Gary Vee Predicted This Wine Brand Could Hit $1 Billion | Franzese Wines CEO Samvel Hakobyan

Added: 2026-06-04

[00:00:00]Most people stop when the odds are 99% against them. The guests on this show are the ones who think, "But that 1%."

[00:00:08]When I was following the wine brand, I had no idea that the CEO of Francy's wines is Armenian.

[00:00:15]>> So I now I see where a lot of the content comes from cuz you talk a lot about the origins of wine making and the oldest winery being in Armenia. So, how did this even come about?

[00:00:30]>> That's a great question, son. Uh, so basically when Armenia went to war in 2020, at the time I was running a marketing agency and it was a pretty successful agency, but when the war happened, it really broke my heart of why does nobody care about us? Why is nobody paying attention to what's happening? And then I asked the question, well, who do people really pay attention to? They don't pay attention to beggars. They don't pay attention to those in need. They pay attention to those that can create, those that brought value to the world. And the example I use is if we have a homeless person standing on the street with a sign for help, not a lot of people are going to stop by to help. And we see that happen every day. Put Elon Musk there, put Jeff Bezos there, and you're going to have a line out the door of people that want to take a photo with them, let alone help. And so the question came, how do we show the world the value that we've brought to it? And when I discovered that Armenia made wine making, we invented wine making, the world's first vineyards were discovered in Armenia, I said, why is this not in the United States, we have to show the world what we've done, the value we've brought in order for the world to care about us. And so at that time, I decided to sell my business to my partner and we started Francy's Wine. Story behind that, when I was 19 years old, I reached out to Mr. Michael. I was a big fan of his. I was 10 years old when I first heard his testimony and we developed a relationship. He became sort of like a mentor and friends.

[00:01:57]>> Wait, wait, wait, hold on. So, you are a fan of his when you're 10 years old.

[00:02:01]What exactly do you see that sparks interest in you?

[00:02:05]>> Well, I grew up in a Christian family and a Christian today and when I watch and at the time I loved Vogge was around, which I'm sure a lot of the Armenian audience knows about the uh TV series that came out. Is that like a mobster kind of TV series?

[00:02:20]>> Yeah. I remember when I would visit my grandparents house in LA, 8:00 p.m.

[00:02:25]every house would have it on the TV and the song would start.

[00:02:28]>> Uh, so it was very popular and at the time I was intrigued and I love the mob style and it wasn't necessarily the violence. The movie did a great job of portraying standing for what's right, standing for righteousness and a lot more of thinking. So I got intrigued by it and then here was somebody that left the mob and found God. So I got a chance to have best of both worlds and that really intrigued me and I had a dream of one day meeting with him. I even wrote it on my vision board. One day I'm going to meet with Michael Frances and get a photo with him and that one day uh here we are today.

[00:02:58]>> So then how do you end up meeting with him?

[00:03:01]>> Okay. So there's this is a long story in itself too. When so when I was 14 years old, my dad was a delivery driver at Papa John's and my mom was a cashier at Walmart. The store ends up going bankrupt and it closes down. And my dad's left without a job.

[00:03:18]Two immigrants. They really didn't speak English at the time. And he says, "You know what? We're gonna go and try to take over the store." And they fly out to Kentucky. They don't go through the whole franchise process, none of it. And John ends up liking them, Papa John. And so he gave them the franchise and said, "Hey, but who's going to run it? You guys don't really speak English that well." They said, "Well, we have a 14-year-old son." And he said, "Well, he's not even in the legal age, but you guys do what you got to do. I have a good feeling about it. So, I dropped out of high school and got in and started working at a young age and I fell in love with the world of business. Within two years, we became the number one store in Northern California and they flew me out to corporate event and all of this stuff and I got exposed to the business world at a young age.

[00:04:01]Fast forward, my dad decides to help some family members. He brings them over from Russia to the United States. Things really don't work out. We sort of get backstabbed. We are in a lot of debt.

[00:04:10]And at the time I'm about 19 years old.

[00:04:13]So I decide to go and get a door-to-d dooror sales job so I can make money to help support the family but also buy a ticket to go to an event where Mr. Michael was going to be a speaker at.

[00:04:25]So I go to the owner of the company who's a friend of mine. Now we've become great friends and I said, "Hey, there's this event where Mr. Michael is going to be a guest speaker at. What do I need to do for you guys to buy me a ticket so I could go and hear him speak?"

[00:04:38]>> Let's also point out which event it is.

[00:04:40]is Patrick Bit David's the vault.

[00:04:42]>> The vault conference.

[00:04:43]>> Yeah. Yes. Which he does annually?

[00:04:45]>> He does annually. And this was the first time he did it.

[00:04:48]>> No, >> it's the first. Yeah. It's not the That's the first time he did.

[00:04:52]>> That was the first conference he was doing.

[00:04:53]>> Okay. And so you just know that Michael's going to be there. And so Wait, am I supposed to call him Mr. Michael, too? Why do you call him Mr. Michael? Do you guys have a formality?

[00:05:02]>> No, no, no. Everybody calls him Michael.

[00:05:04]People younger than me call him Mike, but it just uh I still have the tremendous amount of respect for him.

[00:05:08]So, when you guys are chilling, having your wine, are you still calling him Mr. Michael when you guys are talking? Whoa.

[00:05:14]>> We are actually thinking about launching a line now called Mr. Michael. So, we'll see.

[00:05:19]>> Okay. Okay. So, you decided to go to Patrick David's event, the vault. It's expensive and you're not in a position where you could afford it at this time.

[00:05:29]>> Correct.

[00:05:29]>> So, what do you do?

[00:05:31]>> So, I went to the CEO and I said, "Hey, what do I need to do for you to buy me a ticket to go to this event?"

[00:05:36]And he said, 'Well, Sam, you know, as you know, it's expensive, this and that.

[00:05:39]I'm like, what's the number I have to hit? So, mind you, I have no clue about construction. No idea about it, but I go and I have this goal of going and attending that event. And he said, "Well, our goal, our record is $100,000.

[00:05:54]If you could do $100,000 in the month of April, in May, we will go." Like, well, Vase, it's May 1st, the event, so I got to do it before April 14. And praise God, I did about $148,000, which was enough for him to say, "You know what?

[00:06:07]I'm going to come with you."

[00:06:08]>> Wow.

[00:06:08]>> So, they end up buying the tickets. We drive to Sacramento to fly to Dallas.

[00:06:13]The first flight gets cancelled.

[00:06:16]We miss the second one. Uh, no, sorry.

[00:06:19]The first CL flight we miss, the second one gets cancelled. So, now Vasgan's like, "Oh, Sam, you know what? It's okay. Let's just fly tomorrow." I'm like, "No, let me drive to San Francisco and we'll fly out of San Francisco. It's about a 2-hour drive from where we are.

[00:06:32]He says, "Okay, deal." So, we drive and we miss the flight there. So, we have to take a redeye flight and we end up staying and Vase at this point's like, "Man, why did I agree to this thing?"

[00:06:42]And I'm like, "Yes, I'm going to go and meet uh with Mr. Michael." So, with that being said, we take our flight. As soon as our Uber is pulling up, he's stepping out to get inside that Uber. The same car that dropped us off was the same car that was going to pick him up. And I see him and I immediately run up to him. I'm like, "Oh my god, you're Mr. Michael. We flew from Sacramento. I came to meet you. He's like, "Settle down, big guy."

[00:07:04]I was about the same size at 19.

[00:07:07]What's this all about? I share with him that, "Hey, I I had a goal. I came to meet you and could I have your phone number?" He looks at me. He's like, "How old are you?" I'm like, "19. And you want my number?" I'm like, "Yes." He's like, "Okay, I'll give it to you." And he gave it to me. And from there, I reached out to him. He was getting involved in the pizza business. I had the connections at Papa John's. I introduced him to the former COO, president of Papa John's and he said, "Sam, from this day on, uh, consider me a friend." It was supposed to be a 30-minute meeting. We were together for three and a half hours and that's where our friendship started.

