The Profile of Purpose: Owning Your Journey

[00:00:00]And for the finale of the Her and Now podcast by me, Anel, the guests are incredible, founder and owner of L Kings, the hair and beauty brand that did not just dream big, but found itself on the shelves of clicks. She's here to give us the blueprint, the real story behind building, scaling, and surviving business as a woman. What ambition costs and what resilience requires and what it actually takes to move from hustle to legacy. Then we have Masamangini, internationally acclaimed actress whose latest work can be found on Apple TV.

[00:00:34]The movie is called Sniper No Nation.

[00:00:36]One of the most prolific thespians of our time. But beyond the brilliance on screen, what has always drawn me to Masasa is her honesty. She's never been shy to speak about therapy, healing, accountability, and the deeply uncomfortable work of becoming whole.

[00:00:50]Because success means very little if you arrive broken and stay broken. We shot this in front of a live studio audience at First for Women. This, ladies and gentlemen, is the finale. Enjoy.

[00:01:07]>> So, over the past, say six episodes right on uh this podcast, we've spoken to every type of woman. We've spoken to the business woman who runs business.

[00:01:17]We've spoken to the business woman who is the business. Because that's another thing about us women. Okay. As soon as you're the one making the scon, you're the one that is the product, your skill set, you know, you're the one making the the product that's going to go into your hair, you don't consider yourself a business. It's almost like a, >> you know, you dilute yourself.

[00:01:36]>> The thing you're doing on the side.

[00:01:38]Yeah. Because you have time. And you don't regard yourself as a business. And what's been really lovely about this Her and Now podcast is that we've made women realize, you know, you're not going to help anyone, especially yourself by minimizing yourself, by diluting yourself, by shrinking yourself.

[00:01:55]>> So for the finale, we thought because the birth of this podcast was on this very stage a year ago when uh First Woman interviewed thousands of women and came with the First Woman Women's Report, her and now. and just the insights that women said and what what they were feeling. It was almost a a conventional where women were speaking without having to put their hands up and saying I feel this. So then I knew for a fact that there was an absolute honesty there because you were just letting the results speak and then we got the results and we thought okay we have to have these conversations about you know the burden of strength uh you know control uh you know depression >> uh body images absolutely everything safety 8% of women in South Africa feel safe >> that is shocking and heartbreaking at the same time >> yeah only eight and I want to speak to that 8% of women and be like where >> where is where is this place that you feel safe because I live in an estate there are literally gods upon gods and then there's other houses I always feel like no you'll rob the other houses before you get to me but even in my house if I'm the only one there I lock myself in my room right if I have to take a shower and there's one in the house I'm just like I don't want somebody to be here I I give me a fighting chance >> dude I I live in a building where there's two sets of securityurities before you get to my main door like the building door.

[00:03:17]>> Are you on the ground floor?

[00:03:18]>> I'm on the second floor.

[00:03:19]>> I mean, listen to that.

[00:03:20]>> And when you get to the door, you have to ring me or you need to be living there. But even I, you know, when when your house stretches itself, like a cupboard decides to stretch when you're in the shower and you're thinking, "Oh, who's here? They're in the house." It doesn't matter how how safe you've made yourself feel.

[00:03:37]>> We live in a space where your your safety kind of also relies on someone else. It doesn't you've locked yourself up in the most safe place and you still panic. But here's the thing about safety is that it's not just physical safety.

[00:03:50]Yeah. South African women are not emotionally safe from the partners that we're with. South African women are not financially safe from the jobs that we're in where you know for a fact that the man is getting paid more than you.

[00:04:00]>> South African women are not psychologically safe because of the danger of any of your safety being pulled out from underneath of you. And this is why we're wrapping up today to just we're speaking to every type of woman. Speaking to the mom who's worried about her child's safety. We're speaking to the career woman who's worried about her business safety. We're speaking to the creative who's done world projects and still, you know, there is that element of am I going to be safe anywhere else physically, emotionally, financially. First up, I have admired her >> from afar, right?

[00:04:30]>> And uh I mean she almost came close to being a a sister-in-law kind of >> my my husband's very good friend. And I I hadn't even met her properly. Like her and I have like seen each other there and there. But when I found out she was dating like my husband's friend, I was like, "We having a wedding."

[00:04:49]So yeah. Yeah. I'm saying a lot, but we we going to fix it, girl. We going to fix it. But today, um I'm just so happy that she's here because she is a businesswoman. She's done this for close to 10 years now. Uh people think that it's a breeze. She makes it look like it's easy. Uh but it's not. It's not easy. And I And she's just cute and charming. And I like that about her that somebody can come across so soft, so vulnerable, so cute, so charming, yet put some real results on the scoreboard.

[00:05:16]Ladies and gentlemen, she is the founder of Love Kinguya Monta.

[00:05:28]Get in here, girl. Get in here. Get in here.

[00:05:32]>> Did I just say a lot there?

[00:05:34]>> A lot.

[00:05:36]And he was also like taken into consideration that I'm a little bit starruck. So really I have your book from back in the day.

[00:05:44]>> Oh wow.

[00:05:44]>> I bought it with my varsity um don't pocket money.

