"Banging Our Heads Against the Wall!" Will Britain Benefit From the Crypto Boom?

本站添加: 2026-06-01

[00:00:03]On this week's episode of the Guy Fawkes Show, we're joined by Miller Whitehouse Levine, the founder and CEO of the Solana Policy Institute, a non-partisan, non-profit organization launched in Washington, D.C. to educate US policymakers on crypto in general.

[00:00:21]Miller, how are you doing and where are you joining from?

[00:00:25]>> Good morning. Thank you for having me. I am joining you from Washington, D.C.

[00:00:28]this morning.

[00:00:30]>> Fantastic. How's How's How's it all going there? I know there's a lot of crypto legislation going through Congress right now and you would have been super busy. I was just there about a week ago.

[00:00:39]>> [snorts] >> Yeah, it's total chaos.

[00:00:41]Uh there's the an insane amount of activity on crypto policy that hopefully will end with with another bill passing later this year.

[00:00:50]>> Fantastic. And And what are the opportunities for Americans then who are crypto holders and investors and for for business in the US with that with that legislation?

[00:01:01]>> Uh I think it's vast. You know, I think on consumers and users perspective, it would do a lot to clarify the protections and disclosures that they are entitled to and would bring a lot more safety to consumer interaction and uh user interaction with crypto and crypto products. So I think that from the consumer and user side is is the biggest advantage. Number two, for businesses, I think broadly in the crypto businesses, crypto developers, traditional financial institutions, banks, uh the bill would allow them to make business decisions driven primarily by business interests.

[00:01:45]And then from there, figure out what their regulatory obligations are.

[00:01:49]What I mean by that is it is would be a reversal of the I think calculus people have had to make in crypto over the last few years, where a lot of business decisions were being made or business opportunities couldn't even be explored for traditional financial institutions and banks because of the regulatory environment. I think you know, for crypto developers a lot of business decisions were being primarily driven by regulatory considerations that didn't make a whole lot of sense from accomplishing a policy objective reasonable policy objective perspective.

[00:02:27]So I think broadly that's what the the bill would do.

[00:02:30]>> Great. And how is Solana Policy Institute involved in shaping the conversation around these these kind of topics on the other side of the Atlantic?

[00:02:40]>> We're highly involved. It's it's an exhaustive process. There's 535 members of Congress.

[00:02:47]I would say there is probably about 100 that are have become fluent in crypto policy issues, which is I think incredible. Like a couple of years ago, even two members of Congress knowing what crypto was was an exciting development for us.

[00:03:01]So there's just a ton a ton of work to do around what the hell is crypto and what is Solana? Why do we think it has some promise and why do we need a regulatory framework to to bring some sanity to these markets?

[00:03:16]So you know, it's quite busy time right now because the legislation is moving and everyone's going to have to make decisions about it in short order.

[00:03:26]>> And just for just for any of the the audience here who who aren't familiar, take take us through what Solana actually is.

[00:03:33]>> Sure. Solana is a layer one public blockchain.

[00:03:36]So think about something like Bitcoin.

[00:03:39]Bitcoin is a application-specific blockchain. You can use the Bitcoin blockchain to conduct Bitcoin transactions. Ethereum took that concept and made it general purpose. You can launch different programs going smart contracts on Ethereum and it doesn't have to just be a payment. It could also be a trading protocol or something like that. Uh Solana is similarly is a general purpose public blockchain and it works differently than Ethereum. The goal being higher throughput of transactions such that any excuse me, the global economy can run on a single public blockchain.

[00:04:24]>> Yeah, and that's kind of very different to how the fiat global economy runs now where basically settlements and transactions are made between banks.

[00:04:32]This is a completely new uh form of infrastructure, isn't it? For the the activity of the global economy.

[00:04:40]>> That's exactly right. The idea is to create an internet for economic activity. So, like I can send a text message or an email to you Ross instantaneously from Washington DC to London.

[00:04:54]We could do that with transfer of value using this public infrastructure.

[00:04:59]>> Yeah, I mean it has huge potential for democratizing access to finance and so on. But let's let's get back a little bit and just focus on what I think our listeners will be most interested in which is how the US crypto industry perceives what's happening in Britain and perceives the UK. So, I think it's fair to say the UK and the US took very different approaches to to crypto regulation and deregulation over the past couple of years. Broadly speaking, the the picture here is still a long way less further down the road than than you guys are in the US. Is is Britain getting it right or is it getting it wrong or is the UK just simply too slow?

