Research in psychology demonstrates that the only significant predictor of positive therapeutic outcomes is the quality of the therapeutic relationship, specifically the positive rapport and genuine connection between therapist and client, rather than the specific therapeutic approach or technique used. This finding emphasizes that creating a safe, trusting environment where clients feel heard and understood is more critical than any particular method of treatment.
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If I Dump, You'll Dump (w/ Nori Reed)Añadido:
This is a Headgum podcast.
>> Five, four, three, two.
>> Hi everyone.
>> Good morning everyone.
>> We are waking up Los Angeles.
>> That'd be fun to wake up Los Angeles for once.
>> Not really because you know what time that happens? like 4:00 a.m. 5 a.m.
>> Probably have to wake up at 3, get there at 4 4.
>> Uhhuh. You all the makeup you have to do.
>> Not for the radio, though.
>> Oh my gosh, you're right.
>> Did you know it was about radio?
>> Actually, I need to put my phone on do not disturb cuz it's buzzing.
>> Of course, it's buzzing.
>> Yeah. Um, it was my mom. So [ __ ] annoying.
>> Charlie, don't even [ __ ] me.
>> Love her. It's Mother's Day tomorrow.
[gasps] >> Shout out. And I moved my flights basically so I could be there >> amongst other reasons.
>> Well, you know, I didn't know for her. I surprised me >> like that it was important that I see her on Mother's Day.
>> She can be so kind of casual about stuff and like including her birthday. She's like whatever.
>> I was like she's like if you want to come to my birthday party thing then like you can come I guess.
>> And then with Mother's Day she's like >> you're not going to be there. What do you guys usually do?
>> It's like we go to her house and we like sit on the couch and watch Jeopardy.
It's amazing. [laughter] >> Like the perfect [ __ ] experience.
>> There's nothing you like more.
>> No, literally being on my couch with her mom watching Jeopardy. It's like >> like when you go to your mom's apartment, it's like and it's like how was it? You're like it was awesome. Like the the reviews are rave.
>> Yeah. It's like just amazing to be around her and then such also it's like I'm like can be such a [ __ ] while I'm there >> needless to say >> obviously and I'm like that was awesome >> cuz why you feel safe >> you feel safe so you allow that part of yourself to come out good morning Los Angeles five [laughter] >> struggled so much with that >> let's bring in Nory >> I totally >> you know what we should do this is going to be we're going to do >> good morning Nory and then we'll do a countdown and that's when you'll come But first, we'll say our guest is so amazing. We love her so much. She's so funny. She's so cool. It's already been such a blast hanging out and talking.
>> You guys missed a ton.
>> And she has a show coming up and we'll plug this again at the end once you guys Well, I know you already know her, but you know, we're just going to plug it at the end.
>> So, it's June >> 10th.
>> 10th and it's at the Alleion. It's called Nory's Present.
>> Yeah. At the Alleion in Los Angeles, >> literally. and her stand up's so [ __ ] good. So, you're going to want to go to that.
>> She's open. She She did our show here.
>> Yes.
>> A year ago or something.
>> And people love that.
>> People loved it.
>> You want to do it?
>> Yeah. All right. Good morning, Nory. In five, four, three, two.
Good morning.
>> It's hard.
>> It's hard. It's a hard >> Let's not do that anymore. Five.
[laughter] Four. It's just hard.
>> You didn't like it.
>> Well, >> I didn't like it.
>> You didn't like it. But nor >> hi. Sorry.
>> Hi. I loved it.
>> Oh. So, >> so you have to ask. This is like with Mother's Day.
>> Uh-huh. You never know.
>> Assume to know what someone's going to think.
>> Mhm. That's right.
>> Yeah. Someone could be against mothers like [laughter] and that's not Yeah.
>> Hey girl, how are you? Welcome.
>> Welcome to the podcast.
>> Do you have any questions so far? Has everything been clear?
>> Everything's been clear. You know, I there's the amazing exercise that we're going to do. So, I've I've been prepped.
participated.
>> You participated really well.
>> Yeah.
>> And I love your outfit.
>> Thank you.
>> Is like when I see you at stuff, I'm like, "Yeah, I am going to do that."
Like, you're someone who I take stuff from.
>> Well, I think I'm very inspired by you.
And I think we're in a very similar >> We're in a similar I mean, look at us.
We're wearing almost the same thing. Not really, but >> minimal. It's a minimalism and like a a laziness that's chic.
>> Yeah.
>> It's like you both to be playful dressers.
>> It's like playful.
>> Playful and understated.
>> Playful like girly casual.
>> Yes.
>> There's always like a little flippy flare as >> always like a wink.
>> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. Yeah.
>> Right. You're like exactly. So >> you have the Uggs.
>> Uggs. Uh, Uggs are amazing. Uggs are great. I'm literally going I'm Cuz at a certain point of doing standup, you start to just like hate it.
>> Mhm. Mhm.
>> Uh, no.
>> Yes and no. Like I'm like, "Yeah, but like no." But yeah, like >> maybe I'm burnt out. I don't know. But >> are you burnt out?
>> Well, maybe. But basically, like I'm going on stage and I'm Do you Okay, can I start over here? Do you ever like just like not want to do your jokes?
>> Of course.
>> Sorry. That's what I mean. I really get >> you go on stage. You're like, I could I'd rather die than do one of my >> When you're in a place you're like, I really need some new stuff to say.
>> Yes.
>> You're like, "So, I'm dating. [ __ ] [ __ ] >> It can't be that right now."
>> So, I'm literally going on stage and I'm going, "I'm wearing Uggs."
>> Yeah. [laughter] >> And then everyone goes crazy.
>> By the way, I've done exactly this with my Uggs. Literally. Literally.
[laughter] It's like when it's still like >> It's a gimme. They're just like, "Woo!"
>> People go nuts.
>> Yeah. You're like, "So, I'm wearing UGGs right now." People are like, "OKAY, [screaming] >> WOW. What do you think that is?"
[laughter] >> People just love it because it shows you're comfortable. This is my theory on Uggs. My UGG theory. I think it's that like they're slippers and so when you wear them out, you're just like you're projecting this bitchiness of like this is my house.
>> You're like, I'm going to the store and you're like, "This is my domain, too.
I'm casual here as well." You're like, "I don't give a [ __ ] >> I'm cozy. I'm >> cozy." I'm like, when you're in UGGs, you're like shuffling along in the subway and hugs. It's like, yeah, [ __ ] I live here. It takes a level of self-confidence and self- knowing.
>> Exactly.
>> Yeah. You're like, I'm comfy, cozy. I'm basically wearing a blanket, >> literally.
>> And I'm at the store in my PJs.
>> It actually is so true. And sometimes to work, I feel like on a day where I'm like, >> it's a little harder for me to like get there.
>> Like I'm like more like, oh, but I want to like stay in bed and I put on my Uggs. It does feel like you're taking a little bit of the bed with you.
>> Yeah. Exactly.
>> It's the And it's the Bieber of it all, too.
>> Exactly. I love the Bieberness of just like >> the kind of like Justin.
>> Oh, I didn't know.
>> He loves Uggs. He loves slippers.
>> And he loves He's a cozy [ __ ] >> and he's traumatized. So there's like this beautiful like trauma response.
>> Well, he needs like he needs like sensory comfort. [clears throat] Literally >> little guy.
>> He's not in a good place to put on like a hard shoe.
>> He's just not. And >> and we did that to him.
>> I didn't.
>> You didn't?
>> No. I was always very cool with him.
>> I didn't do anything wrong to him, but I was interested in him when he was too young to be famous.
>> I guess I am part of that problem.
>> You are an Ori. Come on. I'm not saying I like [laughter] >> We're like, yeah, >> I only ever listen to his music. I'm like, same.
>> Sometimes I listen to Beauty and a Beat >> on repeat. Wow. [laughter] >> In my car.
>> Wow.
>> Does that go better keep an eye out for Selener?
For her to say wiener in a child song is the crazy. She says when she say >> she says it before Selena >> just Bieber she rhymes wiener with Selena.
>> Selena >> buns out wiener [laughter] >> is the god >> and it's like this is a child.
>> Better keep an eye out for Selener. I mean that's I was really I was listening with Richard to a bunch in the car. What was it? We There was a few punchlines that were making us laugh so hard. She's honestly she should be headlining Netflix as a joke. Not really actually.
I know her politics have devolved kind of monstrously.
>> This is Can I say my like maybe brave or controversial take about her and her political thing? I'm like I'm like yeah like she lost her mind like she gave her mind to us. Like I've been interested in that formulation of like trying to understand like all these like >> rich celebs who were like who were like unbelievably brilliant >> and it's like oh my god it's actually so tragic like you gave your your your genius to us and you don't have it or like you've lost like your sense you know what I mean?
>> I bet like after Jesus died for us he was he kind of like >> went Republican.
>> Yeah. Literally >> like [laughter] he he gave us you know he paid for our sins and he was like he's like kids should >> he gave it to us >> not learn about gay people.
>> Yeah. Exactly. [laughter] >> Okay. So let's just think about that for a second. So this is interesting. So Jesus died >> and but he was telling his genius to us before that.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> And then from his up there he's Republican.
>> Yeah.
>> I [ __ ] with that. And it actually explains a lot.
>> Yeah. It's like how stuff is. He's like so nice. He was so good. And he was like, "I'll kiss anyone's feet, even if they're dirty."
>> It was like a big part of him. Like he loved feet.
>> Yeah. He loved actually like there's a lot of feet in Catholicism as like a symbol.
>> Really?
>> Yeah. Isn't it always like the pope is always washing people's feet?
>> Yes.
>> He's always like, "Next." [laughter] >> There was foot bath time. Come on. There is There was a headline this year from them, which if you're going to read a headline from them, you're going to go, "What is going on?" [laughter] Can I just say that? But he was like, "Pope, >> what's the new Pope Leo?" It's like, "Pope Leo the 15th or whatever washes trans sex workers feet." And it's like, "Uh, yeah, he did. That's he's probably had a boner." Like, "What are you [laughter] talking about?" Like, "Oh, that's so nice." It's like, "I hope she got paid. I hope he got [ __ ] paid."
[laughter] >> She's [ __ ] on the clock. She's like, "What are you talking about?"
>> She's like, "It's 45 for the feet."
>> That's why literally >> That's so [laughter] funny.
>> It's like, yeah, he did. I He was happy as hell. He [laughter] loved it.
>> What are you talking about?
>> Like, >> you know, [clears throat] them >> the headline >> them us.
It's like they >> so many pronouns >> tore with that. Yeah. Literally.
[laughter] >> No, but I'm They're getting I understand. Listen, I'm not naive. I understand >> and you have Thank you.
>> I would never call you naive.
>> Thank you.
>> Of course.
