NEW CHRISTIAN Has Nothing But VIBES?? | Forrest Valkai & Promise

Added: 2026-05-15

[00:00:00]So, let's see.

[00:00:01]>> Last call is Trevor.

[00:00:03]>> You're on with Promising Forest. How you doing today?

[00:00:07]>> Really good. How are you guys?

[00:00:10]>> I'm all right.

[00:00:10]>> Can you hear me? I'm >> all right.

[00:00:13]>> Yes.

[00:00:15]>> Okay. Sorry.

[00:00:18]>> There's a little bit of a delay. Also, if you have us playing, then that might mess you up, too.

[00:00:25]>> Okay. I know my my audio was a little funny. I just unplugged my phone. Tell me if it's workable.

[00:00:33]>> Yeah, I I can totally hear you.

[00:00:39]>> Um, well, you guys aren't going to believe me, but I kind of agree with like all the callers today.

[00:00:45]>> Can you can you tell us um what you what it says you're a theist, so which god do you believe in?

[00:00:54]Uh, I guess the Christian God, but like it's a bit I'm a bit um looser with like counting out these other prophetic traditions.

[00:01:08]>> But in general, would you say you believe like the all powerful, all knowing, allloving God?

[00:01:14]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:01:16]>> Okay. Abrahamic God or >> Sure. What's your reason for believing that this God exists?

[00:01:24]I forgot about that call. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I don't mean to interrupt you. I just forgot about that. I forgot our first call or second call or whatever it was the night was that [ __ ] the Nazi guy. And people in the chat are now pointing out like I agree with all the calls. Even the Nazi.

[00:01:38]>> Even the Nazi. Yes. It's really wild.

[00:01:41]>> We're We're going to hope you don't agree with that one.

[00:01:43]>> We'll circle back to all of that, but I just want to at least get where you're at.

[00:01:47]>> Please now please continue. I just couldn't let that go for that call >> and the two conflicting Christians as well.

[00:01:57]>> Well, I thought I would just I thought I would just stir you up a little bit, but yeah, I I do agree with those two conflicting people.

[00:02:05]>> Great people, but please tell us >> Yeah. Why is your reasoning for thinking that this god exists? Like why are you convinced that a god exists?

[00:02:17]Well, I mean, I guess maybe an easy way to to point at it would be kind of connecting with that last caller. So, >> I'd rather you just honestly answer my question.

[00:02:30]>> I would like to hear your argument, not more of Tim's.

[00:02:34]>> Well, so I just want to add in what I think was kind of missing from that conversation. So, you were talking about >> Are you not able to Trevor? We don't I I want to forget that last call ever happened.

[00:02:45]I want to talk to you. I really just want to talk to you. So, are you able to answer our questions? Because it doesn't feel like you're being honest if you want to just reference like past callers because we do this so often that we hear these same kind of calls and the only way I'm able to like actually give you an honest chance at this is for me to wipe this slate clean and just talk to you.

[00:03:07]>> Sure. I I I guess I would say that I think there's like a universal kind of understanding of good and bad that comes with emotion and that logic and emotion are so closely tied because it's kind of like you're doing the calculus of what you should feel as events go on around you. So, you're doing the logical calculus, but then you wind up feeling something and I I I guess I kind of keep coming back to that.

[00:03:48]It's um the there's like a feelingness of like you know, Forest knows there's like an egalitarian nature to animals which is kind of strange.

[00:04:01]>> Not always.

[00:04:02]>> Hold on. I still I'm really confused.

[00:04:03]Also, as Forest, please correct me if I'm wrong, cuz you'll know this better than I do, but from what I like, just as me, the homeschooler weirdo trying to catch up on life. Um, neuroscience shows that actually like kind of the opposite is happening. Like we're we're having feelings and stuff before we're able to like logically assess a situation. Like our body is responding to stuff. Then maybe we start having an emotion that we could name with, you know, the language that we have. And then we're, you know, thinking through and making choices that have basically already been decided for us based off our our body responses. So, >> yeah, that I that's not my area of expertise, but that sounds about right.

[00:04:42]I'm there's probably something there that I'm missing, but like that sounds about right.

