£18k/month Martial Arts Business! The Model Needs to Change to Grow

Added: 2026-06-01

[00:00:00]£18,000 a month doing martial arts.

[00:00:02]Today I speak to Dean. He's an entrepreneur with some challenges. He's got capacity issues in his business. He actually is finding it very difficult to increase his income. But when he does get customers, some are not so sticky.

[00:00:14]Right, strap yourselves in as we try and grow this business. This show is supported by Revolute Business, the all-in-one business account to manage your finances. Whether you've just started out already running a large company, Revolute Business has the tools for you to help you scale and grow.

[00:00:27]Right, let's get into the show.

[00:00:31]Welcome back to the business broadcast.

[00:00:32]I'm James Sinclair. This is the podcast designed to help grow your business. And today we speak to Dean Hardwick. Now he's got a business that's in martial arts called Atlas martial arts.co.uk.

[00:00:40]It's been going five to six years doing £18,000 a month, 10 members of staff.

[00:00:45]Got some challenges in the business.

[00:00:46]Challenge number one is retention. We try everything James we can think of to make our customer journey great, but we seem to have holes that we can't plug.

[00:00:54]Uh second biggest challenge, we'd like to buy our unit, but not sure how we can finance it. Well, how you finance it is become as profitable as possible. Third biggest challenge, parking. We'd like to expound, but our part about our parking hold us back. We're not sure of our options or what we can do here.

[00:01:08]Difficult that difficult. Difficult. In fact, we've just made a video on the main YouTube channel about us buying a wedding venue that we're going to turn into a day nursery, an ice cream parlor.

[00:01:18]And we identify through all the years of me doing things. Parking is such a big thing that can be depressing on your revenue in your business. is a big thing to think about. People like price ranging convenience and if it's not convenience to park then people don't come. And do you know what I think that's a big thing that our high streets are battling against out of town retail centers and big shopping centers because they make it easier to park. Price, range, convenience are the three drivers that I find make people buy in business.

[00:01:46]Where do you want to be in one year's time? We asked Dino Bolino and he said, "Owning our unit, buying a piece of land, or building our dream facility." I asked him this. What would the business look like when you're finished? He said, "A two-story building with plenty of parking, a dedicated area for both Mai and BJJ.

[00:02:04]Um, so we can have multiple classes running at the same time." What are you laughing at, John?

[00:02:09]>> You don't know what that is, do you?

[00:02:10]>> What is BJJ?

[00:02:11]>> Brazilian jiu-jitsu.

[00:02:12]>> Oh, is it?

[00:02:15]>> Okay, we'll just move on now so we can have multiple classes running at the same time. Do you make the profit that you want to make? If so, what is it? He said, I make a decent profit, but not life-changing. I would like to double my income. Currently, it's 2,500 a month. I mean, come on, mate. Dean, you can't be running a business and be happy with two and a half or 5,000 a month. You take all of that risk. We need to be thinking a lot bigger if we want to get better results. Um, how do you spend your day-to-day time in the business? He said, I do multiple tasks. I have a gym manager that helps with the load, but I still take care of the socials, the website, the bills, anything techy, anything to do with the business. I also teach at my gym as well. This bloke is wearing many hats to run this business.

[00:02:55]Sounds like we're at the top of soloreneur when they get into entrepreneur then go up to investorreneurs. So what we're talking about here is the philosophy that we have which is called the entrepreneurs pyramid. People start as soloreneurs then they go into entrepreneurs and then we want to go to the top of the pyramid which we call the investorreneurs and um that's the journey I want entrepreneurs to take. Then he's got some questions that he'd like to ask me.

[00:03:18]We have got something that's a little bit like this. Let's knock on the door.

[00:03:23]>> Interesting quote of fact. Interesting quote. Interesting quote of fact. It's time for the interesting quote of fact of the week.

[00:03:32]>> Yes, it is. Now, I saw this on Instagram and I thought Chad could play along with me. And actually, Dean, we're going to let you join in on this and then I'll get rid of you before we get you back on. Um, this is a question and I thought was so interesting I thought I'd bring it on the pod. What percentage of people who own their own home across Europe?

[00:03:50]So, we're just looking at Europe here.

[00:03:51]What's the percentage of people that own their own home across Europe? So, we're doing it in percentage terms. Uh Dean, what percentage of people do you think own their own home with a mortgage or outright in the United Kingdom? Your guess, please.

[00:04:04]>> Um I would say around 30%.

[00:04:07]>> 30%. You're going 30%. Michael Chadley, >> UK or Europe? You just said >> just UK. Sorry, just UK at the moment.

[00:04:13]>> And is this people either renting or owning?

[00:04:16]>> No. No. Because percentage of the population, there's a lot of kids, a lot of elderly.

[00:04:20]>> There's people that own their own house completely outright or they've got a mortgage.

[00:04:25]>> Oh, okay.

[00:04:28]>> Dean, did you understand that?

[00:04:30]>> Yes, I did think it was Europe as well.

[00:04:33]>> No, no, I'm going to break down some countries. So, we'll just do the UK, then we're going to hop over to Germany, then France, then Spain, then we're going to go to Romania and Bulgaria.

[00:04:42]>> Own it or have a mortgage? I'm going to say >> So, you'd be in this category, Michael Trudley. Yeah, I'm going to say 40%.

[00:04:52]>> You think only 40% >> 40% people own the house >> either outright or with a mortgage?

[00:04:58]>> Yeah.

[00:04:59]>> So, you think 60% of people are renting?

[00:05:01]>> Yeah.

[00:05:04]>> What did you say, Deie?

[00:05:06]>> 30%.

[00:05:07]>> So, it's the other way around. 65% of people in the UK own >> their house outright or with a mortgage.

[00:05:14]Ireland would be 69%. What do you think Germany is?

[00:05:20]>> Higher 80%.

[00:05:21]>> Lower.

[00:05:22]>> 47%. Um, and I didn't know that because it's always a a thing that comes up for property investors. People do not want to own uh property in Germany. And it actually you get empty shelves and you can put your own kitchen in and stuff.

[00:05:35]It's more like a commercial lease u for residential property in the uh in Germany. France is 61%, Spain 77%.

[00:05:45]What country in Europe do you think most of the people own where they live?

[00:05:50]I It's I just would never have guessed it. So that's why it's interesting.

[00:05:54]>> Italy.

[00:05:55]>> No, Dalia is 75%.

