Big Jon Steel Takes On Muhamed Hijab's Right Hand In Heated Debate

Added: 2026-06-04

[00:00:00]So, I got to debate one of the biggest Muslim apologists on YouTube. Well, kind of not really. I ended up debating his right-hand man, Sabor, but I did go up onto Muhammad Joab's live to have a quick discussion or debate with them.

[00:00:13]Unfortunately, Muhammad Joab just spent his time kind of staring off into the distance with this blank look on his face and then eventually just kind of leaning off to the side off camera. I'm not too sure why he did that, but I did end up having a conversation with his right-hand man for about 20 to 30 minutes or so. Now, unfortunately, we couldn't go much longer than that because I waited forever to get on the live. And I did have to go to work. I was running late for work. So, I had to go up and do what I had to do and then get out. He was supposed to start his live at a certain time, and I ended up sitting there waiting forever. What are we waiting on? We're waiting. We're waiting for Hijab to start his live so we can go up and have a little chitchat.

[00:00:54]Hit him. It's skipping again. Hit the jukebox. It's skipping again. So I don't know what do you guys want to do? You guys want to keep waiting or do you want to go do something else?

[00:01:01]>> And it's a of and it's no more poignant that we should be making a on a stream where I'm sure many people will be coming to challenge it, you know, but um there is no god worthy of worship except for Allah. There is no god worthy of worship except for Allah has no associates with him. You know, there's no partners with him. Anyways, after sitting there and waiting for what seemed like forever and just listening to him yap and yap and yap, we also got the privilege of just listening to him build himself up about how much better they were than God Logic because they were raising money for charity where God Logic raised money for himself. So, it was just a lot of well this >> and do you know what's most shocking about this >> Avery that charlatan he raised $6,000 to >> allow him to win a court case so that a video which is already online can be put on his channel. We raised half that amount approximately for the poor people of Lebanon, including >> Who cares?

[00:02:04]>> Oh, look look look look at this. This is this all this is is look at look at me.

[00:02:09]Everyone look at me. I'm such a good guy.

[00:02:12]I'm such a good guy, guys. I'm so much better than the other guy. And also, once again, I got to show the whole world that every time I deal with Islamic apologetics that I'm actually a prophet of God. I don't think I'm about to cook. I'm just going to go up and ask some questions, man. I'm just going to go up and ask some questions cuz look what it says. It says it's a live Q&A questions and answers. So, I'm going to go ask some questions. And you know what's going to happen? What about the Trinity? And I'm not going to go there.

[00:02:39]Not going to go there. Not going to let it happen because what does it say? It's a live Q&A. Non-Muslims only.

[00:02:45]>> That studying nature and if you're on an island that we can somehow come to the concept of the Trinity. Give me a justification for that.

[00:02:51]>> Ah, you're running. I I told everybody before I started this live, I said, "I guarantee you I'm gonna ask this question and they're going to say, "What about the Trinity?" Now, as you're going to see as we engage in this debate, he doesn't actually allow me much opportunity to speak or clarify my position. So, as we're going through this, we're going to stop here and there and I'm going to explain some things and what's actually happening in the conversation, but I'm not going to remove anything. We're going to post the full debate as we move forward. So, let's get into it.

[00:03:20]>> How you doing, John?

[00:03:21]>> I'm good, guys. Um, so just heads up, I only got like 10 minutes before I have to go to work, so I don't know if we'll be able to dive into everything. Um, this is Q&A, right?

[00:03:31]>> Yeah, it is. It is. I can see you got a big cross there, so I'm assuming you're on the other side of the spectrum.

[00:03:35]>> Yeah, I'm a Christian.

[00:03:37]>> Yeah, I wanted I actually wanted to talk to talk to you for a while, but I'm just never around when you go guys go live.

[00:03:42]So, I'm actually feeling blessed right now.

[00:03:44]>> Yeah.

[00:03:44]>> Um, >> brilliant. Brilliant. So just on that we are just to let you know as Muslims we are fundraising for Lebanon to help Muslims and Christians. So in that vein I want you to understand that this stream is not our usual sort of thing.

[00:03:58]But either way go far away with your question.

[00:04:00]>> What what do you mean by not usual sort of thing >> as in it's a bit of a special event.

[00:04:05]We're actually fundraising. It's the holiest day of the year.

[00:04:07]>> Okay.

[00:04:08]>> And we're fundraising for a calamity that's hit Muslims and Christians.

[00:04:12]>> What's the What's >> in that context? What's like the partner organization you guys are connected with for like the fundraising?

[00:04:18]>> Yeah.

[00:04:18]>> Yeah.

[00:04:19]>> No, no. What is it like the organization?

[00:04:21]>> Oh, Mercy to Humanity.

[00:04:23]>> Yeah.

[00:04:23]>> Mercy to humanity.

[00:04:24]>> The idea is that it's there as a mercy whether you're a Muslim, you're Christian, you're Jew, you're atheist, Jews, whatever.