[00:04:47]Well, I feel like you're agreeing with me, Promise, that like if we were if we kind of looked at the the main information that we're exchanging in interactions as emotion instead of all the words we're saying, then you I I feel like you would kind of agree with me that you could be driven into what seem like unreasonable or illogical positions that are emotionally true and kind of needed or they're like grounded I don't know what you mean by emotionally true cuz I I think I think something is either in accordance with reality or it's not. So I don't know what you mean by emotionally true.

[00:05:26]>> Sure, I could say that like this this thing makes me sad and maybe that thing didn't actually happen. I just thought it did. But then it's still not true.

[00:05:34]Like I I I'm not following what your point is and how it connects to the existence of a god.

[00:05:43]So, I feel like you're saying there's some uncertainty in in the interpretation of events, like should this be uh really sad for me or something else? Can I not feel about this? Can I can I somehow make this feel good eventually?

[00:06:02]>> Do are you saying do I think people can be uncertain? Yes, I do think that that's true. Can you get us to the like where are we going?

[00:06:13]Well, so I guess with this kind of emotional truth, what what I would point to is like I mean the easiest example in my head is like black people or trans people like people who are treated as you know for some reason they're being treated as kind of lovely but that's not true and they know that's not true.

[00:06:41]But they have to like go through the experiences of being treated that way and feel that way for just the spark of a moment to notice like really why do you believe that a god exists?

[00:06:54]>> I that could have gone so many ways and we threaded so many needles and I still don't like where it landed but like it's better than it could have been you know.

[00:07:05]Uh >> I mean I think we should believe there's a God because there is one like so I became a Christian uh last week honestly >> because I I kind of just realized there is this like complete um it seems like there's like prophetic information that goes through emotion and that when people are crushed like unduly when they're crushed in an undeserved way and it seems is like there's just a bad event here and this person kind of can't heal those people get ground when they move into their emotions even if it's like unworkable horrible stuff.

[00:07:49]>> I have no idea what you're saying Trevor.

[00:07:51]>> It s it sounds like you actually just said that you became a Christian because of the vibes. That's what it sounded a lot like and I'm trying to figure out what the hell's going on.

[00:08:04]I I'm saying that I mean maybe yeah I became a Christian because the vibe is that when someone gets crushed unduly when there's like no judgment >> I don't even know what that means. Do you mean if somebody gets their feelings hurt? If somebody gets trash, like >> can I try can I try to like >> trans people?

[00:08:27]>> Trevor, can I can I try to make your argument for you please? Cuz I'm I'm [ __ ] >> Let's let Forest steel man you cuz maybe that will help. Maybe I'm just dumb.

[00:08:36]>> Yeah. So it's Can I just try here?

[00:08:39]>> You became a Christian because there is injustice in the universe towards other people and the the the arc of the universe is long but it curves towards justice. And so you have to have a justice creator that gives people a some sense of meaning and feeling and being and and and and some sort of accountability that makes everything make sense and uh that that rationalizes the insanity around you and that there has to be some sort of eternal judge whatever thing that is a divine arbiter of truth and reality and also morality um that we can ground ourselves in because otherwise the society that you live in where people like black people and trans people being oppressed or undul absolutely crushed. Whatever you say is irrational to the point of absurdity and there would be no grounding for society to continue without that objective moral framework and the thing tethering all reality together. Is that even close to your argument?

[00:09:33]>> I mean, I think I think you're saying kind of what I'm saying, but you're saying it backwards because I feel like somewhere in there you were saying at least I need to rationalize and find justice for what's happening. But that's not even how I got to this. I just felt crushed. And >> I didn't ask how you got to this. I just asked if that's your argument for God.

[00:09:53]>> Well, I'm just telling you my argument for God comes from how I got to it. That I felt crushed and I I was emotionally drawn to this >> understanding of the world that >> Right. Right right. If your God is all knowing and all powerful, then your God is ultimately responsible for you being crushed. And that's the conversation that we had with Egg a while ago.

[00:10:16]Yeah, that may be.

[00:10:18]>> Yeah.

[00:10:20]And also, more importantly, there's no evidence for this god actually existing and it sounds like it's just an emotional scapegoat to try to make sense of a shitty situation that has no justification. And what we're saying over here is sometimes shitty things just happen and it's us up to us as humans to try to make those shitty things better because nobody's coming to help us. Not no god, not nobody. We have to make the world better for ourselves and for each other. And you're saying there has to be some reason for this.

