Tiffany Cross on Her New Book, Cable News and Criticism of Abby Phillip

Added: 2026-05-12

[00:00:01]That's you talking about former MSNBC president Rashidita Jones who made history when she uh became the president of MSNBC and she's now been I don't know how to say it. She's no longer working there anymore. Uh so I bring this up Tiffany and you go more into this chapter. It's a really strong chapter because we see this a lot and then we see people trying to get their foot back in. You know, the Candace Owens years ago was Amarosa, you know, all this kind of stuff.

[00:00:35]>> So, I'm curious to know what did you think when she was no longer at MSNBC?

[00:00:43]>> Did you think the chicken's coming home to roost or was there any sympathy for her as well because she is a black woman? What what were your thoughts?

[00:00:52]>> Well, you know, in in the book, I tried to just say here's what happened. And I'm sharing that story because I'm not alone. You know, there are nearly 400,000 black women who also um were fired certainly for different reasons um and at the hands of people uh perhaps who didn't uh look like us. But, you know, with Rashida, I felt um you know, there can be a splinter among us. And for those of us who it's like what are we celebrating when we celebrate? So she became the president of MSNBC and I took great pride in that. I was honored to have a show on the network when a black woman was tapped to lead it. But it did what with everything happened. It did uh it incited in me a question. What are we celebrating when women ascend to lead the empire? Um, are we celebrating one of us becoming one of them or are we celebrating a woman who is leading to empire to disrupt it and make for a more level playing field? When I meet people who do black outreach, I always ask, "What is your job? Is your job to protect this company from the black community? Is your job to sell this product to the black community? Is your job uh to smooth the edges when the black community is mad? Are you going out there being a human shield for them?

[00:02:11]Or is your job to carry the interest of black people um you know within the walls within the confines of this community um within this company to disrupt um what is happening uh in this community. And so I um I I take that uh concept and um you know explore it with the way that she handled my show. And I think there can be envy. There can be um a challenge when um you know if you have there there's almost envy that somebody else is upset that you are bucking a system that they yielded to. And that's what it very much felt like in our relationship that she was, you know, kind of envious like who like who is who is that black woman up there on that horse, you know? Um, and so when she lost her job, I do try to meet her with a little bit of grace because she too is a victim of this system. Um, and so, you know, like she it just penetrated her in a different way. It did not penetrate me. You know, I didn't gain this platform to stand there and be, you know, center white people's comfort. I didn't gain this platform to hope one day they would let me host the Today Show and do some polite cooking segments and tell you what the best holiday gifts are. I gained this platform to bear witness on behalf of my people as a journalist um and to speak a truth that centered us that reflected back our lived experience. And I don't think that was ever her interest. Um and so I I just tell the story of what happened and so when I mean this is kind of my point like you want to be the magic for white folks but that don't ever pay off because at some point they will real you are expendable. You are no more safe than me. So, if you're in these positions, why not be a revolutionary?

[00:03:53]That's what we expect from you in those positions. So, she's now um uh carrying the water for Piers Morgan um and his network. And I think anybody can look at Piers Morgan and his ideology and draw their own conclusions about her morals and ethics that that's where she chose to take her um you know, talents. So, I I don't begrudge her anything. Um, but it was a devastating thing and even in in my worst moments, there are certain things that I could not do uh to another human being and certainly not another uh black woman and she found those things effortless. I mean, you know, it was um devastating the way that she conducted herself. So, uh I like I said, it was it's not a vengeance book, you know, but it's like, hey, as much as we love each other, there are times where one of us splinters and they become more overseer than freedom fighter. again, Tiffany Cross. Listen y'all, this book, Love Me, a letter to black women in a toxic country, career, and relationship. It's a banger. It's a banger. I I really enjoyed it. Everything about it. Here's one thing that I was thinking, and this might be too revolutionary, if you will, and I'm not trying to take a check. Well, you also break down, folks don't know this, when you go on those cable news segments, you don't get paid unless you have a contract. So, there's that. But here's what I wonder right now. Cable news is so disgusting. It's um even worse than when you and I started. Like this is bizarre. I mean, I can recall when you used to go on, you would have to be an expert to talk about things.

