Solana Just Undercut EVERY Crypto Exchange!JTX Launches!Jito Labs CEO INTERVIEW

[00:00:00]Salana is about to make a major move and that is directly at centralized exchanges possibly knocking them out of the game today. We'll break it down for you you guys. You don't want to miss it.

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[00:00:50]Use our code down below. It's going to give you some additional discount. And they do have some Bitcoin rewards up until the 26th of July. So, you got a few days before that goes away. So, check it out. Listen, I want to bring on Lucas Brutder, who is the CEO of Judo Labs. We've had him on the show before, but let's break down what's happening with JTX. Lucas, welcome into the show.

[00:01:12]>> Thanks for having me. Yeah. Last time we were chatting at uh I think it was Accelerate and we just announced so excited to be back here.

[00:01:20]>> Yeah. Yeah. So, we knew it was coming and today is launch day. Uh it's available out there for everybody from what you're telling me. So JTX is is up and running. Um first of all, what do you feel someone that doesn't really understand what JTX is trying to do that maybe is coming over from centralized exchanges and are maybe considering a JTX usage? What would you say is the major draw for that?

[00:01:45]>> Yeah, I would say it's the professional order execution. We really try to abstract away a lot of the like nitty-gritty details of what's going on on the blockchain and just make it a really smooth user experience. So you can sign in with your email and all the the key management is kind of handled behind the scenes by privy. Um try to abstract away the gas as much as possible and just make a really really clean user experience with really good order types. Yeah, I think you look at the amount of movement that's already happening on the Salana chain, you can see this. I think this could be one of the things that starts to accelerate Salana dramatically in terms of transactions. So, this is going to be interesting to watch. I'm looking at fees as well because this is something that uh is continuing to be this surprised me even when I was looking at this just to give you guys an example of some of the fees here versus average price if you were going on to a centralized exchange. Talk to me a little bit about that because this could be one of the killer features that you guys have available.

[00:02:49]>> Yeah, I think this goes back to how good execution is on Salana. The cheapest place to buy many assets, Salana, Bitcoin, Zcash, tokenized equities even soon, is on Salana. A lot of this is from prop amms and you know, we can maybe dive into that a little bit later, but there's just a lot of really good market makers competing those spreads down on JTX. the fees, you know, the if you were to make the same swap on a centralized exchange at the same time, you can actually save money on JTX and get access to many of the assets that are available on centralized exchanges.

[00:03:28]So, a lot of that's from Salana and uh the the features that you get inside JTX.

[00:03:34]>> This spread uh I'll zoom in on that just to give you an example right here. This is a live feed. So again, this goes backs into really adv building an advantage on the fee side of things against the centralized exchanges. I'm kind of curious. Do you think you're going to see more DeFi people that are going to be a JTX customer or do you think we'll see more people that would would migrate from a centralized exchange?

[00:03:58]>> I think over time it's clear that users will come from centralized exchanges.

[00:04:02]Okay. and even people outside of crypto.

[00:04:06]I think there's going to be a ton of tokenized equities and stocks that are going to come on chain. We're already seeing this accelerate. I think it's only going to get faster and faster eventually. I think within the next few months, you'll be able to trade any stock you want on Salana 24/7, 365.

[00:04:23]Today, we're going after the Salana users because they already know, you know, how Salana works and they're really good customer to provide feedback. We've got a lot of really good feedback from kind of the the two previous weeks of like slowly rolling it out to people and once we get all that feedback in start to build out the app more then really targeting those people on centralized exchanges and then it's like the people that traded stocks on Robin Hood or Interactive Brokers and things like that.

[00:04:51]>> Listen, I'm looking at this right here.

[00:04:53]Um, and it's called Smart Fill. You know this, but um >> I was a little confused how this works.

[00:05:00]So, one order, but you're doing all sorts of transactions in the background.

[00:05:05]>> Explain this to us. And can you walk me through how this works?