>> But basically like they just like >> I would to challenge you. [laughter] Thank you.
>> I would because I want you to be better, even better than you already are. I want to push you to [snorts] new kinds of knowledge. [laughter] >> I would say my inner child is very naive.
>> Oh, >> and pretty cool. [laughter] No, >> skateboarding or something.
>> She was skateboarding.
>> I was seeing your inner childhood doing a flip on a skateboard.
>> Really?
>> You say cool and you're just like kick flip probably.
>> I did go to Paxon growing up and like I never >> By the way, like I knew that.
>> You knew that. Yeah, I knew that based on your energy. [singing] >> Well, you're like Bay Area.
>> Bay Area. Like I just I grew up in Kentucky, but still I've always had that vibe. Always.
>> Bay Area as an adult.
>> Lived in the Bay Area as an adult. You brought your inner child.
>> My inner child lived in the Bay Are >> But basically like I would go to Pexon and I wanted to wear the clothes, but like I didn't learn I didn't like actually I was such a poser. I didn't learn anything about skateboarding. I just wanted to [laughter] wear the clothes. How satisfying.
>> That's so cute. Well, honestly to me that's adorable because I was so far from that culture. I didn't even know to want to be a poser. Like I I am actually very touched >> by skateboardy type youth. I think it's adorable. Like I just think it's so cute. Like cuz it's like a type of like >> chillerness that's like really like not like toxic to me. Like I feel like it's good vibes among the >> skateboard. One of those things though where it's like because I'm not in like a heterosexual world like >> it it is like DJ where it's like I can tell that there's like battles that have been fought there. Like you would hear that in punchlines all the time like oh and I went home with a a skate a bisexual skater.
>> I know.
>> And I'm like I'm like oh so there is a war happening here. I'm just not part of it. I'm like that's so cute. They're skating.
>> And it's like but you hear girls talk about it. They're like >> skater. It's laden with meaning for them and pain. You know what I mean? Do you guys know about that? Have you had like a problematic >> No. Well, this is I think what I'm saying is maybe skaters.
>> It's just like for me it's all good.
>> I mean there's a lot of like dy kind of skateboarding people, but it doesn't it doesn't to me.
>> Yeah. All good.
>> It doesn't like blay.
>> Depends what you're going to say.
>> On ble on >> climbing.
>> Yeah.
>> Climb away.
It doesn't [laughter] bellay a [ __ ] boyiness.
Actually, I think that's what I'm saying is it's like I actually feel like >> it's like it's like a non-toxic [ __ ] boy or they're going to be of course they're going to [ __ ] boy and not like call or whatever, but it's not toxic.
>> No, it's like they're just too having too much fun in the sky.
>> Like what do you [laughter] want to go skate?
>> It's very like male bonding social. I I just don't know. Like I'm just like I want to make space for these. You just need to make space for these girls that I've heard talk about. They have had a hard time. And so if you have had a hard time as a skateboarder, I see you.
>> There's like And there there is a connection between trans women and skater boys cuz they're more open-minded.
>> So there is this like >> cross not crossover, but like a meeting that does happen. That's interesting.
And they're very open-minded. They're not they're very accepting, but they are [ __ ] boy. So like they're going to they're going to like >> treat you with respect. in a week >> kind of, but then they're not gonna like >> but they're not gonna they're honestly they're just not gonna commit.
>> They're not gonna >> because they just love the board.
>> They just love the board.
>> They love the board.
>> It's so sweet. That part is really It's like you love doing this activity.
>> It's not like you I mean I'm sure there's a lifestyle component that goes part of it, but it's like you like the physical thing of what you're doing.
>> Sounds great.
>> Very hard to one of the attendant things about skater. It's like [laughter] fisheye lens video. They love to document it. Document each other doing it. There's like a and there's a fashion around it as well.
>> I think there is also a real and I've said this on the podcast before.
>> I I I can't do it, but I think it's like the the coolest purest form of transportation is like a board with four wheels and you ride the board. Like I think that's the best use of the wheel we've got. I feel like the car is obviously a disaster and like bikes are cool but it's like there's a lot going on there and I just think it's fun and funny that you can stand on a board and just go forward on it. Like I just think that's so fun. So I wish I could do it >> and I I like that people like it and it it also brings me to surfing >> which is also so cute. Let's get into surfing.
>> And that brings me to surfing surfing and like surfer people they are adorable. Like they love to catch the waves. Yeah, >> it's very spiritual.
>> It is.
>> I know. But I I feel like there's like it's like religion to them like going out. You get it. They worship the ocean.
What else is God?
>> Say that. I mean the ocean, >> right?
>> The ocean.
>> It's like in terms of like God could be two things. God is either the ocean.
>> God is either the ocean or the sun.
>> And I'm team ocean. I think in terms of what God is. Well, is it possible that >> No.
>> Okay, I agree.
>> Wait, what were you gonna say?
>> Well, I was just thinking like the ocean and the moon are like besties.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> So, I was just like getting confused.
>> Mhm.
>> So, the the ocean and the sun probably don't get along.
>> I was just like, do they even know each other?
>> They've heard of each other.
>> They've heard amazing things.
>> They're doing different kinds of work.
>> And the moon, I think, is kind of like like, did you know what the sun said?
And like and it's not always true, but it's like kind of drama.
>> Like why would it just like >> the sun? It's like the sun said he was going to melt you up. [laughter] >> Like why would he say that to me?
>> Burn you up and dry you out and he was just going [laughter] to be rocks.
>> Why would he say way too wet?
>> He said way too wet. Why did he say that? Oceanan's like I if he's going to say that he should just say it to me and I don't I don't It's hard for me to know and judge based on whether or not >> the moon's like you know what that's fine. I'll hang out with the sun in space and I'll hang out with the ocean when I'm with you know what I don't really get how that works [laughter] to be honest with you. But I love to >> play >> play [laughter] um beach boys were huge for me growing up.
[gasps and laughter] >> Yeah, exactly. I loved and that was like >> I mean it was transfixed by their joy, you know. What did they love? They loved driving fast in their cars and they loved surfing. They just loved it.
>> And harmonizing >> and harmonizing harmonizing and they love girls >> and girls.
>> They love girls. They're always they're always kind of like hung up on someone or they want to like someone more than they do or like >> do you think it was toxic or not not toxic? Their love of girls. I don't know.
>> I'm thinking about the songs I know.
>> God only knows what I do without you.
That sounds like someone threatening suicide. That's threatening.
>> You know, I [laughter] there's a few there's a few songs on that album. Do you know the song Caroline No.
>> That's actually abusive. [laughter] >> Do you know the song Caroline No Pet Sounds? That song? Such a good song.
Yeah, Jeff knows that song.
>> Can you sing a little crazy?
>> Well, the first line is where did your long hair grow? Where is the girl I used to [singing] know?
>> Anti-feminist. Literally. Yeah.
[laughter] Where did you lose that happy glow?
Oh, Carolina. [singing] >> A woman aging, >> right?
>> Literally. But I mean, that song is a little toxic. And honestly, Brian Wilson, his thing, especially in that album, is he's like pretty disaffected with the world in a way that's sometimes kind of charming, but like every song on that album and is he him being like, >> "I went out to a party, couldn't [ __ ] figure out what to say. [ __ ] my actual life."
>> On Pet Sounds.
>> Yeah. On Pet Sounds. But then it's funny because the the the tone is like >> Yeah, exactly. And that like and all the songs are like but then I think what happened is like he kind of more and more like as he got I don't totally know but as he got like older and developed as a songwriter he started to explore more he has one of my favorite songs um sloop John B which is an amazing song.
Do you know that one? Yeah, >> the whole album that and that whole song is like >> basically like the premise of it is his grandfather takes him on a boat trip and it's just like a disaster [laughter] >> and it's so funny. It's like he's like he's like first of all I got a little seasick then the cook got sick and she [laughter] he started throwing up.
>> Wait a minute >> 1% >> right by the way >> the cook got sick. Yeah, we didn't have caviar [laughter] basically. And then he's like the first mate. I love the song. It's just every song on the album is like him being he has another song I just wasn't made for these times.
>> And that song that has this big refrain that goes sometimes I feel very sad and he repeats it a hundred times. I know about well I listen to Pet Sounds by the way like I'll put it on from time to time and by the way I've missed all of this [laughter] >> but the one I have locked in with is that's not me and it is very melancholy and it's like >> every he's just like >> that's not me.
>> Yeah. What is it? It's like I had to prove that I could make it alone but that's not me. It's like everything he wants to do could do. And then it's like his parents are like you're not acting like yourself and he's like whatever.
Like >> yeah, >> he's like he like I had a dream that I packed up and moved to the city.
>> Yeah, >> my social life wasn't so pretty.
Something just disappointment.
>> You [clears throat] just That's the whole thing.
>> It kind of reminds me of like when I think about the like vibe of the album of what they're saying, I think about like Holden Cfield vibe.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Like kind of just like >> like a young male disaffected. He's like damn like >> [ __ ] everything sucks, >> right?
>> Yeah, that is kind of the vibe. I think in a song it's so fun, but like on a date I think it'd be so bad.
>> Oh my god. Yes. I actually think that's so astute. It's like so often like the things we like and the people we like and respect in our artists. And actually this can happen literally. Sometimes you're like this person is amazing. I love their weird [ __ ] sensibility.
And then you'll meet them in person.
You're like your weird sensibility is really really difficult.
>> Weird. [laughter] It's a weird sensibility.
>> It's like you know what? I'm finding this person have a really weird sensibility. Actually, I think that's me.
>> No, not to me. Honestly, I don't know.
Cuz I'm a little I I don't think I'm >> Maybe sometimes, by the way, me too.
>> I'm like on some spe I don't know where I don't want to be I don't want to be ner like [laughter] >> you know what's going on. You're gay.
>> Obsessed. Obsessed. [laughter] >> But I do feel like people maybe you guys I don't know if you relate to this, but like as a comedian >> when people like uh like who are fans like want to have a conversation and you're just like thank you. Like I don't know. It's a tough position. Weird.
>> This is my >> policy on that is I'll like take it accept it warmly as much as I can and then like kind of as quickly as feels right pivot to something else that is shared. So >> as in like h wait like >> I love this restaurant that we're both in.
>> Wait, do you like blue?
>> Smart.
>> Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. Wait, you have hands, right?
>> Right.
>> Oh my god. I love >> that's flirting. You can >> that's in our list of of topics that are inherently flirty.
>> It goes hands. Anything related to hands, hand signs, regional accents, anything that's like you say water, >> you know, it's like all right, just have sex with each other. Yeah. And wait, there was another one, Charlie. I added >> phone screen something.
>> It's wallpaper.
>> Wallpaper. Phone screen.
>> Phone wallpaper.
