CLARITY Act, Collectibles Season, xStocks on Jupiter | Jupiter Planetary Call

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[00:00:03][music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] >> Okay, planetary calls, some ground rules. I know the rules. You don't. You never know the rules. Neither does Italo, YK. Honestly, half of this company, which is why we're doing this.

[00:03:01]Yeah, okay. You're not wrong on that. I give you that, too. Okay, do not mention Sure.

[00:03:06]Do not mention No problem. No inshallah or amen.

[00:03:11]Why? Why not?

[00:03:13]They're not fun. They are extremely fun to say, actually. I'm going to have to beg to differ with you on that one.

[00:03:18]Also, somehow we have an AI video of half-naked male walking the ramp. Who signed off on this? Really? Is it any good? Can you send me the link? That is so not the point. I agree to disagree, once again.

[00:03:32]I'm going live now. No, but we're not done talking about the Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the planetary call.

[00:03:40]>> [music] >> Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the planetary call. Once again, it is me, Cash down to the cat herder wearing a very similar shirt. I realize I only have one style of shirt that I actually wear.

[00:03:59]And I am so goddamn excited to be back with everybody over here. What's going on DJ Sims, my guy Venge, AG the big homie. Adam, we are almost certainly going to get some spice. Inshallah, we have a nice little bit of spice. RJ, Big Michael, all the homies are here. God, I missed everybody. Thank you very much, Sydney. It is a bit of a fresh cut. Some would argue not a very good one. I am not one of those people. I think it's a great one. But, we're not here to talk about my hairstyles as much as I would prefer to. Uh we are here to talk about the Jupiter planetary call. Uh and I have some exciting news. If I could figure out how to do this.

[00:04:35]There we go. Uh you would think I would know. We are switching it up for for the first time in a long time. Feels good to see your name. Uh Dinian, I apologize for mispronouncing that, but I'm somewhat dyslexic. Anyway, we're here on an all new kind of planetary call structure and format, which I am very excited about. I have done what feels like a trillion of these calls in the past. Basically, for a little while, we're doing these every week, if you can believe it.

[00:05:03]We did like 60 or 70 of them, and they were really uh thank you, Leo.

[00:05:07]Appreciate that. We are They were usually really focused on the Jupiter community itself, which is great. I love the Jupiter community. I'm very biased about this. I work at Jupiter. But, as we look to kind of grow Jupiter and grow on-chain finances as a whole, we realized we needed to kind of change up the format a little bit. Make it a little bit more around news you could use. Broaden the kind of TAM of who would be interested in watching this.

[00:05:30]And turn this into something, you know, a little bit more welcome for everyone.

[00:05:33]DJ Sims said, "When a POAP?" Shrijani, if you're listening, if you want a POAP for this call, please please say when POAP in the chat. That way Shrijani will be forced to do it. If you If maybe 50 people do it, then I think she'll she'll be forced to do it legally.

[00:05:48]Anyway, [laughter] every 2 weeks what we're going to do now is we're going to come with this new structure. We're going to cover the biggest news that we can find. We're going to host guests who are pushing crypto forward. We got a killer one today actually. I'm really excited about it. And of course talk about Jupiter, but the Jupiter section we're going to condense a little bit and the rest of the on-chain section we're going to increase a little bit. Yes, yes the POAP lovers. Yes, yes. This is all going according to plan. Shujini is going to hate this which is great for me.

[00:06:14]>> [laughter] >> All right, so if it is your first time around here, you've picked a great one to come back to. I know a few people have been this in a little while.

[00:06:21]Are here as well. So please sit back, enjoy the show, drop a little W from here or there. Bully Shujini in the chat. That's always a good time. I can promise you.

[00:06:31]Can we change the number of days and weeks? Seven is too long. Four is even longer.

[00:06:35]Yes, we are going to get into it right now. So here's what we're going to cover today. We're going to start off by talking about the state of the markets broadly. Again, just like very very broad.

[00:06:44]And uh >> [laughter] >> Can't told you.

[00:06:46]My guy. So Jupiter being condensed no way at least 6 hours call please. We are going to try the the mandate set to the team is at under 60 minutes or your money back.

[00:06:57]We'll see if we're able to get there or not. I don't know. But we very much need feedback on this new structure. So please do let us know feedback after the end of the call. State of the markets is where we're going to start. Then we're going to do a little debrief on the Clarity Act. It's one of the most important stories in all of crypto and I think it's important for all of us to be on the same page about what it means and why it is important. Then we're going to do a little section called good tweets where we look at some tweets that were good.

[00:07:20]And then I'm very excited to say we have Sam Schubert here from Blockworks research analyst over there who's going to talk about some kind of larger thoughts on DeFi as well on Jupiter specifically. And then we're going to end with some Jupiter product alpha.

[00:07:33]That is the idea. Prediction market on cash running over time. Hopefully soon.

[00:07:37]I very much hope so.

[00:07:39]But I don't know. At least finish before my flight in the next 2 hours.

[00:07:43]Bet DJ Sims. That's a that is a deal.

[00:07:46]Pope Francis lot of maybe is a game changer. It's going on six. Good to have you here. So, >> [laughter] >> we're going to see how this goes.

[00:07:54]Experimental new format. Wish us luck.

[00:07:57]Who knows? One I was so much out of the prediction markets. 65 minutes run time Bork.

[00:08:03]Prepare to lose your money. It's going to be a little bit less than that. All right. Let's start off with some state of the markets talk in case you haven't seen these.

[00:08:09]The markets are looking good right now.

[00:08:12]Inshallah. I don't want to jinx it right now. Bitcoin up near $82,000.

[00:08:16]ETH at 2.4. And Solana doing a little bit of damage here at 88.9 right now.

[00:08:22]Interesting to see gold up to 4.7 as well. Gold has been crushing for a long while. Crude oil has had a hell of a day. Kind of back up, back down. There's something related to the next thing that we're going to talk about, but broadly international developments are playing, you know, kind of whipsaw in the oil markets. And then copper as well.

[00:08:39]Shoutout to to the copper folks. $6.2 over on that side.

[00:08:44]I think all of these things you can buy on chain at this point as well for the record.

[00:08:47]Some things that are going on in the markets you should probably be aware of.

[00:08:50]First, President Trump pauses Project Freedom. Freedom has been paused.

[00:08:54]Basically the operation in the Strait of Hormuz is kind of being paused hoping towards to get closer towards a deal with Iran.

[00:09:02]This is very good news I will say as someone who lives in Dubai and whose family is, you know, not psyched about the war.

[00:09:10]Over here not going to do a Trump impression. I tried. I thought about it. I practiced one. It was very bad. I'm not going to do one here. But Trump basically saying if they if possible, we're going to try to end the or try to open the Strait of Hormuz to all and get some regulation going back into the markets here. It's very bullish. Interestingly, there's also been a [ __ ] ton of insider trading or what appears to be insider trading allegedly on these markets right before the announcement. Something like $900 million in the kind of like longs was or in shorts were opened and you know, obviously those ended up paying off before things bounced back up. It's a very, very wild time. So hopefully you're staying safe out in the markets, but if this holds, I think it's clear skies ahead for a lot of financial markets. Uh it was very bad.

[00:09:54]Yeah, I I thought about it. I thought about it. Uh all of this kind of means fresh highs for the S&P 500 on Tuesday as well, which is insane. Chipmakers continue to rally in till up 13% on the Apple deal reports. Q1 earnings are tracking 28% year-on-year growth. Very strong.

[00:10:11]Everything's green across the board.

[00:10:13]You've seen a lot of this in crypto as well. I will say. Hopefully some more of this trickles down. Crypto markets, as you probably know, are further out on the risk curve than the equity markets.

[00:10:22]Uh so typically kind of a resurgence in some equities might mean a resurgence in crypto. Not always been the case historically, but let's find out. We're going to we're going to end up seeing, but it's important to know that this happening. Uh and then one story to really keep an eye on, Apollo has crossed $1 trillion in AUM with a T. Apollo is one of the biggest, well, as I suppose now the biggest kind of name in private credit. Also, a big fan of Solana.

