The Reload - Is a 24-Team Playoff a Good Thing?

Added: 2026-05-22

[00:00:16]Hey everyone and welcome in to the Reload Podcast along with Nathan Gilslider and Marshall Scott. I'm Justin Southwell and we're back to talk about the spring sports, the the diamond sports if you will. And we've also got a little bit of football news, a little bit of football talk. So, we'll tease that up for you. But wanted to start obviously with what's cooking right now, which is Oklahoma State baseball rocking the cap, interlocking OS classic. What else is classic? Catching fire at the end of the season, heading right into the regionals.

[00:00:52]Well, I should say heading right into the the Big 12 tournament first and then into the regionals, then the supers, and we'll get there eventually. But Nathan, I wanted to get your take because you were in Vegas the last time we were talking and we missed out a little bit on the end of the season and how we had gone into Arizona State.

[00:01:10]>> Also need the highs and lows of the Vegas trip.

[00:01:13]>> That's true. We do need that.

[00:01:14]>> Yeah. um >> finished off the regular season against Arizona and then that led to the UCF game today. So >> yeah, >> wanted to get catch up with you a little bit how things are going. So one, start off with tell us what's going on Vegas trip and then let's dive into some baseball. Yeah, you know it just like as you kind of talked about Justin when you went your work trip and I I have this conversation with my wife every time I leave. I'm like it sounds like a fun vacation if it were a vacation but you know it's like 8 to 7 8 o'lock at night like you're just going straight through.

[00:01:49]So 1,800 people were at the same hotel.

[00:01:53]So you know that was like hering cattle in and out of rooms and you know all the stuff. So, it it was um it was good. You know, obviously Vegas is fun. A lot of stuff to do, but I wish I had better stories than that, but there really really wasn't a lot. We had >> It's work, man. It's work.

[00:02:10]>> I know. We had a lot to do. We had some new stuff coming up with work. And so, I actually had to pay attention and and be on time and do all the adult things. So, unfortunately, >> unfortunately, there's not much there.

[00:02:21]So, but yeah, it's it's good. Vegas always good. Is incredibly hot, which here it's been a little bit colder, right? So then you get there and it's like 106 and you're like, "Holy smokes, I forgot what the summer is supposed to feel like." So, >> did you guys get to go out to a nice dinner or anything like that?

[00:02:38]>> Yeah, we Yeah, we went to a nice dinner one night, which is always fun, right?

[00:02:42]And you had like a couple higherups from nationals that were there and got to ask them some questions and so that was good. That was good. But yeah, nothing more than that, honestly. Played cards a few nights. There's nothing more demoralizing than when you just look at like a little 5 foot six lady just take all your money, you know, and just sit there and just just take it all in from you. You just what are you gonna do? But uh No, it was fun. It was fun.

[00:03:07]>> Marshall, you mentioned you're planning a trip with your wife to Vegas pretty soon. So, >> got it locked in. We we locked in.

[00:03:13]>> Do you have like plans on where you're going to eat and all that kind of stuff?

[00:03:16]Like >> No, I haven't gotten that far yet. Going to going to see some shows. Got a couple of shows in mind or she's got a couple shows in mind that um she's interested in. So, uh, yeah, we we'll, uh, we'll sort of figure the rest out. But, uh, good thing is we're we're actually going now. So, uh, Oh, yeah. Baseball's that we're talking about.

[00:03:30]>> Yeah.

[00:03:31]>> Yeah. Baseball.

[00:03:33]>> Vegas baseball. Oakland A's.

[00:03:36]>> Arizona. Close to base is there. You go.

[00:03:40]We're getting there.

[00:03:41]>> I soft toss that up for you and it but it wasn't a soft toss at all. Knock it out.

[00:03:46]>> Yeah. Yeah. So the the Arizona series um you know they stumbled out of the out of the gate on the on the Friday night or it was Thursday night actually they bumped it up a night and honestly just wasn't like up to snuff competitively and coach Holiday kind of talked about that like yeah everybody's tired like we're towards the end of the season that guys are beat up you know he talks a lot about competitive endurance and usually what he means by that it's just like being able to lock in to do your job at the moment push yourself past the physical you know what I is what most coaches talk about, but they did a really good job of bouncing back the next two nights and getting wins that they needed to get. It seems like they have kind of actually as of today for sure, you know, they have Barrett who's come back and is now our first starter or Friday night starter with typically now. Um, so things are kind of lining back up and they've got Mario Pesca. He's built up now and he's kind of in the bullpen. He's kind of like that guy to come in and get you two to three strong innings now that Storm is a is our Sunday starter. So, um, you're just kind of rounding into shape, you know, on the offense.

[00:04:50]O State Daily does such a good job. He's been talking about this for a while with this team. There's no bigger correlation to offensive production than strikeouts.

[00:04:57]Like, I think the number I think he came to was like 15. Like, if this team keeps it under 15 strikeouts, they usually hit really well. if they get over 15, I think it was the number, but that first night, you know, they struck out a lot in a lot of non-competitive at bats and and but I think they've won now 14 out of their last 17. This is a dangerous team. I don't foresee any way they can get themselves into hosting, but they can really do themselves a lot of favors in this Big 12 tournament to be a come a really good two seed. You know, you don't want to go to UCLA, you don't want to go to Georgia, you don't want to go to Georgia Tech. Like these teams are loaded. You can get basically just about anywhere else as a two seed. You got a fighting chance. So if they could win a few games in this Big 12 tournament, they could really help themselves out quite a bit.

[00:05:47]>> That'd be pretty cool. So no chance. You don't think there's any chance you go and win the Big 12 and then stumble into backing into a regional spot. Nothing like that going to happen.

[00:05:57]>> I Yeah. No, I hate to say like one loss, but that that Thursday night loss, I think dropped like nine places in the RPI. one loss did because Arizona's pretty bad this year. That right there shot any chance because they were really climbing and they were getting into like the 20s in the RPI. You have to be right around 20 to be able to be like even considered because they're 16 seeds.

