This Married Couple Built a 7 Figure Land Business

Added: 2026-05-30

[00:00:00]By the time you do your renovation and sell that, there's another six months timeline tacked onto that. So to be able to sell something and make the same profit margins that we were making on house flips in seven days, that's where the real proof of concept. How many steps you took forward in the business in terms of learning, making adjustments, maybe mistakes you made and learned from. There are wins outside of deals, >> but the deals are still there. It's what happens in the conversations that are going to dictate how successful or not successful you are.

[00:00:33]All right, everybody. Welcome back to the Real Estate Investing Podcast. Super excited to have Katie and Brian Dearis with me today. Husband and wife living in Costa Rica right now, investing in land in the United States. Welcome to the show, guys.

[00:00:46]>> Thank you so much.

[00:00:47]>> Thank you for having us.

[00:00:48]>> Yeah, I mean, I I'm excited for this episode. like you guys are doing a lot of cool things with a family. Like there's a lot of hurdles. First, let's just get into like what got you guys into land investing. Land investing is everyone has a different story for how they got into this. Um let's get into that to start to give the viewers a perspective.

[00:01:07]>> Yeah. So I um I got furled from my job during COVID and began flipping houses.

[00:01:12]So I saw a path of flipping houses and I figured this was going to be our path.

[00:01:16]We're you know starting a family. Um, but I wanted to create enough income where Katie could leave her job and we could really spend as much time as possible with the kids. That's that's always been our goal. And u flipping houses was an interesting way to try to get to that point. And I once I realized that the writing was no longer on the wall to get there. I heard one podcast and I was always learning, always trying to figure out what could be another opportunity. listened to one podcast on land and began just researching that further and further and there I just realized that there was a lot more exit strategies there. You know, holding seller notes was always something I I found very interesting and creating kind of a pretty passive income stream from something like that. So, you know, just dived into it, hired a mentor and just started, you know, right away kind of following their instructions. Mike Balcom was the first person that we kind of learned land from and he taught us how to really start you know marketing using text messages. That was something to us that you know it was during that time period where in text messaging was you know land portal was shut down. So, we started right in the beginning of that that strange time period where text messaging, you know, people thought it was kind of a dead marketing avenue and um we just kind of forged through that and came out the other side with a couple of good deals and eight months later, Katie was able to leave her W2 corporate job and we were able to kind of join forces together where she had that real sales acumen and I had a lot of like construction management experience. So, it really made sense for us to kind of split the business that way where Katie's on the sales the front end and I'm on the back end dispositioning property.

[00:02:57]>> Katie, where was the uh where is kind of your family like at this point? Like it's obviously stressful when Brian got furled, everything like that. Um you still had a W2 as well. Um but like how at need was land to work for your for your family, for your kind of life.

[00:03:13]So, if we back up a little bit, when Brian had first approached me and said, "Hey, I got this idea. I know it can work."

[00:03:23]Like, Brian is one of those people where if he has a vision and he like feels it, he's all in. Like there's nothing stopping him, I think. Maybe. And at the time I tried, I was like, "No." Do you want to be my business partner? I said, "Absolutely not. You're nuts. I'm working a full-time job. We had just had a baby in 2020. I was then pregnant right away again with another one on the way. I was like, "Listen, I got it good.

[00:03:55]I love my job. Things are going well.

[00:03:58]You know, I'm working remotely. Um, why are we going to like blow this up? I got a good thing going. You're flipping a bunch of homes. Things are happening.

[00:04:06]We've got some rental income now. Things are good." He's like, "But things can be great." So, I sat on it. And I'm also when I make a decision, I make them pretty quick when I feel it, too. I just had a gut instinct that I had a lot of transferable skills that I could really hone in on and support him in areas of the business that were not his strengths. and he really had a ton of transferable skills that were his strengths that he could leverage and um we said you know what >> let's let's give it a go. Let's do it.

[00:04:43]>> Let's do it.

[00:04:45]>> It took a little bit of massaging. I had to consume a little bit of information.

[00:04:48]I listened to um quite a few podcasts some of yours. I listened to a I listen to Seth Williams. Right. So um once I had that comfort level then we gave it a go. We said okay let's do it. Have you guys before this time taken on any businesses together?

[00:05:06]>> No.

[00:05:06]>> Never. No.

[00:05:07]>> Nothing together. Um, what what did you guys need like when you were first coming in? Like what's what was your leeway? Because some people are like, if this doesn't work in six months or is that not even in your guys' head?

[00:05:19]Curious from both your guys' perspectives, like when you're coming into this business, is it like I'm not going to give this a chance like I'm going to make it work? It sounds like uh Brian, you had a ton of conviction with this business and that's what kind of brought Katie in with you. Um, but what was your guys' kind of leeway with this?

[00:05:33]Um, did you guys have a runway like we're going to try this for a year or is it like we're just going to make this happen?

[00:05:38]>> Can I take that one, Brian?

[00:05:39]>> Sure.

[00:05:40]>> Because I think for me it was a lot more emotional because at that time the goal was really to get me out of my W2. Brian had already been, you know, an entrepreneur, you know, doing the the flips within within homes. Um, and so for me, it wasn't really a, hey, we're gonna give it this much time and then decide if we're gonna quit or if we're gonna keep going. The the mentality that we had is I am going to be out of my job by this time.

[00:06:15]>> And we did every single thing we possibly could to make that happen.

[00:06:22]There was no if, when, it's this is when it's going to happen. this is when um and we stuck to that and it was hard working at W2, having kids, trying to find the time to make these things happen, but we sort of we knew what our like vivid vision was for our life and what we were working towards. And so there there was no option >> really.

