Grandiosity and inferiority, same stick. Nonduality explorations Sailor Bob's style. 17 May 2026

Added: 2026-05-17

[00:00:09]to Facebook as well.

[00:00:18]>> Yeah.

[00:00:21]>> And Okay, welcome everyone.

[00:00:32]>> We are back to the group investigation.

[00:00:37]Anyone would like to give us a spiel?

[00:00:39]Start us off.

[00:00:42]Dina, >> no. Nope.

[00:00:44]>> No. [laughter] [gasps] >> Okay. So, the honors are mine. Like it or not?

[00:00:57]We had a little adventure a couple of few days ago on the on on our Zoom group where we had a visitor. Oopsie.

[00:01:06]Ouch.

[00:01:09]Intervention.

[00:01:12][laughter] Uh we had a visitor who actually came to the meeting to express his disappointment that Bob lost his wits at the end of his life. He got weaker. his pointing wasn't that sharp and he wasn't clear enough to see that he should have handed over to him and not to me [snorts] and Tanya stood up for it and then pulled it out into the picture. And after the meeting, four different people reached out to me expressing the love and gratitude towards Tanya being the, you know, like showing up as love fighting spirit. No, we're not going to be letting anybody spit on Bob. He's dead. Hello. you know, just a little bit of dignity. Obviously, what Bob was trying to do for the 20 years of their friendship didn't work. He could not actually uh see the pointing where it was uh leading. So, the the loyalty towards Bob wasn't um understandably wasn't there. There was another people actually bringing up some more comments also loyal to the bully rather than to Bob. And even after, you know, like a month or two after Bob's passing, I was getting harassment messages and even people coming home and shouting down, "No, it shouldn't be you. It should be me or it [snorts] should be him." Uh so that's a really good start um to bring the introduction to nonuality and focus on those really subtle uh nittygritty I nittygritty little um ways in which the identity reestablishes itself.

[00:03:00]But I don't know if Peter is with us on Zoom and we have Ross here, Joe, Anthony, Ben and Dean and whoever is with us online. Welcome.

[00:03:16]So the basic predicament you are already that the you know that you are you are life essence and that includes everyone that includes people who still believe their identities who still believe they are advita police or inquisitors or or a great correctors because you know there is nothing right. Mr. that I was stupid, everything is wrong and I am on the mission to fix it and correct it and alter it and modify and include the comparison and judgment and preference and partiality.

[00:03:55]>> [snorts] >> So those people who believe that I am enlightened and you are not uh because I had an experience like 20 years ago at some moment I've experienced something a light or whatever I've experienced that proves that I am enlightened.

[00:04:15]Now this is this is where the rubber meets the road.

[00:04:20]Who has experienced what? Who is there to know how this moment should look like? Who is there to believe that things should be different than they are? This is where the investigation starts. This is not where it ends. This is where it starts. Yes, you are already the life essence. Yes, you already are the existence. And the clarity of that existence that is beating your heart, that is speaking through your mouth, that is hearing through your ears, that is seeing and is projecting. If you are miserable, you project misery. If you're happy, you spread happiness. That clarity, that life essence fueling through the macpie, it brings a song.

[00:05:06]Through the dog, it brings the barking.

[00:05:08]Through the cat is pairing and meowing.

[00:05:10]through the human being who is inherently um programmed by its environment uh to be anxious or fearful or doubting or bullying. That is how it expresses.

[00:05:24]It is never anyone there. It is never anyone there who questions Bob who is loyal to the to the one who questions uh who believes they are right in what they say and what they see. There's still nobody there. But the perception and the experience is that of psychological suffering.

[00:05:49]I am enlightened. I got it. You don't.

[00:05:53]You don't. You don't. You shouldn't be here. What is it? Can you imagine clearer example of separation?

[00:06:04]Where is the inclusiveness?

[00:06:06]If I am wiser or better than you, if I know something better than you, shoot me now. That's separation. That's pain.

[00:06:17]That's suffering. That is precisely what is not necessary.

[00:06:24]There is a possibility like Buddha said in his first four noble truths. There is a way out of that delusion of grandeur.

[00:06:35]There is a way out.

[00:06:37]Just sit back. And this is what Tanya beautifully answer to the to to the man.

[00:06:43]And there was quite a few of those guys over the years coming and pointing down, pointing the fingers. A lot of people stopped showing up on the meetings because they didn't want to be exposed that the inquisitor believes you know ego is real. I will expose it.

[00:07:01]Oh poor projector. Yes, his ego is obviously believed into existence. Still not real.

[00:07:09]But if you believe if you believe the earth is flat, that's what you experience. If you believe the world is against you, the government is gonna And by the way, he's also subscribing to a lot of those types of conspiracies too.

[00:07:24]So if you believe those things, [ __ ] you live in fear. That's the truth for you.

[00:07:31]But now, and this is just a pointer, mind is a tool.

[00:07:39]You don't have to imagine a persona slaving to every thought arising showing up in your mind. If the thought comes up in your mind, oh this is wrong. Mr. Gadata says there is nothing wrong but in my eyes everything is wrong and I am right. He was delusional.

[00:08:00]If that thought shows up, there is an invitation to just pause, be the space, allow that thought emerge and see it for what it is. In that gap, in that spaciousness, the possibility of not bluntly believing that thought, not fanatically slaving to it opens up.

[00:08:31]You are the space. You are the cognizing emptiness. The thought is just an expression. It's just a vibration.

[00:08:40]And that thought is also included. This is all about the include inclusivity complete inclusivity. But you see the form for what it is. It's a form is an appearance. And what you are is the presence ever fresh presence awareness justice nothing else not that thought not that identity not that mission that you have in life. And I'll say that, you know, even those missions, I will correct it.

[00:09:15]I will fix it. I will get burn those witches. He actually called her a witch.

[00:09:20]He called her a fairy on the stick.

[00:09:22]>> Compliment.

[00:09:24]What a joke.

[00:09:25]>> And and and a beautiful.

[00:09:30]>> Yeah. A stupid cow. Yeah.

[00:09:34]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was really sweet.

[00:09:36]That was really fun. That was a good laugh.

[00:09:39]>> Fantastic. Good laugh. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:09:41]>> But it is also an amazing amazing demonstration of where you can sleep off the razor's edge to investigate that subtlety of the delusion of grandeur. I know and you don't. I know how you should be. I know how things should be and you don't. That lack of humility, that lack of realization that wow this is just too complex, too mysterious. The way the life brings the energy moves and change.

[00:10:19]Ah this is this calls for the wow. It calls for stopping the mind.

[00:10:27]>> You sorry.

[00:10:29]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:10:32]So it it it doesn't really it doesn't have to cause psychological suffering.

[00:10:38]It doesn't have to cause the turmoil. It doesn't have to bring up the mission of you know like I will fix it and it's beautiful. This this is really this is really sweet to have that because it's love behind every action is always love.

[00:10:57]So there is love who brings those bullies 20 plus years older to just try and fight those witches. You know the fear of women, the misogyny, everything in it and like I won't surrender. You're not surrendering to anyone but life itself. And the longer you stand your ground and try to expose egos, the more you assert the belief that the ego is real. It is not. But but the motivation is always love. The love that is filtered through the belief, you know, like the love that the pedophile feels when it grabs the child and it says this child is from a broken family. They always target those type of kids >> and I will give them love.