[00:04:31]>> You can search it on. I mean, we've got it on the description.

[00:04:33]>> Yeah, it's in the description there.

[00:04:34]>> Yeah. Okay. Fire away with your question.

[00:04:36]>> We'll take a look at it. 10 minutes.

[00:04:37]>> Yeah. So, uh quick uh just short story about me. I've had hundreds of conversations with hund hundreds of Muslims. Uh there's always a question that I ask that I don't think I ever get sufficiently answered and it's just simply what is the justification to say Islam is true. Usually when I ask that question I get what Islam is and what you guys believe and why it's appealing but not actually the justification why we would say that it is true. And so I figure hey why not ask the biggest uh biggest Muslim that's on on YouTube what is the justification? Why would we say that it's true? So, what you're going to notice right away is that I said I usually ask people for justifications, but instead of giving me one, they just give me what they believe. And I actually think he does the same thing here. But before we get into that, I want to talk about what exactly is a justification. So, for somebody to claim that something is really true, they need a justified true belief. This relies on three components of knowledge. There's belief, knowledge, and justification.

[00:05:32]These three components lead you into a justified true belief. We can say that S knows P if and only if one it is true that P. Two S believes P and three S is justified in believing in P. When we're talking about belief, it's the fact that a person can't know something without first believing it to be true. Truth is if a person knows something then it must be true. If a belief is false, it cannot be true and therefore it cannot be known. And then the most important part here is going to be the justification.

[00:06:02]It's not simply enough to believe something is true. There must be a justification through sufficient evidence. And ultimately what I'm asking him is for that justification. And I don't think I get it. All right. I'll have a quick crack at this and then we'll let Hijab speak about this. For anything to be justified, there has to be a level of reasoning. There has to be a level of logic behind it. There has to be some form of >> um argumentation. Whenever I speak to Christians in particular, I would say to come over to Islam, you have to first look at Islam's theology. Islam's theology is something very clear on the unity of God. We believe that there's only one God. We believe that that one God is the only one worthy of worship.

[00:06:49]And we believe that that one God is nothing like the creation. So when it comes to the belief in God, Islam makes a lot of sense. Now you could be born on an island and never hear of Islam and Christianity. Yet you can come to the fundamentals about the Islamic concept of God even without interacting with the Muslim people.

[00:07:10]>> Can can I can I pause?

[00:07:10]>> You cannot say that you cannot say that when it comes to Christianity >> because you're Christian. I'm giving it giving you an answer in your context.

[00:07:19]You cannot say that about the Christianity. There's nothing that you can discern from studying nature that will make you think that this DNA molecule is pointing out a triune God.

[00:07:30]But it can point out that there is one true God. So in a nutshell, that's the simple reason why I believe Islam is justified over Christianity.

[00:07:38]>> Okay? But that's a what that's what you believe, not why you believe it. So that's like, hey, I believe these things. It seems true to me, but I'm asking for like a justification how you came to those conclusions on why it's true.

[00:07:50]>> Right. So, did you hear the point when I said that you could be on an island >> and you could come to the idea of the basic concepts of God in Islam without interacting with Islam?

[00:08:01]>> Yeah. How do you know that?

[00:08:02]>> Do you remember?

[00:08:03]>> Sorry.

[00:08:04]>> How do you know that?

[00:08:06]>> Okay, good. So you're on an island and on this island you look at all of the things around you based upon the fact that these things are limited these things are dependent these things are contingent you're going to make some sort of an inference for a first cause now when it comes to that first cause you're going to start thinking okay this first cause is it the case that this cause is intelligent is it the case that this cause is conscious is it the case that this cause is knowing is it the case that this cause is eternal and you could do a conceptual analysis and come up with the idea. Yes. And then if you look a bit further, you think >> Yeah. So, so just just for the sake of time, I'm aware of the contingency argument. Like I know what the contingency argument is. I know where that leads, but that that doesn't lead us to Islam. That just leads us to like a necessary necessary being, something that has that isn't contingent, just necessary to the state of the universe.

[00:08:55]>> You stopped me midflow. I was just about to point out the second concept in go about God which is unique to Islam which is not true in Christianity which is >> when you come to the idea of one independent being one independent God.

[00:09:09]>> Islam is the only religion that says it's only you and that god you worship that god directly you do not go to that god through a dead person.

[00:09:18]>> Why do I have to worship it >> through an idol through nature or through anything else. And that is a logical inference you can arrive at without interacting with Islam. And the third aspect is that God is nothing like his creation which is a logical deduction based upon the contingency argument. And in fact anybody with some introspection realize >> but there's a logical there's a logical leap that you did there. You got to necessary being simply by observing the trees. And even if I grant that we get to like a necessary being. I don't know how we get from necessary to being to we worship this necessary being and we do it the Islamic way. So this ends up being the crux of the entire argument.