[00:06:47]>> And for everyone listening, like this is less than three years ago, like when they came into land. And right now you hear the monkeys in uh Brian's background. They're in Costa Rica traveling the world. Two kids under six I would assume if my math is correct. Um so two kids under six and they were babies as they were building this business. So I think one thing like a lot of people that can take things from this cuz there's always a reason why not. Like you guys probably had a list of 50 reasons like why we shouldn't do this, why Brian should go find another job or whatever it is. Brian, anything to add to that perspective that Katie just had in terms of like uh your guys leeway? You guys, you were trying to get Katie out of her job. Like it sounds like you had this vision of traveling probably then. Is that true?

[00:07:29]>> It wasn't so much a vision of traveling then. It was just a vision of more time.

[00:07:34]It's just like I knew that the fruits of our labor could produce more time for us. And the more time that we had uh during the day with our kids that were, you know, infant and you know, two years old in that range, they're 16 months apart. That was our goal at the time was let's take this first step. Let's get more time. Let's have the everything that we do come back to us and then from there get the W2 removed from Kitty's life and and have all that additional time together. And then from there what you know now what are the possibilities.

[00:08:09]So it was a slow roll into what where our life is today. But um at the time it was step one you know W2 step two all right what does this feel like? How do we kind of create a life around this business because as we all know there's a location independence that goes along with land and we were trying to really emphasize that.

[00:08:31]>> This is amazing what you guys have done traveling everything like this. Um, Katie, you mentioned earlier like skills being brought over to this business.

[00:08:38]Like you thought some skills align. And I want you both to talk about kind of like skills coming over from past endeavors versus like character traits because you guys both seem to have I always think like grit is one of the biggest things when you're coming to be an entrepreneur. Like you got to have some grit. You got to be resilient. But character traits you brought over as well as like skills that were going to be valuable in this business.

[00:08:58]>> Yes. Absolutely. So um I was for the majority of my corporate career a sales leader within headhunting and recruiting space which means I myself did the job as a producer for a very long time and then as I grew my career I started leading more and more teams and my direct reports got much larger and then eventually to a place where I was leading leaders. Um, and if anybody knows anything about recruitment and head hunting, it is a sharky business.

[00:09:35]Um, you start to feel like you're almost only as good as your last deal.

[00:09:40]um you are analyzing hundreds of KPIs and it is a tough gig and you have to have the ability to a lead by example but also be able to continue to inspire and motivate people in a job daytoday that can seem very daunting. Um, so you like celebrate those wins, but you have to learn how to like ride the roller coaster and be kind of cool with the lows and know that that's just part of the business. And once I saw how well that translated into the land space, I thought, I can do this. Like, I got this. I can hire, coach and retain people within a business that requires a lot of mental capacity, right? Um, and you have to be able to endure until your business is predictable enough and consistent enough that you sort of know what to expect along the way.

[00:10:48]>> What about you, Brian?

[00:10:50]Yeah, for me, you know, I had a financing background. So, I worked in banks. So, you know, the financial components of the business were a little bit easier for me to adapt to, you know, when we're looking to raise money and go for mortgages on larger subdivide deals.

[00:11:06]So, I can walk that walk and talk that talk pretty well because of that. And but I think the biggest level experience that I gained was the flipping houses part where for me I had to work with you know multiple contractors and I had to um consistently overcome uh issues in that house flipping space all day every day and then how to figure out that timelines for each contractor to you know step in when the drywall is needed uh once the electrical is done we can put up the drywall all those kind of things. Uh so there was a a s you know a sequence of events that needed to happen and I was good at managing that. So my skill set uh really translates well to working with engineers, clearing land, you know, getting and and working through title. I did, you know, I only did 25 flips, but you know, you're talking 50, you know, 50 transactions on either side. So I had a good rapport and knew how to look at title. I just had that closing experience as well. I was also a realer at the time. So I really, you know, we're re very real, you know, heavy in our business. So me having those conversations with realators and building that trust very early on has been a benefit, I believe, to us. Um, so a lot of those things on the back end for me were skill sets that I learned away along the way in not only banking, but flipping houses.

[00:12:28]>> Seems like both your skills like there's not a ton. One thing when Daniel and I started our business like there was there was o there's more overlap probably like in Daniel and I my brother and I starting businesses together where you guys it's like it seems pretty distinct like in terms of different skill sets um that work really well together. Um but at the end of the day you guys are husband and wife so uh working husband and wife it's always an interesting uh dynamic. Uh can you guys touch a little bit on that? Like how is the development of that gone? Like obviously there's like just spreading out personal versus business stuff everything like that is I think it's really important and same thing with me like when it's brother and brother like we get in a fight in business it doesn't change how we uh treat each other like in day-to-day everything like that but can you guys touch a little bit on that?

[00:13:12]>> Yeah I think for us what's worked and I've said this publicly before is like we we the business and the kids and our life all kind of intermingle at all times. So, we don't really have like after 8:00 p.m. no talking about business kind of thing because, you know, there's things that I need her help on and her guidance on where I'm uh she's more riskadverse and I'm, you know, throw it against the wall and let's let's make it work kind of thing.

[00:13:35]So, there is that dichotomy as well. But at the end of the day, there really isn't a separation for us. It just makes things a little bit more interesting is the way I look at it. You know, kids make life a little bit more interesting when you're married um and hectic at all times. Same with business, you know, and that grit to power through those things together um has made our life a bit more interesting and we don't really have any quote unquote boundaries. Um but there are disagreements in the business and in life in general, but we kind of have figured out a good way that works well for us and we just kind of let things flow throughout the day. And um I think we have a slight advantage too. I've said this too, but you know, the fact that we can, you know, talk about things after the kids go to bed and, you know, outside of business hours where most, you know, business partners are talking, you know, between your nineto-ive timelines. Um, you know, we're working on weekends. We're talking about things at all times and it gives us, I think, a slight edge.

[00:14:26]>> Yeah. It's just kind of seems like it's intermingled in in kind of your lives.

[00:14:31]Um, which is good. And I think raising kids like as you guys are doing tra uh traveling, everything like that, like it helps them hear that. It helps you guys have uh normal dialogue and it sees I think it just shows like the freedom that you guys have as well to your kids.