[00:06:19]They were kind of in that range and then they fell back to like mid30s with one loss. And uh yeah, so you know the Big 12's just not strong enough this year to carry it through, right? They don't have even though they have like a series win against Cincinnati which Cincinnati is a ranked team right and then they beat Arizona State but outside of that you know got swept by UCF you got you know you lost swept by KU um stuff like that you know so just not enough quality wins on there so I think it's a definitely a two seed they've done enough to be two seed which >> I mean if you've been listening six weeks ago people were asking for coach to be fired and not certain we were going to make the tournament. Um, which by the way, we are now the second longest tenur streak of making regionals in all of college baseball. So, despite not being able to get to the College World Series, Coach Holiday has been incredibly consistent and uh he needs kudos for that because LSU is not going to make it this year and I don't think Vanderbilt's going to make it this year.

[00:07:22]So, two of the other people that were in front of us, they're they're out. So, um I think it was LSU, maybe Florida.

[00:07:29]Either way, one of those two are not going to make it this year. Kudos to the coach. That's all I got to tell on that one.

[00:07:36]>> Absolutely.

[00:07:38]>> Marshall, you want to shift over to softball because I already do have any other parting baseball?

[00:07:42]>> We should recap, I think, today a little bit. Uh they went 126 over UCF in the the quarterfinal round. Um they played like this morning basically. Um, >> yeah, I thought it was an impressive game because they had So, Colin Richie and Aiden Yolo, who are like probably their two best offensive players, uh, combined to go one for eight. They, as a team don't hit any home runs, and that's like what this team is known for is hitting home runs. And they score 12 runs still. So, you know, two of your guys, two of your best guys didn't have their best day.

[00:08:12]You're not just knocking balls out of the park and you you hang 12 runs on on UCF. So, I thought I thought that was interesting. You mentioned Hudson Barrett getting the start. Uh, I thought that was, you know, notable. Um, threw fif how many? He threw 94 pitches, so that's, you know, that's pretty extended as well. And five innings is not, you know, necessarily what you want to see, but it was a fine start nonetheless.

[00:08:30]Error really hurt. Uh, I think he had gave up five runs, but I think only one of them was earned. Um, I think there was an error in like the fifth or something like that. So, uh, yeah, you know, they they play Kansas, who won the Big 12 regular season, uh, tomorrow or today if you're listening to this on on the day that it came out, um, at like 6:30 p.m., I think, is when it when that game is on. So, um, yeah, like you mentioned, this it's sort of a classic Josh Holiday. This team is all of a sudden really hot around conference tournament time.

[00:08:58]>> I'm glad you pointed that out because you saw that kind of in the Arizona really some in the Arizona State game like more guys are really starting to step up. I mean, you saw Bugamman has had a pretty tough most of his season, but man, the last couple weeks, >> he's on fire right now.

[00:09:12]>> He's on fire. And that is such a big deal to this team to have that guy at the six or seven spot left-handed to be able to produce because they have not had that, right? And we know that Garrett Scholes really struggled this season. Um, so that bottom half of the lineup and now you have Avery Ortiz back, which is great, right? So, a lot of those things. One thing I I wanted to point out just a little bit. Colin Richie and Alex Conover were first team all Big 12. Aiden Miola and Ethan Lond were second team and Stormmy Rhodess and Brock Thompson were honorable mention.

[00:09:44]So, you know, even though it's not our best year, you're getting six guys on the allconerence teams. Colin Richie being a Golden Spikes semi-finalist, which is a huge deal, which that's basically the Heisman of of College baseball. Just had a phenomenal season.

[00:09:59]And you know, Alex Connover, absolutely a hitting machine.

[00:10:03]>> I think he's slugger of the year. I think >> that's right. Yep. Slugger of the year, which is amazing when you think about having Harrison and Colin Richie both in the top three in home runs in the nation and you're the one that's the slugger, right? I mean, he just does a little bit of everything. So, >> leadoff guy, too. That's >> I know. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. He's really coming into his own. But yeah, I mean if they can get any kind of pitching, which they have they have, you know, in spurts, but if you can get it, like there's a real chance you can come out of a regional with this team because they can hit. They can really hit.

[00:10:36]>> Last thing real quick on Colin Bregman, he led OSU with four RBI's today, which put them up to 200 career RBI's, and that ranks 10th on the program's alltime list. So, congratulations. All right, now on to softball because we've got a limited amount of time before this rain delay is over and then Marshall has to get back to work. Well, as we're recording now, but softball, they just won the Still Water regional. We're about to play Nebraska in the Super.

[00:11:04]Marshall, what's been going on? I know that there's at least a pistol firing article that I saw where you're talking about the three storylines that you wanted to hit on for Nebraska, but maybe we can circle back and talk a little bit of the regional that we just won. Yeah, it was one of the more clean regionals that that I really remember that they've had. Uh they start with a 16 nothing game against Eastern Illinois and it was it was bad. And and you obviously never really know uh you know sort of what that's going to look like whenever a team comes from a soft conference, but I think they're from the Ohio Valley. I think they were like 23 and one in the Ohio Valley and they just straight up with with all due respect did not belong in the same softball field as Oklahoma State. Like it was it was it was not good. And then even like the their little loopers that that Oklahoma State they hit a little looper over the the first basement or third baseman and it would just land fair like like it was they were getting outskilled and then like luck wasn't going their way either.

[00:11:52]It was it was pretty rough for for Eastern Illinois. So uh you know that was what that was but then you know they they go on and they beat Stanford twice in a row as the team that they they lost to at the beginning of the year. I think in that beginning of the year those two games they scored two runs on Stanford.

[00:12:06]U they scored 18 runs on in two games against Stanford uh you know this past weekend. So, um I think it's really big for them to win uh that first game, what day was that? Saturday. And then it was obviously really big for them to win that first game Sunday because, uh you know, in a in that Sunday scenario, it's kind of like, okay, so do you pitch Ruby on in the first game, but then if you lose that first game, then you're going to have to ask Ruby to like pitch another seven innings. Like that's probably how that was going to go. So, um they just went ahead and pitched her.

