The Podcast Money Blueprint, Owning Your IP, & Why Black Creators Have To Be 10x Better w/ Mandii B

Added: 2026-05-28

[00:00:00]Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Butternomics. I'm your host, Brandon Butler, founder and CEO of Butter ATL. And today we got one of my favorite people in the building, Miss Mandy B. Mandy, how you doing?

[00:00:10]>> How are you? Do you say that to everybody? I one of my the f my favorite people in the building.

[00:00:14]>> I really I really emphasize favorite when you came. You're definitely one of my favorites. You know what I'm saying?

[00:00:18]How you doing today?

[00:00:19]>> I'm doing good. I'm doing good.

[00:00:20]>> Good. Good. It's so good to have you up in here, man. You out here killing it in the game.

[00:00:24]>> I'm trying. I'm trying. And I still don't feel like I'm killing it. Killing it because I'm still budgeting. Okay, I'm still looking at the cost of things and the and everything just keeps getting expensive, more expensive. So, I feel like I have to keep working.

[00:00:36]>> That's, you know, that's how it happens, right? If it's like things are going well, but then all of a sudden like those expenses keep on going up as things keep on going good >> and and they keep going and they keep compiling. They keep adding and multiplying. Um, but yeah, no, I'm good.

[00:00:49]I'm blessed.

[00:00:50]>> How How long have you officially been in the podcast game now?

[00:00:53]>> Um, this time next year we'll be hitting 10 years.

[00:00:58]>> Wow. Okay. Yeah, I did I I don't count the pod before Horrible decisions decisions decisions. Um it was a virtual one that I did with uh Lamar Woodley and Thousand, which is a radio personality uh from Pittsburgh. Uh but started with them in 2016 technically. Uh started Decisions Decisions Horrible Decisions in 2017. So I'm almost at a pretty much a decade in.

[00:01:20]>> Okay. All right. Now >> 10 years in, baby. And I would say quit my career 2019. So full-time almost seven years.

[00:01:29]>> That's dope. And a lot of people don't know like in a in a fast life you was a tax accountant. You were doing the corporate thing like >> I was I was I was I thought I was going to be a CPA.

[00:01:38]>> Really?

[00:01:38]>> Yeah. So I did about two years uh private at Goldman Sachs >> and then I went public to EY, one of the big four.

[00:01:49]>> Yeah.

[00:01:49]>> And I left EY to do what I'm doing now full-time.

[00:01:54]>> So So >> in 2019. So, how did that transition start to happen, right? Like, how do you go from being an accountant to all of a sudden having one of the biggest podcast out there?

[00:02:01]>> So, uh I guess we could just start at 2019. So, I was at EY. I was miserable.

[00:02:08]If anyone's ever been a tax accountant, mind you, I did tax accounting for hedge funds, uh investment banks, and it was not fun.

[00:02:20]>> Not fun. K1 season, uh, business return season. I'm talking 60, 70 hours salary.

[00:02:27]Yeah. Uh, working in New York, so at the Times Square office. And what they gave you if you stayed past 6:00 p.m. was dinner and an Uber ride home.

[00:02:35]>> Say some free some free pizza.

[00:02:37]>> You know what I mean? Some some BS, mind you, dinner kept at $25. I'm working in Time Square. What am I eating? A burger.

[00:02:43]Um, so it just got to the point where I was just really like miserable with work, right? And so at the same time, Weezy and I started uh putting oursel on tour. So how podcast do that now I see a lot more pods doing it. Basically we looked up our analytics, figured out which cities we had the biggest following in.

[00:03:04]>> We looked up theaters. We looked up rates to rent and we literally were renting out theaters and selling on Eventbrite. Making sure we price it at again my accounting degree. making sure we at least break even at the very little, but okay, how much do we have to price tickets at in order to, you know, see some profit. At the same time, we were also on Loudspeaker Network and they were monetizing our pod.

[00:03:28]>> Shout out to Chris Marorrow and A King who I work with now.

[00:03:31]>> Um, and so I'll never forget it. So 2019, we're doing shows. I'm telling my job I at this point they think I have some sort of illness cuz I need to go to the doctor either to record or because we have a show and I got to leave town early, right? But I told them I ain't even have social media cuz I'm talking about kinks. I'm talking about sex. I'm talking about getting flued out, baby.

[00:03:55]I'm in corporate. Okay, so I was co- switching like a [ __ ] >> So literally 2019, we're doing live shows. We sell out Carolines two nights in a week. We do Atlanta. We do Chicago, we do LA, we're doing all these cities, right? And come May, and this is how I know exactly my my timeline here. So at May of 2019, I matched my salary, >> okay, >> at EY with the podcast. So again, I was only a year one technically uh tax accountant in this in this group at EY.

[00:04:31]And my salary was 62,000. Mhm.

[00:04:34]>> I made $62,000 in 5 months.

[00:04:37]>> Oh yeah, we out.

[00:04:38]>> And so I was just like, hold on. I said, if I invest this minimum of 40 hours a week, sometimes max 70 hours a week and put them into myself. What What can happen here? You know what I mean? And so I'll never forget it. I went to my partner. Uh he was black, but again, I was also there was only two other black people on my whole team out of like a team of 30. Yeah, >> there was two of us and my partner happened to be black. And so I went to him and I said, "Listen, I'm going to go ahead and put in my two weeks. I let him know what I had been doing and I said, "I'm going to bank on myself. Like, I have this degree. If I ever need to come back, I'll come back.

[00:05:17]Accounting is always going to be there.

[00:05:19]Who knows with AI right now, but for the most part, it'll be there, right?"

[00:05:22]>> And so, I was also like, "What I don't want, don't do the cake. Don't have this team [ __ ] send me off. I don't like these [ __ ] So, so can I like I chose like three people on the team that I actually liked and I said I'll do lunch cuz I know you going to take me out to lunch and I said only invite three of these [ __ ] I don't really like these crackers and I'm out of here. Um, and I'll never forget it. I ended up giving them an additional two weeks because it was they were like, "Please don't leave us right now."

[00:05:53]>> And so I ended up giving them that end of May. I stayed through the month of June. My first week I was out was first week of July.

[00:06:00]>> Yeah. So, first week of July, I quit my corporate job and I bank on myself.

[00:06:07]Do y'all think I knew the future? I didn't, cuz guess what came eight months later? The goddamn pandemic.

[00:06:14]>> Pandemic.