[00:14:45]Um like you guys are able to do this you're able to do this together. Um any different perspective there Katie though?

[00:14:53]>> Honestly, not really. Um Brian, you you pretty much hit it spot on. um we've we've never wanted to put boundaries around it because I feel like in life like people are always searching for something that is pushing them forward and that they get excited about. Um especially in a marriage, you know, we've been together for what at this point 16 years total we've been together. Um and so it keeps it very exciting. It's something that we are constantly working on together and we're problem solving. Like we're using our brain to be able to continue to live the life that we decided that we wanted for ourselves and our family. And so that keeps the land business top of mind and top of conversation because it is our vessel to what we define as our life and our family success. And so it's not so much the business, it's really just the fuel to be able to continue to do the things that give us the most joy.

[00:16:14]and we've decided that that's what this is all about. Like you got one shot and over the last couple of years we've built an opportunity to do this and so it's exciting for us.

[00:16:29]>> I think a lot of people listening are going to really connect with like it's not necessarily the vehicle. Your vehicle is land. A lot of obviously our listeners vehicle is land but it's like attacking life and like trying to make the most out of it. Yeah.

[00:16:40]>> Talk about the traveling aspect. Like it's not like a short term. It's not like you guys are hopping around the world with your kids every 10 days or something like that. Like you guys, from my understanding, you guys find places and stay for a little bit then find the next place. Talk about the desire for that. Is it cultural for your kids?

[00:16:55]Everything like that. Where'd that come from?

[00:16:58]>> Yeah. Well, before you know, we got married when we were younger, we traveled all over the world, just the two of us. Um Brian, he was in the military, so he was stationed in Germany for three years. So he really had the opportunity to be all over Europe. And for me that that's just wasn't something that I had done. You know, I'd gone to Jamaica and Mexico and done the Caribbean, done those things and had moved around the US a little bit, but once we got together, we realized that this was something that we were both really excited and passionate about. So we traveled a lot. Um, you know, it took us a couple of years to finally have the opportunity to have kids and once we did, we started to slow down. Um, COVID hit as well. So, you know, when you're pregnant twice, you have two babies and it's all during COVID. Um, it was it was a tough time I think for everybody. But I think during that those years we really realized that you know our family is complete but the like art and the gift of travel is missing. Um and so Brian maybe you want to talk about like a little bit about the Dominican and Florida and some of those things that we did early on to like test our family's like vacation strength I guess our our travel meter before we dove in.

[00:18:18]>> Yeah. For us it was it had a lot to do with um I think you know the amount of travel we did before kids and then once we felt the kids were ready to take longer trips um we started just to spend time uh I think Ron even at the same Airbnb as you in Florida for a month and just you know testing that out right >> which is crazy. Um, but we stayed there for a month and and then we just kind of got this uh new excitement for travel uh because the kids were at a good age to do so and and we started exploring, you know, first better weather. You know, you know, we live in Pennsylvania, but where can we go to, you know, enjoy more time outside? What's going to make the kids the happiest, right? Is it better weather? Can we put a few of those things together to create this, you know, different lifestyle? And maybe we're only traveling part of the year.

[00:19:10]maybe we're snowbirds. We didn't know what that meant yet, but and then, you know, we got um we got an opportunity to join a school down in Urguay. Um and we went down there for 3 months from September of 2025 to November. Uh so we're basically there for three months and we enrolled them in a school there and we met a lot of people that were living this kind of nomadic lifestyle.

[00:19:33]So then we really started thinking about where can we go next and what's possible to do on our own without this school system. So that's where Costa Rica evolved from and we still take keep close tabs on these people and what they're doing and how they're doing it.

[00:19:48]So we almost have like a group chat of these people that have, you know, kind of broken the mold, you know, in a good way to say it or bad way to say it, however you want to say it. But uh at the end of the day, we felt it was right for us. We had a calling to to a time zone that would work for the business, something that would be kind of uh we wanted a different culture for the kids at four and 5 years old, as the age they are now. They didn't understand what Spanish was, like how do you tell a four-year-old that somebody speaks different than you, right? So, we we wanted them to understand that, you know, we wanted to hear monkeys in the background, which I just heard. We wanted them to to see nature a little differently. And um so that just kind of stemmed from a three-month stint in Urgue. And from there, we uh kind of started diving into Costa Rica. We've been here for five months. We're going home for a few months to kind of decide what we're going to do with all of our assets back in the States. and then we're coming to Panama next. Uh all the time being enrolled in school and allowing them to try different foods, learn the language, um go to the beach four to five times a week after school.

[00:20:48]Um just having this kind of unique lifestyle that we really think affords them just a bit more time outside and happiness in general.

[00:20:55]>> Yeah. No, I love that. And it's uh I think it's inspiring what you guys are doing in terms of just like giving your kids those lives and not a lot of people and I don't know what where this podcast is going. We haven't talked a lot about land, but that's fine. Um, a lot of a lot of people uh kind of build their lives around their kids instead of like having their kids and that's what you guys used to do. You guys used to travel, bring your kids along like it can work for them as well. Um, and just like having them engulfed in your lives instead of like so many people just build their lives around what their kids are doing every single day. Um, and what Brian referred to last year when we went to I went to Florida with my family for a month last year and uh Brian go went to Florida right after me and I saw Brian's uh Instagram story. I'm like you're at the same house I was just at.

[00:21:38]Like literally I think Brian Hopefully we left the place clean for you guys. I think we left you an extra I had to buy a desk actually. I bought a desk that quite a bit.

[00:21:46]>> Yeah. So you used my desk.

[00:21:47]>> That was basically my desk.

[00:21:49]>> There you go. Um let's get into some land though. Let's talk about your marketing because from my understanding you guys have done texting your entire uh land career. Let's talk a lot about marketing, getting deals via text, everything like that. Um first like where where did how did you guys decide on texting as your marketing platform?