[00:07:40]>> So, why were you so determined to meet him? It's one thing to be a fan, but to go through all of this just to meet him.

[00:07:46]So, you had some sort of a business plan.

[00:07:49]>> There was no business plan. And Sona, you know, I have this theory that when you have strong conviction in something, it's part of your destiny. Go for it. I didn't think of it at the time. I've just always gone forward. But my whole life and all the success that the company's had has all been miracles of accident. One accident after the other.

[00:08:11]Like if we were to dive into it, every chain account we've landed has its own story like that.

[00:08:16]>> So then when you meet him, the first time you call him, what do you say?

[00:08:21]So I said, "Mr. Michael, could I come down to Newport Beach and have lunch with you?" And it took him a couple of days. He's like, "Excuse me, who is this?" So I sent him a photo of us together. And he said, "Okay, fine. I'll have my assistant set something up."

[00:08:36]>> I mean, a lot of people must go up to him and want to hang out. Do you know what it is that actually made him agree to it?

[00:08:43]you know, he really respected the age that I was at the time because most people are in their early 30s, late 20s, 40s that not a 19-year-old. And at the time, his YouTube wasn't as big as it is. They had just started it. So, it was a perfect opportunity. And like I said, you know, a lot of times Gaka puts something in someone's heart where they don't even know and they agree to something.

[00:09:08]>> So, when you have this three-hour lunch with him, what are you guys talking about? Are you making any business plans at the time or are you just chatting getting to know each other?

[00:09:17]>> Getting to know each other. I had about 10 pages of questions I had for him like how did the mob run business? How did you guys recruit? It was all just questions about business.

[00:09:26]>> So when the 30 minute hit and he saw we're only on question number four, he called and he changed up the meeting.

[00:09:32]Said, "Okay, Sam, I want to make sure at least I could get half the questions you have written down."

[00:09:36]>> Okay. So then do you at what point do you start talking about the pizza business and kind of are you involved in that business or are you just helping him?

[00:09:47]>> So at the time I knew that's something he was doing from the content that he had produced he spoke about it and one of the philosophies my dad taught me at a young age is always give >> without even having an ask. There's a theory of give, give and then ask. It's like no, give without it because as soon as you have that intention of an ask, >> they're going to feel it.

[00:10:07]>> Give value. If you really love someone, >> give them something. And if it ever comes across at the time, it wouldn't cross my wildest dreams that we would we would be business partners >> and doing what we are doing today. I just wanted to help him cuz I loved him.

[00:10:20]>> So, you helped him and you're not involved in the pizza business, >> but you just continue the friendship.

[00:10:26]you're hanging out and then at what point does your friendship turn into a partnership?

[00:10:31]>> So when Armenia went to war and I decided that I want to do something for my country because technically I was at the age where I was going to be at that war if my family didn't come to the United States and I was going to die on the field. So I said, "Okay, well if I'm dead on the field there because that's where I was supposed to be, then everything I do from now on needs to help serve my country. Everything I do needs to tie back into making Armenia great." so my kids don't have to go through what I went through.

[00:11:00]And then I I had a marketing agency. So I went from being in construction sales to companies reaching out to me for sales consulting. And I realized that they didn't have a sales problem. They had a marketing problem. They were calling people and saying, "Hey, would you like a free roof and solar?" People would say yes. And they would go and try to sell a $100,000 package. I said, "Guys, it's not your sales team is great. You'd have a marketing problem." Well, Sam, can you help us with that? And I said, "Sure."

[00:11:26]Next, I went home, spent a couple days just learning how to market on Google and Facebook and I started my agency there. So when I connected the two of them together, I was constantly giving support and then I was also helping with the YouTube channel, but it was all part of just providing help. With that, I realized that the marketing industry, uh, the wine industry is very, uh, behind when it comes to marketing.

[00:11:51]And if I wanted to bring Armenian wine to the United States, I couldn't do the same way everyone else is doing. I didn't want to just be in Glendale. If anything, we haven't marketed to the Armenian community at all.

[00:12:01]>> We've been very focused on the American consumer. We've been focused on the American markets because we want the world to know about Armenia. Armenians already know about Armenia. They don't really appreciate it as much as they should. A lot of a lot of them. Some do, but unfortunately a lot don't. So, we said, how do we bring this appreciation to people that aren't Armenians for them to get to know Armenia? So next time if we go to something, they're like, "No, we want to stand next to that country."

[00:12:24]>> Well, let's also take a couple of steps back. Why wine specifically?

[00:12:29]>> We invented wine- making. So from a marketing perspective, if we were to bring water, what makes Armenian water special? What makes Armenian soda special? Well, there really isn't a key differentiator in the product.

[00:12:40]>> But wine, >> the water, >> the water. Yeah.

[00:12:43]>> Yeah. That's going to take a lot of work.

[00:12:44]>> Yeah.

[00:12:45]>> But wine, we invented wine making and it's the fourth most consumed liquid around the world. And there's no national Armenian wine brand.

[00:12:52]>> Oh, is it the fourth most consumed liquid in the world? Wow, >> that's that's amazing to know. And then you also, how do you choose what wine you bring over here? I think you have family in the wine- making business, right?

[00:13:06]>> So, when I when I decided to get into the business, I learned that my uncle's been a wine maker for about 25 years at >> You didn't know before that?

[00:13:14]>> I didn't really know what he really did.

[00:13:16]It's one of those family members where you would see him at an event, but you wouldn't know what they're really doing.

[00:13:20]And he was one of them like, "Oh, no way." So, my dad told me, and we said, "Okay, >> tell me more about his wine making in Armenia. Was it being produced in the markets there?"

[00:13:28]>> So, his big market was uh like a lot of the wineries in Armenia was selling to Russia and then to Europe as well. So, uh some of the wines he makes, especially non-alcohol, started spreading in Europe. And so he did have markets there, but business was starting to slow down because Armenia is becoming more pro- west. So their ties with Russia are being cut and there's a lot of politics. So the goal is first to become the number one brand and become that bridge for Armenia to be able to get to the American markets.

[00:13:57]>> How do you get Michael on board to be a partner in this venture with you?

[00:14:05]>> That's a great question. Uh they were doing their grand opening in Dallas, Texas. Their pizza first pizza store in Dallas. That was the first in Dallas, but they had a couple in other states. I flew out there and I spent a two full days just helping them with everything, getting ready for the launch, all of it.

[00:14:24]And then at the end, I said, "Mr. Michael, I got to ask you something.

[00:14:28]Here's what I want to do. I want to get into the wine business. Wine has been a symbol of transformation. Your life story is a story of transformation. what if we put the two together? He said, 'Well, Sam, I'm an Italian. I'm like, well, everybody's got Italian wine.

[00:14:42]Everybody's got wine from you'll be the first person to bring the world's first wine to the United States. He said, "You know what, Sam? I'm going to get into this business for you." And praise God for that. He said, "You're the product.

[00:14:53]I'm getting into it. This is the fastest handshake I've ever done on a business deal." Literally five minutes from sharing it with him to shaking hands.

[00:15:01]And then the next day, we filed for our entity, Francis Wine. So now tell me what exactly does this entail investments? I mean what are the first steps you take to actually having a wine business together?

[00:15:15]>> So we would have to form the entity all the legal structure like the licensing agreement and everything of that nature.

[00:15:20]Getting the TTB license there's a lot of licensing paperwork and uh so we just immediately went after the paperwork. We had the agreement who's going to do what? What are the roles and responsibilities?