[00:10:44]Their Acred product has been tokenized for quite some time now, thanks to the homies over at Securitize. Uh and they became the first private credit fund to ever cross $1 trillion in AUM. Uh at the same time, there is a potential storm brewing in private credit land, where a lot of these private credit, for those who don't know, is lending to kind of private companies, right? So a software company needs a loan to go, you know, build an office or whatever it is. Uh and they can kind of be packaged up and sold off to investors via people like Apollo. Uh it's been very murky times. These are oftentimes kind of opaque in their valuations and have some exposure uh and potential some risk as well. If there's like write-downs because they're not marked to market constantly. Uh so this is very much a story to watch. I think that if there is a large problem in financial markets, it's probably going to start with private credit. Uh that's kind of been the story for a little while. Uh but seeing Apollo continue to grow is a little bit of a reassurance People are not as scared here. So, something to know as you go through all of this.

[00:11:37]So, you guys wonder if there's any interesting news about them. There is indeed my balls.

[00:11:42]That is not what I meant to say. My friend balls. There we go.

[00:11:46]>> [laughter] >> Okay, so that is the It's late over here. It's Singapore, man. It's like 11:30 and we're we're freestyle. We're seeing where this is going to go.

[00:11:55]Speaking of market news though, there's one piece of market news that matters more than basically everything else for the crypto markets in particular and it's a little thing called the Clarity Act. People should have clarity on what clarity is all about. So, you probably heard this in the news but maybe you haven't really followed it too deeply.

[00:12:11]The Clarity Act would if passed create the first ever framework for crypto market structure in America. This is a big deal. Up until now, the SEC and occasionally the CFTC, which are the two main regulatory bodies in America, have ruled by enforcement. Which is Can I swear on this production crew? I don't know if in this new version of my allowed to swear.

[00:12:32]I'm going to swear anyway. No, I cannot swear. Okay. It's been pretty [ __ ] right? So, the way that if you're a crypto company like Jupiter or anyone else, the way that you have to understand the way that you have to act is you just kind of try things and then the SEC says, "No, that's not allowed."

[00:12:46]And they only tell you after you actually try it, which is not a great way for policy to get done. This has been wide widely kind of understood for quite some time now and what the Clarity is going to provide if passed is clarity. It's right there in the name.

[00:13:01]So, if it works, the CFTC will get authority over the spot markets for commodities like Bitcoin, Ethereum, Solana, etc. And the SEC would have the oversight on token issuance and fundraising.

[00:13:11]You also get really clear definitions for other kind of players in the ecosystem. And I want to be a thousand percent clear on this. If you care about crypto, you should care about this. In the early days of crypto and it was very kind of Cypherpunk and whatever else, people said, "Ah, you know, we don't need the government. We don't want any regulation." Those people were wrong. We need regulation. You need regulation to be taken seriously by the big money that exists in traditional finance, but also as a way to help projects, as well as kind of users and consumers and investors understand what actually matters and how to do things in the right way. What's going on, Lucid? It's good to see you, buddy.

[00:13:44]So, clarity really does matter. I think regulation does really matter. It'll help clean up the space and make it more investable for people everywhere.

[00:13:51]But, there's some trouble over in Don't get me wrong, real. I enjoyed the wild west of crypto as well. The good news is you can't shut down the markets.

[00:13:59]There will always be a wild west on chain, just like the internet always has a wild west. But, you want to have some kind of regulatory framework for people to be able to act in, is my view, at least. Uh Volvo is right. Uh LFG. But, the question is, if this is all so good and everyone likes it so much, why hasn't it passed? Well, there's been one key issue that has really kept this kind of stuck in this argumentative cycle.

[00:14:20]And that is stable coin yield.

[00:14:23]Right now, under the genius act that passed earlier, you would not be able to actually give the yield for the underlying treasury bills that back stable coins back over to the user. And this has been a major problem. Banks have argued, not unreasonably I will say, that if you allow them to pay yield on stable coins, then why would I ever use a bank account? I'll just move all of my money into stable coins, and I can just earn the yield from them, and then my kind of my actual currency ends up being like a savings account as well.

[00:14:47]That can be tricky.

[00:14:49]But, the crypto industry argue that stable coin rewards are incentive based on activities. They're not interest, and a blanket ban would kill the entire model, which is also true. And so, over the last few weeks, good things have started been happening as we start to push forward in these discussions coming. On May 1st, there was a major breakthrough.

[00:15:07]Bullish bullish breakthrough.

[00:15:09]Senators Tillis and also Brooks released the compromise text. Basically, the idea in the text is that the stable coin issuers cannot pay yield directly, as if it was interest, but if it's based on trading, staking, transacting, holding, anything that's based around activity in specific ways, then you might be able to share the yield over. Uh Coinbase and Circle, and by the way, they've done great work, Coinbase and Circle, along with 100 other crypto companies have backed the compromise in order to get something done. And it matters to get something done relatively soon, let me tell you.

[00:15:39]The date you need to put on your calendar is May 21st. If the We need the Senate Banking Committee to mark up the bill before that date, otherwise they're going to break for Memorial Day recess.

[00:15:48]You know, a lot of these politicians they take nice long holidays. Uh but if that happens, then after that it'll go to the Senate floor vote, then back to the house for a revote because it differs, right? That's how the way the US government works. It goes between these two houses until they kind of have an agreed-upon text. If the bill does not clear the Senate by July, it becomes a lot harder for something like this to get passed, particularly after the midterms when the composition in Congress and the Senate is going to change a bit. So, this is the thing to be keeping an eye on. If this passes, it is great days for all of us. Uh you know, particularly for the builders in the ecosystem, I will say. Like everybody wants this kind of regulatory clarity. We might be able to get it if this works out.

[00:16:26]I'm going to just take a little screenshot of NY Souls uh message and send it over to President Trump myself.

[00:16:31]Get clarity done. We uh we do need and want clarity. That is that. Uh and what does it say by the way? If this does not If it does pass, we get legal certainty for the first time. We end this kind of "Hey, just try it out and then I'll tell you if you're right or wrong." Uh and if it doesn't, then it's going to take probably a few years before we get more clarity. It's going to be quite difficult. This is an incredibly high-stakes situation. Uh if you are in the US, consider contacting your local politicians and pushing them in the right direction here, which is to get a deal done. I would love the new planetary call. Yeah. How are people feeling about this so far? As we kind of take more of like a broad view of things. Uh Jebediah says we need Offerbook public launch today. If you need access to Offerbook and you don't have it, Jebediah, just shoot me a DM after this call. And I'll make this for anyone watching this. And I'll get you a get your wallet whitelisted. Uh it's going to go well. Even in the private beta, we have like $160,000 in TVL or something like that. I believe it's starting to starting to happen. Yes, we do love a mod. That is very much true.

[00:17:26]A mod is the greatest.

[00:17:28]Cool. Any questions or other thoughts that people want to do put it in the chat right now. We can try to respond to and see what people think. Uh Off the book is the goat. That is true.

[00:17:38]Fresh.

[00:17:39]I mean, you're not wrong.

[00:17:41]Well, actually, I feel very unfresh, to be honest.

[00:17:43]Okay, cool. [laughter] Uh so, this is the That was the market update, and this was a debrief on the Clarity Act. Hopefully, you learned a little something. You go away a little bit smarter. And hopefully, we actually get this [ __ ] thing passed.

[00:17:57]We love you, too, Six.

[00:17:59]All right. That was that. Let's talk about some good tweets.

[00:18:03]Uh this first batch of good tweets is the first time I Cat Is that Cashley Anthony asked, "What happens if my wallet is white-listed?"

[00:18:11]Then you get to play around and use off the book.

[00:18:14]That's it. And uh yes, Brunoup, I am in the Jupiter office. Look, yeah. The boys are out here grinding. Over here. See, he's not He's hearing me shout, doesn't even give a [ __ ] Let's see if he ever notices that I'm talking about him.

[00:18:25]It seems like no. He's not going to He's so locked in.

[00:18:28]So locked in. There we go.

[00:18:30]>> [laughter] >> Anyway, yes, I'm in the Jupiter offices in in Singapore.

[00:18:35]Copy-paste the code. Yeah, if you have a claw up, you can just instantly attack.

[00:18:38]That's probably not great for opsec. Um offices in Singapore.