[00:11:52]I will be the one who sponsor it. And the poor kid is confused. Now it hurts but it gives and provides. This type of misguided love filtered through the idea that hasn't been investigated becomes the bullying, the the fight, the defending some sort of a crazy ideas that life is wrong, God is wrong, Bob was stupid or he lost it or all those ideas, thoughts that haven't been investigated that are blatantly, blindly believed.

[00:12:29]lived and followed slaved to their life essence because there was no possation.

[00:12:36]There was no insight. There is no space.

[00:12:41]The thought arises is in my head. It is true. That's it. The thought comes, she is a witch. I'll destroy her. I'll I'll what I do. I'll liberate the world from from a witch. I'll burn her at stake.

[00:12:56]I'm the great inquisitor. I'll do it.

[00:13:00]That thought we've seen in 16th 17th centuries that thought unquestioned.

[00:13:07]This the situation of the human condition is still the same.

[00:13:15]This this is still the case. The unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason. Bob would call it a belief. Suddenly the thought appears.

[00:13:27]There is no insight. There is no gap.

[00:13:31]There is no possation. There is just leaving in the head. There is no moment when you just [sighs] drop it to the heart.

[00:13:45]What's wrong with right now if I don't think about it? [gasps] Wow. This moment is alive.

[00:13:54]This moment is precious.

[00:13:57]Doesn't matter what the idea about how things should look. Doesn't matter about my ideas or judgments about other people, things, places.

[00:14:07]This moment right now is where the reality is is the living reality. And this is the difference. I had this conversation also.

[00:14:18]Isn't the nonduality just another belief system?

[00:14:23]Yes, for some people it is. It's another religion and they become the priests of that religion and they become the defenders of that religion. They want to preserve the cleanness of that religion and they the great inquisition of that religion of that belief system.

[00:14:44]But what nonduality points to nonuality is a word. It's is a line of sounds. It's is just a concept.

[00:14:52]But what it points to, what's behind that concept?

[00:14:58]That's the question. It is not about adopting. Oh yeah, you know, I heard one pointer. I heard the pointer. Watch the mind. See how it works. And I will teach you all. I won't apply it myself. Why would I? I already got it. I can repeat it. Now, that's not the living reality behind the pointer.

[00:15:20]Let the pointer sink in and unfold. Show you the way.

[00:15:27]Watch the mind. What you going to find?

[00:15:30]What is that point going to show you?

[00:15:32]How does it really function?

[00:15:36]Because it may tell you, oh yeah, this guy is wrong. There's no one there. It's just your projection.

[00:15:44]Yes, it appears as other. It appears as a guy. It appears as the guy with negative motivation but this is just the mind giving the meaning and the story. If you see that you are in the in the world of all wow I don't know what it is. I don't know what it means. I don't know why it unfolds and appears the way it does.

[00:16:11]Whatever I need to know in the moment will be revealed.

[00:16:17]This moment as it shows up right now is complete.

[00:16:22]Is complete. Is beautiful. Is even if there is some discomfort without labeling without segregating and knowing it there is cushion.

[00:16:34]Yeah.

[00:16:42]And this is what is what is behind that pointer to non-duality realization that that Nisarata would summarize as there is nothing wrong once you see and again there is no one to see but once the delusion has been exposed the delusion of grandeur I saw it I understand it I know it you don't delusion of separation When this one is exposed as just the mechanical working of the mind and there is no one left to be superior or inferior and there is no one else to be separate to be right or to be wrong.

[00:17:28]So there is no one else, no one left to seek, to find, to teach, to correct, to alter, to burn the witch. There is no one left. There is just life moving.

[00:17:46]And there is a consciousness or noticing of it. And once that noticing is clear, the likelihood of spreading misery drops exponentially.

[00:17:59]It drops. If it doesn't, if there is still sadness, if there is still misery in the system, well, perhaps the investigation should continue.

[00:18:13]Who is it? Who is there who is right?

[00:18:17]Who is there who believes that conspiracy or that idea?

[00:18:22]Is there a subtle sense of identity creeping into that picture?

[00:18:29]Look at the pattern. Look at the mind exposure of that subtlety.

[00:18:35]It brings the freedom greater and greater.

[00:18:40]And that's what Bob was saying up until his last breath. It never stop. It never stopped deepening in the way of exposing more and more subtle patterns without being enslaved by them without identifying with the pattern as the pattern. You see the mechanical working of the mind of the the mechanisms of identity, the mechanisms of self-preservation, even the mechanisms of that misguided love that brings more suffering to oneself and to everyone else. spreading misery, spreading fear, spreading uh sadness, even that is just a pattern. It can be recognized and once it is recognized is neither good nor bad. It's just a pattern. It isn't done by anyone. Is just a conditioned machine and the body and the energy of life filtered through it like the wind blowing through the flute.

[00:19:58]But when the inside is there, when the habit of identifying with every thought is broken, there is a simming choice appearing also.

[00:20:13]Is that mechanical pattern going to be perpetuated when it is exposed and seen in light?

[00:20:22]Suddenly that light of consciousness showing that pattern takes away the fuel takes away the energy of that pattern.

[00:20:37]So suddenly the seeming choice is there.

[00:20:41]Am I still going to go and rape those kids if now I realize that this way of showing love or experiencing love is actually causing harm to myself and the reflection of myself out there.

[00:20:59]So this is where where it the invitation comes.

[00:21:05]Let that light, that clarity through that pause when the pattern arises rather than seeing how the identity flows. This is my thought. It must be true.

[00:21:21]Just a gap. Drop from the head to the heart and wait and wonder and see whether the compulsion to follow that thought is still present or maybe it is not. Maybe it softens.

[00:21:42]whether the compulsion of making it to my identity softens a little bit and then you can see how the life will still function just the way you know the animals function just the way the AI functions they take the role yes now you are my assistant and you play this role and do this for me but there is a freedom from sweeping between switching, dancing between those roles, knowing that neither of them is who I am. It's just the energy moving between them and I am the presence seeing the movement of attention.

[00:22:29]I'm not trapped by it. It's not that this is my schizophrenic identity. I'm this, I'm that, I'm that. Oh yeah, this is who I am. No, who I am is beyond comprehension, beyond definition, beyond mind, beyond words.

[00:22:49]You don't, you can't know who you are.

[00:22:53]Then knowing that you are is enough.

[00:22:58]If you think you know who you are, if you think you know who your what your role is, what your mission is, if you feel identified with your mission, just pause, look again, give yourself that gift of respite from believing the thinking.

[00:23:22]Just [sighs] relax a little bit.

[00:23:29]The truth of what you are is spaceelike.

[00:23:34]Space doesn't need to alter, modify, or correct anything at all. The impulse to act comes from space. And that impulse to act will act itself out.

[00:23:50]But if it gets a little bit of space and a little bit of light of consciousness, if that pattern is seen, it's not running you as mechanically as it does.

[00:24:05]There is a freedom.

[00:24:08]Freedom from believing unconditionally any rubbish that has been preconditioned in your body mind machine.