[00:15:32]>> We came to agreement on everything. He's been a great partner, very easy with everything. He's put a lot of trust and so it was a really easy process for us to get started.

[00:15:40]>> So now, how about actually importing all that wine here? That's not an easy task.

[00:15:47]>> No, but uh we tried. There was a lot of uh ups and downs in the beginning. We did make mistakes and we didn't we had no clue. We thought you get a distributor and that's it. Couldn't be further from the truth. You got to support the distributor. You got to make the sales. So we just went through a process of iteration.

[00:16:03]>> What was the first massive mistake that you made?

[00:16:07]>> So I got a warehouse with no AC unit in in the middle of summer. And so all the money that I had that we put into the wine, three full containers, uh it all went bad within the first month >> and wine is really sensitive with temperatures, >> especially as you know from Armenia, we don't add sulfites in our wine and we go we don't add preservatives. So, there's a real natural wine- making process, which also means we're a lot more uh there's a lot more risk with temperature that it could damage the wine, >> which also means no headaches the next day.

[00:16:39]>> Exactly. Yes.

[00:16:41]>> Okay. So, then what happens now? You have to get a whole new batch. You just lost all this money. So, what's what's next?

[00:16:50]>> Well, uh I had to come up with a reason why we lost all this money.

[00:16:55]>> Were you honest about it?

[00:16:56]>> I was. Yes. And there was great well I was able to get more pull more levers.

[00:17:02]We were able to get the money and bring more product in.

[00:17:05]>> Mhm.

[00:17:05]>> And then Cisco became our first client.

[00:17:07]The gentleman that was from Papa John, Simon Smith, he helped us introduction to Cisco. Cisco Foods were just launching their wine program. So they were able to buy a lot of inventory from us. We became the first wine in the Cisco program. We started selling to a lot of the restaurants in Southern California. And then we realized we want to get into chains and then we got into Kroger. We were actually the first brand to get into Kroger with no prior sales data.

[00:17:33]>> What does that mean? Can you elaborate?

[00:17:35]>> So there was a gentleman who I looked at as a mentor. He had a successful vodka company. And he said, "Sam, you guys will never be able to get into Kroger."

[00:17:44]I'm like, "Why is that?" This was where we were already having a big fall off.

[00:17:47]He said, "Nobody cares about Armenia.

[00:17:48]Nobody knows where it is on the map."

[00:17:50]And so I wrote as he was saying it, my friend Sam, my best friend from childhood, he was right next to me and he saw me writing it down and I said, "Okay." And so after that, Sona for 9 months, my entire focus became to get into Kroger. But there was no other chain we were in. There was no other store. And I emailed every single day until the buyer said, "Okay, Sam, let's see what you have." Mr. Michael and I flew down. They loved the presentation.

[00:18:14]They had given us 30 minutes. They extended to an hour. They said, "We wish every brand would come in prepared the way you guys were prepared." And a day before that, out of the blue, USA Today wrote an article on us as the next billion-dollar wine brand.

[00:18:27]>> Wow. How did that happen?

[00:18:29]>> Just randomly. So, here I am driving to LA to pick up Mr. Michael first to fly to Ohio together and my friend texts me.

[00:18:37]He's like, "Sam, I didn't know you've made it." I'm like, "What are you talking about?" And he sends me an article from USA Today. The RA reader ordered our wines online, was a fan of Michael, and like you guys have the next big thing. And he wrote it down in the article. So when we went to the Kroger meeting, they actually had that article on the table. And so they didn't even talk about sales data in the meeting.

[00:18:57]>> I want to understand how you even get to emailing Kroger, though. I mean, first you have a bunch of wine in a warehouse.

[00:19:05]You have Michael Frances who is a brand on his own. And so you basically have an influencer. Now you have two really important things, but then how do you get distribution on such a big scale?

[00:19:18]How do you get into the stores? How do you make sure once they're in the stores, they're actually selling? How is all of that done?

[00:19:24]>> It was all a process of taking massive action and constantly iterating.

[00:19:28]>> And is it just you? Are you the one that's like fullon?

[00:19:31]>> I was driving this when we started. Yes, I I was in charge of sales and then my friend Sam came on as in charge of operation. So, in the beginning, it was literally just the two of us. Uh I would be focused on getting the sales. He would be focused on making sure the product goes out, whether it's online orders, whether it's deliveries, and then he started doing local sales in Sacramento.

[00:19:51]>> So, it was just basically the two of us.

[00:19:53]But when we got to Kroger, it was uh three people alto together on the team.

[00:19:57]>> What kind of experience do you have? How exactly are you taking care of sales? I wouldn't know where to start.

[00:20:04]>> So, uh I've I'm a fan of reading a lot and so reading through a lot of books, I got a chance to learn what's the right approach and then also getting mentors.

[00:20:15]I looked up on YouTube to learn about wine sales and whoever was making content, I would find their email. I would cold email them. I would cold call them to start learning from them in person. And >> so I it just became a process of constantly doing and constant getting better and then using the software to see when we emailed, did they open the email? Did they not open the email?

[00:20:34]>> Oh, >> if they didn't, that means the subject line was not interesting. If they did open it, then there's there and I got to continue.

[00:20:39]>> I didn't know that exists.

[00:20:41]>> Yes, >> you could do that.

[00:20:42]>> You could do that.

[00:20:43]>> So, you know, if they're just ignoring your email or if >> and you can see how many times they've opened, if they clicked on a link >> after this episode.

[00:20:51]>> Yes.

[00:20:52]>> Send that to me. I'd like to know. Okay.

[00:20:54]So that's cool. So you are on it. You are actually tracking everything and making sure >> there was no other for and here's the beautiful thing Sona is if if wine was just a business for us, I would have given up after the first couple months.

[00:21:09]I would have said, you know what, forget it. Let me move on. Like there's so much better opportunities. But it was more than that. It was about Armenia. How do we get the story of Armenia to become part of people's stories, part of their family, be something that's on their table for them to get interested in Armenia? Because as soon as we can do that, now there's investments that start to happen in Armenia. People start to read about Armenian history. We start to have impact culturally. They start wanting to eat Armenian food. The entire economy grows as a whole. And so having that as the why, it's like what Victor Frankle said. He said, "A man who has a big enough why can bear anyhow." And that's been the story for it.

[00:21:46]>> Oh, it's so great. And you know, I don't know how much you've delved into these topics, but when you look at even neighboring countries like Georgia, they've had major PR teams that create slogans for them, like Europe starts here. That's one of the slogans a PR team came up with. So, when you look at Armenia, we haven't done really well with marketing and PR throughout the years. And so people didn't even know that the oldest evidence of wine making like systematic systematic wine- making actually is from Armenia from the R& cave. And so you know like if we don't get the word out then who will?

[00:22:24]>> Exactly. And one one of the things I love that I had the fortune to read at a young age was Steve Jobs talking to his team and he said there's no magic black box that's going to shoot out these amazing products. we have to do it. Like the people in this room, we have to make the best product and take it to the world. So, I looked at that. It's like, hey, you know what? It's not like it just gonna happen. We have to do it.

[00:22:49]This is our generation. It's our time.

[00:22:51]Like what you're doing with your show, I'm a big fan. I love what you do.

[00:22:55]You're helping raise like when you had that sit down with Larry King and had him talk about the Armenian genocide.

[00:23:00]like these are the stuff and it's people like you that put Armenia before them that really want to grow Armenia and we're the ones that have to do it. And the unfortunate part is we as people have been like every time we're about to take a step the rug gets pulled under us. The genocide, World War II, we lost more people in World War II than a lot of the other countries. 300,000 men died for a war that wasn't even ours. the earthquake in Gumi, the war in 1993 of Arts, and then the war in 2020, the war in 2014. It's like every time we try to take a step up, we get a pulled and we get filled with fear, we get filled with the survival mindset, which doesn't let us grow.

