The £3 Million Welsh Net Zero Project to Breed Sheep that Burp and Fart Less

Added: 2026-05-08

[00:00:00]Well, hello there, and welcome to another episode of Unleash Wales. It's been a week or two, mainly because I've been away. But don't worry, we're back, and as usual, I'm joined by researcher at the TaxPayers' Alliance, Jonathan Jonathan, how are you, mate? Yeah, yeah, all good, you? Yeah, not too bad, not too bad at all. So, I wanted to sit down today because we've got one or two things that might be of interest to people in Wales, and indeed people who are interested in Wales. And the first of all, I'm going to kick off with this quite big BBC story which just came out just the other day, I believe, which is basically highlighting how attitudes to net zero are changing specifically in Wales. And I'll just read a little bit for the audience at home. This is a quote from somebody who was interviewed on the doorstep. When I vote, I'm thinking taxes, money, probably not the environment. With another one adding that cutting carbon emissions to net zero was something for the future.

[00:00:51]Those who were thinking about the party's green policy said they felt climate change had been put on the back burner.

[00:00:56]But overall, most people were more concerned about the cost of living, taxes, and other issues.

[00:01:03]Now, it's interesting that it's been reported, I think, Jonathan, because we're mentioned also in this piece in relation to our polling, because our polling, well, a few weeks ago, actually highlights how Welsh people are moving away from net zero, not because they perhaps don't think it's important, but because they just think it's a priority.

[00:01:18]And that has actually translated onto the ground, and people when they're voting in the Senate elections, in the upcoming Senate elections, they're going to have the cost of living and taxes in the forefront of their mind, not the environment and not net zero. Yeah, no, 100%. Um well, I mean, we knew that was the case, and it was always going to be the case. Um priorities obviously get refined as you go towards an election, because it com- becomes a choice of, you know, where am I going to put that single vote? What issue do I care most about? So, all the peripheral issues that you, you know, will talk about throughout the year, those become less relevant during the during an election, especially when you get to the polling booth and you have to vote. So, it's unsurprising that that that kind of reflect is is reflected in our in our polling and and in the BBC article.

[00:02:02]That people are considering, you know, what is um well, what their priorities are. It's also I thought I believe um an issue of the target when it was first introduced for net zero by 2050, and Wales is 2030, but let's say 2050, that you know, that's we're getting close to that. We're nudging closer. It's all we're almost what started off as in 40 years' time we'll be net zero is now 20 years' time we'll be net zero.

[00:02:27]>> Yeah, yeah. The scale of the changes that would need to happen to implement net zero is you know, that that you know, so great that people are having again having to choose their priorities. Um and yeah, it's reflected in in in what people are saying on the doorstep, which is really interesting.

[00:02:45]Yeah, absolutely. And I suppose this is also mentioned in the piece that when net zero and the environment do come up, it's often framed through the guise of energy costs, right? And we've talked about this in detail before, mainly because of course, there's the crisis in Iran Iran with the Strait of Hormuz being closed.

[00:03:06]Fuel prices have shot up, oil prices globally have shot up, and people are really feeling that at the pumps. And indeed, in regards to their energy bills, people are also really feeling that at the moment. Although, to be fair, they have been for some time. And as it as it says in the article, when climate action has come up so far during the campaign, it's often been focused on a debate around energy. Um and also, there's various people in here who believe that because they want to place things like wind farms and solar farms in rural areas, of course, Wales being a very rural area of the country, that's affecting hard on people's attitudes to net zero, and actually they're far more interested in North Sea oil, far more interested in nuclear energy, small modular reactors.

[00:03:47]Um and that's very interesting, showing that it's not just you know, people's because often, you know, when we've talked about this before in the past, it seems that the Welsh government has has some sort of ideological commitment to it. I mean, they made it not perhaps legally binding, but they made a commitment to reaching it by 2030. But the Welsh people, like, you know, any ordinary people, are, you know, focused on the cost of living and just general events, and that's informing their positions on these issues. So, I suppose my question is, do you believe that with the problems in the Middle East going on at the moment, with obviously the fuel crisis, with the fact that we have not really all that much energy security, and the American people are actually talking about North Sea oil, do you think that net zero in Wales over the next few years will become even less of an issue, especially considering, as we've talked before, most parties, apart from the Labour Party, in their manifestos for the Welsh Senate, aren't really talking about it all that much. Yeah, it's interesting it's definitely interesting why why that's the case.

[00:04:47]I think it will still be an issue, I think, but I think it will rumble on the back in the background. I think previously it was it was set out as a, you know, climate policy, whereas now there's more of a necessity issue behind it. It's a different different framing of of the debate, which, you know, will will have it will run its course, and we'll see we'll see how we how we go with that. Um but it's it's definitely interesting in terms of the way the argument's being framed more generally.

[00:05:14]Um yeah, and we'll see we'll see where it goes. Yeah, I mean, I think that the interesting thing we talked about before is the fact that Plaid Cymru or Reform, of course, not committed to net zero.