>> That's right. It was like commenting on what someone's phone wallpaper is. It's like just blow them.
>> Yeah.
>> You know what I mean? like [laughter] you are acting so [ __ ] desperate. I'm talking to myself >> and I think it's interesting because and really look out for this. It doesn't seem that obvious, but if you're ever like and I know you did this to me the other day, but it's like we've we had already been hanging out for like 80 hours. [laughter] >> I'm fine.
>> Okay.
>> Or we'll see. Maybe not. I'm actually nervous.
>> Do you know what I'm talking about? The wallpaper. I mean, you said you were like, "What's on your phone screen?"
>> Oh, yeah. That was fine of me to say.
>> No, it's fine. I'm just saying like it doesn't count.
>> Oh, yeah. It definitely doesn't count.
like awkward. [laughter] >> It's actually partially awkward because I like lost the thread for a second.
>> It's not >> I was remembering that I had to shout out someone which is Danny at the restaurant Dino in Fort Green. Let me use the bathroom. And when I asked you was like, I'm a huge fan of the pod and I really needed >> Dino and Fort Green. I thought I thought it was Dino.
>> I know. Me, too.
>> That makes more sense. So, it's an Italian restaurant.
>> Yeah, Dino. And by the way, about dinosaurs.
>> My childhood cat was named Dino. So, >> do you want to shout the cat out or?
>> Yes. Shout out to Dino. Oh, I love Dino.
Black cat. So, >> we don't even know where Dino is.
Probably in Cat Heaven.
>> Oh, >> yeah.
>> That's sad.
>> Yeah.
>> It's okay, Nory.
>> I thought death is sad.
>> Yeah, it can be tricky. I'm sorry.
You're >> right. I was being toxically positive.
>> Yeah. [laughter] >> Like, >> oh, I'm so sorry. It's sad. Okay, let me just say this about the wallpaper.
>> Mhm.
>> This is an old idea for the podcast, so sorry to repeat myself, but what else do I have? So basically, it's funny because once you notice that when you find yourself wanting to comment on someone you're getting to know's wallpaper that you probably want to have sex with them or vice versa, it becomes even more interesting that when you're in a relationship, you make that person your background sometimes because it's basically [clears throat] like a wedding ring.
>> Yes.
>> You're being like, "Don't even [ __ ] try and play with me." And and what we I remember what we found too is that it's like the two things we talk about that come up a lot with flirting are hands and phone wallpaper.
>> So it's literally like wedding ring, wedding ring. You know what I mean?
>> It's like placing on the hand which is such a sight of flirting. It's like the only other thing that I could imagine it's like you could like >> it would be like if someone got a tongue piercing for you. [laughter] >> You know what I mean? If like the tongue piercing was a sign that you were like betrod.
>> Oh, that's a cool >> because maybe like mouth is another like kind of entry way into flirting but not really. You don't comment on someone's mouth, so never mind.
>> It's cool. It didn't work.
>> I gave it a shot.
>> This is just a laboratory. Let's go back to your thing. You're brilliant.
>> Brilliant.
>> That's so >> Is there a camera even looking at me?
>> You nailed it.
>> But is it true? Like she's on Oh. Oh, we're sharing it.
>> Yeah.
>> Nor ends right there.
>> Okay, [laughter] >> that's great.
>> What did we just do?
>> Smile at the camera.
>> It's interesting. Uh, this is filmed.
>> I'm sorry. [laughter] I'm >> Wait, what the >> You're like, we're being recorded.
>> Wait, this is a [laughter] podcast. I thought you guys asked me to hang out.
>> Oh my god.
>> All sitting in the same. And we have one friend who were like, why don't you talk like an eighth of the time? [laughter] >> Wait, what does that remind me of? Oh, in a writer's room. M >> like like being in a room and being like okay >> like when you're starting in a room and they're like so you because you're like new should talk like less of the time.
>> Yeah. And [clears throat] you're like just trying to calculate and it's like well >> oh my god >> in a given conversation which is like what that a writer's room seems like. I'm like I really have to work to not be taking up 90. Yeah. You know, like, and so I was like, it was so funny to try and like calculate down like it's like so five out of the five, six times you want to say something in a minute, just >> don't >> draw a circle on your paper [laughter] or whatever.
>> That's funny. What's everybody's phone wallpaper?
>> Do we want to flirt?
>> Yes, let's flirt.
>> Yeah.
>> Mine is our friend Jacob Greenberg went to school went to elementary school with Ariana Grande. You ever met Jacob?
>> No. Yep. I love him.
>> And so they have like they were next to each other in the yearbook. So I have like a little screenshot of them together.
>> Grande and cool.
>> Is her last name really Grande?
>> Yeah.
>> Oh my god.
>> She's Italian.
>> I thought it was going to be something like >> a little bit of a witch. [laughter] >> Silver blank.
>> What's your um wallpaper?
>> Uh mine is of a dog named Charlie who I used to live with in the Bay Area. He was a pit >> and uh we would uh he it was like the house dog but he slept in my bed every night cuz we had a really nice connection. Yeah.
>> Are you like an animal connector?
>> I love animals so much. Not to be not to brag. Yeah. They love me. They like >> I think that is the sign of a good person. Animals [laughter] come like come to me and like kind of >> I believe this as well.
>> That's adorable.
>> Yeah.
>> Do you have one?
>> No. I want a cat. I do. I need to get a cat. What's like the hold up low key?
>> Uh I that's a great question. I need to do it. I need to just do it. I can't >> I actually have a cat. So there's this really great rescue in LA called Friends of Normie and they have this this adorable cat named Raina who's available for adoption as we speak.
>> I kind of laugh so fast.
>> Oh my god.
>> Maybe you take a look at her.
>> Okay. So I think we should take this opportunity unless you don't want to to talk through actually why you kind of low-key don't want a cat >> to see whether or not you're going to adopt Raina.
>> Yeah. I it's quite simple. I just >> I I feel like there's this narrative in my life of people in my life, okay, >> that I talk about moving all the time.
>> So, I feel cautious because I feel like at this point there is a >> uh a false narrative that has been created that I'm talking about moving.
>> Okay. And the cat stuff is is attached to the moving stuff cuz I'm like if I don't I'm like oh I I don't think in my current place I would like a cat to live there. It's kind of small.
>> Uhhuh.
>> And and I'm like if I but I want to move.
>> So let's just move apartments, not move.
Like >> I remember talking about this.
>> Oh my god. So who's perpetuating the narrative?
>> So many people. [laughter] Because I'm like >> it's normal to be like having a thing that you talk about all the time because it's in your head. It's something in the shape of your life forces you again and again to talk about how you need to move apartments. Like >> what makes it worse and not to bum everyone out cuz this is kind of like sad. Sorry. Can you be sad on this pod?
>> Yes.
>> Okay.
>> We follow the flow of Yes. Well, basic like I was looking last year and I was really excited >> and this is by the way to move in LA like not like to move somewhere else >> in LA and um I was looking to move and I was going to get a cat when I moved >> and then >> the government took my passport [laughter] >> cuz of the trans stuff like they do you guys remember that?
>> So I was renewing my passport and they took it and they took my birth certificate >> and they just kept it >> and there was no idea of when I'd get it back. It was so scary.
>> Oh my god, that's awful. And so I like had to fly to Nashville, >> Tennessee, cuz I'm from Tennessee. And I had to go to the courthouse and beg for a birth certificate essentially.
>> And um it took them 8 months to send it to me and there's no way to forward it.
So I was physically be at my address cuz there's no way to get it.
>> Yes. Right. And you can't move and be like, "Hey, forward this mail." So, I'm in a situation where I have my friends kind of like just like lightly kind of ribbing me being like, "You're always saying you're going to move, but I didn't want to like it's just too much to get into." So, I'd be like I'd [laughter] be like, "You know me."
>> The government the government took my passport.
>> Yeah. [laughter] >> Like not for reasons that are personal and not political.
>> I didn't really want to get into it. So, it's just like honestly, thank you for sharing. And it's like I really get why it's like you you were you really your hands were tied. It wasn't time for you to get >> cash. Do you have the Do you have the birth certificate?
>> I have the birth certificate. I have my passport. So now I'm ready. I'm like, "Yeah, okay. It's time to move again."
>> Okay, it's time to move again. It sounds like that maybe speaks to like there's also like like you there's an insecurity in your own well-being and then so it's intense to take on the well-being of something else.
>> Yeah.
>> Is that maybe part of it?
>> Well, no.
>> Great. No. I'm glad we talked about that. [laughter] >> Just a guess.
>> I'm really sorry you had to go do that.
That's horrible.
>> It's Well, it's just it's like cuz like my friends are comedians, so they're going to be like a little >> like edgy. And so they're just like literally being like like you like you dumb. You're always trying to move you idiot. [laughter] I'm just like, "Yeah, like just >> you know me." [laughter] Yeah.
>> Okay. That is seriously crazy because it's like you need to be able to complain to the people in your life about like the surface level problems, but it's like if they're connected to this like really really more like like deep rooted issue in your life, you're like, um, don't make me defend myself by laying out all my [ __ ] guts.
>> I don't lay on my guts.
>> Yeah, >> literally.
>> I mean, there's of course there's like close friends who I'm obviously talking about this nonstop, right? I'm just talking about like >> it's like your party chatter someone's like oh you're always saying that and you're like do you want the party to have a different vibe for a second?
>> Yeah it's it is my be when I was looking I was like asking on Instagram I see >> in a very public way and that's what started kind >> it entitled people to be like why are you always look you know like why are you looking or like have you heard of Zillow like one person was like have you heard of Zillow and I'm like what the [ __ ] of course I know what Zillow is.
>> Oh my god.
>> Of course I know what Zillow is. Are you dumb?
>> It's just that you people have >> That's [ __ ] annoying. Like when cuz the thing with asking on Instagram is it's like it would be more fair game to make fun of except it legit works better than anything else.
>> Of course. Like literally >> that's the only reason aside from career aspirations to have Instagram is to go on it.
>> I do this constantly. Does anyone have a car I can use for four months? And everyone says, "Yep."
>> Mhm.
>> I have a huge problem. I have a car. I need someone to drive it for 4 months.
It's like I'm so glad we're talking right now.
>> No, literally it works so well. And it's so funny cuz what'll happen is you'll post like an ask and you'll get like 10 people making fun of you for it and then like three people who are like, "Yeah, that's actually amazing for me." You know what I mean? Like it'll be like, "Hi, I'm like I I need like an AC. Like, does anybody have one they're just getting rid of?" And some and you get a hundred people like, "Oh my god, just buy one. Like you're so stupid." And someone is like, >> "That pisses me off." And people are like, I actually am getting rid of one and it's really stressing me out that I have to like transport it out of my apartment. And I'm like, perfect. I'll come over. I'll do it.
