Lo scrittore cattolico Eugenio Corti

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[00:00:05]The great Christian writers, [music] their lives and their writings.

[00:00:18]Good evening everyone.

[00:00:21]Fabio, look, we've lost Fabio it seems.

[00:00:27]And tonight we wanted to talk tonight, this afternoon, well, we wanted to talk to you about Eugenio Corti, an author who is very little known in Italy, but if you take De Rot's encyclopedia and go in April to look up who the greatest author of the 9th is, they will teach you Eugenio Corti. So it's the usual inconsistency we find here in our Italian cultural panorama due to the fact that Eugenio Cti is an unwelcome background, let's say, to those who have a bit of control of the reins of culture in Italy, that is, he is a Catholic author and we know that unfortunately, especially on the literary level, but not only, we have seen it recently also with music, for example, at the Fenice, where it was necessary to decide whether the new conductor of the Fenice orchestra could be a certain person because of his orientation which is not left-wing was excluded. Here, Eugenio Corti received the same treatment, in short, a sort of damnation of memories, for which, I repeat, he is known throughout the world as the most important Italian author of the 20th century, in Italy almost nobody knows him.

[00:01:55][guttural sound] [sighs] A similar fate to that of Guareschi, if you like, but Genio Corti was perhaps even more penalized. His texts have been translated into practically all the languages of the world, as have those of Guareschi, but in Italy we don't know who he is. [guttural sound] His most important work is entitled The Red Horse. It's a pretty hefty tome, eh, [snort] but we won't talk about it specifically today. Today, Fabio and I wanted to introduce you to the author and his thoughts, as well as his bibliography. In the next episodes, we hope to be able to touch on some of his works because they are rather important works. He is an author from Brianza, therefore Lombard.

[00:02:51]He lived until recently, he died at over 90, if I'm not mistaken, his wife is still alive and he did take part in the Second World War. He was in Russia following the Italian army in Russia. He went as a volunteer because he was very, um, interested in communism, not because he liked the idea, but because he wanted to delve deeper into the roots of this ideology. And to go and see the practical application of communism, he decides to join the ARMIR as a volunteer and go to Russia basically to fight and see what applied communism is really like. Here, eh, in two memorable works, the most one the most do not return. Here, maybe Fabio is coming. There he is. Hi Fabio.

[00:04:00]Here, I solved the connection problems, Michele, I know you went ahead, now it seems like the connection is perfect. Very good, good, good. I made a little eh hat, I just finish of eh this concept. Here, he wrote this text called Most Don't Return, which is basically a diary of what happens during the retreat of the previous days and well, actually it also retraces a bit of the arrival part, but the most intense part is that of the retreat of the Italian army corps from Russia. So, both in this text and in The Red Horse, Eugenio Corti has the opportunity to describe some aspects of communism that had never been described by anyone before and he manages to touch on some really tough topics, in short. So much so that to read the red horse you need to have a certain mettle, in short. This is why at times we end up talking about cannibalism in the concentration camps and in the concentration camps in the Bulags, excuse me, etc. etc. So the reality of Russia and the Soviet Union below is described with a certain crudeness, in short. I'll leave the floor to you, Fabio. Ninth. Well, I just wanted to point out that I had the grace of meeting Eugenio Corti twice, and once even at the table, after he was awarded the International Prize for Catholic Culture in Bassano del Grappa in 2000. And I found myself at the table with Eugenio Corti on my right and Vittorio Messori in front of me, along with other diners. So it was a very interesting experience that I then met again during another conference because he spoke often and spread his thoughts, his works, you know, and even on that occasion, eh, I was always struck by his nobility, right?

[00:06:25]the nobility of the character, of his bearing, this penetrating, deep, sharp gaze of his, but also his kind courtesy, well, in offering his reflections. That is, his moral rectitude is truly an incredible example, which also reminded me of another meeting I had previously with engineer Pietro Molla, the husband of the saintly Gianna Beretta. I also had the grace of knowing him there, of being able to know him and I must tell the truth, they both had this incredible stature that made you feel at ease at the same time, eh because they were also humble, very humble people, but at the same time noble, right? And that is, those people I have never seen again, the kind of people I can honestly say are from another time, I have never seen again.

[00:07:30]It's a great nostalgia for these characters so noble with even morals. Well, I wanted to say this because I had, I don't know if you too managed to approach a, you had the adventure of meeting Eugenio Corti. Michele, I do n't know.

[00:07:49]No, unfortunately. Unfortunately not. Ninth.

[00:07:52]Well, I was truly blessed in the good sense of the word.