[00:05:49]>> I loved it. Hi >> Nea is like there they go buying the wrong book.

[00:05:54]>> I didn't qualify. I didn't qualify. Um but I've always been a fan of your work.

[00:05:59]Oh, well, I'm a fan of your work and and and every time, you know, I look at you and you know, you're doing something, >> I always say to people that, do you know how difficult it is to get contracts >> on a paper and then products start moving, right? Especially with a retail giant like clicks.

[00:06:20]>> How do you get that right?

[00:06:22]>> How do you get it right? I think when you don't even know that, like I didn't even know that this is what something that I wanted to do. Like I never dreamed of being an entrepreneur. I never dreamed of having hair products.

[00:06:31]So something that I've built as time went by and along the along the way people tell you you need this, you need this. So I met the founders of Superbist and I was looking for funding. And the guy asked me why why are you doing this?

[00:06:43]And I was like ah cuz I want I want everyone to have a high quality product because we don't have that anywhere. And then they were like oh that's not good enough. We can't fund that. I was like oh what are you funding? we're funding a highly profitable business that can scale and get into a retailer. I was like, "Oh, so now I need to get into a retailer. Which retailer?" I like, "Oh, which retailer do you go to?" I was like, "I go to Clicks every almost every other week."

[00:07:04]And they were like, "Yeah." So scale to launch at Clicks. So I was like, "Oh, this is 2021."

[00:07:09]>> So I've built it as with time and advice from professionals. So I think they were the first people and they're like, "Let's see the product." We show them the product and they say, "Uh, where's the packaging? We don't care how good the product is. we buying the packaging.

[00:07:24]>> So he said tomorrow you wake up and you find packaging. He says you have to build your business to a point where it's clicks ready. If clicks knocks on your door tomorrow you have to be clicks ready.

[00:07:34]>> So along the along the way you get guidance but obviously you also have to like have discernment and start like understanding who to get guidance from and who not to take guidance from.

[00:07:44]>> Do you know what I like cuz I'm listening to you speak and this person to me sounds like a mentor to you, right? There is this notion amongst women that when you're looking for a mentor, you must find a female mentor.

[00:07:54]>> Yeah. And all the time, I mean, I I I myself have been looking for someone that I can be that close with, can guide me as well, and I've never >> even really considered. And it's so crazy because I've also got a lot of males around me. Absolutely brilliant.

[00:08:10]that are also that are sounding boards when I make decisions. But when I've thought of a mentor, I I think there's something about looking at a woman for me that has always felt like I think they we will understand each other on that part.

[00:08:21]>> I've always believed that your mentor shouldn't even be in the same industry as you >> because you you guys are in competition with each other and they're going to teach you the same thing and they can't teach you more than they know, right? So all you're doing is you're wanting to land yourself at where they are. Whereas if you find a mentor in construction, when you have an issue, when you have a problem, they approach it as if they're solving a construction problem. Because if if you're going to want to say what you do is serious, what selling hair is serious, you're constructing something, you're putting something together, there's foundations, there's pillars, there's layers.

[00:08:53]>> Funny enough, the the females, okay, my customer is a black female. So the fe black females I've looked to for mentorship didn't give me what I needed.

[00:09:02]For example, my my older sister, very successful, sits on boards, but like she couldn't give me um she couldn't give me an honest opinion about a product. She'd be like, "Oh, it's great. The product can't be great. I'm still testing it."

[00:09:13]>> And I find that when I speak, obviously, the male mentors can't test the products. But I mean, they're very matter of fact. What's your what's your profit margin? Um >> why are you doing this? Like they're just so matterof fact and it gives you tools to like wake up and say, "Okay, this is what I'm going to do tomorrow."

[00:09:29]So with females, I find that you also need that side. But okay, so with business, >> you bring that side, >> but also in business, you have two sides, right? You've got the technical side, the profits and you've got the I'm sad, I'm depressed, I'm anxious, how do I show up for business if I just I'm going through a breakup or whatever. So the females do bring that softness on that and that guidance of what? But with the men, they I find that even women in business cuz there's one woman who's much older. I think for with her is cuz she's 63.

[00:09:59]>> She was able to take out the emotion and give me the true facts.

[00:10:04]>> So she she she tested my products in 2022 and and was in glass bottles and she was huh and it's it's giving cheap cuz it's oily now you're dripping the oil and it's all over your hands. And she was like I don't want to touch the product. Change the packaging. But I feel like with my sister, maybe because she's younger, she would have been too scared to hurt my feelings and say it cheap packaging or find something else.

[00:10:26]Even with my packaging, the older lady, when I showed her my packaging, she was like, "No, it's not it. It's not it. Do something else." So then I was using a logo designer to do my packaging. And then I had to hire a packaging designer, which I paid money that I'd never ever thought I'd pay anyone for the packaging. I thought of yourself.

[00:10:43]>> Exactly. And I but yeah so along the way like you you find different wells of wisdom in different people as long as it doesn't come from the place that you think it's going to come from.

[00:10:53]>> Yeah.

[00:10:54]>> Do you think you have to have leadership skills to start a business?

[00:10:58]>> I think you can develop them.