[00:05:57]>> Oh, >> so more than the UK. You're going sort of in the right direction.

[00:06:05]>> Should I take you out your misery?

[00:06:06]>> Go on.

[00:06:07]>> Romania. 94% of people in Romania own their own property either with mortgage or outright. Um, Bulgaria is 86%, Lithuania 87%, Poland 87%.

[00:06:20]Suddenly, do you know where where these people are earning goodter incomes or better incomes in those country, but the property prices are way lower than France, uh, UK and Germany. So, I think that has something to do with it. Um, I thought that was very interesting.

[00:06:34]Norway is 78%, Sweden is 65%.

[00:06:38]Um, >> and the UK was what?

[00:06:41]>> 65%. Ireland is actually a little bit higher than us, 69%.

[00:06:45]>> I wonder what the favorite number.

[00:06:47]>> I wonder what the >> the cultural history is between like why Romania own so many of them own their own house or have a mortgage. There's got to be like a >> I'm just guessing Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Serbia, Bulgaria, they are all countries where more people own them out, right? And I just know that property prices are cheaper in those countries. So, I do think that will have a correlation.

[00:07:12]>> Yeah.

[00:07:13]>> Okay, Dean, welcome to the show. Um, tell us a little bit about your business in 30 seconds. Over to you.

[00:07:19]>> So, we run a martial arts center in uh Northampton Ship. We started 2020 just before COVID hit which was not the best time but we saw our way through it and we've been growing ever since.

[00:07:33]>> I spoke about the entrepreneurs pyramid earlier. Where do you think you're at on that? Soloropreneur, entrepreneur or investorreneur? Do you know my definitions of all three?

[00:07:41]>> Um not sure.

[00:07:43]>> An investor would be like a shareholder of their business even if they own it 100%. It's run under management. They're completely out of it. Um they're having a lovely time. entrepreneurs, different levels on the entrepreneurs pyramid. So you got low-level entrepreneur, high level entrepreneur. Um, but would you say if someone looked to you, what would be your job title in the business?

[00:08:03]>> I'm I certainly don't do everything anymore. Uh, we've started to build team and system so I don't have to do that.

[00:08:10]So I've moved I would say I've moved out of solo prneur and I'm starting to get into the area where I've got people looking after things.

[00:08:18]>> Okay, fine. That's good. That's good.

[00:08:20]That's good. Right, let's quickly go through some of the things that you said. Your biggest challenge is retention. We try everything we can to make our customer journey great, but seems to still have holes that we can't plug. Is this people once they're a customer, they leave and don't return or this is in the marketing journey?

[00:08:37]>> Um, a bit of both. So, we have students that have been with us for years when we first open, but we have also ones that will start and then drop off fairly quickly.

[00:08:51]>> And we try and do everything we can to keep them involved. Um, we have systems in place that send messages, follow-up messages, um, kind of staged emails and messages to kind of coach them through that beginner period.

[00:09:09]Um, but we still seem to get people slip through the cracks for some reason.

[00:09:14]>> How many people I mean, let's just hopscotch out of your sector. How many people start gyms and never go?

[00:09:20]>> Lots.

[00:09:21]>> Lots. Yeah.

[00:09:22]>> How many people start hobbies and never go any further? You know, they buy all the fishing gear, they buy the golf clubs and then never do it. I think sometimes, you know, half of business, you know, when you look at marketing is, you know, half of marketing is human psychology. And I think we need to look at businesses and look at the human psychology. Um, would I invest in knowing what I know now about leisure, hospitality? They are my most difficult businesses. They're the ones that I probably enjoy the most. But I I do know that if I look at my storage business or my commercial property business, what's the revenues they're going to do in 12 months time? I can probably tell you to the nearest one or 2%. But, you know, things like going to the gym, going to a restaurant, going to a karate thing or a jiu-jitsu thing, the weather would play a big part of it. I mean, I've seen Marsh Farm this year. Everyone's been caught. I BET YOU'VE BEEN GOING LIKE GANG BUSTERS IN ALL THIS HEAT, JAMES. I bet you've been having it off. No, no, too hot. People don't want to come when it's too hot, you know, on the stay at home. You know, human beings are very fickle. And I think when we look at our business models, if you've, you know, this is your passion obviously, and I'm just sort of having an honest conversation here because I think, you know, we all need to have that. I went into a business that was my passion. Uh it was a love and a want business.

[00:10:42]People loved what I did. They wanted what I did, but I absolutely realized they didn't need what I did.

[00:10:47]Entertainment business, days out, uh all of that stuff. And so I've gone through my career to try and build businesses that love, want, and need. And that's why I got into child care, why I got into storage and commercial property and um all of these things. And and and when you know I look at my this business, you know, my business seminar business, you know, people, you know, really do need to learn about how to make their business more profitable. And if there is a point of pain that they've got, they go, "Yeah, I'd love to have more money. I want to have more money. And you know what? At times, I really need to have more money." And so then then they will pay to get the solutions to those things. And I think there will be some hardcore fats that will learn to love what you do. Um I think the other thing that you could do is go heavy on content marketing to try and build the funnel to get more people to try. But I mean how many people went and bought Pelaton things, you know, spent all that money and then didn't carry on with it.

[00:11:44]And you saw I think 70% of Pelaton subscription users left after a very short period of time. And um I think data backs up that you know you need to keep on building the top of the funnel.

[00:11:58]But what I would suggest you do is go well I love this business. I want this business but let's bolt on something that is love, want, need over time. um that we extract our profits from this business and put it into something that gives you that strong income that's far more predictable going forward. Um I think if I was running your business, I would have this challenge as well.

[00:12:20]>> Our turn rates are pretty good. I was just we the ind for very good in in the industry, it's about 5%. And we sit depending on the time of year around seven or eight. So I'd just like to improve it if I could because obviously the better you get with your churn rate the less people you have to keep getting in every month. So >> but there is something there is something why if we look at sports why does football what does football do and I'm trying not to give the answer away. What does football do that other sports don't do?

[00:12:55]>> It's everywhere.

[00:12:56]>> It's because they build community.

[00:13:00]>> Yeah. football local football clubs.

[00:13:02]We're meeting on sat there's like 11 or 12. It's a community with entertainment afterwards. You know, it's the community thing that makes people more sticky and regular.

[00:13:14]You know, look, why would anyone go?