[00:06:15]>> I said, "Oh, [ __ ] what what am I about to do now?" And um I don't think any of us as content creators would have ever thought and this is probably going to be a um what is it? An outof touch thing to say.

[00:06:32]Boy, 2020, 2021, 2022.

[00:06:37]Those three years at that time in my life was the most money I've ever seen in my life.

[00:06:41]>> I hear that all the time though. I hear that all THE TIME. AND I AIN'T I AIN'T DO no PPP loan. My accountant was very, "Bitch, you ain't paying the payroll.

[00:06:49]They will come and get your ass." Had I known they was gonna forgive everybody.

[00:06:52]I'm Oh, I still cuss him out today like, "Nigga, I should have got that PPP."

[00:06:56]>> Um, but we ended up we we saved so much on expenses because we were able to record virtually. We all figured out a way to record virtually. So, uh, we were doing that. And literally by the end of 2020, within a month of each other, I signed to Black Effect >> with Charlemagne. Um, so we were one of the anchor pods to to start Black Effect uh network. And then a month later, I announced signing with Joe Buddton.

[00:07:27]>> Yeah.

[00:07:27]>> And so, yeah, it's been a hell of a roller coaster since then. But yeah, like and so I have been just doing this and growing as much as I can since then.

[00:07:39]>> Absolutely. Now let me ask you know everybody everybody's everybody's doing podcast is a thing now. I mean they starting them like mixtapes they coming out >> when you all even started like you know horrible decisions decision everything like what do you think you all were doing that >> connected so much with people that made you all's podcast so successful to the point to where while it was still you know while you still working you could actually start to travel on it. like what do you think you were doing that was connecting with the audience?

[00:08:03]>> Oh, for me it's building our I would say our family, our hive. We have a whorehive. That's what we call them.

[00:08:10]>> Um, and they became our family, our friends. We ended up getting an audience like that I would compare to what Beyonce has, Rihanna has, like they rock with us. But I think what really made it more personable than ever is that we went on there giving it up. And so people were able to see themselves in us. We were two black women working in corporate literally sharing how we were navigating our sexuality, finding power, making mistakes, heartbreak, finding love. And I think um there's so many people in fear of sharing their truth.

[00:08:48]And so we kind of ate mild ourselves uh really early. a lot of things we wish we didn't share. Um, but a lot of people had never heard that before, especially from from women that they felt connected to with their same experiences. And a lot of our audience, teachers, lawyers, nurses, doctors, men, men that are truck drivers, delivery drivers, all very hardworking, workingclass black people, literally questioning where they land on the spectrum in terms of their sexuality, um, getting over trauma, uh, figuring out what they like, their kinks and fetishes. And so we were really niche and we really grew an audience of people that allowed themselves to grow with us. And I don't think a lot of people are as vulnerable as we were starting out.

[00:09:36]>> Do you think was that something that you all kind of did by intention? Like tell me how it actually originally started because I mean y'all just because it sounds like y'all just started like talking about things that were interesting to you all and all of a sudden you started hearing this audience really leaning in more.

[00:09:46]>> Yeah. So I mean Weezy came to me at the time. She was sharing a lot of her stories through um I think maybe Snapchat or Instagram early. I was big on Twitter, sharing all of my mess, typing it out. And we've known each other since high school. So, we ended up uh stopping our friendship for a while.

[00:10:04]And then we both ended up in New York.

[00:10:06]And so we she went on a podcast for one of her co-workers and was like, "Oh, this is easy. This is fun. This is she was great on the mic." And she came to me to join it. And I was like, "All right, girl. Uh, but listen, I'm about to be a CPA. I graduate um in a couple months. And so once I get into my career, if this isn't making any money, I'm not going to stick to it.

[00:10:28]>> Yeah.

[00:10:29]>> Um, we had dinner. We knew what we wanted to talk about. I'm very like, well, let's figure this out. How much are our expenses? We knew a studio. We paid at this time studio audio only cuz you didn't need video back then.

[00:10:43]>> $50 an hour.

[00:10:44]>> Oh, we in there. baby. We kept it at one hour and we would do two episodes each thing because we both worked. Um, and so bi-weekly we recorded two episodes at night or on the weekends and we did that for like a year strong before uh Chris Marl signed us. But yeah, we knew we wanted to talk sex and kink.

[00:11:07]>> I knew I wanted to specifically be for a black audience. I didn't care about white people and their sexuality. And so I just wanted to lean into us. We started getting guests early and it just grew. Uh horrible with spelled wh h o r e was her idea and I was just like it needs another word behind it. Like we can't just throw out. And so literally uh I said decisions but I was like and we lean into every episode and then I literally sat there and we came up with our segments over dinner >> over dinner.

[00:11:40]um that I owed her cuz I thought she was going to [ __ ] a guy that I had hooked her up with years before and she didn't.

[00:11:45]So, I owed her dinner. And then our first episode we had scheduled to record. Ironically, I had sex with a guy and the condom went missing. And so, she's like, "Oh my god, look how perfect. This is episode one." And yeah, we went to the gyno together to get it removed and that birthed episode one.

[00:12:06]You know, let me ask like even when you're building something like that, right? Like you're doing it and podcast is so interesting, especially back then, you know, because you were primarily audio.

[00:12:15]>> This was 2017.

[00:12:16]>> And you're like audio only.

[00:12:17]>> You're in people's ears, right? I think that's where that connection comes from.

[00:12:20]You're in somebody's ear for, you know, 30 minutes, an hour at a time, and you're really starting to build that connection. Like what were the things you all start to notice? What were the signals that you were like, you know what, we on to something. What was happening?

[00:12:30]>> I would say, honestly, so we started in March of 2017, right? We started Patreon maybe in July of that same year just because we're like, "Bitch, we got expenses." Again, we weren't seeing no money. It was all just coming out.

[00:12:46]>> And we signed up for Patreon and started giving bonus content. And then December of 2017, so we're not even a year in >> 2017. December, we do our first live show. We book like a [ __ ] we space.

[00:13:04]we work space they it's desks computer desks we move all to the side there's no elevator it's like a it's New York so it's like a two threetory walk up >> and we have to buy the stage we have to buy the chairs so literally we broke even that show but it is our first live show we sell out 160 tickets >> okay >> at like I think at this time maybe $35 a piece And as we walk up to the venue, cuz we got to set it all up, there's a line out the door. People flew from Chicago. People drove up from Philly. They came in from Jersey. And we're like, holy [ __ ] Whoa.