[00:18:43]Cooking mode activated. All right. Uh so, some good tweets that we saw over the last week. Again, these are kind of like broader than just Jupiter, although obviously Jupiter's going to be involved in some of these here. Crypto card spending is up 500% in the last like year and a half, which is something that we love to see.

[00:19:01]We can see it across a bunch of these different networks. Tron still holding pretty steady, which is interesting.

[00:19:05]Solana playing a little bit of catch-up right now, but there's a little company called Jupiter that might have something to do uh to help improve these. The Jupiter global numbers, by the way, are crazy. Like the growth is so mad. Uh I will say that my guy uh Thomas Stoeckl, aka Dexter Dev, uh said that we need to slow down a little bit on the growth cuz it was scaling so fast. We had a you know, support so many support requests and so on, but uh love to see that's growing.

[00:19:30]Um crypto card spending is going to be a big deal. For anyone who has not already told their friends and family about it, you absolutely should. It is the easiest kind of gateway drug to get people on here.

[00:19:39]Uh and just for borks, we are hoping to be live in the EU in the next kind of 4 to 6 weeks. We are hoping. I can't guarantee you there's like some other players at play, but we are getting there closer and closer. As a reminder though, you can download the app. I mean, it's just the Jupiter mobile app, and you can actually refer people and start to accumulate referrals now even if your card is not yet activated. So, if you like this, then you can actually just go ahead and do that uh as well right now. Earn the referrals. That's going to set you up for that up to 10% cash back. 10% cash back in stable coins, by the way. Not some future points or anything else like that. Uh pretty massive deal.

[00:20:16]Uh Jebediah said cash bro when offerbook public launch the rain fire team says it's ready for public launch. It is getting close to ready for public launch. The tech is is very good. I think there's still some things we're fixing up on the UI UX side, uh but it's coming. Uh Lord Gramsci, UK to mobile, it's coming. Balls gold, just refer your friends right now and lock in that higher cash back. It is very much Jupiter's right around the corner in the EU. That is correct. If your card is pending or your verification was not is not being completed yet, it probably means you're in a country we don't support yet, and that's why. But it is coming along with some very very cool things. Literally everything is cheaper. It's got like the lowest fees, uh tons of cash back, and so on.

[00:20:53]Uh so yeah. Oh, and there's Jupiter app.

[00:20:55]This is a weird kind of like summoning circle on the planetary caller. If you name a product, they will show up in the chat.

[00:21:00]So, shout out to Jupiter offerbook. The good the good folks over there. Excuse me.

[00:21:05]All right. So, this is one tweet that we thought was interesting. Another one over here, tokenized RWAs have tripled in the last 15 months. Also, nuts, 257% up to almost 20 billion in Q1 over here.

[00:21:18]Treasuries obviously being the kind of lion's share of it. Treasuries have safe, durable yield. Everyone likes them. They're a great kind of safe haven asset. Uh but we're starting to see more things happening as well, like tokenized gold trading volumes going up and of course tokenized stocks popping as well at nearly $500 million in volume since then. Jube jube jube jube jube. Um Tenebrous said, "When Onri on Jupiter lend?" Probably not in the short term.

[00:21:41]Uh but it very much is something we would love to see on offer book. So, if you want to write against that, if you want to lend against Onri, that's a great place uh to do it. Uh jube token utility, please. The niche. Yeah, we got some things about that. Don't you worry.

[00:21:52]It already has utility in fairness. It takes 50% of our revenues. You need it for verifying tokens and a few other things, but there might be some more things coming on that side. Let's just wait and see.

[00:22:01]Okay.

[00:22:02]Uh so, tokenized RWAs going bigger and bigger and bigger. I will say Jupiter is going to be the home for these tokenized RWAs. They already are. We're in the X Stocks Alliance, the Ondo Alliance.

[00:22:10]We've worked very closely with Securitize as we'll talk about in a bit.

[00:22:13]Uh basically, anyone that's bringing RWAs on chain works with Jupiter in order to do so, to have that distribution for them. So, if you are bullish RWAs on chain, which you should be. These numbers tell you that the market really is. You should be very bullish on Jupiter. I think we are in prime position to benefit from this wave of RWAs that's coming.

[00:22:31]The trading side, the verification side, the lending side. We can do it all in one suite. And can I say this about Jupiter Global? Have we talked about RWAs in Jupiter Global?

[00:22:42]I wish Thomas was here so I could ask cuz I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say it.

[00:22:45]But uh all right. I will just say that yeah, we have some fun things cooking up with Jupiter Global as well around RWAs. And that's that's all I'll say before. We have I we've already said this.

[00:22:55]Jupiter on chain. I'm allowed to say what I wanted to say. Do you know what I want [laughter] to say?

[00:22:58]Anyway.

[00:22:59]Um We have no. Oh, he said no, who said yes?

[00:23:04]All right, [ __ ] it.

[00:23:05]Okay, here's another thing you should probably know about you probably seen this already, but chain stable coins are going mainstream. I am old enough to remember when stable coins were like a fun kind of side experiment and everyone thought that the tether was just criminal activity. Spoiler alert, they're not. The tether has been great and has been dominant in the stable coin space for a long time.

[00:23:23]The chain analysis now projects stable coin volume is going to hit 719 trillion by 2035. That is insane, these numbers.

[00:23:32]Uh when factoring in macro catalysts, the analysis says this figure could approach 1.5 quadrillion. These sound like made-up numbers, quite honestly. It's actually pretty pretty insane.

[00:23:43]Um obviously, Jupiter is also benefiting from this with JUP USD. I think we're getting close to $100 million of that inside of Jupiter Lend, which is pretty sick.

[00:23:51]Uh but there's been plenty of others.

[00:23:52]Western Union, SoFi, who by the way Jupiter signed an LOI with and are interested and excited to partner with, are the latest TradFi giants that are going to launch their own stable coins on Solana. The whole world is coming here.

[00:24:03]And here's a little alpha for people that is not on the slide, but you should probably know from a Jupiter perspective.

[00:24:08]At Catlin Pore, we talked about the Jupiter Lend Dex that's going to go live. This idea where individual pools within Jupiter Lend will be able to be traded through. These are particularly good at for stable coins and pegged assets. Fluid, who are partners on Jupiter Lend and just the best guys, they sometimes do more volume than Uniswap over on the EVM just because they have so many stables and so many pegged assets that are getting traded through.

[00:24:31]Well, if you say that, okay, I can have lending liquidity and trading liquidity in the same place, I get greater capital efficiency. And if you're a stable coin issuer, that's exactly what you want. I know this problem firsthand cuz we launched JUP USD. It's really hard to get the liquidity kind of built up in multiple places. And so I think Jupiter Lend in particular is going to be, you know, the home place of all stables on Solana. It's going to be where stable swaps are happening, where stable lending is happening.

[00:24:55]And you can take that to the bank.

[00:24:56]That's going to be a very exciting piece here. W's in the chat says firstborn and I don't ever argue with firstborn.

[00:25:01]Everybody knows that.

[00:25:04]Kidding aside, what the [ __ ] is a quadrillion? And he's right.

[00:25:07]Okay, here's another good tweet that I thought was pretty insane or that we all thought it was pretty insane.

[00:25:11]0.1% of Polymarket users have earned 67% of the profits. Now, there are power laws and then there are power laws. This is a ridiculous power law.

[00:25:23]1.1 of the 1.6 million accounts studied were unprofitable. On Cal City, 2.9 users lose for everyone that wins. Some of that is to be expected. A lot of the kind of fun of some of these prediction markets, especially for like kind of cultural events and things like that, and mentioned markets, is just kind of like degen taking the long odds. So, you wouldn't expect everyone to win. But this is definitely an interesting stat to see here. What we are seeing right now is that about of the profits and the accounts that are able to be profitable, a lot of them are kind of human led and people are just having fun. But a lot of them increasingly are people vibe coding bots. I've seen a lot of this for Jupiter prediction markets as well, where people have these bots that are stood up that are constantly monitoring Twitter, constantly monitoring Reddit, constantly monitoring all these different sources, and using that information to bet on chain and kind of push the markets in the direction of truth. And I think it's pretty interesting. So, if you want to be part of the 0.1%, I encourage you to go use Jupiter prediction market, try vibe coding something, give it a little bit of money, and see what you're able to unlock with it. Which is very very fun. Color me shocked. People are saying this is the casino. Yeah, you got to be a little bit careful here. I will say that these odds are better than they are on pump fun and some of the places.