[00:05:44]>> Uh you know, I I'm always reticent to uh offer any potential criticism of a jurisdiction of which I am not a member, but I think from my perspective, uh I've been I've been you know, working on crypto policy and from arms length in in the UK for 6 7 years now.

[00:06:05]And I think the objectives of UK policy makers across multiple governments have uh been those we share. They want to establish the same rate sane regulatory framework and promote innovation. I think the uh the problem from my perspective and I think many folks in industry's perspective is the policies they adopt uh or seem to promote are in our view counter to those overall objectives. I think that uh you know, there's been some uh open-mindedness evidenced even uh by for example, the Bank of England over the last couple of weeks that is encouraging. Uh but I think overall, it's uh it's been a bit of uh you know, head banging one's head against the wall situation in that we share the goals, but uh not the not the tactic.

[00:06:56]>> Yeah. So, in [snorts] the UK, there's a multi-layered regulatory environment because you have the Bank of England, you have the FCA, the Financial Conducts Authority.

[00:07:03]Uh the Treasury is involved in kind of setting the macro um approach to crypto.

[00:07:08]Is the regulatory environment in the UK substantially uh less clear than it is in the in in the US? And tell us about what's happened in the US recently in the second Trump administration with Genius and Clarity, which are kind of the two key pieces of reform.

[00:07:23]>> Yeah, I would say like on average, prior to 2025 of the Genius Act, the UK regime has uh been clearer overall. I think it's been clearly more hostile, unfortunately.

[00:07:35]And I think that's a particularly uh true on the market and um uh regulatory side. I think that's totally changed with the genius act, you know, we have federal legislation now that has you know, crystal clear regulatory obligations for stable coins and so I think that passing last year kind of leapfrogged the the US's regime for stable coins beyond the UK's. Uh but because we don't have this clarity act done yet and you know, the federal regulatory agencies have not yet uh indivi- independently acted to address many of these concerns.

[00:08:11]On the market regulatory side, I think the UK has been and remains a bit at least on paper ahead of the US. Uh again, I think just the the challenge from our perspective is that they it is clearly more hostile or or skeptical of everything that crypto is trying to build than the US has been.

[00:08:31]>> Mhm. I think the reason for the regulatory approach here is is the general skepticism that there is about crypto. So, there's a lot of that in in in the media here. Um why why is that skepticism so prominent? Is it is it well-placed or is it misplaced? And you know, is there more to crypto than just this reflex view that it's an industry that actually is is somehow harmful to the interests of ordinary consumers because that's pretty much the tone of most coverage here. I think it's not unfair to say.

[00:09:09]>> Uh well, I'll start with I think the uh the conclusion that all of this is fraud up is totally wrong. Uh you know, I got into crypto and DeFi because in my view, there is no other technology that has the potential to or even the desire to uh expand financial services and access to the global economy to the 5 billion people that today don't have access to those services and access to that global market. I think that's a noble goal that we should all be pursuing. I appreciate that there are different ways to try and pursue it, but again, I don't see a technology or space out there that is even attempting to do so, and I think it would be just a massive unlock for human flourishing globally that we should all be pursuing.

[00:09:56]Uh all of that said, I think that much of the skepticism of the industry to date has been totally well-founded.

[00:10:04]You know, there is unfortunately a lot of funny business that has gone on in the crypto markets over the last several years, and I think that is in no small part due to the fact that there isn't a clear regulatory and legal framework for these businesses and technologies in major economies. I think, you know, the ambiguity of the legal landscape only benefits folks that are trying to operate, you know, a bit more far outside of the bounds of what is right or legal, and regulating it will put it end to that. So, I think I don't criticize or have take issue with folks that have developed a skepticism of the space over the last few years because I do think it's totally justified. I think the answer to that skepticism and concern should be establishing a sane regulatory framework instead of trying to prevent any of this from happening cuz it's, you know, not going to be prevented.

[00:11:04]>> And and what are the potential upsides for the UK specifically if we get that regulatory regime right? I mean, what what how do people, you know, ordinary consumers, the people on the high street stand to benefit from a more sensible, robust, developed regulatory framework for crypto?

[00:11:24]>> I think on the one hand, there will put it end to many of like the frauds and scam potentials that have hurt a lot of consumers in uh, in not just the UK, but many jurisdictions around the world. I think at for at a more macro level, I um, uh, in developed economies, most of this uh, blockchain infrastructure will be essentially back-end infrastructure for the financial system that will make it cheaper for folks, uh, to use finance the financial services that they already enjoy access to today.