[00:10:59]>> Um I know how to lead myself. I'm learning how to lead people and it's completely different. Um I don't need to be motivated. I don't need anyone to tell me anything. I'm brilliant at anything that I do. So I love that with Thank you. But with other people, you find that when you're leading people, um, they've got different needs. Like my my focus is love kings and I know why I'm doing it. They don't have the same why. So now you have to sort of teach them the why, bring them onto the the the program and then Yeah. And that I'm learning. I'm still learning how to lead. I've actually struggled the most with employees and learning to lead. And I even got to a point where I hired an HR company and having that person in between cuz I'm very passionate. I'm just like, you get it or you don't. But unfortunately, you have to get people to get it. You have to teach people to get it.

[00:11:44]>> And and you have to remember that it's your vision. So you see where it's going. You can't force people to see what you're seeing. They're just there to support your vision.

[00:11:51]>> 100%. And you can't do it alone. At the time, I tried to do it alone. I was doing when click started, I was shipping everything myself. I went I was at the chiropractor's office every week >> because like as in picking up the stuff yourself and putting them in in trucks and all of that. Look, I wasn't physically picking up, but I got someone on the grounds, found someone to pick the stuff up, put it on the palace. I was finding the palace. I was doing everything. And >> And you still had to have a club card >> cuz you know, you can't do anything without that card >> actually. And I still I still had to pack orders to customers. Like I was trying to do it all. So I think now I've realized, okay, I can't do it by myself.

[00:12:28]I need to create the scale to lead and I need to lead people to see the vision and where we're going >> and yeah so I'm much better at that but that's my only focus for this year is becoming a better leader.

[00:12:41]>> Okay. Um and you are you know that you can be that right?

[00:12:44]>> I know I know for a fact I doubted it like let's say two to three years ago but I think it takes a lot of EQ. It takes a lot of shifting perspective. I'm also in therapy. My therapist really helps me. So you don't take it personally. Yeah. So you also understand that people are looking for certain income. I've increased income. Um at first I' I' I'd offer a certain income and then say okay over time a person will prove themselves. But actually it almost works the other way around. You have to give the income to motivate and then you build the role. So yeah I'm I'm learning. But that's my only goal literally for this year is to learn how to lead create the best team. And I like a one focus goal a year. Last year it was just clicks. the year before I took the year off and then the three or four years before that I was building the company and scaling and introducing products and everything.

[00:13:28]>> So here's the thing that mo most women u shy away from and I I say this my stats are loosely based. They're not like the first woman reports that's real. What I'm about to say is loosely based on anal view and the things that she's read and seen and followed up on. when you're hiring, right? Um when you are faced with someone who you can see kind of wants to be you and better than you type of thing and you kind of shy away from somebody who's going to come and and still have a side hustle, right? Cuz you want somebody to be yours. You it's almost like you're treating it like a romantic relationship. No, they must work for me and they must work for only me. Could we dabble with the fact that you do want somebody who's entrepreneurial still working for you as the entrepreneur? Because it is that entrepreneurial spirit that is going to propel kings.

[00:14:21]>> The best employees I've had have their own businesses. There's a lady called Dulami. She had her own Shopify. She was selling on Techot. I was buying her product that she was obviously when she's shipping at Tech and then but she was selling tripods. I remember she was selling bags. There's these like diamante bags with a dollar sign. I've never used it, but I bought it from her.

[00:14:41]And um my lady that I'm with now, she um has an Uber um on the side. So, you need people that sort of >> um have a drive that you can't give to them like that thing when I don't need motivation. So, they're already motivated, but then also um also like obviously uh channel them into your thing as well. Yeah.

[00:15:01]>> And not be threatened by them.

[00:15:02]>> And not be threatened by them. Yes.

[00:15:04]Because what going back to the safety thing, >> our safety at work comes in making sure that no one else is as good as you, which is weird for me.

[00:15:11]>> No, actually that's what I wanted to say. I want people that are better than me. I even say to her old time when I started Love Kings, I even say to her, you would create a better Love Kings than I've created. Cuz when I started Love Kings, I was not as even used to say to her, you have I've made I made as if I packed 10,000 orders. I made let's say >> 100 mistakes and you've made 20 mistakes. So, you're better than me.

[00:15:34]Like, but but I get it that even though they're better in certain aspects, doesn't mean they would have done everything because you need my history, you need my why, you need my um ecosystem. But I see aspects in them that are better than aspects in me. Like yesterday, we were at the store room, not yesterday, the day before yesterday, and we wanted to pack a palette cuz we didn't want to do it this morning cuz this morning we're here and the truck was going to come, I think, yesterday, whatever. So, I said to, "Okay, cool.

[00:15:59]Let's pack this palette and then let's let's find a place to put it so that it doesn't rain." So, we checked the weather forecast. She's like, "No, it's not going to rain." There was no rain forecasted. She's like, "Okay, we can put it under the parking lot just in case it rains.

[00:16:10]>> Story is going to end badly."

[00:16:12]>> And then I was like, "No, but then what if it rains?" So, I'm like that. Like, I don't take shows. I'm not optimistic at all. I'm very realistic. So, I was like, "No, sometimes the weather app is wrong.