[00:26:30]You know, but you got to know what you're doing when you're using these.

[00:26:33]But if you do, they're very very cool.

[00:26:35]Collectible season is now here on Solana. I will say shout out to Collector Crypt, Visual, and a few of these others.

[00:26:42]Collector Crypt grading Pokémon cards, One Piece, and other sports cards on chain, turning a 15 billion trade dollar trading card economy into an on chain economy. Their revenue is crazy over here.

[00:26:52]$84 million in average monthly trading volume, $5,000 average spend per session. It's unbelievable. $85 million in revenue is nuts. I'm not sure exactly how they're counting the revenue here, but what is very clear is that collectibles are going to be a big deal.

[00:27:07]When we talk about tokenizing assets and real-world assets, this counts as part of that as well.

[00:27:13]And here's a little bit of alpha for the folks, especially the offer book folks.

[00:27:16]People were asking about that. We haven't even officially announced this, so please don't go tweet about this or I'll get in trouble.

[00:27:21]You can actually do more with your collectibles. If you are using collector crypts or some of these other kind of tokenized products, you can now actually take loans against those NFTs on Jupiter offer book. As I say, if you're not in it, you can DM me after this offer book at Jupiter.ag and I'll get you white listed. This is very cool. There's not a lot of liquidity on these yet. We're still kind of like testing it out and playing it out. Do not tweet this.

[00:27:41]This is still a little bit of a secret, but offer book is going to support tokenized assets as well. We're incredibly bullish about this, right?

[00:27:48]Whether it's cards, real estate, watches, something else entirely. Like these are all things that we want to be turning in from idle capital into productive capital where you can actually borrow against it, use that credit to to double down, to pay your bills, whatever else it might be. That is a very very big deal.

[00:28:03]But this is going to be very fun. Do not tweet it.

[00:28:06]I'm looking at you. Don't do that. I think it's hyper bullish. I love that people love the post so much. And lastly, one last good tweet that just came out.

[00:28:15]Securitize handshake emoji with Jump handshake emoji with you boys and girls over at Jupiter.

[00:28:22]Securitize in partnership with us and Jump Trading launching fully on-chain and regulated trading for tokenized equities on Solana.

[00:28:29]Incredibly cool, very excited to work with these guys. Securitize are actually partners on JUSD in a way as well cuz they helped tokenize BlackRock's middle fund which helps underlie JUSD. We've known these guys for a little while, working with them.

[00:28:41]Very excited about where this is going to go. Tokenized equities are going to be a bigger and bigger deal and Securitize is very well positioned. You need the liquidity though, that's often times the tricky part. That's what Jump brings, the distribution, the access to the consumers globally. That's what we're going to be able to bring. So, that is that.

[00:28:57]All right. We're about 30 minutes in.

[00:28:59]How people feeling? Feeling good? We're doing all right? Feel a little cowabunga. All right. Next up, we're going to bring on a special guest. Uh it's our first time having him on the call, and he's going to be a template.

[00:29:10]We'll see, no pressure, Sam. But if this one goes well, we want to have more kind of researchers on the call to share insights that might construct that might kind of help affect the way that you think about crypto going forward, not just the markets, but the core technology itself and where things are going to go. So, please please do me a little favor. Drop a little JM in the chat so we can have Sam Seabert in here from Blockworks. Sam, my guy, how's it going?

[00:29:37]Yeah, very well. Thanks for having me on today.

[00:29:39]Oh, it's an absolute pleasure, man. With a jawline like that, you should be on here every week. Let's just be honest.

[00:29:44]Uh it is great to have you here. I know that you help made a little presentation for the group. You can see that the the Planetary Call faithful you can see the comments on the screen, right? Look, they're so excited to see you, Sam. This is great. Uh maybe to start, can you tell people a little bit about yourself, how you got into crypto in the first place?

[00:30:01]Uh yeah, a bit about me. I'm from Australia. Um before crypto, I had a typical banking job um as an equity research analyst. And then over the last year, I decided to transition into crypto.

[00:30:12]Um been bullish a long time and following the market for a long time.

[00:30:16]And with everything happening with the clarity act and such, it seems like um a good time to move.

[00:30:22]I think that uh you made a very wise choice, man. It's good to good to have you here. Uh I know you've been thinking about uh your legal team as well. Uh so, we have to have a little legal slide in here. Uh do you want to do this or should I? Uh which which is more legally ba- or what?

[00:30:36]>> I'll do it. Yeah. Um so, just a disclaimer, so the information contained in this session by Blockworks things and related affiliates is for general information purposes only and is not intended to provide legal, financial, or investment advice. Anything said in this session should not be constructed as an offer or solicitation to buy or sell any security, token, or instrument and does not represent any recommendation or endorsement of any investment or financial product or service.

[00:31:03]And Blockworks and related affiliates are not registered as securities broker-dealer or an investment advisor.

[00:31:10]They are registered as insightful chads, is how I would say. Shout out to my guy Yianno and the rest of the Blockworks team.

[00:31:17]Obviously, we work with them. There's an awesome Jupiter dashboard. You guys should go check that out on Blockworks.

[00:31:21]Deep dive into a lot of the things that we're doing. They have an awesome investor relations product that people should go check out if you're more serious about that kind of thing. I think I can say that. I don't know if you're allowed to say that from a legal perspective, but I can say it. It's great. Go check it out. And then of course, there's some other podcasts and everything else. But, let's talk about you and your ideas today, Sam. What are you thinking as we head into May right now? And what is this right here?

[00:31:44]Yeah, so I guess we have a very mixed macro backdrop at the moment. Doesn't seem like anyone is too certain.

[00:31:51]And I guess that gap between the price action and macro conditions is one of like the key parts of the story. So, the Fed funds rate is around 3.6% at the moment within its target range and the FOMC decided to held steady on April 29th with an explicit easing bias going forward as the median dot still pencils in one cut before year end. However, if you look overseas, we're seeing quite the opposite as central banks are expecting rising inflation, which is different to the US setup given the Fed's dual mandate of employment and inflation. So, essentially the US can stay accommodative here, but most other central banks can't.

[00:32:33]And also, the Iran war isn't doing any favors on the inflation point of view with oil staying around 90 to 100 dollars. Um and historically this has been a couple quarters of a lag until we see high inflation prints, which it makes it hard for the easing cycle to keep going.

[00:32:51]Just for people who might not know, when you say the easing cycle or when you say there's an easing bias, what do you mean by that?

[00:32:56]Uh most most simply just rate cuts per se.

[00:33:00]Yes, got you. It's interesting to see the the kind of disparity between uh the US and the rest of the world here. When there is such a great disparity, like do you think the US is overwhelming weight in financial markets ends up kind of setting the pace or do you think we might see some more of a divergence between US markets and international markets?

[00:33:16]Um it's a good question. I mean every cycle's different um cuz I know in like 2016-2017 cycle the US was um actually had a negative like was raising rates.

[00:33:28]Um M2 was decreasing whereas the rest of the world like China was cutting a lot.

[00:33:32]Um but the US is a dominant player still in financial markets. So I'd see the fact they're cutting is still a positive sign.

[00:33:39]Um but the the rate rises we're seeing like for example Australia just increased their rates.

[00:33:45]Um my expectation is that it will have an effect but probably 6 to 12 months from now.

[00:33:51]Mhm, takes a little while.

[00:33:53]Uh you can take two slow power for that rate discrepancy. Anyways, we got some macro idiots. Uh okay, so obviously all of these kind of these kind of like global view is very helpful to have a a general kind of foundation of where things might go. Still going a little bit mixed of course on the on the macro side. Uh what are some of the indicators that you're looking at from a cycle to cycle basis?