[00:09:55]We get stuck on this contingency point, never actually get to Islam. His whole point is that if we could simply just look at the world around us, we can conclude by simply going backwards using, you know, contingency things that eventually we have to get to an argument. So the contingency argument is this. If you look at something uh you can see that is contingent that it could be another way, then you need some sort of explanation on why it is the way that it is. You can't have uh add infinite item going back of contingent things.

[00:10:21]you need some sort of necessary thing to begin. I don't really want to do a whole video on the contingency argument right now. That's not the point. So, I could grant this to him. I could say, "Yeah, okay, contingency argument, we get to necessary being." But there's logical leaps that he's making. He's saying, "Yep, necessary being, one god worthy of worship." There's a big problem with that. The problem is a necessary being doesn't always entail a mind. He has yet to make an argument for that. It also doesn't entail that that mind gives a rat's butt about us or anything that we're doing. He also has to give an argument for that. And he also doesn't argue how we even get remotely close to the idea of Islam from that because again we can have this singular one being that is a god with a mind. We can grant all of that and we could still have things like unitarian Christianity, Judaism, Zoroastrianism. You could pick many different religions that have this concept of one God and still come to that conclusion through his version of the contingency argument which again was not exhaustive. It just gets you to a necessary being. And so this is something that I keep pressing him on.

[00:11:24]How do you get to the point of contingency to Islam?

[00:11:28]>> Do you do you agree with me that you can arrive at the concept of one God using the contingency argument?

[00:11:37]I think you can get to a necessary being, but then you have to get into like the semantics of what that being means and why you come to those conclusions.

[00:11:45]>> It's not semantics, it's >> semant semantics is just how we define terms. So like when we're talking about being, what do we mean by being? I do think there has to be a necessary being.

[00:11:53]We can make observations in this world if you hold specifically to like uh uh a theory of time. Now, you could actually throw that out if you hold to like a B theory of time.

[00:12:02]>> Look, this is a diversion. I think you're not understanding my point. Did you hear me say conceptual analysis of the first cause? Did you explain that we can do an analysis of what the nature of the first cause is?

[00:12:14]>> I think we can get to a necessary being.

[00:12:16]I don't know how we get to this Islamic version of worship though. I feel like there's a big leap of logic there.

[00:12:21]>> Yeah, you didn't answer my question. My question was, did you hear me? I think the fourth time I'm mentioning it. Now, we can do a conceptual analysis about the nature of that cause.

[00:12:31]>> Okay. So, I felt like I answered that, but it maybe I'm misunderstanding. I'm mis I'm misunderstanding the question.

[00:12:35]So, if you'd be so kind to rephrase it for me.

[00:12:38]>> It's that you're trying to misunderstand a very clear point. You're not actually misunderstanding. You're understanding it really well, but you're diverting.

[00:12:44]>> I want you to pay attention to that.

[00:12:45]That's the first slip that he does.

[00:12:48]Instead of addressing the argument, he's now starting to address me. And it doesn't stop. Pay attention.

[00:12:53]>> Did I or did I not say >> that we can now do a conceptual analysis of the nature of this first cause? Did I not say it for the sixth time?

[00:13:01]>> You said those words. Sure.

[00:13:03]>> Right. Yeah. And so then I started explaining how we can do a conceptual analysis of that cause. For example, we can use Aristotle's idea of the principle of proportionate causation.

[00:13:15]>> Well, hold on. You say we're stuck on an island.

[00:13:19]>> You're changing the analogy.

[00:13:20]>> You can do you agree with me. You can come up with the idea of PPC without Aristotle, without learning Greek philosophy. It's a basic idea. any any human who sits and thinks long enough can come up with conceptual ideas and philosophy. Sure.

[00:13:34]>> Okay. So, what's your point if it's on an island?

[00:13:36]>> Yeah, but I just don't I just don't understand how we're getting from a contingency. Like I said, I'm short on time. I'm aware of the contingency argument. How do we get to necessary being to Islamic religion?

[00:13:44]>> Okay. Let me let me tell you of the dilemma that you're in right now.

[00:13:48]>> You've jumped onto the live stream.

[00:13:49]>> You've put a time limit.

[00:13:51]>> I'm trying to give you an answer to the very question you've asked without actually understanding my answer. You're already saying that you don't understand the answer. So I don't understand what you're trying to achieve in this live stream.

[00:14:02]>> So contingency argument gets us to a necessary being. Are we on the same page?

[00:14:06]>> Right.

[00:14:06]>> Okay. So we have a necessary being.

[00:14:09]>> Can can we talk about the semantics of what that being is and how you come to those conclusions?

[00:14:14]>> And was I not trying to do that?

[00:14:16]>> I don't know. Were you?