[00:12:33]Uh Kenny was like uh said that Carrie Ely, the the pitching coach, was sort of on him all night, like texting him like, "Hey, what are we doing? What are we doing? Like, who should I tell?" and stuff like that. And Kenny just said he ignored her for until the morning. And then he just called her and was like, "Hey, we're going to go with Ruby." And uh and that's what they did. And she was nails again. Yeah. Big regional from Amanda Hassler, who Tyler wrote a really good feature about her that that went up on the site today. Um I forget what it was, but she was she hit like astronomically like in the 700s or something like that in the regionals.

[00:13:02]So, uh, it it was super clean. That's Yeah, you mentioned that they're playing the Supers in Lincoln right now. Another team that they've they've already played this year. Um, I I wrote a three storylines post. Um, >> I just found that Hassler averaged 777.

[00:13:15]>> That's Yeah, that's >> across all three regional games. So, >> that'll do. I think I think you'll take that. Three Stolines for the Nebraska regional. Uh, Ruby returns home and it's an elite pitching matchup. That's sort of two story lines in one. Uh, but Ruby from Nebraska, she goes home. Jordy Ball, if you guys remember the OU pitcher, Jordy Ball, now Jordy from uh she's at Nebraska. She's also from from Nebraska. They like played on the same travel ball team or something like that.

[00:13:38]So, uh really elite pitching matchup. Um the the series is already even. That's the second story line that I had that they played in February. Oklahoma State won the first game in 11 innings. That Rosie Davis walk-off bomb like over the batter's eye. Um absolutely nuked it. Um and then Nebraska won the second game.

[00:13:54]They were supposed to play again on that Sunday. Uh but there was like rain in the area. Nebraska had to get back up to Lincoln. Um so then and then the third story line is is can Oklahoma State get back to Oklahoma City? They miss out on last year that that ended their streak of five, you know, seasons in a row.

[00:14:07]They they didn't have the 2020 season, but 19 and then four more. Um that was the longest streak in program history.

[00:14:14]Oklahoma State had only ever gone back to back. I think they went back toback twice outside of the GIS era and then GI comes and and they went to five in a row. So it would be obviously big for the program to to get back to Oklahoma City and it's a it's a winnable super.

[00:14:26]We've already beaten them once. Kenny's mentioned this team is way different. Um evident by the fact that they scored two runs on uh Stanford in Stanford and then set 18 runs on on Stanford this past weekend. So Nebraska is really good.

[00:14:37]They're they're I think the four seed in the tournament, but in a lot of the rankings they're the number one team in the country. Kenny said he's been voting them as the number one team in the country, but the Big 10 is not a very good conference. So it's like the the seating is pretty RPI based. So um yeah, it should be a really fun regional. I thought we'd get to sort of live commentate in a way on some of it tonight, but uh the weather said otherwise.

[00:14:58]>> Yeah, softball, they've got to have some kind of weather delay. You know, you never start on time. Every game around this time of year is going to end up like the 2011 Tulsa game for football.

[00:15:07]It's just >> Well, I'll never forget I think we were playing Florida State. What was that a couple years ago? And like they made the girls play like at one o'clock in the morning.

[00:15:15]>> Exactly.

[00:15:16]>> Right. And then now they instituted the Oklahoma State. I don't know how we do this with every sport, but we're like the guinea pig. It's like, "Oh, it goes wrong. We should probably change it the next year.

[00:15:23]>> Oh, that's right. Yeah, they changed the rule because of that. Yeah, >> that's right. And this that team had national championship aspirations. Like they really could have won. That screwed them over so much. Uh man on their I remember I was like, "Holy smokes, these girls are having to play at 1:00 in the morning." Like this is wild.

[00:15:40]>> We need to find a list of those type of things cuz like Oklahoma State in some ways killed the BCS with with how 2011 shook out. um the net sort of got invented because that that Mike Boon team that beat Trey Young twice but then Trey Young got in like that that was sort of like a a shifting to where they were like okay we maybe need to look at these metrics a little bit because this team just beat this other team twice and we put that team in front of this team.

[00:16:02]Uh there's there's a lot of those that it's like >> golf OSU golf was so dominant that they decided to go to match play instead of tro play because nobody was so >> I think holder was >> holder was part of that for TV but I'm just saying people were like this is not fun to watch like okay let's go to match play even though coach Holder was part of that. So we changed the entire entire golf system baseball, you know, like we went to super regionals and then we added regionals after that after Oklahoma State with, you know, however many Big 12, Big E championships. It was I mean, we've been a part of on the cutting edge of all these changes and I don't know if I like it or not.

[00:16:40]>> Basketball getting punished by the NCAA and then they were like, "Ah, that was probably too harsh. Let's not be as harsh on all these other teams moving forward."

[00:16:48]>> You know what, guys? It's really unfair if we punish people who weren't even there when it happened. Oh. Oh, I'm glad that you found that out >> now. Now.

[00:16:55]>> Gosh.

[00:16:56]>> Okay.

[00:16:58]Last little bit I wanted to point out on the chamber. Sign up for it if you haven't already. Going to see cool stuff like this. Somebody pointed out the run differential in regionals. OSU plus 27, Nebraska plus 6. So again, we kind of talked about how dominant we were in the regional, but that's uh that's really nice, especially with the way that it had been going where it was like Ruby's been dominant. We just need to give her some additional run support and now it looks like that's starting to heat up at the right time.

[00:17:26]>> Yeah, he Kenny credits, you know, inserting Lexi McDonald into the lineup.

[00:17:30]Uh, you know, sort of shifted some things over. Carly Godwin went from first base to second base to get Lexi McDonald on the field. That's that sparked some things. Um, and then you mentioned the the run differential. Uh that's the the biggest run differential for a regional in program history for Oklahoma State as well. So we mentioned how clean that was. It was uh they they really had no issues this past weekend.