[00:13:16]Sorry, I have to be careful here. You churches and mosques and religions. Big reason why those people go every Sunday and stay very sticky to it is the community element. M >> Cub Scouts, Beavers, whatever it is, these things, you know, there's a there's a strong community element. I don't know a sport that can bring a country together um like football does. And you know what, I've been talking about our events and our seminars. We used to hold our big business mass in London. And I and I've known for a number of years that it's good to be in London, but it doesn't help you build community. And I said, "We need to get a country hotel that we take over the whole hotel so that people can build friendships that they they, you know, they they they can't go into London and go to sexy fish or some ponyy restaurant and then leave our community that we want to build up of entrepreneurs and business owners."

[00:14:12]It's funny thing. I I always remember that I I went to a marketing conference in Denver in Colorado in America. Um, and um, I remember Dan Kennedy talking about this, uh, who's a famous direct response marketer, wrote 15 books on how to get customers and keep customers in your business. One of the big things he said, you'll always find us hold all of our events in hotels that not in cities because it forces people to build community. And that's where I've sort of got the idea for us to do that more in our businesses, in our business events.

[00:14:49]And I do think if you could build community more with it and think about that how can you do that? How can you make people become friends then I think the stickiness increases so much more >> for the size of the area we've got for like football we have got a lot of members.

[00:15:07]>> Yeah.

[00:15:08]>> And I think that's what's allowed us to keep that amount of members is because once they're in the community especially in the Brazilian jiu-jitsu world is is very close. is very tight-knit. Like if if someone has a problem top of England, the whole community comes together to like fund raise or get involved. I think where we're missing is the people that don't allow themselves to get involved in the community element in those first kind of three months. They're the ones we're losing because they're not experiencing that side of it.

[00:15:44]Well, what can you do to improve that?

[00:15:47]Rather than just another text message, email follow up. And maybe you need to say to people, bring a friend along.

[00:15:54]>> You know, you know, look, for your first session, bring a friend along so that you know, two people there straight away. It's a bit weird when you're adults to try and make community straight away. I think we're especially blo it takes a bit of time doesn't it to >> we we have a philosophy in the gym where it's not about winning in the gym it's about helping each other improve and that helps build that community so you don't get sort of one person taking advantage of other people it we're all there >> what you're saying after six months nine months that stuff starts to happen but it's the first 90 days >> yeah that that's tends to be the biggest falloff I mean, if you had loads of money and cash flow wasn't a problem, it's really important to try and put a community manager in there to make that stuff happen. Socials are really important. I mean, I know people that I've helped with boot camps and stuff. The social events that they do really makes their customers sticky. It's bloody exhausting. You think I'm I'm doing all this for two and a half grand a month.

[00:16:57]Let's um let's move on to the second biggest change because I think retention is all about community, but how are you going to make that happen? The second biggest change, we like to buy our unit.

[00:17:05]I'm not sure how ways we can finance it.

[00:17:08]Listen, if if you find a building that that's half a million quid, but you make 100 grand or 150 grand profit, I think you'll be able to get the mortgage on it. But at the moment, I think uh I get that you want to buy the building, but I think you need to drive um positive cash flow and profitability as your primary driver so that you get fit for finance.

[00:17:29]We're in the stage now where we're coming up to our break clause and I didn't know whether to approach the landlord and ask if we could buy the unit we're in >> because there's potential for more parking but it need investment and I didn't really want to invest the money if I don't own the building.

[00:17:49]>> Well, ask him if he'd sell it to you.

[00:17:52]But you you've got to get your profits up to get you the mortgage, haven't you?

[00:17:56]What do you reckon the building's worth?

[00:17:58]The whole site was bought in 2019 for 500 grand and our site is a third of it.

[00:18:05]So I being generous, it's probably worth about 320.

[00:18:11]>> But he owns all the rest of it, does he?

[00:18:13]But he's got other tenants on there.

[00:18:15]>> Yeah.

[00:18:16]>> Don't sound like someone that would want to sell though, does it?

[00:18:20]>> I have no idea.

[00:18:22]>> I mean, the other thing is say, look, if we renew a lease, can we have an option to purchase it and you set the price now? So that's called a lease option. I think that could be worth doing that if you have you got a deposit.

[00:18:34]>> Uh I've managed to save up 50 grand.

[00:18:36]>> Oh well then maybe you could do it. I mean definitely ask him. I mean what's the worst he can say? I'll be ringing him up now >> saying look I want to I need more parking. Uh I could develop this but would you consider selling it to me? And he might say yes.

[00:18:50]>> That was always the plan to approach him. And then obviously when uh you guys messaged to say I could come on here, I wanted to speak to you first.

[00:18:58]>> Yeah. Definitely ask him. And then if he says no, I say, "Well, what about an option agreement to buy it in the future?"

[00:19:04]>> Mhm. Yeah. So what was that called again? A lease >> a lease option. So you it means he has to sell it to you, >> right? this legal binding document that when you trigger it, so you say, "Look, I'll buy offer you for x amount of pounds in three years time or in five up to now and five years time." I mean, if you've got the deposit and then obviously just try and buy it straight away.

[00:19:28]>> Mhm.

[00:19:28]>> What are the other two units on there?

[00:19:30]Uh it's just one and it's slightly bigger than ours. Uh and it just sits kind of opposite us and there's like a access road in the middle and we've got a few spaces outside. They've got a few spaces there.

[00:19:42]>> What do they do?

[00:19:43]>> They do um veterary services. They're like a science lab.

[00:19:48]>> Well, so that'd be very good business. I mean, I'll try and buy the whole lot.

[00:19:52]So, would you like to sell the thing and keep them as a tenant?

[00:19:54]>> Yeah. I don't know if I'd have the deposit, though.

[00:19:57]>> Well, well, find a way of doing it. Come on, baby. You're speaking to me now. We can do it. Uh, third biggest challenge, parking. We'd like to Oh, so I think we've answered that. Um, where do you want to be in when you're owning the unit? The first stage is talking to the guy, isn't it? Just got to have that talk. Be careful when you move out because of them things called dilapidations. Do you know what that is?

[00:20:19]>> No.

[00:20:19]>> Where you have to return the building to the original state.

[00:20:22]>> Yeah. Yeah. Sorry.

[00:20:23]>> That can be very costly. So actually sometimes the deposit on buying the building can be cheaper than the dilapidations.

[00:20:30]>> Well, we'd be staying in the same building.

[00:20:32]>> Well, yeah, but if you if he says no, you don't want to buy it and you'd go, "Well, let's go and find somewhere else."