[00:10:49]Therefore, some [ __ ] monster in the sky whipped up the world so he could and also the rest of the universe so that he could have a special relationship with one type of great ape. And we better not have butt sex.

[00:11:01]>> And I I don't get how you got there. And I'm just telling you none of this is necessary or worth it or helpful.

[00:11:08]>> Well, okay. I I really I I hope it doesn't seem totally like dishonest and and unworth >> No, it actually sounds incredibly normal.

[00:11:19]>> And that's the worst part.

[00:11:24]>> I'm I'm trying to remember something there that I could respond to. I'm not sure if you want me to respond to it.

[00:11:30]>> Of course I do. It's a call-in show.

[00:11:33]I I just I just I just Man, it's not your fault. I was just kind of sitting here like the things you were saying were just driving me up a wall and then I remembered I'm dying pretty soon and my wife is like right over there and I could be hugging her and eating soup or something and but like god damn dude this sucks. It sucks that this is where you're at because of this reason man.

[00:11:56]>> I I don't understand. Why does it suck that I'm it?

[00:12:00]>> Because you're making excuses for a terrible evil god because you went through some shitty times and you try to make sense of it. And what I'm telling you is you don't need a god that makes things exponentially worse to justify a shitty time that you went through.

[00:12:15]>> I I wish you the best. I'm sorry you went through some shitty times.

[00:12:19]>> You should do your best to make the world a better place and not hitch your wagon to the [ __ ] genocide pedophile rape god.

[00:12:28]That that makes sense. I would not hitch my wagon to that name of a god.

[00:12:33]>> You did. You're a Christian.

[00:12:35]>> But but but but uh I I think it's like essentially it's enough to allow for free will and to also allow for this like you know I'm kind of with these other callers. This guy that was talking about logic is the underpinning and time is a little bit different.

[00:12:54]>> Trevor, you're you're a new Christian.

[00:12:55]Do you know that free will is not even in the Bible? Like that's not biblical.

[00:12:59]In fact, there's multiple circumstances of there not being free will like like where it's just like like overtly said like where God hardens Pharaoh's heart.

[00:13:09]>> Like God show that free will is not happening.

[00:13:17]>> I I mean I'm I'm not well read enough. I am a new Christian, so you're going to be able to flip me here.

[00:13:23]>> It sucks. Well, and and it's just like free will is not even compatible with most of what we know about the universe.

[00:13:29]Like it doesn't but it really it's honestly more incompatible with this idea of an all powerful all- knowing allloving God. Like it doesn't work because of like if you go back and listen to the call with Egg where I'm pointing out like if you are in if you are in control of every single little detail that impacts every single other little detail then you are controlling it all. you are mandating everything that happens. Not just not just responsible for it, although that too, but you're also like divinely orchestrating it, the the horrific things and the good things and everything in between. So, if you're going to go with the like, you know, Christian God there, like free will doesn't fit in there either.

[00:14:12]>> I'm not I'm not really sure I see the disconnect. And I'm sure you have a good point here, but I I feel like um you know, free will I I'm sure you have a point about this hardening the pharaoh's heart, but I also know that like the whole point of the Bible is to call for people to turn their will into like like to adopt the drives kind of that Jesus was moving under like which is to remove their free will in everybody's mind. So, like God created humans to where they're not naturally inclined to be the way that he's requiring them to be in order to not go to hell.

[00:14:55]>> That doesn't seem like somebody who's a big fan of free will.

[00:15:00]>> Do you think that humans are are naturally like Jesus, the the version of Jesus that you believe in?

[00:15:10]>> That's it's hard to say. I mean, I think all gods are made in God's or or all humans are made in God's image.

[00:15:17]>> I think all gods are made in man's image, >> right? Like, do do you like think of think of the worst >> think of the worst human that's done the worst things? Do you think that's a reflection of God's image?

[00:15:32]>> Yeah, I do. And I mean, we can go back to the nationalist, right?

[00:15:35]>> So then we're So then we're you're being more honest than your average Christian that you're acknowledging that Yeah.