[00:05:10]>> Yeah. So, yeah, you can think of smart fill like a very fast T-W. The the core idea that we had here is like you were just showing the uh prop amm spreads on this Solana USDC pair. The spreads are super tight on chain. The liquidity is uh really good too. But um we kind of this realization that some assets that exist on centralized exchanges, you can rely on arbitrageers closing the arbitrage between the centralized exchange and decentralized exchange. If you want to make a large order on chain, if you want to buy like $5 million of solo USDC, your slippage on chain is probably going to be really high. So like you can do that or you can run like a multi-hour t- op and kind of get the same thing. There wasn't really something in between where it's like I just want to do one click and get filled as fast as possible with the best pricing. So smart fill is essentially like a super fast top. Uh the orders just run 1 second apart. I think you can run it up to 2 minutes long. And uh you know if the price on chain kind of deviates from the centralized exchange then you can count on those arbiters coming back in and essentially that will just guarantee you the best price for one click on chain.

[00:06:28]>> Can you show me actually how this would execute on the platform?

[00:06:32]>> Yeah, let me pull something up real quick. So um so yeah, this is JTX uh very clean and minimal.

[00:06:39]>> Um so yeah, you can see that we have our order types here. So, uh, let's say I want to sell $75 of USDC into Salana. I can click it. Boom. It's filled. And you can see here this good trade pops up.

[00:06:54]>> Okay.

[00:06:54]>> So, uh, you can see here we got.13% better price on JTX compared to the centralized exchange. I think the the savings for these like pro traders is really going to add up a lot. And then, yeah, we can go into uh, smart fill. So, let's see. I'll sell soul for USDC. So I'll go into smart fill. Let's say I want to sell.5 soul for USDC. You can do auto duration. Right now it has me configured to five orders once every >> 0.8 seconds.

[00:07:26]>> We can go longer, too. So 30 seconds.

[00:07:28]I'll do that.

[00:07:29]>> Okay.

[00:07:30]>> And um >> I'm going to enable automated trading on this account. Click it.

[00:07:34]>> And you'll kind of start to see these uh >> smart fills come in. So, it's what it's doing is it broke up my order into a lot of small orders. It's starting to fill them. You can go to the open orders tab here and start to uh see the the status bar increment down here as it fills up over time.

[00:07:54]>> Interesting.

[00:07:54]>> So, we'll buy $58 of JTO once every 30 seconds. when let's say that you were trying to do a large order, say something like a you know a million dollar order, >> how many orders would that break it up into?

[00:08:11]>> It will autosuggest for you.

[00:08:14]>> Okay.

[00:08:14]>> Um Oh yeah, there is a minimum order size of a dollar for smart fill. And then yeah, you have uh you know, you have your standard orders here, market smart fill that we just talked through.

[00:08:24]>> We have uh limit orders as well. So, these are actually like truly resting orders on Salana. Um, you know, you could place a limit order. I want to buy JTO at 6 and it'll actually be sitting there and it'll get filled. These are like limit orders that actually work, which sounds like such a like funny thing to say. Um, but uh >> a lot of limit orders on Salana, they don't work. They're not resting. You know, these are actually resting limit orders. They're resting on order book.

[00:08:53]>> We have uh t-bops as well. So you can like say I want to run this T-W starting in 30 minutes for an hour. Uh we also have stop loss, take profit and we'll have some other cool order types as well. Okay.

[00:09:07]>> And then um you can see your portfolio as well.

[00:09:10]>> So all of this built into the platform itself. Is there anything in terms of additional features that are going to be rolling out soon or do you feel you guys have you know V1 pretty much ready to rock?

[00:09:21]>> Yeah. So yeah, this is uh I would say today is literally day one. So the past few weeks have been day zero rolling out the platform as it is, fixing a ton of bugs. Super thankful for all the people have tested it out. I think next we're going to roll into equities. So there's a lot of cool equities stuff going on.

[00:09:41]You know, let's just pull up some equity here. Apple.