[00:20:37]>> Yeah.

[00:20:38]>> Just be careful of that.

[00:20:40]>> Yeah.

[00:20:40]>> Right. We've got some questions to ask you now. So, I'd like you to think along. You don't if you don't answer them, just say pass if you're not sure.

[00:20:48]Okay.

[00:20:48]>> Okay.

[00:20:48]>> So, what is the biggest What is your biggest challenge currently limiting your business growth? And what impact is it having on the business?

[00:20:57]>> It would be I'd probably say space either the parking or we we can't physically fit more people in >> capacity park. Do you know what? This is one of my big things. When I started in my indoor play business, you know, on a rainy day, we just couldn't get any more people in the building. We couldn't park people. It was a real lid on the income.

[00:21:23]And it's I absolutely get it. I think most uninitiated will go, "What are you talking about?" But absolutely. Yeah. We we we can only turn so much a day in those places just cuz you can't fit any more people in. That's why I went into outdoor attractions because on your busy days, you can get 6,000 people in, 7,000 people in if you really need to. What part of the business currently uh sorry, what business metric or KPIs concern you most? Right. certainly over the last few months would be our marketing. Um, it's not been performing well like it has done in the past. Um, whether or not that's been another algorithm change, I'm not sure, but we've been struggling with our campaigns.

[00:22:04]>> What about do you make content?

[00:22:07]>> Yes, but not as much as I probably could.

[00:22:11]>> Okay. If you don't do it consistently and fulltime, you really don't get the results and therefore you need to look at other things. What about direct mail?

[00:22:18]Have you thought about sending letters or leaflets or doing demonstrations in schools and going to gyms and asking to do demonstrations?

[00:22:28]>> Yeah. So, we've done a leaflet run before which worked quite well. So, we're looking at doing that now because of our last three campaigns have been really bad. Um, I think we've gone up from six pound a lead to 17 pound a lead. So, we're thinking about going kind of old school and doing uh leaflet runs to see if we get any better responses.

[00:22:50]>> But try and find those leaflets, get in the hands of people that will be most likely to use you. So, if you can go and do demonstrations where there is already a community. So, I mean, I would be going broad like I would be going to the army cadetses. I would be going to because any age can do it, can't they?

[00:23:10]>> Yes.

[00:23:10]>> Yeah. So I would go where there is already community and say look we would like to invite you along to a free demonstration.

[00:23:17]>> Yeah. Bring the whole lot. Go to companies you employ 500 people in a factory and say look guys I'd like to come. We're doing a jiu-jitsu session.

[00:23:26]Would you like to come along and do a free trial try and do things like that good oldfashioned network marketing which would have worked in the 70s and 80s and 90s. Hardly anyone's doing that right now.

[00:23:37]>> Go to social clubs. Go to you know cricket clubs. go to football clubs and say, "Look guys, you're doing football.

[00:23:43]Would you like to consider doing this?"

[00:23:44]You know, they do you see what I mean?

[00:23:46]That stuff.

[00:23:47]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:23:47]>> Rather than just sending 5,000 leaflets through doors. Yeah. We'll get some results on that, but you Let's try and find people that already like going to clubs and stuff.

[00:23:57]>> Yeah.

[00:23:57]>> Have you ever done any stuff like that?

[00:24:00]>> No, but I' I've had mentors in the past and that has actually come up. um we've just not got to the point where we've because we were so focused on filling the building which we've now pretty much done that never got the attention that it uh needed whereas now there's more of a need for it.

[00:24:17]>> I mean I would be doing you just set yourself a KPI we're going to be doing two demonstrations in community groups every flipping week or I'm going to die at Christmas >> and then you'll make it happen. And that really really will get you effective results because people will see I really like this guy. I like this team. this could be good. Go to them rather than just rely on them to come to you.

[00:24:39]Because if you can get in front I built my business, Jimbo the party man, my my first entertainment company by going and doing free shows at schools and cup groups and scout groups. It literally flooded me with leads.

[00:24:51]>> Yeah, it's something we we'll be implementing.

[00:24:55]>> What part of the business currently depends too heavily on you?

[00:24:58]>> Um I would probably say the social media aspect.

[00:25:02]Um, I've got a good group of coaches now that has taken the pressure off me having to teach all the time. Um, but I've got no one to run the social media accounts, which I'd actually like to hire someone, but the issue I've got there is there's not enough funds available to hire someone to do it. So, I kind of try and do the best I can. I think uh I've I've invited someone on to my my podcast um that does planning for for farmers. Very boring. Uh but he's been doing a daily Instagram walk around his farm and he starts off by giving a little bit of uh detail about planning for farmers. I'm obsessed with the bloke. I can't stop. I just find it so fascinating. He's So one of these things is he's like a Have you ever wondered if you can put containers on your land to make extra money? Have you ever wondered how many buildings you can put on your land without asking for planning permission? Yeah, I am interested in that. And he says, "Hi, I'm Guy and I help farmers get planning permission."

[00:26:03]As is just it's really really simple and I think that is a small business owner doing social media very well just dedicating 5 to 10 minutes a day. Hardly any editing. He's just he gets a headline amplifies a pain point then says his expertise then says how he can help you and he doesn't really you know say come and join me give me loads of money but I I just know people will message him going can you help me with my planning thing can you help me with my planning thing and I just think you know like if I had your business I would be saying um exercise don't have to be boring there is ways you can do it using a community and being part of a group, you know, something like that. Or do you hate running, but you know, you need to do some exercising? Hi, I'm Dean and I help men over 40 get back into shape, you know, something like that. Do you see what I mean? I I don't know exactly, but I think you could really do that if you do that consistently every day. No one's going to be watching for a while. Yeah, that's him. Um, no one's going to be watching for a while. Um, but it will eventually work.

[00:27:10]I actually thought about doing something similar on like Instagram stories that would help the people in that 90day period.

[00:27:18]>> Yeah.

[00:27:18]>> Just going over fears and anxieties they may have on that first 30 or 90 days and just doing little videos and hoping that that might connect with them and keep them in the gym and involved.

[00:27:32]>> But I think on Instagram we have to grab people's attention. Mhm.

[00:27:37]>> And so I think if you look at the the marketing methodology that we go, get their attention, keep their interest, keep their desire, then a call to action. What you're doing is keep them in the it's like all about Dean there.