>> My grandmother passed. This is her AC.
>> It's too sentimental.
>> I can't even.
>> She wanted a gay guy to have it.
[laughter] >> Wow.
>> There is a special place in hell for people that don't understand that you're reaching out to a network >> for support. I don't It really cuz there there are those people out there that judge it.
>> And I think that is so capitalistic and weird.
>> I agree. And I I feel like on in I feel like it's so silly to actually like you can kind of like eh this is corny and stuff on Instagram, but like to actually feel judgmental about the way someone acts on Instagram is berserk because it's like >> what are we all doing on there? Like it's like the way anyone like I feel like in college like I remember people being like so eye rolly about people starting to post in kind of like comedy ways and it's like >> what and then people now are be like I don't want to make reals. It's like yes obviously it's so embarrassing but it's like >> who cares?
>> None of us want to be doing any of this.
It reminds me a little bit of a thing that comes up to me like you know when people have a wedding you're presented with all these choices about what you want to be which obviously like and those choices are supposed to kind of manifest your values and so people either like they want a traditional wedding whatever or they're like I don't sometimes people position themselves against like the values of a traditional wedding and they're like I don't care about weddings but then that means they have to make all these other alternative choices. They're like, I don't want to do it in a chapel or whatever. I want to do it in a actually a cool restaurant and we're going to have this kind of food and we're going to do this kind of thing and it's every choice is like in reference to like the other normative choice. But actually, >> one way to handle a wedding if you genuinely don't really care about it is you just say like, I'm just going to do the complete normal thing. I will take the normal regular wedding package, not make any choice because I actually don't give a [ __ ] about it either way. and like choosing >> of like personalizing every single >> right which then actually just involves you in this huge way because it's in relation you've like defined yourself in like the inversion of the thing whereas if you just do like regular like yeah whatever flowers like I don't know probably like whatever ones you have like I'll take whatever >> I just chugged your water [laughter] I'm so sorry >> go for it >> what was it what were we talking about before that I felt like connect is hard to take in [laughter] when someone says it to you >> dude I was What did you say, Charlie?
>> What was that in connect? What was >> that was about? If I had to put my finger on it >> like doing like trying like being like I'm not doing the normal thing, right?
>> Instagram. Instagram. Right. Right.
Being like a [ __ ] Instagram. Like I'm going to do it in this like totally different alternative way. And it's like you're still actually giving a lot of like credence to it and like you're really thinking about like what this can be. And maybe like a chiller relationship to it is just like having uncritically doing like the normal thing with it. Yeah.
>> You know what I mean, >> right? Playing with classics, right?
>> Here we go. Here we go. Satellite radio.
>> Two ideas.
>> Oh, yeah. Should we do it?
>> That's nice. Yeah.
>> Let's do this thing.
>> Okay. So, um, we're going to give ours to you.
>> To me?
>> Yeah. And then >> and then I'll take yours.
>> Okay.
>> And I'll have I'll be more passenger princess.
>> Mhm.
>> Um, why don't we start with one of ours?
We'll show you how it's done.
>> Yeah. [laughter] >> And by the way, haven't you been on our podcast? Oh, no. We've done the live show.
>> Live show.
Is this anonymous or do I say who?
>> You can say who.
>> Um, let's try and be anonymous about it and then whoever steps up to answer.
>> That'll be the big reveal.
>> Fun.
>> That's We don't normally do that. That's fun.
>> Okay.
>> It's going to be really fun.
>> So, I have an idea here.
>> Mhm.
>> It don't [music] take much.
>> All right. Wow. [laughter] >> Surprise. Um, this is >> Charlie.
>> This is my idea. It don't take much. And this is about how when you're dancing um you can dance it dancing in unison and it can be the simplest thing ever is so fun and like impressive and exciting.
Yes.
>> Like if you're dancing with someone and you just like kind of match the simple >> going back and forth in the same way.
>> It literally looks like you're like So do you guys practice like [laughter] >> Yes.
>> Like that's all it takes is like you swaying with someone. So true.
>> It's like movement in unison.
>> It's crazy.
>> Is just intuitive.
>> It's just intuitive. It's amazing.
>> It's such a trick.
>> It's such a trick. It's like so revvelatory. You're like, how do you guys And like you know what I love? It's like movement in unison, same direction.
Maybe like a slightly different, you know, >> different flare like slightly, but like it's just dazzling.
>> It's so dazzling.
>> I'm always wanting a little bit more of that when I'm dancing out with people.
I'm like, listen, let's get a rhythm going and let's like kind of >> It's like let's follow each other. Let's see what we can make happen. And like I >> we did that last night.
>> Yeah, we did.
>> We did.
>> This is something I know that we do.
>> But we But then there was one time where I was trying to switch up the rhythm like crazy. Do you know what I'm talking about?
>> Yes, I remember.
>> It was annoying.
>> I thought it would work better that it did.
>> It wasn't annoying. We just couldn't quite catch it. This was for like a minute.
>> Maybe.
>> What was the move that you were trying to like get everyone to do?
>> It wasn't everyone.
>> I really don't like when everyone does something in unison. It's actually a pet peeve of mine.
>> Like flash mobs.
>> Yes. [laughter] And like I feel like sometimes when I'm dancing and there's there's some there's this really fine line between like and it's a similar line to many fine lines like that are between like you know meeting someone where they are and kind of like mocking.
>> Mhm. where like sometimes you feel like you're dancing and then like someone like joins you in what you're doing and and it feels like kind of like additive and fun and sometimes it feels like someone's copying you to kind of like >> like make a joke about the dance move you're doing.
>> Do you know what I'm talking about?
>> Oh, it's like more of a mocking feel >> a little bit. Like sometimes there's a feeling not in a mean way but of like haha that's a funny one.
>> Right. Exactly.
>> And it's like >> you're like I wasn't >> you know I was expressing myself.
>> Yeah. [laughter] Like I wasn't doing it as like this one wasn't a joke. It's not a joke.
>> But I don't want to like say that to like if anyone's listening that to this who I dance with and and you guys are included in that like I mean I hope we have the pleasure one day. Nori. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Absolutely.
>> Oh, that's going on my list. [laughter] >> The LA bucket list. Dance with Nori.
>> If you're in town, it's a must must must.
>> See, that's what I'm worried about. So, it's like, you know, it's a fine line, but basically, I think if it's more than one person doing the same move, it can feel like >> Mhm.
>> it can it just freaks me out.
>> Anyways, what was the move?
>> It was kind of like going back and forth or something and then I was trying to be like staying on one side like >> Yeah.
>> This is actually a problem I have with my younger sister where like we would kind of get into like a rhythm growing up sometimes and then I would switch up the rhythm >> and kind of be like, "You're off." And she'd be like, "You changed it."
>> Yeah. That sounds like it could be a family dynamic.
>> It's a family dynamic. A >> metaphor in the family.
>> You're off. You changed it.
>> You changed it.
>> Uhhuh.
>> But you changed it.
>> Wow.
>> Lately, I've been getting schooled.
>> Mhm.
>> It's cool.
>> Mhm. It's good for you.
The thing with the dancing in unison is like if it is uncoreographed, >> it you you have to kind of be doing one thing for a while unless you're with some real experts.
>> That's right. It's true.
>> It's like you really you have to be like left right [laughter] left right left right left right adding hand left right left right hand hand doing different thing [laughter] doing >> you know those videos where it's like a dance group and they're like >> they one of them can't see everyone else and they're like can they learn can they know what dance we're referencing by the rhythm >> ka kaka boom boom boom and the person's like ka boom boom boom and they're like yeah it's awesome so You know, it's like I was so into Cat's Eye cuz of how they danced and then it all went wrong.
>> It went wrong just because of all the drama with Meno. [snorts] It's really hard for me to get fully behind them that she left.
>> Do you know what's going on?
>> I'm not in the I'm not in the loop, but it sounds so dramatic.
>> Yeah. You know, >> I'm remembering that you have therapy training right now.
>> Yeah.
>> Cuz you're you're taking it >> Yeah.
>> You're following his lead. You're taking it slow. So what's like that you're what happened there? Like you trained to be a therapist like >> So then were you doing it?
>> We started practicing where we would like split into groups or pairs actually >> and I didn't like it cuz it's [laughter] like the people were so boring and you have to just like >> you have to be so empathetic >> and the person I was paired with her name was Michelle and she was like a trust fun. [laughter] Yeah.
last name. No, I don't know. I forget her last name.
>> But um we were we were >> you did it with your with your fellow students. You would pair up and do therapy on each [laughter] other.
>> The professor said it's our first time.
Be like, "Don't be too much cuz we're just learning."
>> She rings the bell. Michelle bursts into tears.
>> And [laughter] I'm just like, >> she rings the bell.
>> And she goes, "I was a preeie."
And I was like, [laughter] >> "No." And >> no, Michelle, don't say that. She she was like, "I was so small." And then she said, "My life's purpose is preeie justice." Um, which I found to be offensive somehow, I guess, cuz like there's so many groups of people that >> I'm curious. I'm like, what does that mean? I >> agree. How did it impact her? Like was she like having >> she's so small?
>> And I was so put off by it. The next week I dropped out.
>> No. [laughter] >> I was just I was like I something clicked and I was like, I don't want to do this. I get what you're saying cuz you're like, so the idea of this would be like going there with someone, whatever they bring up.
>> Real talk, Michelle is wealthy. So it's like if you have a a practice, >> you have to have a number of wealthy clients to fund your practice. Like if you're seeing like the trans kid who's poor, like what and you like want to see those people, >> someone needs to subsidize that.
>> Someone has to subsidize it and it's going to be >> you need people who are paying out of pocket. Michelle full Michelle P. You're like, I don't have the >> I don't have the I can't like like the tech evil tech guy. So many of my friends cuz I'm still friends with so many of my classmates >> and like the people who sub sub that's a hard word subsidize their practice are all evil tech people. So they're boring.
They're >> and then they're like I just feel bad cuz I'm evil and they're to be like right that must feel bad.
>> That's so hard.
>> That's hard that you feel bad cuz you're evil. Do you feel like if it weren't for the logistical like like the the the practical way you would have to do it that you don't agree with you would be doing you would want to have a therapy practice right now?
>> Real talk. I I've been joking on stage about like pivoting cuz like the industry is so bad and I have like those credits. So I'm like I might as well just finish it and like >> totally >> do that maybe.
>> That's so interesting. So you you still kind of think of it. I like it. I really like um psychology and therapy.
>> Those have been my favorite jobs. Like when I've worked in counseling that I've really enjoyed those.
>> You did. So did you work in it and then go to and then you were like I'm actually >> I told people they have HIV.
>> Wow.
>> And I was so good at it. You guys is that bad?
>> No. I was great at it.