[00:22:10]>> Yes, we so working with Mike Balum, we sort of went through what are our different options? Um what's the response time frame? What's the cost of all of these? What are what are we looking at? Like what can we handle? Um, and we went through, okay, cold calling, is that something we want to do? Do we want to PPC? Do we want to do texting?

[00:22:33]Do we want to do mailers? What does that look like? Brian used to do mailers for um for flips. So, that was something he had already, you know, been pretty well verssed in that. Um, but texting for us, we wanted a a more immediate response.

[00:22:49]Um, we didn't want to have to wait a couple of weeks to see sort of what comes back. I mean, in hindsight, with how chaotic our life was at the time, it probably would have been a great option for us. Um, but we were all in. We're like, if we're going to do it, we have our date on leaving this job. Like, this is going to get a response rate very quickly, and we're just going to be forced to have to figure it out, >> right? The slower rate for us was the easier route. Um, but we just wanted to jump right in. Uh, which is why we we went with texting. And for the first couple of months, we did it on our own.

[00:23:31]Um, we felt that we needed to learn firsthand what was happening on the front lines before we threw anybody else in. Otherwise, we would not be able to inspect what we expect and we weren't going to be able to truly train, coach, and develop a person to work alongside us.

[00:23:50]>> Yeah. What What was your guys's success?

[00:23:53]You guys started I believe you said like September 2023 or so, October.

[00:23:57]>> U what was your first six months? What did that look like in terms of uh your success, deals, anything like that?

[00:24:04]>> I think in the first six months um we got maybe two deals full cycle. So, it was that trial and error. I think in the first 30 days, we got something under contract. Uh we had to renegotiate down.

[00:24:17]We had to uh and we sold it for, you know, $6,000 profit. So, proof of concept, you can buy and you can sell land. Everybody's kind of looking for that, you know, in your first couple of deals, right? To see how things go full cycle. Um, and then I think in that toward the later part of that six-month period, we got something that was a bit bigger under contract. Um, and another thing kind of going back to an earlier question for flipping houses, like we did pretty well in that space. Um, but you're really kind of capped at what you can make on a house flip. There's a good deal, there's a really good deal, but that's kind of where you'll always end between, you know, a $25,000 flip and a $90,000 flip might might have been our our best deal, right? and I had to split that with a partner. So, you know, walking away with that, it's a great amount of money, but we quickly realized in land that that number could be much much higher on on the right deal. So, we had a a good deal that we took uh that we got in that first six months that was that propelled us to start investing in all the other pieces of the business that we were, you know, doing uh much more cheaply at the time. Like, we didn't have a CRM. So, we felt like we were losing opportunities. as we ramped up in text, more more leads, more things were falling through the cracks and the texting platform at the time was not the CRM that we thought it could be. So all those things, so we were able to reinvest that money into the business and then that's when things started to really take shape. We could increase our tech stack at that point. We could send more deals and we can stay more organized when those opportunities come back into our our CRM. So that was kind of our first six months was a couple proof of concept and one larger deal that kind of set us up for the future.

[00:25:55]What was the profit on that larger deal if you remember?

[00:25:57]>> Yeah, that's one that we uh closed in our fastest close ever. It was our third deal. I think we closed it in seven days from the we put a sign in the ground. We had a contract signed. It didn't hit the market yet. Somebody drove by the sign, offered us the money. If I had to remember on that deal, I think we made about 60K on our third deal, which really changed the game and the landscape for us to really, like I said, reinvest in that. But that was from from the moment we put the sign in the ground to the day we got our money back uh about 60k in 7 days.

[00:26:30]>> How did that change your guys's minds?

[00:26:32]Did it change your guys' mindset as at all or did it just more proof of concept? Did that have anything substantial? Do you guys are just like this is going to we're going to be able to invest this and allow us to scale. I think it it was a big proof of concept.

[00:26:44]Uh because if you were to buy a house and start, you know, by the time you get this thing under agreement, let's just say you close it quick in three weeks, you go through title, by the time you do your renovation and sell that, there's another six months timeline usually tacked on to that um to get full get full through the renovation and sell the property. So be able to sell something and make the same profit margins that we were making on house flips in seven days. That's where the real proof of concept and the, you know, the really got my brain working that this is a really interesting path for us to continue.

[00:27:16]Quick pause. If you want to learn land investing the right way, check out Landportal University. It's a step-by-step training from real land investors, all built on the best platform in land investing, Landportal.

[00:27:28]You can get started for free. Link is in the description below or scan the QR code right here. Back to the episode.

[00:27:35]So, you guys invested in uh CRM uh some other marketing stuff it sounds like and uh did you guys invest at this point in any employees and you guys mentioned being able to outsource? Katie, you have the leadership background. What did you guys do from there?

[00:27:50]>> Yes. So, the in the very beginning it was just the two of us and somebody focused on SMS. Like that was it for months and months. I think that we were probably nine or so months in, right, Brian? When we ended up bringing on somebody to support me on the phones as well as handling some comping and due diligence and both the person who was doing SMS and comping and diligence, they were part-time. Um, so we were still picking up all of the slack nights, weekends, any other hours. we'd be eating dinner and sitting at the counter and comping properties, responding to people's booking appointments for myself. Um, but that was our first time that we started to invest in like a team. And I was finally able to start to just step back a little bit from those like frontline conversations via phone and start to really just mature myself into more of a closer role. Um, granted, depending upon the type of property, Brian may look at it and say, "All right, Katie, you're calling this one." Um, but I think that moment for me was, okay, this is really, really tough right now, but if we can nail this foundation down, this is temporary.

[00:29:18]This is temporary. So, we will be able to over time become more and more irrelevant for the day-to-day if we do this right. Um, and those two hires are still with us today.