[00:07:56]Well, that's what I wanted to say. I missed your beginning, but I heard you talking about Most Don't Return, which was his first work. Yes, yes. Made known, so you have already given the dates of birth and death as well. Here, I made a little preamble a little about this, how shall I say, peculiarity of the fact that he is the greatest Italian author of the 9th century, also recognized by De Roma's encyclopedia, who in Italy is not known, in short. Here, so we were talking a bit about this thing, but eh we haven't even touched on the biographical aspects yet, so if you want, no, but let's just give an overview, I would say very not very detailed because you can find a bit of everything. I'd like to talk more, well, even a little bit through biographical notes, about his works, his philosophy, well, about all these things here. However, it must be said at the very least that we are before a great writer, a writer who not only presents reality as he saw it, as he encountered it, as he experienced it, but who has also managed to analyze these realities and see their deepest causes. This is why I return to the discussion with you of the great evils propagated by both Nazi and Communist ideologies that he knew and witnessed in these books.

[00:09:28]So, precisely, you mentioned more than once that it talks about the retreat from Russia in which, let us remember, I think 4,000 people out of 30,000 soldiers survived. So Eugenio Corti himself was also wounded, he was hospitalized, wounded and then, behold, after having been through all these things, he actually began to write them. Here there is also a deed of entrustment that he made to the Madonna, right? And that is, he wanted to keep alive the memory, the promise to the Madonna that he made on Christmas night 1942, [snorting] that is, to become the writer of the kingdom of God if he came out alive from the Russian retreat. So, all his work, if you like, is a work of profound Catholic reflection, where the Madonna is present, but also the figures of angels, as we will see perhaps next time when we analyze The Red Horse, his long-seller, I call it more than a bestseller, right? in the sense that it has long been sold and has also been translated into many other languages ​​over time. I had the opportunity, here, it's a large volume, I have it here in front of me, 1300 pages, here, published by Ares and [snort] drawn precisely from the experiences he lived and especially during the Russian retreat which was truly shocking.

[00:11:09]Here, but let's say two more facts, after which I'll give the floor to you and Michele again, right? So, he was born on January 21, 1921 and died on February 4, 2014, so it's been about 12 years since he passed away. Eh, in Besana in Brianza. He was a proud Brianteo, let's say, that's it. And in 1940, let's fast forward a little, he enrolled in the law faculty at the Catholic University of the Sacred Heart in Milan.

[00:11:49]This date is important, not only because it was there that he later met the woman who would become his wife, but also because he met other people who were inspiring for his work.

[00:12:04]Well, anyway, in 1941, just after enrolling in the faculty, which ended after the Second World War, he was called to arms and became a second lieutenant in the artillery and he chose precisely him, having been among the first, well, the first to be able to choose which front to go to, Russian scepter. This is important, isn't it? because he wanted to get to know the communist world better.

[00:12:38]In fact, there in Russia he witnessed precisely what he called the gigantic attempt to build a new world without God. There, and therefore already from a Catholic, because they also called him the Little Paul, right? in this typical Abrianza meaning where devout people are called by this slightly derogatory term, but Paolotto to indicate very devout people came from a Catholic family and among other things his paternal grandmother was also related to Pivo. Here, here, not a small note and he was the first of 10 children, so also large families open to life. Well, in this scenario, I believe and always consider the narrative contribution of Eugenio Cuti. But I'd ask you, you're also the director of a homeschool now, right? How come? And I know it's a pretty obvious question, but it's also fair for our listeners. Why do you think Eugenio Corti isn't as well-known as he deserves? Perhaps he is better known in some other countries, not in Italy, and he is not even present in literary and historical texts, because he also narrated, in addition to literature, fundamental historical pages. Here's Michele, so I'll leave this answer to you now.

[00:14:16]Yes. So, look, it's one of the first things we said earlier. There, you see? Eh, I got lost because unfortunately I lost the connection. Go.

[00:14:25]Yes, yes, but don't worry because that's one of the biggest questions, right? When you find ourselves faced with characters of this caliber who are left out, it's obvious that there is a monopoly on culture in Italy which, well, we've already described before and [snort] so we already understand where this is going. Well, it must be said that, as far as its presence in textbooks is concerned, which is absolutely nil, there is a unique case, let's say the province of Monza, that is, the city of Monza and Brianza in general, have created a school textbook, a reading book, based entirely on just one of the characters of the red horse, so much so that just one character was enough to create an entire reading book, so imagine what could be included of his works in school textbooks.

[00:15:26]The other reason why he is excluded is precisely the vow that the Madonna made to be a, so to speak, a Catholic writer who would tell the story and events from the point of view of Catholicism, something that cannot be accepted by those who somewhat control culture in Italy. Um, in The Red Horse this thing is interesting because he gives a reading not only of the retreat from Russia, as he does in The Most Never Return, but from a reading of the entire cross-section of Italy that goes from the first before the war just before the Second World War up to around the 70s.