[00:15:40]like this god is horrific and does awful things and is terrible. But now we're stuck at the point where it's like why do you believe that God exists? Because the good news is not that oh here's an explanation for why you experienced difficult things. The good news is while I'm so sorry there isn't a good reason behind what you experienced. There isn't some horrific god out there orchestrating these awful events and doing it to you on purpose.

[00:16:06]>> Well, I mean I I think if Calling it a good reason is kind of a funny thing, but I feel like the the reason these kind of horrible things happen is just cuz we're misreading what we're doing and where we are, right?

[00:16:22]Like like the I feel like the the point of the Bible is that there should be some way that we can all work together and that we can all wake up and find each other.

[00:16:33]>> Wait, then what about the Tower of Babel where people are finally all working together? All nations have come together. They're all speaking the exact same language. They've all figured out how to construct this incredible city.

[00:16:43]And then God says, "No, I don't want you all to be able to communicate. This is bad. And I'm going to scatter you across the world and remove your ability to communicate with each other and cause chaos." Like that's a whole story in the Bible.

[00:17:00]>> There's zero val zero value there to working together and to like all just coexisting and being happy together.

[00:17:06]Like it went against that. In fact, God ordered so many genocides against entire people groups because he said that they just shouldn't be able to exist even though he created them supposedly, >> right?

[00:17:19]>> That I mean that makes sense to me that you're that you're calling that out as horrible.

[00:17:26]>> But um >> yeah, dude.

[00:17:28]>> Like so the Tower of Babel like do you think that that's a historical account?

[00:17:32]Like, and I know you don't think that, but I I'm saying like I feel like that at least is a and I am kind of like reading what I want as symbolic here and historical, but I feel like that is a a symbolic >> um kind of cosmological like past event, which is to say that we're about >> what about the genocide against the why we have languages >> and what about the genocide?

[00:17:58]>> I was Yeah. Like what about all the other parts that like are necessary for like the story, >> right? Jesus telling you to hate your family. Better to hate your I have come to uh what is it? Pick up a whatever. I can't remember right now cuz I'm >> I bring a sword, not peace.

[00:18:14]>> I bring a sword, not peace. Yes. And telling people to uh to that it's not hate. Their mother and father can follow me.

[00:18:23]And also like I was I was pointing out also like we're talking about historical events like there's the smiting of like I don't think this [ __ ] happened either but like you know 1st Samuel 15:3 God commands go smite the Amalachites destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them. Put to death men and women and infants cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys. God commands the killing of babies because the people in their community don't worship him. Jesus as as promised is brought out uh brings a whole bunch of [ __ ] hateful horrible [ __ ] about God says that not a jot or a tit of the old law shall change until all things come to pass. So all the times that God commands slavery in the Bible and tells you how to own slaves and how to beat them and where to buy them from and has different rules for Hebrew versus non-Hebrew slaves where you get to keep the non-Hebrew slaves forever and their ch property to pass down to your children. All of that Jesus endorses and says that's all sticking around. Uh I believe Jesus also talks about following the Mosaic laws at one point and and how that's these are the laws your elders shall be yours as well.

[00:19:22]Like there's no part there is no way that you can read the Bible which is pro-slavery front to back, pro- misogyny front to back, pro- genocide front to back, pro- rape front to back, like just an absolute evil [ __ ] book and come out of it saying, "Well, you know that the problem with the world is we just don't love each other enough. We just don't see things." Robert, it just just doesn't work. Dude, >> there's I love that you that that's where you're what you're cherrypicking.

[00:19:50]I wish that all Christians would cherrypick just those parts. The problem is they don't. But there are books out there on these topics where you don't have to cherrypick that are just great ideas about how to make the world a better place and how to get along and all the the values that you're spouting.

[00:20:05]I just this leap that you've taken into religion with it um is just it's it's not only like not fitting with reality, it's also deeply unnecessary. I feel like I mean you said you're a new Christian, you didn't know the story about Pharaoh and all that. Like you've got to look at this stuff before you attach yourself to it. Like that's my big regret is that I took years and years to really face the facts and like look at what I was aligning myself with um and supporting and encouraging others to be part of that has now brought us some of the worst atrocities of all times.

[00:20:42]>> Yeah. I I mean I don't I don't doubt with you that like I I feel like I agree with everything you're both saying and it's um I mean I can respond to those points uh about the Malachi. So that's Samuel. You said that was 1 Samuel. So then it's that is the Old Testament.