[00:29:35]>> There's a lot of people who hire too fast and I think you guys definitely didn't do that based on what you're saying. Um, but there's a lot of people who like get into the business, they know nothing about the business, they send 5,000 texts out, they respond themselves, and they're like, "Yeah, I need to outsource this." What do you guys say to those people? Like, because there is so much there's so much more value beyond the money you save from not hiring someone or um the time you whatever it is, there's so much value in you fully understanding your business, what type of person you need to put in this role as well when you do hire. Can you talk a little bit about that, Katie, in terms of not hiring too fast, even if you had the financial capabilities? It sounds I'm sure you guys could have hired a texter or something earlier financially, but it just didn't make sense for you guys.

[00:30:19]>> Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, I think for us, it's very similar to what I had said earlier. We were learning the business, too.

[00:30:31]And for all of my years within corporate leadership, I was excellent at my job as a vice president because I had done the job and I knew it inside and out. I could basically do it with my eyes closed. And people respected me because they knew where I had come from.

[00:31:00]I wasn't just coming in and saying here's what you need to do and this is why you need to do it because right or here's your job. I am able to through the art of storytelling be able to say here's what I used to do. This is why it works. This is why we do things here.

[00:31:18]Okay. we had a track record of success from doing things a certain way and so people were able to much more quickly just get on board with that. Um, I definitely find and we made a mistake in the beginning. You know, we were two months in. We hired somebody. They had said, "Hey, I know how to make all the campaigns. I can, you know, manage everything within the texting software.

[00:31:48]Um, you guys aren't going to have to think about a thing." And I'm like, "Thank gosh." Um, I'm so happy we even spent the first couple of months doing it on our own. Um, but that kind of nip, you know, that was a bite in our butt.

[00:32:00]We thought, oof, okay, we need to be way more involved transactionally than we thought that we needed to. And that was a mental shift. So, every hire thereafter, like, we're not hiring somebody unless we've done the job and we know how to do it effectively and we can really just coach to that success.

[00:32:19]I I see so many people hire and then like tell the kind of like what you guys did um but the person sold themselves a little more and then like they the first day on the of the job they're like yeah you got to go figure out how to do this.

[00:32:30]Um it doesn't work well like in terms of and you guys obviously it it's a common common mistake is like trying to expect a employee to be like the entrepreneur because that's kind of what you're like set all this up do all this um it doesn't really matter their love or anything like that. How has uh Brian, how has your business evolved? I mean, we kind of went six months in and then just kind of hit a hard stop there. How has your business evolved in the last two years?

[00:32:56]>> Yeah, a business has evolved now. What do we have? Uh Katie may have to help me on the numbers of the team members here, but uh we have nine team members outside of ourselves. So, 11 in total. So, the business has evolved. We've got two uh lead managers that handle appointment settings and call ones. And then we have a just hired a US-based acquisitions manager that does you know certain you know market value and above and uh all of our subdivide opportunities. So some of the more difficult things it takes a lot more sales acumen to get across the finish line and that's what that person does for us. Then we have two texturers and uh we have a data person and then we have somebody that helps assist me on the transaction dispo side. Mhm.

[00:33:41]>> How um where are you guys hiring from?

[00:33:43]Not in terms of like location because I know South American like that you can get great employees there. All obviously Philippines um you can get employees there. South Africa where where European is it a is it widespread? Is there one spot like we're getting really quality candidates here?

[00:33:59]>> Yeah. I I think it really depends on the the skill set. Um and I'll take this one because I do with my recruitment background I do the majority of the of the hiring here. Um, it's funny because the only person that's actually in the US right now is our newest hire. Um, otherwise we're all spread out across the world. So, Brian and I are in Central America right now. And then we have a handful of employees uh they saw the Philippines. Um, we have a couple employees they Egypt as well as another in Pakistan. Um and and for us, we people can live anywhere they want in the entire world as long as your skill set matches and you fit our culture. Um and you're willing to work the the hours really. Um so yeah, >> talk a little bit about the culture you've been built and like how you've built it because it can be difficult when you're when everyone's remote, no one's uh no one's met anybody else. I don't know, maybe you met your acquisition manager. Um but talk about building the culture, the importance of it and seeing when there's gaps as well.

[00:35:09]>> Yeah, absolutely. Um so for us, I I think we have the best team ever. I think our team truly like loves each other. We care about each other like as a family. Um there is so much communication between everybody. Um, I was talking to somebody the other day and I had said, you know, it's really cool to look back on every person that we have hired and we have a 0% employee chosen exit rate. Nobody has ever left our company because they were unhappy um or because they wanted to make more money somewhere else. Um, and for that, like we really pride ourselves on that, but I don't think it's rocket science to create a great company culture. Um, effective communication.

[00:36:10]Everybody has a voice. People feel as though they can come to Brian and I and tell us what they think, how they feel, suggestions about their role, suggestions about the business. We won't say yes to everything, absolutely not.

[00:36:23]but we will listen to them and we will explain to them effectively why or why not we're choosing to make the decision that we are making. Um it's fun every morning all it is is memes in our Discord. So we've got pigs saying good morning and cats saying good morning. Uh we're all talking to each other. Um and I think too with the cadence that we've created within meaningful meetings, not just meetings to have meetings, um there's a lot of cross departmental communication and it's all effectively done. But I think at the end of the day, we genuinely like each other. We may not be best friends, but we all respect each other for who we are and what we're trying to accomplish. Um, I'm going to keep going because this is such a fun topic for me. Um, but we I think that we do things that other investors maybe don't do with their team. Um, they have paid major US holidays. They have paid PTO days. Um, they have a base, but they also have a team commission plan that gets everybody rowing in the same direction. They're not fighting over leads. What's good for the goose is good for the ganzer, right? So, we make decisions about what is going to be best for the business and everybody else. We celebrate people being able to get an apartment for the first time in their entire life. They've got a leaky roof and they can fix it for their family. It might not even be their house, might be their parents. Um we are truly trying to inspire people to live a life that they otherwise may have not had the opportunity to do so. We want to see them succeed and that can be whatever that definition is for them but in return that is so gratifying for us to be able to to give that opportunity.