[00:23:42]>> It's like when somebody's barely able to make their ends meet as monthtomonth on a paycheck, you can't go tell them, "Hey, I'm going to show you how to be a billionaire." This person's worrying about how am I going to make my rent?

[00:23:54]how am I going to pay for my water for my kids? Like take them to school? They don't care about it being a billionaire.

[00:24:00]And that's where we've been. We've just been in a survival mode and we haven't had the opportunity to think about showing who we really are.

[00:24:08]>> And uh and the PR that's been used against us this whole time has been like I look at our cartoons. We grew up watching Pulp Mcnik, Kajinazad. like it wasn't anything that's showing a hero like not Superman or Batman like people in the United States we've been there's been u reverse engineering in our psychology of like the wolf and the three sheep of like don't open the door to the stranger kajnaz somebody who's being scared somebody who eats a lot it's like these were the cartoons we grew up learning and we were just in the survival mindset people are bad don't open the door to your neighbor while in the United States you had somebody like Elon Musk Jeff Bezos watching Superman, Spider-Man, Batman, and then it's like you could do whatever you've set your mind to. And we haven't had that. So right now, this breakthrough that's happening in our culture, we have to take advantage of it.

[00:25:01]>> That's such an interesting observation.

[00:25:02]I actually wasn't aware of that because I didn't grow up on Armenian cartoons since I grew up in LA. But that's a very interesting observation. It's so important the way that we condition our kids to actually think. Before we continue, let's take a quick moment to chat with this episode sponsor, personal injury attorney and founder of a law, Anol Bundion. Congratulations on earning your title as super lawyer.

[00:25:26]>> Thank you. Personal injury is such a competitive field. Do you feel like you have to also work on visibility and self-marketing?

[00:25:34]>> Absolutely. I feel like it's a saturated field. What's one thing people say after a car accident that can completely ruin their case?

[00:25:42]>> I'm so sorry.

[00:25:45]So why that could be used against you?

[00:25:47]When you say things like that, the person on the other side is going to run to the insurance company and that's the first thing that they're going to say and that can be used against you. Have you ever had a client who messed up their case without realizing it? Yes.

[00:26:00]I've had a client who the insurance company likes to play games. They like to call the client and ask them questions and pretend that they didn't see representation letter on file. I had a client that actually spoke to them, gave a full statement to the insurance company, and completely ruined their case. I've heard that posting on Instagram can actually hurt your case.

[00:26:20]>> Absolutely. I've read that people actually get in trouble with gym selfies, too. Like, it seems so innocent, but they go to the gym, they take selfies, working out, and then they claim to be injured. And >> well, it does make sense. If you're injured, you should not be at the gym doing reps or lifting heavy weights. But you know people do that and actually it really hurts their case.

[00:26:40]>> Make sure to visit anlaw.law for more info. That's laww.law.

[00:26:46]Back to the wine making. So distribution you are on how are you kind of making sure that the wine is selling cuz once you get distribution you really have to make sure that you're marketing it properly because if it stays on the shelves then distribution's not going to mean much.

[00:27:04]>> Very true. And thank God we haven't lost a single account. We've we've grown.

[00:27:09]Walmart took us from 350 stores to 540.

[00:27:12]They brought us in last year. They took us in this time. Uh you know, there's we have to be proactive. To your point, the wine business, first you have to get the chain sale. Then you got to make sure the product sells off the shelf. And then you got to make sure you have the operations and the logistics to make sure that you're able to remain on the shelf. You don't lose the space. So for us, it became down to asking the chain like, "Hey, you want to bring us in?

[00:27:37]What can we do to support you?" And we did everything they said and more. And leveraging Mr. Michael's personality as well, leveraging his YouTube channel, running Facebook ads of like, "Hey, I'm going to be in the store doing a bottle signing." Uh, really just being proactive. And again, for us, it wasn't business. This is like a mission. We're at war. We have to fight and we have to win no matter what the cost is. So, when you just have that determination to do it, you're learning things as you go.

[00:28:05]I've done interesting story.

[00:28:08]Thanksgiving day, uh, a day before Thanksgiving, we had a demo scheduled at a Kroger store in Chicago, Mariano, 16:30 Clark Street, and the guy that was going to do the demo canceled a day before. So, we have two options. Either A, cancel the demo, which is completely understandable, or B, I have to fly out and do the demo myself. And so, we chose B. I flew out, did the demo. The store owner was so appreciative of that. Sona, he brought in case stacks and we've been the number one wine in that store in Chicago. Whoever comes and asks for wine, the manager is selling that because that story was so inspiring for him. Nobody had done that. And to me, that's not something unique to me.

[00:28:47]That's how we Armenians are raised. Our parents teach us when you make a keep your word, show up, don't be lazy. It's like it just me being able to show what the Armenian culture is to others. And I think if everybody does that, I mean, you've seen it. You've interacted with a lot of highle people. Everybody always has great experience with Armenians. Why can't we do more?

[00:29:07]>> It's true. It's so true. And I've actually talked to some of my Armenian guests about that. Um, that how does that sometimes set you apart being Armenian? Because culturally, there are so many things that come with being Armenian that even in the business space, it really helps us to move forward. And some of it is the fact that we do things without expecting something in return. That is just a part of our culture and it actually stands out to people in business because they don't experience it very often.

[00:29:43]>> Like to your I agree 100% to your point.

[00:29:46]When I first got into sales, they're teaching me building rapport. I'm like what? What? Like there's a process for asking people how you're doing. That should be like natural. Like for me it was so foreign. And to see how some of the sales people will go and immediately go for the pitch. It's like no, grab like a box of chocolates from the store or grab a cup of coffee to them, ask how they're doing. It's just like how we are culturally brought up. But here in the United States, it's not so common. So, we already have an advantage. Our biggest thing is our fear of failure.

[00:30:15]Immigrants, it's the fear that, hey, I don't speak English well enough. And it's all these fears and cognitive biases that are holding us back.

[00:30:22]>> What stage are you at with a wine right now? We're in our growth phase. Praise be to God. We're in about 13 states right now. We were the first Armenian wine brand to enter Walmart, to enter Albertson, Safeway on a national scale.

[00:30:36]We're in five states with them. We're in Costco, Total Wine, Kroger, uh, SaveMart, a lot of the regional chains and national chains, and we're growing with all of them. So, the brand is growing. Neielson just did a release, and we were ranked number 10 in the country in the grocery stores.

[00:30:52]>> Oh, wow.

[00:30:52]>> Yeah, it's on the Neielson data. I can send it to you if you want to put up the screenshot. But >> awesome.

[00:30:57]>> So, and when that happens, Sona, now the chains are starting to reach out to us.

[00:31:01]Stores are starting to reach out to us and like, "Hey, you guys, what are you doing?" And we have a little bit of a method to the madness of our marketing that makes it different and how we use Mr. Michael's big following base. And if Mr. Michael was not engaged, forget about this brand working. In every video, he's drinking the wine. In every video, he's talking about it and everything. We're running content. We're filming like I was with Gary Vaynerchuk two days ago in New York and he gave us the advice of really branding Mr. Michael on Tik Tok. So I'm like Mr. Michael now we got to make you into Uncle Mike on Tik Tok. He's like Sam this hole just keeps getting deeper and deeper but let's do it. Meaning like there now there's more content that we got to film. There's a re but he's he's been great. He's done all of it.

[00:31:44]>> Uh so the brand is in growth >> stage. What was the meeting with Gary about cuz he's known as like a marketing genius. He's actually also a wine genius.

[00:31:53]>> What?

[00:31:54]>> So he built and he sold Empathy Wines for $100 million in three years.

[00:31:59]>> Whoa.