[00:21:01]Yeah.

[00:21:03]>> You're so sweet. Thank you, baby love.

[00:21:05]Oh my god. You brought me a thing. I love you so much. She >> so jealous right now. She brought me like what's this? A French dipped sandwich and some fruit.

[00:21:14]>> Snack bringing person.

[00:21:16]>> Oh my gosh.

[00:21:17]>> Um yeah, Trevor, we'll let you finish.

[00:21:19]We'll let you finish this last point and then we'll we'll we're going to close out the show. But um >> yeah, to to answer the question, yes, that is in the Old Testament. Uh that is in the Old Testament. Yes. And also so are the Ten Commandments. And also like we said a second ago, Jesus said that not a jot or tit of the Old shall change until all things come to pass at the end of the age, the apocalypse. Um, so yes, the Old Testament still matters. And also, even in the New Testament, there's a lot of heinous, unforgivable [ __ ] >> I I would not be shocked by that. I mean, there's it's uh it for for all of the good that Christianity and Judaism have brought us, which I think there is some good, and I know you guys are going to hate me on that, but for all of that, there is bad. There he is. Um, >> yeah, my ex-husband had some redeeming qualities about him, too. He's also [ __ ] >> right?

[00:22:13]>> [ __ ] >> That's the thing, man. Yes, you can you can get >> Sorry. Go ahead. Promise.

[00:22:20]>> Yeah. I think that you just you've got to go look at this stuff better.

[00:22:23]Especially like if you're going to call in and defend I'm not I'm glad you called in. That's not my what I'm saying here. I'm just saying for your own sake.

[00:22:30]Like if you're willing to call yourself a Christian, but then you're not aware yourself of all of these things, like you've been duped. I don't know who it is that was a part of your conversion or what people you're hanging out with, but like you've been duped into this. And there's a reason like they aren't preaching from these Bible verses on Sundays. There's a reason that they're cherrypicking these things to get people uh invested in the faith. So, I I would encourage you to go do a bit more due diligence for your own sake. Like, obviously, it would be cool for you to also do that to call back in and we can have a better conversation about like we we didn't really get into so much the your evidence for like any god existing.

[00:23:08]We started talking about the Bible, but um but yeah, I would I would go make yourself more aware of those um those things because that's that's important stuff. And even the fact that you're like I appreciate that you're listening and all of that, but like some red flags to me. you called in and said that you agree with all the other callers who were contradicting each other and now you're saying you agree with pretty much everything you hear in Forest and I saying so that makes me think that you're just really easily persuaded instead of critically analyzing some stuff and >> and also >> and also the last time you called in you called as an atheist saying that you wanted to talk about psychoanalysis. The only reason I haven't considered you a troll is because you waited on the line for 2 hours and 11 minutes before he took your call.

[00:23:50]>> So it's Yeah, I think I think that Promise is right. It just sounds like you're kind of just willing to go for whatever somebody tells you and I encourage you to just be more skeptical.

[00:24:01]>> No sir, if I could have just like a couple more minutes here. I know you guys are already done with me and I have no more meat on my bones, but I uh I mean I was an atheist and I was studying psychoanalysis and then I mean psychoanalysis is like the um it's the post-enlightenment tradition about emotion that is kind of also rejecting religion, right? And it's this this it's a practice of like looking at people's supposedly delusions or unreasonable statements, things that look even contradictory or stupid or embarrassing or shameful. all these things. You look at these and you really take them seriously and look for internal coherence and you say, "Oh, even though this is like an unreasonable thing to believe on its face, this person living in the reality that is unreasonable is getting something totally reasonable at it. They're getting like emotional grounding. They're >> But you're making an argument for why like your argument is not necessarily like, oh, here's evidence that this is true." You're just saying who cares if it's true if it's maybe helping people.

[00:25:16]And that's an entirely different conversation.

