'This is what racism in British schools looks like now': James O'Brien callers

Added: 2026-06-04

[00:00:00]We're looking at 70,000 English children being suspended from school over racist, homophobic, and disableist abuse. Uh, and of course, a surge in racism in this country has been caused in large part by politicians like honest Bob Genrich, who instead of disparaging the police, rights Jay should um perhaps be taking a long hard look in the mirror. Ah, chicken and egg, I suppose. But uh key question today is what you do when your child comes home and tells you that they've been on the receiving end of racist, homophobic or disabilist abuse.

[00:00:32]Sweetie is in Warick. Sweetie, what would you like to say?

[00:00:35]>> Um the school that my daughter attends at, she's in year 10. Um I don't feel that they knew how to deal with it when the first incident happened a couple of months ago. The girl was um walking around with one of the teachers, yet my daughter had been put in isolation for retaliating. My daughter is Jamaican Indian, >> right?

[00:00:53]>> Beautiful girl. Um, >> and recently she's had a bottle of Luta poured all over her. She's likened to Mark Henry, who is a black bodybuilder, although she doesn't look anything like him. And she was called the N-word. She was called >> I I I've had to dump what you just said because the words are very much um policed by the broadcasting regulators and and there is an argument for context. People won't need much help guessing what words you used. Well, I'll tell them you used the you used the N word that that I could probably mount a defense of context if I'd known it was coming and and and if I and I feel bad that I had to remove the words that you just said from the program, but the rules are the rules. So, so your daughter was called the N-word and the B- word at the same time by a classmate at her school. And your daughter is about 15 years old. And this happened about two months ago. Is that right?

[00:01:47]>> Yes. And what was sad she said at the time she was actually stood there like is this actually happening again because our friends she suffered racism anyway from the Indian side because they're not meant to mixed with blacks you know and that's the way it is >> now so she's a strong person but our friends are 99.9% white and we can't go down this road it I actually classify my white friends as my family um the school she's addressed the board of governor she wrote a statement saying a white board of governors, they can sympathize, but they really can't know what it feels like to look in a mirror and be made to hate your skin. Now, I can't go down those roads. Um, you know, I've had to strengthen her, make her know that she's beautiful. I knew she'd go through the phase of putting on heavy makeup again, but the school are also doing >> that. That's to change her color, the heavy makeup. Uh it's to I suppose it's like when women get insecure, we do suffer from insecurities. Um it's rubbing off on men as well now. But you've made the child feel ugly. Now what they've done in her, they've lit another fire in her. She's had her head down since she's come home on Friday.

[00:02:56]She got mock exams. My mom has always taught us that we have to work twice as hard, which is quite sad. I'm 45. I have never suffered any form of bullying like this. But since lockdown and the flags flying, it is out there in the schools.

[00:03:12]I I feel sorry for the teachers. It's hard for them to deal with >> the only way to re-educate.

[00:03:18]>> Of course, it is. And and I'm just going to take you back if I can that the because you mentioned it being a relatively recent.

[00:03:26]>> It's been building up for about seven, eight months, possibly as long as a year, but she felt that she doesn't want to report it. She doesn't want to come across as a victim either.

[00:03:35]>> Oh, I'm sorry. Do the do the school know that the that that those two words were used against?

[00:03:41]>> Um yes they do. And what did they do about that? Her form tutor her form tutor um stood behind her and she actually questioned whether this other child should be at the school because he doesn't turn up to study. He truents a lot. Now he's been taken out of the school and allowed to attend just his GCSE exams and he's not allowed to the school prom.

[00:03:59]>> Is that as a consequence of what he said to your daughter?

[00:04:02]>> Yes. Okay. So this would be one of this would be very strongly. This would be one of the 70,000 cases then. It's a classic example.

[00:04:09]>> Yes. My child, I mean, she's applied to become head girl, you know. Yes. Good luck. The school she's at is a predominantly white school. I've been told by my son's football dad that it's a farming area. I don't care about that.

[00:04:21]We farm in India. We could compare notes, >> you know, and that's where putting these barriers up is really really sad because these children I myself having mixed race children now wonder what sort of world am I leaving them in? Have I left them with a mixed identity?

[00:04:36]>> You've got a lot going on and it's hard it's hard for me to >> you know with teenagers regarding self harm. I had to take the week off. I want to watch my child. I don't want to see cuts in the arms and stuff. It's happening too much.

[00:04:47]>> What What do you say to her about the the specifically the racial abuse that she has received? How do you what do you say to her about >> I know that they're jealous. They're jealous. Everybody I mean women are generally like that. They I used to be really really obese or you want to be slim. But I'm not going to attack the slim ones for it. You have to work on yourself now. You can't work on your skin color. I'm not having her like we've got family that bleach their skin.

[00:05:11]I'm not having her do that because it looks awful. Be proud of your skin.

[00:05:16]>> Does it work? Does she Does she >> It does work. I I put it into her and then I play her reggae music like Tara Riley Baris Hammond to make the most of it. And I am taking her to Jamaica this year because >> to be proud proud of her >> to be proud of who she is to be proud and I'm proud to be even British Indian.