[00:17:48]>> All right, we teed it up a little bit earlier. We've got some football stuff going on, which I guess Marshall, do we want to talk about the gentleman that just committed to Oklahoma State today?

[00:17:57]Some 44 speed on the >> on the docket coming up.

[00:18:00]>> Yeah. Uh we we certainly can. Cooper Hooker. Um he's going to Prior. He's from Salina. Uh but but now transferring to prior high school kids are transferring all over the place these days. Um I don't know if you guys have seen that when I feel like I was like the last generation who for the most part and there was you know still kids that moved around but and and now I look back and like everybody's just moving.

[00:18:19]It's hard to keep up with high schoolers at this point but and I'm not you know this is fine that Cooper Hooker is doing this. That's that's totally uh beside the point. It's just there's a lot of transfers going on high school. But anyways uh yeah he he ran a 44 at an Under Armour event in March 438 Shuttle.

[00:18:34]Um he's like 59 5'9 170 something like that. So you know slot type uh receiver uh had a really good year this past year like 850 receiving yards. Um I think he broke his fibula or his fe he broke a bone in his and he broke some bone uh that that made him miss his whole sophomore year uh of high school return this past year. Um and then you know I think after he ran that 44 sort of uh the recruitment started to pick up a little bit. I think he was an Oklahoma State fan growing up. I'm gonna try and talk with him. Dakota Gregory who used to work for me uh actually like coached him playing baseball at one point because Dakota's from from that area. So going to try to talk to him maybe after his his visit at the end of the month.

[00:19:12]But the second recruit that that they picked up in the class, it's a guy that Eric Morris I think likes a lot.

[00:19:17]Smalltown Oklahoma. That's like check mark. Um speed check mark. And then he's a switch hitting shortstop. So it's like, you know, Eric Morris loves him some of that as well. So um yeah, I I think the recruiting news is about to start uh rolling a little bit. They're they're really uh they're really on the pursuit, especially some some instate guys. So, that's going to continue to pick up as we uh roll into the summer.

[00:19:37]>> I actually just texted a few people about him. They were talking. They said, "Hey, really shifty, great route running, really, really good ball skills." Honestly, the only unknown is just he's small and he's not played, you know, he played at Salena, so he's trying to move up a little bit, go to prior things of that nature. just kind of like, hey, we just that's kind of the unknown. But that's where Oklahoma State has lived for a while. That's where Coach Morse has lived for the last handful of years of finding these kids.

[00:20:09]And he seems to be a really talented player, just maybe a little bit undersized and underrecruited, like you said, Marshall, some of these injuries and things like that. Sometimes that happens. So, >> it's good to get it's always always good to get instate guys, right, Coach Morris and staff to get >> that rolling.

[00:20:23]>> And you know, Morris, he's got Miles Coleman on the team. He's got Chris Barnes on the team. So like this is, you know, in himself being a smaller receiver, it's it's pretty obvious he doesn't really uh put a whole lot of stock into to maybe height, but four four speed will take.

[00:20:36]>> If you can play, you can play, right?

[00:20:38]There's maybe there's limitations to things you maybe can do, could do.

[00:20:42]>> Maybe won't be mossing guys Dez Bryant style, but >> that's right. But you can find if you can play, you'll find a spot. There's no doubt about it.

[00:20:49]>> Another one that has happened since the last time we were on the podcast, OSU landed a former Miami safety, Markeath Williams. Looks like he's a former fourstar DB. Has three years of experience. Maybe a little bit undersized for safety. 6'1 170. So maybe maybe playing corner. I don't know. But whenever you guys saw that, I mean obviously coming later post spring portal kind of a weird deal here. What What was your initial reaction whenever you saw this? We're getting another guy coming in from Miami all of a sudden.

[00:21:19]>> And they got the the Youngsttown guy as well. They had two DBs.

[00:21:23]>> There you go.

[00:21:24]>> That's right. Yeah. So, I think I even texted you guys this. I was like, "Yeah, that's not real like convincing." It's kind of like you get through spring, you finally get to take a deep breath, you reestess your roster and be like, "Hey, what are some things we need depth at?"

[00:21:38]And they clearly felt that DB was an area they needed some depth, right? And to their credit, they were able to go get a couple guys. But yeah, I don't know. Didn't make me feel like great about the DBs going into the year if you're going to take a couple. I mean, maybe maybe it's just a maybe it's nothing more than they view it as a depth piece in special teams and all, you know what I mean? So, it could be nothing, but that was like my first initial was like red flag.

[00:22:02]>> I haven't read up a ton on Williams that happened while I was at Softball counter with that for our site. But, uh, Piper the the Young Sound Stake guy. So, whenever I went and looked at that, they they only have six uh corners listed on the roster, which is, you know, you know, maybe they they feel good about, you know, three or four of the guys that they got and there's like, hey, there's not maybe depth here that we need. So, um, you know, it it the Piper, the the Youngsttown Sake guys. Sort of interesting. He didn't he played one game at at Youngsttown State this past year. Previous played at like Western Illinois in Western Michigan or Western Iowa. Western I think it was Western Illinois and Western Michigan. So, um, another sort of speed guy. Uh, like I feel like everybody that um, Oklahoma State is in on, I I find a 40 time, which I'm not sure that that's that's always happened. It looks like a like I said, it really does seem like Eric Morris almost sorts these guys by speed like he's playing on uh on college football like that. That's that's what I do. So, um yeah, I think it it probably says, you know, just like Nathan mentioned, this is a you know, not that glowing is an endorsement of of of depth in the secondary, but I don't necessarily know that that's a bad thing. They had to build this plane like while flying it. So, uh I think it's probably okay that, you know, they're like, "Hey, maybe we need two more DBs."

[00:23:05]I think that's I think that's fine.

[00:23:07]>> That'll work. And then, um something else I thought would be relevant to talk about is I'm just hearing it on Joel Clatt, Josh Pate. We're all talking about the 2014 team playoff and all of the potential that might be happening.