[00:13:48]So, I think our first time getting in front of our fan base >> really let us know, oh, we have something very special here.

[00:13:56]>> And then from there, it just snowballed.

[00:13:59]>> Just kept going, right? It snowalled.

[00:14:00]And and it's so funny like you mentioned loudspeaker network right like yes it's because I remember watching loudspeaker network I remember the read and oh and you know all the other >> so the re friend zone >> brilliant idiots uh trap nerds >> uh what's uh the one that passed away I'm sorry uh >> oh combat jack >> combat jack >> combat jack who started it all um >> who by the way is some of the inspiration for even this stuff in here with butternomics believe it or not >> it's it's Listen I know that there's all this hoopla on where the black podcast quote unquote space originated, XYZ Elemento P >> combat and how he even had the idea of getting this network of people to to magnify and amplify black voices in a time where podcast was it's talk radio.

[00:14:50]We remember growing up nobody wanted to hear people talk. It's it wasn't something that we even thought like was a thing. We want to listen to music. We want to listen to the radio. even DJs like we want maybe we'll have have them talk in between songs but where the music at. And so to know that people were ready to lock in to us regular non-ceelebrity people talking for long extended periods of time that's all to combat Jack. But yeah I think what Chris Marorrow uh Charlemagne because he was a part of that as well a king what they were able to build out the gate with with Reggie was incredible.

[00:15:24]>> Yeah I remember I think I I could probably dig it up. I got some cold emails. I think I said to Chris Moore back in the day like, "Hey man, if you ever need somebody help cuz I was doing tech back then, right?" I was like, "I can I can build the website. I can do all this stuff for you." So, I'm sure I got some cold emails in there. You know, Chris, if you see this, holl at your boy, man. But look, you know, as evolved now, you're starting to do things.

[00:15:43]You're starting to make money. You're starting to like build this whole brand around it. I think one of the things you said was, you know, what you realize now is as a black podcaster, you got to do a million things to make, you know, seven 17 things to make a million dollars, whereas white podcasters don't have that same thing. Like, what do you mean when you say that?

[00:15:58]>> Well, here's the thing, too, right?

[00:15:59]Numbers, I'm a numbers person.

[00:16:01]Absolutely.

[00:16:02]>> And so, when we even think about us as a people within this country, right, 13%.

[00:16:08]So the the white audience is going to be larger, greater, and I think comparison is the thief of joy. So oftent times when we look at these white podcasts and they're getting these deals, we have to understand their market share of listeners is vastly greater. Right? So where I can be proud that ooh, you know, early on, damn, we're getting, you know, we're hitting 5 10 million downloads in a year.

[00:16:36]a call her daddy at one point was getting a million a week, >> right?

[00:16:41]>> A week. Okay. And also then you have advertisers that are freely going to go to a white woman talking the same way we are, but oh, we've been shunned greatly with the amount of money we've been able to not see because of our content as well. But that's the other thing, right?

[00:17:01]Then when you're going into ads, is this content brand safe?

[00:17:05]>> Yeah. And I think a lot of pods where we go in and we just give it up because we're giving it up. We have to realize like we're we may not align with brands.

[00:17:13]Um and so yeah, when it comes to us, have you seen the podcast on Netflix?

[00:17:18]>> Yeah. How they've started doing those deals on there.

[00:17:21]Now, if you want to see the vast difference on how we have to be so much better and get so much less, when I went on to Netflix and as soon as they did that deal, I went and looked at these goddamn podcasts.

[00:17:36]These white people are using AirPods as mics, no mics in front of them, >> blurry ass webcams, still doing virtually remote things. Like, >> they don't have their own sets. They don't, you know, and there are some that do, but I'm like, "Oh, wow." And this was able to get a Netflix deal. This was able to be magnified on 4K, right? This was and then when you look at a lot of the black podcast, even these beginner podcast in studio, cutting up clips, multi-angle shots, like everyone talking into a microphone, it's like we have to show up the same way we have to show up in the workplace on time, better than everyone, delivering a higher quality and seeing so much less money. And also, unfortunately, getting less views and working our way into even having our own community support us. Yeah. Because then unfortunately we it's that our own podcast like space doesn't necessarily always support each other. We always want to know who the best. There's gatekeeping in terms of what people are making moneywise and unfortunately it's keeping us down which is why I love that we have something like the Black Effect Festival now and Charlemagne like constantly amplifying us in the podcast space. But yeah, I just feel like we have to be 10 times better and we don't necessarily get to see the same amount of money.

[00:18:53]>> Yeah. So, so tell the people again like you you've kind of been on the other side now. Let's kind of break down some of the economics of the how we make money because that's what I'm saying.

[00:19:01]Everybody's got a podcast and and you know there's there's different, you know, levels of them. You know what I mean? But like tell people just in general like what are some of the main monetization channels that you all use for your podcast?

[00:19:11]>> First off, diversify, diversify, diversify, diversify. Uh, everyone immediately wants to go to a network.

[00:19:17]Mhm.

[00:19:19]>> Now, now mind you, yes, both of my shows are on a network now. I can say that now.

[00:19:25]However, people are um not privy to what they're actually getting when they go on a network. They automatically assume this network is going to market me, amplify me, bring me all this opportunity, help me with guests, give me a studio, help with production. None of that. They are You are licensing your content to allow them to sell ads. Mhm.

[00:19:44]>> You are still responsible for all of your expenses, your editing, your studio, your production, your pre, your post, booking guest. You might get a little bit of help if you ask for it.

[00:19:53]Not guaranteed. So, what you are doing when you sign to a network, you are only offering them exclusivity to sell into your show. Now, of course, that's based on CPM. Your numbers matter. All of those things, right? So, you could get a network deal one of two ways. You could do a rev share split or you could do what they call a MG, which is nothing more than an advance that you owe all the way back.

[00:20:16]>> They're not giving those out anymore.

[00:20:18]Y'all can thank Kim Kardashian. Y'all could thank [ __ ] the No, Michelle got her pod now. But there's just a lot of celebrities that came in, took like >> Yeah.

[00:20:28]>> seven figure [ __ ] deals and never got damn released. So, put a lot of these uh networks into like, oh [ __ ] we don't know how to do an ROI. And so there's a network room there. There's a network space. That's one. Build your audience.

[00:20:45]And this is not an ad, but if you have an audience that's faithful and likes your goddamn content, they will support you. Get a Patreon. Patreon is a subscription. You can't go wrong with subscriptions. And luckily, we are all now brainwashed to pay $5 a month and not even see it leave our accounts because we're paying so many goddamn subscriptions. So, Patreon first. We still to this day make a huge chunk on our We make a quarter mill a year just on Patreon.