[00:24:16]anything that has been installed in that computer.

[00:24:21]There is a freedom to wait and wonder, to relax, to appreciate, to see the truth underneath.

[00:24:34]And then you don't need to expose anyone. There isn't anyone there. You don't need to go on the crusade against the egos or witches. There is no one there. It's just your projections.

[00:24:47]It's the same one life singing as a bird, meowing as a cat.

[00:24:54]And no one is excluded. Those poor pedophiles are not excluded.

[00:25:00]But there could be potentially and that's what the nonduality is is meant to inspire, not to direct, not to teach, not to instruct.

[00:25:15]There's no script, but just inspire.

[00:25:23]And Bob would say, "Just pause.

[00:25:28]Look at that machine.

[00:25:30]See the magic trick. See how it works.

[00:25:33]See how the thought comes and covers up the mystery of reality and gives you everything. Gives you a role. Gives you a meaning. Gives you a function.

[00:25:44]And then if there is no gap to actually expose it to see it for what it is the play the pattern the dream straight away there comes the fanaticism and the actor forgets it is just a play.

[00:26:05]It is just a ride and and and it becomes dangerous and it spreads misery and it goes around and rapes and burns and and the intention is still just love.

[00:26:22]There is someone in the zoom.

[00:26:27]Yes. And we have few more people coming up in Zoom. So uh welcome everyone. We have uh six seven of us now and I wonder I think it's enough for the introduction. I wonder if we would like to actually just open up a discussion.

[00:26:45]Does it actually bring anything for you guys or or you guys on Zoom or anyone who is with us online or or is it maybe confronting or is it maybe scary or is it maybe maybe are there any questions or maybe direct experience? How do you have a moment of noticing how you get locked in that persistent of identity?

[00:27:10]Very often that would be an identity of a seeker or worse identity of I got it. I'm enlightened.

[00:27:20]No identity is it.

[00:27:23]The humble realization that there is no one anywhere. There is no one here. There is no one there.

[00:27:32]There is just outpouring life.

[00:27:38]See how if you have any insight or any question, if you can notice that sense of roll coming and grabbing you and making you really just kidnapping completely.

[00:27:57]That is just a such a beautiful and I and I thank the bully boys uh for for a beautiful inspiration and just as Tanya said it's not too late you you guys keep looking there is a freedom from psychological suffering and you are absolutely included and at any point you are included in that field of of loving life and and the preciousness that comes through you is is is appreciated And yeah, bring it all on anyone.

[00:28:33]>> Something happened.

[00:28:35]>> Yeah.

[00:28:39]Uh I was just on a lunch break and um uh long story short, it I was waiting in this um for a soule >> and in a busy arcade and there's all sorts of sounds and echoes going on.

[00:29:04]people rushing here and there, people appearing, disappearing, and uh the young girl in the shop said, "Well, you can sit out there outside." So, there was a chair outside in the middle of this busy arcade.

[00:29:28]And uh there were lots of things that uh attracted one's attention but at the same time there there was an a awareness that right that that that sound is taking your attention and but you had the choice to go with it or not.

[00:29:53]And the more that was let go. The more space there was in the in the um cave, all the sounds and talking wasn't recognized by just sounds, people talking, laughing, carrying on, walking hurriedly through.

[00:30:24]Um but it was also noticed there was no thinking going on and there was a a stillness that seemed to be relaxing just relaxing. There was plenty of things to distract, but it was sort of subsumed by the the stillness and quietness of the and the spaciousness of the that's there if you stop from being making objects of things.

[00:31:10]So the objects gradually disappeared.

[00:31:13]They were just merging into different sounds and shapes and and there was a great sense of stability, nothing to get caught up in.

[00:31:30]And that that was very very refreshing uh very natural but it wasn't a it was different from the usual subject object perception of dualistic everyday activity.

[00:31:57]There is just a a glimpse of what happens when the thought stops.

[00:32:08]Um the just acceptance of whatever comes up.

[00:32:19]Whatever comes up, it's all the same suchness. It's all the same.

[00:32:29]Uh the everything is equal. There's an equality of everything.

[00:32:40]And uh there's awareness of well this is this is quite different quite different from normal perception and getting caught up in everything.

[00:32:51]um making judgments and and the uh there wasn't any sense of entity there.

[00:33:04]It was just a one one sort of merging changing um variety of sounds and phenomena.

[00:33:20]Can you actually include the sound of the heater right now and the sound of the other uh sounds and actually recognize that the same is the is the truth here for now for this moment now for you. Can you can you see this is the same now?

[00:33:42]It's beautiful what you're describing.

[00:33:44]But now it's the same.

[00:33:48]Hear the heater.

[00:33:50]>> Yeah.

[00:33:50]>> Yeah. Just the background sounds and and there is no need to, you know, put yourself in the center and relate.

[00:34:02]It is just the unfolding the happening.

[00:34:05]>> Yeah. Beautiful, isn't it?

[00:34:08]>> Yeah.

[00:34:12]Um, do you think that based on the the color of our personalities and the lifing that goes on, do you think that we we we tend to be just based on who we are as an individual within the context of the dream that does it seem that we're kind or it kind of seems that way. It's like that there are more electrical charges that grabs my attention for a longer period of time than others. Kind of like the heater. The heater is happening right now. But there are certain things that just resonate with me more >> and I'm seeing it >> and there's a physical as I was talking about earlier you know that the the the physical experience from it from the charge are is that describing the charge in itself self. Is that is that what we're saying? Like if you have a physical experience that that's the charge, >> but it does seem that um >> it's um there's certain qualities of it that that that keep reoccurring in the experience of lifing.

[00:35:47]So, and even though I'm seeing it, it does seem like the character is almost addicted to, you know what I'm saying? Is kind of addicted to those uh those charges, whatever they may be.

[00:36:08]>> But maybe there is no character. Maybe there's just a habit in the system.

[00:36:14]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think there isn't even any persona that is it's just like you know the nervous system gets and if you look at the traumatized dog uh they will also respond to every slightest sound like this >> because there is certain you know like every every single machine is tuned individually is slightly different it's unique it's like a snowflake >> so it may have certain characteristics that it responds more like you know some and I was this type of a kid hyper hyper sensitive you know any sound any temperature change any noise any crowd it would just freak the whole nervous system out so some of the some of the machines are tuned this way and there's no need even to compare them although in some cases even just putting a label brings the relaxation oh okay I'm not guilty that's just how it functions But without the label, just noticing that you're not doing any of it. The thought is arising. The nervous system is responding straight away with the charge. Having just that even that capacity to see that loop arising, responding straight away, seeing that charge, you're already a thousand miles ahead of those who just bllightly react like, you know, like a bull on the red blanket.

[00:37:46]>> Yeah.

[00:37:49]>> Was kind of like Ross was talking about the same thing really is um what Out of all the experiences, what what what shows up is the mind actually thinking about it?

[00:38:05]>> Yeah. are obsessing about it or you know why is it that the air conditioner is of of little importance? But then anyway, >> the closest thing that comes closest thing that comes to mind is some vague memory of what it was like as a very young child.