[00:31:59]>> To Constellation.

[00:32:01]>> And before that, Gary Vee got his start uh running his dad's liquor store and he grew it from 3 million to 60 million in sales in 10 years.

[00:32:09]>> Crazy.

[00:32:10]>> And he was the first one with wine library.com to sell wine online and make content about wine online.

[00:32:17]>> Oh, so is that why you were meeting with him? Was it a consultation?

[00:32:20]>> Not a consultation. Uh I I became close with one of his friends and then I asked him for a favor to make the introduction. He did. Gary was kind enough to take me in.

[00:32:30]>> See, there you go. Being proactive again.

[00:32:32]>> Yeah. Yeah. That's been that's been the whole story.

[00:32:34]>> Tell me more about that meeting. How did that go?

[00:32:37]>> It was it was really good. Gary's he's very much like you. Like right now, the way that you're very empathetic, you're very attentive. The way that you're listening the questions you're asking, he was very much like that. He's not the Gary Vee you see screaming on the stage. He was very he asked really good questions. He was very attentive.

[00:32:54]He gave really really good advice. Uh some things that we actually started implementing on right after that meeting. And he said he said Armenia's wine making is very underrated and you guys have all the makings to become a billion dollar brand in the next three years. Wow. He's bringing the wines into his stores. So that was pretty cool. Uh we got an account that was not I'm like Gary I'm not here to do a sales pitch.

[00:33:16]He's like, "No, I love what you guys have on bringing this in, and I want to see how he does, and potentially maybe in the future he could uh be one of our partners." We'll see.

[00:33:24]>> That would be amazing. Was there any kind of criticism that he had that stands out?

[00:33:30]>> You know, he just like he said, "The wine industry is so behind, and if you guys could win the culture war, become part of culture, you have all the makings of a billion-dollar brand. the story you guys have, the uniqueness of the product, the packaging, the distribution, the online presence. It's just a matter of time and execution. And right now, that's our problem is getting enough product.

[00:33:52]>> Getting enough product. Why is that a problem?

[00:33:54]>> Uh, it's more from a business perspective, like in the wine business where you have capital tied up, meaning you buy the product, it gets here, and then you sell it to the stores and then you got to wait 30, 60, 90 days to get paid because that's how the chains work. So right now for us it's like we've grown so much where our problem right now is getting product in and keeping it on the shelves >> because you have to obviously have that money to put back into bringing the one >> and we've just constantly reinvested everything like every time the money's double it's been all right back into the business to growth.

[00:34:28]>> So tell me about the biggest obstacles in this business.

[00:34:31]>> The biggest obstacle is getting into the chains especially when you're starting new.

[00:34:36]>> Is it a mafia?

[00:34:38]>> You know what it really is. We haven't had any introductions. Every account we've gotten into has been through cold email or cold calling.

[00:34:46]>> Really, >> there's been no introduction, no middleman.

[00:34:50]And I hate middleman. Like it's because you're giving someone else the authority to speak on your behalf.

[00:34:57]>> That's true.

[00:34:58]>> And every time they've told us you guys can't and I'm like why? And they're like because this this is the way the industry is done. Well, that's not a good enough reason. And actually change like that. They like to see the brand supplier being proactive. They like meeting the CEO. They like meeting with Mr. Michael to see, hey, we're in. But we've gone through all the chains without any introduction. No middleman, nothing.

[00:35:18]>> So, when you're making these cold calls, especially in the beginning, not now where you're already established and you have data to show. You're making these cold calls. What are you saying? We're a new wine brand.

[00:35:29]>> So, the problem people have with sales and cold outreach, Sona, is they make it about themselves. Make it about them.

[00:35:36]What problem could you solve for them?

[00:35:38]Every ch and you have to do a lot of research. It takes me every outreach I made, it took me about 20 20 to 30 hours of work for one email to go out. But you know, the crazy thing is that's felt.

[00:35:51]When you put your soul and energy into something, it's felt on the other side.

[00:35:56]It's like Steve Jobs would walk into where they had their warehouse full of iPhones and he would look at every box and put his hand on it like and he told his employees build a product with love and passion. It's transferred and the same thing is there. So I I looked at every email that was going to go out as a product in itself a product release and they felt it. I did a lot of the research of okay what is it that's going to interest them? Mhm.

[00:36:23]>> Does this category manager right now, is it their job to get a diversity of different wines for their audience? Are they going more towards the old world old world region? Do they care about a celebrity brand? Do they need more people into their store? What problem can we solve for them? And I had to get with people that knew them. Like I would go their LinkedIn connections. I would look at salespeople that were connected like, "Hey, have you sold to Nicole before? Could we get on a Zoom call?

[00:36:48]I'll pay you 500 bucks for an hour of consulting. How does she think? what is the problem I could solve for her? And then it was >> who who are you paying to talk to whom?

[00:36:56]>> Sales reps from other companies that sell to that buyer.

[00:36:59]>> Oh, that's an interesting st. Did you come up with that on your own?

[00:37:03]>> Smart.

[00:37:04]>> Yeah. So, >> I mean, how did you is this stuff that you just learned over the years? Did you go to school for this? Does your brain just work in a different kind of way?

[00:37:16]You know, I like I really really mean this and I don't say it to be cliche.

[00:37:21]It's like everything has had its own miracle and it's all praise to God for it. I've just learned and I hate giving advice because everything is circumstantial.

[00:37:32]But one advice that I would say could stand the test of time is do a high input of work. meaning do a high activity amount of work and learn from it and get better and better and eventually you will get to the goal. But you have to put in the work and you have to hear the feedback like a feedback loop. Okay, did they open the email? Did they nod? What can I do? And if you're constantly getting better, you're going to discover all these things. Yeah, my mind is still stuck on the fact that you could track all of that stuff that so now if you send me an email, you can actually track whether or not I opened it, >> how many times you've opened it, what time you've opened it, how many times you've clicked on it. I could look at all of that and based on that behavior.

[00:38:14]And so when when you make and this is probably a tr it's like a secret I'll share with your audience is when you're sending email and you want to get someone's attention, don't expect to get a meeting out of their first email.

[00:38:26]expect to get a open or a reply. If you get an open and you make that your entire goal, now you're in their inbox.

[00:38:33]You're no longer in the spam folder. If you're asking for a meeting, like who are you to get a meeting with someone from a cold outreach?

[00:38:41]>> Mhm.

[00:38:41]>> Show them that you mean something. Like for instance, something like hey, like I'll bring up uh let me bring up Katie.

[00:38:49]Let's say Katie who's in Ohio is in charge of Albertson's, right? If I say, "Hey, Katie, can I get a meeting with you?" Who am I to get a meeting? It's like spam folder trash. Hey Katie, I know you're in Ohio. I was in your Albertson stores in Southern California, and I love the set that you guys have, and I actually took some photos for you.

[00:39:08]Would you want me to share them with you?

[00:39:09]>> Mhm.

[00:39:11]>> Sure. There you go. Now you have a micro conversion.

[00:39:15]>> Okay. So is a big part of it that you also want to like you want to get a response but make sure that you're not wasting their time.

[00:39:26]>> Yeah. And again you have to put in the work and you have to learn and you have to build the intuition for it. Like it's just a lot of repetition.

[00:39:35]>> What do you think is the biggest kind of thing that you learned from whether it was a mistake or an accomplishment?

[00:39:42]What was the biggest lesson for you >> in from the outreaching from sales or >> from a business perspective just strategy?

[00:39:52]>> So business is more art than it is business. And every time you try to make it like business, you're putting limits and constraints. You're starting to operate within constraints. You need to think of it, it's like the professor might say something, but again, it's all circumstantial.

[00:40:10]If I go out and I give an advice of don't give up and somebody's working on the wrong thing, >> give up.