[00:34:10]Yeah, I guess what one of the main indicators I like to look at is the ISM manufacturing PMI which printed at around 52.7 in April. Um which is >> You have to slow that out. What is the ISM uh PMI? So this is essentially just an indicator um a survey indicator if manufacturing companies are expanding or contracting. So above 50 represents expansion, above a or below 50 is um contraction. And essentially, we haven't seen um around We haven't seen consistent expansion since um 2021. Um so, if you are a believer in like the bull case for the next year, you could argue that most of the price action we've seen and we've never had a real big old coin season, um has just due to we've never we've never actually seen the underlying economy actually expand properly in order to get that risk on environment. Uh it's when the underlying economy is doing well, um everyone's making more money, there's rate rises, manufacturing expanding, and that's when people typically speculate on tech stocks, on crypto, and that's when we see um we might see Bitcoin continue to rise, but Bitcoin dominance actually starts to decrease, and that's when Solana, um your project tokens start to do very well. Um so, this is trying to just to contextualize, um perhaps the price action we've seen over the last four or five years hasn't been that favorable, but it can largely be explained by a lot of underlying um factors.

[00:35:42]Um another one's the copper to gold ratio, which I can go into as well.

[00:35:46]Please. Yeah, yeah.

[00:35:47]Um so, you the copper to copper to gold ratio um tells a very similar story. Um as both metals are essentially mined and produced at comparable scale and cost, but they signal very different things.

[00:36:00]So, gold is essentially the monetary hedge, where central banks like to um accumulate gold before they do big easing cycles, whereas copper on the other hand is industrial and attracts construction and manufacturing demand.

[00:36:14]So, the ratio is essentially a very clean read on where we are at a certain business cycle phase. As you have easing come first, where gold leads, and then you have the real economy responds, and that's when copper outperforms.

[00:36:26]Um and the ISM, um, typically you can see in the graph there that when you have that ratio of gold uh of copper over gold, that's typically when you see um Bitcoin and crypto market caps peak for that four to six-year cycle. Um, as you can see here, it's still very depressed. Um, we haven't had that up leg that represents the underlying economy doing well.

[00:36:50]Um, and this is very correlated to crypto market cap, Bitcoin, and other altcoins.

[00:36:56]That is a that's a great indicator. I don't know if I'm showing my own ignorance, but I have not actually seen the kind of copper gold indicator. Uh, Sam, I don't also don't know if you're checking in the chat. People are really digging this. This is a very educational and great stuff. Uh, keep going though.

[00:37:08]Let's talk about what is the tell us about the M2 money supply and what that's been looking like from the growth perspective.

[00:37:13]Yeah, and M2 as well. So, that's another good indicator, particularly the rate on rate change of growth is something that I like to look at. Um, and it's very So, usually we have like gold increasing and then you have M2 increasing. Um, but as you can see here, roughly like the rate when the rate of change, so the year on year or the six month on six months looks to be peaking, that's also a pretty clear indicator of market cycle tops as well. Um, and we have been getting some momentum here, but typically we get M2 momentum and then we see the copper to gold ratio to start to peak and then we see manufacturing ISM starts to peak. Um, so this is something we can see a bit of momentum at the moment. So, um, if M2 continues to rise, I see that as a very positive catalyst um for the year ahead.

[00:38:01]So, across these kind of three key indicators, we're starting it seems like to see uh some bullish kind of factors. Now, could be a fake out, could be it's a little bit early too early to tell, but certainly everything all three of these seem to be kind of poised to move in the right direction right now. Am I reading these correctly?

[00:38:17]Yeah, exactly. Like like you said, it is a momentum game.

[00:38:20]Um, but the fact we've had four manufacturing prints being positive in a row, um, as long as like in my opinion if we don't see another, I guess, war pop out or something like that that could hold hold an expansion. If we see that ISM go all the way up to 60, um, usually that's when everyone's making more money, more people are speculating, and crypto does the best.

[00:38:45]Very good. Uh, do you want to talk about the Bitcoin price or should we go on to the next slide here?

[00:38:49]Uh, yeah, the Bitcoin price is just yeah. You can see that with the the three lines, they're roughly they're closely related, although it's not perfect. Um, and it's also like an Obviously, we saw a double top in '21, which made it makes it a bit difficult. But you can see the first top, which was pretty much the same as the second top. Um, you can see that they're very in line with the manufacturing, copper-to-gold ratio, and M2 movement.

[00:39:15]Amazing. All right. Uh, and then I know you've uh So, this is a I think like a really useful kind of mental model for where things are going, where we are in the cycle, and where things might go, and the kind of key things to look out for. I What I really appreciate about this, Adam, is that so often when I'm talking about macro or thinking about macro, there's a thousand different indicators that people are looking at.

[00:39:32]And I think distilling it down to here of like, where is the activity in the real economy? How do you see that expressed through these kind of metals that obviously have very deep and liquid markets? Uh, and then how do you think about, of course, the M2 money supply?

[00:39:43]Um, it's clarifying to just have a a kind of a key focus over here. Uh, are we going to be able to get a copy of this presentation, Adam? We will We'll absolutely have clips of this. Uh, so you can definitely check that out.

[00:39:54]Uh, Real says, "Thanks for the financial advice." But, uh, not financial advice. I assume it is not, James reminding us. This is analyst. Do your own research. This is not financial advice. Just trying to give a sense of the market, but people seem to to really dig some of the insights here. Uh, all right. So, that's on the macro side. Let's talk about the micro side. Uh, well, the micro related to this call, at least, on the Jupiter side. Uh, how do you think about Jupiter and the Jupiter story?

[00:40:20]Um it is very compelling at the moment.

[00:40:22]I'd say particularly what we're seeing which we go into on the first slide around like spot spreads at the moment.

[00:40:28]So Jupiter's position as an aggregator within Solana really highlights I guess the value prop of Solana in crypto more generally.

[00:40:37]So I guess I'll go a bit into this chart. Um so over the last 2 years on Solana we've seen a new innovation of proprietary AMMs and they're essentially a market maker the same one that would be quoting on Binance or another exchange except they put their pricing and risk engine inside on chain inside the contract. And what they do is they reference external sex prices, they run their own simulations of where the price could be and they continuously update their quote on Solana.

[00:41:09]Um so that's one piece of the puzzle.

[00:41:10]The second piece of the puzzle is where aggregators like Jupiter come along.

[00:41:14]Um as Jupiter roots more than 90% of swap volume on Solana but essentially the aggregator like Jupiter forces all these proper AMMs to compete on every single trade and roughly 10 makers each time each second are submitting their just-in-time quotes and then the aggregator like Jupiter can essentially pick the best ones or even portions of each proper AMM to have just a top of the quotes across multiple market makers.

[00:41:45]And this is essentially what this chart is showing that now for both buyers and sellers you're consistently seeing a much cheaper execution price.

[00:41:56]So buyers are getting more So buyers are receiving more and sellers are getting more especially when you're including sex fees.

[00:42:04]So the chart here kind of highlights that as you can see over the last year the trend is now materially lower than Binance Um and even when you do a top lot of like 25% um standard deviation, um it's all consistently lower.

[00:42:22]Which is amazing. I mean, I've been in crypto long enough to remember the days when it seemed like this would be literally impossible. And the only reason you would ever trade on chain is cuz you get these long-tail assets that you can't get anywhere else. The idea that you might actually be able to get better price execution by actually coming directly on chain and that would be a reason to move liquidity on chain, I think is quite novel. Uh and indeed, if you are bullish on creating real value for real people, it's a very uh you know, real kind of value that's being created for the market as a whole.

[00:42:49]Uh and a big shout-out to Humidify and uh Bybit Finance and all the rest of the proper AMMs who are helping drive this.

[00:42:54]Uh um Very cool. Uh when you look at the DEX aggregator landscape, what do you see?

[00:43:00]Yeah, um so obviously it's in Jupiter's market share remain very strong over the years. Um even though with DFlow uh DFlow OKX and Titan becoming visible with small slices uh since 2025, um Jupiter's consistently sat above 90%. Um and this is really highlighting the market share dynamics at the moment. Uh and my point to why it would be sticky is because aggregator quality compounds here. More flow gives you better routing data, better data builds tighter quotes, tighter um tighter routes pull in more app integrations, and more app integrations pull in more flow. Um so obviously this chart is highlighting Jupiter's market share and how positive it is.

