The Ferrari Luce Didn’t Stand a CHANCE! - The Carbage Time Podcast

Added: 2026-05-30

[00:00:00]Welcome to Carbage Time, the Autotopian's audio video podcast, whatever you want to call it. It involves us spewing out radioactive automotive takes. It's going to be Matt Hardigree and me pretty often. It'll be some other autotopians, probably Mercedes and Jason. What's up, Matt?

[00:00:16]How's it going? You excited about today?

[00:00:18]I'm excited. It's not always that the universe just delivers you something that's so obvious. And in the case of this Ferrari, it delivered us something uh luche hanging fruit as one might say.

[00:00:28]Just something that is just so they put it on the tea for us. And I am not above teing off.

[00:00:34]>> Hold on. This is not the first time.

[00:00:36]Actually, it is every day that the the universe presents us with just an underhand lop. Just last week it was the AMG whatever it was that hideous thing.

[00:00:46]Just before that, we had that what was it? The uh Jaguar. We're getting hideous EVs out the wazoo. So, we could just make a whole podcast based on hideous EVs.

[00:00:56]>> Yes. And it's here that I feel like they need to say, I'm not anti-EV. I love EVs. I think they're great. I want more affordable EVs. I think the most important the all of this time and money that's going into expensive EVs should be going into cheaper EVs.

[00:01:09]>> That's that's a that's a fair point. But that is not your point for today's episode of Carbage Time. Your main point for today's episode is you think that Ferrari was cooked from the jump on the luche. Is that your point?

[00:01:23]>> A thousand%. There is no way in in this current universe there's no way that Ferrari could have gotten the luch right. They got it wronger than I would have expected, but it there's no way they could have done it right.

[00:01:35]Absolutely impossible. I will prove that they could not have done this with logic. Um, I think there's a way that they could have done it right, but it's wacky. And I will prove that, too. Let's get into it. It's garbage time.

[00:01:52]Let's clarify. My take is that Ferrari could not have possibly gotten it right.

[00:01:57]That it is basically impossible for their first EV to have been good or to have been liked and accepted. It was just an impossible task in 2026. 2036.

[00:02:09]Maybe it's easy to do. 2026 impossible.

[00:02:12]They couldn't have done it. They did it worse than I would have imagined, but they couldn't have done a good job.

[00:02:16]That's my take.

[00:02:17]>> I think that's a terrible take, but I will listen to you, but I think it's a terrible take.

[00:02:21]>> Okay, I'm I'm open here. Here is my argument. Okay, first of all, this isn't a really prime part of the market. Mate Rematz, the guy who invented the EV hypercar essentially, he said that his expectation is that 10 of these will sell a year. 10 across every car maker who makes a high high high super high performance EV. So if the guy who's like the guy behind it says that, I'm going to believe him. Like for instance, how many Pin and Firina Batistas have you seen? How many Rimac ones have you seen?

[00:02:50]How many of these high super high dollar EVs have you ever seen in person outside of like Pebble Beach being shown off?

[00:02:57]>> Okay. So why would an EV not sell, but a gas version of the same car, a hyper car would sell? What's the difference?

[00:03:03]>> Because I think I I think that's what you buy. I think that what people want is they want the sound. They want the experience. They're not looking for the fastest car at this price point. They are looking for something that makes a statement. And if you want to make the EV statement, that's fine. There are people who want to do that. I think it's limited. I also would say this is in a weird spot because it's a it's a GT, right? It's not quite a hypercar. It's it's priced on the upper end of supercar, like on that kind of supercar.

[00:03:28]It's below a million. So, I would say more priced like a supercar. Um, where we also don't have a lot of successful EV supercars. So, I think that that's the argument stands. Uh, it it is more of a GT, but I mean, if we look, okay, its performance is not clearly that much better than like a TYON Turbo. A TYON Turbo is way less money. Um, you don't necessarily have to wait for it. And they also don't sell a lot of those. The same thing, Lucid Sapphire. Lucid Sapphire is on paper kind of in the same area and it's also a half to a third as much. And again, they also don't sell those. So like if like not to be like all talogical, it's like if you'd have invented Facebook, you'd have invented Facebook. If these things had sold, they would sell.

[00:04:10]>> Okay. So you you have two arguments here. The first is that people who buy hypercars want this sort of sensory input. That's shifting. That's noise.

[00:04:21]That's vibrations. That's just inputs.

[00:04:23]That that's like you you go on an amusement park ride and it's got to make noise and be shaky or it'll be boring.