[00:23:20]It seems like we're throwing this number out there. We're going to potentially vote on it to see if it's the best in the best interest of the college football world. We can dive into our takes about how we feel about a 2014 playoff. Well, Nathan found an interesting graphic on Twitter that showed, hey, let's just say that we had a 24 team playoff since the playoff was introduced in 2014.

[00:23:46]Now, if it had been 24 teams from the start, 80 different teams would have made an appearance over the last 12 seasons. What I found interesting was Oklahoma State would have been there six times which ties teams like Miss, Iowa, and Texas ahead of teams like Florida, Florida State, Tennessee, Washington with five. And you know, just thinking about that, the hypothetical scenarios there over the last decade, 12 years, does that change things for Gundy and Co? Does that mean all of a sudden since we're making playoff appearances we're recruiting at a higher level? I mean, do you think anything changes with that or is it all just playing out the way it would have played out anyway?

[00:24:31]>> I think maybe it makes I don't know. I think maybe it makes a good season sound a little bit better, but at the end of the day, like if you're in a 2014 player, it's still, you know, you're top 24 team. Like they they were still already in the top 25 all those, you know what I mean? So, it's sort of just like a different way of presenting it in terms of look at all these playoff appearances where look at all these top 25 finishes. It's like sort of almost the same thing. So, I don't know how different things would have played out.

[00:24:56]I think maybe maybe there'd be a little bit more like national respect in a way in terms of, you know, it always feels like Oklahoma State sort of the plucky underdog when they're in those type of scenarios.

[00:25:05]if it was, you know, more regularly pounded into people's head like, hey, this team is now this is the sixth time they've been in the playoff and then, you know, maybe there'd be a little bit more national respect garnered. But I I sort of think it's just a different way of saying, hey, this team finished the year in the top 25, which you know, and and maybe, you know, they go on runs in those those playoffs, maybe those magical moments sort of transcend that obviously, but uh if if you just get in and then lose in the round of 16 or whatever, it's like, okay, this is about a top 16 team. Um, so just sort of a different way of presenting if you ask me. The first thing I think of is I think from a national perspective it would have helped the brand quite a bit because I'm blown away. I've been blown away well these past two seasons and I can't say anything but before these last two seasons like I've always been blown away at like these other P4 conference schools that are like oh yeah we're definitely better than it's like no you're not like Wisconsin. No you're not Iowa. No you score seven points a game.

[00:26:01]No, you're not better than Oklahoma State. You haven't been or you know like whatever schools like schools like that, right? That haven't made the playoff but they're they're right there. They're really competitive and they're just like yeah Big 12. It's like I think >> would have only made it three times. The the perfect example is&M.

[00:26:16]>> That's right. Right. And so I mean even Texas right that triples our budget and everything and all these schools and you hear coach Sark you know already chirping and this year to get things fired up and I think I think more than anything on a national brand level it would have helped because anybody that's ever played outside these last two years if you played Oklahoma State consistently and you saw what coach Gundy did we were extremely good and I'm sure if you ask Texas fans they're like yeah Oklahoma State's always underrated right because they couldn't beat us for a long So, probably the most thing was probably just like national brand recognition. Hindsight, looking back, I don't think Coach Gundy would have done anything differently in his recruiting.

[00:26:58]So, I don't know that that would have changed a lot, right? I mean, we should have been in the national championship game and all these other things and really didn't change much for recruiting and it's just been on the same. you beat Notre Dame in the Fiesta Bowl and just stays the same, right? So, I don't know.

[00:27:18]>> Weird that it's where it tailed off like sort of weird weird that that was the like and then how did it go downhill so quickly anyways? And I >> you know what I agree it's kind of like all right this is where we're going to punch and then it was like >> yeah it was we got a logo too and it's like holy crap like Oklahoma State is here and then >> no.

[00:27:37]>> And then Notre Dame's kind of been on the upward trajectory.

[00:27:40]>> Yeah.

[00:27:41]>> Yeah. I mean obviously NIL plays a large part in that but yeah I think that's probably the two things where I look at it I think would have helped most because I think we would have won a couple games right I think we we would have been an undersseated I think we probably would have won a couple playoff games just being fair I mean that would have helped a lot and then I think just from a national brand standpoint of you know even these schools like Washington and and things like that like Washington's been good Washington's played for a national championship game a couple years ago and I don't know have they been a better football team than Oklahoma State the last 15 years.

[00:28:16]I don't know, you know, like maybe it's not by much. It's definitely by a lot less than people think. So, it's just stuff like that. I mean, you know, we beat him in a bowl game, right? Like they had three first round draft picks on that team and we beat him. So, I mean, I don't know. That's probably whenever I when I sent that, that was probably my thought. I was thinking about too though, if you got a 2014 playoff, a lot of these playoff games are going to be played on campuses.

[00:28:44]There's a good chance we've got a lot of games that have been played in Boone Pick and Stadium, generating a little bit more revenue for Little University.

[00:28:52]It's just interesting to see how all of that could have played out, where the dominoes fall after that. But that being said, it sounds like I'm a big proponent of a 2014 playoff, but whenever it comes to putting it into practice and making that a reality, not really for a 2014 playoff. I feel like even 12 is too much. I've been saying this for years, like this is like years, like it's been going on forever, but the more we've been talking about playoff expansion, I just think eight is the perfect number. Just leave it at that.

[00:29:26]And now we're talking about potentially having three times as many as that. It's just like how many of these teams are realistically going to be competing for a national championship when it's all said and done. So that's my take on it.

[00:29:40]I don't know if you guys have different takes. I'd be interested to hear what you think about a potential 24 team playoff.