[00:09:47]Sometimes when you're pulling up equities on crypto charts, like you'll notice there's like a ton of wicks and the charts look weird. Like the volume is kind of nonsensical. We're going to make the best equities experience on Salana. So we're going to have like the charts will be pulled from equities platforms, not from onchain. People don't care about the onchain price. Like you'll see some of these like wicks sometimes when the liquidity is low >> and uh people don't care about that. So we'll have that. We'll have RFQS. will have all the equities information. So, we're super excited about that. And then um yeah, I think after that we'll like have like a better explore page so you can find assets better and like you know surface some some trades to make there and then later this year early into next year rolling out prediction markets per and really just listening to what people want. So on the equity side, something that I'm kind of curious if this is available now or soon. Would you be able to take or find a way to merge say ano and an X stock available uh when you look at tokenized equities and then >> JTX give me essentially decide on which is the best bang for my buck for that, you know, for that, you know, is there a way to do that now?

[00:11:04]>> That's exactly what we're going to do.

[00:11:06]Yeah.

[00:11:06]>> Oh, okay. So it's coming. leaking some alpha here. But um >> Oh my gosh. Okay, [laughter] here we go.

[00:11:11]>> Um but yeah, I mean I think people don't necessarily care about and Xtocks and backpack. Like some people care about the nuances and there are nuances around each one, >> but um I would say decent amount of people don't. They want to see the Apple chart. They they don't want to see like Apple X or Appleo or Apple Backpack. Um they want to see the Apple chart. They want to be able to choose from multiple sources to get the best price. And so a lot of the platforms even in JTX today, it's like really token centric where I think this kind of changes it to be like these this equity feature will be equitycentric >> and the tokens kind of like the side piece essentially.

[00:11:57]>> Okay. Okay. I like it. Well, that's that will be fantastic when that comes out.

[00:12:02]You speak of backpack. I was looking at this. We and we've showcased this before on the show uh in terms of one of the few companies that's been approved in the EU. You guys of course saw us uh kind of breaking this a few weeks ago when Backpack was approved there uh within the Mika architecture of what's happening there. Is this essentially I don't know is this kind of a a little bit of a Trojan horse into the EU for JTX? Yeah, I can't necessarily comment there right now, but um I would say Armani was the first founder that I met in the Salana ecosystem. Uh we've obviously stayed in touch over the the past few years and been working um talking to them a little more closely recently and it's kind of just like a full circle moment. Armani is just a total grinder. He's playing a very long game that most people are not willing to play. He's definitely sacrificed some short-term gains to get there, but I think the prize for him is going to be massive. And there's a lot of cool stuff going on.

[00:13:01]>> Listen, Backpack is one of those it's a sleeper right now that I think is starting to show its its signs that it might be uh a titan in the making. So, we're going to be watching that one pretty closely.

[00:13:12]>> Um, will Jetto ever launch its own app like Jupiter did? What What's your plan?

[00:13:17]>> Oh, yeah. We'll definitely have mobile.

[00:13:19]Um, I actually have JTX on my phone as like a a personal web app. The experience is definitely not as great as a mobile app. Yeah. So, yeah.

[00:13:28]>> Yeah, we'll have an iPhone and Android app at some point uh pretty soon here cuz Yeah, I think I was just looking earlier today and I think 50% of people were on mobile. So, there's definitely a large demand for it.

[00:13:41]>> Yeah, huge demand. What about uh something like Phoenix PES? What do you think? Hondo's per starting to trade. Uh we're starting to see all sorts of activities around the per market itself.

[00:13:52]>> Yeah, we're going to use Phoenix BPS. Um can't really comment on like a timeline on when that'll be ready, but it's definitely uh on our to-do list, let's say. I think that team is one of the best in the space. They built a fully native per stex on Solano when many people say it couldn't be done.

[00:14:09]Definitely increasing the rate at which listings are coming out. I think the part where Phoenix will really shine is when they enable non USDC collateral and that will really show the benefit of having all of this on a compostable L1.

[00:14:26]You can imagine a world where you can like deposit your uh S&P 500 into Phoenix and use that as collateral. I think that's the world we're going towards.

[00:14:36]>> That's huge. It's gonna it's going to be massive shift. Yeah, massive shift for sure. other things that we've talked about that I think are massive is coming uh within kind of the confines of China.