[00:16:09]Mid 70s. Mid 70s, right?

[00:16:12]Yes. And it's very, very interesting to see the reading he makes of it, because a lot of interesting things emerge even at the level of a metahistorical reading of what is happening, of how, well, if I may Michele, I am there, as some critics have observed, right? two pole stars that allow us to orient ourselves and understand Eugenio Corti's thought, right? Someone said that they are the search for truth and beauty.

[00:16:52]Look, we just talked about the search for truth, right? So historical truth, but also supernatural truth indicated, right? in this profound reflection on the Madonna, the angels, this vow of entrustment given to the Madonna, to the Lord, so that with their grace he could fulfill what he increasingly felt to be his vocation as a Christian and as a writer. But this search for beauty that I've noticed now, perhaps give me your reflection too, which began with Homer and the Iliad in particular, right? which he has always appreciated from the very beginning. They had been, if you like, his epic referents because the red horse is a little bit epic, even if it is autobiographical, it is historical, but it also has this healthy epic nature and because it is very beautiful like Homer and the Iliad. So, can this search for real historical truth and also for beauty be, or do we need to add something else? In your opinion, to better understand it, are they sufficient if you develop these two pole stars a little? Well, these two guiding stars are certainly there, because he doesn't limit himself to giving a Christian and Catholic reading of the reality he experienced, but he goes back and rereads ancient pages of history, starting, for example, from Cato the Ancient. He wrote an entire work just on Cato to talk about the mentality of ancient Rome and Greco-Roman antiquity, because he talks precisely about the moment in which Greek and Roman culture come into contact and how one influences the other. According to him, it is also taking up Cato's thought: it is Greek culture that was grafted onto Roman culture and ruined it. Well, if the Greeks had been in their place it would have been better. Well, as it then takes up the story of the conquest of America by the Spanish, it takes up some moments of the Middle Ages, so here are also events from the late 18th century, early 19th century, so there is this search for truth and metahistorical reading throughout the course [clears throat] of human history. As for its beauty, it is clearly evident that it is one of its flagships. Well, this is for sure.

[00:19:35]Exactly, exactly, exactly.

[00:19:36]And his being from Brianza is certainly another fixed point, another cornerstone of his eh, of his thinking, of his way of writing, because it is truly typical, it fits perfectly into his reality. There is another aspect, in my opinion, fundamental, which is that of the social doctrine of the Church. Well, you can see it especially in the red horse. He talks about, let's say, the old industries and the old factory owners who were there between the beginning of the Second World War - let's say, between the period before the Second World War and the period after, when the factory owners were still fathers, basically they were people who cared about the fate of their workers, etc. etc. It therefore addresses the social question from a point of view that is absolutely in solidarity with the social doctrine of the Church. Let's say that it even touches on Chesterton's distributism in a certain sense, maybe he doesn't mention it, maybe he didn't even know it, but it comes very very close to distributism, in short, as a practical application of the social doctrine of the Church in society.

[00:20:52]So, here, all these aspects in my opinion are fundamental to understanding here too there are no limits there is also in my opinion a great ability to see inside things and, so to speak, to know how to know how to predict future developments. Well, this too is one of his characteristics because in a work he entitled The Smoke of the Temple, taking up a quote from Paul VI, well, written in the 60s, more or less between the 60s and the 70s, he says things that have only come true now, in short. Here, so yes, yes, in fact Paul VI wrote it in 1972, right? He took it up again, in fact, in this book, The Smoke in the Temple, taking up these reflections also on the Second Vatican Council, but he also wrote something about the Christian Democracy, because it also dealt with political issues, if you like, its battles against divorce, remember, the red horse is closed, he was an active player, he had glimpsed with Foresight what this battle against divorce would bring, what it would do to secularization in our society and he hit the nail on the head, I would say, completely, right?

[00:22:20][snorting] Well, what you were saying is interesting, because the red horse, but we'll talk about the red horse in detail next time, but it 's also right to make some references, it's the best known, most famous work by Eugenio Corti at the beginning.

[00:22:37]Here, there is this very beginning of plowing, right? Very beautiful in its Brianza lands, isn't it? It begins precisely with this ploughing in the fields, precisely to show, as you were saying before, then, and that industrialization which would then lose any reference to the nature of man and therefore also to the magisterium and social doctrine of the Church.

