Can You Be Chinese AND Malaysian? (The Identity No One Understands) | Evolve Podcast

Added: 2026-05-05

[00:00:00]Can you be both? Can you be truly Chinese and Malaysian? Speaking English in Malaysia is what made me not see color. Actually, welcome back to Evolve. Today, we have the honor of speaking with Brian, who is the host of the Let's Get It podcast here in Malaysia. And we're going to be hearing his stories of what it's like to be a Malaysian in 2026. Chinese Malaysian, whatever that means, I don't know. We're going to dive into all of that. So, I'm going to pass it over straight away to Brian. Uh, can you let us know who you are? Hey man, I am Brian. I'm a Chinese Malaysian. So that uh yeah, I run the Let's Get It Podcast uh show, content creation pretty much podcaster. Yeah. So that term Chinese Malaysian, you know, it's also something that we all we often talk about like Chinese Malaysian uh what Malaysian Indian or uh Malaysian Malay. Some people prefer to just use the word Malaysian, you know, because I know we're not like other countries. We have very um we are very multicultural. We often only talk about the three main races, right? We've got Malay, uh Indians, and Chinese. So um descending order, Malay, Chinese, uh Indians, that's how the the population goes. But if you're talking about the minority races, right, you go down to what used to be called Borneo back then, now is uh East Malaysia. Hundreds hundreds of different um different types of uh ethnicities, cultures. Yeah. So, I was saying um that term Malaysian, Chinese, you know, I mean, if you look at me, I'm so obviously Chinese, you know, I'm People would think that I'm from China, but I'm Malaysian.

[00:01:42]>> Yeah. I guess that's what makes us special. Yeah. M >> yeah as someone who's interested in culture it's so interesting to come here and witness all of this going like the diversity but at the same time unity in that diversity >> but when you go to London right it's sort of it's quite similar would you say to Malaysia >> yes and no so there's certain peculiarities I mean the the question I want to ask about you is then how much people preserve of their origins culture so the first thing that hit me in Malay Asia was I would hear people who were Malaysian born in this country >> but they were speaking different languages. So I stayed in Cheras before.

[00:02:22]I heard a lot of people speaking to be honest I'm probably sure like it wasn't Mandarin. It might have been Fuen or like another dialect. Um >> and then I heard Indians who were born here still speaking Tamil together.

[00:02:34]Okay.

[00:02:34]>> Um and of course Malay is Bahasa.

[00:02:37]Malaysia is is a huge language here as well. So in England a lot of the youngsters if you're born in the UK if you're with your friends it's very rare you're going to speak Punjabi or tree like a West African language you're going to speak in English to your to your friends. So could you tell me about that side of things?

[00:02:53]>> Okay. Uh let me try and break it down.

[00:02:55]Okay. So you were talking about um uh the Malay language. Malay language you go to different states right? You've got different accents as well. Guantan accent. uh people in Sabah they speak Malay al so it's a bit different their accents Chinese over here you're talking about the dialects that you've heard Mandarin is really uh one of probably the most spoken um Hawen and uh Cantonese those are followed up by that those are also pretty uh commonly spoken well our national language is Basa Malaysia which is Basa Malayu Malay what people assume that all Malay people speak. But sometimes you go meet a Malay person and they are better at speaking English than they are at speaking Malay.

[00:03:47]>> Obviously the English part, right?

[00:03:50]Because if you've been here, you spent months over here, you lived here remotely for uh years ago, you would know that you speak to anyone from any ethnicity, right? Chances are at the very worst it'd still be able to speak um some poor English, but you can understand them. They can speak English.

[00:04:08]And obviously, like I said, we there's probably some influence from being colonized for hundreds of years.

[00:04:13]>> You're growing up as a quote unquote, right? And the thing is I I say these to get you to tell me about your feelings towards them. As a Malaysian Chinese and as a Malaysian, though, I want to know about >> what was life like for you growing up?