[00:29:47]>> Yeah, I don't I don't like 24. I think really the only people that do love 24 are people who can make money off there being 24 teams in the playoff. I think that's sort of uh where that is to a certain extent. And I don't know. I I think I'm team 16. It's a nice clean bracket. I think that either the group of five should have its own playoff or the group of five gets an at least one automatic spot. That's that's where I stand. And I think that gets tied at 12 because you're like, "Ooh." But if you're the 17th, you know, if you're the team that gets left out and your team's 17 uh because a group of five team got in, it's like, okay, like I don't know that I don't I don't feel too bad for you. So I I I think that, you know, that sort of was the case with 12. And I, you know, I think the argument could be made that no matter how long you expand it, people are going to be pissed off.

[00:30:28]People are pissed off when they're they're the se 69th team in the instit bracket. So I totally get that to a certain extent. But um yeah, I think I'm team 16. Um I think you know you get the conference champions in, you get, you know, one group of five champion in and then you you you fill out the rest. But yeah, I just think 24 is is a bit overkill. I think it's crazy to go from, you know, we were at four for so long, then 12 was like, you know, a three times multiplier and then it's like, you know what, double that, too. It's like, whoa. Like, this is this is all happening rather quickly. So, yeah, I think I think I'm team 16 mainly because I like nice clean brackets. Who needs a buy? It's it's football. I think, you know, I get you play for the one seed to get the buy, but I I think, you know, the wear and tear is sort of such a big aspect of it. I think that's uh I think everybody needs to play the same number of games.

[00:31:11]>> Originally, >> there's no buys with an 18 bracket. I'm just saying nice 18 bracket as well, but but then you can't get a group of five.

[00:31:18]Then the group of five might as well just become between FCS and you know FBS at that point because no group of five teams ever getting in an 18 playoff.

[00:31:27]>> Yeah, it's a great thought, Marshall.

[00:31:29]Yes, I agree.

[00:31:32]>> Originally, I was like, this is disgusting. Like, who wants this? Then I took a little bit of a deeper dive and I've kind of changed my mind a little bit on this. And here's here's a few reasons why. Number one, 24 is still by far the least percentage of teams to make a playoff in sports. Like it's not even close. So if you look at the NFL, MLB, even college basketball now, right, with the expanded, you know, like which that don't get me started on that because that they had it perfect. They had the most perfect most beautiful tournament in all of sports and they screwed it up. So anyways, so 24, number one, as a Big 12 fan and a Big 12 lifer, I we need 24 because I don't know that our representation is going to allow us any other way.

[00:32:20]Secondly, we have the best sport in all of North America staring us at our face and we refuse to copy its model. Well, I don't understand why you cannot copy and paste the NFL. I don't I do not understand because people keep saying the 24 is going to devalue the regular season. Really? Because my bill for NFL football keeps going up every single year. And it's not because the regular season games are getting less important.

[00:32:47]No, it's because if you're trying to make the playoffs all the way until the second, maybe even the last week of the year, your team is in the hunt. You have a chance. So, you are in. You are bought in. you are watching. So this whole like well you know now Northwestern versus Ohio State just lost its luster. It never had luster. It that was never going to work. Who cares? That has nothing to do with it. But now you've got the third place team or the second place team in the Big 12 that's now going to continue to stay locked in rather than saying, "Hey, if we can't win the Big 12, we're not getting in."

[00:33:26]Right? And so from that standpoint, I actually think it's going to be better because that's closer to what the NFL does. The more participants, the greater the fan bases are going to buy in for longer. And then when you're talking about money in NIL, these schools that make the playoffs are getting these exponential payments.

[00:33:48]Well, now if you make the playoffs, there's more people that have more money. Hopefully that'll continue to divide out the talent pool of the athletes. and maybe that will continue to go out and maybe balance out just a little bit more. And then on top of that, when you're looking at just an overall like, yeah, you know what? The 24th team is probably not going to win the national championship, but guess what? Neither is the second wild card in the NFC. So, like, what are we doing?

[00:34:17]You know, like nobody's nobody's really mad at that game. It's another football game. If you if you actually were to cut down, I think probably like at least one game out of the regular season and start the playoff the week of conference championships, that's the first round on your site. I mean, I think it's br I think it's brilliant. And then you're getting that revenue, you're getting a payment, and then you can host it like a Super Bowl on the Final Four if you want to. Each boom boom offsite random. Then you have one big national championship kind of like they do now. I think everybody wins in this situation. There's more money made.

[00:34:59]These schools that are having to kill all of their other programs because they can't afford to keep their head above water. Oklahoma State's not far behind.

[00:35:07]And unfortunately in some of these areas, making a playoff game may be able to keep some of these sports alive that we may not be able to. So I don't know.

[00:35:16]I just think when you look at a school like Oklahoma State and where we're at from a revenue standpoint and where we're at from an NIL standpoint and where we want to go, I think 24 is the best thing for us to be honest.

[00:35:32]>> All right, a couple things. So on the NFL model, for example, 32 teams, you got two conferences, eight divisions, you got teams that are playing teams twice a year. And I think that the regular season really doesn't matter as much in the NFL as it as it should. The way that the college football setup has been the regular season, there's so much weight on the regular season. For example, you were talking about Ohio State versus Northwestern. Well, I'm thinking about like 2018, Ohio State lost to Purdue and that kept them effectively out of the national championship that year because they lost to Purdue in the middle of the season.

[00:36:11]Now, they went on to go win the Big 10 championship. ironically against Northwestern.

[00:36:17]Like I don't know what Northwestern was doing there in 2018, but then they have to their consolation for that was playing in the Rose Bowl and they beat Washington. Was that team good enough to win a national championship?

[00:36:29]Well, I mean, we don't know because we didn't have a quote unquote 2014 playoff. But I'm thinking, you know what? If you would have handled your business against Purdue, you could have found out. And it's the same thing. And it really hurts to say this, but it's the same thing for Oklahoma State against Iowa State. If there was a 2014 playoff, no doubt in my mind, Oklahoma State goes on to win the national championship. Doesn't matter how many teams were in that playoff that year, Oklahoma State was going to win it. It just happened to be that we got matched up against Stanford in the Fiesta Bowl that year. So, speaking of, thanks thanks to that, we have a playoff. But anyway, I digress. I think that it's like the the further we get into having a more teams in the playoff, the more we're going to devalue the regular season because it doesn't matter that they lose to Purdue in the in the middle of the season anymore.