[00:14:18]>> No. I'm just going to ask you this directly. Was I not trying to explain to you the nature of the first? I think there was a leap of logic that you did like I said you had a necessary being and then the leap of logic came and says that we have to worship this being in which I jumped in and I said how do you come to this conclusion >> there was there was no leap because once you asked the question I started explaining to you why now you seem to have a problem with the idea of worshiping God alone that seems to be a big problem for you which is surprising that you're a Christian because I thought that is a pretty fundamental Christian belief >> this is just poisoning the world >> that's very surprising >> and there it is ladies and gentlemen you have a problem with worshiping God alone. Instead of actually addressing the argument or having the conversation or showing me how my objection is like out of place, he's attacking the character. He's saying, "Hey, you specifically got an issue with worshiping God alone. Obviously, this is the conclusion. The issue isn't in my argumentation. It's within you." Which is going to lead into the next point of his so-called argument. He's going to try to rest on my presuppositions, my justifications for why I believe what I believe. He's going to say, "Hey, we can agree on this. So, if we can agree on this, the rest should just follow."

[00:15:21]Except there is a big problem with that.

[00:15:22]So, let's keep watching.

[00:15:23]>> Sorry, >> this is just poisoning the well.

[00:15:26]>> No, poisoning the well is to jump on a live stream and say, "I've only got 10 minutes," and ask a question, and then before that question's answered, to interrupt and divert the answer. That's Zing the Well.

[00:15:36]>> No, that's not poisoning the well.

[00:15:38]>> Can we agree on some fundamental facts?

[00:15:40]>> Sure. What What are we agreeing on?

[00:15:41]Let's Let's find common ground. What are we agreeing on?

[00:15:44]>> Okay, fine. Firstly, you came on the stream about 5 minutes ago. You said you had 10 minutes, so I'm assuming you have five minutes left. Well, I got about five to 10 roughly. Yeah.

[00:15:54]>> Fine, fine, fine. Can we just agree on something very simple, which is this?

[00:16:01]>> Do you believe that God is the only one worthy of worship?

[00:16:04]>> Yeah, this is completely okay. Let's pretend I'm an atheist. Where do we go from here?

[00:16:08]>> Cuz you're you're you're resting on my presuppositions there. If if you're going to ask me that question, if you're asking me that question, you're resting on presuppositions.

[00:16:15]>> You're clearly you're clearly >> Let me let me explain my objection. Let me explain my objection. If you're see what you're doing right now, let me just tell you, Big John Steel, >> you're a mid level YouTuber. You're making content for your channel, right?

[00:16:28]Atheist, saved by Jesus. You've made it.

[00:16:31]I can see not that mid-level if you know who I am.

[00:16:34]>> The worst way you can introduce yourself to a new audience is by coming up and making flatfooted statements and then getting fact checked on them.

[00:16:44]>> Yeah. Can Can I explain why what my objection is? Can I explain my objection? This is not the This is not the best way to enter into the arena.

[00:16:51]So, can we agree on a common ground before we continue?

[00:16:55]>> Yeah. Can I explain my objection?

[00:16:58]>> Well, no. I think it's better since you you have a time limit that we just agree on a common ground.

[00:17:04]>> Okay. So, what are the common grounds you want to agree on?

[00:17:07]>> Okay. So, here here's here's the first point I want to agree on. Any belief that a Muslim or a Christian or anybody else is going to make an argument for should be based upon logic.

[00:17:20]>> You that's that's the justification, right? We have we have knowledge, belief, and justifications. We're looking for justification, >> right? The second point is to speed this conversation up. There's certain things we both are claiming to believe, so we should just outright put our cards on the table.

[00:17:39]>> Okay? For example, from my perspective, only God is worthy of worship. Do you agree with that?

[00:17:44]>> Yeah. The problem with that is you're relying on my presuppositions to make your argument. So the reason I come to the conclusion that only God is worthy to worship is because of the historical data of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. So my presupposition is not going to help your argument.

[00:17:56]>> Logic logic has gone out the window. As soon as you say statements like that, it's gone out the window.

[00:18:00]>> So first of all, can we talk about the fact that he just started poisoning the well, calling it mid-tier, talking down about my channel, but then seemed to know a lot about my channel. It's really weird for a guy who's not known. He knew a lot about me. But let's talk about what I'm talking about here. The justification. He's trying to rest on my presupposition that we both agree that God alone is worthy of worship. Now, it is true that I believe that. The problem is he cannot come to that conclusion based off my justification because my justification doesn't entail Islam. My justification for believing that God alone is worthy of worship is because of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That's why I believe what I believe. When I look at things like the historical reportage model and I can say that I trust in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John and Acts, I say when we look at those, there's enough data to say that Jesus Christ actually existed. He performed miracles, that he was God incarnate, that he died on the cross and he resurrected. And because of that, I say God alone is worthy of worship. If he rests on my presupposition, that entails Christianity, not Islam. That would actually debunk Islam. So he's trying to escape the burden that he has to actually justify his religion, hoping to just rest on my presupposition, which is just terrible argumentation and a terrible justification for your own religion. It just doesn't work. You're saying your idea.

[00:19:16]>> What did I say? That's illogical.

[00:19:18]>> You go ahead.

[00:19:20]>> What was the first statement? The first statement was whatever we are going to argue for today should be based upon logic.