[00:43:40]Yeah, indeed. It's a Yeah, I think you did hit the nail on the head. Indeed, is that we just have more data that we're able to kind of optimize for. We're able to simulate better. We're able to track across all the other trades that are happening across on chain. Um and then use that to kind of influence kind of quotes uh and what we think is realistic and what the right slippage will be, automatic slippage detection, etc. Uh It's always great to see this kind of put out cuz obviously on the timeline sometimes things are are not as uh as dominant or not. Uh I will say shout-out to our friends over at DFlow, you know, uh good guys over there in the station and the rest of the guys got acquired by Moon Pay today, but yeah, the DEX aggregator wars on Solana, this is what the current state of it looks like, I suppose.

[00:44:14]Rough approximation to Jupiter is not a trade off, not not so far away.

[00:44:18]Um but then we get into perps. Now, this is an area where the story is a little bit different, I might argue. What do you What do you think in terms of perps here?

[00:44:26]Yeah, I mean, it's obviously perps is a massive story in crypto at the moment.

[00:44:29]Um we've seen hyperliquid success over the last couple years.

[00:44:33]Um and a lot of questions have kind of have arisen from like why haven't we seen the same amount of volume of perps on Solana like Solana applications. Um so, a recent report I did was just looking at um Drift um cuz it it's essentially has an on-chain it had an on-chain central limit order book um for perp um performance and you can see here that it it was a large tracking error. It was never able to successfully like um essentially give users the correct price. So, for any big sophisticated trader or active trader, this large tracking error would cause a lot of problems um and can it essentially explain why um why we haven't have much volume compared to hyperliquid per se. Um but that being said, there are a lot of developments that Solana is progressing to improve its microstructure.

[00:45:26]Um for example, Jito Bam is already live, which is a block builder um with an encrypted mempool and plug-in framework that one day should let perp venues control their own sequencing with things like cancel before before take plugins. There's also Auburn Glow and Anza's Constellation MCP proposal on the horizon, which should decrease block times and also um eliminate some of the problems that Solana has because of its leader base system. Um but at the moment um you could argue it hasn't really been the applications' uh fault for not achieving as much volume. It's largely been these architectural constraints on Solana.

[00:46:07]But the positive sign here is that they are actively aware of this and actively improving infrastructure upgrades. So one day, hopefully, we see a world where individual applications on top of Solana can compete with big players like like Hyperliquid.

[00:46:27]And then on to the next one is where another part of the report we did was highlighting Jupiter's success.

[00:46:34]So Jupiter uses a pool oracle base perp where GLP essentially takes the other side.

[00:46:40]In our report, we highlighted how this is the most composable design across Solana DeFi and built on a distribution mode that compounds with the rest of the ecosystem.

[00:46:51]And a key point of our note was that we believe Jupiter's success highlights how strong distribution and a go-to-market can also lever success in the perps domain, which perhaps other perps protocols have struggled to do.

[00:47:05]As you can see in the chart here, the only other player with notable volumes is Pacifica. However, it's important to note that Pacifica is largely off Solana compared to Jupiter being a fully fully composable within Solana. Mhm.

[00:47:21]And yeah, I'm not sure about Pacifica if it's fearless trading as well, if I'm not mistaken there. So maybe fits there.

[00:47:26]Yeah, I think it's definitely interesting. You know, we're all Jupiter, I can say this and I think it goes for the entire Solana ecosystem.

[00:47:32]Like we want to do better on perps.

[00:47:34]Certainly, like we can improve. I think GLP as a model is really effective and it's created an asset that is used by everyone. For people who don't know, like the delta neutral trade on GLP was the single most popular trade of this last cycle for any professional investor, basically.

[00:47:47]And GLP is like a major asset not just in Jupiter land, but other lending markets and so on. So there's more to come. Yeah, there's Phoenix from Elipsis is making a shot at it. Bulk is making a shot at it. There's a few people that are starting to come in. So, we'll see what's coming. Of course, we have our own bet here with Jupiter coming up. Uh that might be able to kind of push the envelope on what's really possible, but more about that another time, I suppose.

[00:48:07]Uh and then the the growth of Jupiter prediction markets is something else that you should be tracking.

[00:48:12]Yeah, yeah. So, this highlighting some Blockworks research data here. Um so, obviously prediction markets is another domain um that Jupiter's moved into um first integrating of Kalshi back in October.

[00:48:24]Um uh but then in early February, Jupiter essentially integrated with Polymarket and the volume profile switched since then and has since um quadrupled. Um strategically, in my opinion, it's the same the same playbook Jupiter has run on the DEX aggregation side, essentially being the routing layer that abstracts the venue so users can stay on Solana and Jup- Jupiter handles the rest uh where the underlying liquidity actually lives.

[00:48:51]That's right.

[00:48:52]Uh and then you saw some sectors that in here. I mean, this is why I love the Blockworks uh data team, man. This is like data that's arguably better than our internal data in terms of like what we're able to track and see here. Uh so, yeah, what are you looking at when you see the different types of markets people are are using in Jupiter predict?

[00:49:07]Yeah, yeah. So, just looking at Jupiter predict and then looking at Polymarket.

[00:49:10]Um yeah, our engineering team has been hard at work as um prediction market data is often notoriously hard to like break down. Um but as you can see here that um the underlying sector trends show that's Polymarket's open interest by category um as it's essentially grown from 70 million in early '25 to now over 340 million. Uh politics is still the biggest category, but the mix has started to diversify meaningfully with sports and crypto also building a real share. Um and this is a sustained uh essentially highlighting product market fit with it sustains post-election growth um instead of just a 2024 election spike. And in my opinion, highlighting how the sector is both durable and is only going to get deeper and deeper from here.

[00:50:00]Yeah, absolutely. I think that the only sad thing about this chart is that it's not all happening on Solana, but we're we're trying to help change that a little bit here. I guess on that on that point, Polymarket's VP of engineering did confirm that they are looking to migrate away from Polygon due to having the gas fees too high, settlement speed too low. Um so, it is a possibility that we could see Polymarket move to another chain, possibly Solana.

[00:50:26]Do you have a bet on which one it is? If you there was a prediction market on this, where would you put your funds?

[00:50:31]Um I as in where where Polymarket would move to?

[00:50:35]Yeah, yeah. Do you think they build their own chain? Do you think they use existing infrastructure? What's your bet?

[00:50:39]>> Um I'm leaning to using existing infrastructure.

[00:50:44]Solana would probably be my frontrunner at the moment just due to its throughput advantages.

[00:50:49]It already has a massive ecosystem with you guys and a range of other applications and users.

[00:50:54]So, it makes sense from like a composability point of view to easily plug into other areas and already have a strong user base.

[00:51:02]Um so, Solana would be probably my number one bet at the moment.

[00:51:07]There we go. All right.

[00:51:09]Sam, this was fantastic. We should do this section every call, and you should probably come back every goddamn call.

[00:51:15]Please, drop a little W in the chat if you enjoyed this section with Sam, if you learned a little bit of something.

[00:51:19]This is just fed fantastic. So, a deep dive into the kind of macro kind of sentiment, what things you should be looking for along with some charts about Jupiter that I did not ask him to make.

[00:51:29]No one asked him to make these. Put these charts together himself. If you want even more high-quality data, Jesus, look at that the chat is. This is crazy.

[00:51:37]If you want even more high-quality data about Jupiter, but also about crypto in general, please do go ahead over to Blockworks. They have a ton of dashboards, some of the best data in the game, deep dive reports, things on financials that you're not going to see anywhere else. Very much encourage people to check it out. And go follow Sam as well. Sam, what is your Twitter handle?

[00:51:55]Oh, yeah. My Twitter handle it at X is at Minnus, m i n n u s. Um so yeah, just follow me there. If you guys have any questions, feel free to reach out. I'm active in the DMs so on threads and stuff like that. So happy to help.

[00:52:08]>> What does What does Minnus mean? Why Minnus?

[00:52:11]>> What? Just Just random. Just random.

[00:52:13]Just random. All right. Cool. Sam, thank you very much for coming on, man. It was great having you. Appreciate it.

[00:52:18]>> Awesome. Cheers, guys. Cheers, buddy.

[00:52:20]Bye-bye. Bye.

[00:52:21]All right. How good was that? That was great.

[00:52:25]Very Are we liking this Yeah, please go follow Sam. That was That was fantastic.

[00:52:29]If you want more high-quality insights like that, you can find them over on Sam's page.