>> That's a real skill needs to do.
>> I held space really well. So, like that's a really like I feel like that's a different type of work than like a being in like a practice where you're like slowly like getting something out of someone. You're like >> in this crazy live moment. Yeah. Like do you like that?
>> But I would see clients long term cuz we had this funding for >> um for like short-term therapy.
>> Oh, cool.
>> So, I would literally see clients for like months.
>> Wo.
>> Yeah.
>> And then you were like, "Okay, I'm going to do this even more." And then you actually leveled itself as this like transformative program. It was a spiritual it was like an east meets west spiritual psychotherapy program.
>> That's cool.
>> And they kept being like transformation transformative. And there was a certain point where I was like oh like I'm trans >> like I can just do like let me just do this >> on my own. You're like, I'm drawn to the idea of transformation, right?
>> Like I want to shepherd a transformation in the world.
>> Yes.
>> It started to click for me where I was like, "Oh, I just I want to Oh, I'm trans."
>> Like this can be a personal journey. I actually don't need to.
>> I don't want to listen to Michelle.
>> This has nothing to do with Michelle.
[laughter] >> But I do think like literally I do think therapy at least is something that's like I know a bunch of people who get into it and really love it later in life. Like that's like >> how many of like my mom's friends or friends moms like in their 40s or 50s like found it >> and and like do it and are like locked in and engaged with it and really liking it.
>> Something I love about it. Um real talk.
I'm just going to keep saying real talk.
Isn't that fun?
>> Because whenever you say real talk, it's like a pleasure center in my brain where I'm like I'm about to hear something.
>> I know. I'm like I'm like okay.
>> Real talk.
>> Real [laughter] talk. Everything else I've been saying is a complete lie.
>> I assume. I assume.
>> Yeah. real talk is like the industry that we work in like aging is like the worst thing that can happen to you.
>> And it delights me that in therapy, the older you get, the wiser you are, the more skills you have, the more you start to mentor people, which is actually money cuz that's a big part of their business is then you start to mentor younger therapists cuz they that's built into the program. They have to have mentorship, right?
>> So, it's like I don't know. I'm like, "Oh, great. I get to like age." It's very like um >> and it's like it's it's designed for that.
>> It's designed for that, >> right? That's so like you could like see this whole thing with all this growth in front of it. You're like, "Oh, this could become more and more and more."
>> As opposed to like, "Oh my god, the window is closing. I need to get as much of this."
>> You're like a gymnast. You're like, "My life is over."
>> Right? You're like 22 and you're like, "It's done. I've lost my flexibility."
>> Um my mom is a therapist, FYI, and she is in her most stride right now. I feel like she's like the most like specialized and like into her specific little pocket and like she feels like such an expert. It's like really cool.
>> What's her specialty?
>> She does she has been doing couples forever, but now she's getting really into like family therapy stuff. So, she'll do like >> larger like she'll do like parents and adult kids.
>> If Ora has couples therapy, she should do family therapy on Showtime.
>> Really? It's It's so cool.
>> Yes.
>> Looking at it.
She's like, "How could you ever do work like that on camera?" I'm like, "I know, girl, but I really think they're doing it."
>> Well, because they I think they film we only see like 10% so much of it hours and hours.
>> And I genuinely understand being like like it's so I feel like, you know, when I'm saying to friends like, "You should go to therapy, like this would help," or like this person really needs to go therapy or whatever. It's like it's it's actually so daunting that it it couldn't matter more who you go to.
>> Yes.
>> You know, like it's >> it can it can be all the diff the difference between like genuinely a transformative experience versus like just kind of like pedalling your wheels and being like I'm I'm never going to change. I'm never going to be better and I'm in therapy.
>> Okay, real talk. real talk here is um I studied psychology in college and like the one thing that stayed with me is they did like this mega study where they just like they took all the there's a name for it but I forget what it is where they do like a >> mega like megalodon >> oh like meta >> meta analysis meta analysis thank you they did a meta analysis of like all these studies >> beautiful two-hander >> and the only predictor of a good therapeutic outcome it wasn't they they like they like studied is it is it like a gender match Is it a race? Is it a match? Is it like in person? Is it like if it's The only predictor of a good outcome was if there was a positive rapport between the two people.
>> If they just liked each other.
>> That was the only only predictor.
>> Interesting.
>> Yeah. Like like if if you don't like like you have to >> that makes so much sense.
>> And it sounds so like simple and like duh.
>> But like literally it's not the therapeutic model cuz they were like they're like is it Freudian? Is it is it cognitive CBT? No, no, no. It's just like if you like each other.
>> That's always what it's felt like to me where I'm like all the rand It's like mostly the thing that has worked for me in therapy is just being around someone who like seems convincingly enough that they like me and I like them and respect them enough to like have that be something and then it like that just builds your self-esteem.
>> Like you're just in it with them and you're like, "Oh my god, like this person keeps saying like this nice stuff about me." So not nice stuff but is like >> helpful stuff. helpful stuff and is present with me and like nice is in like they believe in my capacity for like growth and betterment and so I like them and I'm just going to believe them.
>> Yeah. Like that makes so much sense.
>> The therapeutic term is good working relationship.
>> Yeah. You know, this comes up. Actually, I think we've both talked about this in our own work, non-comdy work, cuz I'm a tutor and Natalie was a nanny. And there have been times where I'm like, >> well, really recognizing myself like I can't do a good job with this kid because like I just am finding them annoying.
>> And like that is not like it's just not a good vibe for a kid to be around.
>> No. And it's like if I don't believe if I'm if I'm getting frustrated by their like struggle and their inability to like whatever or their way the way they work then it's like that will >> like that energy will be present and they will feel it and they will not really be able to improve. And you've said the same thing about nanning where you're like if I'm really annoyed by a kid and I don't like them >> then it's like it is so awful to know that a kid is around that all the time.
>> I can't believe it. It's like it's not it's just not fair actually. So there have been times where I'm like you know what >> I can't really do this or I just like I'm just not doing a good job. And then there are times where I'm like oh I like >> like really gel with this kid and sometimes it's like and they're really struggling and they're not doing well but like I I like get it.
>> Yeah.
>> Then there times where it's like they're doing amazing and I'm like this rocks.
Something that's confusing to me is like I feel like the therapist I like the most had the best working relationship with.
>> It was because I thought she was like talented.
>> Mhm.
>> Like is it like a chicken or the egg kind of thing where it's like you have a good working relationship because >> you trust them.
>> They're getting through to you. Like I didn't like her until she was >> Yeah. That's based on >> it could have gone in either direction.
Absolutely.
>> Right. You saying good working relationship is like that also that is like that's not like a random chemistry thing. That's like I mean maybe there's some degree of that but there also is just like >> a good therapist will be better at developing >> are they someone that can make you feel listened to, heard, safe?
>> I think safety is like a huge part of that.
>> Yes.
>> Yeah.
>> I've been listening to a lot of Esser Pro. Do you ever do that?
>> No.
>> I have you do do you do this?
>> I not No.
>> Oh my god, I'm so in with this [ __ ] Do you ever do it, Jeff?
>> Uh, no.
>> What in the [ __ ] [ __ ] You're alone.
I'm all alone here. I love it. I mean, honestly, I think it's like sometimes it feels like it's a one-off session every time.
>> It's like not like couples therapy where you're like following people and it's like obviously like that that has limitations or whatever, >> but it shocks me what like comes out about like people will start off saying one thing, you know what I mean? Like someone will be like, "I'm really worried because like I really like want to get married." And then it's like there was this one episode with someone who was like, "I want to get married. I don't know if I ever will." and like my sister's getting married and it's like really triggering for me and then it became this totally other thing about like how they grew up in this crazy way and you're just like oh my god like everyone's going through so much and she asked really interesting questions and she's also a cuckoo nut >> that's her bra she's a little bit of a cuckoo nut >> that's what I learned in therapy school is like the people who want to be therapists are crazy people >> like there's a re there's like a reason >> it's also like you are invested in the project of like not being so crazy and feeling better and feeling more grounded and often the labor ator is yourself.
>> No, literally.
>> I mean, >> yes.
>> T >> I would be not surprised if that is something I end up doing some kind of counseling >> because I spend so much of my time in my life being like, let's try to be a little less crazy, buddy.
>> And then >> and I love actually when I can do it with pe with other people. Like I like being also it's nice cuz you're like I'm a little less sensitive about it cuz it's me.
>> I was I was a SAT tutor in Marin. Oh, really? It's like rich >> enclaves. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> And it was I would go to their like mansions as like a >> trans woman. It was just the weirdest.
>> Yeah. That's >> weirdest experience because the parents would never meet me. It was through a company.
>> So they open the door and it's just me >> and they're like if they're like hyper liberal then it's kind of like >> that's a huge >> Yes. Like cuz I think they're writing >> I think the kids are probably like writing their essay about me probably.
[laughter] >> Kind of like it's like my trans But but sometimes my trans tutor >> but sometimes it would be kind of like a >> like you're a tutor like like they don't I think they it's like trans like sex work. I don't they're just going to like what are you going to teach my kidd parents of the kids you're ting so stressed out >> at its best I think it's like oh no I was talking to someone else who I was like trying to get into this or like like they it can be like a patronage thing like I have families where it's like it's clear to me that part of the work is not just like literally teaching their kids math or whatever it's like doing that but then also modeling like a certain kind of orientation towards schooling and also they like me enough that they are like wanting to hear about my life. Yes.
>> And I so it's like part of my job as well is then being like, "Yeah, [clears throat] I actually just wrote this thing and I'm I'm performing here and I'm doing this thing and these are the projects I'm working on." And like implicitly being like this is kind of what you're subsidizing actually. Like you're like the overcharged rates that you're paying are like going into like supporting this. It's like implicitly you are being my patron. You are a medi actually.
>> I just remember >> I'm in your like house. You know, >> you just reminded me I like I worked for this um tutoring company while I was hustling as a stand-up or whatever cuz it was like it pays so well.
>> It's the best job.
>> It's so flexible.
>> Paid for my life for the past 10 years.
>> My big break was open for Amy Polar for this huge festival and it was the front page of her set which I was in the article was the front page of the Chronicles like culture section >> and in the article it had my complete joke about being a tutor. Mhm.
>> with my name.
>> And I got fired.
>> No.
>> Yes.
>> Cuz it was making fun of my joke. It makes fun of, you know, the kids.
>> Of course. Of course. Yeah.
>> For being dumb. [laughter] >> And and Rich, >> can you say the joke?
>> Oh god, I can't remember. But it was like it's like I can't >> Yes.