[00:19:26]>> Yes. As soon as you start talking about things like the resurrection of Jesus, like your reference to the Bible or whatever it is, all of these things are illogical. You have you have to >> Yeah, that that's that's a red herring, right? I'm saying that's my justification. I could substantiate my justification, but that's not the conversation here. What I'm saying is you can't rely on my presupposition for your argument because my presupposition does not entail Islam. It entails Christianity.

[00:19:53]>> I never Okay. I never said I'm relying on your presupposition.

[00:19:57]>> You are.

[00:19:58]>> I said there is something we both believe in which is that God is only God is the only one worthy of worship.

[00:20:06]>> Right? But we come to those conclusions for different reasons. So therefore, you can't use my justification as your justification.

[00:20:14]>> I never said I will cuz I don't believe in the Bible.

[00:20:16]>> Right? So So then you have to substantiate your argument first on why God alone is worthy of worship from your perspective, not from mine.

[00:20:25]So why don't we agree about this? If it's the case that me and you both agree for whatever reasons that God is the only one worthy of worship from my perspective, I can do that.

[00:20:36]>> Okay. Okay. One second. Reason and logic. I can use the Quran. You can use the Bible. Whatever it is. Now, can we clearly make a link between the belief in God being the only one worthy of worship and whether Islam lives up to that or >> but again, how are we coming to the conclusion that Allah is the only one worthy of worship? Where do you get this leap of logic? This is what I'm saying.

[00:20:58]I don't think Islam standing hold on. I don't think Islam standing alone has a justification for its religion. You rely you rely on the presuppositions of Christianity and then you say to Christians, okay, we agree on this. Let me explain why your real worldview doesn't make sense and mine does make more sense. So I need a justification how you get from a necessary being to Islam. And that's a question I ask many many many Muslims and I rarely actually get a good answer to it. A lot of Muslims when they come up and they want to have a conversation or try to convince you of their religion, they always start with, "Well, hey, we already believe the same thing, don't we? like we're not that different, are we? And that's just rhetoric and relying on one's emotion and their own intuition. And it's not good argumentation. Before anybody takes anybody's truth claim, you need to figure out why they believe it in the first place. What's the reasons that they believed it to be true? A lot of Muslims when I talk to them, they just say, "Well, the trinity didn't make any sense to me, so therefore I went to Islam." I just want everybody to know it is not the case that Christianity false, therefore Islam is true. We have many people who convert to Islam.

[00:22:02]>> Before they convert to Islam, they don't say I convert to Islam because Islam says you only worship God alone. And that's what the Quran says.

[00:22:10]>> I've talked to many Muslims who said that.

[00:22:11]>> They actually make the argument like I did in terms of the island that the idea that you should worship God alone is an independent conclusion you can come to without knowing Islam. It's something very simple. How is the one? I'll tell I'll tell you exactly how. I've told you this m multiple times every single time.

[00:22:30]>> You get to necessary being, but you don't get to worthy of worship.

[00:22:33]>> You've done it again, John. You've done it again. And I told you this is not a great entry, and it's not going to be a great video for your channel. Okay?

[00:22:38]>> So, here's what here's what you need to here's what you need to keep in mind.

[00:22:41]>> I mean, hijab's just going to strike it anyways.

[00:22:44]>> Look, you can make these little swiping comments, but you've you've actually shown your cards already. So, you've not only failed in terms of entering this video and making a good point, you've actually also shown us that that was your intention from the very beginning.

[00:22:58]And in fact, if I turned up on your stream, the first thing I would say is I'm a YouTuber. I'm going to be coming here to review.

[00:23:05]>> You can't tell that I'm a YouTuber by my microphone and headset and lights.

[00:23:08]>> So, I can basically use the content on my channel. And if I was to do such a thing, which is >> notice how he's not answering Yeah.

[00:23:15]Everybody watching on his channel, notice how he's not answering my questions, but instead attacking my character. Notice that >> since you've asked multiple times and you want to know the answer and every time I try and give you the answer, you interrupt me. So, I'm just going to speak regardless whether you interrupt me or not.

[00:23:30]>> Here's the point. God is the one who is the sole cause of all of reality. He is the first cause. He is the necessary being. Mhm.

[00:23:39]>> By God being the cause of every single thing that we have in this life, >> it means that every single thing we have in this life, we should only praise and thank and glorify God alone for giving us those things because it makes absolutely no sense to thank the tree, to thank a Catholic saint, or to thank the supposed son of God, or all of these other intermediaries between us and God.

[00:24:09]The most logical conclusion is to worship the one who is the first cause, the only cause and the one who is behind the entire cosmos. Islam when it comes to and I'm sure you've read the Quran, the Quran repeatedly makes an argument and the argument is using God's lordship to argue for God's worship. Now, if you knew anything, and I'm I'm I'm sure you would because if you're a Christian YouTuber, you must know this. Islam's argument has always been that God's lordship leads necessarily to God's worship.