[00:25:21]>> Yes. That's the biggest issue that I'm having here is like there's a very >> it is a very different statement to say >> it is a very different statement to say this philosophy gives me hope and this thing is a true fact about reality. And we're talking about true facts about reality here. There is not a single bit of goodness, community, hope, joy, morality, anything that you can get from Christianity that you cannot get without Christianity and also without all the baggage of Christianity. That's the whole point we're trying to make to you, dude. If you're looking for like a really good message to help shape your life, if you're looking for good philosophy, if you're looking for things to get you through hard times, if you're looking for whatever, you can find those things on your own and you can find other like real philosophers that have really good ideas. We can have those conversations if you'd like. but hitching yourself to Christianity, which is a hideous [ __ ] belief system that teaches really immoral things and teaches you all of the like really everything you're looking for here.

[00:26:31]>> Say what?

[00:26:33]>> I did hitch myself to a lot of uh I was kind of going for like a pantheist thing, but but but myself to Christianity. You're right.

[00:26:41]>> Just [ __ ] [ __ ] all of that. And like just just if you want my personal recommendations, look up ancient stoicism and cosmic nihilism. Those are the main schools of philosophy that drive me the most. And when you put them together, you get something kind of similar to absurdism or maybe existentialism. It's pretty cool. I like it a lot. Uh but that's just me. Yo, there's a reason philosophy isn't like a settled science.

[00:27:04]>> Same page.

[00:27:06]We're we're it's a little dishonest for me to say that, but we're kind of on the same page because you're saying absurdism makes sense. You're saying we live in an unreasonable world. And I'm saying that that the Bible and really all of these holy books, the all of these traditions are showing that there is like there's a bit more that the world is unreasonable.

[00:27:33]Like Jesus is saying that people are >> like deaf to the word. Some people have not ears to hear, which is not >> that's being dishonest. You're missing so much. These books make extraordinary claims. So at the end of the day, you either care to believe things that are true or you don't care if something's true or not.

[00:27:53]>> I would like to believe things that are true. I don't want to believe things that are not true. And so when a when the Bible is making these extraordinary claims that there that we do not have evidence for I it loses value for me because like has pointed out several times and like I think you understand anything good found in the Bible I can find some somewhere else where they're not making extraordinary claims backed by nothing.

[00:28:19]>> Mhm.

[00:28:22]I mean, that might be true, but but I do think um and you're I don't know if this is going to get me kicked off here, but I think Jesus's life was pretty cool. I think whether or not you're totally allowed to think that like a representative whether or not he was really like acting in the divine covenant that a god had with the Jews.

[00:28:45]Um whether or not he was in that his just like way of being made him like brought into leadership and then he was killed for that and he kind of knew that would happen. Hold on.

[00:29:01]>> He also wasn't the >> He also wasn't the only one saying all that [ __ ] at that time, >> right? Like like there's nothing. So it's if you think the character of Jesus, like if that's something that like hits home with you, that's totally cool. There are characters that I'm obsessed with that I think are cool and that's fine. But there's a huge leap between like, hey, I like some things about this character. Cuz also, let's be clear, we don't know any of Jesus's actual words. Like you are you are counting on other people reporting things back. Like we don't actually know what Jesus was like. That's like such a it's a crazy thing. Like we barely know what people were like from a hundred years ago. Like we do our best with the information that we have. But like you you like a character in a story. Whether he existed or not, it's still a character in a story that you have created in your head as far as your image of Jesus and what you think Jesus was like. I can already tell that based on some of the stuff you said that like there's a lot of discrepancies about some of those assertions you just made that even biblical scholars won't agree with you on. So you've created this character. That's cool. You are totally allowed to have that. I care about whether that was an actual person that was the son of a god and died and rose from the dead and exists today as a deity. Like that's the part that I care about. Otherwise, to me, it's just like if I sat here and told you about one of my favorite characters from something, you know what I mean? Like it's cool.

[00:30:18]I'm happy for you, but like I don't I I don't personalize the value and that's not like really why we're here doing this show. stuff.

[00:30:25]>> So, can I interrupt you and ask like so why would this character say they know not what they do? Like that's a weird thing for the character to say and I >> it also depends on if he like >> depends on what you believe if he said that.

[00:30:41]>> It depends on what you believe if he said that or you know my God why have you forsaken me?

[00:30:45]>> So like >> right because those are two yeah the last words are cited differently depending on where you read in the Bible.

