The resurrection case collapsed, so he pivoted to the Kalam - Went even worse.

Ajouté : 2026-05-31

[00:00:00]Why should we think that these things are are true? Like are you familiar with the idea that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence? That's something you've heard before, right?

[00:00:09]>> The Bible is uh historical.

[00:00:12]>> Yeah. Yeah. So you've heard you've heard this before that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Is that something you've heard?

[00:00:19]>> Uh yeah. Yeah.

[00:00:21]>> You agree that these claims are extraordinary, right? that there was a um a first century trainee carpenter in Palestine who created actually the entire universe. That's quite an extraordinary claim. Um >> we have historians that are right about these things, >> right? Right.

[00:00:39]>> So hang on be come with me on the journey. Okay. So you agree with me that this is an extraordinary claim. Do you think that the evidence we have for this meets the level of being called extraordinary such that it warrants such a a wild claim? I mean, I guess you do or you wouldn't be a Christian.

[00:00:58]>> Yeah, we have we have many reasons.

[00:01:01]>> But do you think it's extraordinary?

[00:01:02]Because I think the level of evidence we have compared to >> it is extraordinary. We have so many things, >> right? So, I think the the level of evidence we have for a claim of this magnitude is woe is what is woeful.

[00:01:14]Well, let's look at what we have. We've got a word of mouth story passed around a pre-scientific, highly superstitious community for three or four decades before anyone wrote anyone anything down. No one who saw any of this wrote any of this down. The people who wrote this down had heard it from other people who maybe had heard it from other people in a in a in a in an environment where >> people wrote this down >> where where we don't know because the gospel authors are anonymous. So, we have no idea who they were. Right.

[00:01:42]>> The gospel >> Yeah. Yeah. The gospel >> the other his what about the other historians that are not Christians?

[00:01:48]>> So you mean like who do you mean like like Josephus or Tacitus?

[00:01:53]>> So they they weren't eyewitnesses to the resurrection. They were eyewitnesses to the presence of Christians.

[00:01:59]>> But no nobody's nobody's denying that the Christians existed. That's that's not contested. The the claim is that a man rose from the dead. Now first of all even if he did >> confirms the crucifixion.

[00:02:12]>> No. No. Well, we're not doubting the crucifixion. We're not doubting the crucifixion and the and the passages in Josephus about Christ doing miracles are largely considered to be a 4th century interpolation, aren't they? You would know this. So, so we don't these are not these are not extraordinary evidence of this person.

[00:02:32]>> Oh, yeah. I think it's likely that he was. Yeah. But these are these fall socified they they fall so short of the standard of extraordinary evidence for such a huge claim. Let me let me give you something to weigh this up against.

[00:02:45]Do you know about Satia Sai Baba?

[00:02:48]>> Satiar Sai Baba? What?

[00:02:51]>> Yeah. Do you know who Satia Sai Baba was?

[00:02:54]>> Uh tell me.

[00:02:56]>> So he was an Indian god man. He claimed to be a god. He claimed to be like a god man and he did miracles and healings and all sorts of things. He had a million followers and they documented his his miracles on video, right? He was he only died a few years ago.

[00:03:13]>> Now that you are rejecting most of ancient history >> now hang on a second. Don't don't swerve off somewhere else. We're having a conversation about Satama. I'm showing you I'm show I'm showing you that I know I know you do, but I'm about to show you they're not. So the level of evidence that we have for this Indian god man is orders of magnitude higher. The people who saw listen stop talking. I'm talking right now. Listen the people the people who saw him do this stuff are numerous and they are eyewitnesses and they have given their testimonies and said what they saw and there's video evidence of him doing stuff and we know that the claims made about him happened because he did he you know he was there. they were being documented. Now, do I agree that he actually was a god man? No, I don't agree. I think he was a trickster and we know that he was a trickster. But there's still massively more evidence for his claims than there were for any claims about Jesus. We're talking about millions >> claims. What did he claim?

[00:04:16]>> He claimed to do miracles and healings and all sorts of >> What kind of miracles and healings?

[00:04:20]>> I can't even remember. But, you know, healing the sick and and sort of things that appeared to be, you know, you or I might call them magic tricks, but you know, miracles that his that his followers who >> about a million of his followers, >> he had about Well, you want their name?

[00:04:35]You want their names and addresses? I don't know.

[00:04:38]>> You're telling me that a man claimed to heal the sick and we have evidence for all these things. Can you >> I'm I'm I'm His name was Satya Sai Bababa. Look him up. Now, I don't I don't believe that he did do he did do those things, but the point The the point I'm making about him is that the the level of evidence for his claims is much much much higher than the level of evidence that we have for claims about, you know, a dude in the Middle East 2,000 years ago that people spoke about for decades before writing anything down. It's a totally different thing. Now, you reject his claims as do I. I'm just asking you to be consistent and realize that the level of evidence for Jesus is far less than the level of evidence for Satya Sai Baba, right? Are you off are you off looking him up?