[00:16:20]What if it rains?" So, eventually we find like a solution like, "What? What would we put it in this?" And we found a solution together. I said, "Oh, you're so smart. I wouldn't have thought of that." So, I want someone who can plug my my my my blind spots. I have them. I have the blind spots.

[00:16:32]>> But yeah, so I want people that are better in me that better than me in certain aspects. Yeah.

[00:16:37]>> So outside of hair and money, what's your currency?

[00:16:40]>> Love.

[00:16:42]>> Oh, >> but like it started in the craziest way.

[00:16:46]Love. Love. That's where the name came from.

[00:16:49]>> Love it. Love it. you before you can always used to say my mom because I've always embodied that. I remember when I was young and like every I think once a week we'd have Bible Bible study.

[00:17:11]>> So then you have to choose a scripture and um you'd have to and everything. And then I don't know why I'm going to say this, but like I was seen as a bit slow like academically. So I did like >> all of us girls. That's why we here talking.

[00:17:26]>> Can I feel better about that?

[00:17:27]>> The guys that are crunching numbers are in the crowd.

[00:17:29]>> So my sister, she was the smart one. She did accounting and all these things. So my mom s like her strength is the love part. So you had to choose this scripture. So in my slowness, I used to choose the same scripture every week guys like for 5 years. I didn't pick up that you're supposed to be like changing your scripture. I >> This was mine.

[00:17:49]>> This was mine.

[00:17:50]>> Which scripture was it?

[00:17:51]>> First Corinthians chapter 13 verse 40 verse 4 to7. So the love the love is does not envy. Um so that for 5 years that's all I said but no no one corrected me. My mom my mom never said I'm done proverbs 31 or something.

[00:18:10]>> The Bible has got so much.

[00:18:11]>> Yeah. Yes. So, even when we came up with the name for Love Kings, my sister was like, "Okay, I want something that it's a double antandra or like a triple antra. I want something that's a play on words." And then I was like, "It has to have the word love cuz you know that's who I am." And then I was like, "Okay, cool. Love hair. Love your hair." And then I was like, "Oh, I like the the fact that the word kinky kinks could mean like kinky, you know, like virgin active. And then also the kinks of life like and then also your kinky hair. That's the most literal." Yes. Yes. has the most literal meaning, the kinky pattern.

[00:18:43]>> M I was speaking before we came on here that the thing about hair, right, especially for women, >> it's such an emotional thing.

[00:18:49]>> Yeah, it is.

[00:18:50]>> And do you do you realize that you are literally molding, growing, selling us how we emotionally feel about ourselves >> and see ourselves >> 100%.

[00:19:01]>> Do you realize that?

[00:19:02]>> That's my why. Yeah.

[00:19:03]>> Oh, really?

[00:19:04]>> Yes. So, I cut my hair in 20 uh 10 years a not 10 years, like 11 years ago, 2015.

[00:19:11]I'm not good with numbers, but yeah, 2015. And I like guys, I was told like I felt horrible. I wore a hat to work. The first time cutting my hair ever in my whole life.

[00:19:23]>> But you had like the big fro >> before. No, no, I cut my hair from relaxed hair.

[00:19:27]>> So, I only cut it 11 years ago for the first time ever having natural hair.

[00:19:30]>> Coming to the fro.

[00:19:31]>> Yes. starting the buting >> and I felt I've never felt so ugly. So I realized that a lot of my pretty identity comes from my hair >> and I struggled and guys I was on YouTube. I was everywhere finding solutions for this thing. I wore a hat to work for 3 weeks straight.

[00:19:49]So I started growing a little bit. Yeah.

[00:19:51]Then it feels like it stops. And then I went I bought coconut oil. I was doing I was just growing my hair so that it's long enough to braid.

[00:19:57]>> Uh so hiding it hiding I think I braided at six weeks. forced it. Then I realized, wow, wow, this is such an uncomfortable fe. I started speaking about it on Instagram and I got a lot of followers. So even on my packaging, I'll say I found a community of women that were yearning to love their hair the way that I was. So indeed, Galian Lab was we started it together and I was like this coconut oil thing doesn't work and I did. So I had just done my thesis also two years two years before that. So I was still in that spirit of knowing how to do research. I researched this thing.

[00:20:24]I was doing a thesis on Instagram and I got like 20,000 followers just from talking about this hair thing.

[00:20:30]>> Wow.

[00:20:31]>> And yeah, and I was an I had a full-time 9 toive job as an urban and regional planner working in Rose Bank. I never thought like I used to actually not like entrepreneurs cuz to me they were just like scammers like like literally like hustling like my dad is an entrepreneur every day stress like yo I month end like I don't want to live like that. I like the safety of a 9 to5. I know how much I'm getting at the end of the month. I know what I'm working with. So, I had never like planned to become an entrepreneur. Then the followers just grew. And then 2019, I had 40,000 followers. Then I got a a contract from Unity, a one-year contract. So, then um I saw then Nike approached me. So, a lot of brands wanted to associate themselves with a young girl with an afro trying to figure it out.