>> It's like parents wanting me to like uh fix their kids and them knowing I'm trans and being I'm being like I'm trans, not a witch doctor. Like something trying to fix their dumb kids or something. And they literally were like, "Hey Norish, like we saw the um article and you please like by like you sign something and you cannot talk about like [laughter] >> this." And I was like, "Oh my god, >> that's so annoying. They printed your joke."
>> By the way, it's like, "Can you ask before you say this stuff?"
>> But was it like more helpful that your joke was printed and it was funny and you open?
>> It was a number of things where I got fired. It was that and I was going to move to LA in a in like in in 6 months or something and they were like actually I think it's a good idea if we just like >> severize let's severize >> and I was like okay >> and I called the company LA branch >> to work when I moved here and they were like and they I must have been on a list [laughter] cuz they >> well that's funny they're like so yeah we're just a different branch so we get all the [laughter] information >> because I like they were so enthusiastic and then they Um um never called back.
>> Yeah. And then I was [laughter] like, "Oh, yeah."
>> They're like, "The thing about her, we she's an amazing tutor. She does tell the newspapers that she hates the kids."
[laughter] So, it's just like not a great fit for our >> Yeah, that does. When you put it like that, it makes sense [laughter] actually.
>> Um should we do another idea? Should we >> What was that? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> What was like about dancing in music?
>> About dancing in music. Yeah. Took us progressed. Okay. This is Noria's first idea. Could [music] I get that?
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, that's based on um >> you really like someone's outfit.
>> Uhhuh.
>> And you're like, "Oh my god, like I love what you're wearing." And they start to tell you about it. And while they're telling you about it, you're kind of thinking like, "Is this accessible to me?
>> Is this going to be a part of my life?"
>> Like, I love that purse. And then there's you're you're trying to catch like, okay, is this something I could actually >> Right. What are we talking?
>> Well, just like a Ford. Is it like they're like, "Oh, yeah. I got it." Uh, sometimes people can sense when you ask them that they know that you're like trying to scope that out and they'll just be like, "Thrift store.
>> Thrift store." And you're like, "It's a gift."
>> And you're like, "All right."
>> They're always like, "Thrift store in Rome." And you're like, "Okay."
>> Yeah. Literally, literally thrift store.
And let me [ __ ] finish tiny tiny town in the countryside near Vienna.
>> You're like, "Okay."
>> Okay. So, loud and clear. I won't have it. Wait, didn't we have some combo about a purse when I saw you at that show?
>> Yes.
>> We had something with our purses, but they were opposite sizes. Your purse was so cute.
>> You liked my purse and and as a very nice person, I gave you all the details, >> right? That's right.
>> Yeah.
>> I kind of love doing that. I love Well, actually, I love both.
>> Put me on. And I feel like I'm going to tell them.
>> Of course. I say everything. That's why it's so I mean, it's like those videos.
Shirt from this, skirt from that. It's like you just want to talk about yourself.
>> But I do like also when it is like small little thrift store.
>> I like being able to thin it too. I like being able to be like back off [ __ ] >> I don't like that because it's like someone the other day actually at a coffee shop was like >> I like your shirt. The shirt gets a lot of compliments. It's like it looks like a doily basically >> and it's bigger than that. It's not about the size. It's more about the material and the vibe.
>> Mhm.
>> So yeah, it looks like a doily.
>> So yeah. And basically the first the coffee shop person was like like your shirt and I was like random store vintage. And she was like okay. Like it was just like a disappointment cuz it just stopped the combo. I wanted to connect a coffee. She was like [laughter] great.
>> Yeah.
>> Gatekeeping [ __ ] >> [ __ ] >> She's like yeah guess what? This coffee is from a vintage store. [laughter] >> There's only there's only one of them.
You can't just buy them.
>> Stupid.
>> It's a good I know. It's just like, >> yeah, >> then it's like, >> do you ever do do you ever look at the tag? Cuz you know, you can eBay sometimes.
>> Oh, >> sometimes it's like, "Well, tell me, give me a little more." And I could still I could get there. I could find it.
>> That's funny when you can sell tell someone's like, "Uh-uh."
>> And you're like, "No." Uh-huh.
>> Uhhuh.
>> I'm like, "Sure, let's look at the tag and let me do some ebang."
>> Yes.
>> And guess what the tag says? H&M.
>> Yeah. Exactly. [laughter] >> All right. They lie.
>> That's funny when that happens.
>> They say it says Zara parenthesis cheap.
That's what it says. There was a time a couple years ago where all >> disposable.
>> Anytime I was liking something, it was from DAS.
>> Yes.
>> Like that like vintage DAS.
>> Yes.
>> Like it was an old time girls >> clothing boutique.
>> Yes.
>> Exactly.
>> I got there.
>> I remember when I was like old enough to fit into Diaas. Like I remember my sister shopping at Diaas when I was like a little little kid and being like my mom being like they don't have a kids section. Like it's just it's not for you. And then when I was like, "Hold on." Like, "I'm nine."
>> Mhm.
>> This really might happen for me.
>> Mhm.
>> Wait, you should go.
>> Yeah.
>> That was a very like trans moment for me cuz I remember just like looking at like I would be outside the dile and just kind of just be like >> looking inside.
>> Then I go to Pakistan.
>> Pakon, right? And they were right nearby.
>> It wasn't what I want. You know, you were like, "I girls."
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> They have all those. I would wear the the guy I would wear the pink >> uh vulcom shirts >> so >> cuz it was still acceptable but it was pink right Kanye. God, sometimes I'm like, "Oh, I'm not like other trans people." And then it's like, "No, I I'm [clears throat] >> like I'm not like them because I have my own stuff [laughter] going on, but I sure sometimes >> stuff going on is what also happens."
>> Cuz you're always like, it's always like as a trans person, you're always like you're like I didn't like wear my mom's shoes. Like there's that kind of like >> but then you're like, "Yeah, but then I pretended the towel on my head was was hair." [laughter] So it's kind of like okay, >> I didn't do that gay thing that I did the towel hair thing.
>> Towel hair. Okay. [laughter] Do you do that as a gay as a is that a gay guy thing too?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> A little bit. Well, you know how gay is just like trans?
>> It's so similar.
>> It's like so similar.
>> Well, unless Okay. But then >> trans women who are lesbians and trans women who are straight are it's like >> it's very different.
>> It's two different worlds.
>> Yeah. That that is true.
>> Yeah.
>> It actually is like I'm scared to even get into it because of like I might even say something seriously wrong. But like >> I'm always gay. It's like that when someone's like gay, >> I can't wait.
>> That's like a gender difference. It's like being a gay guy is like a it's like gender differently than being a straight guy. I'm like it's not like it's like sexuality and gender are obviously so connected. You know what I mean?
>> Literally.
>> And it's so some people like sexuality is not gender. I'm like yes it is.
Obviously it's all kind of soupy in there.
>> It's super like that's a gender that you whatever.
>> Yeah. Unless like well like gay guys who are like straight >> there's that too. Well that even proves the point >> right. Exactly. I'm like that's so different.
>> That's so weird.
>> That's so weird.
>> I know about that. But I feel like they struggle.
>> They're sad.
>> Yeah.
>> They're sad >> sometimes. It's like it's okay. Like just be a [ __ ] Like it's so fun and awesome. It's legit so fun >> and it's anointed. My Tik Tok al algorithm thought I was a gay guy.
>> So, I was getting like really fun stuff and then [clears throat] recently it found out that I'm trans [laughter] and now I'm getting the saddest [ __ ] >> Oh my god, >> it's so funny.
>> It was like it was like Ariana and like Lady Gaga and now it's like it's like trans woman goes to prison because and [laughter] I'm like >> like no no do compilation of celebrities hitting a high F.
>> Please high F. who does a supported high up >> and hot [laughter] guys like just like videos of gay guys just like like in their underwear >> being like I'm going to do pottery in my underwear.
>> No, literally.
>> All right.
>> And now [laughter] And now it's like we're at the courthouse and I'm like no.
>> You're like what is [laughter] happening with Ariana? I don't even know.
>> Oh shoot. I'll be right there at the courthouse. I have just [laughter] some question about Ariana's best looks from 201.
>> You gave it one too many Google searches and I got your number.
>> I got my Should I do one? Yes, please.
>> Okay, >> I'm [music] taking you guys in.
>> Oh, this is mine.
>> This is from last night when we were dancing.
>> Mhm.
>> Basically, there was a part where there was like a bench.
>> Sorry. Who was dancing?
>> Me and Charlie.
>> Just the two of you.
>> No, I think we went with a group of people that was kind of like diffuse borders.
>> Well, um, what's the setting? I just I'm sorry. I'm so curious.
>> Of course. Sorry. We shouldn't have filled you in. Basically, there was like a party that someone we know was like a host for. It was like a gay guy party, right? Or just like gay people, but it had like a gay guy like the main component.
>> And so we went to that. It was like a dancy thing in Chinatown.
>> Was great.
>> Yeah, >> it was cool. I hadn't danced in >> Was it at home or was it was a >> No, it was it was like a ticket.
>> It was a ticket situation.
>> I think I might have Sam might have told me about this party.
>> 100%. Sam Tager told you about the party.
>> I'm sure that people were trying to get you to go to it.
>> Yes. Yes. Yeah.
>> Let's check your Instagram.
>> 100%.
>> You were invited.
>> I heard [clears throat] like it was like it might be a different place, but was there like it's kind of like a fire hazard kind of like place?
>> It wouldn't surprise me if that's what people said.
>> I think that's what Anyways, >> didn't feel so fire to me. Like there was actually a few exits, but I get why that would be something people would say. They're jealous. I'm like, I didn't [laughter] A jealous person might complain about the fire.
>> Like a hater said that. Yeah, that makes sense cuz it was fun. So a hater would be like, it was a fire hazard.
>> Like a straight person where they said it's a fire.
>> Sam wouldn't call a place a fire hazard if it wasn't.
>> Maybe a different place. I'm sorry.
>> No worries. It's just real talk.
>> Just real talk. [laughter] >> This is the part when I say I don't want to.
This is the part when I break free. I can't resist it no more.
>> Hot dog wiener. [laughter] >> Hot dog wiener.
>> Got to keep an eye out for Selenerast.
>> That is that's like really informed my like the way I talk lately. I'm on a kick of like huge.
>> Mhm.
>> And it is from Selener.
>> Selena. That's a funny thing. I mean, she's so Richard and I were listening to the song Come on a Cone, which I really recommend. Do you know that song?
>> No, but that's Wow. That's hellacious.
>> It's a runchy title. The the refrain that the title is taken from is but this ice is so cold it should come on a cone.
>> Got it.
>> Mhm. But otherwise it's so like it's like clearly kind of like salacious and then you're like but what do you mean come on a cone on a cone?
>> But it this the ice is so cold it should come on a cone. This is a lyric that really makes me laugh.