[00:38:37]and uh just making any sort of sense out of this booming buzzing confusion. I think some philosopher said where everything merges and it's it's not nothing's identifiable.

[00:39:08]that kind of state you might go through in coming out of a dream or going into a dream where nothing is really clear and you sort of just dissolve into that. It's that sort of sense, but it wasn't uh wasn't a persona.

[00:39:31]There's no sign.

[00:39:43]So it's sort of the the opposite of our everyday dualistic perception.

[00:39:51]It's just a oneness and acceptance of everything uh as it as it is.

[00:40:03]Yeah, thoughts seem to promise so much, don't they? They make every It's every thought is like a Well, it's often it's like a promise.

[00:40:15]If you follow me, I'll show you the light. If you follow me, if you if you keep following this thought, you'll get to the end and you'll know the answer.

[00:40:26]But they never it's like a fruitless tree.

[00:40:31]It's like the roots the thoughts are like the roots ever branching out. You know, follow me, follow me, follow me.

[00:40:38]The fruit never never the tree never fruits. It never the answer never comes.

[00:40:44]The certainty never never happens.

[00:40:52]I just if I just keep follow I'll get it. I'll get it. I'll get it.

[00:40:57][laughter] That's the That's the rabbit hole. You never work it out with the mind, the so-called mind. The thoughts promise so much that they never deliver.

[00:41:09]They're empty.

[00:41:15]Can you just exactly what Ross said?

[00:41:17]Well, just do you have to understand it? Do you have to have a concept for everything?

[00:41:28]Which which concepts are you going to hold on to and which ones you going to get rid of?

[00:41:33]How you going to figure it out? This is a certified concept. This is not a certified concept.

[00:41:40]Just see there is no control just happening.

[00:41:51]It won't.

[00:41:54]The answer is not to be found in so-called mind which is just a shorthand way of describing those phenomena that just seem to appear fle and fly back out again. And it's you describe it as what what energizes or keeps those thoughts hanging around or not the same thought just building is the attention.

[00:42:22]The love that you show those empty promises.

[00:42:35]If that love was just unconditional in a way, just is as it is. And recognition that there's no individual person, mini me, central controller, officiator, lever puller, button presser making stuff happen.

[00:43:05]Not even the so-called your private thoughts. You're not making that happen either.

[00:43:15]And just we've talked about this before.

[00:43:17]You couldn't give a hoot about the so-called uh thought phenomena of the person sitting next to you.

[00:43:26]They're [clears throat] not mine.

[00:43:28]I'm not concerned about that person.

[00:43:30]They just don't affect me at all. Guess what? These aren't yours either.

[00:43:40]But they'll make all there might be all sorts of promises about what they'll the the pleasure that awaits following this giving this thought attention or whatever. See that there there is they're empty.

[00:43:58]They're nothing. They have no power.

[00:44:03]No intrinsic power. The only power they have is the attention directed at them. The love given them.

[00:44:17]See that they are phenomena not real. And just as Ross was describing as everything as this river seems to flow seems like there's a flowing there's the impression of a flowing of a a time of an on of a of a of a a line a linear progression of things but it's really just always just now and it and this stillness there amid the arcade bustling with people everywhere and sounds and noises.

[00:44:56]Stillness always here. Always here and always still resting.

[00:45:10]>> Yeah.

[00:45:12]I think the the attraction of it was that it didn't make it didn't make uh sense. didn't didn't have to make sense. It was just in a in a way nonsensical but very had a sense of well this is this is home.

[00:45:38]let go of all the things that distract us >> and there's this well that's sort of nana in a way and then objecting to that you get the samsara suddenly back in the rat race and there's back to their likes and dislikes and a dualistic way of um seeing things, perceiving.

[00:46:28]And that's what it boils down to. You know if there is identity any identity even the the delusion of grandeur even if the identity is identity is I'm the greatest I'm the smartest I'm the enlightened one still separation there still limitation there still suffering no identity no suffering subtle identity subtle suffering strong identity strong suffering but as you say there's no need to believe any assertion any definition of what I am what it means what is my mission what I need to do no need if you watch the mind and you see that those are just mental constructs they don't have any substance they don't matter they don't mean anything that clear seeing is the freedom from identity. It's like thought like Tanya says the invitations for a ride. Come follow me. Just I'm I'm put me on, you know, like a costume. Put me on. Oh, I'm a mother now or I'm a lover now or I'm the fighter or I'm this or I'm just I just have a right. Nothing wrong. This is life dancing its dance.

[00:47:53]But if there is no clarity that this is just a dance, this is just a performance, this is just a dream, if there is a fanatical belief and identity identifying with that, well, there is suffering and it doesn't have to be there. There's nothing wrong playing any role. There is nothing wrong with absolutely anything.

[00:48:18]It's just the energy of belief giving it credibility and saying yes this is I this is who I am what I am subtly brings suffering and the and the man who actually challenged us on zoom obviously suffering and trying to introduce that suffering and says people suffer everybody suffer immensely projecting it also outside that they are real people with real egos and real pain and real suffering just like like like his own case.

[00:48:55]How loving, how beautiful, how warm, how compassionate, nothing but bow down to life appearing as that role. But that role and that suffering is due to the energy of belief.

[00:49:12]Noticing how that energy of belief embodies that thought. Yes, the world is full of people separate suffering. I believe it. This is true. Your wish is my command. That's that's exactly the case.

[00:49:29]And it doesn't have to be this way. If you question, you look behind, you realize, [sighs and gasps] wow, this is just an incredible dream.

[00:49:42]What an incredible show. What an incredible play.

[00:49:46]and you speak with those who are seemingly suffering and show them the same thing. Don't make their suffering any more real than it already appears to be. That's not help.

[00:50:02]That's cruelty.

[00:50:06]Bring it into the surface. See, when you don't think it, when you don't construct it, when you don't believe it, where is it? Oh wow. Wow. It's not there. Oh my god. If I have a minute, if I can have a moment without that psychological suffering when I pause the thought, when I ask myself what's wrong with right now, if I don't think about it, if that's possible, it is possible. Full stop. Doesn't have to be for a minute. Doesn't have to be for a second.

[00:50:45]Sometimes it the habit of believing anything that arises have to be recognized again and again. Keep seeing that there is no thing that cease. Don't fool yourself believing that ah 20 years ago I had a glimpse of it and now I'm enlightened.

[00:51:05]Why do I still suffer? Maybe all that nonuality is [ __ ] Maybe you still have to suffer. Who have seen that?

[00:51:15]Who has to suffer?

[00:51:18]Look again moment to moment. There is only this moment right now. If right now you can see that there is no thought, then there's no problem. If there is no belief in anything needing to be any different. Even if you're hanging on the cross, even if you have stomach ache, if there is no thought that anything should be different than it is, what's wrong?

[00:51:49]No preference, no partiality, no comparison.

[00:51:54]Preference arises. Is it mine?

[00:51:58]If there is no sense of identity, nope. Can it touch me?

[00:52:05]There is no sense of identity, preferences, comparisons, judgments, partiality. They arise in space.

[00:52:14]Do they have to pull out all the attention and create the identity of themselves?