[00:30:53]Those actually sound You guys are going to think I'm so dishonest, but those sound similar to me, but like from a different perspective. It's like >> I I don't think you're being dishonest, Trevor. I think >> I I think that you're cherry-picking and I think that you are projecting a lot onto what you're reading. Like we all do when we're reading a story we're invested in.

[00:31:12]>> And so that's what I'm saying. Like that part is not interesting to me. Like I'm I'm not your therapist. I'm not like, you know, no offense, it's just not interesting. I'm interested in if something is true and if it actually happened or not.

[00:31:26]>> Yeah. Well, so can I ask you again though because I feel like you dodged my question about um why this character would say >> I didn't dodge it. I got interrupted.

[00:31:35]But I I So I'll answer your question.

[00:31:38]I'll answer your question. I I don't personally I don't find it interesting.

[00:31:43]Um just for whatever reason I guess for whatever reason you find it interesting.

[00:31:46]I don't find it interesting. Even if I did, even if I was like, "Oh my god, that's crazy that he said that, >> that still doesn't mean anything to me."

[00:31:54]Because that just means some guy wrote that he said that. So that at most is interesting like, "Okay, why was that written? That's fascinating."

[00:32:02]>> Yeah.

[00:32:02]>> Even if even if this is like the wildest like it's that's not >> cool. People write stuff and they have written stuff before then that I do. I'm like, "Wow, that's so interesting." But that doesn't have any bearing on any like I don't understand what your point is. He was showing compassion, I guess, saying that, you know, they know not what they do. They're not, you know, they're not aware that I'm so important or whatever it was cuz we can both project all kinds of stories on top of that. Like we literally just have those words and we're and they're translated to English. So, we're also like >> we're really we're like super looking at like mudcovered cherries here and trying to act like we know anything about this situation. So to me, you know, like I I appreciate that you find it interesting.

[00:32:44]I don't find it interesting. And even if I did, like I'll give you that, it still doesn't mean anything. It just means that I think something's interesting.

[00:32:54]Well, I I think I think it's um it's talking about why it's talking about like I find it so interesting that you would say that and that they would include that whether or not this is historical >> because he's indicating like a kind of blindness in other people that can be goodspirited while >> you know how do you know that that was his intent behind that? Like can you read Jesus's mind? Do you know that that's and do you know that he actually said that? Like do you know that he for sure said that?

[00:33:24]>> I can also say that like if this Bible was not actually >> what I read >> if this story isn't true then I would say that that is an attempt by the the authors to do a post hawk rationalization and put into the text the idea that humans are so blind to the will of God. The same reason why the Bible says things like a fool says in his heart that there is no God. Why does the Bible say that? Because if you can convince somebody that they are foolish for disbelieving something, you no longer have to have the argument about whether or not it's true. They are scared to be foolish. And so they just don't mess with it at all. Same reason why it says that blasphemy is the one unforgivable sin. Because if you convince people that they are going to burn in hell if they say anything negative about this creature, they're never going to [ __ ] do it. You don't have to do the hard work of having the conversation. And similarly, if you can bake into the story the idea that these people, as evil as they were, didn't understand what was going on and they are so disconnected from the almighty God that they couldn't have possibly done anything different. Forgive them.

[00:34:26]They don't know what they're doing. That sews the story of eternal love and forgiveness beyond moral understanding.

[00:34:33]And it makes it so that people aren't able to ask productive questions if they believe the story is true. As we are seeing here today, Trevor, if you want a good story that teaches good moral lessons, I encourage you to check out The Lord of the Rings, Gandalf once said, not in the books, but in the movies. Um, is uh some people believe that it is only great power that can hold evil in check, but that's not what I have found. I have found that it is the small things, everyday deeds of ordinary folks that keep the darkness at bay. Simple acts of kindness and love. I think that's a great message that you don't need to believe in a almighty pedophile, rapist, genocidal maniac to work with. You don't have to believe in any of that. You can just like that quote and you don't have to believe that Gandalf is real either. By the way, with that, I think this is the end of the show, Trevor. It's like 10 o'clock my time.

[00:35:24]>> I've got a lot of work to do.

[00:35:26]>> I got Can I hold yours?

[00:35:28]>> No, Trevor. We We're already five minutes over like the max time we usually spend on calls, but you can totally call back. There's nothing. We don't have a problem with >> having the conversation on that. We've just reached our max for the >> show. But if you want to call back >> running away from me, but that's okay.