[00:05:25]Conservatives in Wales are also not committed committed to net zero. Plaid have dropped a lot of that kind of rhetoric, even though, of course, in their heart they still believe it.

[00:05:32]Liberal Democrats, not massively a huge presence in Wales, but again, not massively talking about it. It's only the Labour Party, of course, being government who set this target, who seem to be reiterating their commitment to it.

[00:05:45]Um and of course, we can talk about their reiteration to commitments to net zero, because you have found a fantastic story for us, which you gave to the Daily Star just the other week. Um I want to let you do this one, Jonathan, because this makes me laugh. So, this is a a supposed net zero project in Wales to reduce carbon emissions, which on the surface of it, you might think sounds reasonable. But Jonathan, how reasonable is this really, and what have you got for us? Well, it depends how much you like the sound of farting sheep.

[00:06:12]>> [laughter] >> Um yeah, you know, the Welsh government is spending millions on a grant scheme to genetically modify sheep.

[00:06:21]Um presumably to make them stop, you know, releasing gas into the air, which, you know, you know, yeah, you can make up your own minds at at home about that. I mean, it's could also waste some money.

[00:06:33]Um yeah, it's 3 million in funding over the next 3 years to continue its Welsh sheep genetics program.

[00:06:38]Um that's being funded for by the Meat Production Wales quango.

[00:06:43]Um which we're we're running our Business Quangos on Covert Campaign, we have been for the last year.

[00:06:49]I've never really heard of them, Meat Production Wales quango, but if they're handing off grants to genetically modify sheep, maybe we should take more of a look at that. Um Yeah, the focus of this project will be to ensure that farms are breeding their sheep better, and using genetic data to uh to to judge how they breed their sheep.

[00:07:11]Um Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous, and But 3 million pounds, right? That's not a small amount of change. I mean, Wales, of course, significantly smaller budget than the wider British government, and even the Scottish and Northern Irish governments.

[00:07:27]Um so, the fact that they're announcing 3 million pounds over the next 3 years is actually 1 million quid a year. All the while, Wales has one of the worst National Health Care Services in the United Kingdom.

[00:07:39]Um there's greater unemployment and problems in Wales surrounding the cost of living.

[00:07:46]Transport links in Wales, as I know all too well, living in northeast Wales for a decent period of my life, are not often that great. And of course, our trips to Cardiff have also proved that sometimes as well. Um and they're committing a million pounds a year for the next 3 years to making sure that sheep are genetically engineered to not um well, fart, because it releases carbon emissions.

[00:08:13]The mindset behind this is well, not obviously absurd, but it also I think shows a disrespect for Welsh taxpayers' money, doesn't it?

[00:08:23]Yeah, no, 100%. Well, it's just more of a metric rather than anything else, cuz it's not funded the same way. But the average taxpayer council taxpayer in Wales will pay about 2,000 a year in in council tax broadly.

[00:08:37]It's more than that, but let's say 2,000 pounds. So, if you consider how many times that would go into the 3 million pounds, it just gives you a you know, a scale of the amount we're talking about in terms of what people are, you know, having to contribute towards this. In the grand scheme of things, is 3 million a lot? No. But then, how big is how, you know, impactful would this scheme be? I hazard a guess that not very much. And so, yeah, it it's not it's not really the best use of taxpayers' money, and I'm sure hard-working people in in Wales do not want their money, or England, if, you know, they're getting funding from uh central government. I don't think anyone wants their their funding to go towards this.

[00:09:16]>> Yeah, absolutely.

[00:09:19]I remember I remember you telling me the story, and I just I obviously didn't really believe it when you first came at me, but you said it was true. I I saw it in the Welsh government press release. Ah.

[00:09:29]Yeah, you can see that. Welsh government press release.

[00:09:31]>> released it, and so I was quite I was like, you sure? So, they said that they were they were proud of it. They must have been proud of it. Okay. Very very proud of it. Well, God bless the press officer that wrote that press release, you know, they must have had a whale of a time doing that.

[00:09:44]Um Try to try not to smirk while writing it.

[00:09:46]>> Yeah, try not to smirk while trying to fart while writing it, probably, right?

[00:09:50]Nevertheless, to be on a slightly slightly more serious grant and scheme you've uncovered, this is in energy scheme worth more than 5.4 million and is currently being used to help sports clubs across Wales install green upgrades. Uh, could you sort of detail first of all, obviously, how you found this out, but also what that actually means for uh, these sports clubs and Welsh taxpayers? Yeah, so this is a scheme again by the Welsh government. It's it's delivered by uh, Sports Wales and then in collaboration with the Welsh Welsh government.

[00:10:24]>> Another quango.

[00:10:25]>> Another quango, yeah. So, um, and it's called the energy saving grant uh, program.