[00:04:26]What languages did you speak? What cultures influenced you? What cultures at home? Is it a Chinese culture? Is it a Malaysian culture? Are they the same?

[00:04:33]Are they different?

[00:04:34]>> Okay. Uh answer might disappoint you a little bit. Yeah. So, I I don't speak Chinese, right? I told you this right before we started. My parents, my dad, my mom, my dad spoke uh speaks Mandarin, Cantonese, uh Pchu is a dialect from Fucha, English and Malay. So, what? Five?

[00:04:56]>> Wow. Yeah. And my mom speaks three to four um uh languages.

[00:05:03]I went to school, I spoke English most of the time. It was a government school, right? Um it was about this was my primary school. It was about 90% uh Malay kids and then the rest is Chinese and Indian. Yeah. And then of course there's some minor minorities.

[00:05:20]I grew up in a household where we spoke English. Okay. So the part where I said I was I might disappoint you. My influence I'm very much Malaysian. Um just feels like home over here.

[00:05:33]Uh culture- wise uh yeah I'm a Chinese who celebrates Chinese New Year. Um I'm accustomed to uh the celebration uh celebrations Malay people have, Indian people have as well. But when I grew up, right, I was like consuming so much of I've always consumed a lot of uh western content. And you could just uh I I guess you would you would say that's just because western uh western content in America is just it's just widely covered all over and popular, you know. So um there were local content also I I I covered. But I think because also I grew up you know my household we we spoke English. So for me that's like my bread and butter. Yeah.

[00:06:18]>> No it's not about disappointing me. I think as the reason I feel so comfortable here is I am half western half Asian. So coming here there are people a lot of people like you who are aware of both cultures and that's just the way you've grown up I guess with an exposure to all of them. But I'm wondering then does being referred to as Chinese make you feel like uncomfortable then? cuz like before the podcast I said Chinese and you said well we're ch Chinese I'm Malaysian so I'm wondering how >> okay so let me uh let me let me uh just give a better idea to the listeners before the podcast you said um I you said so I know that you're Malaysian Chinese I said yeah very obvious right then then you said oh which part of China then I'm like whoa you know over here if you ask someone which part of China I know where um my great grandparents parents were from in China uh Fucha Province.

[00:07:14]>> I I know that because um my uncles, my family, extended family, they I guess they put took the effort to keep in contact with them. Obviously, I'm a third generation uh Chinese in Malaysia.

[00:07:27]But the reason why I reacted that way like, oh wow, you're asking me about which part of China cuz most people over here, especially my generation, I think a lot of them don't even know which part of China they're from. We're just so it's it's very normal that you say that you're Malaysian and you're Malaysian but you're Chinese or Indian or Malay Iban Kadazan. Those are from the Bonyo side. Yeah. No, it's really interesting because we've done multiple videos recently with the Thai Chinese community. Yeah.

[00:07:54]>> And I think they're very proud to speak about the struggles that their great great grandparents went through to come over and establish the community. So to hear the slight difference here that okay yes you know you have origins from there but it's not like your day-to-day conversation of the the specific regions is is quite refreshing in a way as well but then just just a big difference because I know with the Indian community >> that there's the word India but as a someone who's Punjabi by origin the Tamils who also there were Punjabis and Tamils in India it's like a completely different language and culture so I don't know I don't know much about the the many many Indian accents that uh sorry Indian uh dialects there are but I know there's plenty. Yeah.

[00:08:41]>> Um we are very fascinating to westerners >> always and I you see right I'm thinking what um because we've got Chinese people uh are we considered yellow skin?

[00:08:56]>> I I always I always got referred to by people as yellow as well. So if you look they typically call Chinese people yellow.

[00:09:03]>> I think that nowadays if you said that people would say come on like that that might be too much but let's be honest in history they would call people like let's say a desi would be brown so a south Asian would be brown and then a Chinese would be seen as yellow. Yes.