[00:05:34]I said my mom runs pubs in Warrick and I stand there and I say to them, you know, we're all friends. We share things together. You know, you got to learn our courage and I knew what a poached egg was. Yeah, I'm born here. But yes, the government and everything they do now is making times hard for people. Um it doesn't help in Warick. We've got hotel housing asylum seekers. So, a lot of people have got their arms up in the air, but they need to do their history.

[00:05:57]We went to those countries. We were not told as a general civilian what was going on, and we we acquired resources.

[00:06:04]It should have been about fair trade.

[00:06:06]I've got um a 7-year-old child um that was that's now in year two. She's going to school and um about a month ago, we had an incident that took place in school. Um she was she was in school.

[00:06:18]She was in R lesson and they were learning about different religions. So, a bit of background, we're Muslims, so obviously we're born and raised in UK, Muslim sort of family. Um, and there was a a child that was sitting next to her that sort of looked at her and then said, um, "Oh, I don't like Islam." And then she was really surprised. She was like, "Oh, but I'm Muslim." And she said, "Oh, yeah." Um, first she said, "I don't like Muslims." And when my child said, "Oh, you know, but I'm Muslim."

[00:06:43]And she was like, "Oh, I don't like Islam."

[00:06:45]>> And she was really confused and didn't know what to do. So, obviously, she didn't report nothing at the time to the teacher. She just came home really confused and then she spoke to us.

[00:06:52]>> Can I ask what she said? Can you remember how what what what words she used to to articulate what had happened to her.

[00:06:57]>> So, so she came home and she said, "Mom, so was obviously was having dinner at the time."

[00:07:02]>> Yeah.

[00:07:02]>> And she said and she was just she just looked we can tell when something's wrong with her. She sort of has a she's really a lively and happy and mischievous child. And this time around she was just sitting there a little bit quiet.

[00:07:12]>> Yeah.

[00:07:12]>> I just I said everything all right. And then she and she said um she goes, "Oh no." Um she goes, "Something happened at school today." I said, "What happened?"

[00:07:20]She goes, "Oh, well, one of the one of my she said her name and she said she was um she she said something um horrible to me." I said, "What did she say?" And she said, "Oh, she said she didn't like Muslims."

[00:07:31]When we were learning about >> Just stop there. Just stop there. What What What did you feel at that point? At that moment >> to be fair it was a it was it was disheartening um disappointing sad because the area that I grew up in is is sort of you know there has been a history of sort of racism within the area. Unfortunately when I was younger um I suffered it quite a bit myself.

[00:07:53]>> Yeah.

[00:07:53]>> Um >> did you think did you think things had got better >> or did things get better for a while?

[00:07:58]>> I think there was a moment a period of time when when things had got a lot lot better. you know it was it you know these sort of comments things wasn't happening and I genuinely thought we'd sort of turned a corner >> and we were going towards a society that was going to be respectful of everybody that's going to be tolerant understanding >> we were getting there weren't we but these things are always just in obeyance I think I understand now they're always just waiting to crawl back out of the darkness aren't they when an opportunity presents itself so what did you say who who who who led the conversation now you or your wife who or did you do it >> was mainly me cuz um my wife's from um a different part of London so She grew up in a different part of London. So she she she's been in a very diverse area.

[00:08:34]So obviously she's not really had that experience in her life.

[00:08:37]>> Oh, down with diversity, eh?

[00:08:39]>> Go on. What did you say to her? What did you say to your girl?

[00:08:43]>> Um, so I mean the only thing I could do was I sort of sat down. I said to her, "Look, you know, don't be disheartened.

[00:08:47]Don't be upset. Sometimes people don't really understand. They don't really know what they're saying and things do happen. Um, you've just got to sort of obviously make sure things do happen.

[00:08:56]You always let mommy and daddy know.

[00:08:57]>> You always tell your teachers."

[00:08:58]Obviously, she hadn't reported anything to a teacher at the time cuz she didn't know. She She didn't understand what happened cuz it was the first time it's ever happened to her.

[00:09:04]>> Sure. She's seven. She's seven years old.

[00:09:06]>> Seven years old. Yeah.

[00:09:07]>> Oh, mate.

[00:09:09]>> Did you tell the school?

[00:09:10]>> We did. Yeah. So, but so my wife went in the next day, spoke to the school teacher. She was absolutely appalled. Um really apologetic. Um trying to be really supportive.

[00:09:21]>> Um they they then did sort of tell the lead teacher who was who was sort of in charge of um this type of behavior. Um and and for a week everything just went quiet. Nothing happened. We didn't hear anything back. So my wife sort of had to chase it back with her class teacher again saying, "Hey, look, just let you know we've not heard anything. We don't know what's happened." And then she was like, "Oh my god, she goes, I left it to her thinking she would have dealt with it. We've not heard anything." So then the teacher goes, "Let me chase it up."

[00:09:45]So she's had to then chase it up. And then they've had to sort of eventually got round to giving us a call again and just updating us on the situation.

