:58:56]>> So, well, go ahead. I I was >> No, no, no, no. I wasn't going to comment on the on on the on the telos part per se, but just the overall monitoring. Um like like like like Mr. Forest says there there's no privacy. Um our our bank transactions for example are currently being monitored to protect against anti-money laundering schemes, right? So we we we're being monitored whether we whether we like want to accept it or not. It's just the reality of the world that we live in today.

[00:59:23]>> Yes.

[00:59:24]>> Yes. That but >> go ahead. It is the manner and the purpose of which they are sharing the information. So someone can gladly >> challenge it if they want to.

[00:59:35]>> If it doesn't have the teeth in the legislation for this that says >> XYZ needs to access XYZ then they don't have the right to access the data if it's not legitimately borne out in the legislation. So it's not just a oh they have access already. They have to prove that they have the right to access the information.

[00:59:57]>> It is just not a >> freeall. That's a key thing here.

[01:00:01]>> Purpose and intent is very important.

[01:00:03]>> Yes, we we are going to take two more uh salient comments here. Um uh one of them here if if I can go ahead uh someone was making a very important point and I think again which brings us I believe to there we go Mr. Bob Marisho. Good morning, good afternoon Mr. Marish show uh Mr. Host this is very wellreasoned arguments by all three invitees and should be carefully considered by the powers that be aka the government of Grenada. Now here is a simple example.

[01:00:34]Uh the Trump administration imposed a 3% tax on remittances on monies leaving the US knowing fully well that remittances are an integral part of these countries budget sheet. Of course the GDP of most of our island really. uh did they have a say? Meaning did the countries uh who were imposed that levy have a say in what they did? Of course I don't. Of course hegemony would not allow a small country like Grenada to go lobby Washington and tell them well don't put the 3% tax on remittances. But your your take on that gentleman because I think Mr. Marisho's point I think he's bringing up a broader question here on on the whole maybe the power imbalance here that exists. But that's exactly what it is, right? That's exact that's what it is. There is a I mean you you can't go and tell Washington, hey, um you not you you don't have the power to to to to do that because remember they're not they're not necessarily taxing Grenadian income or consumption in Grenada or anything happening in Grenada. What they're taxing is what's happening in their jurisdiction. We don't have any control over their jurisdiction. It just so happens that the money is being sent to Grenada.

[01:01:47]But all the transaction, all the economic activities, everything that that money has been sent is earned in their jurisdiction. So they can tax it however they feel like. Unfortunately, we don't have any control over that or any leverage that is concerned.

[01:02:01]>> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Gentlemen, we need a part two of this. And if Mr. Orlando Roma is listening. As I said in the intro [clears throat] of the program, and I would say this at nauseium, I've said it at nauseium, we did invite Grenada's uh advisor on the creative economy, the creative and digital economy, Mr. Roma, on Wednesday or Thursday of last week. He said he was going to get back to us at the close of business on that day. Uh he did not. We followed up and I can read the text to you who are inquiring. I said we requested a follow-up. This is the close of business, Mr. Roma. What say you? We have not heard from Mr. Roma since. We called him. There's been no response. So I I I take strong exception to these accusations that our panel is not balanced because a government representative is not a we attempted to reach out to a government representative. We also read the statement that is our standard practice here. We read the statement from the National Democratic Congress in respect of how they view this. But gentlemen, we are going to take a quick break. But in the process of taking this break and then we'll go to closing comments from you all because we have to get to the final segment. Um, Grenada was blacklisted uh by the OECD on the 1st of April 2002.