[00:23:04]Let's remember that his father was an industrialist, a textile industrialist, you know, a Catholic obviously who provided work for many families, so rightly, as you said, almost like a father, right? and not as the master of this understood in this sense. And Eugenio Corti himself worked within this company of his for, I think, almost twenty years, but then he discovered his strong calling, and he abandoned it, abandoning what his parents, his father Mario in particular, had wanted him to become an accountant. No, but precisely for the accounting of the textile company and also described the crisis of the sector in very beautiful, heartfelt pages, not in the red horse and so eh this thing here is also important. [snorting] in France, let's say, it enjoyed particular prominence thanks above all to a person Fran V who was born in Italy in Florence, but however lived and was a professor of Italian studies at the Sorbonne in Paris, right? that he was one of the most passionate scholars of Eugenio Corti's work is also thanks to him and another committee that was formed in Italy, especially in Brianza, as you mentioned before, Monza, in those areas, but also the Lombardy Region of the time in 2011 even proposed him for the Nobel Prize. Well, perhaps few people know this thing and it's interesting what he had to say in this way, further connoting what was his nobility and his humility at the same time, isn't it? And he said I would be more satisfied with being able to talk about it in schools than with receiving the Nobel Prize. This thing is beautiful here, here. And in fact he spoke about it because he was invited to join the Alpine troops, well, the Alpine corps in particular. I remember that here in the Verona area, particularly in Torri del Benacco, anyone who wants to come, as soon as they enter the town there is a bronze statue made by the local Alpine troops in honor of Eugenio Corti where you can see Luis with an Alpine hat reading, more like a boy. It's beautiful, I don't know if you've seen it Michele.

[00:25:51]No, here on Lake Gardza ​​Torri. Here, so when you come to visit me, even our friends, if they pass by the corner, go and see this beautiful statue where he reads and thus passes on to future generations what was his mandate as a writer.

[00:26:08]Law just never comes back. Well, this thing is also interesting here.

[00:26:14]Well, we have to say that we have already reached the 37th edition of The Red Horse, so with more than 1 million readers translated, well, in French we said thanks above all to François V, but also in Portuguese, Spanish, English, German, Lithuanian, in other languages, I do n't remember them all now, even in Japanese, one of the latest, well, here are also some of the other works that you mentioned. It is interesting, in my opinion, to now also talk about his second work from 1951, I poveri Cristi, which was later expanded with the title Gli ultimi soldati del re.

[00:27:08]And so the poor Garzanti Christians still like the first edition of Most Don't Return from 1947 1951 and then Ares in 1994 republished it expanding it with the title The Last Soldiers of the Italian Repo of Liberation in this case from Nazism after the armistice of September 8, 1943 with the Allied forces. And so here too another story of condemnation, first of all of which comes back to communism and here of the other disastrous ideology of the 20th century, Nazism, right?

[00:27:49]and in the same 1951, this is a biographical note I would say is necessary, because I also met his wife together with my wife, we went to visit her after the death of Eugenio Corti, here, in 2014.

[00:28:07]Vanda died 10 years later, in 2024.

[00:28:11]We actually went, but passing by there, going to visit him in the cemetery, seeing a bit of the places of the red horse, said, let's stop by, let's try and go there with my wife, let's play. And, well, he received us without any problems. I remember very well, he and his housekeeper offered us a coffee. We were there talking about her husband, she was brilliant too.

[00:28:36]Then, in the same year 1951 in Assisi Corti married Vanda of the counts of Marciano.

[00:28:47]She was also a literature teacher who had met, as I said before, at the Catholic University of Milan in 1947.

[00:28:55]Their wedding was celebrated by Don Carlo Gnocchi. Beatified, right? this in 2009 and who was also a military chaplain of the Alpine troops and then in 1951 the Corti Engineers began working in his father's textile industry which then experienced this whole crisis which he documented in the pages of the red horse.

[00:29:27]I'd pass by, I'd even jump ahead a little and then I'll immediately give the floor to you too. In the early 60s, I don't know if you've already said this, maybe in those initial 5 minutes that I missed, thanks to his personal experience, so much so that some people even called him, a little ironically, let's say, the special envoy for the campaigns in Russia, right?

[00:29:57]Eugenio Corti wrote The Trial and Death of Stalin, who however experienced some hardships that he will also write about in The Red Horse itself, right? he did not enjoy the success he deserved. Here, and here the question arises spontaneously. There was also an attempt by Diego Fabbri, who was the playwright and screenwriter of films, especially known for his 1955 opera Processo a Gesù, which he brought to the stage in Rome. But beyond those 13 performances that were held, Eugenio Corti himself complained that the tragedy he had written had become a dramatic reading, that is, something substantially different. It seemed to me a little, Michele, the same fortune that happened with the films of Guareschi, Giovannino Guareschi, no? the same.

[00:30:59]And in your opinion, are there any similarities between the two? I think so. Here, the ball is already on.

[00:31:09]You're welcome, you're welcome.

[00:31:09]One of the things I was saying at the beginning, yes, yes, that both of them have suffered the same, let's say, damnation or memories, right?