[00:52:23]If the habit is really strong, that's what's going to happen. But if there is a resonation, if there is that free attention, that even base level, basic level of of recognition, resonation of that free consciousness, that pattern can be recognized from the space-like awareness.

[00:52:48]And if that posation can be there for a second and you don't disappear, you don't stop existing. Suffering pauses, identity pauses.

[00:53:00]You are nothing for that moment. Nothing tangible, nothing definable.

[00:53:10]If that's possible, even for the split second of asking a question, what's wrong with right now?

[00:53:18]That is possible. Full stop. There is a way of psychological suffering. If you see what it is, who is it happening to?

[00:53:27]Is there a me that suffers or is just a charged mental construct arising in consciousness, cognized in consciousness, seen in consciousness as what it is. Charged pattern happening to no one. Not personal, not mine.

[00:53:49]Then even the anger, even the frustration, even the sadness, if you insist on labeling it, if it comes up with the label, can just be wow.

[00:54:04]And that seemingly unpleasant sensations and emotions seemingly because you take the label off and they just buzzing energy.

[00:54:17]They don't cause suffering anymore because there is no one, no identity saying I want this, I don't want this.

[00:54:25]It should be like that. It shouldn't be like that.

[00:54:29]Everything's welcome. Everything's included.

[00:54:33]This is This is your favorite quote.

[00:54:35]Welcome in the comment. No.

[00:54:37]>> Yeah.

[00:54:37]>> Read a comment.

[00:54:39]>> Read a comment. Oh, all right. Oh, Lindsay.

[00:54:43]>> Oh, hi, Lindsay. Oh, >> okay. Uh, Peter, is it?

[00:54:48]>> Yeah. Can you hear me? Okay.

[00:54:50]>> Yeah, we do. We do.

[00:54:51]>> Yeah. What you're saying is so beautiful, Pat. So, so relatable. Um I guess with me sometimes if things do come on really strongly um maybe I give attention to it when I shouldn't. Um but then I I sort of uh what's wrong with right now if you don't think about it was such a good point for me. But then there almost seems to be like uh a lag time just this machine still sort of has the intense feelings. everything is very very even though I've sort of pulled back and relaxed into okay yeah there's nothing wrong with right now but everything is still very strong and happening is that sort of normal eventually I sort of look back and wow that was pretty intense there but you know I'm just observing it all but yeah sometimes I wonder if the body is going to sort of catch up quickly and sort of I don't know I sort of want a piece of mind or something you know but um you recognizing it and uh just seeing for what it is. It's uh it's a key, but then yeah, it just sometimes seems to take too much time.

[00:55:58]>> Yeah. Yeah. It see Bob says this is a really really good analogy. He says that you know the guy coming out in the dark goes to his basement steps on the wet rope and shivers goes straight away and he panics and his heart stops. Oh [ __ ] I stepped on the serpent. It's going to kill me now. The other guy comes and shine the torch on it. Oh, this is just a just a wet rope. There's no danger here. And the guy is just [sighs and gasps] But the trembling stays in the body for good. It might depends on the nervous system. Maybe few minutes. in maybe an hour because of the you know the whole floating of the of the chemicals in the whole system. It may may shake you and depends on the on the particulars of the conditioning of the nervous system of of the of the physical structure of the of the 10,000 things different sensitivity.

[00:57:04]It may take a while and it is perfect.

[00:57:08]It all happens in its own perfect timing. Sometimes it goes really really slow so you can see it really really well.

[00:57:18]When things happen very very quickly they may be missed.

[00:57:23]>> Enjoy it.

[00:57:24]>> Yeah. Enjoy it.

[00:57:25]>> Enjoy it. Enjoy it. Enjoy it. there's why you know so there is a concept about um or wishing for I wish this was different you know I wish that uh you know I as soon as I see through it then the physical experiencing of it will drop should drop faster sooner better if I was better will this change I want this to change see that see through that and when a physical sensation comes in the body seem see their thought come up to label it >> as as as uh anxiety or uh some kind of pain or something to be feared or blah blah instead of and see see that see through it and Then have a look what is actually occurring.

[00:58:28]>> You can be, you know, oh, it's just a it's just a boy. It's just what it is >> without a label. It's just what it is.

[00:58:42]Not right, not wrong, not hot, not cold, bad, good.

[00:58:49]And >> there's no need for it to go.

[00:58:51]>> No.

[00:58:54]It's exactly what you said.

[00:58:57]>> Nothing if you know what's wrong if you're not having a thought about it.

[00:59:03]Applies to that too. Everything.

[00:59:06]>> Yes.

[00:59:07]Good.

[00:59:08]>> The thought is the thought seems to come and and gives you a promise again. You know, oh you know when you get this better or this this might go or this should go. If it's not going there's something wrong.

[00:59:20]I see through that >> that I'm thinking it shouldn't be this way.

[00:59:26]>> Yeah. Yeah. Wishing of becoming different than it is >> rather than well here it is. So so it is >> and and that's the mind's function. You know, if you see that that beautiful navigational system, that navigational aid that is supposed to keep the body alive and deliver pleasure and it does its job. It says, "Oh, look, you know, we need more pleasure. We need peace of mind. Peace of mind. What a pleasure.

[01:00:02]Unconditional love, cosmic union. Woo!

[01:00:04]Enlightenment. Pleasure. Pleasure." So, it keeps as it has been designed. It keeps chasing it.

[01:00:12]See that pattern of wanting more pleasure, wanting more peace, not this, not this, not just now, not as it is.

[01:00:22]More peace, more pleasure as just another way that mind comes and invites you for the ride and blow with a kiss.

[01:00:31]Sweet is love. It's love of being showing up through the mind. You know, if you go to the heart, it doesn't have words. It is just the sense of all. But if you take it to the mind, it will be translating as I want more pleasure. I want more safety. I want more connection. I want more this. Oh, more more because I love. That's you know how I translate the loving into the tasks into the uh altering, modifying, correcting, changing, uh rearranging.

[01:01:04]That's that's what the love of being translate through the mind shows up as it's seeing through it and and just taking all the labels and movement of energy.

[01:01:18]It is perfect as it appears. It doesn't have to go faster.

[01:01:24]It doesn't have to erh see I' I've seen over the nearly a decade Bob getting worked up a few times. He's got, oh my gosh, you know, I I wrote it in the biography book. He's been betrayed by almost everyone in his life.

[01:01:43]Uh, and the way he took it, of course, there was a moment of like disappointment. If it wasn't, we would have to kind of question his his heart, his capacity to love.

[01:02:00]But that moment was met without the label as the movement of energy. Wow.

[01:02:06]Wow. That's interesting. That's fascinating. That's another thing appearing as as that. Do I want it to go? No. There's no one there having any preference for anything to be any different. If it appears as a heartache, wow, that's beautiful. Let it be there until it has been seen completely, received, included, seen for what it is. Pure energy with no labels, no stories, no meanings, no relating to the me, no poor me attached to it. Just pure phenomena on the screen and then it is free to stay, free to go.

[01:02:52]If it wants to hang in, welcome. If it if it dissipates.

[01:02:57]>> Yeah.

[01:02:58]>> Fine.

[01:02:59]>> Yeah. Be with me. It might be sort of part partly old habits and things too.