[00:40:16]>> That person should give up. But that advice is the wrong advice to them. It's all circumstantial, right?

[00:40:21]>> So, just understand that. Set a goal and go after it and learn along the way.

[00:40:27]That's just been the just been the motto of constantly improving. And I had a great mentor who was actually colonel at Andrews Air Force. Every time Barack Obama landed, he walked him to his office. And he taught me a lot of the way military thought and the training there of constant process of improvement like constantly improving your process and tracking everything.

[00:40:47]>> What did you study in school?

[00:40:50]>> I went to college for a year.

[00:40:52]>> Mhm.

[00:40:52]>> But I would say starting at Papa John's at 14 and being a manager at a young age and I was I learned a lot from my dad like he's been my number one inspiration, mentor, all of the above.

[00:41:02]>> Learning from his hard work ethic, customer service, treating people right.

[00:41:05]It's all about human psychology. At the end of the day, it's all humans dealing with humans and you have to learn it.

[00:41:11]So, being able to work at a young age and learning from my dad and seeing his work ethic and our family going through that really difficult time where we're on the verge of bankruptcy >> really tightened us up and I got a chance to see how much sacrifice my dad was taking for the family and uh that really pushed me. And then seeing my mom working as a cashier at Walmart and like somebody I'll never forget I was 9 years old when I started punching the red box like somebody yelling at her for like not moving the cat food the right way.

[00:41:40]It's like so all of these things just create this desire >> the drive >> and drive. It's like no like they came to America so I don't go and fight and die on the battlefield.

[00:41:49]>> I got to make sure it was worth it for them.

[00:41:50]>> Do you have siblings?

[00:41:51]>> Yeah, two sisters.

[00:41:52]>> Two sisters. What kind of field are they in? So my middle sister uh is in psychology and the younger one, she's graduating high school, wants to be a lawyer.

[00:42:02]>> Nice. Now, in terms of starting a brand and starting a new business, how are you deciding the price point for the wine?

[00:42:14]>> You know, if you get into a lot of research in the beginning, you're gonna you'll fall into analysis paralysis.

[00:42:23]For us it was just test like sell it to the store at this price >> and tell them to sell it at this price sell to the other one. So for us it was just testing a lot and seeing what people actually purchased at what price point >> and how long do you test that out until you come to a conclusion?

[00:42:43]>> Uh for us it was testing about 3 months.

[00:42:46]And realistically I like to look at tests in 100 like it's the rule of 100.

[00:42:51]Like if you make 10 Instagram DMs and you don't get a response back, you don't have a big enough pool to draw a conclusion from. Do 100 DMs and then see what the response back is. Get into 100 stores. Wait a 100 days. So it's just like this rule of 100.

[00:43:07]>> Isn't it hard when it comes to branding to decide on a price just based on the fact that on one hand you want to be able to sell a lot. So volume is probably one goal, right? But then do you want to be a luxury wine? Do you want to be an everyday wine? Do you have different tiers? How exactly do you decide those things?

[00:43:29]>> That's a great question. So you have to look at the total addressable market, the TAM of like what's the growth in which sectors? So is there growth and decline? The time we started the wine industry has been falling down.

[00:43:44]>> But we saw that the sector there was growth in was between 1499 to 1999.

[00:43:50]So that's where we positioned ourselves to be in that price range. But we also tested at higher prices in other stores >> until we came down to, hey, at $19.99 in store were great. Online at $29.99 because the shipping fees are really high. Online, too, on Venos Shipper, which is the platform we use to do our online sales. We're number one out of 7,000 wine brands, and we're the only Armenian wine brand in their network.

[00:44:15]>> What do you feel has set you apart?

[00:44:17]because you're not competing with a small market. You are right now on a national scale. Are you selling worldwide?

[00:44:26]>> Not yet. We're just in the United States getting into Thailand, uh possibly India, United Kingdom, Australia. So, we're working on all of this. Uh currently, >> so again, cold calls. What exactly are you doing? Uh yeah, now we're getting reached out to because they're seeing the success in the United States market and the chains that we're in and that Mr. Michael's following is like helping with that. People are literally going to the stores and asking for Francy's wine.

[00:44:55]>> Did you have any reservations before partnering with him? Did you have any fears of disappointment?

[00:45:01]>> No, just said go for it and see what happens.

[00:45:06]>> Now, I'm sure you've met a lot of people in the industry. Gary's one of them. Um, have you met Patrick Bet David yet?

[00:45:12]>> Many times. I was actually coolest thing. I'll send a photo of it. I was in his house having lunch with Patrick Bed David, Chaz Palmentary, Mike Tyson, and Michael Frances. And that was like one of the coolest moments.

[00:45:26]>> What What was being talked about at the dinner table? What are you guys chatting about?

[00:45:31]>> Well, Patrick was getting to talking and connecting everybody. But one of the things I want to share with young entrepreneurs and especially young Armenians, I was waiting in the room.

[00:45:42]Mike Tyson showed up really late and I was in the backstage while Mr. Michael was on. This was them promoting the wine. This was when we first launched and Mike Tyson comes in and he looks at he just looks at him like, "Hey, how old are you?" At the time I was 23. I'm like 23 years old. Well, Alexander the Gray was conquering the whole world at your age on foot with no cars, nothing.

[00:46:06]There's no goal that if you set a 10-year vision to, you won't be able to achieve. If one man could conquer the whole known world in 10 years, then you can achieve whatever goal you want. And I was like, dang. And that's like that's been one of those things that I wrote on my wall and it's something I always look at. If one man was able to conquer the world in 10 years, you could achieve anything you set your mind to in 10 years.

[00:46:29]>> What is on your bucket list now? What do you want to achieve?

[00:46:34]>> Well, we want to take Francy's wine and we want to have a successful exit or a successful partnership. I actually I had a great meeting yesterday and like now we know exactly where we need to be to get to our goal. And after that, I want to open up an Armenian wine federation and get all the Armenian wine going to start working with each other first to start having the big PR effect. I want to become a bridge where I could go and bring wine brand, not just wine, but any other brand from Armenia to the United States, leverage the relationships with the national chains to really help stimulate our economy and really make Armenian made products cool, like make Armenian made products great in America.

[00:47:16]And then after that there's a another really big vision that we have that as that's more dealing with scientists.

[00:47:22]We've already started it's more in the biodegradable plastic. Uh I have a theory that the countries that control oil are not going to do a lot of good in the world. And if you look at it, people don't want to live in those countries.

[00:47:34]They're fleeing. And so biodegradable plastic has a big future. And we want to be front runners in that after the wine business.

[00:47:42]>> What made you come to that?

[00:47:44]There was a billionaire 92-year-old man who was a client of mine in the marketing business and before he passed away, he he shared some stuff and he told me, "Sam, you have 10 years to really get yourself in a place financially to take advantage of what's coming." And so, yeah.

[00:48:03]>> So, you're on that path.

[00:48:04]>> I'm on that path.

[00:48:05]>> How old are you now?

[00:48:06]>> Uh, I just turned 27.

[00:48:07]>> And you're doing all of these great things. That's amazing. Well, and then Yeah. Well, you'll have to come to our winery in Armenia, too.

[00:48:14]>> I would love to. You guys have I actually applaud >> uh after my team shared with me about uh that I was going to come on, I looked into it. I'm like, "Wow, you guys are actually like building the Napa Valley style experience in Armenia." So, congratulations and thank you to you and your family for doing that.

[00:48:30]>> Thank you. Oh, when is the last time you were in Armenia?

[00:48:34]>> You know, I don't I don't think I've 2012.

[00:48:38]>> Oh, so it's been a long time. It's changed. so much since then. Armenia just changes every year exponentially.

[00:48:46]So, um it'll be interesting to go back and then when you come, you'll have to come to the winery. It's so beautiful.