[00:37:21]They still have a chance to go and play >> versus the Philadelphia Eagles devalued because it's in week two rather than week 17.

[00:37:29]>> Just depends on the year really.

[00:37:31]>> No, it doesn't. That's always the number. It doesn't. It doesn't. I know it's like a rivalry game or whatever, but you can make the same case about the Giants. It could have been like a big matchup for them or or the Commanders just because they're in the division and they're quote unquote rivals. It depends on the year for the intensity of that game. The Jacksonville Jaguars and the Houston Texans normally doesn't matter unless both teams that year end up being really good and then you kind of like retroactively look back like, "Oh man, those were battles in the regular season and this m blah blah." It's like I don't want to have to retroactively look at the season to figure out that that game mattered. It should matter because it's a game.

[00:38:09]>> Yeah, but they all matter. It's the same It's the same argument that you can have in anything. It's like baseball. It's like, "Oh, you missed the playoffs by one game." Well, guess what? This the game in the second week of the season that you you went and threw your left fielder in the seventh inning because you're out of pitchers and you gave up on it, that mattered just as much as 162. It's the same thing in college football. It's the same thing in NFL.

[00:38:30]Like unfortunately being a Dallas Cowboys fan, I realized that when they lose a game in the third week of the season that they shouldn't have lost and then they're a wild card team instead of winning the division, that game mattered. So whether the matter is getting into the playoff at all or you should have gotten a buy or you could have done this or that that it still matters. You're just shifting what matters the most and you're keeping more people intrigued for longer.

[00:38:58]I'll tell you what, each time one of you guys talk, I'm like, "You know what? I agree with this guy." And then the other one of you talking like, "No, no, no.

[00:39:03]I'm going back over here."

[00:39:06]>> I mean, trust me, I was all in. Like, I actually I actually thought, especially after we got burned, I thought that 18 was the cleanest because it was, you know, each champion from each conference, you know, and then you just you get, you know, an atlarge or whatever it is after that. But then the more like you see it and again I mean not being in the Big 10 or the SEC they're ranking teams that are garbage but it's just because they're in the SEC or the Big 10. So therefore you're vaultting up the other team because like oh we have a ranked win against uh you know let's whoever you want to say Purdue. I mean Purdue stinks but let's just say you have a ranked win against Purdue. It's like produce terrible, but because they're in the Big 10, the Big 12 doesn't get that, right? You you have to be like, well, yeah, Iowa State's really freaking good or whoever it may be. But we don't get those and you're until you're never going to get more at large bids than the one that we have already had. And the only way you're getting that is if you win the conference championship game. So, number one, do away with the conference championship games. They're pointless.

[00:40:14]Out.

[00:40:17]go straight to the playoffs and you're gonna have more chances. And as an Oklahoma State fan with Coach Gundy, how many times we did not win our conference when we had an opportunity to, we still would have had an opportunity to keep playing. And who knows what would have happened at that point. We still would have been engaged. We would have been all about it. Just saying.

[00:40:37]>> Kind of seems like if you don't It just kind of seems like if you don't win that game, like do you really deserve >> I think 16 is the best of both worlds that you guys are talking about right now.

[00:40:46]>> Oh.

[00:40:47]16's not bad. Deserve maybe, but the constant that we hear and you hear all these people argue about it.

[00:40:57]You hear Kirk Herbstreet, you hear Josh Pate, you hear whoever else, all these people that get mad. We want the best teams. I want to see the best. This is the best. Okay, so we've had teams that have lost their conference championship and they weren't the best team in their conference or they didn't even make the conference. What? Like who was it? Was it >> Yeah, the Miami Miami didn't even play the conference championship last year.

[00:41:22]They made it all the way to the national good opportunity to win the national championship.

[00:41:28]>> But you're telling me, well, they made it because they're one of the best.

[00:41:31]Well, did they earn that? I don't think so because >> No, >> they they lost to some crappy teams in the middle of the year that they should not have lost to, but they did lose. So, you're gonna not give them an opportunity?

[00:41:44]>> Yeah.

[00:41:46]Like I honestly, yeah, I don't it's I think it's I think it's kind of >> I think it's kind of a travesty >> to college football that Miami, the 11th best team, quote unquote, going into the playoff, was able to go on a run at the end of the year and make it to the national championship game because I don't think that the body of work that they had up to that point was good enough for them to even make the playoff. If we had an 18 playoff, they would have been out.

[00:42:19]>> That's like That's like the That's like the year that the that the Seahawks were like seven and nine and everyone was mad because they won their division at seven and nine because their division stunk and they went in on one two playoff games and they had the beef quake and all the things.

[00:42:32]>> Yeah, we got all these like unique scenarios and especially it's going to happen more in the NFL because >> you're playing teams multiple times and >> but I mean they did what they did what they had to do. They got in and they made noise.

[00:42:44]and >> they almost they almost went to the Super Bowl.

[00:42:48]>> It really is hard to like argue for that because I'm like Miami legitimately they they showed up. They showed out to make it to that point and it's like how can you say that they're not deserving to be in that position whenever they go out and they do it. But at the same time I'm like they didn't deserve to be there in the first place. So it's like I don't it's just kind of blah.

[00:43:10]>> I mean I get it. I get it. I mean, I understand it because I'm like, you know, yeah, there's some really good teams sometimes that don't make it because they didn't take care of their business. I get that. But from a popularity, revenue, from a standpoint of we want the best teams in the tournament.

[00:43:28]That's hard for me to argue against a 24 other than just being like, I think eight's probably the right number, but everyone's too greedy and TV controls everything, so we're not that's not happening.

[00:43:38]I'm just trying to think of other hypothetical scenarios where this would be dumb. Like a 24 team, 24th best team in the tournament. Are we ever expecting them to knock off a one seed? Well, probably not. But it's football.