[00:14:47]And one of the things we've focused on a couple of weeks ago was one of the uh semiconductor products that is uh and you guys have probably seen that video we put out around CXMT. CXMT now launched within Hyperlid. When do you think Salana is going to start getting some of these early listings like this versus what's happening with Hyperlid?

[00:15:08]because Hyperlid, they've been killing it with this kind of offering.

[00:15:12]>> Yeah, Hyperliquid, Trade, XYZ, those teams are super cracked. I hope that we start to see these things later this year. I don't know like too much about the CXMT situation other than I think I saw something on like how the uh how it was potentially extremely mispriced by the bankers. uh you know you might see some different price action on hyperlquid than what you would expect and maybe people can participate in that upside. In general people want to trade they want to trade the untradeable.

[00:15:43]>> Exactly.

[00:15:43]>> So like these preipos >> prediction markets like some of the the compute things that uh call she's doing Salana's definitely getting better at that like we're seeing that with Sunrise uh getting Monad and some other assets listed on Salana day one. Like who cares if they're not natively born on Salana, but you need to be able to trade them.

[00:16:05]>> Exactly.

[00:16:05]>> I think trading is kind of the end state for blockchains. It's going to be the largest revenue driver for these blockchains, too.

[00:16:12]>> No doubt. Speaking of uh you know, we're we're kind of looking at the centralized exchange space. You have Brian Armstrong jumping out on X today and he does a little bit of cooking in terms of the trenches side of base, which is kind of surprised me. I thought it was, in my opinion, I thought it was a little bit of a misstep on the PR side, but what do you think? Was this a why why go this direction? I mean, because this seems like it's just kind of an anti >> Yeah.

[00:16:38]>> anti- trenches here.

[00:16:40]>> Yeah. Um, I would say two things. One is uh either legal, his legal team got upset at him. Uh >> um or the other one which I think is also reasonable is like he is the CEO of a you know I don't know how big Coinbase is. I assume it's several thousand people and uh he's potentially is just like kind of lost touch with what's going on on crypto Twitter.

[00:17:05]>> Okay.

[00:17:05]>> And this is I'm actually kind of bullish on Coinbase right now because they brought in Kobe to run the base app. Uh previously was Jesse running it. He kind of stepped aside and is having Kobe run it. For those that don't know, Kobe's like OG crypto Twitter. He's probably kind of lost touch a little bit, but I feel like he's still in the know a lot.

[00:17:27]Coinbase acquired Echo for a few hundred million, which was a company Kobe started, and now he's going to be taking over the base app. I think he's super in the weeds on this stuff. And so I'm actually kind of bullish on that because it's kind of like fresh blood in in the company and a new uh potentially take a new spin on things.

[00:17:47]>> But then you have Vlad kind of going the exact opposite route, you know, which I thought was >> kind of interesting, you know, inside there are two wolves, memes and RWA.

[00:17:57]>> Do you think that that is I mean you kind of compare Vlad to what Brian's doing. Vlad seems to be a little bit more ahead of this than I think Coinbase. What do you think?

[00:18:07]>> Yeah. Uh Vlad's got that dog in him for sure. He's just a killer operator. I mean, look at what they've built. Um, you know, started out as free stock trading and now it's kind of like this house of finance like banking and lending and preipos. They got that dog in them. Seem to be doing pretty well on the the Robin Hood chain. We'll see if it it stays, but uh they seem to be making it a poor a core part of what they're building. I think it kind of just validates like what we're doing with JTX, like large kind of CFI operators are going more into DeFi. I think that trend is going to continue.

[00:18:44]>> Why not just do something like, you know, a trench mode toggle, you know, where you could just you're a trader, you get to say, I'm want to be in the trenches and just trench mode and you get those kinds of >> of uh you know, offerings to you. That that kind of solves the whole problem, doesn't it? Because then it's trader directed.

[00:19:01]>> Yeah. Are you saying in JTX or Robin Hood? JTX, Robin Hood, anywhere in these should be should be doing this.

[00:19:08]>> Yeah, we've been getting a lot of requests for it. I think our execution would be the best in the game. Um, you know, it's it's definitely something we're talking about. I think the one thing that we want to differentiate JTX on is like the feel when you open it up.