[01:03:04]Maybe as a weaken a bit uh um it'll sort of just happen more naturally and more easily. It almost seems like it's a test of patience sometime. But I think a a lot of it is just allowing it to to change.

[01:03:17]>> It is it is an old habit. But don't wait for it to change because waiting is another trick of the mind.

[01:03:26]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[01:03:27]>> Even being patient and waiting is the subtle is a subtle belief that no as it is right now is no good.

[01:03:36]>> When I wait long enough, it will be easier.

[01:03:41]>> It's just as it is right now. This is it. This is the pure perfection.

[01:03:48]Even if the headache or tooth ache lasts for a week, even if the cancer pain gets you 200 milligrams of the morphine every day, >> you are that now. You are that now. No need to no waiting, [laughter] >> becoming.

[01:04:11]That's it. This is it.

[01:04:13]>> Yeah.

[01:04:14]>> This is it. This is it. Everything else is a everything else is a concept belief in a thought. This this is it.

[01:04:28]>> No doer.

[01:04:30]>> No doer.

[01:04:32]>> Yeah.

[01:04:32]>> No doer.

[01:04:35]>> Good. That's very helpful. Thank you.

[01:04:37]>> That was and that was beautiful.

[01:04:39]>> Yeah.

[01:04:39]>> Question was really lovely. Thank you.

[01:04:44]I'm gonna include Lindsay. And Lindsay says, "Uh, hello. Loving listening in today." And Lindsay, actually, we were talking about you a couple of days ago with Paula. I don't know if you remember Paula. She was saying, you know, where is that beautiful girl? She comes sometimes. You could also join us on Zoom if it is too far to go or to our Mandala girls. Um, wonderful to to hear from you. Let me see what it is. Hello, loving listening in today. I'm enjoying hearing the many perspectives.

[01:05:16]I would add that even thoughts are part of what is 100%. And are not the problem except when they attach to the primary false belief of a separate identity.

[01:05:30]Beautifully put, Lindsay. Once this is seen, then thoughts become part of the everchanging landscape like everything else. Lovely to hear you all and contribute to the conversation. Love h and Lindsay also brought us a lot of beautiful hearts here and yeah join us on Zoom if it's too far to come. We do miss you and uh wonderful to hear from you and thank you.

[01:06:01]>> Do you know now?

[01:06:03]>> No, thanks. Interesting.

[01:06:06]>> Yeah. [clears throat] >> Um yeah, there's lots that I could sort of talk about, but um yeah, like for me, like everything is um unfulfilling, you know, it's been that way for forever.

[01:06:24]>> And um like I've always just thought I was broken, you know, from day one really.

[01:06:31]And so I've been trying to you know um I've been trying everything [laughter] everything but I came across suppose the concept or it's not a concept but non-duality in probably in my 20s like >> 25 years ago and you know it it hit a chord and and um been so I've been searching ever since but which you know is a fruitless exercise in and of itself and Um yeah, but I can't like I've never even as a teenager I couldn't project any sort of future that would be satisfying for me because it like whether it was money or fame or fortune or whatever it might be. I could just see that it was empty. Yeah. Or it just was only going to be transient. Um so this I suppose this became spirituality became something that I could hang my hat on >> which I I can't anyhow but um yeah so it's just like the mind's always got one more trick up its sleeve.

[01:07:32]I'm just I'm going, you know, I'm just sort of going up and down. I'm I'm just sort of going up and down the one spot in a way because I'm always ultimately just in my head, >> you know, and and when I started coming here just the last couple of months, I realized like even though I'd heard it a thousand times, there's I can't do anything, you know? Yeah. And because I'm always take even if I'm taking that information, I can't do anything. my mind will play with that idea, you know.

[01:08:03]So, I'm just constantly trapped.

[01:08:07]Um, it's hell.

[01:08:09]And then I come here and I get relief momentarily because the message is strong and I and it I feel it and the mind slows down for a period, but I know I'm just going to go back out there today and be, you know, in that world again. Um, and it is I think it is softening and there's more um, similar to Ross' experience with the kebab. Like I'm having those moments as well. So there's some sweet moments, you know, in amongst it all. Um, but ultimately I'm just running on that self-will and it just reinvents itself, you know, in million different ways. And um but life keeps pushing me, you know. It's just always it's it um you know, I really like I look at my whole life and everything I've done, I haven't done any of it. I can see that because none of it's panned out the way I planned.

[01:09:08]And um and my son, like my son's he's 18 now and he's independent and and I think I've used him like a crutch for years.

[01:09:17]like I love him so much and I've poured I'm a single dad so I've poured myself into him and it's sort of been like I guess a not an excuse but a a um like I now that he's sort of independent again I'm left just with me so all this stuff's um back to square one again I guess so um yeah I don't and I don't I mean I don't have questions I guess because Um, I mean, maybe I do, but I mean I remember asking you a few weeks ago, Kat, about is there such a thing as purgatory? And you said, "No, there's not."

[01:09:55]I was hoping you'd say, "Yes, there was." [laughter] >> Believe it.

[01:09:59]>> Yeah. Well, yeah. But then I said, "Well, what about faith?" And you said, "No, that's not relevant either."

[01:10:05]>> So, what So, where does one go? You know, >> the one that wants to go Yeah, who wants to go anywhere? How about staying here? And it was beautiful actually what you described. I don't know if you actually heard yourself. You say, I can see I walk out. I get the relief and I walk out of here and I can see it reinventing itself. It the identity reinviting. That's not you. It is just a mechanical construct. Right now, it causes pain because it's still charged and persistent. But the more you see it, the more it will cause like wow and then woo this is this is cool and and eventually it becomes laughable. It becomes like [ __ ] you know, like show me the thousand ways in which you keep reinvading yourself on autopilot and I'm the present seeing it and you know it's almost becomes like a sort of a play because the identity is some somewhat you know the reference points may be arising in that dream when necessary.

[01:11:15]you know, you speak with a truck driver or you speak with like whatever the uh in a grocery store, then naturally the the preconditioned language model will respond according to the to the necessity of the situation and it all happens of its own. You're not doing any of it, but you can see how it works automatically and you can see >> the brilliance of that of that game. And now as as the habit of taking credit, this is me, this is I, weakens, it becomes like, wow, what a ride. And even when it gets trapped for a little bit and then it relaxes like Peter was saying, you know, that it stays on, but I want I'm waiting till it doesn't hold on for that long. See even that >> and just this moment right now is always unique and precious whether there is a dream identity overlaying it or not. If you relax and pause and [sighs and gasps] breathe out and see what is this unique present moment. The consciousness is never not here. You are never not present.

[01:12:31]And this is a foreground rather than background.

[01:12:36]You know, the mind usually steals the show and she says, "Oh, like Tanya was saying, oh no, just just go with me.

[01:12:41]This this this attention is just scattered and is constantly looking for something." And what you said, you know, the lack of fulfillment that is inherent for the mind because its function is to improve, alter, modify, correct. It can never be satisfied. Bob would bring up the example of millionaire who is so worried about the money and never has enough obsessed obsessed obsessed and getting more and more greedy. Mind is designed to find more. The algorithm that is designed to find more fails if it says that's enough. It can't do it. It is against its design.