[00:04:28]It's got to be exciting. Um that's your first argument. Your second argument, sir. The first argument is a a questionable one in that are you suggesting that EVs can't be stimulating a as stimulating as a gas car?

[00:04:43]I think that you're buying the theater of it. And this car neither looks nor is priced like the theater of it. Even a Ferrari GT, even a GTC4 Lusso, even an FF. Even like historical Ferrari GTs have a have the bit of theater to them.

[00:05:02]This has doesn't seem like it has a lot of theater to me. Um, >> but couldn't you bake theater into this?

[00:05:08]Like, forget this particular EV. Your argument is that they couldn't have done this. So, even if it looked good, couldn't they have, you know, had loudspeakers that, you know, make it sound like something? Couldn't they have made this theatrical?

[00:05:23]They could have. And look, here's the thing. Why would you get this when you could get a Hyundai Ionic 5N which does give you all that theater and also it doesn't have the Ferrari badge, but like it's not, you know, from a range perspective >> is your second argument and it's a strong one. Like the issue here is that you are basically trying to parse I the difference in performance between this and any other EV isn't big enough. That is a major problem, right? Like 0 to 60 and 2 and 1/2 is 0 to 60 and 2 and 1/2. And that is a huge issue, right? With EVs, you've basically democratized power and acceleration to the point where you can go buy a Kia that goes 0 to 60 in basically 3 seconds in the twos maybe.

[00:06:12]So that's a very good point. This car is not faster significantly than a regular Tesla or a Hyundai.

[00:06:21]That's a problem.

[00:06:22]>> Yeah. And so this is this is the problem is like and it's a Ferrari so it has to be exemplary. And here's the thing. I have not driven it. I bet it drives wonderful. I bet it feels wonderful.

[00:06:33]Like Ferrari knows how to do this. They are very very good at it. And I'm sure if you sat behind the wheel, you would go, "This is great." However, Ferraris have to be superlative. And there is very little about this car other than the price that is superlative. And I think the argument that people like again there is they couldn't have gotten this right is my main argument because the technology just does not exist to make it any faster than anything like like the democra it's democratized the expectations for it are enormously high and I do respect that they said instead of going for the obvious thing we're going to completely zag but that also gets into my other argument which is they've completely zagged and they've built something that you could put a Nissan badge on and other than the wheels completely completely passes for a Nissan. People keep putting Honda badges, Apple badges, different things on it, and it basically works every time. And so they decided, okay, the the the amount of expectation for this car is so high that we are going to do something very different, which I respect. We're going to get the LeBron James and the Michael Jordan of design.

[00:07:39]We're going to get Mark Newsome, Johnny, the guy who designed the iPhone. We're going to get them together and go give us something amazing and different. and they did it and pretty much everyone hates it and they failed. If you can't put together the like Olympic dream team and you lose to every game to Lithuania, then then the team was screwed from the beginning. Like like it was messed up from the jump. And I think that's the problem here. It was messed up from the jump. Okay, it's a fair argument, but look, this is garbage time. We're not here to just agree with one another. And okay, the the difference in performance between this pseudo Ferrari and a Kia is not enough. That's a fair point. I don't think Ferrari gave this their all. First off, there's the looks. And I mean, like you said, they they went for it and I appreciate that, but this doesn't look like a Ferrari. Didn't even give themsel a good starting point. They I look at the profile of it. It looks kind of upright and kind of tall and awkward.

[00:08:42]The the side profile, it looks almost like I mean, I'd say kind of like some kind of pole star. It doesn't look like a Ferrari. So, that's already kind of dirtying the water here, right? It would be one thing if this thing looked like a beautiful Ferrari and were an EV. Then, we could sort of sort of distinguish, you know, what people are having a problem with in all the noise. So, for one, there's styling. Let's ignore that for now because your point is that they couldn't have gotten this right even if it looked beautiful. I think from an engineering standpoint, they didn't do enough. Okay, this thing weighs $5,000.

[00:09:17]It's made out of aluminum. It costs over $600,000. The Porsche 918 would have If they had made a 918, we would all be happy, I bet. Right. Can you do you agree with that? If they made a basically a hybrid like a 918, they we would be happy with that.

[00:09:36]>> But but that just proves my point, doesn't it? That making it an EV does it. But yeah, if they if it was a 918, they've already built a 918.

[00:09:43]>> They built one and we loved it. We loved it.

[00:09:46]>> We agreed that a basic hybrid we're totally cool with.