[00:21:11]>> Then I was like, okay, cool. A contract covers. What else do I need? And I'm posting once or twice a week. So, if I'm posting every day is >> so yeah. So I left my job in 2019, April and that I registered Love King August 2019 and >> the rest is history.

[00:21:27]>> The rest is history. I >> I think more than anything what I'm hearing here is how purpose can find you when you're on another journey.

[00:21:33]>> Right. Do you feel like your purpose because you had a completely different career where you studied for that and went on to do uh great things in that industry?

[00:21:42]>> By the way, she said she's stupid and then she like then I was like this. I'm like this is not one of us. No, they told me I was slow when I was younger.

[00:21:49]>> Are you not one of us?

[00:21:51]>> I was thinking like I remember I got 55% 60%. I wasn't an A student.

[00:21:57]>> That was good.

[00:22:00]>> Trust me. But talk to me about purpose, right? Being on one path and then something else really smashing into you and you walking into it and feeling like I think this is what I was always meant to be doing.

[00:22:11]>> I think I've always been quite spiritual. Um so even in the journey before I had this feeling of lack like not not lack fin well financially I was lacking but like I'm just talking about like the emptiness. It's like I think with women like now I'm yearning to have a child. I'm 35 but you I know very deeply that I want a child. So it was like a wanting for a thing that I didn't know. M >> so when people started responding when I'd say something online and like this doesn't work the person says oh that also didn't work for me and then it filled up that it started filling up that lag so the purpose was built with the communicating and getting the feedback it's like a feedback like loop and then um so yeah it it you can't escape it so spiritually when something calls you when you know it's your it's your thing you can't fight it but you have so many other options why why don't you gravitate towards those options like I could gravitate to this one this one I've never doubted I don't ask all my friends for opinions about it. I just wake up and I know I like that. I like that.

[00:23:07]>> Yeah. I don't need like the mentors they help cuz I don't have the technical knowhow for certain things. But the things that I know like my gut like I studied um >> I went on to study marketing. So I did a post-graduate diploma in marketing for this role. I didn't have to ask a thousand people but should I do this? I said I'm doing this marketing role so that I can execute LKings to the best of my ability because I like to be brilliant at everything that I do.

[00:23:29]>> So um I think you just kind it's like a calling. It's bigger than you. I don't want to also just not make it tangible cuz how do you explain a calling? But here and I'm here for it big time.

[00:23:41]>> So she's going to join us again um when we all are seated around here. But for now, please round of applause for >> next guest. Listen, she has been on every channel this country has, right?

[00:23:57]>> Yeah. And I remember the first time I fell in love with her as an actress at there was a scene. It was in Scandal and somebody was walking in and she was at a party >> and somebody was walking in and I looked at her face and I said the director did not tell her to pull that face.

[00:24:14]>> That came from her and it it was almost like a director can tell you you know somebody walks in and and you don't like them. Somebody walks in and you're angry at them. A director can't say show disdain, right? And I I remember saying to my sisters like she showed disdain. And to me that just showed that we're dealing with somebody who didn't go to work, right?

[00:24:43]She just went to be the essence, the pure essence, >> the pure execution of excellence. And ever since then, everything Masamang has been part of has been extreme. women.

[00:24:54]This is why I had to bring her here for you guys. Ladies and gents, masa.

[00:25:03]>> Wow.

[00:25:04]>> You're sitting there.

[00:25:04]>> Oh my gosh.

[00:25:05]>> With your disdain face.

[00:25:08]>> She was like face of disappointment.

[00:25:10]>> That's my good morning face.

[00:25:13]>> That's when I'm happy with you, >> girl. If you have 10,000 fans, I'm one of them.

[00:25:18]>> Oh, bless. Thank you.

[00:25:19]>> If you have 10 fans, I'm one of them. If you have one fan, it's me.

[00:25:22]>> Oh, bless. Thank If you have no fans, I'm dead.

[00:25:24]>> Oh man, >> I'm gone. I'm absolutely gone.

[00:25:28]>> Can you ever accept that? You know, because the public eye comes with so many other things outside of praise.

[00:25:37]>> Yeah.

[00:25:37]>> And we we we were we were taught to block negativity, but we were never taught in how to accept positivity, >> you know, and to accept the praise. Can you ever sit in your own excellence and realize that I'm very good?

[00:25:48]>> It's taken a while. Um, firstly, thank you so much for having me. I'm so grateful to be a part of this conversation. Yeah. Um, thank you for you being here. Um, it's taken a while for me to get to that point. I'm not going to lie, because I think you and I were having a chat earlier on about how our world view as South Africans is to always be meek and humble and be like, "Oh," and it's just like, "No, actually, I'm not Zamaring." And I think um that moment came for me when I was on Scandal and I I was acting opposite um who I grew up watching my entire life.

[00:26:22]And there was a moment where 20some year old me went yeah this moment that I've been dreaming for this dream of passion has finally come and it's found me ready >> and and I'm deserve to be here. Um, and I remember having a conversation with him as well about how to adapt to how people are responding to the work. And he said, "Masa, people let you into their homes >> every day." And so there is a familiarity and love and care. And imagine if you meet people and you're like, and you're giving that stang face.