[00:09:16]Like I would say it's an outdated term >> but people said I never knew what desi meant. Um is what brownish skin color.

[00:09:24]So um when we say desi we mean like from South Asia, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, maybe Nepal, Sri Lanka, those those type of the the the type that probably like to eat curry and rice and dal and roti and this type of thing. There's a huge stereotype, but I mean I'm thirsty myself. So >> yeah. Uh well uh then you would know um over here in Malaysia, we eat curry all the time as well. Yeah, I had curry last night.

[00:09:50]>> Yeah. Um >> yeah. So I was I was saying like we are fascinating to uh white people and it's probably because got really dark skin brown skin and dark brown skin over here but we all speak same languages that's the fascinating part is it because I I feel like in in UK if you stay in the city as well or maybe it's different because in UK right um if you're in London and then now there's lots of Indians there lots Chinese as ch people from China over there, right? If I'm not mistaken >> in the UK, a lot of people from China.

[00:10:26]Yeah.

[00:10:27]>> Yeah. Um maybe it's a bit different because those people only came in the last 30 40 years, right? Whereas for us Malaysians, we were like this before our independence.

[00:10:37]>> So yeah, but but I I would think that you guys see a lot of diversity as well over the Yeah. Actually, what what surprised me the most when I came here actually was the fact that Malaysians often seamlessly change language. So you've got your connecting languages which you mentioned are most likely going to be >> English and Malay.

[00:10:56]>> Exactly. But then while sitting down like because I spent a lot of time in the mammax here and I had to burn off too many calories after that. Right.

[00:11:03]>> But then >> I would hear on one table some people speaking one of the I'm assuming a Chinese language. Then I would hear people speaking like Tamil. Then I will hear people speaking English. And then I will hear like Malay. And it's just like whoa. This was kind of overwhelming for someone who's in if I'm in like in England, if you go to a Chinese restaurant, >> Chinese people will speak some sort of Chinese language and then that's about it. Whereas here, back and forth, a lot of different languages going on and they've influenced each other. And I think that just really stuck out to me that you have different schools sometimes for different communities. M um that was one of the biggest differences because there are those schools in the UK but it's a it's a huge like know it's a very small minority that you might have a few religious schools but overall you wouldn't like when I I stayed in chas and I saw oh this is a Chinese school the kids in there when I looked and I could hear they were like singing songs in Chinese when I looked in there pretty much everyone looked like the majority of kids in there are Chinese like that was a a kind of new and surprising thing for me. So you you mentioned this is something I never heard. So you mentioned in UK they have different schools not just the one public school system.

[00:12:12]>> It's it's a minority and it's a bit of a sensitive issue as well that you do have certain religious schools of course the majority Christian country you get Catholic schools and whatnot but there are some Muslim schools I believe some Hindu schools as well but it's it's just not that common. Most people are going to be in a school where you've got other cultures around you especially in a mixed area.

[00:12:32]>> Okay. So the schools thing over here we call it vernacular schools right that's very much a sensitive issue as well.

[00:12:39]>> So for for example right because um it's not the norm to have different school systems in countries. I I know there are some other countries that do have that but not some other a few if I'm not mistaken. I tried googling this before but in a sense we are quite unique also.

[00:13:02]Um and these school systems are funded by the government some partially some completely as well and we adopt the same uh worldwide sorry nationwide standardized exams. We we we do follow that. So it's pretty much just a government uh school system.

[00:13:20]big a big reason also why um I I can't really remember the real reasons but post um independence there was definitely pol uh political um what do you call this uh uh um t tension because of this because we um Chinese people and Indian people wanted to uh retain this school system >> but a big reason also why they wanted to do it is not only just the culture I think it's also the the the language >> right because If I went to a Chinese school, right, I would be able to speak Mandarin fluently, you know, and I I didn't I went to a government school, so I I can't. But also, at the same time, I've got lots of friends in the government school who can speak Chinese, but that's because they grew up speaking Chinese in their household, you know.