[00:05:27]>> Now it's just >> now it's just Real Housewives of CNN, right?

[00:05:31]>> Yeah. And my my question to you is what if all of us said we're not going on your cable news shows every sing unless unless there's a contract.

[00:05:43]>> But what if every single black person in media cuz they call us up. Hey, can you come on tonight at 10:00? Hey, can you come on now? Come on right now. What if we all said no more?

[00:05:54]>> You need us more than we need you. What if we all collectively said, "Unless you have a contract, we're not going on your news shows." Then they would have no black person to argue with. I've thought about this. I'm like, "Maybe I should, you know, call up Angela Ride." Like, what do you think about this? But I know people see that as a stepping stone in their career. But Melissa Harris Perry, Joanne Reed, Tiffany Cross, Roland Martin, they've been us over for years.

[00:06:23]And I'm just wondering what if in this moment we all said we're not doing your shows anymore. Is that too drastic? What What are your thoughts on that?

[00:06:31]>> I I don't think it's too drastic. I just I don't think it is rational because Okay. So they say y'all not coming on.

[00:06:38]Then we will we will give you Clay Kane.

[00:06:40]We will give you a contract. And so now Clay Kane has a contract to still go on and talk to people who are his intellectual lessers. people who are insulting people, you know, like what you bring to the table, what qualifications you would have to have to get that contract still um far uh they're they they leaprog over the qualifications that our white counterparts have to show up with. I think the the true power brokers and the cable news uh reality shows are the viewers themselves. It would take people to say I am not tuning into this foolishness because even when you hate watch, you are still giving them numbers. You are still even when you post the clips, share the clips, do all of that, which I've certainly done, you are still you're their commercial. You you are there saying, "Look at this food. Look at the circus act." And it it says to um the executives like, "Oh, this is a thing that's working." And you know, I know there's a lot of criticism um for Aby's show and you know, the things that happen on that show, but I just want to point out to people um that the same despicable, disgusting people who appear on that show, they do not appear on Abby show exclusively. They appear all across that network. They appear all across other networks.

[00:07:58]They're they're not exclusive. And you know, I think the sad part is um you know, Scott Jennings is is one of the more um disgusting people who appears on that show. I think they um they adhere to him. They offer deference to him. Um he refuses to panel with me uh along with some other uh Republicans. And so I've essentially been um disinvited uh from the show because >> they call it shadowbanned, y'all. They call it shadow band.

[00:08:26]>> Um and you know, this is just a rumor.

[00:08:29]You know, I haven't heard this, but that's what a little birdie told me that he allegedly says he does not want to panel with me along with a few other Republicans. But here is the uh the interesting thing about this. Number one, that was not my favorite way to spend my time. Um, but I do like Abby personally. We may disagree professionally about how she uses her platform, but I think Abby is so smart and so talented. Um, and I just disagree with her on how she, you know, does the show. And I think the show is beneath the beautiful, smart, intellectual person that I know her to be. But she has a hard time, you know, dealing with executives over there. Um, even when Jesse Jackson died, she couldn't even say the name of her own book. This is my point about being the magic Like they they will not support you in the end. Um, but I I think it's sometimes unfair the criticism that she specifically gets. I'm like, "No, no, no, no, no." But they were on CNN that morning and it was the same kind of ridiculous behavior. They were on CNN in the afternoon espousing equally ridiculous beliefs with no push back.

[00:09:30]So, I just think if we're going to criticize, we should criticize fairly and, you know, um, uh, comprehensively, but I will say this about, you know, not being invited back into these spaces. I am never engaging with Scott really. Um, my goal is only to talk to the audience.