[00:09:51]>> Okay. I mean, the the really heartbreaking thing here is that that class is designed to diffuse precisely the ignorance that was displayed by your by your little girl's classmate, isn't it? And yet, >> one imagines that working on the I think almost irresistible presumption that she's picked up this attitude at home, one imagines that her parents would be precisely the sort of people to object to their daughter being taught about Islam.

[00:10:16]>> Yeah. I mean, look, it's obviously you can't you can't and and and it's it's it's both sad and upsetting because the thought that went into my head is as a sevenyear-old, >> there should be no way where where you're seven and and you're thinking, I don't like a religion, a people, a race, whatever it might be, you you just don't have that information. How are you making this?

[00:10:38]>> Nobody Nobody's born like that, are they?

[00:10:40]>> Absolutely not. I picked up the phone because I've got um a six-year-old granddaughter who went to school and one of her classmates turned around and said she wasn't going to play with her because she had brown skin.

[00:10:55]>> At six.

[00:10:56]>> At six.

[00:10:59]>> How did you find out? Who did she told her mom first? Did she? And her mom told you?

[00:11:03]>> Yes. Her mom got on the phone to me. She was absolutely mortified that at that age um >> well at any age but it just feels harsher doesn't it? It's harder at 6 years old.

[00:11:15]>> 6 years old. Yeah. I was absolutely gutted to think that another child could say that at that age.

[00:11:24]>> What happened?

[00:11:26]>> So what happened was um my daughter got in contact with the school. The school then pulled the parents in but it took a while. It wasn't sort of like the next day. It took about a week to organize a meeting. They had a a talk with parents and they spoke to the child. Um because the feeling was where did the child get this sort of uh ideas from and language from to talk to another child in the school like it?

[00:11:56]>> And were mom was mom happy with how they dealt with it?

[00:12:02]>> Um as happy as she could be.

[00:12:04]>> How they dealt with it? not not what happened. I mean that she felt that her concerns had been properly addressed.

[00:12:11]>> Yes, she did. That's good.

[00:12:12]>> But she she said she shouldn't >> you shouldn't have to go down to the school and be like this for a six-year-old. I mean >> my daughter's mixed race and my granddaughter's mixed race. And um I when I had to look after my granddaughter when she went for the meeting, she she asked me nan, she said um why did she say it? And >> I I just had to turn around and say to her the first thing that came into my head is because you're special and people sometimes can't understand special people. So you've got to be patient with them.

[00:12:48]>> They get a bit jealous.

[00:12:50]>> That's very generous of you, isn't it? I mean, because your top priority is is helping her while simultaneously wanting her to feel less pain. And as I said to Ally, not wanting her to not wanting to tell her that she shouldn't be hurt by it because it is just hurtful. It's a horrible thing. It's the worst thing you can say to a six-year-old.

[00:13:08]>> Yeah. You could see it in her face. She sort of you could see her mind thinking it over and thinking, why was it said to me? Why? You know, it was that question.

[00:13:20]Why? First time it happens must be absolutely I mean for everybody involved the very first time it happens must be like something shattering.

[00:13:30]>> Yes. Yes.

[00:13:31]>> Never knew it existed until that moment.

[00:13:33]Your your your granddaughter probably never knew that racism even was a thing.

[00:13:37]Never knew that her skin color was an issue. And then suddenly it is and it will be for the rest of her life.

[00:13:43]>> She even questioned it with me because I'm white. She said >> but you're a different color from me.

[00:13:50]to, >> you know, so it really had a profound effect on her.

[00:13:54]>> Well, thank God she's got so much love in her life, Lynn, for from from you and and everybody else, cuz without that, these things become even bigger problems and even even harder to deal with.

[00:14:05]>> I'm sorry. That's that's really I don't know why. I mean, both of those stories probably cuz six and seven, they're the ages that uh it just seemed, you know, I don't know, it wouldn't be better in any way if they were 15, but it's just the idea of I think it's the idea of innocence being taken away, isn't it? I don't like Muslims. I don't want to play with a brown person. It's it's the innocence that's being taken away there by another child who's had their innocence taken away actually by their parents.

[00:14:35]>> Yes. cuz I think you know nowadays we've got like you say so much media TV um going on that the kids we're unaware that the kids are when they're young soaking it up >> the message they're getting is that it's okay you know you've got a woman in parliament who says she doesn't like seeing brown faces and black faces on the television. Sarah Poachin is her name. So why on earth would someone think that there was anything wrong with telling a a little girl with a brown face in their classroom that she didn't want to play with her? I don't like playing with people with brown faces, says a six-year-old girl. I don't like seeing brown faces on the television, says an actual member of parliament. And look at who is queuing up to defend these people. It's not just the the absolute um far right. It's an awful lot of people who spent years pretending not to be queuing up to defend them. Honest Bob Genrich and the rest of them. Absolutely extraordinary the speed with which this is happening. And if you don't believe what I'm saying about the adults, have a look at what the children are doing.

[00:15:32]70,000 of them suspended for racist abuse. Well, 60 odd I think for racist abuse, but horrible numbers also for for disabilist and homophobic because you never get one without the other. You don't need to be Martin Neima to know that that they come for one group first and and then when that's over and done with, they come for another