[00:48:52]>> I would love to. It would be an honor.

[00:48:58]In terms of distribution in the beginning when you are getting distribution for your wine are there um like there are just so many things that you have to meet as far as criteria goes of like you know how many do you bring in? If there's demand do you can you like demand and supply are you able to actually deliver? Are you getting the numbers and everything right in the beginning?

[00:49:25]>> No. In the beginning, it's a lot of like when we first got the deal with Costco, they wanted a product that we didn't even have in stock. And in that meeting, my I I I hired a sales guy for a time and then I let him go. Uh if you want to like the highlevel stuff, you as the owner operator need to be involved in it. You can't delegate it.

[00:49:43]>> Why?

[00:49:44]>> Uh because they're not going to care as much as you and you're going to feel that it's being taken care of when it's not and you're gonna have this false sense of reality >> that's really gonna dream bring you down. So if they're like the as the CEO or as the owner, you have to work on the most important thing of the company. You have to you can't delegate that.

[00:50:01]>> Uh so anyways, we're sitting down in that meeting and the buyer goes like yeah I want to have you know I want to bring in a thousand cases of this and thousand cases of that. And then he's about to say we don't have thousand cases of them. And I stomp on his foot. I'm like yes sir when do you need it? And then we leave. He's like and I pull out my phone. He's like Sam but we don't have that wine. I'm like, I know we're about to fly to the United States. And I did not even know you could fly wine in from Armenia to here. And so we ended up losing a lot of money on that deal, but we didn't say no to the customer. And it's been a great uh it's been a great partnership for us.

[00:50:34]>> Wait, why did you lose a lot of money?

[00:50:36]Because of how it was.

[00:50:39]Yes.

[00:50:39]>> So, it actually was worth doing that just for the relationship itself.

[00:50:45]>> 100%.

[00:50:46]>> And that's an ongoing relationship?

[00:50:48]>> Yes, we're still there and we're growing.

[00:50:50]>> Amazing. We're in actually eight stores in Southern California, I think.

[00:50:53]Burbank, Glendel, Irvine. We're in other states with them, too.

[00:50:57]>> Was it difficult initially to get into the chains just because they don't carry Armenian wine, so they don't have um experience with whether or not it's going to sell.

[00:51:09]>> I'm going to share this uh because and I think if other brands do it, I want them to do it. I've never positioned this as Armenian wine to the chains. It's always been wine from the world's first vineyards.

[00:51:23]>> Mhm. Okay.

[00:51:25]>> So, taste the world's first wine. And so, and then having Mr. Michael on board with it, it's like the story of transformation. They don't even look at that.

[00:51:33]>> If I went trying to sell Armenian wine, we would not win because there's no category for it. Like literally, when we were applying at uh uh Walmart, there was where it says where's the origin of product? Armenia was not on the list. They had to add it for us.

[00:51:50]It's Walmart came up a few times in this conversation and it's interesting because I had the CEO of a footwear line that was here and he was talking about the struggles of getting into Walmart.

[00:52:03]So that's a big deal for a business.

[00:52:05]Yeah. To get into why is it a big deal?

[00:52:08]>> There are very very large retailers.

[00:52:10]They're the largest retailer in the country and they have very strict policies of who they can work with. Like you have to have somebody that's living in Arkansas before you can even have a meeting. Like one of your reps needs to be out of Arkansas.

[00:52:22]>> So you have a rep out of Arkansas?

[00:52:24]>> At the time we did.

[00:52:25]>> Yeah. And did you strategically have one?

[00:52:28]>> Yeah.

[00:52:29]>> So you actually have to put that in place just to even get in the game.

[00:52:33]>> And Sam Walton actually made that part of Walmart's policy and that's why Arkansas's grown the way it has.

[00:52:38]>> That's so cool. Okay. But also the way that you positioned Armenia, like your wines, not just as Armenian wines or not even mentioning it in these pitches. The fact that you're just saying from the original vineyards, that's so smart because now, come to think of it, when I first saw Michael Frances talking about Armenian wines, I actually had no idea there was any affiliation with Armenia at all. I just knew his wine brand and then I thought, "Oh, that's so cool. How how did he end up talking about Armenian wines and then come to find out their CEO is Armenian? That was a nice surprise.

[00:53:16]>> Yeah.

[00:53:17]>> So, you don't really put yourself out there so much. Why?

[00:53:22]>> Because I will lose focus. I'm very obsessed when it comes to progress.

[00:53:27]>> And actually, my team manages Mr. Michael's YouTube channel. We have a company called Backbone Media Group where we work with other influencers and growing them and getting them, you know, millions of views and followers and I don't get involved in it because I will lose focus. Like this for me was important because I love what you're doing. I support it 100%. Uh but I don't want to put myself out there that much because I'll lose focus of the important things.

[00:53:52]>> What is the important thing for you?

[00:53:54]Like for instance, like when you're getting uh driving revenue, making sure the customers are being taken care of, like those are the KPIs I want to get obsessed over, not how many views did this video get and then why can't I get there or why can't I get this guest? So for me it's like eventually I'll probably get into that world too, but right now I'm at the stage where I got to be really focused on growth.

[00:54:16]>> So what other businesses are you interested in outside of wine? What do you think is going to be your next thing or are you just laser focused right now?

[00:54:26]>> I'm laser focused right now. I do see big opport like we're doing a lot of cool stuff with AI in our business right now that another wine brand is doing. Uh >> is it something you can talk about what you're doing?

[00:54:37]>> We're looking at using AI to really be profitable, reduce headcount like things that people would be doing. We have AI taking taking over it. I don't have the sales outreach. I don't have the emails being crafted by AI because people feel it. A lot of actually >> these chain buyers, I'll I'll share this little secret in their Microsoft account, they have an AI reader that lets them know if this emails came from AI or not.

[00:55:00]>> Oh no.

[00:55:01]>> So if you're using AI to make outreaches, you're not going to gain the respect.

[00:55:05]>> So even if you personalize it, but you use chat GPT to kind of polish your email, they can detect that.

[00:55:12]>> They detect it.

[00:55:13]>> How?

[00:55:14]>> That's the I mean, yeah, there's software for that.

[00:55:17]>> Wow. There's just software for everything.

[00:55:20]>> There is. And yeah, we're headed towards an interesting place as a society with AI, but I do I do see biodegradable plastic being a really big thing.

[00:55:29]>> Mhm.

[00:55:29]>> Uh that'll be the next one, but right now the full focus is on wine.

[00:55:33]>> On wine. Awesome. Shall we show some of the wines that you brought on?

[00:55:38]>> That would be awesome.

[00:55:44]This one's actually special for for you.

[00:55:47]Uh, this is a collectible 50 years of being remade from Michael Frances.

[00:55:52]This one at times we we will sell it online, but it always sells out and it's like it's the most expensive product on our list. But this one right here is for you. It's got it's actually drawn the 50 years celebrating of being remade.

[00:56:04]>> Oh, wow. The packaging is so nice.

[00:56:07]>> Thank you. And then actually we have a QR code on the bottom of the cap which is 50 years of 50 lessons. And so he's sharing 50 lessons that comes with every bottle.

[00:56:18]>> Oh, so when you scan the QR code, you can read the lessons. That is so creative.

[00:56:22]>> And it's actually YouTube videos that only people with this bottle have access to.

[00:56:26]>> Who came up with that idea?

[00:56:28]>> I don't know. So that's yours. And then this is our Malbeck, which is available at a lot of the retailers. The flagship that's been our number one product has been the Arni.

[00:56:38]>> Mhm.

[00:56:39]>> This is the one that's been really Kroger brought it in. Albertson, Safeway, Costco, a lot of the chains.