[00:27:51]It's all about you trying to protect your cash flow and stuff like it just seeps out there. What I want to do is get people's attention and give them value. Teach them and educate them and edutain them and then eventually they'll come to you. where it was more for members that because they are on the Instagram. I knew I'd be kind of talking to them and >> that's retaining customers, isn't it? I want you >> doing it for the new >> get the awareness in.

[00:28:21]>> Yeah.

[00:28:24]>> Yeah. Well, you want to see like someone, you know, I just I think that really works what he's done there because I I I would never if someone said to me, "Hey, James, I've got a planning um a planning business. Do you think I should be doing Instagram to grow my business?" I'd go, "No, I absolutely don't. I think you should be doing Google Ads and I think you should be doing maybe a bit of LinkedIn." I've seen that and I'm like, James Sinclair's got that wrong. James Sinclair got that wrong because I he's getting leads and I can see he's getting like 22 comments and I've seen the people that are following him very established farmers that I know because you can see who's following you on um on on Instagram and I thought god he's he's really got a good little thing there. Right. Move on to the next question. What do you feel the business lacks? Structure, systems, or consistency or all of it?

[00:29:15]>> To be fair, I feel we do fairly well in all three. Um, we've got a good team structure in place. We've got a lot of systems in place >> with consistency though. You're saying people are dropping off. So, it's the consistency of the revenue, but the consistence of the operations is there.

[00:29:31]Is that what you mean?

[00:29:32]>> Yeah. I think certain areas we could be definitely more consistent like our content marketing. Um, we'll go through spats where we'll do a lot and then we'll get bogged down with other jobs and then it gets kind of put to the back shelf. Yeah.

[00:29:45]>> So, we could do >> You know what that is, Dane?

[00:29:48]Everything that works on peak performance is doing very important non-urgent tasks. The whole world, you know, everything we do in business, if we do very important non-urgent tasks, like if you wrote a book about uh dujitsu, the the sector you're really, you made a YouTube channel about it, you made a podcast about it, it's all very important non-urgent tasks that over time will absolutely pay you dividends.

[00:30:12]And what happens is most business owners fall into the camp of working on the very important, very urgent. You know, we've got to meet payroll, we've got to meet rent, we've got to service customers, we've got to answer the emails, got to answer the phone, got to pack the orders and send them out. But peak performance is working on very important on urgent stuff.

[00:30:30]>> Question number five, what is stopping the business from reaching the next level and what major business decisions are you currently trying to make?

[00:30:38]Um, certainly the purchasing of the unit is probably the biggest decision I've ever had to do.

[00:30:44]>> I think that's possible for you though if I mean the big thing is I think if you've got a profitable business, you've got the deposit, you're going to have a better profitable year. The big challenge is getting the bloke to agree to sell it to you, isn't it? Yeah. And I would be picking up the phone and getting that sorted because otherwise you're wasting time thinking about it and energy. Oh, I hope I can do this. I haven't. And if he just says no, Dean, you're not buying it. Move on to the next thing. and try and find something else, you know.

[00:31:08]>> Yeah.

[00:31:10]>> Um, here's a question for you and this is a good one. Think about this. If the business doubled in size tomorrow, what would struggle first?

[00:31:20]>> Definitely our building size. We'd need to expand >> size of building.

[00:31:26]>> So, that building is really a problem for you, isn't it? We've we've currently got 325 members and I'd say at capacity would be 400 where we literally couldn't fit anyone in. Our children's classes are are pretty much at capacity across the board. Our adults classes, we've got some spaces, but if we got to 400, it's like game over.

[00:31:48]>> Okay.

[00:31:48]>> We we'd have to shut the doors and create weight list.

[00:31:51]>> Can I just Why are we buying it then? Go and buy something bigger that someone does really want to sell.

[00:31:57]Um, >> I mean, you're answer you're sort of answering your own question there because you do want to double the size of the business and if that building can't cope unique problemmo, isn't it?

[00:32:11]>> Um, yes, >> Dean, I don't want you to answer that to me. Yeah, but that's for you to make that decision.

[00:32:17]>> Yeah.

[00:32:18]>> I'm just saying something you've told me 60 seconds ago, something you told me 10 seconds ago. Like why are we buying that if it doesn't fit our purpose in a couple of years time?

[00:32:30]>> It we've got scope on the schedule to expand a little bit. So that will give us more spaces, but not to double not to double the size.

[00:32:39]>> But do you want it to double in size in the next three years?

[00:32:42]>> Um >> and it's if the answer's no and you're happy with how it is, that's also fine.

[00:32:46]>> To be honest, I've never thought about growing it that big. Um cuz when I first started this 5 years ago, 100 members seemed impossible and then we got there and we went to 200 and then went to 300.

[00:32:59]So every time we hit a milestone, we kind of our goals change slightly and we grow.

[00:33:05]>> Here's the thing though, Dean, you know, I do want you to think about there's this, you know, book that I always quote, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. Have you heard that book?

[00:33:14]>> No. It's a very famous personal development book, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. And it's a really good audio listen as well. So, if you're driving around, big shout out to anyone, go and give it a little read or a listen, sorry. Uh because reading it whilst driving, I've heard, is dangerous. Uh so, give it a little less a listen. Um and well, the last habit is or the first habit, sorry, is thinking with the end in mind. Knowing what the finish line looks like. And anyone that's successful in education that goes to university because they want to be a doctor, a vet always comes out with the better thing. Anyone that builds a business go want this to have x amount of profit. It's going to be selling in five years. And yeah, they bullet point what the end in mind looks like. What a great team looks like. They play fantasy football with their business. They don't let constraints get in the way because they're thinking with the end in mind.

[00:34:06]They're thinking in 10ear chunks. Good quote that we always say here on the show.

[00:34:12]uh most people overestimate what can be achieved in a year and underestimate what can be achieved in 10 years. So if you really look at that and I would get yourself, you know, a good oldfashioned notepad and just say this is what my business will look like when it's finished. This is what my business will look like when it's finished. What's the profit? What's the revenue? What's the team? What's the culture? What will I be doing? And write it down. And then you get the art of the possible. And you might look at that and go, I think I'll keep my deposit and find something a bit bigger. Mhm.

[00:34:42]>> But you might also, let me just pause for thought here. You might also go, "No, I want a lifestyle business that just pays me 80 grand a year and I have a lovely life." But, you know, people will just go, "Oh, it'll be a little bit bigger this year. Do a little bit bigger this year, a little bit bigger this year." And then before you know it, you're dead. You know, by just doing a little bit more each year. Super successful people think with the end in mind.