[00:21:14]>> That's amazing.

[00:21:15]>> Just on Patreon. So, there's Patreon.

[00:21:18]Then, of course, you you have the live show element. Now, live shows, just know you're going to start off small. Figure out a way to get a space. Look in your local market. Get a space. You could sell tickets. Eventbrite. Do it like that. That's you marketing, right?

[00:21:35]Uh, merch is tricky. Merch, you could do capsules. Merch, you're not going to see a lot of money.

[00:21:39]>> Yeah, >> merch is goddamn expensive. Merch, you're not going to see a lot of money.

[00:21:43]However, merch is another avenue. If you're able to get those designs and make a demand for your merch, that is a possibility as well. Um, and then outside of that, there's so many opportunities now for you as a personality. So, like through being a podcaster, I hosted a show on MTV. I've done things with Revolt. I get booked for conferences and festivals and we've done Roots Picnic, One Musicfest and so we've been able to get other deals from that and then again you go beyond that.

[00:22:13]There's so many podcasts who have leveraged television shows uh we're now authors. So Charlemagne brought us into Black Privilege Publishing where we made a book. Um and the grind never stops. So and those are all separate buckets. So, I would say the top three though, Patreon, ads into your podcast, >> um, and live shows with an asterisk for YouTube.

[00:22:41]>> Yeah. I think I think people automatically assume just, you know, it's ads, it's ads, and like you said, the ability to actually directly monetize your >> get those is hard.

[00:22:48]>> It's hard.

[00:22:49]>> It's hard. And you're playing a middleman, right? Or you have to get a middleman. So, even if you're on a network and say you do a rev share split, rev share is like, okay, say they're able to bring in $10,000 to your pod. Well, oftentimes revshare splits start at like 50/50.

[00:23:05]>> Mhm.

[00:23:05]>> You might be able to negotiate 7030, 6040, whatever. But it's kind of 5050.

[00:23:12]So, out of a $10,000 ad buy, that's $5,000 that yes, you can claim. However, again, they're only you're licensing them to sell into your show. Out of that $5,000, what are your expenses?

[00:23:26]>> Yeah.

[00:23:27]>> And that's the thing. Video is not cheap anymore. Audio, like getting into a studio with audio and visuals, then you have clip editors. Then you have someone to cut the full thing. You have YouTube people. There's literally a team of anywhere between three to seven people on any given show that has to get paid.

[00:23:46]And so, that's the thing. Everyone gets paid before you get paid, >> right? I saw a thing. Everyone >> I saw a thing where one of the big streamers said he spends, you know, hundreds of thousand dollars a month just on clippers.

[00:23:57]>> On clippers, >> right?

[00:23:59]>> And so that's the thing, too. Like, yeah, I could sit here and say, "Oh, we bring in, you know, a million dollars in a year." Yeah. Well, out of that million, there's me and another business partner that are splitting 50/50, but we have a team at any given time, probably about 10 to 12 people that are on salaries that, you know, sometimes when we travel, we have to bring people in.

[00:24:20]If we go on tour, we're adding to the team. And so, out of a million dollars, probably 400 grand goes to salaries.

[00:24:27]>> Yeah.

[00:24:29]>> And then me and Weezy get to eat after that. And then I get to eat after that.

[00:24:34]But I was just talking to my uh accountant yesterday about that. I was like, "Oh my god, I feel like an athlete right now." I feel like right now I'm getting paid quarterly and so I'm having to budget every three months.

[00:24:44]>> I mean, there's people that have to budget every two weeks, every week. And that becomes difficult. Imagine knowing that you have to stretch not only this money for three months, I have three rents. I have a team that gets paid. And so everyone gets paid before I know if I could even get to take a vacation.

[00:25:01]>> Yeah. because you know so it's it's it's a lot. It's a lot and I see why you know some people get behind on taxes and things like that because it becomes like we weren't taught this right. I think we are a generation when I say we I would say millennials.

[00:25:18]>> Um and even some of like I don't think like Joe and Cam they old [ __ ] so I don't think they're millennials. I think they the other generation, but this is like the first time we're seeing so many self-made entrepreneurs where we don't have the the knowledge because our parents didn't do it. Our parents went to work.

[00:25:39]>> Yeah.

[00:25:39]>> Our parents worked until they were ready to retire. They about to get social security. We not even going to see that.

[00:25:44]So, we're now in a place where uh as entrepreneurs, we're figuring it out as we go and there's no blueprint to this.

[00:25:51]>> Yeah. I mean, we're first generation.

[00:25:52]Yes. And I think again, a lot of people forget that, right? Like Anybody you see with money right now probably just got some money.

[00:25:58]>> Just got it. Just got it.

[00:26:00]>> This is >> And now trying to figure out how to keep it.

[00:26:02]>> And trying to figure out how to keep it.

[00:26:03]Like they their parents didn't know what to tell them to do. Yep. They didn't get it from their great great grandfather dying and leaving them a trust. We talk about get a trust. It's like I don't even know I needed a tr you know what I mean? Like these are things that people just kind of coming up with.

[00:26:14]>> One thing I would ask is like, >> you know, if if you had to start over with everything, you know, now like building an audience is what all this kind of comes down to.

[00:26:21]>> Like what advice would you give the podcasters that want to build an audience? Because again, like you know, there's a lot of eyeballs out there, there's a lot of ears out there, you know what I mean? Um, what kind of tips should you give people to build an audience and what what should they be aiming for for audience size to be able to actually monetize? Like I was watching something with um >> Ian from uh Joe Buddton podcast, >> uh, Schwarzman.

[00:26:39]>> Yeah. And he was talking about talking about how this works. He was talking about the whole Patreon thing, but I'm like, well, that works. So Joe Button get a billion downloads a day.

[00:26:47]>> Joe Button had a 20 year career before he sat in front of a microphone, >> right?

[00:26:51]>> So he built up a fan base prior to that.

[00:26:54]It's so much different. Again, me and Whezzy, she worked at [ __ ] T-Mobile.