[00:52:34]Let's see. So good. People are digging digging it.

[00:52:38]The new platform format doing pretty nice. And with that, we're going to move into the final section. I have 7 minutes to go through it. So we're going to go very, very quickly.

[00:52:47]Jupiter product alpha. Some things that you should know about what's going on.

[00:52:49]First and foremost, X stocks on Jupiter.

[00:52:52]If you don't know, now you know.

[00:52:54]You can take your X stocks into Jupiter lend, borrow stables against them for as little as 0.1 I think it's up to 0.2% now. But 20 bips to borrow stables is nonsense. It's crazy. We have a $20,000 rewards hub campaign active right now.

[00:53:08]And you can get a 1.1x boost for completing the lessons on Jupiter Academy all the while earning X points.

[00:53:14]A very simple strategy. This is not financial advice, but you can think about it if you'd like.

[00:53:18]Go get some SPY X, right? Just get that as as an index fund. I think get some broad exposure to the equity markets in the US. Deposit it into Jupiter lend, borrow out JUP USD, throw that into the juice loop, and all of a sudden you have a yield-bearing kind of SPY strategy.

[00:53:34]It's not financial advice. You can go check that out yourself. Do your own research and so forth. But X stocks on Jupiter, this is the alpha. I don't know how long it's going to last. Go get it now. I It is a very lucrative strategy.

[00:53:46]The second bit of alpha here, Jupiter Verified, is crushing. Brand new website, beautiful beautiful website.

[00:53:52]On-chain data, AI signals, community reviews distilled into a single human-reviewed data layer. This is one of those things that's not sexy, but is absolutely essential for how we scale.

[00:54:01]Being on chain is a dark forest. It is terrifying. There's so much scary [ __ ] happening and so much misinformation, so many scams that you have to be aware of.

[00:54:10]Uh and Verified is a way to actually have high-quality human-curated content for those tokens. When I talked to asset issuers who are coming on chain for the first time, they lose their [ __ ] at Verified. They're like, "This is exactly what we need. How do people know that it's the real XYZ token and not something else? How do they get key updates about us?" People are using the APIs that are live now, as well. And I don't know if I'm allowed to say who's using it, but a very large company that everyone on this call knows is using it, and many more are going to be using it soon to get that. Big shout out to May, the empress goated. People love her in the chat. People love her in the office.

[00:54:40]People love her everywhere. Uh May is great. Scarlet, the rest of the team, Honey, uh and so many others uh putting this together, making it awesome.

[00:54:48]Um and lastly, don't forget about the Jupiter prediction bot. You can join clans and trade on real-world events with your friends live at any time. You can scan this little QR code to get started. I think in the first 2 months there are no fees, as well. Also, a great referral program, so you can bring your friends on. The more they use it, the more you benefit, as well. Definitely encourage people to check this out. The Jupiter Predict bot is super fun. Look at this little guy. Look how much fun he's having. He's having a blast.

[00:55:14]Uh all right. With that said, the last little bit of alpha, yes, go bet on Bayern versus PSG tonight. The last little bit of alpha, we're going to bring on the big homie himself, Mr. Wei Like. Please drop a little jam in the chat. God damn it, I demand it.

[00:55:28]What's going on, Wei Like? How you doing?

[00:55:33]One more time for the people at home, Wei Like. How you doing?

[00:55:36]I'm good. I'm good. How you? How are you? Yeah.

[00:55:39]I'm doing well. Waylan is actually right over there. I can see the top of his head. Hello.

[00:55:44]So, it's going to be a little bit fun to go through this, but the chat is excited to have you here. Waylan, for the people who don't know, who are you? What do you do around these parts?

[00:55:53]Right. So, I'm the lead engineer of the Ultra Trading Engine. So, the Ultra Trading Engine basically refers to like the engine behind all the swaps that you do on Jupiter. So, market orders, limit orders, DCA orders, all this is like the Ultra Trading Engine. Yeah, and basically I'm in charge of all of that.

[00:56:11]Yeah.

[00:56:12]I mean, it's a big thing to be in charge of given that it is the number one most used kind of like trading engine around.

[00:56:18]So many sort of times you say it very casually and humbly, but I I do think that you you do the Lord's work on this helping traders trade better. Everyone trusts all this.

[00:56:28]The Ultra Trading Engine is incredible.

[00:56:30]Kadoshi is correct.

[00:56:32]And a fun little fact, do you know where the name Ultra came from?

[00:56:36]Wait, I actually don't know. I guess.

[00:56:39]Yeah.

[00:56:40]And I was hanging out with Meow in Dubai. We were walking down the street in the Dubai Marina and he was describing how Ultra was going to work and I was like, "Wow, man, that's not trading, that's like Ultra [clears throat] trading." in a little joke voice. And then he he literally stopped in the street and was like, "That's what we're going to call it." I was like, "All right, I was saying that as a joke, but [ __ ] it."

[00:56:57]Anyway, it's worked out pretty well and obviously people love it in large part because of the great work that you and the rest of the team are doing. And you seemingly never sleep is what I understand because you guys keep on shipping. And recently you shipped something new for the people. What did you ship out here?

[00:57:15]Right. So, the latest thing that we shipped is the second version, the new version of DCA or dollar cost average orders. So, basically like we always had DCA V1. I think it was launched maybe like 2 3 years ago.

[00:57:30]And there were some limitations to it.

[00:57:32]So, we decided you know like during capital board that's when the planning began and then we like okay we need to do a V2 and we finally released it I think maybe a month ago.

[00:57:42]Yeah.

[00:57:43]>> [clears throat] >> And why did we need an updated version here? It's a little it's been a little bit old obviously people have been using it for that time.

[00:57:51]Many people should know dollar cost averaging is the best way to enter positions and build positions over time by buying things at regular intervals rather than just kind of all in one shot anything around points.

[00:58:00]Talk a little bit about like what the user feedback was and kind of what your thinking was what we could do better on DCA V2.

[00:58:06]>> [clears throat] >> Right I think the like during capital we started hearing more and more complaints of like this issue where our users were getting front run by people who run bots because basically how DCA V1 worked was that all the orders and all the information was stored on chain. So all these malicious actors they could just read the chain predict when your DCA order was going to land and basically buy before you and basically front run your order so that you're buying at the worst price.

[00:58:36]Right so that was one of the main things that we wanted to solve in the new version and on top of that like the V1 architecture kind of limited the tokens that we could support.

[00:58:46]Um so for example like we wouldn't be able to support tokenized um assets such as X stocks pre-stocks you know RWAs that you mentioned previously and there were also many complaints such as like DCA V1 oh you have a minimum of $50 that you can place an order. Like that was a very common thing. Right and all these all these things we took in consideration when we built the V2 and I mean the current version of V2 eliminates all of these problems.

[00:59:15]Yeah.

[00:59:16]Amazing. [clears throat] So the problems were kind of vast people used it they loved it but they had many more kind of needs for it. In particular getting picked off by other bots and getting front run is a little bit of a scary experience and not being able to do it with small amounts or for all tokens, you know, obviously that's not non-starter for the future of finance that we're trying to build where anybody anywhere can trade anything. Uh and so what is actually new in DCA V2?

[00:59:40]Right. So, I think the first thing you're going to notice when you try DCA V2 is um something we call like the price range. In V1, you can set like I only want my DCA order to execute within this price range. So, in V1, this price range is based on the pool rate, which is basically means like X token against Y token.

[01:00:00]But in V2, it's based on the USD price, which we think is a more intuitive way uh approach to this. So, it's probably a better user experience.

[01:00:10]Secondly, um as I mentioned, it can support like a wider range of tokens. So, any tokens that you want like X stocks, pre-stocks.

[01:00:19]What is uh you know, like there's campaign on pre uh X stocks by the way.

[01:00:22]So, you might want to check that out.

[01:00:24]So, yeah, if you use DCA, not only do you like it works for these tokens, but you also qualify for rewards in the rewards hub.

[01:00:33]It doesn't work for V1 by the way.

[01:00:35]Yeah. Oh. And the yeah, the issue of like the minimum size that I was talking about like $50 for V1, we reduced it to $10 in V2 because it's more efficient so we can actually afford to reduce the minimum size.