[00:35:03]>> That was is is part of my problem. And self-development. I've never fought big enough because where we are now was my 10-year plan and we achieved it relatively quickly.

[00:35:16]>> Yeah.

[00:35:17]>> I don't think I've re-evaluated what the next end goal is.

[00:35:22]>> But Dean, you the big question for anyone that's listening to this that's having the quandry and I think a lot of people have the quandry is do you want to be like James Sinclair and build a monster?

[00:35:32]>> And that comes with all the stresses. I do not recommend my life on anyone. Or do you want to build more like what Chuds is building with, you know, works for me and he also has got his street photographers. He's one of the happiest people I know. You know, it's, you know, I think people need to make that decision. I don't think I don't know.

[00:35:50]Let's ask him as he's sitting in front of me. Ch. Do you want to employ loads of people one day?

[00:35:53]>> No way. No, thank you.

[00:35:55]>> See, do you see that?

[00:35:57]But I do.

[00:35:59]But but both of us at those opposite end of the you know I that's why I really I think I have to just say to people you follow this podcast you listen to this podcast this thing that I do is not for everyone and is not the answer for everyone.

[00:36:15]What Chuds is doing over there you know will I end up with a bigger pot of gold at 65 than Chuds will at 65. I think the answer is yes. I'll have more than him.

[00:36:26]Will he be happier than me? I think he will be happier than me. And I just want to I just want to put it out there. It's not for everyone to have that. But but you do need to have a way. Whether you're Michael Chudley, whether you're Dave Dave from the pub or James Sinclair, there needs to be some form of wealth creation within us. Whether we've invested in commercial property, whether we've done stocks or shares, because you can't just rely on cash flow, salary, you know, over time. You need to build something bigger.

[00:37:00]Sorry, something that's a slowpowered wealth creation theme.

[00:37:06]Okay, this is a new little structure here with these questions and I'm very much liking them. Uh, where do you feel the business is currently underperforming compared to competitors?

[00:37:16]It's a good question. Let me just ask you that one more time. Where do you feel your business is currently underperforming compared to competitors?

[00:37:25]>> That is a good question.

[00:37:27]Um >> that is a fantastic question. Whoever come up with that Steve has done it.

[00:37:35]>> Yeah.

[00:37:35]>> Possibly in our retention. Um >> well your competitors are doing that better than you.

[00:37:42]>> It's well I don't know because you you I I try not to focus in too much on my competitors.

[00:37:49]>> That's why it's a flipping good question because it sort of winds you up, doesn't it? It's like I always want to, you know, I want to be the best. But, you know, that is a very good, but when you're listening to this gang, you're watching this, think about that. It's such a good question that we should all be playing in our mind's eye. Where do we feel our businesses are currently underperforming compared to our competitors? Not the what we're doing better, but what we underperforming at.

[00:38:16]>> You should answer that now, Jim. Pick a business and do it.

[00:38:20]>> Okay. I'm going to do ample storage because that's just come out. I don't think we're embracing technology enough compared to our competitors. I think people want to book in at midnight should they be busy. They want to arrive at midnight and not have to fumble around for their keys. Uh they just want to get in the storage part really easy.

[00:38:37]I think we're underperforming there. Um >> have you just announced that you've bought a new business without actually announcing that you've bought a new business?

[00:38:45]>> Maybe. Um uh I think uh Cafe Delhi I think our competitors are delivering seven days a week and eventually we need to be doing seven days a week because I think price range and convenience really drives people.

[00:38:58]>> Cool.

[00:38:58]>> I'm not going to give anymore because I might have to answer this for the next year, might I? But I I think you know I think we should have honest conversations with ourselves on that stuff. You know are our instructors better than your competitors? I don't want you to answer that live on the podcast. Are you making it easy enough to pay? You know, I think that stuff, ease of payment is such a crucial thing right now. If you haven't got Apple Pay or whatever it is equivalent, and I think lots of businesses don't have that, those little I mean, we had the with with the school, we have this thing called parent pay. You still have to go and get your bloody debit card or credit card until you if the kids are doing something at school like a school trip or something. Still have to manually type in your card details. I just think off you like why can't I just click the then I'll do that tomorrow because I have to go on the Sherlock Hol for your debit and credit card. Do you know why so little I use my wallet now ch I've got an air tag in it just to remember where I last put it. So yeah, I I think look Dean, I don't want you to answer that, but I hopefully you do think of some things. I've given you some answers there. Um Dean, if someone lives in Northamptonshire and they want to go and do a bit of uh BJJ, the child in me, and Muay Thai, is it spelled Mai or Muai? What is this?

[00:40:25]>> Muay Thai.

[00:40:26]>> Muay Thai. Muay Thai. If you want to do some Muay Thai and some BJJing in Northamptonshire.

[00:40:34]Where do people need to go, Dean?

[00:40:36]>> So, we are based in Icelip in uh Northampton Shere. They can go on our website atlas martial arts.co.uk and they can fill out a form for a free trial. Um or they can follow us on all our socials, Facebook, Instagram, and Tik Tok.

[00:40:51]>> Sounds very good. Right. Um it's now time for tomb bowler time, and you're going to play along, Dino. This is a point in the show where Chuds gets the tomb bowler up. There it is. Uh, and he's going to get a number from the tombola, which corresponds to the number of uh, thingamajigs I've got over here in the black folders of death. We're going number 10 today, ladies and gents.

[00:41:11]>> 10. Right now, in here is going to be some facts about a well-known brand or company. Dean, have you seen us play this along >> before on the show? Yeah.

[00:41:19]>> Um, and you have to Chad Styles and James Sinclair does. We got to try and guess the company. Uh, you can play along at home. I've just dropped something there. Apologies. Why is it the black folder of death? Why is it death?

[00:41:31]>> I don't know. The black folder of death because I've always liked it right on this yellow piece of paper. Chance doesn't know. Uh James Sinclair doesn't know. Dean doesn't know. But producer Stevie who puts this all together and very good job on those questions. Well done, Stevie. Right. England's Oh, this is a good one. England's largest wine producer. Oh, do you know I never thought we made wine in this country.

[00:41:50]>> There's a couple of vineyard, isn't there?

[00:41:51]>> Yeah. Yeah. To the degree that I've sort of discovering that we do. Just talking about this uh another little uh I started watching a filming interesting fact or quote of the week here about champagne. Champagne do you have you >> champagne? Yeah. Um do you do you know uh that's a region in France? Did you know that?