[00:38:24]>> Yeah. That's a it's a it's a business type like it I think especially overseas employees like they get a feeling when they're working for someone who's like a soloreneur even if it's not like even if there's other people like everyone kind of seems like an individual opposed to like where you guys have built an actual business around what you're doing with real employees with a real culture everything like that.

[00:38:45]>> Brian how has your deal types changed over the last uh two years or so? You talked about building the team everything like that. What have you guys changed in terms of different deals you're trying to go after, ways you're going after these?

[00:38:58]>> Yeah, we we put subdivides on hold. We wanted to, you know, build some capital up. We wanted to proof of concept in the first year. And I would say it took us about a year to 18 months uh being in this business to get comfortable, you know, hire a few coaches along the way that taught us what we didn't know about subdivides. Um, looking back, I think we could have learned a lot of that on our own and and just been involved in a little bit a few more groups to learn that at the end of the day, but, you know, we were just, you know, slow progress on that component. But now we're looking at most things that most land flippers look at. You know, of course, we're doing our traditional flips. Um, but we love looking at subdivides. We've got, you know, four in the queue at the moment and potentially a fifth that we're working on this week.

[00:39:44]So, you know, if we can maintain the subdivide component, which really excites me. That's I love getting that excitement out of the business. I like to see a deal. I like to understand the engineering. I like to overcome those obstacles in that kind of in that way.

[00:39:59]And then the flips are just a good way to maintain and keep the operating expenses uh flowing and whatnot. So, we're really doing those two types of deals right now. looking at other things in the future um for reasonzoning and whatnot, but as of now those we kind of staying in those two lanes and and finding good success in them.

[00:40:19]>> And when we talked on the phone the other day, Brian, remind me if I'm wrong, but I think you said you've only done one double close to date. Is that wrong? Am I correct on that or no?

[00:40:27]>> No, that is the correct. Yeah, we we dabbled in it and few haven't worked out. So, you know, we're opening that um chapter up a little bit. You're right on that. Um, but you know, we've got one on the market now as a double close and actually uh just missed a phone call from a realator that is going to list a second one. So, something that we're utilizing to see again how it works, but we're not going to bet the house on that. I think something I told you earlier too is we're still seeing great margins on our flips. So, we're buying them and in the first quarter, everything that went full cycle, we're able to get our flips at 51% of market value. So, we still think that that flipping arena is very strong. Um, and Subdivide U is a great supplement to all of that. And then a little double closes here and there if we can make them work.

[00:41:15]But, you know, everybody's trained on that double close um sales script and the flip script.

[00:41:22]>> Yeah. I think there's so much I don't know if you want to say talk whatever where people think you can't buy for a steep discount. Like you, as you just said, like you're still buying at 51% of market value. That's an insane amount of margin there. And like, but how have you guys seen the business kind of mature over the last two years? Kind of leading on that because a lot of people, like I said, are saying like, "Yeah, you can't buy under 80%." Or whatever it is, like it's just not true. Um, but how in other ways have you guys seen the business mature over the last two years? Not your business, the business model.

[00:41:54]>> Yeah. Do you want me to take it a little bit?

[00:41:57]>> Yeah. Yeah, sure.

[00:41:59]>> So, the the one thing I just wanted add and then I will I'll I promise I'll answer the question too is that I think something that we really tried to do with intention is to avoid the shiny object syndrome because it is very easy to say we're going to do double close, we're going to do subdivides, we're going to get into messy title, we're going to do flips, and we're going to do whatever is just going to work sort of for the deal. Um, and we really stuck with flips for a very long time because we wanted to make sure that our foundation was really rock solid with that. And we felt as though if we had the sales acumen down to be able to consistently convert within the flip side that when we knew that we were ready enough that we had the right team and the right structure and the right tech to be able to support bringing on subdivides and then eventually revisiting double closes that that would almost be an easier exit path than what we were consistently used to. Um I think that what we have seen within our business to be very fair is consistency over the last year. Um I think you have to do more marketing. You have to speak with more sellers to be able to net conversations that are going to land you where you want to be profitabilitywise.

[00:43:38]But the deals are still there.

[00:43:42]It's what happens in the conversations that are going to dictate how successful or not successful you are and how long it's going to get a deal to a place where you can see the profitability being readily available. Um there is more competition.

[00:44:01]You just have to be stronger and better and more resilient.

[00:44:05]Um, and I think if people continue to invest in training and coaching and developing and honing in on those core foundational skills that they will be able to see it through. But I do think that you do need more marketing, more conversations to get to where you need to be. And you have to know how to handle those conversations to net the result that you are looking for.

[00:44:32]>> Any different perspective there, Brian?

[00:44:34]No, I I agree with a lot of that. Some of the, you know, the subdivide sellers, right, they they can go to market for pretty much what you're asking for, right? So, you need to position yourself in such a way and have those long drawn out conversations over sometimes multiple months. Uh, it's taken us to get the most recent one and multiple scenarios we've seen like that along the way. So, you know, having that really good rapport, building the trust, having those difficult conversations, and sometimes have them for months is where we found some of the bigger, more larger profit deals have come from for us. So, you know, just good sales training, a lot of uh rapport building, and positioning yourself with a lot of integrity and honesty um along the way has really helped us kind of maintain this business model that we've been doing for the last two and a half years.

[00:45:21]>> For sure. I have had more uncomfortable conversations in the last like nine months than I have in the last three for sure.

[00:45:31]>> Wow.

[00:45:32]>> Yeah, that that's a good point. And I think the willingness to like having those conversations is so important today and a lot of people shy away from those uncomfortable conversations and whatever it's negotiating with a seller, whatever it is. Um but uh I love the data you brought there, Brian, in ter like you guys are still buying at 50% of market value. Going on from there, Brian, you have a background in financing, that kind of stuff, or funding that that stuff. How important is for Let's talk about new people.

[00:45:58]People have been in land less than a year. Like, how important are those funding relationships, uh, getting funding, everything like that?