[00:11:58]I think on the economic side of the equation, like the business side of of, uh, of the equation, the UK has historically been, you know, the center of global finance and, uh, it's in in a good time zone. Everyone loves London, uh, and I think there's, you know, a strong desire to, uh, build in the UK and, uh, you know, there's several crypto companies there that, uh, have been committed to the long term.

[00:12:24]So, I think there's like a massive opportunity to continue to, uh, rebuild the UK's position as, uh, a leader in global finance using, um, using crypto.

[00:12:36]>> Yeah, and and what are the what are the attractions of doing business in London then for crypto businesses or more broadly in the UK? I mean, you you mentioned the financial history of the the sector here in the UK and obviously the strength of the City of London globally as a major financial center is is preeminent. Um, what what what what are the attractions of of coming to the UK then for these businesses? Because the government here nominally says that it's very committed to attracting inward investment into the UK as a as a generator of economic growth.

[00:13:09]>> Uh, well, I think beyond the few things I mentioned, uh, I think in my view the rule of law is very important and the UK has a well-established legal system. We copied it a bit over here and, uh, I suppose it's gone okay over the last couple of hundred years.

[00:13:25]Uh, and then I, you know, the UK has probably the preeminent uh, or some of the most preeminent universities in the human capital and human talent of any country in the world. Uh, I think to your point, the government, uh, similarly to their crypto policy, has a lot of objectives that I agree with that implement policies that are uh, contradictory to those objectives. So, I don't know if, um, you know, the in my view the current government has uh, uh, succeeded in in pursuing their stated objective on, um, inward investment to the UK.

[00:14:01]>> Well, we'll let the audience be the judge of that, but my answer will be will be people can guess. So, let's let's get deeper into one of the topics which is really newsworthy here, which is stable coins. So, what what is a stable coin because many people won't know, and what's happening in the UK with with stable coins?

[00:14:21]>> Sure. Uh, so, a stable coin is just a crypto asset that is pegged to some reference asset. Most of the time people are talking about stable coins, they're talking about stable coins that reference some fiat currency. So, for example, in the US, uh, there are many issuers of dollar stable coins. You take your fiat dollar to them, and they put it in a bank account, and give you a token representing $1 or that is worth $1 and is backed by that one fiat dollar in the bank account.

[00:14:53]>> So, it's a little bit like a currency that's pegged to the dollar or something. It goes lots of countries, yeah.

[00:15:00]And and and what's happening in the UK with these these stable coins?

[00:15:04]>> Uh, not like yet.

[00:15:07]Uh, but there's a lot happening at FCA and the Bank of England. So, it seems like the UK is generally adopting an approach where the FCA will regulate, uh, issuers until they become systemic of UK stable coins. Uh, so, you could start up the FCA with a registration there and to the extent your UK stable coin could become systemic or is systemic, your regulatory framework would transition over to the Bank of England. So, Bank of England is in in the midst of developing their framework for potentially systemic pound stable coins at the moment.

[00:15:44]>> And why does it matter what technology a stable coin runs on? And I mean specifically which blockchain or what blockchain?

[00:15:52]And talk about if people don't know what what the blockchain is, just briefly explain what it is.

[00:15:58]>> Sure. So, the blockchain is similar to what I described at the top around what is Solana.

[00:16:04]The Bitcoin blockchain is the blockchain on which the Bitcoin software runs, so to speak. The Ethereum blockchain is the software, is the general purpose computer that you can run those programs on. Same with Solana.

[00:16:18]Those are public blockchains, which means anyone with an internet connection can access them and use them without having to ask for anyone's permission, without having to set up an account, etc. That to me is the core innovation of blockchains. We're trying to, similar to the internet, create global infrastructure that anyone can use to transfer value and participate in the global economy. Exact same thing that the internet did for information.

[00:16:47]That can only be done with a system that is public infrastructure. It can't be done via a permission system or an account-based model because then you just end up with a traditional financial institution without all of the distribution and and reach of public blockchains and the internet.

[00:17:09]I mention that because the Bank of England and I think the UK is debating whether to use so-called private blockchains or enterprise blockchains for stablecoin issuance versus public blockchains. And I think the the debate there is a bit of a I suppose it's in my mind not even a choice because I think if you're doing a stablecoin on a private blockchain, you've not accomplished anything. You're not taking advantage of the underlying innovation of the entire technology which is this public infrastructure through which you could distribute pounds to anyone in the world that wants it. And that means anyone with an internet connection. I think that's the real power and I think I think the Bank of England is aware of that power because I think they're quite concerned about the genius X ability to unleash dollar access to anyone in the world that is seeking dollars for I think from my perspective, you know, the the mistake that the Bank of England seems to be starting with from there is saying we can fight that trend and don't need to compete for the global market and I think that would be a big disservice to to the pound status and you know, ability to to grow and be used more broadly in the future. So I think that's like the big the big debate right now on what type of chain this should be allowed on in the UK.