[00:19:21]It's not like shoving all these super vulgar meme coins down your face. If you want to trade that, fine. Like, be my guest. I trade that stuff, too. But uh you know, I think if you like you're like, "Hey, like check out this cool app, Paul. Like you can do all your your finances and trading on it and it's like all these like meme coins." I think it's going to turn people off. I think that there's uh there's definitely room for a trench mode.

[00:19:45]>> Any plan to add Robin Hood chain stocks?

[00:19:48]>> Uh no plan right now. I think that Salana's going to win that. All right, let's talk about on-ramps because this is one that of course is always questioned especially when you look at def decentralized exchanges versus what we see in the six site. I think right now this is still to me is still one of the killer issues that we're facing. You still have to have either a Robin Hood app or a Coinbase app running over here for on-ramping. Any plans to change that in the future? Where do you see this going?

[00:20:18]>> There's a few options. The fees are pretty high on them. There are some promising options that we need to explore like fun fund XYZ I believe is one.

[00:20:28]>> I've used other crypto apps where the the Apple Pay fee is like 9%.

[00:20:33]>> It's ridiculous.

[00:20:34]>> No.

[00:20:34]>> Um so it's definitely a non-starter for us.

[00:20:37]>> Mhm.

[00:20:38]>> Well, listen, I think uh the on-ramp is going to be one of the one of the key ways that we're going to see mass adoption start to kick off if we can truly get a good on-ramp solution. So hopefully you guys will be one of the ones out there that lock it in. I am looking at JFP38 right now. Uh this confirms Jetto as a token centric network. Explain this to me and what it means for Jetto.

[00:21:02]>> There's uh this equity token split that people have concerns about and we've seen this play out time and time again.

[00:21:10]>> This helps mitigate that. But essentially JIP38 it's um all the fees from JTX that flow to the DAO it's suggesting that we buy and burn JTO you know it'll buy and burn JTO for one year if approved. People want to see these types of mechanisms happen with assets and the assets that are doing this >> uh more recently are doing pretty well.

[00:21:35]I'm pretty excited about it and we'll see if it passes. Well, if it does, I think to your point is uh those are some of the benefits that really start to make things move a little more aggressively in the market, especially around the token, which would be uh unique to see. Uh we're also try uh kind of tracking what's happening at the DTCC. I wanted to kind of get your, you know, position on this cuz, uh, this has kind of been this a bit of a cringe token event that they've had over the last few weeks, um, with the DTCC. Any takeaways from this that you would be Have you been watching this? What what they're trying to do?

[00:22:13]>> No. Well, I've been following it a little bit. I think that um, it's moving slow. I'm curious, what's your take on it?

[00:22:19]>> Well, I think it is moving slow. we're still at we're not going to go to, you know, true 247. So that in my, you know, in essence is kind of a a dealer for me and I think for most people when there's going to be all sorts of other solutions out there that are already there and have those kind of features available.

[00:22:37]So that's my concern with it and I think that's the challenge that I think uh will continue to space. I get that traded [clears throat] into that, but eventually >> Tradfi is going to see the light and they're going to be looking at other solutions. I think in the long run uh you've got Salana getting ready to do some upgrades. This is one of the upgrades that we're watching right which is Alpenlow. When you look at that right now um how will this affect GTO? Is this a big a big deal or not a big deal?

[00:23:06]>> There's a few ways it affects I would say Salana in general. So one is very consistent slot times >> and um that will just result in better user experience. So if you can have really consistent slot times, the the notifications can notify faster, more confidently.

[00:23:25]>> The other really cool thing about Alpenlow is that it will finalize super fast. Finalization of blockchain basically just means that the state can never be rolled back. And so once you finalize, you can never roll back state.

[00:23:40]Today the finalization time on Salana is probably like 12 or 13 seconds. I want to say with Alpenlow it's under a second. You know if you can finalize in under a second then >> that changes a lot. It changes the way that you know if you want to pay with a credit card or make trades the settlement is essentially instant and that's going to be really big for trading payments in you know any other application that you can think of.