[01:00:48]Yeah. So, all this like we have removed um all these issues because it's backed by the trading engine. So, actually underneath the hood is actually using the same technology that we use for like the ultra market orders, which basically means like you know, there's less slippage, better transaction lending, more slippage uh MEV protection. So, all this is like built into DCA V2. Yeah.

[01:01:13]Wow. Incredible. Token 22 is T 22 for people who don't know. It's a particular token standard. The normal one is SPL tokens. Those are like the vast majority of tokens. Token 22 enables additional features like uh transfer hooks and you know uh kind of dividends and clawbacks and all these other things like that. Uh so basically, a lot of the tokens, especially like RWA tokens, some stablecoins, some like kind of cool yield products use this new standard for a bunch of different reasons.

[01:01:38]>> [clears throat] >> Uh and now you can buy those as well.

[01:01:41]Seong doesn't like it. Yeah, that's Do you like Token 22 uh 2022, Waylan?

[01:01:46]No, no, I don't like it. I mean, it's painful to spot, but I I do recognize that it's necessary for like um compliance reasons and such. Yeah.

[01:01:54]Yeah, it's important.

[01:01:56]>> good. Yes. Yes, yeah, yeah. It's important, but not fun from a developer perspective. But you do see every two >> good.

[01:02:02]We ate all that pain so that you don't have to. So you can still buy those uh and just watch uh Waylan cry in the background every time you have to [laughter] have to count it.

[01:02:11]All right, so that's what's new. How does it actually work? Especially this kind of like stealth uh mode idea.

[01:02:16]>> [clears throat] >> Can you explain a little bit more about how DCA V2 actually works under the hood?

[01:02:20]Right. So I mentioned that the issue of um users front running the orders is because they could read the orders on chain. So what we have done here is we have brought the order information off chain so that now um the malicious actors could no longer like read from chain and easily front run you. Right? And additionally, like uh it's not possible for somebody else to query your orders um and basically have some some form of authentication um on our API to to restrict that. Now so basically, the idea is it's off chain.

[01:02:52]We try to make it as private as possible to prevent people from front front running your orders. And um yeah.

[01:02:59]It's powered by Ultra.

[01:03:02]The best. [clears throat] Yeah, I think that this really matters, right? Like being on chain is it itself a dark forest, right? There's a lot of kind of malicious people out there that if they can take a penny from you, they're going to try and take the penny from you. Uh and this is a way that we kind of like keep users safe and ensure that you actually do get the best price without getting front run at all. So, uh you know, sometimes people think about like off-chain as being itself scary. In this case, it's actually like a way to protect you better.

[01:03:27]Scarlet says this is good for the litter box. That is correct. I think last year DCA and LO, do you remember how much they made roughly? Was it like 10-ish million dollars?

[01:03:36]Something like that across the two?

[01:03:38]In fees?

[01:03:40]Yeah. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah, something like that. And Scarlet is really out. Half of that goes into the litter box. So, that's like $5 million [clears throat] in in Jupiter's over there. And hopefully more and more. I think especially as more kind of like retail and normal traders come on chain and as more people get educated about the types of assets that you want to buy. And critically as there are more assets that you would actually want to buy on a consistent basis.

[01:04:04]Historically, that has not always been the case. There's not very many assets that I want to buy this month and next month and the next week and the next week. As those assets come on chain, I think things like DCA become even more important and will continue to grow.

[01:04:14]Especially now that it has these fancy new features that Way Lang and the team have used. Do you have any open DCAs right now, Way Lang?

[01:04:22]I for sure, but I'm not going to say anything.

[01:04:25]See, I tried to trick you. I tried to I tried to He's too smart. This is why he leads Jupiter Ultra. He's You can't You can't catch him out over on this this side over here. But Oh, and then there's [clears throat] a a brand new announcement live right now. It is DCA into XDX. You were supposed to finish the sentence.

[01:04:47]We could tell we did not rehearse this before we got into this.

[01:04:51]>> [laughter] >> So, this has been live for how long, Way Lang?

[01:04:58]Like I mean, we should be like this afternoon, actually.

[01:05:02]Yeah.

[01:05:03]Always last minute, you know, over here.

[01:05:06]That's the way we like to do it over here.

[01:05:09]>> [laughter] >> DCA into XDX. Again, this is like I I have DCA set up with my traditional brokers. I again, I'm not telling you to buy anything in particular, but I am telling you that when you buy you should use limit orders and you should use DCA.

[01:05:21][clears throat] You should not use market orders most of the time. It's just not a smart strategy.

[01:05:27]Warren Buffett and any other kind of trading guru will tell you the same thing. [clears throat] And now you can build your stock portfolio fully on chain with XStocks, with Jupiter, and DCA over here. I think this is a a giant uh an important uh kind of uh development here, which is great. Uh what was Satchel's top tier comment? Uh cup by Satchel. I think bro's DCA'ing into this episode.

[01:05:47]>> [laughter] >> Yes. Uh good for DCA. Boomer generational wealth. That's right. That is the the way to do it. Well, I think you and the boys really cooked. Anyone else you want to give a little shout out to uh while you're up here in front of uh you know, 2.4 thousand of our friends?

[01:06:03]Yeah, I mean um follow the the develop developers Twitter for more updates, you know.

[01:06:10]There are more updates coming to Ultra soon. Yeah, stay tuned.

[01:06:14]Yeah.

[01:06:15]That's about it. I can see Ultra getting better right here.

[01:06:18]Bro has not moved his head this entire time. He's locked all the way in. 2:00 a.m. he's still going.

[01:06:25]So, [laughter] let's do like that. It's awesome.

[01:06:28]Uh well, I like thanks for coming on.

[01:06:29]Thanks for all the good work, obviously.

[01:06:31]Uh and we will catch you very soon.

[01:06:33]Appreciate you, buddy.

[01:06:36]Bye.

[01:06:38]Drop a little W in the chat for my guy Way Like, please. His first time on the planet, I recall. And of all the ones to come on, he came on uh the kind of first of the new format as well, which is lovely to see. Sunbro says it, Scarlet says it, uh my guy Adam says it, Juan Carlo, Luigi, Bork Toji, everybody does it. All right, beautiful. Good. Thank you very much. Lucid and Harry and Datcoin, Alba. You hearing all this, Way Like? You hearing any of this? Are you still here? Look how much they love you.

[01:07:02]He's blushing. Can I bring him back on?

[01:07:03]Oh, he turned off his camera. He's blushing.

[01:07:05]He's >> [laughter] >> He's saying, "No, don't bring me back up over there.

[01:07:09]Anyway, he's great. All right, cool.

[01:07:12]Listen, folks, I said an hour, it's an hour and 4 minutes. I don't feel I'm so close so so so close. I will say that we do like the yield. There's plenty of yield for you to get right now on chain on Jupiter. JLPs at 6.9%, JUP SOL at 6.2, stablecoins on lend. I think JUP JUP USDC is at 5.3% last time I checked.

[01:07:31]Double check that math.

[01:07:33]Multiply loops on pegged assets up to 22 and 1/2%. And of course, stake your goddamn JUP if you have it for 21.6% APY with ASR claims live right now. All right, that's about it. Want to say thank you for joining. Would love to know what people like Do people like the format? Should we do more of this?

[01:07:50]Should we do less of this? What should we do to change it up? Major shoutout to Srijani, to Lenny, to the rest of the team. I know at least you and many others kind of helped contribute to make this happen. But on-chain media really making a push here.

[01:08:03]I liked it a lot. Banger format, as some people say.

[01:08:06]I thought it was very fun. Offer book is coming soon in public beta. If you need an invite to the private beta, please shoot me a DM. Uno and whoever else asked it over there, and I will help get you going. Please subscribe to the YouTube page. Get your friends to subscribe. Send it to your baby mamas.

[01:08:22]Send it to your baby papas. Send it to your aunts and uncles. Send it to your devs who are awake but also on messaging apps late at night, and you will, like me, have a little bit more fun. We will put all the clips up so you can rewatch the Sam section. There's a lot of great alpha in that and some other places as well. Anyway, my name is Cash Dano. It is late. You don't have to go home, but you cannot stay here, my friends. I will see you in 2 weeks' time on the next one. Good bye.