[00:31:16]And in a way. Yes, yes. perhaps Corti even more, even more showy, even more heavy, because while however, let's say Guareschi, thanks to his being so popular, popular in the non-popular sense of popularity achieved, but how much of his style, in short, very accessible to everyone, he managed to, how can I say, pierce the meshes of, let's say, this censorship, right? and so however little, at least some parts of his work have been noticed. Then he had a newspaper behind him, so in short Eugenio Corti absolutely absolute silence, but in the most vulgar way, if you like, even a little heavy-handed. Here, also because in this work that you cited, The Trial and Death of Stalin, which is a masterpiece, eh, it makes a reading that undermines the whole of communism, because it actually demonstrates how Stalin, as Guareski also said, is not as Krusov said, it is Stalin who is evil and applied communism badly and therefore caused the deaths, he provoked the massacres, etc. etc. Eugenio Corti, as also, I repeat, Guareschi, pointed out very well in this work here, analyzing Stalin's psychology and how he had simply drawn the consequences from the premises of communism and therefore completely undermined any, let's say, sugarcoated reading of communism. It absolutely could not be shown in Italian bookstores or theaters. It was unthinkable.

[00:33:00]Yes, yes, indeed, indeed what happened testifies to this. Well, among other things, this book that was published by Massimo in '62 was then republished with other texts on communism in 1976 again by Ares, right?

[00:33:18]You were talking about this character before, well, I think you were referring to Manno, maybe I think I interpret it like this, no, of the red horse. Because there have been two very good adaptations for middle schools, because obviously, proposing such a substantial book for kids, also so impactful, as you said before, citing those true facts of cannibalism and many other distressing things, for kids it was appropriate to make, let's say, intelligent adaptations of it. They were done, right? Well, for example, Mursia actually made Manno's story, you know, in 1986. Here we obviously also provide the extensive bibliography so that anyone who wants to go and read it, you know, can still find it and even the kids of 21 which was his class, no, of birth, this one from Mondadori later. Well, but another thing that unites, I believe, Corti Guareschi was the relationship with the Christian Democracy, right? Yes, because he wrote a short history of Christian Democracy with particular attention to its errors.

[00:34:39]So, already there [laughter] very Guareschian. Very Guareschian, exactly. Guareschian, right?

[00:34:46]And then you also mentioned these books because in addition to being a great narrator, no, eh Catholic, he also sought new forms of writing. It recalled the pictorial stories you mentioned, did n't it? The land of the Indian, right? on the forms of the Jesuit ridusiones at the end of the 18th century, for example, this too very interesting, all of these published by Aes from 1998 onwards, then the island of Paradise, the mutiny on the Bounty, here, from which films and other books were also made and its crew. Here too we are towards the end of the 18th century and as you said before, Cato the Ancient is dedicated precisely to Marcus Porcius, Cato, a Roman general, right? And finally, as you said before, he wrote in Medioevo e altri racconti (The Middle Ages and Other Stories), also published by Ares in 2008. However, there are also important posthumous works that deserve to be remembered, right? which is worth remembering, such as "I will return", which is based on a sentence he wrote to his parents from Russia, right? Which is very beautiful here because he wrote: "I leave serene, happy, even what comes from the hands of God always gives joy. And remember," he wrote to his parents, "that I will return." So this faith and this being completely entangled in the hands of divine providence, right?

[00:36:34]Understand that he was a writer who had made a vow to the Madonna and to God and that this would have to be fulfilled, right?

[00:36:45]incredible, he wrote it to his parents, but they have collected other works taken from the diaries, they are still being published today initio, well, he really wrote a lot and in a way that was never banal, never superficial. Here, if you agree, Michele, and it ranges not only from stories of historical experience, but also political. You rightly said, also citing industrialization with regard to the social doctrine of the Church, but it ranges to social and political issues such as the battle against divorce, but it also ranges to love, for example, to love as he contemplated it. Well, in the red horse there are also figures of human love that maybe we will talk about next time, otherwise they really need to be explored in depth because they are never banal and represent something, that part of the soul, if you like, in a romantic way, which concerns love.

[00:38:02]For example, "I want your love." It is another posthumous work which is obviously dedicated to Vanda, his wife, and which collects the letters he wrote from 1947 to 1951 to his wife Vanda. And then we remember again and then I'll let you speak too, Michele, each one, even here the title is indicative, each one is urged on by his providence.

[00:38:31]war and peace diaries 1940-1949 published by Ares in 2021. Here, do you want to add regarding? I don't know, even these human feelings that surface.