[00:43:51]Anything can happen. So then I don't know. I just I go back to thinking about the rest of the opportunities missed, I guess, in the past where it was like, okay, well, we should have had this the whole time. And then who knows what would have happened if we would have had this.

[00:44:09]I don't know.

[00:44:10]>> All right. 16. It is 16. It it you know it matters. You got to be in the top obviously 16. Um that keeps that that keeps some of the the luster of the regular season mattering like Justin wants, but it allows for more teams to be involved late in the season like Nathan wants. And it's a nice clean bracket like Marshall wants.

[00:44:34]It's still gross. Still gross. I'm just kidding. Probably be okay with it. No, I wouldn't because there's no way that somebody ranked 15 or 16 would ever make any kind of noise in the playoff.

[00:44:50]>> I also think a good thing that's come out of this is that we are putting more meaningful games on campuses. I I think that uh you know, and I love bowl season. Trust me, nobody loves to go to a bowl game that means nothing more than me. I love it. I absolutely like I'm serious about this. I love going to bowl games where there's like low stakes involved. It's just a nice trip to go watch a football team. It's beautiful.

[00:45:15]With that being said, probably don't need a lot of those bowl games anymore.

[00:45:20]But if you have those those on-site playoff games, those are much more hyped than insert, you know, low-level bowl.

[00:45:25]So, uh I certainly get that aspect of it. And then rankings become really important because there's going to be some politics put in there where it's like, hey, >> it's like there already isn't.

[00:45:35]>> But it's it's just going to get worse.

[00:45:37]It's going to be gross.

[00:45:37]>> Okay, now think about this. What's like the number I think all of us love this and we've seen it we're seeing it go we're seeing it slowly die away. I understand why. The non-conference big matchup, right? Oklahoma State, Alabama cancelled. I understand why. Okay, but guess what? You can't duck the smoke if you're in the playoffs. If you do your job and you win your conference, shoot, Auburn's coming to Stillwater, Oklahoma.

[00:46:07]You know what I'm saying? Like you you're holding the feet to the fire then and you get these big time football match ups. I mean, how many would that How many be that would they be nine?

[00:46:19]>> I don't even know. I don't >> I'm not good at that type of math at all.

[00:46:21]>> Okay. Anyways, you'd have a great slate of non-conference football games when it'd be an incredible slate for your first two weeks of playoffs. I I mean, it would be awesome.

[00:46:34]>> Counterpoint, you wouldn't get matchups like that in the beginning of the season like you saw with >> Ohio State and Texas.

[00:46:42]>> But those are dying. They're not Nobody's >> Wasn't that an awesome week one matchup?

[00:46:46]It was like, but we're all looking forward to this. Now, we don't have the regular season to look forward to. It's just let's look forward to the playoff.

[00:46:52]Who's in every freaking five minutes on your commercial because of ESPN? Who's in? Who's in? Who's in? I don't care right now. It's week three. Shut up.

[00:47:00]>> I mean, the Minnesota Vikings getting that non-conference game really in week one. You know what I'm saying? Like it does that doesn't that doesn't deter if we opened up conference and went straight through and he did play. I'm not saying that would happen, but I'm just saying that wouldn't make me any less hyped. And then I'd be like, "All right, man. Who's our playoff matchup?"

[00:47:19]like, "Oh, sweet. Old Miss, let's go.

[00:47:21]Let's go to hottie totty. Let's go, man.

[00:47:24]That would be huge."

[00:47:26]>> Nathan's made some points that have made me think. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to commit to 24 whatsoever. I again 16 it has both of these elements involved, >> but I will say that Nathan has made me think about this a little bit more than than maybe I would have.

[00:47:40]>> So, I like >> Nathan just killed the Rose Bowl. That's what he just did.

[00:47:45]>> Yeah. So, I think >> Rose Bowl, we don't get to play in the Rose Bowl anyway. It's just dead to me.

[00:47:48]Yeah, I think >> killed the Cotton Bowl.

[00:47:51]>> Killed the Alamo Bowl.

[00:47:52]>> I think the semiinal national championship.

[00:47:55]>> Those those can be at sightes. I think everything else needs to and I know Nathan keeps comparing it to the NFL. I sort of, you know, because it's like on campus, I sort of liking it to like a nice high school playoff like atmosphere where you're walking around on on Friday, everybody's a little bit nervous. Your your palms are sweaty, you're wearing your jersey like uh >> so >> he's palms are sweaty vomiting on your shirt already. Uh but still 16 16 >> mom spaghetti. Uh yeah, agreed. But those are dying off, right? Indiana just won a national championship by absolute cupcakes and they've been doing that ever since coaches been there. Co, you know, Lane Kein just talked about the same thing at LSU. He said he purposely did it at Miss. They were 22 and 0 in their non-conference games at Miss. It does not serve anybody in the top two conferences to continue to schedule those games.

[00:48:49]There's lose lose for them outside of revenue.

[00:48:53]So now you're going to force their hands.

[00:48:56]Let's go. Let's play football.

[00:48:59]Throw the ball out there.

[00:49:02]>> What happens to the sport I love?

[00:49:04]>> It's It's dying.

[00:49:08]It's like the little orangutang with the air mask on.

[00:49:15]It's on life support, man. We're gonna have got to do something.

[00:49:20]>> It's hilarious.

[00:49:21]>> All right. Well, I'm pretty sure softball's about to get started pretty soon. Delays can only last for so long.

[00:49:29]Marshall, kind of let you get back to that. This pod even ran longer than I thought it would for an offseason pod, of course, thanks to hypothetical situations where we're talking about a potential 2014 playoff in the future and how that's going to change everything.

[00:49:44]So, appreciate you guys hanging with us, enjoying that conversation.

[00:49:50]Drop your thoughts in the comments section below. I'm sure it's going to be a lot of great takes in there. I'm interested to hear what you have to say.

[00:49:58]If you would please like, share, and subscribe to show your support. We will see you next time. Keep those pistols firing and remember to reload. Go Pokes.