[01:03:21]I want us to remember that and and I will go ahead and share uh again because I do remember that I was a young reporter at the time. I I I I say this all the time. I was a young reporter when those things happened. It may sound like a broken record, but I'm glad that I at least I have that context and that history. So, I'll go ahead and share some history. The year was 2001. The administration was the new national party led by Dr. Keith Mitchell at the time. And the the title, and this is of course from Fininsson, which I believe the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network. I believe they also work with the OECD as well because it was sort of an OECD blacklist. It said this was following the OECD notice of a blacklist on Grenada. Banks and other financial institutions operating in the United States are advised to give enhanced scrutiny to all financial transactions originating in or routed through to or through Grenada or involving entities organized or doiciled or persons maintaining accounts in Grenada. The need for such enhanced scrutiny is discussed in the remainder of the advisory. It talks about Grenada being a Commonwealth country and all of that.

[01:04:30]Um, but then again, it talks about the banks that exist in Grenada, but of course the context of that was at the time that blacklist was the offshore companies that existed in Grenada at the time, right? Uh, and of course they went on to list all of the concerns that they had with the offshore banks that existed in Grenada, the deficiencies that existed in offshore banking. Of course, it was the new national party under Dr. Mitchell that introduced offshore banking uh to uh Grenada at the time that led the OECD and again you know the these Bretonwoods institutions and again my bias may come out here but these Breton Woods institutions anytime we try to again find ways of uh self- sustaining revenue uh whatever we do then you know you're accused of corruption you know we've seen the same thing with the CBI now but I digress gentlemen we'll take a quick break and come back uh for some closing comments from you all and any final thoughts and suggestions that you may also uh want to offer government in respect of how that can be implemented. Please stand by.

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[01:06:11]>> Don't go there.

[01:06:12]>> You are a technocrat. I mean, you can speak to whether or not it was appropriate or inappropriate for that to occur. Would you have done that as a permanent secretary?

[01:06:21]>> Politicians get the information from wherever source that they can.

[01:06:25]>> That is that that's going to be the extent of your answer.

[01:06:28]>> Yeah.

[01:06:28]>> Don't go there.

[01:06:29]>> There's a lot of noise around the data protection bill [music] that in my respectful view is not warranted.

[01:06:37]>> I I was one of those making noise and it's simply because I was concerned about that specific section 33.

[01:06:43]>> Don't go there. Are you [music] going to be offering yourself up as political leader of the party?

[01:06:49]>> You see, you've called me have much more than diplomatic passport, but I don't buy that.

[01:06:52]>> Don't go there.

[01:06:53]>> What is the relationship like between you and your leader, Dr. Mitchell, your boss, Dr. Mitchell, >> and I'm not sure how to explain how to how to to answer this question at this time. I prefer not to answer.

[01:07:03]>> Don't go there.

[01:07:05]>> They said that uh you approached the bank for the loan uh before the election and that it only materialized after the election. There are also conflicting uh reports around the quantity of uh monies that were received. Uh what is the reality here? [music] >> People try to explore the truth and to make all kind of things about it. I just keep quiet. So if you notice, I was really and truly quiet about the whole matter.

[01:07:25]>> Well, except except with not not with the New Today newspaper. The New Today newspaper reported on this. So I'm not sure we're quiet on this question.

[01:07:34]>> Go ahead, honorable. Go ahead. Go ahead.

[01:07:36]>> Well, I'm just I'm just trying to answer your question, [laughter] right?

[01:07:38]>> Don't go there. I think we just spoke at length about the regularization framework. So >> yes, we did. But let us talk let us talk a prime minister. Let us talk about the workers who are dismissed.

[01:07:47]>> The bub report. [music] We go there.

[01:07:53]>> And yes, folks, the bub report goes there every week. We go there every week. Uh we have right now over on YouTube 438 people watching. Please folks on YouTube just hit that like button for us please. uh because we may have to pay a tax on on on this content.

[01:08:09][laughter] Help us get the algorithm up so that YouTube whatever little uh royalties that YouTube pays to our channel um because you know I would not attack a service fee on on our precious advertiser SA [clears throat] Johnson Funeral Home. I would not want to do that at all. [laughter] He doesn't want to do that. So gentlemen, thank you so much for pairing on the program this week. I really really really enjoyed this discourse. I learned a lot from this segment and we were very intentional. We were very intentional with respect to how we framed this panel because we felt it was important to hear from the experts in the field who have studied this and who are advising governments in the region.