[00:38:46]No, no, but of course, that's definitely there, just like what you were saying, right? even the topics covered are so broad that I invite readers, in short, to start reading, that is, our listeners, in short, Eugenio Corti, because there really is something for all tastes, there is something for the enthusiast of the Great War, where I will be able to find truly unforgettable pages, among other things [snorting] very very consistent with what the other authors who have returned have written, who knows, Mario Rigoni Stern or others who have been through it. It even happened to me a couple of years ago that I went to visit a 105-year-old gentleman, a survivor of the Russian campaign, and then when he returned he had the opportunity to actually deal with Corti during the retreat, and then when they returned they got angry, they wrote to each other. That is, he said everything he wrote is exactly what happened.

[00:39:48]We find some pages identical.

[00:39:51]in Mario Rigoni external, but the beautiful thing is his always very theological reflection that he makes, it is always this trust, this continuous relationship with God that makes an impression. Well, there are those who also want to understand how another other thread, right? Anyone who wants to understand the development of our society, by reading The Red Horse or The Smoke in the Temple, or other texts, will truly find a gold mine from that point of view. it even reaches the point of touching the first cases of drug addiction in the 70s in Italy, for how it got there, for the damage it did.

[00:40:33]In short, there is truly a systematic reading of a truly important piece of history that he experienced firsthand. And then as regards the amorous aspect that you mentioned before, there is a very deep reading from a person who not only has experience, because he has lived, has had, has been in a relationship for a long time, but also with a great intuition of the male and female psychological aspects. Ah, an incredible ability. One particular episode comes to mind that he wrote, young man by the way, because most people don't come back, it's a book he was among the first to write, it's the second he wrote, eh, where he talks about him and a friend having to get to, how shall I say, connect with the army that is moving up Italy. He passes through Abruzzo, he stops in a family where he is hosted and in this family there is a girl and he is obviously young too, he likes girls and however he remembers having seen a girl seen a girl and having spoken to her eh a couple of years before. Well, and when the girl who is there at a certain point makes herself available, well, the daughter of this family who is hosting her and he says to her, "Look, I can't because I saw this girl 2 years ago and I am, how shall I say, tied in thought to this girl". what the [ __ ] are you thinking.

[00:42:20]And she replies, "Look, I didn't have any, how shall I say, particular intentions, it's just that I felt sorry for you. I thought, this boy needs a... Yes, yes, yes, of course. A female figure and this is truly a very feminine trait, that of saying even just for the need I see in you, I would be willing to put myself on the line. That's how even this chivalrous fidelity is a typically masculine trait of a healthy male, in short.

[00:42:55]So there are truly beautiful, edifying readings also among other things of beautiful, healthy loves. Here.

[00:43:02]Yes, there are also in the red horse, precisely, here, I was looking a little at the aforementioned Manno and Colomba, right? This idealized love, but also the more earthly one between Ambrogio Fanny, are among the characters in the red horse that are a little autobiographical, there, that concern the vicissitudes of the writer Eugenio Corti, but also the celestial one between Michele and Alma, right? Because even in human love the goal is always Heaven, that is, always this higher supernatural reference. Well, in his testimony of faith, well, going back a little, we said that there is indeed a particular dedication to the Madonna with dedications, with the daily recitation of the Rosary, right? And also the relationship with the guardian angel that perhaps we'll try to develop next time, right?

[00:44:05]But even in his novels the characters are cloistered nuns, there are priests, there are military chaplains, in short, there is this dimension of faith that doesn't only concern the private aspect, as you said before. And here is the meaning, if you like, to bring it back to the social doctrine of the Church, but also the public one. So he becomes an extremely important, universal author, because even speaking about what he experienced, he doesn't just show us characters, let's say, who may or may not have been successful, but real people. This is because we're dealing with real people, rather than invented characters, placed there, somehow, right?

[00:44:55]And this too, I believe he goes Beyond this realism, this literary verism, go further, because its dimension is precisely linked to a dimension of supernatural faith.

[00:45:09]And this, again, I would ask you, this thirst for beauty that shines through in all his work, right? And it is also linked to femininity, that is, the search for human love through the love between a man and a woman, the very idea of ​​beauty is sublimated, I would almost say touching the heights of Dante's times, if you will. Here, in these prefigurations, here too, it is a beauty that respects the person who respects the woman and at the same time wants to fully enhance her femininity. Here too, I believe it is an extremely important thing that Eugenio Conte himself should place and read. I don't know if you wanted to add anything else on this aspect. Yes, yes, yes. Look, I am—I am—I totally agree with what you say. It really deals with—look, it is a reflection, in my opinion, that we must never stop To do. Um, there are, that is, contemporary society almost places Christianity, Catholicism in particular, in a position of almost antagonistic to the role of women.

[00:46:45]Well, we should remember instead that it was precisely Catholicism that legitimized and valorized women and their role within history, because no other religion existed before, no other cultural context asked women to have the value and the possibility of expressing themselves as Catholicism did, in short.