[00:24:48]>> And God's worship is the very purpose of life. And this is a message that's scattered throughout the Quran. So, I'm very surprised you don't know this.

[00:24:56]>> Okay, great. Uh, can you keep screaming logic? This is the only way we can get to this logical conclusion. Can you give me the deduction that leads to the conclusion that we have a necessary being therefore Islam?

[00:25:08]>> I never made that argument.

[00:25:10]>> You kept screaming. This is the only logical conclusion. Did you not? Did you not use the word logic?

[00:25:14]>> Wait. I was talking about the aspect of Islam which is to do with worshiping God. And like I mentioned to you, this is something that's known prior to Islam. Now, if someone said to me, why is Islam true? I would make arguments including the preservation of the Quran, including the predictions in the Quran, the predictions of the from the life of the >> Why didn't you go there? What if somebody was ask me how do you know Islam is true? I would have used all these other argumentations. My question would then be, what do you think I meant when I said I want a justification that Islam is true? He's trying to escape the conversation. It's almost like he just conceded that he doesn't have an argument here that this argument does not entail Islam. sociological the sociological miracle of the Quran. All of these things will comprehensively prove that Islam is true. However, the proposition that Allah is the only one worthy of worship.

[00:26:08]>> Okay?

[00:26:09]>> God is the only one worthy of worship is a proposition that you do not need even the Quran for. that for example in the Quran and I'm surprised you don't know this as someone who's obviously making videos about religion Islam has a very clear stance that the idea that God is the only unworthy of worship is an idea that has its origins in the fra in the natural state of man so even before the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him even before the biblical prophets we believe the idea that God is the only one worthy of worship is something intrinsic to the human being which is why in our belief of salvation. They could be someone born in Latin America who's never heard of Islam, but they believe in God and they believe God is the only unworthy of worship. We believe such a person is eligible for paradise even though they haven't taken the shahada.

[00:27:00]>> Yeah, but I'm not talking about a salvation you. I'm talking about a justification. So again, so far your argument, there was a lot of yapping.

[00:27:05]But your argument, your argument is this. Come on. I've let you talk for a while, man. Let me talk. Let me talk.

[00:27:10]>> I'll tell you I'll tell you what's happen. You're not going to let me talk at all. Every single time, every single time I give you a justification, your only answer is >> Can I explain why I don't think it's a justification? Can I talk?

[00:27:20]>> Okay, before I do that, I want you to address the point I've made. Before you say that's not justified, can you address the point I've made repeatedly that the idea that God is the only unworthy of worship, it can be something we can derive from our natural observation of the world, even if you've never heard of Islam. Do you agree with this?

[00:27:40]>> No. That's what I'm trying to object to.

[00:27:43]>> Why?

[00:27:44]>> Cuz here's your argument so far. I'm stuck on the island. I look at the trees. I think about it really hard. I get to necessary being. Therefore, worship it. That's your argument.

[00:27:53]>> Never said that.

[00:27:54]>> That's literally your argument. Tell me which part I got wrong.

[00:27:56]>> I've never said that.

[00:27:56]>> Which part did I get wrong?

[00:27:57]>> Listen, that that means you didn't >> just tell me which part I got wrong.

[00:28:00]>> Okay. Here's here's the dilemma you're in.

[00:28:03]>> Mhm.

[00:28:04]>> In order >> You're not going to explain what I got wrong. You're going to just say talk about me some more.

[00:28:07]>> Yeah. Well, >> yeah. If you've simply sidestepped my argument, then that's all I'm going to simply say. You've simply sidestepped my argument.

[00:28:14]>> How did I sidestep it?

[00:28:15]>> Now, and this is, by the way, I've been interacting with Christians for the past.

[00:28:19]>> Congratulations. Here's a cookie. Answer my question.

[00:28:21]>> This is this is the first time I've come across a Christian that to make his point, he wants to argue that God is not the only one worthy of worship in order to refute Islam. That's basically >> I'm not arguing that. I'm not saying I'm not against that. Notice that's a horrible straw, man. My position is what is your justification? You have no justification. So that's another kind of rhetoric gotcha trap that he tried to do right there. He made a point. He made an assertion that God alone is worthy of worship. In which I respond, hey, what is your justification? How do you know that? And instead of just answering the question, he says, "Wow, it's shocking.

[00:28:54]I met a Christian who doesn't believe that God alone is worthy of worship." I never made that claim. I never said that he wasn't worthy of worship. I once again do believe that God alone is worthy of worship, but I get there for different reasons. Again, this is just basic argumentation, but people need to realize that simply asking somebody for a justification for what they are saying to clarify their position is not assuming the opposite position. It's simply getting that person to substantiate their arguments. But they don't want to substantiate their argument. Instead, they want to start now attacking me.

[00:29:27]>> No, no, no. Your point is you said this yourself. I'm going to take your words and I'm going to put them back to you.

[00:29:33]I'm steel manning, not strongman. still man.

[00:29:36]>> You said you cannot justify the worship of God alone using logic.