[00:26:58]I was at EY. Like, how do people across the country find out who we are? We weren't no goddamn celebrities. I was on Twitter. We like we wasn't doing [ __ ] >> Um, and so for me, it's just very important a to have your own opinion. I think there's an echo chamber of things happening right now. There's a lot of regurgitation of people just saying what a lot of other people are saying. No one wants to hear that. No one wants to hear the same thoughts across five different podcast during the week. So have an opinion that is truly yours and then put it out there and don't switch up on who you are cuz baby, listen, I know a lot of y'all hate my opinions, okay? But they mine, right?

[00:27:47]And they come from my upbringing, my family, my my circle, my life experiences, and my own thoughts. And are they popular? Not really.

[00:27:57]>> But I stand on it. And so I think people like to see me across from Whezzy, me across from John A. King, me across from any other podcaster and really like having a difference of opinion because what is freedom of speech if we can't share those opinions? And so for me, if you want to grow that audience, there's a level of relatability, but you also have to give them something that they're not getting. Like you have to otherwise like if they're already listening to Joe, they're all already listening to EIL, if they're already listening to Cam and Mace, you have sports, current events, financial literacy, right? If you are in any of those categories, what makes your show different than theirs?

[00:28:36]>> And if we're all talking about the same [ __ ] how do you approach those topics differently? And you have to create a different a different listening experience or view viewing experience for for you know the audience.

[00:28:47]>> Yeah. You got to find those things that that really kind of pull people in.

[00:28:50]>> And then you have to be clear of who your audience is. That's the other thing. People want to go in and be like, I want all black people from 18 to 35 listening to me.

[00:29:00]>> No, that's not what it is. What is your exact target demo? Are they the working class? Are they middle middle class? Do they like sports? Do they have children?

[00:29:09]Are they single? Are they dating? Are they navigating something? Who is your target demo? And then figure out a way to get in front of them by going on other podcasts that you think are like yours. Getting, you know, either buying uh ads on Facebook, making sure that you're titling will will capture that type of audience that's looking for that. You know what I mean? If it's self-help, make sure that you are touching base with those platforms that you can grab from their audience to come and listen to you. And then it's retention. And you don't get retention without consistency.

[00:29:41]>> Baby, if you gonna drop on Mondays, >> think you drop on >> you drop on Mondays for the rest of your life, >> right?

[00:29:47]>> No breaks, no seasons, baby. If you commit to podcasting to where you want this to make money, to where you actually care about growing an audience, consistency is the most important thing. You think you gonna take a week off, they're gonna find another podcast in your place and then you might lose a percentage of your listeners because now they can't depend on you.

[00:30:08]>> We could barely depend or trust the people we sleeping with. Baby, what they got to be able to trust is you is going to drop your podcast on the day you said you going to drop it every goddamn week for the rest of your life. Period.

[00:30:22]>> The thing I love you said too is is you got to have an opinion and stand on it.

[00:30:26]>> Stand on it. And you know, I think it's in especially in the internet world right now where everybody where everything got a comment, everybody has an opinion, people get scared to put their stuff out there. People are going to disagree with you, but that's okay because like it's your opinion. Like when it comes to kind of identifying and finding your voice, how did you how did you figure out what your voice was and what you really want to stand for?

[00:30:43]>> Do I need to call some teachers from elementary school? I mean, it I've been me forever. Um, I'm opinionated. I speak loud. Um, I curse a lot. I'm working on that. Um, for me, I I read, I take in knowledge. I was a blogger uh since 2009. So, I used to have a sports blog.

[00:31:05]I think my senior year of high school is when Twitter >> when I joined Twitter, April of 2009.

[00:31:11]And so, always just being in a space where I'm having conversations. If I'm at a table, if I'm in a room, I'm having conversations. I'm hearing about other other lives. I've lived overseas. I travel abroad a lot. I mean, for me, it's taking in life experiences and just sharing them. So, for me, my opinion literally comes from my life experiences. And I don't have conversations to convince you to agree with me. You got your opinion. We can agree to disagree. Like, and that's the thing. I think a lot of us try to uh influence people to think the way we think. And if people think differently than us, then they're wrong and we're right. I don't believe in right and wrong. You can think the way you think.

[00:31:52]Heard you. I'm gonna think the way I think and I'm gonna stand on it. Yeah.

[00:31:56]And when we have conversations, I think it's just important to, hey, this is my point of view. This is yours respectfully. I hear you. We can agree to disagree. And that's been like my thing recently because it used to be like, bro, you're not going to you're not going to change my mind during a podcast episode.

[00:32:13]And if months or years later I changed my mind, I I'll admit, okay, I have a difference of opinion now. But yeah, for me, I just like healthy conversation and discourse. What do you What do you believe about the whole podcast content creator lane that a lot of people aren't ready to hear yet?

[00:32:28]>> Oh, that some of y'all suck. Like, y'all not even that good. Nobody cares about what you got to say, honestly. Um, I think that's the other thing. Like, everyone thinks they're built for a microphone.

[00:32:42]Um, no. And then, you know what? Here's here's the one thing I've I've been constantly saying.

[00:32:49]Podcasting while yes can be a hobby. If you are doing this to make money down the line to create a business out of if you start this with a friend you will lose the friend the business or both.

[00:33:07]Period.

[00:33:09]You are not going to remain friends.

[00:33:11]Money gets difficult and then when you are with a friend where now you have to work and split responsibilities and y'all started this together. So, it started 50/50, but you realize you're doing 90% of the work, they're doing 10.

[00:33:23]But when the money starts coming in, you got to split it.

[00:33:26]>> Mhm.

[00:33:28]>> Resentment builds really fast. Work ethics are not equal. Nothing is 50/50 in life. I don't I hate that we keep having 50-50 conversations. And so, if you start a pod with friends, be prepared to lose the friendship, the pod, or both.

[00:33:47]>> And that is inevitable.

[00:33:49]INEVITABLE. And if you don't believe me, look over the last 15 years of people doing pods who started together and how many iterations have happened, how many people quit, how many pods are no longer here because the co-host broke up, how many [ __ ] I'm I'm living proof. I'm one of them. You know what I mean? Like, it's difficult. And when you start getting a fan base, when you start being then you're dealing with ego and you're dealing with having to pay taxes. you're dealing with literal lit your taxes are and and having to pay that are impacting your personal life.

[00:34:22]>> Like it's a thing. So for me too, I love how people are like, "Nah, we going to be friends forever." Okay.

[00:34:29]>> And then you better get ready for an Oscar that we don't get because the acting that you have to do then to pod with someone that you're not cool with at the time is difficult. Again, speaking from the horse's mouth, me and Weezy are great now. Oh my god, why did it take almost 10 years?