[00:05:28]>> But you're going to find that the evidence is the the evidence is going to be poor, right? Which is why you and I don't believe it. But it's still a lot more than the evidence for your Jesus.

[00:05:41]So the point is that the evidence is poor, which is why we don't believe it.

[00:05:44]But it's still a lot more of it than there is for Jesus. Orders of magnitude.

[00:05:48]>> Baba has evidence for being God that is higher and evidence for Jesus.

[00:05:57]Okay.

[00:05:58]>> Okay. You can look this up on your own time. We don't all need to witness you reading articles on the internet. Do you understand the point I'm making or or is it lost on you?

[00:06:06]>> Sai Baba was known for materializing objects.

[00:06:09]>> Yeah. As I said, Ma Ma Ma Matthew, no one is interested in in sharing your internet research with you. I'm sure you'll have a lovely time reading about it. The point I'm the point I'm making here says that >> point I'm making is that there's a lot more evidence for evidence, higher than Jesus's. That's the point you're making.

[00:06:28]>> It's a lot more it's a lot more numerous and it's a lot better attested because the people who claim to >> resurrection of Jesus is not a miracle.

[00:06:35]It's a historical event. I it's a magical claim in a bedtime story.

[00:06:40]>> It's a magical claim in a bedtime story that you are calling it a historical event but you can't the testimony of devoted followers >> a little bit like Jesus except in the case of Sai Baba we can actually speak to his devoted followers whereas in the case of Jesus there's no eyewitness testimony >> for their beliefs >> that doesn't matter we've already established that facing death for your beliefs doesn't make them true. Lots of people face death for their beliefs.

[00:07:07]Doesn't make them true. The Heavensgate cult all face death for their beliefs.

[00:07:10]Doesn't make them true either.

[00:07:14]>> It's a it's a signature of cults across time that people are willing to face death for their erroneous beliefs.

[00:07:19]Christianity is just another one.

[00:07:23]>> So you said you still don't believe the evidence for Sai Baba even though you think it's higher. That's like it it shows that your your skepticism isn't about the quantity of evidence, it's about the quality.

[00:07:35]>> It's about both. So So it's about both.

[00:07:37]It's for me it's about the nature of evidence. So I look at Sai Baba as being the same as I look at like Benny Hinn or one of these other huers who trick people into thinking that they're they're channeling Jesus while they take their money uh and fly around in private jets.

[00:07:51]>> Okay. explain why his followers didn't die for their claims and why his resurrections weren't witnessed by skeptics >> because Sai Baba's followers weren't required to die dead. Why did he die and stay dead?

[00:08:04]>> You you seem to be saying that that everyone >> Why did he die and stay dead?

[00:08:07]>> If you ask me a question, I'm going to answer it using my mouth and words.

[00:08:11]That's the That's the bit when you then are quiet for a few moment.

[00:08:14]>> Why do you die?

[00:08:16]>> Matthew, if you want to have a conversation, we'll have one. If you're going to act like a 5-year-old, I'll move on. I've got four other people in the call queue. I'm happy to speak to them. If you No, no, no. If you can't get your together and have a conversation like an adult, tell me you can't handle it and I'll move on.

[00:08:31]Otherwise, behave yourself. Which is it going to be?

[00:08:34]>> I'm sorry.

[00:08:35]>> Good stuff. Right now, >> he is still dead though. Correct.

[00:08:38]>> Yes. He didn't make any claims to resurrection because many many many false uh religions didn't. And >> he's still dead.

[00:08:46]>> Yes, he didn't make any claims to resurrection as I said.

[00:08:49]>> So, he's still dead.

[00:08:50]>> Yes. What? That doesn't establish any point. I don't know why you think that's a flex. Not not every false belief has to entail uh resurrection. There are lots of false beliefs that don't. Many, right? I mean, Muhammad is not claimed to have resurrected, but there are billion Muslims who believe in Muhammad.

[00:09:09]>> I can prove a God at all. Like, I can prove a God in general.

[00:09:12]>> Is that a Is that a massive pivot away from what we were talking about?

[00:09:16]>> I can prove God. God is not fiction. I can prove a God right now. Go for it.

[00:09:21]>> Okay. So, um yeah, the universe uh began and it has a cause because everything that begins to exist has a cause.

[00:09:28]>> You can't demonstrate that that's true.

[00:09:30]>> I can't I have uh formulas and uh I have a evidence.

[00:09:35]>> Virtual virtual particles begin to exist and they don't necessarily have a cause.

[00:09:40]>> Uh that is literally not true. That is from a quantum vacuum. They don't pop into existence from nothing.

[00:09:47]>> Well, we don't know.

[00:09:48]We do know >> we don't know what their that what their cause is. And their cause and their cause their cause is statistical and probabilistic rather than a particular >> I thought you already said that you're not a physicist. Like what are you talking about?