[00:26:51]Um, you know, it's care. It's love. It's people going, "We appreciate what you're doing." And and I respect that. When much is given, much is expected. And I I receive that that feeling, that care.

[00:27:02]You know, as you said, you were working opposite Oelo magakang. I remember when you were thrown into the deep end and you had to do a show with Fresh.

[00:27:09]>> Yeah.

[00:27:10]>> I was like, >> everything you think you know that preps you for a moment of working with someone you've looked up to, that you've you've watched be brilliant at what they do.

[00:27:21]Nothing preps you for that moment with that first show, >> the first moment, the first scene with them.

[00:27:26]>> But also, it dawns on you at the end that I did that with that person. I also then it means I deserve to be here and you have to quickly then wear the comfort of I'm at the right place here and everyone else that's put me in this spot cuz they could have put me anywhere else sees that.

[00:27:44]>> Yeah.

[00:27:45]>> So in the in the first for women research one of the things women said is >> you know you constantly have to go to work to stank face.

[00:27:53]>> Yeah.

[00:27:53]>> You know um it's work kind of feels like a survival ritual >> as opposed to a thriving platform. a platform where you're there to thrive.

[00:28:01]Um you you can study, you can have the thesis, you can have the degrees, you can have the excellence, you can have the experience, >> but it's almost like >> bathing. You have to bath every day to believe that you're clean.

[00:28:13]>> Every day you have to go to work to convince yourself that I can do this, >> you know, I I I I belong here, >> right?

[00:28:21]>> So you have to protect yourself. What's your protection routine? What's your protection ritual for your mind, for your body, for your soul, for your spirituality, mentally?

[00:28:32]>> I I think my protection ritual definitely has to be my my spiritual practice. I meditate a lot. I did, in fact, a vapa. I don't know if people know about it, but a vapa is like a 10-day retreat in the mountains of Va, and you sit in silence for 10 days, and there's no phone, no watch.

[00:28:50]>> Um, you can't text anyone.

[00:28:51]>> How do you know it's 10 days then?

[00:28:52]>> Because someone's keeping count.

[00:28:56]I don't have to be concerned about that.

[00:28:59]But um I think that has helped me to I don't want to move in the world armored >> and I think what um just looking for customer helped me to is to dearmor and part of that dearmoring is know that I also deserve to be a part of this world.

[00:29:14]I also have something to contribute in this world. And so I think getting into vapasa, getting into meditation has really been my protection for lack of a better word, but that's not the word that I'm looking for. Um, >> has been my cushion of compassion for myself actually to be able to show up in the world truthfully and honestly and vulnerably and and and so yeah, I think that's my >> my marshmallow armor, >> your cushion of compassion for yourself.

[00:29:45]>> Yeah.

[00:29:46]>> Oh yeah. Clap it away, girl.

[00:29:48]>> Yeah.

[00:29:48]>> Yeah.

[00:29:49]>> Your cushion of compassion >> for yourself.

[00:29:52]>> Because if I can do that for myself, Anel, then it's easy for me to extend it to another. But more often than not, if I can't do that for myself, if I'm hard on myself, if I feel like I must enter the world, and for the longest time as a young woman, I thought I must be angry.

[00:30:05]And so, a little bit of tbega was was drawing for my own life, being defensive, always being scared. And the gift of growing and getting older is that I I realize that if I can treat myself with love and compassion and care and respect, then it's easy for me to extend it to anyone else. So if I can cushion myself with compassion, I can easily give it to you, which then if you make mistakes or >> you know, I can understand that we're all part of this human experience trying to figure it out. We don't know.

[00:30:32]>> We don't know. I >> I think also a lot of times when you when you say we all part of this human experience, we're doing this for the first time. I I like the fact that you're saying extending it to yourself cuz it's very easy also for us to kind of make it make sense for other people to say I forgive my dad. I forgive my mom. I forgive that friend because we're all just on this human journey where we can make mistakes and we forget often times to then >> turn and look at it and forgive yourself >> and forgive yourself and say I'm doing this for the first time as well.

[00:30:58]>> Yeah. What have you had to forgive yourself for?

[00:31:01]>> Oh my gosh, what a brilliant question.

[00:31:04]I've been so hard. Now you're not bad at this thing. Yes, >> I >> I um I was actually chatting to um to Sino a bit earlier on and just I've always been so hard on myself about wanting to be perfect >> and based on on the sort of background that I come from. I come from a hardworking middle-class family. Um you know, my mom worked several jobs. My dad worked really hard. So I had to be perfect. I had to be the the head girl.

[00:31:31]I had to be the junior mayor. Like these were the things that I found deep meaning. The locus of my meaning of myself was external. And I've had to forgive myself for >> allowing myself to be human and make mistakes and be like that's part of the course when you're in the arena of life.

[00:31:47]>> So you've allowed yourself to >> be accept joy and invite joy outside of achievement.

[00:31:55]>> Absolutely.

[00:31:55]>> Because that's another thing about women. Men wake up joyful with themselves before they do anything.

[00:32:00]>> Oh yeah. You know woman >> right women will I I need to do today I need to do this and then I must do that and I must do that then I must do this and then I can get myself a chocolate and then I can celebrate myself when I have done something whereas you know men do it the other way around. So are are you able now to cuz you throw your body on the line. I I I I I know you a little and then I know you from far, but knowing you from far and running into you at the gym every now and then >> when when you go through something, your body goes through it as well.