[00:34:46]We literally just text each other the other day and we're like, we were doing this much recording while we hated each other. Holy [ __ ] how our mental health? What the [ __ ] It was so hard. And so many people do that. They laugh and joke on the mic and you won't see them hanging out ever, you know? And so that's just the other thing. I don't think people are willing to hear that. I think they think, "Ooh, I'm going to have the pod with my friend and my bestie and we're going to be great." No, it's inevitable. You will end the pod or lose your friendship or both.

[00:35:20]>> Business is hard.

[00:35:21]>> It's hard. And it's even harder when personal is involved, >> right?

[00:35:26]>> It's even harder. It clouds judgment.

[00:35:29]You feel like you're doing something because that's your friend when really you need to be like, "So, [ __ ] you just gonna just disrespect my time and show up late?"

[00:35:37]Wait, why are you buying groceries out of the business account? Like, you're you're literally checking like what's happening here? But yeah, business is hard. And again, we're all used to signing our little W4 form, getting our W2 at the end, taxes are taken out, healthc care is covered. Here's my schedule. I go in, I I check out, that's it. No, this podcasting [ __ ] is 258.

[00:36:02]You're constantly talking to teams.

[00:36:04]You're constantly looking at clips, getting edits, speaking of guests, booking studios. It's a non-stop job.

[00:36:10]So, yeah, I I quit a very strenuous uh work schedule to do double. But for myself, so yay, I get to pick my own schedule.

[00:36:19]>> Yeah, that's what it is. Again, everybody talks about entrepreneurship and oh, you know, you just see the oh, you can do this and the travel. It's like, hold on a second, >> hold on, hold on a second, >> hold on.

[00:36:27]>> It's a lot of work that has to happen.

[00:36:29]>> Like, people are like, oh my god, you're always on a flight. A lot of it's for work. So much so to where over the last two years, my joy of traveling and vacation has has dissipated.

[00:36:42]I don't want to get on a plane when I don't have to work. I just want to sleep in my goddamn house and enjoy my rent and be with my cat. And so, yeah, like even knowing like the joys of traveling and vacation are kind of gone right now because I'm constantly on a flight for for work is just like, okay, this is one of those things I wasn't expecting, but here we are. What's it like? You know, this is something now, you know, again, butternops, we doing all right, but we not we not on y'all level now. But what what has been interesting to me is starting to get recognized more. What's been interesting to me is I'm out of town. Like I was out of town in Florida a couple weeks ago and this lady walked up. She was like, >> I've seen you somewhere before. Like, don't you have a podcast or something?

[00:37:21]Like what's that part like? Because again, I think the >> wait till it starts happening in other countries.

[00:37:25]>> Well, yeah, but just the process of becoming a public figure like how do you manage that? Like and how does how do you manage that from a mental health standpoint and just like an awareness because you can't do things that you normally used to do the way you used to do them because now it's like yeah everybody see everybody got a camera on their phone like how have you managed that process because I don't think a lot of people talk about that part either.

[00:37:41]>> Um my social battery and I don't know if it's age or this podcast [ __ ] is is like it's broken. I don't know. Steve Jobs got to come and get me a new one. He got to come resurrect himself and get me a new social battery. Okay. Um it's hard.

[00:37:57]I think mentally the hardest part is the internet, which sucks because everyone's like, "Oh my god, just don't read the comments." That is not possible. I am, first off, all my work is on my phone, right? I have emails. I'm getting people in my DMs. I'm booking guests. I'm constantly looking and doing research.

[00:38:14]So, I'm constantly on there. Everything is now collaborated with my personal page. Mhm.

[00:38:19]>> So all of my engagement I'm reading, but it's attached to also my platforms and my very strong opinions that people don't agree with. Then you have YouTube.

[00:38:28]Then you have just people who don't know you, don't support you saying the most foul things that they can possibly think of because they just disagree with you.

[00:38:36]And so for me, I think that that's been that's been really hard. The the comments have have been difficult probably more than I would have ever thought. Um, but for me, meeting the people whose lives I've changed make up for it. So, when we go on the road, when we have live shows, when I do book signings, when I'm just out and I'm getting a drink sent to the table, cuz they're just like, I love you. I'm a fan. Or when the bartender knows me, or you know, to me, it's like, okay, this feels good because there's there's more love in the real world than the hate online.

[00:39:12]>> Yeah.

[00:39:12]>> And I just have to keep reminding myself that. But the mental aspect of it is really hard. Like they talk about my parents, they talk about me and my looks. And as a woman, like my looks, my weight, like even down to how I how I talk. My natural voice is a problem to people. And it becomes like, damn, I like it's hard not to internalize some of those things and feel a way about them, you know? Um, so that's something I'm working on in therapy, uh, for sure.

[00:39:41]And again, I started this when I was 26.

[00:39:44]I'll be 36 this year. That is night and day. For anyone who's went through school, who's changed careers, who's had babies, that 10ear span between 26 and 30, 36, you change into so many different people across that time. You enter your 30s. You maybe you're seeing more money. You become a parent. you you just really evolve so much between that decade that I've been doing that in front of the world and it's like okay [ __ ] I wish you would keep bringing up something I said when I was 27 WHAT I DIDN'T KNOW NO BETTER but they hold you to those opinions they hold you to who you were 10 years ago and so it's like you know it's a lot to get through and I think so for anyone getting into this space have a therapist have a really good friend circle, a a system of people that know you, that you can lean on, that can affirm you and support you because the internet, even though that's where you going to get your views and your listens, that is going to be the place that destroys you at the same time.

[00:40:54]>> Yeah. I mean, it's look, I I've I've seen the same thing even when I started Butter, right? Like it blew it grew into a platform and there was a good probably two-year period where I literally stopped reading comments. I just couldn't.

[00:41:04]>> How How did you do it?

[00:41:05]>> I I just I literally I couldn't do I couldn't >> How did you just not read comments? I don't believe you went two years without reading comments.

[00:41:11]>> I couldn't look. I just I couldn't like I just barely cuz >> So you stopped using a phone. I don't believe you.

[00:41:17]>> Everything was so negative.

[00:41:18]>> Everything.

[00:41:19]>> Everything is so negative. It's like y'all don't have nothing nice to say.

[00:41:22]>> Never. Never.

[00:41:24]>> And YouTube is probably one of the crulest platforms. Oh, absolutely.

[00:41:27]>> And I don't know why they so goddamn mean over there. Maybe because they don't have an avatar or a profile and you don't really know who they are. they can just create account and watch and talk [ __ ] It's terrible.