[00:09:59]>> But neither are you.

[00:10:00]>> So why are you saying we >> I'm saying we as in collective knowledge. You have the formulas. Delightful. Okay. So so carry on making your calam your Timu colam argument. Go for it.

[00:10:13]>> Teimu calam argument.

[00:10:14]>> Yeah. We're all we're all here for it.

[00:10:16]Go for it. So everything that exists has a cause. Yeah. Therefore, the cause is Jesus.

[00:10:21]>> Make that make sense. Go for it.

[00:10:24]>> So, okay. So, we're just going to grant that even if the universe does have a cause, how does that uh become like Jesus or God?

[00:10:31]>> I beg pardon?

[00:10:32]>> Are you saying that even if we grant that the universe began means it has a cause?

[00:10:37]>> I mean, I'm not granting. How does that mean the cause is God?

[00:10:40]>> You're a million miles away from where you're trying to get to. Cuz I'm not granting that the universe had a cause or a beginning. I'm not granting that at all. So where does your argument go now?

[00:10:51]>> So what I'm telling you is uh we know it begin.

[00:10:55]>> I'm going to tell you.

[00:10:56]>> Who's we?

[00:10:58]>> Yeah. We would just be these formulas that I have.

[00:11:01]>> Your formulas are we? Are they? Okay.

[00:11:03]>> Generality.

[00:11:05]>> Lovely. So your formulas know that the universe began even though >> law of thermodynamics.

[00:11:09]>> Oh, they love throwing that one in there, don't they? Even when they don't know what it is.

[00:11:12]So, so they love they love this. So, um we is now the formulas you have. The formulas you have know that the universe had a beginning even though the plur plurality at the moment of cosmologists don't necessarily hold to that to that view. Um is this going well for you right now?

[00:11:30]>> The universe is isolated system. Yes or no?

[00:11:32]>> We don't know.

[00:11:34]>> Uh does it exchange energy or matter with an external physical environment?

[00:11:38]Yes or no?

[00:11:38]>> We don't know.

[00:11:39]>> We know that it doesn't.

[00:11:40]>> Do we? that go claim your Nobel says no verbatim. He said no it does not.

[00:11:48]>> Dr. Blitz also disagrees with most of the nonsense you're spewing right now.

[00:11:51]So I wouldn't be quoting him too hard right now if I were you. Does Dr. Does Dr. Blitz agree with you about your extrapolations from from your formulas proving Jesus?

[00:12:01]>> The only I talked to So the only way that uh >> No, no, answer my question. No, no, no, no. Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on.

[00:12:06]You you need to behave a little bit. So you've quoted Dr. Blitz here. Now, he's not here right now, but does he agree with you that your formulas imply that Jesus created the universe?

[00:12:16]>> Uh, my formulas imply that the second law applies to the universe.

[00:12:22]>> What's What's the question I just asked you?

[00:12:25]>> So, yeah, these formulas are >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. What's the question I just asked you?

[00:12:30]>> Well, it wouldn't be uh making any sense to ask that cuz that's not what it is.

[00:12:35]>> What's the question I just asked you?

[00:12:38]You ask me does uh Dr. Blitz agree with any of my formulas that Jesus exists.

[00:12:45]>> Right. Please answer it. Does he?

[00:12:46]>> My formulas are for uh >> that would be a yes or a no applying to the universe.

[00:12:51]>> That would be a yes or a no. He he agrees with you or he doesn't.

[00:12:55]>> He agrees with the formulas. Yes.

[00:12:57]>> Does he agree with you that your scientific ideas imply that God created the universe?

[00:13:05]He would agree that these formulas conclude that they apply to the universe.

[00:13:12]>> You're dodging, dude. I'm going to give you one last try and if you can't give me a straight answer, we are done. This is not the dodgy dodging show. This is the answering questions like a grown-up show does Dr. Blitz who who who you quoted who you mentioned as being the authority that you want to speak about as to whether the universe is a closed system or not. So given that you're entrusting your scientific understanding to him. Oh dear. Oh dear.

[00:13:39]>> For the second law.

[00:13:40]>> Oh dear.

[00:13:42]>> Well, on this particular occasion, I don't think I can really disagree with the inner circle. He was quite insufferable, wasn't he? He was quite insufferable. Um, he's got formulas, therefore Jesus invented the universe.

[00:13:57]Don't you love that? Is it really cute?

[00:14:00]I think it's really cute. I've got formulas. Therefore, Jesus invented the universe. I would imagine that Dr. Blitz tore him a new one. I mean, I wasn't there. I don't know. But I've I've heard Blitz um argue with people who who trot this nonsense out. And he's he is not kind to to to them. Uh so I imagine I'm just speculating here that Matthew didn't have a good time with Blitz. Um, I'd love to speak to Blitz about it, but uh, yeah, maybe I'll get a chance at some point to ask