>> When I'm sitting with Anna I'm really sitting with Anna. Ain't no metaphor punchline. I'm really sitting with Anna.
>> That's genius.
>> It's so genius. It's so funny.
>> I don't get that.
>> She's like talking about Anna Winter.
She's like when I say I'm sitting with Anna like I'm not kidding. I'm really sitting with Anna Winter. Oh, you knew that about Anna with Oscar went past you know >> I was like Anna is like not even mine >> a term for a drug.
>> That was my idea like Zana >> kind of is but it's Anna Winter.
>> It's the same I think school of when Drake was like talking about how like he's like if you say you're in Vogue you have to be like on the cover.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Like that's the same kind of like fashion as a people say awesome stuff.
>> Yeah. It's so funny and so but >> anyways dancing. Yes.
>> Yeah. Search idea >> and [sighs and gasps] basically there was a bench and I really do enjoy getting elevated. I'm >> oh my god.
>> Specifically as like pretty short person.
>> That was a good moment.
>> I like to get up on something >> and it is like a little fratty I think of a behavior like it feels kind of like or something. Do you feel that?
>> Yes.
>> But I was in a sorority and I went to frat parties. I know. So, it's like I was kind of partying as a youngster in a world where one of the ways to hype up the party was to stand on a table.
[laughter] >> I don't know.
>> So, >> that's your culture.
>> That's part of my culture. I think >> Listen, it's like like the really work that works. You know what I mean?
>> Of course. No, it's a great it's a great tactic.
>> So, >> taps into something ancient actually.
>> Yes, I think so. Well, I'm like is that how they celebrate in like Greece?
>> Yeah, that's what it's feeling like.
It's like that. It's like one person up and everybody also because it's really good >> mountain top >> mountain top. It's good to have a place to direct your energy. Yes.
>> Like when you're dancing it is really helpful to be like all of us >> like looking towards like that's kind of the function of the DJ sometimes.
>> Well, it also reminds me of like you know have you ever taken acting class where they do like um viewpoints?
>> No.
>> Like [crying] Sounds like Dune. It's her last cast.
[laughter] There's another line in that Nicki Minaj song. She goes like this. If you wasn't so ugly, I'd put my dick in your face. Dick in your face. Put my dick in [laughter] your face.
And then the song ends. She's just singing that.
Ooh, dick in your face. Ooh. Dick in your face. She takes that all the way out to the end.
>> Dick in your face. Put my dick in your face. Put my dick in your face. Yeah.
Yeah.
>> Wow. That's really surprising.
>> It's really funny. It's a shocking It was amazing to play for Richard. And then we were listening to Stupid Hoe and there's a line. I've known that song forever. I've been listening to that song for 15 years. Huge part of my life.
And I didn't know one of the She like at one point she sings something and then I didn't realize the line. She says after she goes, "And I didn't hit that note, but [ __ ] that stupid ho." It's like she kind [laughter] of like sings like a high note but is a little off. And then she says, "And I didn't hit that note, but [ __ ] that stupid ho." It's like so [laughter] funny. It's so funny.
Obviously, what she's saying and doing is bad. Like whatever. Duh. Whatever.
>> We're talking about something else.
>> We're talking about something else right now, which is like something she did.
>> Um, okay. So anyways, so I was up on this bench >> and it was kind of like, oh, oh, the viewpoints thing is just basically like it's like trying to get you to like think about yourself in relation to other people on stage or like in a performance context. So you're kind of basically would be able to make kind of like an interesting tableau just like organically.
>> Yes.
>> I mean [clears throat] that's not what Viewpoints is. I don't know what Viewpoints is. Let's put that to the side. But I feel like growing up in theater, like in a theater, doing like kids theater, [laughter] >> I can't do it. I tried to do it and I couldn't do it.
>> Well, that's why I kept doing it is cuz I didn't know what it was.
>> Points.
>> I would never be able to do it again.
>> That's a fun test.
>> Basically, it's like trying to make it so like if one person is standing, it's like the other two people are like >> on either side of them.
>> So, I feel like you need that kind of stuff for dance. Like you don't just want to be in a circle.
>> That can be so you want to make shapes.
>> You want to make shapes. Also dancing it's so like storytelling shapes.
>> It's like so like you're doing affective storytelling.
>> Yes.
>> Like any move is like you're embodying a vibe, an emotion, an archetype, a sensation. It's all narrative.
>> It's fables.
>> Fables. Some of my biggest insecurities come out in group dancing >> because it >> for me what comes up is like restricted movement >> of like god I'm so shut down like like I can't like I'm so not free cuz like cuz I want and then I and then I kind of hold back or like I want to be and then I kind of like it's a journey and I feel like it depends on the group like that can be >> like sometimes when I dance I'm like oh my god feeling really like supported and free and sometimes I'm Like this is not fun because I'm feeling shut down.
>> Can I expand on that?
>> Yeah.
>> Friends who No, Charlie. Please, Charlie, [laughter] >> let me say this.
>> Okay. Just just this once.
>> Uh [laughter] um specifically what I'm realizing is like when friends when platonic friends can freak on each other, >> I can't do that. And it makes me sad that I can't freak on my friends. It makes me uncomfortable. By the way, I get why it's hard. Like, it's going to be so awkward and I feel like >> I feel like you I feel like you you can and you will.
>> Sometimes a friend will kind of like >> kind of start to grind and then and I'm like >> I'm like don't do that >> and then move away.
>> Yeah. You're like uhoh.
>> I'm going to just hold keep the grind, >> right? I I think you I I feel like there is something there. By the way, the pleasure of it is sometimes that it's like it feels a little crazy.
>> Also, by the way, this is also where substances come into play. Like, it's a huge part of the >> loosening up of the whatever the [ __ ] >> Can Can you freak on a friend?
>> I can.
>> Okay. Can you freak on a friend?
>> Yeah, I would say that I was freaked upon.
>> Okay.
>> I I would say we freaked on each other.
>> Yes.
>> That's beautiful.
>> I can freak on a friend. And I think like honestly it though it is like I can lose it. Like there were times last night where I was like wait I feel awkward dancing and then I would try and be like >> um okay let me just really like close my eyes and just try and like feel and pretend I'm alone like but it's like I was I lose it and I get it back. So I know what it feels like also to not be in that zone is like being okay with losing it knowing stuff will come back and not freaking out about the losing it. It's like I'm not feeling it. I'm not feeling good. It's like just trust it'll come back.
>> Wait, that's actually my first idea is related. Can we go there for a second? I know that's two in a row for me and I haven't even done the first one, but let's just switch it maybe.
>> Yeah.
>> Car home leave. Okay, this is also it's like sorry we honestly recorded yesterday and we used all our ideas. So all our stuff is from last night.
>> It was good.
>> Whatever.
>> It's good. But it's like I I never I realize only in the past year or two, I've realized that when I'm in the car going from one part of the night to another part of the night, if there's like a pregame and then a place we're going >> or like we're chilling at a house and then we're going to a bar in the car ride there or the train like any going there, I always want to go home. I'm not in the mood to go out anymore. I'm like, >> uh, let's just not. I always had that thought and now I've had it. I've noticed it enough where I know that when I get there, I like it and I get into it and I want to stay, >> but it's like I get bored in the getting there and I want to leave. So, it's like >> knowing that you lose the desire to be out and then it comes back.
>> It comes back.
>> You know, this I think is a huge thing.
This actually has really helped me in partying where it's like there will be times where you're a little bored and that that doesn't immediately mean, oh, let me leave.
>> It's time to go home.
>> It's like just wait it out. Sometimes it can be amazing and you know you kind of have to make evaluations periodically of like maybe this is more boring than it needs to be actually and I should actually just leave. But like >> usually with partying it's it's worth making the investment.
>> I have that with talking to a new person >> like if you're at if you're in a party setting >> and somehow you found yourself just sitting next to a person that you just met and everyone else is kind of away.
There might be moments in that conversation that are like boring or uncomfortable, but if you can like push through it, you can still kind totally totally give it a second.
>> It like it's like when you like play a sport or whatever, it's like you do need to warm up.
>> Yeah. you know, like there's not like >> this is I I find the problem sometimes with like, you know, sometimes you're really encouraged to center your desire and that's helpful and you want to be in touch with it, but also like >> like always being like, I don't like it, I'm going to go. It's like actually it's often worth sitting with things a little bit and like not try. It's like we can be kind of wy.
>> Yes.
>> Your desire can be kind of wily and can go around and can can be mercurial and switch and so it's like >> and dancing is really like that. I feel like a dance floor, I'm like, "Wow, I'm really not in the mood for this." Like basically always starts to like I'm kind of like, "Oh, oh, I actually am really feeling the music." But like in the beginning I'm like, "Oh, I'm not dancing. That's funny. I'm not dancing."
>> Like it just wouldn't do that.
>> Yeah. It like doesn't feel like it applies.
>> This was for me. Um, I had like a thing that I saw the Wallace Shawn play that John Early's in called What We Do What We Did Before Our Moth Days. Um, which I thought was very beautiful, but there's a there's one line um by this the whole play is structured as like four people sitting in chairs kind of giving monologues about a story to the audience. One of them is like kind of the mom figure played by this actress Maria Ditzia who I love and I saw her in something in high school that I thought she was amazing and she was in Velvet.
>> Charlie adores female performers >> of course and she she in particular I was like back then and I this was like >> transf [laughter] right of course >> think about it please. Um but she one of the monologue she gives is talking about like her experience of being she was like in love and was with this guy for a really long time and she's like something that started to happen as we get older. It's like I would actually feel myself out of love with him and it would be like the light in the world just like went away. Like when I would feel in love with him it would be like I was in this warm lovely place and then all of a sudden it would like go away.
She was like, "But then I learned actually like that if I was patient and careful, I could actually just like kind of walk back to the room where I was."
>> And you know, I don't know if like that's like a a lesson of like great like I in the play it's like doesn't >> it's not quite clear that that was like the right decision that actually made.
>> Definitely feels true. But it does feel true and be like, "Oh, actually a little bit of patience." And that that applies, I think, for so many things like we're talking about like definitely romantically, but it can also apply in friendships or sometimes in a friendship you're like, "This is not really working right now.
>> I'm not feeling the the warmth. There's something about this is not quite landing." But >> I bet with a little patience and care, we can get back to that. And certainly in like a conversation with a friend, certainly with like a dancing certain with a especially experiences that are can be a little scary that have that component to it that have a vulnerability, right? Like dancing certainly has that a conversation with a stranger, right? And that like often your first desire is a response to that vulnerability. It's like no, no, no. I I I can't do this. I have to go.
>> I'm a Buddhist.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Are you are you into Buddhism or No. Did I make that up?
>> Only in the way that like anybody is.
You know what I And it's like, of course, I read self-help books and so those are all like Buddhist a little bit.