[00:10:31]Uh, they offer up to 25 lb uh, 25,000 lb, sorry, to um, support energy saving improvements to facilities and over 300 um, grants have been awarded so far, which again hm creates an approximate amount of 5.4 million. Uh, which is again a lot of money for, you know, improving football pitches to make them more you know, green which you know, I I don't particularly want a tree on my football pitch. Yeah, quite.

[00:10:59]As someone who doesn't like football it is Yeah, imagine a big tree in the middle of uh, you know, a stadium in Wales. I don't think that would be perhaps as conducive to the game, let's say. Yeah, when I when I play I'm more I'm stuck with a tree as well. Yeah, but I don't want I don't want to I don't want a physical tree in the Yeah, absolutely. You're too focused on trying to tackle the other player actually run into the tree in the middle of the pitch. Um, that's interesting.

[00:11:19]To link both of these stories together, obviously one uh, slightly more banal and uh, serious and the other one obviously more more humorous. It is interesting how both of them are being delivered by quangos.

[00:11:32]Um, proving that you know, the Welsh government is not handling these directly, but essentially offloading net zero projects onto the wider Welsh quangocracy. Um, which is similar to what we see in England with a variety of other schemes, isn't it? Yeah, and I I I find it difficult to blame the quangos necessarily cuz >> right. cuz direction will come from the Welsh government. Essentially it is just a once you zoom out and look at the macro, it is a interwoven web of bureaucracy which is performing at different roles and essentially it's not accountable to the, you know, to to the general public. You can replace the the government of Wales.

[00:12:15]Um, but they're, you know, obscuring what they're or how they're dishing out money. You know, who's going to who's going to miss, you know, another million if it goes to Sports Wales then that ends up in you know, improving green football pitches.

[00:12:27]>> Yeah, exactly. You know, given another couple million to uh, to to Meat Production Wales and then and then the next thing you know, they're, you know, genetically engineering sheep.

[00:12:36]So, so it's it's it's more I think it's more of an accountability point here. Yeah, which is Uh, transparency.

[00:12:43]>> Uh, transparency, exactly. Um, ultimately we want uh, as a taxpayers alliance to for for taxpayers to get their their money's worth and that involves lowest the lowest tax bill, you know, possible for the the highest to maximum returns in terms of public service. Uh, this is not that. This this is, you know, money being funneled away from um, you know, individuals who work hard for their money and into projects which, you know, have no real accountability.

[00:13:10]Yeah, and also um, most Welsh people also wish to want to know about our Yeah, exactly. That's why it's why it's important we're doing this campaign.

[00:13:16]Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, yeah, I Although what to to end on a slightly funny note, I I've always um, obviously we've done our quango rich list before at the CPA where we revealed the amount of um, uh, quangocrats receiving over 100,000 lb in remuneration, uh, which of course includes salary, pensions, bonuses and the like. Um, I'd love to see the face of the chief executive or a high-ranking senior manager at um, Meat Promotion Meat Production Wales.

[00:13:47]Um, I said, "Oh, well, sir, you know, what have we got for you today, sir?"

[00:13:50]"Well, sir, today we've been given a 3 million grant by the Welsh government."

[00:13:53]"Oh, excellent. What what's it for?"

[00:13:55]"Uh, we're going to genetically engineer sheep so they don't fart." Imagine having to explain that to your wife and kids when you go in when you go home from work that that's what you do for a job. Uh, you know, it sounds absurd, but again, you know, often uh, absurd things that we do uh, find often do end up being true. But there's a while it is funny to to laugh at that, it is a waste of taxpayers' money and you know, you say yeah, 3 million pounds is not not much, 5.4 million pounds is probably not much, but um, you know, in a place like Wales and indeed the United Kingdom or broadly, you know, every penny counts.

[00:14:25]Yeah, 100%. Uh, I it's definitely not insignificant in terms of when I say it's insignificant I mean more in the the overall picture, you know, of you know, public spending, but that doesn't mean that it's money and it's come out of people's pockets and people work hard for that money and that shouldn't be taken for granted, which quite often it is and that's why we're here. We're here to ensure accountability and ensure that, you know, the public institutions, you know, work properly and do not take the mickey out of taxpayers. Absolutely. Well, Jonathan Ider, defender of the Welsh taxpayer or CPA. CPA, CPA of course, but but you are of especially interested Wales in running this Unleash Wales campaign very very effectively. So, thank you, Jonathan. Always great to talk to you. Uh, thank you for your scoops as usual. Excellent work. Um, if you'd like to find out more about Unleash Wales, you're more than welcome to. All you need to do is go to www.unleashwales.com and see a variety of other work that Jonathan has found on net zero projects and grants and schemes and the like. Uh, and if you like the TaxPayers' Alliance more broadly and would like to hear more from us, please feel free to go down in uh, the bottom of this video, click subscribe, like and share and also leave us your thoughts in the comments below.

[00:15:35]We always very much appreciate it. So, as always, guys, thank you for watching and indeed thank you for listening.