[00:32:32]>> Absolutely.

[00:32:32]>> Right. So, have you stopped that?

[00:32:35]>> No.

[00:32:37]>> It's the only way I know how to exist and in a beautiful way though is that when you interact with me, whether I'm working as an actress or as a teacher, I give all of me to you. So I know that when something I defeats me, I don't leave it going, "Oh, I didn't give my all." I did. I know I did. I threw my war line. Yeah. And I regret nothing. So you can never say to me, "Oh, aren't you ashamed about that thing?" No, I was there. I did. I gave it my all. It didn't work out.

[00:33:02]>> It would be a different thing if I knew that I didn't give it my all and and you know, okay, maybe I could have done better. No, because I know myself and I know who I am and I know that I go head first into into the water. I I'm a content when things don't work out and I'm even more content when things do.

[00:33:18]But another thing about this um Vasna trip that I really do encourage everyone to do is this conversation about um equinimity >> of being able to just experience something and not necessarily place a it was good, it was bad. It was it was it was >> it was guys go to vapasa >> like go sit in silence and there moments where you go mad because you don't understand how many things we use to distract ourselves our cell phones food I didn't realize food was such a thing for me like I eat to because I'm lonely like I didn't realize that food was a thing until I went to go sit 10 days in silence and realized oh I don't need to eat as much as I do because I am lonely. Oh, snap. It's loneliness.

[00:34:04]>> Oh, that's where that sits.

[00:34:06]>> And so, yeah. Yeah.

[00:34:09]>> Cuz she's my sister's one of those people where >> if you're not okay, she mustn't ask you if you're okay. You know those people like are but are you okay?

[00:34:18]>> And no, you know, even when I don't know if you know like you've got intense hugs like >> cuz you know when you meet hi and then you hug. No, my sister's like, "Girl, I was hugging you."

[00:34:31]>> She's looking at you in the eye.

[00:34:32]>> That's And you just And you feel her entire body embracing you.

[00:34:37]>> I'm so glad.

[00:34:38]>> It's It's I'm a little nervous, >> you know, personal space >> because if you're if you're running away from yourself, you can't be around someone like that, >> you know.

[00:34:49]>> So when is this vasasa? Am I saying it right? Vasa.

[00:34:52]>> Vasa.

[00:34:53]>> Vasa. Is is that why you stop running away from yourself? Because I feel like even in your industry, your job is to run away from yourself.

[00:35:02]>> And the gag is the only way you can do my work. The only way you can truly act is by having a deep knowledge of self.

[00:35:09]Because then, you know, I don't know if you remember that Hansel and Gretle story that left crumbs for themselves to find their way home. Similarly, in acting, you have to be able to have crumbs. Be it your meditation, be it your have your own isms that help you find yourself back to yourself. And a lot of people don't have that. And so you you then place the locus of of sense of self externally. And that's why people go mad when the the values of my industry happen because they do happen.

[00:35:37]You know, one minute you are the hot thing, the next it's dead silent and it's just part of the course when you're leading a creative life.

[00:35:44]>> But if your your your locus of of self has always been external, then you panic. And this is why we end up using vices and and getting caught up in things because um you know we running away from ourselves and and and we've been waiting for others to tell us who we are.

[00:36:00]>> So I I weirdly for me the way the the only reason that I'm able to act is because I know myself so deeply and I like me. I think it's that Zoe Salana quote. I like me. I like the way I think. I like how I make mistakes. I like how I learn from my mistakes is what Zoe says. And similarly for for me I'm not running for myself and Vasna perhaps anchored that for me.

[00:36:22]>> But um the older I get the more I'm just like no grandma.

[00:36:27]>> Yeah.

[00:36:28]>> Yeah. I've got time for you.

[00:36:30]>> Not bad boy.

[00:36:31]>> Um TD Jake's daughter Sarah Sarah Roberts Jake >> she said something the other day in a podcast and I was like damn cuz somebody was asking know the age old question. Do you get imposttor syndrome? you know, and I I I just it's a great question to ask, but I feel like we've also become lazy now where we rely on that to to get the deep meaningfulness from people.

[00:36:53]>> And she said something. She's like, I I don't have imposter syndrome because there's definitely parts of me that shouldn't be in the places that I am, right? And I'm okay with that and I recognize that, right? So, have you ever been in a situation where you're like, >> I am not supposed to be here, but guess who isn't here? damn person I am and I'm going to I'm going to make it work.

[00:37:17]>> I think that's the story of my life. And then >> I think even when I think of when I got first got to Scandal and and I was just like I'm not supposed to be here. How I got there the the the series producer was watching our final year exams and we'd been told at Varsity, "Yeah, you guys are going to struggle." And I was just this arrogant little thing that went no I'm not. Um, and so they invited us over and I thought, okay, maybe they're showing us what we're not going to have because all this time we've been told, you know, we're not going to get this. And next thing they're like, okay, so can you start next week?