>> I've been getting a lot into like in an annoying in the most annoying way possible I've been getting into Buddhism. So, >> you're very Wait, that's awesome.
>> Yeah.
>> Has it been like awesome low key?
>> Yes. I've been uh I'm like in a chapter of my life where I'm starting to come to terms with how much I ruminate.
>> Like I wasn't like I always knew that but I never like addressed it like whoa.
And now I'm just like oh my god like I got to deal with this. So Buddhism is like is helping me with >> it comes up a lot in like the way we I feel like a lot of the OCD therapy stuff we've talked about has been like it's like truly just so comes down to like just accept >> acceptance. It's like just accept that it's like yeah, maybe it's bad >> and silly. Like I'm silliness is helping me >> where I'm like I'm I do this thing now where it's like I I start to feel myself loop then I god I wish I had a time machine. [laughter] >> But I don't I don't know how to make that. Yeah.
>> Don't talk. Yeah.
>> They're like it sucks. I'm [laughter] not friends with Jimmy Neutron anymore.
You know when you were saying about getting back into therapy now maybe I feel like there is a really >> funny like I feel like this therapist that I really loved who was this like OCD therapist who really helped me was like one of the like tactics was like and it's so funny because it comes from such like an unfunny like description of the approach but it's like we can utilize humor.
>> Yeah. And it's like utiliz I could see your training low key of comedy being like really >> it helps.
>> Yes. And like the that it's like yes you can utilize humor and it's like Yeah.
But the >> Ava just left >> the effectiveness of that is will be more intense the the funnier you are.
really like you could actually cut through in a stronger way >> with like really good humor.
>> Your brain makes things so serious and it just like it immediately helps to just like >> to it feels like just the like a good parenting of like a small child just like redirection and just like I'm just like oh like it's nothing is ever that serious. It's always astonishing to me how the most effective in my life mental health things are just like a little sentence that I come back to >> and that it like it just becomes an off ramp and it's like it's not it doesn't have to be like the most logically coherent consistent thing whatever it just is like >> a a sentence off ramp for my mind to go to and then like leave the thought >> where it's literally like nah it is what it is you know what I mean and that one maybe it's like it's a little overused so it's a little bumpy doesn't always work but like you know when you find one that's like well I wish I had a time machine too bad >> and that's been mine And you're just like so good.
>> I love that because it makes you feel like >> what do you want, [ __ ] Like that kind of thing.
>> Silly. It's It's saying like it's it's not um it's it's like I see you >> but we're just not going we're not going to do things.
>> Yeah. It's like we're not going to ignore. Yeah. It was not ignored.
>> Literally should have, could have, would have is a really good line. Because it's like >> you could spend your whole life should have, could have, would have. It's like that's what you sound like. You sound like should have, could have, would have.
>> This is what you sound like. Should have, could have, would have.
>> Yeah. [laughter] Exactly.
>> It's like a dragon name.
>> Ooh.
>> Should have.
>> Should have, could have, would have.
>> Should have, could have, would have.
>> I am wearing this fabulous sequin ball gown. I'm looking sickening tonight.
That's should have, could have, would have narrating her look, her runway.
>> As it goes down, >> should I do Nory's last idea?
>> Yes, please.
>> And then we should go due to We've been doing a long time, but also I'm so hot.
>> Okay. I'm sweating. Yeah, it's hot.
>> Um, okay. Nori, this is Nory's second idea.
If I dump, you'll dump. [laughter] >> When I dump, you dump. We dump.
>> Um, >> just like that.
>> This does feed into my fear of being a bad person, >> but I'll just be >> honest and truthful.
>> It's when you're talking to a friend and you you kind of want to share something hard, I see.
>> But you know that if you ask that of them, >> that you're going to have to give that labor. Mhm.
>> So you just don't dump cuz you're like if I dump and I say what's going on with me, [laughter] I'm going to have to then be empathetic to like whatever you want to talk about. It's kind of [laughter] like mature.
>> So no, I think because I think >> you dump and I can't handle you right now.
>> And it's always like it's always my friend with the most drama. [laughter] >> It's like they they have so much drama, so much going on and you're like, >> "Well, my roommate's cat had the thing again." and and you're like, "Oh, [laughter] and you're just like, okay, I'm just going to keep it surface level right now because >> Can I say why I think this is actually like emotionally [laughter] mature?"
>> Because first of all, it's acknowledging that actually there is an emotional labor to it that you're asking of someone and that you would if someone does it to you that you would take it on as an emotional labor, right? That you're not being like, >> "Oh, cuz a lot of people do not know this and they like won't really make space. They're like, I'm going to dump and then like >> bye >> bye." Yeah. Yeah. And you recognize a dump and >> a dump and not okay, >> right? Or like dump and don't recognize that it's like, oh, I'm going to take something from you, you know, like that you I'm actually asking you to do this kind of work.
>> I I have a friend who's really empathetic, >> but she also dumps.
>> So like even though I'm like, yes, she'll be empathetic about this, I just know that, >> right?
>> It this is going to cost me this this this [laughter] cost me like Yeah. Well, actually, so for her, wait, >> it's going to cost you like empathy bucks basically.
>> And there's a huge huge imbalance of empathy bucks [laughter] here because like like I'm paying her maybe like 125.
>> Well, you're like, yeah, that's hard. I mean, that stuff can just be hard. And she's like, h, >> oh, >> oh my gosh. You should just give Is that what you're saying? Is that what you're saying? Or >> I'm saying that like uh Sorry, it's very confusing, but I'm just I'm just saying that like >> like the thing the trouble the problems I'm bringing are not that big.
>> Uhhuh.
>> And she's going to be very empathetic, but then when it's her turn, it's going to be like bigger. Like my, you know, >> you're like, I might be complaining to the wrong [ __ ] >> Yes. And then you're just like And then you know that like you're going to have you're going to pay for it. You're paying big money for for that little bit of empathy.
>> My dad exploded again. again. [laughter] >> He hit my mom again.
>> You're like, "Oh crap." [snorts] >> Like my thing like I got exploded.
>> I mean like [laughter] physically exploed.
>> Oh yeah. Sorry.
>> It's like we just got him back together and you have to imagine all [laughter] >> the tape. We don't have that.
>> We hit my mom >> right after.
>> I know. I was saying exploded. I was like what's a funny I was like combusted but it wasn't quite going to real.
[laughter] >> You're right. Like it do explode. Yeah.
And then you're like, "Oh, my I got a weird email that like annoyed me."
>> So with her, I just keep I have to now just >> I think sometimes it's chitchat land.
Yeah.
>> Cuz I don't think it's always clear that dumping is emotionally right. Actually, I think sometimes it's like a bad habit to like really just do it if it's good to be intentional about it.
>> I'm trying to watch it more cuz I can dump. I can dump and I'm trying to just like be like, "No, actually don't want to do that."
>> Interesting.
>> Yeah. I I can I can do it, too. And sometimes it's helpful to be like, you know what, >> time and place.
>> Yeah.
>> But you did it at my birthday party [laughter] >> while we were dancing.
>> No, no, that's sorry. That's um what's her name? The like by sister like the Totty Tati Westbrook video.
>> Oh, >> where she's like talking about James sucking dick and [ __ ] and she goes time and place.
>> She did it at my birthday. But she did it at my birthday party.
>> That video was psycho on like on so many levels. Calling her friend a pedophile while telling everyone about her birthday. Literally, it was like >> there was a NOW episode that like really dove into that video and it was like >> I was like going through a bad time at that time and like found that podcast episode where they're describing Tati explaining that she's mad at James for being >> for being a gay [ __ ] at her birthday party, but it's like you invited a 19-year-old gay guy to your birthday party and it like >> that friendship was doomed from the start. Why were they friends? this like conservative straight woman and this like gay >> Oh my god. It's also it's like yeah like this 19-year-old gay guy who's been famous since he was 12 like >> right what are you talking about?
>> You are actually punch like no matter what I'm like this is you are being mean like he's you're punching down.
>> I love that like that era it's like we both love makeup so we're like best friends that can only go so far.
[laughter] >> You might need more you might need more eyeliner.
>> It's literally like that's a nice shade.
>> Okay. So I don't think this friendship is going to continue. Yeah, but you're a gay [ __ ] >> Shade of makeup was >> Time and Place.
>> Time and place.
>> Sucking dick and [ __ ] >> She's so scandalized. I haven't seen the full video.
>> It's funny.
>> I live for that era.
>> I should watch it. I won't. I guarantee you.
>> Um, I watched it.
>> And >> it's awesome.
>> It's funny.
>> She's just has a really funny a effect.
>> Yeah, that's really what it is.
>> Her voice is such a tweedle.
>> Yeah.
It's like that.
>> Not really.
>> It's like hi.
So, let's stop. Honestly, it's like so long.
>> This was the best episode ever.
>> Can I hour again? I'm sorry. I was about to >> um [laughter] >> No, I don't Everyone know we'll plug and we'll kind of do an echo like ad lib.
So, just leave us a little space to like kind of jump in.
>> Um I'm doing my hour again.
>> Okay. [laughter] >> The alleion.
>> What? What?
>> It's called Noria's Present. Nor is present. Nori is present.
>> Nori is present. Say it again.
>> It's June 10th.
>> Woohoo. Pride month.
>> Yes. Literally.
>> Yes, queen.
>> That's it.
>> Yes, mama.
>> Yes. So, just get your tickets now when you hear the episode and then you'll go to the show >> and no matter where you live, it's time to come to Los Angeles.
>> That's such a good point.
>> That's so fun. Oh my god. Come for Pride. Have a fun summer. See Nory's show. Come see Nor show >> and I bet there'll be really cool like fun kind of hot interesting people there.
>> Oh yeah, >> definitely like a CNBC scene like >> exactly.
>> Ben Stiller.
>> Well, guess what?
>> Really?
>> Yeah, of course.
>> No. Okay.
>> He is huge. Norad, right?
>> Huge.
>> Hollywood is swimming with these people, these kinds of celebs. This is the joke I wanted to do. I came up with the right example. You know who Natalie and I saw at Pilates? Who? Wobuffa Fett from Pokémon. [laughter] I don't know what he's talking about.
>> Does it have a strong core?
>> Yeah, actually like it kind of works.
So, [laughter] >> do you want to plug your thing one more time or you feel like we got it?
>> June 10th.
>> Okay. [laughter] >> Looking at that camera to me.
>> Look at a camera that's pointing at the ground basically. [laughter] >> And I'm like, >> "All right, guys. Give it up.
>> We did it. [applause] >> Good work, everyone.
>> We did it.
Boring when every day is the same.
Take me on a rocket ship to see [music] the earth from space. I'm an explorer, baby.
Want to come over?
It's exploration time.
That was a Headgum podcast.
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