[00:09:47]And I don't enjoy because a lot of people ask, "Oh, can you hop on my show?

[00:09:50]Can you come on here and talk about this?" And I rarely do it, Clay, to be honest. I don't enjoy hopping out there giving my opinion on every little thing.

[00:09:57]No, I don't have an opinion about what just happened this morning. Um, you know, no, I don't have an opinion about, you know, Iran allegedly taking out two ships. Like, give me a second to think about it, to read about it. I'm just, and I'm not a commentator, you know, I'm a journalist at heart. And so, this idea of soon as something happens, come create content, come get in front of camera, come talk about it. That's fine if other people want to do it, but I limit my time. When I speak, I have something to say.

[00:10:24]>> I'm not saying I'll never go back on. I just I've just wondered how is this really serving us? And like I said, I can recall they they used to call us and say, >> you know, can you talk this? What's your area of expertise? Now you'll have five people babbling about Iran and getting 90% of the the stuff wrong. I couldn't talk about the nuances of, I don't know, communist China.

[00:10:50]>> That's not my lane. And I'm okay at saying that when you got a fitness influencer on her show talking about slavery, a fitness influencer. But you're right, it's not just her. Listen, I >> It's not her show. But I mean, I do think like Abby does defend her show.

[00:11:06]And so to me, if you jump out there and say, "No, this is my decision to have these people on," then you do open yourself up to some criticism. But I also want to be clear that I am not saying um that this book is not all about journalism or cable news or anything like I tell a little bit about that and something that you said earlier that um struck me you were talking about your father and how you know like your father might be listening and I write about my mother and some of the challenges we had. I think it's a great mother's day read um for people and I hope it fosters conversations between mothers and daughters. But you said, Clay, that that's why you think some black gay men have such strong relationships with black women. And to me, that is what it is, our love. That we are overflowing in our love. And so for me, for a while, I felt like I had this container of love that was overflowing and a faucet was constantly pouring in and there was no drain. I was just overflowing and I wanted to give that love to somebody. And the more um because of my own brokenness, when I put that love in the hands of the wrong people, well, the faucet turned off a little bit to the point where it just became a slow drip. And then as I gave that love to people who were mangling it and stabbing it, then there were holes in the container. There were drains and that love started to spill out. And I just saw my love just drain and drain and drain. And if I didn't have it to give to myself, how could I ask somebody to love me when I didn't have it to give to me? I think we can be loved even if we don't love ourselves. I think someone can come along and love you so much that you learn how can this person I love love love me if I'm not lovable. You know, I think that's part of it. But I was just struck when you said you have relationships with black women because I think we are the most loving people um on the planet. I think our something about our humanity and our generosity of spirit is the elasticity of it, the way it expands. you really balance um black women excellence with rest and softness.

[00:13:11]And I could talk to you for hours, but I want y'all to know that there is a beautiful balance in this book because it is about love >> and I think love is radical and I believe in radical hope and a radical love. So I love the balance you do with this book. I have so many I've it's just really really good. But we have to head out. Tiffany Cross. Again, the book is called Love Me: A Letter to Black Women in a Toxic Country Career and Relationship. You know her. You love her. Tiffany Dross. Listen, I need y'all to pick up this book. Y New York Times bestseller two times over. Let's rock this for Tiffany. Let's rock this.

[00:13:51]Tiffany, how can folks follow you, support you, and pick up the book?

[00:13:54]>> Yes. Um, please, you can get the hard copy of the book. I hope if you want to get the audio that's fine, but the hard copy is meant to be decoration in your house. And please, I encourage you to get it from a blackowned or independent bookstore. We're partnering with blackowned bookstores all across the country. You can get it everywhere. You can go to the big retailers, too. Um, but black bookstores mean so much. And it mean when I walk into a black bookstore and see a display featuring burndown master's house, that means so much. You know, it does because I don't know that you're going to get that at some of the bigger retailers. Um, you know,