[00:47:11]Well, and from this point of view he is extremely Catholic, he describes women in their best aspect, that is, as true women and not bad matches for men. From this point of view he is extremely chivalrous, because what our society does is say that a woman is truly a woman when she is a bad match for a man. Well, instead, a woman shows her worst side when she is a bad match for a man. She is beautiful when she is when she is a woman. Here, he describes wonderful women, but they are absolutely not idealized, They are real women, this is the show.

[00:47:50]They are women, eh, of the 50s, of the 60s, therefore still women who are before those claims, let's say, revolutionary, because let 's call them by their name, eh, of equalization, here, so they still present themselves with their authenticity.

[00:48:08]And they are wonderful. Even Stalin's daughter herself, comes to mind in the trial and death of Stalin in this work.

[00:48:18]There is this girl who was killed by her father basically, her mother, her brothers, her husband himself, whatever is around and still retains this filial dedication and who judges her father, but without accusing him, here, always with charity, almost with filial charity, eh, things unthinkable today. Here the, the daughters in particular are the most ruthless of fathers, usually today these days they are really the scourge of [laughter] Here, let's remember Michele who unfortunately could n't have children, right?

[00:49:02]Eh yes, eh the courts however welcomed many young people into their home there to Besana, right? In Brianza, in fact, they were very happy to open the door and talk to the young people. So, so much experience also for these people who went there and were able to enjoy, face to face, let's say, contact with Eugenio Corti and his wife, right? So they really sought dialogue with young people. That is, we are faced with the structure of a writer who, in his profound humanity, welcomes without any pretense—you know, with pride in being a great writer— but with great profound humanity and humility, he welcomes these young people to be able to establish a dialogue with them and point out the dangers in society.

[00:50:01]Remember that he, Eugenio Corti, wasn't so afraid to point out the dangers even in some Catholic writers, for example, through Emanuel Mugier or even Jacqu Marit himself, whom he glimpsed and accused, you know, with this Christian personalism, of the collapse of very strong principles and values, right? So, he also spent us in this sense to show young people his presence that could help them truly discern the things they were going to experience. Well, not just politically. Here, I also remember my friendship with Father Cornelio Fabbro, this important scholar of St. Thomas Aquinas, but also of existentialism.

[00:50:56]Maybe we could also do an episode on Father Cornellio, he deserves it, right, this great Catholic writer, a Thomist, who was a friend of Eugenio Cordi and so on.

[00:51:11]And another important thing, here, to remember, S. You're welcome, you're welcome. If you want to say something, otherwise, what about this aspect of the relationship with young people, right? Well, as a great educator, he did extraordinary things to be able to bring some realities of faith into a context that 's more accessible to young people, but also some, how shall I say, pedagogical indications, let's say that? He, realizing that the book, fundamentally, in the television society—because he saw the explosion of television, right?—started off a losing streak with young people, basically invented this style, precisely, of the novel in images, he calls them, writing in such a way that You really have the impression of having a scene in front of you, there. And he took individual themes and developed them into these, as they say, texts that lend themselves very well to being made, for example, into television series and only the fact that there is a prejudice has prevented it from being made because they are already ready, they are perfect, I mean, there is really bad faith there. Well, there, one of these that I think is very important for young people is Paradise Island, the one that talks about the mutiny on the Bounty and basically deals with it in a fictional context, but a historical novel, precisely, rendered in this very flashy way so as to therefore strike precisely at the intelligence of young people and the theme of freedom, a very important theme for young people and especially for the young people of his time, because he lived through '68 and therefore saw the carnage that was there. Through this book he showed the dangers of freedom and the costs that freedom has and therefore he would truly be an author to rediscover also to help young people understand certain things that perhaps explained in a more A bit pedantic, a bit boring, they don't get through, so they would get through. Well, it would also be extraordinary if some television network, some person who has access to these channels put these works together, because they are, in my opinion, extraordinarily effective.

[00:53:48]There, of course. I remember Cato, the ancient, for example, who really could also be reproduced theatrically because he was conceived with scenes, no, described, there, very, very stimulating. Yes, yes, I agree. There, another thing that is important, how he saw Divine Providence in his life, right? We have seen his special relationship with the Madonna, with our Lord Jesus Christ, but he maintained that his works would be useful when the right time came, best established by divine providence. So he wasn't in this rush for success, right? He wrote it precisely for this personal mandate, but it was absolutely not tinged by this search for an audience or absolutes, but rather he was thirsty to restore the beauty of historical truth, even Supernatural, right? And so, for him, divine providence governed—and these are his words, I read them— the days of man with mysterious wisdom.