[00:42:10]>> No.

[00:42:11]>> So it's a it's a did you know that Dean?

[00:42:13]>> Yeah.

[00:42:13]>> It's a region in France and it has to come from that region to be called Champagne. And I and the margin of the markup on it and basically it was losing money for years and years and years and then this bloke died in 1700 or whatever and his wife his widow took over and built the brand up over the 17 18th00 century um to you know just do it and and um it's it's a fascinating story. So if anyone's bored uh go and check it out.

[00:42:43]>> Really naive question. Champagne there's multiple brands of champagne. No.

[00:42:47]>> Yes. It has to come from the region in France to be called champagne legally.

[00:42:52]>> Do people do that illegally though?

[00:42:55]>> No, I don't think they do because I think >> they stick to that.

[00:42:57]>> I think there's some pretty powerful companies that own champagne companies that would go after you if you said >> this is Champagne but it's not >> from Swindon.

[00:43:06]>> Wow. Okay. Didn't know >> Champagne from Basil.

[00:43:11]>> Did not know that. Fine.

[00:43:12]>> Yeah. So, it's a region in um a region in France. But anyway, now let's talk about English. uh England's largest wine producer manages the other thing is as well you can't stop himself >> with champagne so a bottle of champagne I think it's like 40 to 500 quid isn't it depending on the whatever and I just look at it like perfume it is fascinating the margin on champagne and perfume is huge but there's something about it I was listening to Rory Sland talk about this have you seen him talk about this. He says, "If you give someone a bottle of procco, it sort of in their mind's eye goes, you don't really care about me. If you give them a bottle of champagne, in their mind's eye goes, that person's really made an effort and cares about me."

[00:44:01]>> Isn't that fascinating?

[00:44:04]>> That is what they've achieved, isn't it?

[00:44:08]>> Just really interesting. Like if someone says, "Uh, yeah, I've bought you some cakes from Arts and Spencers or I popped into little." It has the same sort of I just think oh so you know bought me something from little but you bought me some nice chocolate cla from Arts and Spencers. It's funny isn't it? Yeah it is branding powerful right. England's largest let's do this. England's largest wine producer uh manages over 950 acres of vineyards across Kent Sussex and Essex.

[00:44:37]They have plans to expand. It's Brute Rosé. So Brute is equivalent to champagne apparently. That's the So, if you've bringing a champagne out in the UK, you can call it Brute, but you can't call it champagne.

[00:44:50]>> Okay, got it.

[00:44:50]>> Fine. Um, Brute Rosé was served to 650 guests to celebrate British producers alongside the limited edition, The Union, which was created for the royal wedding of William and Kate. Have I mentioned that? I've met Kate's mom and uh bought a business.

[00:45:06]>> Not in a while.

[00:45:07]>> Kate's mom. Uh with 2011 bottles released for sale, net debt, so debt rose significantly reaching 9.2 million at the end of 2024 uh financial year and 11.3 million in um H uh in quarter 1 2025 following an exception sorry sorry net debt rose significantly reaching 9.2 million at the end of 2024.

[00:45:35]The financial year 2025 following an exceptional harvest is expected to make 11.3 million profit. I think that's what that means. So big turnaround. So I don't I don't know any I I know one.

[00:45:50]>> I wouldn't know as big in >> uh I only know Newh Hall. Uh is that the uh uh is that that's the local one in Essics? I'm going to go with that.

[00:46:00]>> Yeah, I know.

[00:46:01]>> Do you know anyone Dean who it could be?

[00:46:03]This is probably the worst topic for me.

[00:46:05]So, I have no idea.

[00:46:07]>> No, this is uh Chapel Down. Never heard of them.

[00:46:10]>> Never heard of them.

[00:46:11]>> Chapel Down, ladies and gents.

[00:46:12]>> Just do the do the stats again. They were in 9 million pounds worth of debt.

[00:46:16]They're going to make >> I'm trying to understand what Ste could be quite wrong here. So, net debt rose significantly to 9.2 million at the end of 2024, but the financial year they're saying they're going to make 11.3 million in 2025 following exceptional harvest. Now, I do know a little bit about this. Apparently, vineyards take a long time to establish. So, you're doing, you know, like >> season after season. Yeah.

[00:46:40]>> You grow a Christmas tree and it's take 10 years before you can cut it down to get most money for it.

[00:46:45]>> Yeah.

[00:46:46]>> It's like a, you know, if you want to build an orchard of apple trees, you're not going to get any apples for a couple of years, maybe 10 years or whatever it is.

[00:46:53]>> Yeah. Very interesting.

[00:46:54]>> Very interesting thing about oak trees.

[00:46:56]I done some research about oak trees this morning.

[00:46:58]>> Oat.

[00:46:58]>> Oak. O. Yeah. Because so my garden, Chad, you've been in my garden, haven't you? I've got these beautiful old trees that surround the perimeter of it. And I sit there and I have my coffee and contemplation in the mornings and I was up at 5:30 this morning and looking at them and I'm thinking, you guys are old.

[00:47:15]I mean, you're older than my house. I live in a 260 year old house. Um, so I researched about how long oak trees live for and die for, and it's it's around a thousand years they can go for. So, and what uh triologists? Well, they're not triologists, are they? Horiculturalist is for plants, but argiculturist is the um is the tree person. My friend James Martin, who definitely is going to hate listening to this, going to hate this.

[00:47:44]>> They grow for 300 years, they live for 300 years, and then start dying for 300 years. And that's what they say about oak trees. I mean, this is >> We're going to have to rename this, aren't we? The interesting fact of the week show. Um, so I thought that was very interesting. Uh, I do love a good old oak tree. I just think I think says English like an oak tree in my opinion.

[00:48:05]Uh, there we go. Uh, Dean, it's been lovely to have you here on the business broadcast. Have you enjoyed your experience with us?

[00:48:10]>> Yes, thank you very much.

[00:48:12]>> Um, from producer Chubley, thank you very much for being on the show. Dean, we're going to rate you now. So, you're going to have to go so we can slag you off. All right. Okay.

[00:48:19]>> Uh, let's do that. Right. It's now time for the rating. Chs, we're going to do the model analyzer as well. Should we do the model analyzer first?

[00:48:29]>> Yeah.