[00:29:45]>> I never said that.

[00:29:47]>> So what did you say?

[00:29:48]>> I said your argument has a leap in logic. You get to the point of the contingency argument necessary being and then you say this is a being worthy of worship. How do you get to the worthy of worship? You said you when I asked you do you disagree with the idea that you can arrive at the main concept that you have in Islam that you should worship God alone outside of Islam. You said you disagreed with it.

[00:30:10]>> I said your logic doesn't make sense.

[00:30:13]What are you talking about?

[00:30:14]>> No, no, no. Okay. So, why don't you state your position clearly right now?

[00:30:17]Why don't you state your position?

[00:30:17]>> Yeah. Okay. So, my position is very clear. I'm looking for I'm looking Yeah.

[00:30:21]I'm trying to state it. I'm trying to state it. I got two minutes left.

[00:30:23]>> I'm going to look the whole the whole conversation.

[00:30:26]>> You asked me to state my position.

[00:30:27]asking you're you're asking for justification. When you're given justification, you say that's not justification.

[00:30:32]>> Can you define justification?

[00:30:34]Give me justification that studying nature and if you're on an island that we can somehow come to the concept of the trinity. Give me a justification for that.

[00:30:43]>> Ah, you're running. I I told everybody before I started this live, I said I guarantee you I'm going to ask this question and they're going to say, "What about the trinity? That's what you guys do. You guys have no justification for your religion. You just scream trinity.

[00:30:56]You just screamed chin of trinity. So, just I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to steal man your position. So, >> in your temperament, I can see it with the way that you look.

[00:31:04]>> Okay. Okay. Look. Okay. Watch. Watch this. Watch this. Watch. I'm going to do something no Christian has ever done.

[00:31:08]I'm going to do something no Christian's ever done. Watch enough.

[00:31:13]>> Watch that we should be worshiping God alone.

[00:31:16]>> You need to justify how we can believe in the Trinity. And I can see >> Yeah. Wait, wait. I'm I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to give you guys a clip. I'm going to give you guys a clip.

[00:31:24]Do you want a clip? I'm going to give you a clip. You won't ever let me talk.

[00:31:28]>> Yeah. Let's be honest here. This is not going to look good on your channel. I know this is this is what this was your more just steamrolling, more poisoning the well.

[00:31:37]>> Let's just stick to this.

[00:31:38]>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to give you a clip. I'm going to give you a clip.

[00:31:41]>> This conversation, the whole point of this conversation, >> you're going to get a big W if you let me speak.

[00:31:44]>> Need to make a video for your channel.

[00:31:46]So, I'm going to give you the opportunity to make a video for your channel. I am an unevangelized Muslim.

[00:31:51]justify to me why the Trinity is true by looking at nature. Go ahead.

[00:31:55]>> Okay. So, first of all, your does your channel say Q&A for Christians?

[00:31:59]Christians are supposed to come up and do questions and answers. Or is it Q&A for Islam? Which one is it? Remember how I said I was a prophet of God? I actually predicted that was going to happen. As soon as they don't have an actual reason to believe what they believe, they start attacking. They have this belief that, okay, well, if I could just debunk the Trinity, therefore Islam. And and that's really all they got. or at least that's 90% of what I see in Islamic apologetics is just let's take down the trinity and then it all just becomes rhetorical points and gotcha moments. But if you want to see me more being a prophet of Islam, then you should consider supporting the channel at big johnsteel.com where you get access to exclusive content or hangout sessions. You can actually watch this specific debate as it happened on the website if you want to. There are multiple tiers that you can subscribe to, but they all get you the same access. It's just how much you want to contribute to help the channel. But yeah, enough plugging. Let's get back to the video.

[00:32:50]>> Not answering the question, are you?

[00:32:51]>> Okay, so here's your clip. You've you've proved me wrong. Oh, here's your clip.

[00:32:56]Here's your clip. You've proved me wrong. I've been convinced Christianity is false. I deny the triune God. Now, why should I believe in Islam?

[00:33:04]>> This is very petty. You're grling now.

[00:33:07]>> You've You've convinced me. You gave me a riveting argument. Why should I believe in Islam?

[00:33:11]>> You're grling now. You see what's happened now is that's a big W. I'll tell you what I'll tell you what's really going on. I'll tell you what's really going on. You're like one of those kids in a playground, right?

[00:33:20]That's like >> you just got the biggest W ever, man.

[00:33:22]>> Let's meet behind the shed. Let's meet behind the shed after school. And when we meet behind the shed after school, you just lay on the floor.

[00:33:28]>> Come on, man. Please.

[00:33:30]>> Okay. So, what is your what is your reason to believe in Islam? Cuz so far I got >> contingency argument. Look at the trees.

[00:33:37]Contingency argument. Islam is true.

[00:33:39]>> Exactly. I'll tell you exactly what's going on.

[00:33:41]>> Okay. I'm making a very clear direct challenge to you because all you want >> because you can't answer the question.