[00:09:49]>> Now, a Bev an electric car. How do you make an electric car?

[00:09:56]How do you make the best electric sports car when you have weight to contend with? And the answer is right in my driveway. This should have been an E-Rev. If there's any argument for a range extended electric car, it's like this is the perfect use. It's trucks and it's supercars.

[00:10:20]This car does not need to have Do you know what the range is on this? It's probably it's it's under 300.

[00:10:28]>> It does not need to have 250 mi of Who is daily driving their Ferrari? 250 mi of range. It doesn't need that.

[00:10:36]>> What I don't get is they have put thousands of pounds worth of batteries in here for a commute that no one's doing in this Ferrari. This car should have 70 miles of electric range. No more. The battery should be maybe 35 kwatt hours. That's it. It shouldn't be any bigger and there should be a small honestly it would be very cool if they put a small like 1.5 liter V12 in the back. Just a little range extender that doesn't weigh a lot made of aluminum and then the body of this car should be carbon fiber. Why is my carbon fiber and this is aluminum? This thing weighs 5,000 lbs. If this were an E-Rev with a small battery and a little range extender and carbon fiber construction, this thing could weigh 3,000 lb probably. You know, maybe maybe 3500 lb. And then we'd be talking about a real supercar in terms of handling because then no one could complain. If if if they were to say, "Hey, look, we sent this thing around the Nurburg Ring and it freaking smoked everyone because it was lightweight and it put out power like an electric car."

[00:11:48]You know, if it were 3,000 lbs, it made 600 or 1,000 horsepower and it was an E-Re like this. No one would be complaining. You'd still hear a gas engine in the back coming on every now and then. It would look like a Ferrari.

[00:12:02]I think they could have, that's how I would have done it. I would have styled it like a Ferrari. I would have a small electric motor in it and it would basically be an electric car with a little range extender in the back. Make it a little tiny suitcase size V12. I know I'm kind of cheating here because I'm suggesting a car that isn't a full EV, but that counts. It's fulfilling the same function that this car is fulfilling.

[00:12:27]An E-Rev. I will grant you that an E-Rev is more like an electric car than it is like a hybrid or gaspowered car. I will grant you that. I love the idea of a small V12. That is excellent. They should just build that car no matter what. Anyways, I'm for I'm for that.

[00:12:42]However, I I would say a couple of things. One, so you're saying something like your BMW i3, but maybe it looks like an exotic supercar. It'll be a hit.

[00:12:53]Except BMW tried that with the i8 and it completely failed and people do not like that car. Um, >> fair point. So, I think we've already tested that theory, >> but that car was not it wasn't it didn't handle well enough and it wasn't quick enough. It wasn't a performance e enough, >> right?

[00:13:10]>> I agree. I agree. But I I just think limited appeal. However, it's a great used car buy. Uh I highly recommend I I it's an interesting person who buys an i8 as the like fourth or fifth owner, I will say. Uh based on my experience uh up here in New York, but it's uh it's a great purchase. Okay. Yeah. Even then, even if they'd have done that, I think the the amount of expectation would have been really high. And also, like, let's go to our favorite guy right here, Sergio, >> the go >> Sergio basically said a few years ago, one of the best CEOs of all time, automotive CEOs, RIP. He said if it was I would have honestly dressed like him today. I was tempted to do it, but it's too hot. Um, he said that it basically it has to have the sound of a V12. Like a Ferrari has to have I mean it could be a V8, but it has to sound a GT. It's got to have a V12. It's got to have that sound. And any car that didn't have that sound wouldn't wouldn't cut it. What is a 1 point what does a 1.5 L V12 sound like? Uh, probably very pitchy. Um, but I don't know. Maybe it sounds awesome.

[00:14:18]Maybe that sounds awesome. Again, I want this to get built because I want to hear it. Um, and then I think from a design perspective, just to be mean, um, uh, the, uh, the other recent CEO of Ferrari, uh, Luca D. Montesalo, hold on.

[00:14:32]My boy Luca D over here, other recent Ferrari CEO, they asked him about this car, and he's basically like, "Oh, I don't want to talk about I don't want to get into trouble." But he said, "Uh, congrats on them for designing a car that even the Chinese wouldn't try to steal." That's that's horrible.

[00:14:50]Let's take this debate to a a sort of a different area here. Okay. You say they couldn't have gotten this right if they tried. I say, "What if it were a lighter weight carbon fiber e-rev that was really good at handling?" You mentioned the i8. Yes, it wasn't that appealing.