[00:37:46]>> And then, you know, working with Sillow and then working with incredible people in international works. I guess for me it's just like I also deserve to be here. I also have something to contribute to this story. So I've never felt if anything when I do get that because I do get the shakes like everyone else, I still get nervous when I perform work. In fact, even sitting here right now, like I can feel my inner self going, but I'm here and I'm showing up. And I think for for me, what perhaps quells that voice that goes, I don't belong here. I go, okay, I hear you. I acknowledge you because you're there.

[00:38:17]Um, but I'm busy right now.

[00:38:19]>> Oh, >> I'm busy. I've got something to do.

[00:38:22]>> I'm working. I've got to work. So, I'll come back to you. So, it's not acknowledging, not like, you know, ignoring it and saying it's not there, cuz that would be a lie, but I I I go, "Well, I'm busy right now and I have to have this conversation with these two incredibly powerful women that I love.

[00:38:36]I'm going to talk to you later." And then it I because I acknowledged it, it dissipates. Very often, we don't want to acknowledge the thing and then it just sits there and fers and fers and fes.

[00:38:46]But for me, what has come to help me is the fact that I'll acknowledge like, "Oh my gosh, I'm scared. I'm scared. What if I say the wrong thing? What if I don't?

[00:38:54]And then I'll go, "Okay, I hear you scared. Just sit there in the corner for me. I see you. You're cute. You're worthy of being happy."

[00:38:59]>> Inside out.

[00:39:00]>> Yeah. All the emotions.

[00:39:03]>> I promise you, I live inside >> anxiety. Like >> I actually like that because I I also get like very nervous. And I think I grew up with imposter syndrome at some point in my life. Very late in fact, not even growing up. And I think what's helped me is acknowledging what you're saying >> loudly. Yeah.

[00:39:20]>> That this scares me like and I I don't know if when I was walking in, I don't know if you ladies heard me at the back.

[00:39:26]I even said to Lani, >> this is bigger than I thought and I don't want to be here, right? Because what that does to me is ground yourself.

[00:39:34]You know it's bigger than what you thought it was going to be. You know you are here in this big place because someone trusts that you should be in that place. then wear it and just sit there and do the thing someone believes you can.

[00:39:47]>> And the thing with imposter syndrome is that it's you that's holding yourself back.

[00:39:51]>> Absolutely.

[00:39:52]>> You are put in places cuz imposter syndrome doesn't also come up in places where you feel like you're the boss.

[00:39:58]>> It comes in places where you feel >> none of you ever said you've got imposter syndrome at a club or >> Yes.

[00:40:05]belongs to you like and >> and all it is is you is is little you thinking is this bigger than I thought in this moment because it's a space where you feel like maybe I'm not comfortable but surely someone believes I should be here >> and I need to meet that belief of that person with my voice I need to meet their their confidence in me >> with my confidence in me >> yeah well said >> see now I'm listening >> now I'm month I'm Now I'm like thinking I'm just like I forgot what I need to say after this. You y'all just carry ON WITH THIS. I'M A SUBSCRIBE. Press like, subscribe, follow my page.

[00:40:46]Um before we wrap up and you're going to be back later on.

[00:40:51]>> You are on a you are on Apple girl.

[00:40:54]She's on Apple TV, guys. Come on now.

[00:40:56]Come on now.

[00:40:58]>> Come on with it.

[00:40:59]>> Thank you.

[00:41:00]>> It's a movie.

[00:41:01]>> Yeah. You say you you you kick ass there >> big time. It's it's an action movie.

[00:41:06]I've never done action in my entire life before. And I was scared. Remember, you know, um Americans of of are socialized radically differently to us. They're taught that they can do everything and anything. We taught stick to your lane, stay small, apologize for existing, be grateful. So now you come to the set um you know, and I've always been told no, you're a dramatic actress, you can't do comedy or what action. And I jumped at this opportunity and yes, I pardon my language. I kick ass and take names. I did that. I watch it and I go, "Oh my goodness, what a what an incredible life. What a wonderful adventure I'm on." Did cuz I saw you tweet that um cuz I think you were flying overseas for the premiere and you were like, "I'm on an apple." I was like, >> "Girl, did I hear you say apple?" Cuz that's that's the epitome, right?

[00:41:58]There's no there's just no entrance to Apple. How do you where do you go if you want to be on Apple TV? You know, Steve Jobs, you know, what do you do? Who do you call? And here you are on this movie.

[00:42:07]>> Yeah.

[00:42:08]>> What's it called?

[00:42:08]>> It's called Sniper No Nation. And there's no one in part two. So, please go watch it.

[00:42:13]>> Please, guys.

[00:42:15]Get in there.

[00:42:16]>> I'd love to hear what you think.

[00:42:17]>> I'm going to tell her as as early as Friday. I'm going to let you know what I think cuz I love TV and I watch it all the time and I'm such a fan of yours, like I said. So, I'll definitely watch it. We'll be back later, ladies and gentlemen.

[00:42:32]>> The Anel podcast is produced by Lungani Gomed and executive produced by Frankie Detroit from Rosen Oaks Media. This podcast is inspired by First forWoman's Her and Now report. To read the full report, go to first forwoman.co.za.