[00:33:48]>> You want to simply sidstep the very blatant obvious thing which anyone can see which is Christianity does not call for the worship of God alone. Which is why you want to challenge that proposition that God is the only.

[00:34:02]>> Yeah, that's a great that's a great point. I'm no longer a Christian. Now why should I be a Muslim?

[00:34:06]>> Okay. And what what does that go to show you to your audience? It goes to show you >> he froze. Did I freeze or is it him? Do I have control of the channel now? Oh, no.

[00:34:22]>> I just happen to have a channel which is dedicated.

[00:34:25]>> I lost you for a second. I I lost you. I lost you for a second.

[00:34:28]>> No, no, I lost you. We lost the internet. I didn't hear what you said.

[00:34:31]>> The fact is you are a Christian. Stop denying you're a Christian or or you're unconvinced. You are a Christian, aren't you?

[00:34:37]>> No. You've given me a rivet of conversation. I've been convinced. I'm no longer a Christian. Why should be a Muslim?

[00:34:42]>> Okay, so take off that cross behind you first, then take off the cross.

[00:34:48]>> All right, now go ahead. What's the reason I should be a Muslim?

[00:34:51]>> Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

[00:34:54]>> Can you Wait a minute. What the >> You said if I took the cross off, you would answer the question. What's the reason I should be a Muslim? So, not that there was much substance in this conversation anyways, but from this point on, there's literally no substance at all. It all just becomes rhetoric.

[00:35:06]Oh, how can we make this guy look silly?

[00:35:08]Can we can make him denounce his religion in front of everybody? You notice how they're giggling cuz I put the cross on the ground, which is like a really weird thing because both Christians and Islam says that we shouldn't worship the cross, but yet they're giggling like it's some sort of gotcha moment. But you notice he's never actually going to keep his end of the bargain. He says if I do X, he will do Y. And he doesn't. He just keeps pushing the goalpost further back and further back. And again, showing that they don't know basic argumentation skills because this is called granting the argument. I grant your position that you've convinced me that Christianity is false.

[00:35:43]So now, why should we believe in Islam?

[00:35:45]Instead of actually moving the conversation forward, they're just like, "Nah, you're not really you don't really believe it. Let's let let's see how far we can push this," which is just really arguing in bad faith.

[00:35:58]>> Bro, please. This guy Come on. Please, can you can you sort out the camera for us, bro? Tell us what is going on here. What is going on? What do you think's going on here?

[00:36:10]>> He's taking the cross he's put on the floor.

[00:36:12]>> Oh my.

[00:36:13]>> So, all right.

[00:36:14]>> Firstly, mercy to humanity. Whoever's watching this, >> so um >> support mercy to humanity.

[00:36:19]>> Taking the cross, John.

[00:36:21]>> Uh >> this is what you guys want. Now, give me a justification for Islam.

[00:36:27]>> She's announced what? She denounced Kennanity.

[00:36:30]You've convinced me that's a riveting argument. I've been convinced it's no longer true. Why should I believe in Islam?

[00:36:35]>> No, you do not. Do you denounce Christianity?

[00:36:37]>> Oh my freaking >> You guys You guys are cowards. You guys are cowards. You know that, right?

[00:36:43]>> You want to convert to >> If you give me an actual justification, >> say look, look, we will give you an argument for Islam. We want you to say Jesus did not die for my sins. Just say that.

[00:36:55]>> Yeah. Not doing that. And you know that.

[00:36:56]>> Just say that.

[00:37:04]He would have took the He would have took the cross down.

[00:37:07]>> He would He would already took the cross down.

[00:37:10]>> He took the cross down.

[00:37:11]>> So So just just to be clear just to be clear, I I got I do have to go. I do have to go. So just to be clear, this whole I just want to just to be clear this whole conversation, you guys have zero justification for Islam. You only have arguments against Christianity, right?

[00:37:25]>> What do you think? Oh, >> I said he has to go.

[00:37:34]Cowards. Cowards. All right, I do actually have to go though. All right, guys. I love you all. Uh, God bless. See yall next time. So, there it is, ladies and gentlemen. Just some small unknown YouTubers stepping on one of the biggest Islamic platforms in the world. As far as I could tell, you can't get much bigger than Muhammad hid job, at least for popularity, and just being completely underwhelmed with their performance. Zero argumentation, zero justification, all rhetoric, and all just gotcha type questions. And this is one of the reasons I think most people really just don't take Islam that serious. Not that there are not good Islamic apologetics out there. There might be. I've yet to see it. But this this is not a good showing. Muhammad Hajab's interactions with Inspiring Philosophy, with Nick from Fearless Truth, with God Logic over the past couple months have been a really bad look for his platform and I wanted to go up and I genuinely wanted to have a good faith conversation. I didn't get that in return, but I don't know, maybe I'm just yapping a little bit too much here. Pray that he doesn't copyright strike this video, but yeah, God bless you guys. Let me know what you thought in the comments down below.