[00:18:40]>> It's interesting because I think what you're saying there is that some of these technologies which sound very novel and new to people, there are applications where actually the US government for example was clearly pursuing a strategy to dominate in these technological domains basically for the benefit also of the the fiat US dollar.

[00:18:59]So it's not it's not just about crypto assets. It's actually about developing this and and kind of owning this financial infrastructure from a US point of view because it will in further entrench the the dollar as the global reserve currency, right?

[00:19:16]>> That's 100% right. And you know, I think it's uh that's why the genius act I think is been quite catalyzing to uh every central bank around the world and most jurisdictions around the world who are uh thinking about how do we protect the status and use of our currency. There's massive demand for the US dollar internationally that is not uh filled via the traditional financial system and you know, governments I think intentionally like that uh like to do that. You know, for example, in Turkey, you can't go sell a bunch of lira for US dollars notwithstanding the lira is uh in hyper inflating and now via dollar stablecoins, you can do so. So, uh you know, I think uh from the US perspective, it's a a way to expand uh the US's dollar dominance and entrench just get dollars into more people's hands and uh it's working.

[00:20:15]>> Mhm.

[00:20:15]And as we as we think about wrapping up, uh what what role can Solana Policy Institute play here in the UK then? I mean, I know that you're very uh understandably US focused. Um but what what are your ambitions and your interests uh on this side of the pond?

[00:20:32]>> Russ, I'm so glad you understand. I'm going to plug that we are hiring for someone in the UK because uh you know, as a stupid American, we have no business doing uh work in in a UK on crypto policy, but I look into looking for someone to lead our efforts out there. Uh because for all the reasons I mentioned uh around, you know, why the UK is attractive to business and should be committed to attracting it, uh we want to be in the UK, crypto wants to be in the UK and that means uh investing in the policy landscape. So, if anyone uh any listeners are interested, uh reach out because we're looking for we're looking for someone to lead our efforts on the ground in the UK.

[00:21:12]>> Fantastic. And just to just to wrap up, um how do you see then the the reality playing out here in the next 5 years in the UK? I mean, I know you're a keen student of UK politics as well and that you follow you follow developments here in London pretty pretty closely. Um how how do you see the overall landscape and by that I don't just mean crypto, I mean, you know, how how is the UK actually perceived then by US policy makers because there are quite a lot of us who worry at the moment the US-UK relationship is fractured under the current UK government over lots of issues that are nothing to do with uh crypto. They're they're more to do with geopolitics. Iran is is a common one.

[00:21:50]Both the UK and the US governments took very different approaches there.

[00:21:53]But there have been some big differences on things like tech regulation and um allowing US tech businesses uh to operate more freely in the UK. So, what what's the status of of the UK in in the eyes of the kind of DC Beltway?

[00:22:09]>> Uh I think it depends on which party you're talking to. I think uh for the administration and Republicans in power, there is a real desire to see the UK and uh other European partners invest in their own growth and choose uh you know, choose a future of abundance and investment in key sources of national power, be that the economy, the military, etc. I think you know, how that is communicated is not always uh super elegant or polite, but I do think that is the the underlying objective. Like I think the current administration wants powerful allies that have robust economies and strong militaries because uh you know, uh aside from everything you just said, like on the fundamentals, the UK and the US uh agree on almost everything like our system is completely built on on the UK system. So I think I think that's the overall perspective. I do think that there are a bunch of frustrations to your point on both sides of of of the relationship. I will say the King's visit. I've never seen a more successful state visit in my entire career.

[00:23:29]He took this city by storm a few weeks ago and I honestly think it like was a major inflection point in at least the vibe of the relationship which which was fun to see.

[00:23:43]>> Definitely definitely it was certainly a very impressive visit and I think you know as much as we can say I think it came at just the right time in the relationship. So that's that's good to hear. Miller it was great speaking to you and you know on this side of the pond at least having a cup of tea with you.

[00:24:00]Hopefully there will be some some crypto crypto brains in the audience who take up your offer on thinking about how to develop this thinking here in the UK and I know as the political conversation develops here this topic is only going to become more covered more talked about it's it's something where education of policy makers is still pretty low.

[00:24:23]So there's a lot of work to do here in the UK and next time I'm in DC I'll swing by the Solana policy Institute.

[00:24:31]>> Awesome. Thank you so much for having me.