[00:15:04]I'm with you on that. I get it. But what if we changed the expectations for this car? Mike, obviously, we both agreed the issue here is that the expectations were really high. This is a Ferrari.

[00:15:21]Could we Could Ferrari have changed the expectations for their new electric car in terms of like what it's supposed to be? Not every Ferrari has been a very fast track focused car, right? They've had wagons. They've had >> they had shooting they've had shooting brakes, but those were fast. They had the >> Mont.

[00:15:40]>> They had the Dino. They had the SUV, which I think is great, by the way.

[00:15:43]>> Right.

[00:15:43]>> Huge fan of Kurosangu. I am I think that's a great Ferrari. I think that's an example of they built a GT car basically. It's basically a GT. It looks more like a wagon than than anything. It looks more like a wagon than this thing.

[00:15:56]And people were fine with it. I mean, some people did, but people were generally fine with it. It is possible to do a gas powered version of this. It is not possible for Ferrari to do an electric version of this. And actually, I think it's almost impossible for any mainstream automaker because what's the thing that we were talking about the week before this? What car were we talking about?

[00:16:17]remind me >> the AMG GT four-door which was a lighterw weight electric GT way more perform like like they got the car closer minus the e-ref part to what you are describing >> but it looks terrible that's the issue but it it looks terrible and it didn't work the expectations for these cars even from lower-end automakers are so high that it just scramles people's brains and they cannot accept it and and so to try to get it to either they try to make it look like a Chinese car, which in both of these situations I think they did um and have missed. Um or they try to they they go nuts with it.

[00:16:55]And actually, I will say this, we don't have this problem with Hyundai, right?

[00:16:59]Nobody was mad at the Ionic 5. Nobody was mad at any of those cars because the expectation is so low. And also Porsche, people had mixed feelings about the TYON. It's not been a huge seller.

[00:17:10]People seem to be okay with the TYON.

[00:17:12]It's not crazy. It's expensive. It's not crazy expensive.

[00:17:16]And it's very performanceoriented. They, to your point, they gave up on range initially. They've gotten better about it. Um, and there are different versions of it. Obviously, you can get longer range versions of it, but they're like, they understand what the compromise is.

[00:17:28]And actually, Porsche, by by knowingly keeping to what their stick was, but like making some compromises, I think did it right. But Porsche can get away with stuff that Ferrari can't. It's always been that way. Ferrari can get away with stuff that Porsche can't. It It goes both directions. If it was a BYD, people would love it.

[00:17:46]>> You're okay. The TYON's interesting because I I would say that Porsche pulled it off with a TYON. They're obviously the residual values are terrible, etc. But no one looks at a TYON and says, "Oh my gosh, that's not a real Porsche." No one does. It looks like a Porsche and it's really quick and technologically at the time it was at the peak. I mean Tesla Model S performance and the TYON were going neck andneck with one another. Yeah.

[00:18:11]>> And they were similarly priced. So that was important, right? It's like ultimately you cannot expect the consumer to stop asking this question.

[00:18:21]What am I getting for my money? And in the case of this Ferrari, you're asking what am I getting? Uh 0 to 60 time. I'm not getting that. Uh looks okay. Not getting it. Range. Not getting it. What exactly am I getting here? what am I getting? And that is a question that will always be asked by every consumer. Status is something as well. I just think that you Ferrari needed to do a better job at providing whatever that answer is, what you're what are you getting? And if it were a lighter weight EV, because there are not very many lightweight sport sports EVs out there right now. If this car weighed 2,800 pounds and made a 1000 horsepower and had a range of 70 miles, it would be awesome. It would be it would be kind of cool. And if it looked like a Ferrari, I think it would be kind of cool. Okay, but here's the final trap that Ferrari is in and why I think this is impossible. And you're leading me right to it.

[00:19:23]The difference between Ferrari and Porsche is that Porsche will essentially make as many cars as it can sell.

[00:19:29]Ferrari by its nature of exclusivity by the nature of you if you want to buy a Tessterosa you got to buy an Amalfi first and then after you buy an Amalfi you got to buy a P song and then you got to wait three years that is they sell they sell luxury and they sell scarcity and you can't sell scarcity if you sell a lot of things right it just doesn't work right it's it's contradictory >> so they could only make so many if they made a lightweight Miata size super fast great car one that's an Alpha that's trial for Mayo exists in the portfolio.