[00:41:37]>> I I always say one of the worst things that happened to the internet is not necessarily just the addition of comments, but the ability to like and reply to comments because now it's like a competition.

[00:41:46]>> No. Like >> do you know I see four weeks people arguing with strangers because all they do is they're full-blown dissertations >> and I'm seeing that. And so then I'm seeing them attack each other. I'm seeing them call each other names and them and it's just like whoa. It's it's just a lot of negativity. So, you definitely have to find some sort of positivity in your life. You have to find somewhere that you can disconnect and find peace. And you have to find even though this could be a hobby, a job, something that you love, art, you have to find some sort of art outside of creating when you're a podcaster. You have to find something that still fuels you and drives you and makes you happy.

[00:42:26]Whether it's a [ __ ] paint and sip, I don't know. But you have to get out of this space sometimes because you have to find something that you genuinely love.

[00:42:34]>> Absolutely. Now that's the crazy part.

[00:42:36]What have been some of the moments that you really enjoyed? Like was there a moment not necessarily like a we made it moment, but like was there some spec specific moments that like really jumped out where you were like, "Oh yeah, this is dope. I like this.

[00:42:46]>> This is dope. I like this. I'll share."

[00:42:49]So last year we got one of the biggest checks we'd ever get gotten before. Uh it was nice.

[00:42:55]>> Okay.

[00:42:55]>> It was very nice. Um, and shout out to Essencefest. And so we had to do soundcheck because we had an onstage moment. And our onstage moment was right after Baby Face and before Maxwell where, you know, we talked about just Essence Weekend, New Orleans.

[00:43:19]Um, but we had to do soundcheck for that. Well, our sound check happened to be right after Lauren Hill and so the entire dome is empty in New Orleans and we get to watch the entire Lauren Hill set.

[00:43:39]>> Oh, that's >> just us.

[00:43:40]>> Yeah. in a booth like the miseducation of Lauren Hill live her directing the band her doing all her I was like [ __ ] I got my own personal Lauren Hill concert now you know she'd be late so I was like [ __ ] I don't ever got to wait I got this and I thought that that was just like a super dope moment that was like not me performing not really anything I was just waiting to do soundcheck and I was like oh wow and then like I said to be able to go on stage following a baby face and introducing Maxwell. It's like what the this is this is life. This is crazy. Um I think also making the New York Times bestseller list.

[00:44:21]>> Mhm.

[00:44:22]>> We didn't think it was going to happen.

[00:44:24]Literally got the call. They're like there's like seven people online, mind you. Charlemagne and he's he's uh on a flight somewhere. Whezzy's taking a nap.

[00:44:33]So it's just me and Tempest uh our co-author. And I'm like, "Bitch, why are there seven? Who are why do we need to get on Zoom right now? Weez is sleeping.

[00:44:41]Can't get a hold of her. Charlamagne out. So tell me." And they're like, "You made the list." And when I said just started breaking down crying because that was one of the hardest processes that we've had to do, I think, as creatives. We had to be really vulnerable. I did therapy sessions to to write those stories. And we got zero, I would say zero kind of support >> in terms of traditional media telling us no. We were met with so many nos. We were met with people feeling like, well, this book has sex in it. Two black girls, like zero uh kind of thoughts that we would make this list, that we would sell the books to do it, that we would make the impact. We didn't do any traditional media. And it was me and Weezy like, "Bro, we have to do this."

[00:45:26]We hired a PR company. That That's the biggest sham if y'all want to know. That's the biggest sham. I don't know how many publicists you've had up here.

[00:45:38]They are robbers. They are scammers.

[00:45:42]They take your money to send emails and hope that people respond. You are paying thousands of dollars a month for someone to cold call emails for you.

[00:45:58]Trust me, I've been I've been >> and multiple times and I'm like, "Oh, it does." No, it's just all the same. Like, that is it's it's it's uh what you call it? It's a it's a Ponzi scheme all over again.

[00:46:11]>> Like, holy, y'all remember Mary Kay? Y'all, however, you spend your own money and you don't get a pink Cadillac at the end. Okay? But all your money goes to emails that may or may not be responded to, that may or may not land you in any publication, that may or may not get you any guests or any nothing. Um, but yeah, making the New York Times bestseller list without the support and help or spending a lot of money that I wish we got back, you know. Yeah.

[00:46:39]>> Tell me about Power and IP.

[00:46:40]>> Power and IP, that's my baby. That's my baby. That's right now me and Tempest.

[00:46:45]So Tempest is my co-author. Um, for me it is important to again not only gatekeep but create this incubator system. I've not only you know clearly been attached to Charlemagne at the hip for years during my career. I've also produced with Will Packer. I have a lot of friends now within the television and film space. I'm actually working on one right now. Okay. Uh pitching as well a non-scripted show. Um getting into that.

[00:47:13]And so as someone who has done production on shows where I did not um you know I wasn't talent I've also uh anard I like to say can afford therapy which is now a webbby award-winning podcast um that's still independent but I put those three wonderful people together. Shout out to Zavonet and Josh.

[00:47:36]They've been doing their thing with Can't Afford Therapy. I've been on this space of okay I know the system. I love to create processes. I have the resources and teams. So, what power and IP is is essentially a one-stop shop whether you want to do podcasting, book, write a book, or television and film.

[00:47:55]And so, me and Tempest X will help you with whatever you need your help with.

[00:47:59]So, it could be as as as minimal as a one-on-one call to help you come up with your segments, your structure, helping you get your LLC because this is all a business. You need all of that. It could be script writing, creating a deck, pitching. And so for the for the ideas that we do like, essentially what we plan to do with this is if we like the idea, you get to keep IP, but let us get you in front of the networks. Let us get you in front of uh a Lil, a Marlon Wes, or you know, a Will Packer, uh someone that we know and essentially work in tandem is kind of like your agent.

[00:48:36]>> Yeah. Because what a WME does, what a CAA does, what all these agencies do is they're the middleman to bring you to their contacts and they take their 10%.

[00:48:46]>> But then sometimes they want they want a lot on the back end. I want to make sure anyone that I work with, you keep your IP. I don't want to own any of your [ __ ] By the way, I've already dealt with that, too. Someone wanting to keep my [ __ ] in perpetuity and the numbers weren't weren't mathing. And so in leaving someone, I had to pay in perpetuity.