[01:08:53]Well, one government in the context of Jamaica. Mr. Forest, I don't know if you advise other governments, but you are in the space. Mr. Kuran, you are in the space. Maybe you can uh you know uh audition to advise the government of Grenada on this as well. Who knows?

[01:09:07]Maybe they may take your advice you. So uh gentlemen, thank you so much for your appearing on the B report. So we'll go over we will start with you Mr. Korean for some closing comments.

[01:09:18]>> Okay. So uh first of all um Dr. Bob, thank you. Thank you for the invitation to be on the Bob report again. I believe this is my second time being on here. So it appreciate appreciate the consideration.

[01:09:31]So for as a closing statement I would say that the government has a legitimate policy objective in modernizing you know vax system for the digital economy. Um at the same time the the public also has legitimate concerns regarding um implementation which is which was discussed here. Um enforcement like how do you enforce this? Um the also the administrative readiness and the possible impact on on consumers and small businesses during an already um economic a difficult economic period. Uh this will have some kind of impact on on cost of living whether we choose to accept it or not because again the VAT is being levied against consumption happening within the jurisdiction of Grenada and and both things can be true.

[01:10:24]There can be the concern while there can be the legitimate policy objective in modernizing the Bat system. Both things can be true at the same time. Now the conversation therefore should move beyond what I consider certain political slogans and focus on uh transparency. It should focus on the practicality of this. It should focus on fairness. And we also need to look at the economic reality that that we are that we are being faced with. So so um just to close it off what I will say is the the issue is not simply whether you know digital taxation is is right or wrong. I think the issue is whether or not Grenada is fully prepared to implement it effectively and fairly. And that's that's where I would close.

[01:11:14]>> Absolutely. Uh Mr. Charles.

[01:11:18]>> All right. So, my closing remarks, I'm going to start off with what you actually ended with before the break, which is that the concern here is not to end back up on any list or any blacklist. And there's a real concern potential for that. As Mr. Coran stated earlier, there is taxes probably in Canada, maybe not be in the US that would not be removed or we have no understanding of how they're not going to overlap with this VAT. And if it is found that we are having overlapping taxes or there's double taxation, that is a ground to very well end back up on a blacklist. And you see the fallout that a blacklist causes. Um my second point for closing is the compliance cost. There was quite a lot of back and forth and about it on Facebook that these companies don't care. They they've been doing it for other jurisdictions.

[01:12:09]No, we are not in line with countries like Jamaica and Barbados who have double taxation treaties where there's models for repaintances and tradeoffs etc. So a compliance issue for this jurisdiction is definitely going to arise. How do we accurately report to Grenada and remit to Grenada what is their due share of this VAT or how do we collect the VAT on their behalf and that is going to come with a compliance cost not just on the companies by the way the government also has to understand how what they are going to have to do in implementing this and I don't think that a lot of consideration has been given on both ends of the fence I have no issue with this I think this is the a good step forward I understand that we're trying to increase our tax base and while we're understand that we're trying to increase our tax base, there are actually other ways to increase our tax bases that don't affect or do not require an amendment as drastic at this.

[01:13:10]Now we we're lacking some efficiencies and I want to caution the government or implore the government on trying to make our taxes our tax methods on capturing abilities better and more efficient. Um >> I think proper steps are taken to engage these countries and then engage the the companies that they represent.

[01:13:33]>> We will be in a proper footing to realize what the this act can do.

[01:13:39]>> Yeah. Mr. Charles, thank you so very much. I don't know who your principal in PBC was, but uh I suspect that princ Did you attend PBC? I'm I'm making an assumption. All of your other relatives did. I don't know. Okay.

[01:13:51]>> Mr. Jeremiah, >> Mr. Dominic Jeremiah was your principal.