[00:20:00]It would be great. Like this is the thing. You look at the Xiai SU7, right?

[00:20:03]They make a car that is dramatically less expensive that performs roughly the same and it doesn't have that kind of cache, but in China it has a different kind of cache is being put forward thinking like our equivalent of Apple in some ways. And so they will sell as many of those as they can sell. They need to sell as many of the as they can sell.

[00:20:20]Ferrari had to make it very expensive because Ferrari can't make right now Ferrari can't make more electric cars than it makes gasoline powered cars which means that it is stuck in the scarcity trap and in the scarcity trap you have to make a very very expensive thing and here honestly the what I wanted to do uh for this carbage time is this the Ferrari luch is just my excuse to make this argument no electric car in our current paradigm is worth more than $250,000 it's a you can charge more for one, it's not worth it because the performance envelope, the difference between what you get and what it sounds like and everything is just too too small. And this is the problem for every Rolls-Royce whatever. Every single company that made this is why Lamborghini cancelled their electric car delayed. This is why so many people delay this. You cannot justify more than 250,000 for a car. Ferrari could not charge less than 250,000 because it's got to make these things which is their trap. they are trapped and they made it very expensive by bringing in Joan IVive and Newsome and doing all of this stuff to it and the further away they got from that $250,000 price point the more ridiculous it seemed and but they had to do it to justify the exclusivity and the small number production of it. So again, Ferrari could not have made this work because no one can make this work over $250,000. No one has ever made it work above $250,000 for for for large scale production.

[00:21:42]>> Okay. So I generally think that this concept of EV performance is so democratized that you really selling an expensive EV is very difficult because a less expensive EV gets you 90% of the performance.

[00:22:00]I kind of get that. Of course, there's been a gap, a huge gap in prices forever of similar car. Like for example, the Lamborghini Urus and then a Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk, right? They one costs what, three times the other?

[00:22:16]>> It's closer than you think. It's like two and a half. It's like two two and a half.

[00:22:19]>> So, okay. So, the question is, is the gap bigger there than it is that you can make between EVs? like can you is the is the gap between any two EVs always going to be narrower and that's why you don't think you can charge more than 250 grand. Is that your point? I don't want to say always because of technology and and everything else, but over a certain point, you're playing for all this stuff to get done to it. And there's only so much right now. The the the inherent inefficiency of a gasoline vehicle relative to the inherent efficiency of an electric vehicle works against higher prices because when you buy a Pagani Hirra, you're buying something. You're buying the art of it.

[00:23:01]You're buying all of the work that goes into it. you're buying, but you're buying a a an AMG motor that has been, you know, tuned to oblivion that sounds insane that you feel as it drives by and you're you're not paying for it. You're not paying for the sound.

[00:23:19]>> You're paying to let people know that you paid the money to have somebody work very hard to make that sound. And if you just put a speaker on the south side of it, it's so it's it's harder for electric EV to justify it because you can do so many things to a gas powered car to make it less and less efficient >> because also like once once you get below 3 seconds 0 to 60 doesn't matter one for what point and also you just get sicker like as you approach 2 seconds like this is the problem with the TYON turbo with me is I love the car if I go full launch mode I get sick like it's just it's just it's diminishing returns and the work that it takes to get there is just is it seems to me I know it's a lot of engineering work it seems to me to be a lot easier because we're able to achieve it with Hyundai's so okay okay so it's harder to build a gasoline car supar that is leagues better than everything else it requires more tuning there's more moving parts it is more of an art a piece of art a complex difficult piece of art it's not surprising izing that something that's difficult to do and complicated is going to command more.

[00:24:28]>> I buy that. I also have a question for you. We just talked about performance.

[00:24:33]Um, and I think that makes sense what you're saying about a Kia and a and this car are probably very similar in terms of performance, but what factor do you think the infotainment of modern cars is playing in sort of balancing out the value of you get into this car and you see screens, right? You get into a Kia, you see screens. Everyone wants CarPlay.

[00:24:57]Back in the day, you'd have beautiful like crystal gauges and it was very different than a Kia with its white hideous plastic gauges, right? Has the screenification of modern cars played into this sort of sort of balance that we're talking about?