[00:48:29]>> Okay. So, we look at businesses now on the podcast and we break them down into sort of four categories. Um, so the marketing, the management, the margin, and the model in its own right. I don't I don't really like the model. Don't want to sort of I think it's always going to struggle to >> Yeah. The comp the direct comparison to gyms is is real, isn't it? A lot of people start the gym.

[00:48:53]>> Yeah.

[00:48:54]>> A lot of people >> a lot of gyms foul as well. It's a very fickle marketplace, you know, but I like it because it's more of a niche so that people niche stuff. It's very good.

[00:49:04]>> Um, I'm going to give the model five.

[00:49:06]Margins, we didn't really ask about that, but obviously the money that he's pulling out, I give that five out of 10 as well. Management, very difficult to find management for these businesses because you haven't got stickiness in your business. I give that five. The marketing, hard, 20 out of 40 for the model.

[00:49:23]>> What would you do? What would be the first thing you do to tweak the model? I know it's complicated but just a very quick >> what would I do? What would I do? Well, I I would I find I think I would accept that use the four company philosophy.

[00:49:35]This is the company we are today. But number two would be a company that would be much better. I would be thinking about how can I hopcotch that skill set into other stuff.

[00:49:45]>> So you'd close that business down and start something else.

[00:49:48]>> Not straight away. I would be using the cash flow generated to do something that's much more boring. like if I was him, I don't know if I would commercial property. Yeah. I mean, it's funny. It's a sad thing, you know, that company that he said in front of him, you know, the vets practice that he said there. I don't even need to look at his books and I know that they'll be having a better time than him just because it's a better model of business.

[00:50:16]I think that's the whole point of doing this. It should feel uncomfortable, shouldn't it?

[00:50:21]>> It's a shame, isn't it? because obviously he started that business because he wants to run a lifestyle.

[00:50:26]>> The other thing could make it better is if he was passionate about making content. I think there would be a lot of people in a niche audience that would like BJJ and my tire whatever it is.

[00:50:34]>> Yeah, definitely.

[00:50:35]>> But he said he wasn't. He said, you know, he's putting that to the bottom of his list. Whereas me and you, we quite like making content, don't we? So even Sure. Well, don't get me wrong, I absolutely have days, by the way, guys, where I go, I don't want to make a flipping YouTube video, make a podcast or write a newsletter today.

[00:50:51]But I still do really love the process.

[00:50:54]I've very much enjoyed this podcast today. And I know you're sometimes, Chad, you make your street photo.

[00:50:59]There'll be days we go, >> can't be honest.

[00:51:00]>> I'd rather Netflix and chill with the misses tonight or go out for dinner or Yeah. I was uh JB sent me a um uh a podcast. Uh he actually shared it on LinkedIn about this guy that discovered LL CoolJ. Don't know if you've heard of him. He's bloke with a big beard. Uh he's he's doing a lot of podcast rounds at the moment. Very smart guy. I listened to sort of 30 minutes of it and he's very good at making you red hot chili peppers. He produced them.

[00:51:29]Like this is a big music guy, you know, a very well accomplished one of the best in the world. And he just said, he said, you know, I love making music. I love doing all this stuff. Some days I just don't want to. He said, uh I have to force myself to do it. Uh some days, and I think that's part of being human beings. uh if you absolutely do not want to be on camera, you absolutely do not, you know, find that something that you would enjoy once you've got over the the initial thing, then then I think it's going to be very difficult, isn't it, with content, >> you have to have some passion and like the craft of it.

[00:52:02]>> Yeah.

[00:52:02]>> Even like before, this is a little thing, gang. So before we was doing this, I was talking about Ch, we need to add some more jingles on this. Like we need to, you know, but you know, we're not doing this just because we have to do it.

[00:52:14]>> Yeah. Yeah. there's an enjoyment process to it and we want to make it better.

[00:52:17]There there's a craft to it and I think that's so important in content.

[00:52:21]>> Um anyway, hopefully I've answered those questions. Right, let's let's quickly do uh the rating of him as an individual starting with the end of mind. He hasn't done that, has he? He's passionate about his cause. Yes, he absolutely is. Untold amounts of resilience. I do think he has that. They master relationships with people.

[00:52:39]I don't think he's doing enough for that. Commercial awareness. I'm not going to give him that. Uh, innovate so they don't evaporate.

[00:52:47]I don't think he's done that. Master marketing. No. State teaching. Curious.

[00:52:53]But he's better than a three. I think we give him an overall four, which is our most regular store score. Um, it's a four. A few tweaks and they can have much more.

[00:53:04]There you go.

[00:53:05]>> Good show, Chance. I enjoyed that.

[00:53:07]>> Yeah, I like the questions. That was good.

[00:53:08]>> Questions. Very good. If you've got anything uh that you would like us to ask our guests in the questions, send them on to us on Instagram. DM me. Uh I'm James Sinclair Entrepreneur. If >> I actually think just interrupt, if they comment the questions that they think would be better, we would definitely see it cuz your DMs are a little bit crazy.

[00:53:25]Emails are a little bit crazy.

[00:53:26]>> Oh yeah. So if you've got if you're watching this on Spotify or YouTube, hit in the comments some questions that we'd like to do. I was actually thinking how we made that better than we'd live. It is we put all of the questions in a bowl like a raffle.

[00:53:40]>> Yeah. Okay.

[00:53:40]>> And then >> you just love a game, don't you?

[00:53:42]>> Yeah. And then we can pull it out and go, "Oh, what's the one today?" And then it'll be different questions each time because Stevie put about 20 questions in there and it was a whole podcast by the time I got to question number seven. And I I can absolutely see how we can really help people with that because they were I could see his little cogs going, "Yeah, yeah, mine were too."

[00:54:01]>> Right, gang. Uh if you'd like to come to one of our seminars and events, uh we've got loads coming up. You can find out more details about them on james singinclair.net. Next one is buying businesses masterclass. Uh we're doing business breakthrough if you want to get more profitable in your business. We've just done property profits if you missed that, but that'll be coming again next year. And then the big daddy business masterclass. Uh we've got a revamped version of that uh coming uh to uh Country Hotel in Hertfordshire. All details will be on jamesinclair.net.

[00:54:31]Check it out. See you soon. Bye-bye. If you've loved listening to this podcast and you think, "Oh, that's a bit of me.

[00:54:36]I've got some challenges and I'd like my business exposed to the tens of thousands of people that listen to this podcast." Then good news, Captain. You can apply to come on the podcast.

[00:54:44]There's an application form. Just check out the podcast description and we'll see you there to help grow your business.