[00:49:05]money. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. So like that seven figure deal y'all saw Oh yeah.

[00:49:12]Somebody got uh their percentage every quarter. Every quarter.

[00:49:18]>> Yeah.

[00:49:19]>> In perpetuity. So had that show kept going, he was constantly going to have to get the information of what the pod was doing, what we were spending, what we were making, profiting. Then he was eating his little what do you get? I want to say 25%.

[00:49:33]in perpetu perpetuity means forever for those >> that's what I said forever. So he felt that he, you know, started the show and the pod and and mind you, it was in perpetuity of anything that me and her did together. So it was just like, yeah, I'm good. I'm good. So for me, it's really important that anyone getting into a deal um retains ownership of of what they create, of their vision, of of their IP. Uh and so there's power in IP.

[00:50:04]Again, horrible decisions from the name down to the pod, the show, the book, everything we own. And so knowing that we get to eat off that forever is important. Um, and I think people with great ideas should be able to keep their ideas.

[00:50:22]>> No, that's >> um, and so for me it's like, okay, black creatives, y'all don't How do I get into this space? Where are resources? No one I know is doing this. What do I do? I'm here. So, powernip.com.

[00:50:36]>> No, no, that's amazing. And that's important work and it needs to exist.

[00:50:40]And >> thank you.

[00:50:41]>> I appreciate you pulling up to kind of talk about this stuff. Before we get out of here, I just got to ask one last question. Right.

[00:50:45]>> Oh my god. What? What question?

[00:50:48]>> Why? Why Atlanta? Like what what brought you to Atlanta? You were in New York.

[00:50:51]That's everybody think everybody New York is the multimedia. Like why Atlanta?

[00:50:55]>> It is. First off, okay, you want the the Okay, so the funny joke when people are like, why did you move to Atlanta? I tell them because I wanted a closet.

[00:51:08]So, um, New York, what I realized in living there 13 years and seeing more money than I than I ever thought I would see in my life, a lot of it was like, okay, I don't know if I'm seeing a lot of my money. Um, and so right before we dropped the book, we had a strenuous schedule to where I was like, okay, I'm not going to be able to really be home that much. Also, at the time, my lease was coming up. So, I was like, "Okay, I want a two-bedroom, but I wanted two-bedroom so that that second bedroom could be a closet because New York, you ain't got no closets."

[00:51:47]>> Um, and at the time in the areas I wanted to live, I there was no twobedrooms under like five grand. And I was just like, I'm not even going to be home.

[00:51:54]>> Um, I I also did go to high school here in Atlanta. I went to Lakeside.

[00:51:58]>> Okay.

[00:51:59]>> Uh, moved here again after graduating high school. So, this is now my third time in Atlanta. Um, also my best friend is here, so I figured, you know what?

[00:52:08]I'm entering a new space era. There's nothing keeping me in New York. And [ __ ] you have enough money to where if you hate Atlanta, you can always move back.

[00:52:16]So, again, I have a cat. And so, I was like, you can move. It's it's it's okay.

[00:52:24]You run your business. You can fly back and forth, which is what I've been doing now for about a year and a half. And it works for me. Like even my co-host, she still has a base in New York. We both still have a base in New York, but she just bought a home in LA. I gotta go to LA next week. Like, so, and she comes to Atlanta. So, we just make it work. And for me, I just wanted to see more money, more bang for my buck.

[00:52:45]>> And then I just have a lot of friends here, people who have known me for a long time. And so, my support system here is really strong with people that knew me before I was Mandy B the podcaster. They know me as the wild girl.

[00:52:59]But like people that's literally known me since I was 16, 17, 18 years old and now they're all also industry adjacent doing their thing and I just love it.

[00:53:08]>> Well, >> but yeah. Oh, and radio. But that's a whole another conversation.

[00:53:12]>> Whole another conversation.

[00:53:12]>> Well, you know what? We we we happy to have you out here. Appreciate it. And thank you so much for coming through and and being honest and vulnerable and and not gatekeeping, giving people information they need >> and won't listen. I'll be showing private statements, contracts. You better bust them in the head for that money. They got it. They got it. And whatever they offer you, never take the first offer. Go back, negotiate, and add your text.

[00:53:37]>> That's what I'm talking about. Look, this this has been an amazing conversation. Before we get out of here, >> you've been saying that like four times.

[00:53:42]Before we get out of Before we get out of >> No, we wrapping it up. Give people give people all the things. How can they How can they find you? How can they get in contact and get power out? Give them all the things.

[00:53:51]>> Yes. Um, so if you are a creator um, looking to get into podcasting, television, and film, or writing a book, head on over to powernip.com.

[00:54:03]Um, you can read the about section, uh, the about me section where you could see what Tempest and I have both done. But there's tears. Uh, there's a form if you want to inquire about how you can work with us. That's powernip.com.

[00:54:14]Then, of course, I talk a lot if you haven't been able to tell from this interview. Um, and you can actually catch me four times a week um, on the pod. So on Mondays I drop decisions decisions, Tuesdays and Fridays is selective ignorance and both platforms also are on Patreon. Um, I also drop on Wednesdays for decisions decisions. And then I am also currently if you are Atlanta based every Saturday from 6:00 to 8 off the clock it is on hot 1079.

[00:54:44]You can catch me and my DJ DJ Jazzy T.

[00:54:46]And then also, I'm looking at the date.

[00:54:49]June 9th is our one-year anniversary of our New York Times best-selling book, No Holes Barred, a dual manifesto of sexual exploration and power. It is available on Audible, and we did read that.

[00:55:03]However, our paperback drops, okay, um on June 9th. So, if you are someone that don't like to cover hard coverver books and y'all just you don't like to carry it, it's heavy. Our paperback drops on Tuesday, June the 9th. Um, when does this come out?

[00:55:20]>> We'll make sure it comes out before June the 9th. Don't worry.

[00:55:22]>> Okay. And if there are tickets left, we will be at Sony Hall in New York City for a one night only live show cuz y'all aren't getting us on tour anymore. It's a lot, but we are doing some pop-up shows. So June 9th at Sony Hall, if there's tickets available, you can catch Weezy and I on stage one night only with some of your favorite Kingsters and bringing the book as well to life. So go and get tickets at Sony Hall.

[00:55:46]>> That's what's up, man. Well, look, Manny, so much. Thank you so much for pulling up. This has been amazing.

[00:55:51]>> This is great. This is great.

[00:55:53]>> And that's it, y'all. That's the pot. We out. Peace.