[00:56:45]And as you know, the Arni is the first wine genetic parent of Pino Noir. And then we also have our uh white blend, which we call Salvin Blanc because it's got a very Sony Blanc profile, >> but it's actually a blend of Voskehat and Kangun.

[00:57:01]>> So, let's talk about Voskehat and in general, the grape varieties from Armenia. A lot of people don't know that these are unique to the region. So maybe you want to elaborate on that.

[00:57:13]>> I think I have more to learn on that end from your end. You're you're the wine expert.

[00:57:17]>> Well, technically because of that, I mean, no other country can reproduce these wines. I have had these and they're delicious. I really enjoyed them a lot and I really love the way that you guys are marketing and the packaging is amazing.

[00:57:32]>> Thank you.

[00:57:32]>> Your circumstances don't define you, your decisions do. And I I just really love in general and actually Patrick but David and I talked about this when I interviewed him too. I really do believe that when you take on the victim mentality, it's like you lose twice.

[00:57:50]>> Yes. So Mr. Michael taught me this. He said uh having a vict victim mindset is giving over your authority.

[00:58:02]It's giving away your freedom.

[00:58:04]like he's he's he's an incredible man who's got who has an incredible past.

[00:58:09]Like he was three years in solitary confinement. He became the first member to walk away from the mob without being killed or entering witness protection program. And it's like you just paid the price for your decisions. That's it.

[00:58:24]>> What do you think is like the biggest philosophy lesson that you've taken from him?

[00:58:29]>> You know, it's crazy. people just love him and he knows how to do it. Like there's very little things and his number one skill is he's a very good people person and he's able to win people over. I mean I can't share I'll probably separate another time. I'll share with you and your husband the story how he actually got out of the mob which is insane. Uh not publicly but it it came down to like him just being really good with people and I've learned that from him. He's very attentive to every word. He's very measured. He thinks multiple times before speaking.

[00:59:06]And he's got a really good memory. So, it's a combination of all of those things. And he always says, he's like, "Look, I was never a business person. I just knew how to deal with people, right?" And he made 8 to 10 million a week at like age 30. Second biggest money maker in mob history after Al Capone.

[00:59:24]>> Wow.

[00:59:24]>> Yeah. We've talked about your strengths, um, your determination, your passion, your work ethic. What did you consider to be one of your weaknesses that you worked on and you overcame?

[00:59:38]>> You know, I've had a lot of weak weaknesses. Focus was a big one for me and I've paid the price of that, like being scattered and trying to do too many different things at once, >> which is also just creative people are like that.

[00:59:51]>> Yes. Yes. But I think uh that's very distracting especially in today's world like I'm not on social media nowhere because it was affecting my focus and I had to work on that. I had to work on becoming organized. I had my stuff all over the place. I had to focus on discipline. Uh so there's there's definitely been a lot of things that I've struggled with that I've had to overcome because and here's the beautiful thing. Change doesn't happen until the pain of the existing circumstances surpasses the pain of change.

[01:00:26]That's when change happens. It's like for instance actually no not that but yeah. So until until your existing circumstances become so painful because change is very painful and that's the formula and you have to be able to recognize it. Like for me it became like hey we're not growing the way we can.

[01:00:44]Why? Because I'm not focused and that pain really hurt. So it became more than the pain of focus and change. So >> what's your daily life like? You wake up, do you drink coffee?

[01:00:56]>> You know, I have I have a I've practiced on a little bit of a routine of waking up between 6:00 to 6:30. Oh, the biggest thing and my friend Hudson shared this with me. He's the founder of Comfort Comfort Hoodies. He scaled in three years from like zero to a billion dollars with $50,000. And he just sold a portion of his company for a big amount.

[01:01:18]But he taught me the biggest productivity lesson. I'm like, "Hudson, how do you do it?" He's like, "Every night before you go to bed, write down the things you're going to work on.

[01:01:25]That's it. You don't need the software.

[01:01:27]You don't need this crazy life hack. You don't need all of this crazy stuff.

[01:01:30]Write it down. Wake up, review it, have your cup of coffee, and get to work."

[01:01:35]And that's just mostly what it is.

[01:01:38]and your dayto-day. So you wake up and how does your day start?

[01:01:44]>> So I would I would plan the night before uh the night before I would plan it and then when I wake up I would look at it, review it >> and sometimes I get a workout in. Oh, I'll share this every Monday. It's my prime Monday. Meaning I'll do a cold plunge. I'll do a nice workout. Mentally it gets me ready to now the war started.

[01:02:05]like I'm in war mode and I've trained myself with like whenever I do this I'm in war mode and a lot of times I travel a lot so it could have negative impact when you get back you're jetlagged so I have to focus on the next day having my Monday routine where it's warm war time >> and every other day just get up and get to work get to the office >> being around so many high achievers what has been your observation what do you feel like is a common denominator between all of them that you admire higher.

[01:02:36]>> They're they have a crystal clear vision of where they want to go. So having a vision is a big thing. Those without vision, no if you don't know where you're going, people aren't going to follow you. So they have vision, they have discipline, and you could feel the discipline off of them, right? They have discipline, they have vision, and they read a lot.

[01:02:59]>> What do you read?

[01:03:00]>> I read a lot of books.

[01:03:03]uh like business books and I oh I'm a big fan of biographies like reading about Napoleon, Alexander the Great, Winston Churchill, Abraham Lincoln, George Washington, >> Elon Musk, Steve Jobs. I've read a lot of their biographies.

[01:03:16]>> What do you feel like you take away from it besides the obvious lessons? Is it more about the actual moves or is it about character?

[01:03:28]>> That's a great question, Sona. And what comes to what comes to mind is when you read about them, you get to see their journey and you see that what you're going through isn't something far from what they went through.

[01:03:41]>> And then when you read and you learn how they persevered, you get this sense of, hey, I just have to make it. I just have to persevere and get past it.

[01:03:50]>> And so like Elon Musk, most people don't know this. Tesla came down to such a low point where employees started pulling mortgages on their houses to give him the money so he could have cash for three more days to survive.

[01:04:05]>> He Elon Musk sold the company. He had $180 million and he ended up having to borrow money from his neighbor to pay rent so he doesn't get evicted. But look at where he is today. So whatever struggle you're going through, these people have also gone through. Abraham Lincoln failed five times to or seven times to become a senator and then he became president. Winston Churchill, he was mocked at. He was laughed at. Nobody thought he would amount to anything. He was a drunkard. He wasn't dead. He never succeeded in business. He became the man to defeat Hitler and become the hero of World War II. When you read these stories, you see that the path I'm going through, the difficulties, the obstacles, these aren't just for me.

[01:04:43]This is just the path to wherever I want to get to. And the path determines who deserves to get there. And this is just a journey.

[01:04:52]>> That's one of the things that I really liked about you, that you have this determination that's not rooted in arrogance. You just really have this mature understanding that there can be obstacles, there can be difficulties, but as long as you work toward your goals, it's achievable. It's doable. And you've achieved so much at such a young age. just based on that. So, >> congratulations. I think you should be so proud of everything you've accomplished and I see that you're going to be so much more successful um going forward. So, >> thank you. I appreciate that and the same for you and what you're doing, too.

[01:05:31]So, thank you.

[01:05:33]>> Thank you. Thanks for being here. I'm sure we'll do this again sometime.

[01:05:36]>> Yes. Thank you. We look forward to it.

[01:05:38]And then hopefully I'm going to see if we could also, if you're interested to see if we could get Mr. Michael in here, too. I think you guys would have a great conversation.

[01:05:44]>> Love that. Of course. Yeah, >> I think it would be awesome. Thank you so much for being here.

[01:05:48]>> Thank you for having me.

[01:05:56]>> If you enjoyed this episode and you want to help us grow, all you need to do is subscribe to our channel and drop a comment.