[00:25:14]>> I think it's it's destroyed the balance because Chinese automakers have better screens. Chinese automakers have better software generally speaking. Um, you know, you could argue I I like the loose software is okay. Riv software is pretty good. Like, you know, there are versions of it, but traditional automakers are the worst at this and non-traditional automakers or newer Chinese automakers are way way way way better at this. This is why most of us still use CarPlay or Android Auto when we get in a car because it is just a much better, cleaner experience. And so you have the situation where way cheaper cars have way better inter you know screens and interactivity and better softwaredeed defined vehicle paradigms than more expensive cars and there's not a lot to do to make a more expensive car feel better. I will say I do like the interior of this car and they have added buttons and knobs and switches for everything. I think on the inside of this car, the theater with the toggle switches is correct. Uh ju IV is great at this. That's that's right. I think when you look in the inside of the car, you're going, "Okay, I kind of get what I'm paying for here." Um and and this stuff does the bezels, everything.

[00:26:27]It looks It looks really really good.

[00:26:29]So, that is that is worth it. You're the interior shows where you're paying lots of money to get something that had lots of work put into it in a way that does not feel mass manufactured.

[00:26:39]And when you buy a Pagani, it's not mass manufactured. You're paying for the non.

[00:26:43]And also the this is why the interior thing, the screen thing is so important.

[00:26:47]When you buy a Pagani or or a Koenigseg or whatever, you can see all this stuff.

[00:26:53]You can open the you can open the trunk lid and you can go, I see this. This looks great. This looks expensive. This whatever. What are you going to see on an electric car? You're going to see the motor. You're going to see the battery pack. You ain't see nothing.

[00:27:08]>> It's a fair point. But but but if this were an e-re and you had a tiny V12 1.5 L in the back, I'm telling you that is the solution here. If this thing were if this thing weighed 2,800 lb, had a tiny V12 in the back and had 75 mi of EV range, and it were carbon fiber and lightweight, we would no one would complain. It would be awesome.

[00:27:31]>> Okay, to wrap this up, will you grant me that I am correct that Ferrari could not have possibly done this correct? Like they couldn't have gotten it right. Will you grant me that much? And I will grant you that if they can make a tiny V12 and make it an ER, that would also be pretty cool. As a Bev, I think they're pretty much toast. That honestly, not just Ferrari. I think any automaker, high-end automaker trying to make an electric car, it's over. The democratization of EV technology at acceleration and charging speed means a Kia EV6 is going to basically go headto-head with you.

[00:28:07]It's over for now. It's over. And so, as a Bev Ferrari was cooked.

[00:28:14]>> All right. Can I get an app? Can I get an applause on that, >> Griffin, our producer? You did.

[00:28:18]>> Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it.

[00:28:22]Uh I 1.5 L V12. Let's make it happen.

[00:28:25]Let's convince them. Also, actually, one sorry, one final thing. You know, given all the coverage that many sites, including us, gave them, you know, who is actually looks like the smartest person here, which which which high-end automaker looks like they're maybe the best situated for this universe that we live in.

[00:28:44]>> Uh, is it Lexus?

[00:28:47]>> Nope.

[00:28:48]>> Porsche.

[00:28:49]>> Somebody we made fun of a lot last year for their EV concept.

[00:28:53]>> Oh, no way. You think it's Jaguar? I think it's Jag. And here's why I think Jag looks really smart. Their car Jag is trying to go higherend. They're not charging $640,000.

[00:29:06]And now they're if their price with the AMG GT four-door, like if you look at that Jack, which I think you take away the pink, take away the art basil of it all kind of looks good. We saw it in person at at Motors and I was like, actually, it looks pretty good. compared to this stuff. It looks fantastic and if it's >> per I think Jags in a better shop $1500 to $200,000 and you look at all the rest of the stuff out there and you kind of want an EV and you live in London and whatever, you're going, you know what, that Jag doesn't look so bad now. Third of the price, maybe not quite the same performance, but close enough. I I you know, if they can make that Jag $150,000, I think it might be a success.

[00:29:46]Crazy. That's another garbage time. But >> if anything, this is just proof that Jag wasn't crazy. Jag was just trying to deal with an impossible problem. And maybe depending on the pricing.

[00:29:56]>> Does the world owe Jag an apology?

[00:29:58]That's for carbage time. Maybe some other time.

[00:30:01]>> Some other time. I think when we see the production car, if it's priced below $150,000, we maybe owe them an apology.

[00:30:07]Future episode.

[00:30:08]>> Mhm.

[00:30:10]This has been the very first episode of Carbage Time, where we present you with radioactive automotive takes. Who do you think won this one? uh general thoughts, comments. If you'd like to leave some vitriolic, horrible comments, uh we're not going to stop you from doing that.

[00:30:27]Thank you for listening.