[00:35:42]>> I That's what all of you tell yourselves and that's totally fine. You can call back tomorrow night and talk to forest again. If you want, you can talk to me.

[00:35:48]I'll be on next Tuesday. You're welcome to call.

[00:35:51]>> I encourage you. This it does make sense. You were leaving the color.

[00:35:54]Really quick, um same Oops, I accidentally clicked the wrong button there. Uh Trevor, same question that I asked to Egg. Do you understand the difference between being afraid of something and being bored of it?

[00:36:06]>> Uh, yeah. You're telling me that you're bored of me and you're trying to >> Yes, I am. I am bored of the call because we've said the same thing as a thousand times. So, we're going to move on now. We've been doing this for three hours.

[00:36:17]>> Covering new territory.

[00:36:19]>> We've been doing this for three hours.

[00:36:21]>> Call on Tuesday night.

[00:36:22]>> If you guys don't want to find out that God is real, then we could just wait until Tuesday, right? But Sunday call Tuesday since you couldn't get to it in 36 minutes and you ended up with just being an ass at the end when we were I thought having a >> decent conversation. But it turns out the last was actually just condescension, not you know banter with us. So maybe we'll take your call again.

[00:36:43]Maybe not. Yeah. Waited till the very end to be a dick.

[00:36:46]>> It is wild that you waited over two hours. Yeah, it is way wild that you waited over 2 hours and heard us talking for over 2 hours and then in 30 minutes couldn't get your point across and then you're going to end with well you guys just don't want to know the truth so we'll just see what happens after you die. Jesus Christ time trying to psychoanalyze my impression of Jesus's maybe maybe not last words instead of like focusing on act the actual conversation that he apparently so desperately wanted to have. I don't know. I thought it was fine until that point. Now I'm not so interested in taking his call. But >> I gotta tell you though, it is it is wild. That that's one thing that I find a lot with people who have absolutely no [ __ ] argument. It is you're scared of me if you won't waste your [ __ ] time with me. And more importantly, they confuse can't and won't. I see this a lot with science deniers, especially like I'm talking to trans phobes or creationists or whatever online. I'm like, "Hey, call into the show. You should answer me right here. And if you don't, that means you can't. And it's like, no, I just don't want to. I'm not going to waste my time in a comment section when I could pull you up in front of tens of thousands of people.

[00:37:55]Same thing with if even if I'm having a conversation on the show. Hey, this is [ __ ] boring. We've said the same thing a thousand times. If you won't continue to engage with me, it means you can't and you are scared. It's just this [ __ ] really pathetic coping mechanism where you try to conflate the the lack of desire with the inability. Circle it back. Jim Bob, we're we're calling him out. We're inviting him on this Sat Friday. Do it.

[00:38:20]>> If he if he doesn't show up, I'm not going to automatically assume that he was like he wasn't able to to withhold us. Maybe he just had other [ __ ] going on.

[00:38:30]>> But I I will I'll think that if he makes a big [ __ ] weird deal about it and then doesn't show up. But that's the whole thing. Like, yeah.

[00:38:36]>> Yeah, dude. Nobody owes you their time or attention, Trevor. And Egg, if you're listening still, cuz you probably are.

[00:38:43]Nobody owes you their time or attention.

[00:38:44]Also, >> this isn't your show.

[00:38:46]>> Trevor had the longest out of anybody tonight. And we don't sit whenever when they continue to not answer our questions over and over and over again.

[00:38:54]>> We It takes a long time till we get to the point we're like, "Okay, you're just scared and you're running away." Like sometimes we'll throw that out if it's been done a million times, but we're like over here giving them the doubt.

[00:39:04]and I've told you we're wrapping the call 15 20 minutes ago and then you try to psycho analyze me instead of like presenting your evidence for God then sorry >> I gave the dude every benefit of the doubt and he >> and you got a snack though you so you need to go snack >> I wanted to be done with that call >> I'm going to go put this in my body >> wow that was a great clip we just watched hey Eve what should the people do Now, >> leave a comment, click like, subscribe, patreon.com/ Does that say call the line?

[00:39:44]>> Yeah, but if you could have we could just make you a little more natural on the next clip. The outro will be much better.