[00:46:05]>> I think they're extremely important. Um, I think in the beginning, you're doing a, you know, a lot of JV opportunities.

[00:46:11]You're you're you're learning and you're asking for money at the same time. They require just a little bit more give and take in those type of things. But maybe that relationship does mature to like an interest or or promisory note situation where you know the lender still makes a really good return but you know there's a little bit more profit at the end of the day for the land flipper itself. So establishing that early on a lot of us don't come into this business with you know not only the the money to do all the marketing and set up all the business systems and operations and also invest in our own deals. So, it's a lot of people are looking for that funding early on and I believe that's extremely important to nurture those relationships and take very very good care of those lenders to where you're going to work with those people for years and we've got the same lenders that we've worked with two and a half years ago that are always looking for more opportunities to invest with us.

[00:47:04]>> And it's like there are comm community not communities but there are networks of people who lend money for this stuff.

[00:47:10]Um, but that being said, like those networks are going to at least at first, like it's going to be a lot more expensive on the land flipper, um, getting funding from the start versus as you build those relationships, as you maybe it's with those people, maybe it's with other people, you can get your lending fees down for sure. Again, where they're still coming back for deals because that's the key. You don't want to beat them down where it's like it doesn't make sense for them to invest in Brian or Katie's deal. Um, you want it to be profitable for them to a degree, obviously. Um but yeah, those relationships are really, really key. Um you talked about, let's talk about your first quarter, Brian, because you have first quarter numbers. Let's talk about those first quarter numbers.

[00:47:49]>> Yeah. And just real quick going back to the uh networks. I was going to mention that and that's a good point. Like I'm in Action Academy. You know, we've got 600 plus members in there where the opportunities to to gain financing are amazing. So if you can find yourself a relationship group similar to that where you know other people are understanding what you're doing, they know you personally um those you know investing opportunities for me have been great for those relationships. Um but yeah, first quarter for us um is a lot of kind of rollover from the previous quarter uh or previous year. Um but it was a very good start to our year and has given us a lot of good momentum into uh the remaining part of the year. So, we've done net profit, so net net to us a little over $200,000 in our first quarter. Um, we don't expect that to continue every quarter this year, but we're still, you know, very positive on the year, our pipeline, and managing our disposition process to maintain as many of those deals as possible.

[00:48:49]>> What's uh what's kind of next for your business, Katie, as far as like you guys growing it out? I know you guys talked about subdividing that kind of stuff, but is there are there any other big things that you guys are kind of looking at implementing in the next uh I don't know next six months of this year?

[00:49:04]Um, Brian, I'll let you take it from like a a tech perspective and a strategy, but I I honestly I mean for us at this point, we are still trying to do exactly what we did from the very beginning, which is become as irrelevant as possible within our business without sacrificing any of the key pillars within the business. So without sacrificing culture, without sacrificing team members, without sacrificing profitability and deals. Um and so we are continuing to look to grow the team um this year. Um, I know that we may increase marketing uh to be able to support those hires, but those hires are going to be very specific to again enable us to continue to step away so that at the end of the day, we want to be involved, but we want to be involved at the highest level where a we are making the greatest impact on the business and that's because we love what we are doing. If you love what you do, you do it with passion and excitement and you give it 200%.

[00:50:20]And that's where we want to be so that we can continue to travel and spend so much time with our kids and not have to um say, "Hey, is it the kids or am I choosing the business today?" No, we've made all the right decisions within the business that we able to choose the kids and do this with them without the expense of the business. And if we can get there over this next year, like that to us would be the truest definition of success. We don't need to make millions and millions of dollars. We want a consistent comfortable income. We want our kids, us, and everybody on our team to be essentially like living their best life and at like the highest level of joy.

[00:51:07]>> Brian, I know you uh are doing a lot with AI and I want to get into that.

[00:51:11]Yes. Um because I know that's a big and I think that's what Katie was referencing there um with the tech stuff. What What are you doing with AI within your business and what are you kind of building up to? Yeah. So, we're using AI and I think you know a lot of um you know new newer land people or definitely more mature you know people have been in this business for multiple years um I think there is going to be a fork in the road in the near future where the people that have adapted to the AI components and things that you can build within claude and and the things that we all know kind of are available to us now um there's going to be a fork in the road in my opinion that the people that are using it to gain you know, small consistencies in their business, remove some of the manual components of the business and uh assist in their acquisitions and dispositions.

[00:52:01]There's going to be an advantage created there where the people that are not adapting versus the people that are are the people that are adapting are going to succeed and have a little bit more success in that. And what I'm building in the background is, you know, scraping tools and different things to look at, you know, online stuff. I mean onmarket things to get a better pulse of what's available to me with the land portal API and figure out what what deals that are on the market have adequate road frontage and I can run those through an underwriting model all done through AI right I can do something similar to that is something that we built we've got a API connection to our um CRM so it allows us to look deeper into our CRM and understand everything that's happening minuteby minute in our CRM which we feel like is a gap in our business where you know there's probably a deal multiple deals in our CRM that we just aren't aware of. Now we have 347,000 contacts in there and if we can find some you know deals out of that I mean I mean those are the kind of things that I think that are going to set us apart from other businesses in the future and you can see that I'm excited because my pace of of speech increases.

[00:53:11]No, it's incred and it can it lines up perfectly with with your guys' family goals, everything like that. And there's definitely and I want you to talk about this, Brian, because there's definitely a balance with AI and you see people like whether it's I in my personal opinion, I think humanto human interaction I think is so important in closing deals. I think there's things in a business that should not be automated.

[00:53:33]I think there's conversa like conversation should not in my opinion again be automated. like you're trying to get someone to sell their piece of land, you better be talking to that person as a human. But talk about that, Brian, because there's definitely a balance. And Katie, you can probably touch on it as well in terms of a sales aspect, but there's definitely a balance on what you should try to use it with versus things that are kind of like off boundary, at least for this point.