[01:13:24]is only the present moment out of the mind back in the heart in the essence of existence where there is nothing wrong for the mind always could be and you know what that exercise that you did this is really brilliant and very relatable and I inspire everyone to just see imagine your best future and you whatever the money whatever the love everything and imagine that it is going to be like this forever ever boring can't it can't be satisfying >> even the most like people who go into the law of attraction and imagine themselves to you know to attract all that stuff it can't be satisfying it is against the nature of that navigational system the only way out is out of the mind is full stop back here to this moment and then see their antics And instead of being threatening, they become funny. They become sweet. You don't change. The habits of the mind don't change. The conditioning doesn't change. Is the presence of that light which make all those dark unconscious processes visible.

[01:14:43]And having those processes visible without the what was it um preferences, partialities and comparison. You don't compare your processes with other people. You don't take them partially and judge them. You just see the wonder of that structure from that space-like awareness without you know mental uh processing. Whatever you feel is unique and precious. If you compare it to other people how they feel it or they feel it shorter or longer or oh this shouldn't be like this or you know Bob wouldn't stay in that fe ah that's more mind that is also beautiful if you see it as a pattern and it's innocent if you see it as a pattern it's just another layer of of computing happening >> but the presence witnessing the computing is free from it and that's you you you are exposed to the miracle of that of existence of explosion of that dream through watching that computation watching what your mind is interpreting doing projecting and wow this is how my predicament has created this is why the level of dissatisfaction is so high this is how it has been constructed is magic.

[01:16:13]>> Well, that's Yeah, I think I'm ex exposing myself to the pain, too.

[01:16:18]>> Yes.

[01:16:19]>> Like, I'm seeing how miserable I really am. [laughter] Like, because I had defenses against that and they're starting to fall apart as well. So, >> yeah.

[01:16:27]>> It's like Jesus, it's I'm a miserable son of a [ __ ] I tell you. [laughter] Which I mean, yeah, but it is like that's been my construction, you know, from day one. So, it's I gravitate towards a negative. So, my thoughts are negatively geared from the get-go, you know. So, >> wow.

[01:16:44]>> Yeah.

[01:16:44]>> But see, you have that humility and honesty and clarity about that. You're not in denial of your, you know, like grumpiness or misery. You see that, you bring it to the surface. And as you see it, you take the label off. You see how it comes into existence. It becomes like, wow.

[01:17:06]You see how the suffering is created you know like you want to be anxious take future. Wow. This is how simple that dream gets created through an act of just identifying with the arising thinking and you can see thousand ways in which that suffering that dream of misery is constructed. What an insight.

[01:17:32]Isn't it fascinating?

[01:17:34]goodness with that insight, you know, like the more you see the the more naturally because it's revelatory, isn't it? A revelation to see how you make you don't do it, but how your own mind makes you miserable by adopting those ideas, by believing those ideas, by focusing, strengthening them, by putting that oil on the fire so it burns brighter.

[01:18:03]What a revelation to be able to just witness that whole process. Don't have to fix it, alter, modify it, correct it, change it, be curious about it. It will show you even more. It will reveal itself even more.

[01:18:19]And then wow, then you can be really really helpful.

[01:18:28]And uh I think this is especially truth in the spiritual circle.

[01:18:35]Suffering is usually the greatest motivation to for inquiry and the more of that suffering in the system exposed because that exposure bringing the light into the darkness it transforms it.

[01:18:54]Suddenly the same pain become a source of mindblowing fascination.

[01:19:01]You see how it it it gets created. You see how the illusion comes into a play and then you can't believe it anymore.

[01:19:12]And there are people who are in denial of it and they oh no I already got it and they stay miserable.

[01:19:19]No no but the belief is no no I'm clear I'm enlightened.

[01:19:24]No honesty, no humility.

[01:19:28]That's sad because there's nothing like you know 12step program says they are amongst us those constitutionally incapable of rigorous honesty.

[01:19:42]Poor guys for them we have nothing to offer. You're not one of them.

[01:19:49]This is beautiful. This is a call for celebration.

[01:19:53]just having it exposed.

[01:19:58]I love I I was actually inspired at some point I don't know it may come strong again to write a book this was just maybe five six years ago I was laughing with Bob about it write a book the ways to suffering how the human mind constructs the psychological suffering in so many subtle ways it makes itself believe into that separation into that misery and it finds so many little tricks of trapping itself in that narrow cage of concepts.

[01:20:33]I've got it is one of it. Or I know better than you or I'm right, you're wrong. Wow.

[01:20:42]It's just is wow heartbreaking. Wants to make you cry. But at the same time, how brilliant, how simple.

[01:20:52]See the ways it plays in your system.

[01:20:55]You know, take a future. Wow.

[01:20:58]And how deeply it gets you to that point of, "Oh, God." [snorts] No.

[01:21:05]Amazing.

[01:21:08]Give me some ideas. Maybe I get that book one day.

[01:21:15]>> That's good.

[01:21:18]>> Yeah. But now I might leave here and think that I'm fabulous and that'll be [laughter] that's the other side of the coin. But um yeah. No, that's that's good. Good.

[01:21:28]>> Okay. Don't [laughter] >> worry. It doesn't last long.

[01:21:36]>> It doesn't last long.

[01:21:45]>> And uh this that's not an imperfection by the way.

[01:21:49]>> No, >> it's not an imperfection. M >> there's nothing faulty about this functioning of this character in the story. It's exactly as the whole shebang is it's as it should be >> because this although it seems that this body is separate from the environment it's not it's to everything is interconnected. So all the the the the thoughts that you see through the feelings in the the sensations in the body all of that is exactly as it should be you know to to say it's wrong or right or whatever is again a concept but isn't it marvelous see how the thought comes I get um uh it's this place is like an oasis I get relief when I come here.

[01:22:48]>> It's wonderful. But I know that when I step out the door, I'll be back to suffering.

[01:22:53]>> Mhm.

[01:22:54]>> So, and you energy of belief goes into it.

[01:22:58]>> You believe it. But how wonderful is that? Because you believe that and keep coming.

[01:23:07]>> Eventually, you you'll see that um there's never any difference. It's always it's actually always there. It's a you take it with you everywhere.

[01:23:16]You're You can't escape it.

[01:23:21]>> You stand up.

[01:23:25]>> Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I like that.

[01:23:29]I I like what um Tanya said about right or wrong. And I love that you say that, you know, I'm a miserable bastard. Um I don't know if you said that, but that's where it came from. You know, that's whatever >> because I can, you know, I can sort of do the same things. What I'm hearing is a lot of just today anyway like the word non-duality doesn't exist. It's just a pointer and dualism doesn't exist and it's just a pointer. And I had the same discussion with cat about is it a faith? Is it a belief? Is non-duality a belief? And for me lately it's been coming up that it's it's not. It's just something we live.