[01:13:55]Okay. Just Mr. Fo is just some local Grenada High School banter. I don't know if you have that in Jamaica, but uh [laughter] it's a thing in Grenada, you know.

[01:14:05]>> Quite so. Quite so.

[01:14:06]>> So, Mr. Charles, thank you so much, sir, for pairing. And of course, Mr. Forest, over to you, sir. Uh again, you know, gentlemen, and and one of the things I think um as as a call to action here uh you know, we we we we are hermetically sealed now in in all uh tech, everything tech if you will. And I think there is a need for much more robust and sustained digital education that just goes beyond, you know, creative content creation. But at the policy level, I I think that there is so much uh digital policy conversations that need to be had so as to educate our citizenry on on on on on the financial implications for them really of those things. So uh my my commitment here is that we will continue to have those conversations. Again, the the you know the uh door is open for the government to appear on the program uh as as we always do. That's that that's that's our MMO. Uh so thank you again, Mr. Charles. Mr. Forest over to you sir.

[01:15:07]Closing.

[01:15:07]>> Yeah. No, I just want to to reiterate everything that that um was said before and also commend [clears throat] Bob report on and having these kinds of discussion because that public education I find is extremely important >> so that people fully understand.

[01:15:26]One of the things you find is that when you're at a policy making level, you see things that the common man may not see. So trying to articulate why is often times lost. But but I think from a standpoint of what has transpired, you know, I mean, listen, this stuff is going to happen.

[01:15:50]Um, as we move into more more into the the age of digital, you know, digital economies, this sort of stuff is is inevitable. So, it's either they deal with it now, I deal with it later. Um what is clear is just the architecture for these kinds of things are are especially as it relates to what Grenada is trying to do is somewhat sound um and it's it's aligned with the the global let's let's be diplomatic and say global best practices. Yeah.

[01:16:21]>> Yeah. [laughter] >> Um but but however that that came about um I mean it has some upsides. um will be you know it's a good revenue capture measure for for for government. It in my opinion serves to you know [clears throat] level the playing field uh depending on on the kind of business that you're in.

[01:16:45]Um but it also has some obvious risk because the cost the consumer um will conceivably increase. uh but not only the consumer businesses and and and so on you know micro small and medium enterprises will will feel it. So I think what it comes down to, which is something that we we battle with. I know we battle with it with it in Jamaica and I I've seen through my travels across the region that it's a similar thing. But it comes down to execution and implementation, right?

[01:17:18]>> Yes.

[01:17:19]>> It's as simple as this. If you get the implementation right, you win. You see, if you get it wrong, you're going to have a cost a living nightmare, which is a political problem, which um no politician or government would want to have to treat. So, all efforts need to be focused on getting it right, looking at all of the components um in a in a detailed way.

[01:17:53]>> Mhm. and treat with it based on the realities of your specific jurisdiction.

[01:18:01]You cannot copy and paste what prevail.

[01:18:06]Yes, that's very important point. Yes, very salient point sir.

[01:18:10]>> Yes.

[01:18:11]>> So, so, so I I will tell you I'll be watching this one closely as well. um and and you know seeing how it plays out for you because again you have put yourself um in the position to be a a use case and white paper for the rest of us.

[01:18:29]>> Yes, >> Grenada that is [laughter] >> Grenada that is of course yes sir. Yes, Mr. Forest.

[01:18:34]>> Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. Um um it has been a pleasure. It's a great discussion.

[01:18:40]>> Yes, absolutely. Gentlemen, thank you so much Mr. Forest. I'll have some aki and saltfish later this week in honor of you being here on the program today [laughter] in the spirit of in the spirit of regional unity. Okay.

[01:18:54]>> Excellent. [laughter] Excellent.

[01:18:55]>> Absolutely. All right, gentlemen. Thank you so much for appearing on the program this week. Hi everyone. The Bub Report is committed to being fairless, balanced, and independent, bringing you the stories that matter most without [music] compromise. Now, do us a favor.

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