[00:53:56]>> Yeah, I think two most important people that we speak to, maybe three, is your seller, of course, needs to be a human interaction, and then your real estate agent. that rapport with those two people are going to help you immensely obviously to buy the property and then to sell the property and then anything on the back end with your title companies all that can be somewhat automated responses you can go deeper into that path I mean your emails could be you know a little bit more automated and you could get a recap of your day there's a lot of little tools like that but yeah there's there's a point too in which you get too involved in it and you're building something that it takes you away from the business and I found that to be somewhat of a an addiction at times Um but yeah, I think if you can automate a lot of manual tasks, um you know, to-do lists, uh chat bots and and different AI agents that are helping you in in various areas. I mean, I I built the Chrome extension that helps us comp.

[00:54:48]Um and just little things like that that that can eliminate doubt and and make your jobs just slightly easier. But there's definitely a relationship, you know, component to this business that needs to be maintained at all times. I I mean I think when you're trying to automate something like you think about what's taking a lot of time, what's kind of redundant um on a day-to-day basis and then kind of start there. It's always a good whether it's email responses or cleaning up your inbox or just start simple I think when people are building out because like you said I've done it too. Um that's why we're doing a lot of education on doing stuff within AI through LAN portal right now.

[00:55:22]We're doing a lot of education on it because you can go down a rabbit hole then you're like what am I even getting?

[00:55:26]What is this giving to me? like I don't I don't need this information. Uh because you want it to be digestible for sure. Katie, I assume you're not building AI agents, sales agents to kind of replace your employees, right?

[00:55:37]>> No, absolutely not. No. And to be honest, I think that that is a common fear. um we're we're hearing it across the board and um certainly had to have uh conversations with the team to let them know that everything that Brian is building is with the fullest intention to support them. So to make their them faster, right? To make them more efficient, to be able to have their focus be pinpointed so that at the end of the day, they can have more conversations with the right sellers and it's really just to support the human interaction. And now now they know >> now they know that they've been using these tools and the feedback has been phenomenal.

[00:56:29]Um, and so the the support there is is pretty wild to see what you can truly build >> from an employee perspective like using it like they should be using it and like learning about it to make themselves better, make themselves more efficient, make themselves more valuable to the company, to themselves. Um, so yeah, I think it's really important from because I think the employees that are gonna struggle are ones that are fighting it a little more and not like optimizing it, using it, everything like that because it definitely can be a tool within their tool belt as well. Um, as we finish off here guys, first off, I really appreciate the time. Like this is a incredible story. Like it is a it's like a it's like a book that's going to be written down the line your guys' life.

[00:57:11]Everything like that going from COVID quitting job, traveling the world, everything like that. It's really cool to see. Um, what advice do you guys have for new land investors right now? Uh, people just getting into the business.

[00:57:22]Just a short piece of advice from from from each of you.

[00:57:26]>> I think um that first six months is you're going to learn a lot about the business. I think if you can, you know, work towards getting one deal under agreement over that time period and learning everything you can about that business systems processes wise to begin hiring out not too fast but at the right pace and whatever marketing channel you choose.

[00:57:50]Um, hopefully it affords you the opportunity to see a lot of comping, a lot of land, a lot of understanding of what you're going to be looking at here long term because I think if you can digest a lot of information in those first six months, get something under agreement and get it kind of working towards a full cycle deal, um, you'll really understand what it's going to take to do this long term. And just know that those beginning stages are just a stepping stone. They work for us. They work for every single business that starts out. Nobody starts with a pipeline of deals that they're working right off the bat. It is a, you know, a a fun, slow, interesting uh process along the way to then hopefully land you in Costa Rica with your family and travel the world >> amongst the monkeys. I love it. Um the monkeys in your background. Um yeah, I I it's crazy to be able to to see what you guys have done. For sure. Katy Katy, anything to add to that?

[00:58:45]>> Yeah, absolutely. Um, I would tell people to be realistic with the goals that you have, specifically if you are looking to replace you or your family's income. So, be very realistic about that. And then as you start to take steps to grow the business, be very honest with yourself as well. Um, and the last thing that I would say is get support. There are so many different people out there that are willing to support you, coach, train, mentor. You know, there's opportunities for oneonone. There's a lot of different groups out there that essentially teach people how to do this. You can speed up your ramp period significantly if you're surrounding yourself with the right people. So, it may seem like it is a large financial investment, but if you look at us, we've had four or five coaches in just three years. Um, and they were all very specific as to why and when we did that. But that certainly helped speed up our ability to launch the business, grow the business, and become more and more relevant within the business. Um, just keep going. Like, it's gonna be gritty. You just got to do it. And and this first six months thing, like not every win is a deal. You know what? Like people a lot of times go through the first couple months and they're like, I didn't do a deal. I did a deal. Whatever it is, and like everything is based on that outcome opposed to like how many steps you took forward in the business in terms of learning, making adjustments. Um maybe mistakes you made and learned from. Um so that's one thing I try to hammer down. It's hard because people are investing a lot of money into marketing, into software, into maybe coaching, whatever it is. But there are wins outside of deals. Um, even if it's like it's a process for sure. And you guys didn't build a $215,000 net in the first quarter. Like you that was built over the last three years. Your results this first quarter were not just the things you did in the first quarter of this year, obviously. Um, where can people find you? Is there do you guys have any public uh social media, anything like that?

[01:01:01]>> Yes. So, we are on Instagram. Super simple. It's just Patriot Plots.

[01:01:09]So, you can find us there. Um or certainly reach out via email. Mine is Katie Katieplots.com or also on just www.patriotplots.com.

[01:01:25]And Brian's the same. Just Brian with an I atriotblots.com.

[01:01:30]>> We'll uh we'll link everything in the description so you guys don't have to write that down or maybe you guys already wrote it down. Um but appreciate you guys coming on. Katie, Brian, thank you so much. Really cool story. We'll definitely do a follow followup here in the next year or so. Um enjoy the rest of your time in Costa Rica. We'll see you guys next time.