[01:24:09]And getting back to the wrong or right, I've started to see and I constantly do this is as a human being there's a battle to be right or wrong. You're wrong or you're right. You're a miserable bastard. You're right. You know, there has to be a right or a wrong. And that's what you were saying T. There's no right or wrong. You're not wrong and you're not right. [laughter] It's about and I struggle at all my conversations most of the time when I have a conversation with someone and I've just become aware of this. I'm having a conversation because I need to show you that I'm right. I whatever I however like even now even now I'm talking because I'm going to show you that I know something or that I'm right.

[01:24:54]I don't know anything and I'm not right and I'm not wrong. And I think what I'm starting to hear is the investigation invest what again another thing I'm learning is needs as a human we talk about the cats and the dogs and the animals and the trees and everything they know what their needs are. They there's the the beautiful white govern trees that as a tour guide I used to teach people about it was that um they know what their needs are and you they call it the widow maker because the branches will fall off and the branches fall off because the tree goes oh look I can't afford to send water to this branch so the branch falls off so it gives it nourishment to other things >> and as a human for some reason because of that right and wrong thing I'm finding is that we had to go to war.

[01:25:45]There's a war. It's war.

[01:25:48]It's Yeah, it's there's just a war. So, what I'm trying to say is that like I've got these workmen coming to this property that I've got and they didn't turn up the other day. You know, I rang them at 12 or something and they said, "Yeah, yeah, we're coming. We're coming." 3:00 they ring and go, "No, we're not going to make it." And you know, I went up there the night before for them to come. So, I'm out in the bush walking and I am I won't use the words what I was saying, but I was swearing my head off >> because these FNC's, how dare these FNC's, I was ropable. I was ang and I loved the anger. I loved it. It felt so empowering. I was enjoying it. And then I said to myself, what need hasn't been met? What need are they supposed to meet for me? Oh, they're supposed to know that my home is really important to me and I need things done immediately. They should have been done yesterday, not tomorrow. They don't understand my needs.

[01:26:52]Hold on. I don't understand my needs.

[01:26:55]It's still something I'm processing.

[01:26:57]Now, when I f get my needs met, when I meet my needs, I'm not making demands on other people. And I just heard something then about like there's the tram going by and there's people we're all so angry.

[01:27:12]We're really angry. People are out there waiting for a tram and the tram doesn't turn up. So, they're really angry.

[01:27:19]>> You know, they get angry. Now, the tram didn't turn up because the driver was running late and because the driver had to drop their kids off to somewhere and and there's a whole thing of why something's going on, but yet I'm an individual and I have needs and you should meet them. And it's just for me, I'm just sharing the beauty of coming to this point where I've been doing this for 50, 60, don't even go there. We'll go back to 40. I think that's a lie.

[01:27:49]That's my imagination. That's a load of [ __ ] But you know, for so many years, I've been angry. We're angry at the world, angry at friends, angry at dropping friends because they don't meet my needs.

[01:28:03]>> But no one teaches us what our needs are. So somebody is miserable, unhappy, jealous, insecure, vulnerable, all of those things.

[01:28:14]>> It's got nothing to do. And it's so I love it comes non-duality and dualism.

[01:28:21]I'm going to be dangerous and say it doesn't exist.

[01:28:25]Doesn't exist.

[01:28:27]None of it exists. But his pointers >> and it's only the word that is trying to point to it. So I love that you two have been called witches [laughter] and cows >> because it's it's superb.

[01:28:41]It's absolutely >> superb because it means nothing >> unless you put a meaning to it.

[01:28:48]>> Nothing means anything. And anyone who says it has a need. They have a need that hasn't been met.

[01:28:55]>> How divine.

[01:28:56]>> But we don't express it well. Instead of me coming to you and saying, "I have a need. You're not meeting my needs.

[01:29:03]>> You don't have to meet my needs.

[01:29:06]>> It's not personal.

[01:29:07]>> It's not personal.

[01:29:08]>> Personal. It's nothing is personal.

[01:29:11]>> I just did it. I just shared earlier this morning or something. My husband said something to me last night.

[01:29:18]>> Boy, did it trigger me. I lay there and I thought, "Fuck, you're dead, mate.

[01:29:23]You're off." You know, I don't like you.

[01:29:25]I don't like you. I even looked over when he was sleeping. I don't like you.

[01:29:30][laughter] >> And I loved watching it. And I [clears throat] didn't act on it. In the past, I act on it. I'm going to have to tell you that what you've said has hurt me.

[01:29:40]>> He didn't say it to hurt me. It wasn't personal.

[01:29:43]>> He was telling me a story.

[01:29:46]But I could take it that way. No. Well, I don't I don't want to take it. I don't need to anymore.

[01:29:53]>> Yeah.

[01:29:54]>> That's the freedom.

[01:29:56]>> But I'm sorry to tell you, Ben. It's taken me 20 or 30 years. [laughter] It didn't come overnight. You know, I love it here about actors and singers and stuff like that. They become famous at some stage, don't they? And then if you actually talk to them, you found out it's taken them 20, 30 years. They didn't become famous overnight. You know, it didn't happen. It's by osmosis.

[01:30:18]It takes takes whatever it takes. That's like my But did you ever That was just beautiful. That was just gorgeous.

[01:30:27]Gorgeous. I love that so much.

[01:30:31]What came overnight? What didn't come overnight?

[01:30:37]What took time to arrive?

[01:30:39]>> What took time to arrive?

[01:30:42]>> It's true. That's true. That's point.

[01:30:46]We label things. We label it, you know.

[01:30:49]We label it. It should happen now or there's a It's a label, isn't it? That's a good point.

[01:30:55]>> Oh, yeah.

[01:30:57]>> Oh.

[01:30:58]Uh, actually it that presence awareness of presence presence awareness oh >> it's always that never not been >> that's true >> always been so many >> and I think we're out of time awesome awesome session I also I also want to just read those few text uh few texts and yes that was a good story I I love the part when you said that you know animals don't have to even know their needs the father in the sky knows knows that they have a need for food and shelter and it provides. We don't even have to have elaborated stories of of what our needs and other people needs.

[01:31:41]We don't even need to go to the concepts about that. Staying in the present.

[01:31:47]Everything that is required to be known in the moment will arise out of nowhere and dissolve into the nowhere. That was beautiful highlight you know when you brought the animals and nature that was uh beautifully clear. And then I have just a very very quick um uh Lindsay says you mentioned before about how the ego creates delusion of grandeur and being awakened but it also creates such stories around the opposite end of that same pendulum.

[01:32:16]Same same absolutely that's exactly it.

[01:32:19]What creates the inferiority creates the delusion of grandeur. They both the same two ends of the same stick. both being banned that that's that's where the freedom whether you are superior or inferior you are separate thank you Lindsay and James says you you imagined ego is the star of the movie you are dreaming that's absolutely right and Lindsay says beautiful beautifully expressed cat I noticed there was a place where I thought I had and then that got accompanied later by I don't have it and all the pain of that was defense strategy of the mind. Wow, how amazing. And Anthony says like an oasis is a beautiful way of putting it. Seems like we live in a world of lucking in water. [laughter] Yeah. Swimming in the ocean, longing for water. Of course.

[01:33:23]>> Yeah. Of course. We are 90% water and the earth is mostly water but we are wandering the desert needlessly. Thank you Anthony and thank you everyone.

[01:33:37][laughter] Ah yeah we over