[00:55:10]That's why, to grasp them, to try to understand their meaning, even in everyday reality, it was necessary to study, study as he did.

[00:55:24]And it's incredible, Michele, even from the latest unpublished works I've read through the Eugenio Corti Study Center, which are very, very detailed, all these events, how he prepared for every conference, every meeting, he took nothing for granted.

[00:55:43]Here too, it's interesting to see, that is, his attitude, how it wasn't so meticulous because, well, he wanted to be a little arrogant, absolutely not, but it had to be precise, correct, realistic, profound at the same time, and I believe this also gives us a sense of the character of Eugenio Corti, so to speak, as well as of the human person, whom we more or less know through his works. Well, I've also had the grace to speak about him like this, albeit briefly, with him a couple of times and also with his wife. So Studying was important to understand where we were, where you are, man, right?

[00:56:35]With this profound reference to Genesis, right? Where are you, man? And he pressed young people in this way because he wanted to help them understand, for example, what '68 had meant in the 60s, what industrialization had meant, what, you know, the advent of the media in the life of families, the very destiny of families and so on. And so in this sense he was, I would say, far-sighted, right?

[00:57:07]Yes, yes. It's not that I really want to unless you want to add something else, but in my opinion there is. You're welcome. There is. Yes.

[00:57:16]No. Yes. In my opinion there is an indication that is important to give to readers, to future readers, in short, those who we hope will become readers of Eugenio, the aspect that you have emphasized several times, that is, his relationship with beauty and his ability to grasp it very well, to also be able to transmit it very well, he has, as it were, a counter-effect that is always very good, but you have to know it, that is, that of Seeing its absence, thus managing to describe horror in a very crude way.

[00:57:52]That is, he describes the bad things with an effectiveness, with a precision, with a crudeness that is tough. So, know that you are not dealing with someone who sugarcoats reality; rather, someone who takes you by the hand, leads you, uh, into some dark place, to make you see the horror that exists, always starting from the assumption that providence is above and to place it precisely in contrast with beauty. This is, in my opinion, a fundamental aspect and is quite peculiar to Eugenio Corti. Now, I also wanted to ask you a question in closing.

[00:58:36]Fabio, what, what book would you suggest to begin an approach to Corti?

[00:58:44]But now it depends on the reader, obviously if they are young people, there are already these books on Manno's story, there, that we have indicated, no, specifically as a reduction of the red horse.

[00:59:03]It depends on the reader, on their age and also on their education, because For example, if he were a politician, I would suggest The Smoke of the Temple. Absolutely.

[00:59:12]I would suggest, well, even the brief history of Christian Democracy, even if it's not just a politician, anyone who wants to understand contemporary times can read The Smoke in Time.

[00:59:22]Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Or if someone is so interested in all the historical events, most of them never return, and even The King's Last Soldiers, which concern the events of the army corps in Russia on the one hand, and the liberation corps against Nazism on the other, and so these are events, but I would say that we really should tackle The Red Horse. Oh yes, now I won't say it all in one breath because it's almost 1,300 pages, so it takes a bit of time, but once you start, I believe, and you overcome the first hurdle, no, you read it all the way through, as happened to me. I read it and then I went back to reread the notes to be able to read it again.

[01:00:10]So definitely, but a bit of all his works. For example, I always did a radio show for Radio Buon Consiglio.

[01:00:16]podcast on Cato the Ancient. Now that's also a very interesting book because it shows you the agricultural life of Marco Porcio Cattone, right? Of this life not because one thinks of a general always at the front, always fighting, instead he was a farmer, he was born as a farmer [clears throat] and so on. I mean, there are some, I'd say a bit of all of them, even if we want, Michele, biographies can help and there are some precious biographies edited first by Paola Scaglione, no, who followed Eugenio Corti for about twenty years and wrote two biographies, I giorni di uno scrittore and parole scolpite, i giorni and l'opera del giorno but also the most recent one from 2 years ago, also published by Ares, edited by Elena Rondena, right? [snorts] Eugenio Corti, precisely, truth and beauty. These biographies are also very well done, then the posthumous works, even the one concerning the dramatic story of the trial and death of Stalle, in short I would suggest a bit of all his works. by Eugenio Corte. I think we've run out of time, right? The exposition time.

[01:01:36]Yes.

[01:01:37]And next time I'd suggest we delve into the red horse itself, right? Let's take a closer look at this great work of his, this long-seller of his, so I bid you farewell, Michele, thank you. We also bid farewell to the listeners of Radio Buon Consiglio, and see you for the next episode on Eugenio Corti's red horse.

[01:02:04]Good evening.

[01:02:06]Good evening.

[01:02:10][music] You've listened to the great Christian writers, their lives and their writings.

[01:02:20]He. [music]