[00:24:10]Lucas, so at that kind of transaction speed that essentially would wipe out what Visa is doing. Those are the kind of transaction speeds that would be very competitive in in the retail especially in the retail payment space. So that would be huge.

[00:24:24]>> And yeah, the I mean the the finalization time with Alpenlow would be I think it's around a second. Hopefully I'm right here. I mean, you would know if your transaction went through and you know, on JTX, we're seeing confirmation times in 50 or 100 milliseconds.

[00:24:41]>> Wow.

[00:24:41]>> That does not change with Alpenlow. What changes is the the time it takes to say, "Okay, this transaction is never going to roll back."

[00:24:51]>> And yeah, today it's like 12 seconds.

[00:24:54]>> Um, with the Alpenlow, it's much faster.

[00:24:56]>> Interesting. And uh it's much it's uh I think they're going into audit soon for it, but uh it's my understanding it's much easier to reason about from the current consensus protocol in Salana.

[00:25:08]>> So with the current, you know, Salana inflation proposals versus GTO soul, would that reduce the demand for goto soul or less staking? What do you think would happen there? it might have an impact on that. But um I would say that there's other benefits of goto soul like being able to use it in DeFi and find opportunities for yield elsewhere that you can't get with stake soul or normal soul.

[00:25:38]>> You know, we're we're still pretty bullish on Jetto Soul.

[00:25:41]>> Well, and yeah, and just some of the strategies that you can use around that for DeFi. I know a lot of people watching our show that understands that.

[00:25:48]we probably should do a show for you guys out there to kind of talk about maybe just focus on Geto sole use case because there's a lot of things you can do with that token uh that starts to open it up out there. Uh so definitely >> something we should probably cover.

[00:26:03]Listen, I want to get into clarity because obviously in the we're in the middle of this week of clarity this and clarity that. What what do you guys think? Where where does this does this help you? Hurt you? You don't care?

[00:26:15]Where where do you guys stand? I think it'll help a lot. Uh, you know, the bill's names clarity provides clarity to businesses operating in the space. This is like the 30,000 foot view. There's just a lot of headaches when you want to work in this industry that you don't need to worry about with any other industry. There's a ton of foundations that are overseas, not in the US. And there's no like rule book to play by.

[00:26:42]there's a lot of like legal fees involved trying to interpret what is the way to do this properly, right?

[00:26:48]>> You know, I want to build in the US. I want to be here.

[00:26:51]>> Um, institutions want to be able to use crypto, trade it in the US. And so, I think it's really important to uh make sure this passes. It's not going to be perfect, but it's something. And yeah, I mean, we, my wife and I, discussed leaving the US a few years ago.

[00:27:09]>> Wow. And um we actually had uh someone leave the US for a span of like a year or two trying to uh do what they thought was right. And um it's just kind of silly. Why are we doing this? We just need clear rules on like what to do.

[00:27:23]>> Exactly. Yeah. And I think the innovation offshoring the problems that you have there along with what the future is with around and in within blockchain uh and also just the movement that we're seeing. I mean, you you could consider the Japan market has been absolutely on steroids. It feels like the amount of decisions they're making that are very pro- crypto. And then even Mika, even though they're heavy on regulation, at least they have something, you know, that almost 300 companies can actually go out and build with. So there is the biggest issue right now. What would be your percentage of this getting through? Are you confident or less confident?

[00:28:00]Well, I know that ethics was a big holdup and I saw some news yesterday and I think in today that they agreed >> compromise.

[00:28:10]>> Yeah, there's some compromise or agreement. Um, yeah, we will see.

[00:28:15]But, uh, I would say like probably 60% passing right now.

[00:28:20]>> Okay. All right. There you go. There there you go.

[00:28:23]>> It would be great if that passed. I think there the other cool thing is uh the SEC some securities tokenization exemption.

[00:28:31]>> Um hopefully we see that later this year too.

[00:28:35]>> But um you know if we can get clarity in that then there's no reason to be bearish like it's going to be huge.

[00:28:42]>> It'll be Yeah, we are locked in if that occurs. Listen Lucas, it has been great having you on. Thank you so much for coming in today. We appreciate it.

[00:28:49]>> Thanks for having me.

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