[00:14:08]So, I'm I'm just um saying that that was one of the reasons why they wanted to retain it because as a human, right? And then you know our our identity is sort of natural that you want your your next generations to be able to uh preserve that culture. But it's also conflicting in a sense where um people have this argument of why is there a need to have so many different languages when we're in this country called Malaysia. There's a language called Basa Malaysia. Um everyone speaks English is fine already.

[00:14:38]Maybe more than two language is not necessary. people think that uh what's that you it's u it causes disunityity stuff like so it gets very complicated but these are the systems that we I was accustomed to since uh I mean since I was born you know and work like this >> yeah I mean it all hits home for me because I think my mom to some point wanted me to really fit in and learn English well and integrate so I didn't learn her mother tongue >> um as a kid >> so you were Pakistani >> Pakistani so my mom's mother tongue is Punjabi >> Uhhuh. But the official language of Pakistan is Udu.

[00:15:13]>> And both of those are quite similar, >> very similar to Hindi as well. And as I've gotten older, I've taken my own steps to um try and learn it as much as I can, but I've still got a long way to go with that. So, so >> um you would say that can you converse in Udu?

[00:15:29]>> Not fluently, but I can understand a lot because especially these days I watch the TV dramas and you have the English subtitles. So the a lot of the vocab I get and with the context in the sentences I can understand >> but then when I express myself at the moment the grammar is really broken. So that's yeah and that's also would you say that's um of your interest or it's like a a conscious effort like because you want to pick up the language.

[00:15:52]>> I think it's a conscious effort because again like I this is why Malaysia is so fascinating to me and what you're saying that hits home is that there is an argument in the UK that goes a bit something like why do you need to learn another language? this is England, you know, make sure you we should only hear English when we're outside. And you know, I I understand that perspective.

[00:16:13]We are in a country. We should use the language of the country. But then >> I also believe and a big part of our channel is a lot of language and culture content that different cultures and languages can enrich your life as well.

[00:16:24]So there's that's the main kind of clash here. Um but but what I want to ask you though is um >> I was going to ask you something.

[00:16:31]>> I know you're a host, but the fact that you don't speak Chinese. Yeah.

[00:16:35]>> How does that make you feel? Does it feel like there's something missing there or do you feel like it's not actually that big a deal as a Malaysian?

[00:16:42]You see, right? So, I don't feel it's that big of a deal because there are people in Malaysia, right, living here who were born here their whole lives.

[00:16:53]>> They speak only English. they are Malay and uh let's say Malay just because they they live in Malaysia is like you probably know like four uh 30 40 words that's about it okay >> so you ask me whether I don't I um do I not feel comfortable something's missing I feel like I wish I could speak Chinese >> I can network so much better I can connect with people so much better if you're a people person you would appreciate that a lot I do I do not feel like something is missing because you could pretty much carry out your whole lives in Malaysia, go on living and speak one language and you'll be fine. Like I was saying, there's people that I'm I'm lucky I went to government school. I could speak I can speak BM fine. I understand it fine. More importantly, but there are people who grew up in um let's say for example it's very popular reference you know Monara right over here. They speak, they go, they grew up in international school, their parents were probably expatriates, but they grew up and were born here, have citizenships, so they are Malaysians, right? But they're probably white-kinned, you know, Europeans or whatever. They speak one language and they can live their whole lives just fine without that. And if you ask them, do you feel not um like not whether like you're not comfortable or something's missing, maybe they would say, uh, no, I I feel just fine. you know, but if you take that dude, you put them maybe in the um outskirts area where people generally speak more um more Malay, right? And and uh it's like uh perhaps their English is not too good, then they would feel out of place. But I'm I stay in I stay in the what this battal, you know, so it's it's different. Yeah.

[00:18:41]>> Yeah. Yeah, it's a really fascinating debate to have because I've even just coming here I realized that as a tourist you can easily get by especially in KO with >> with English.

[00:18:52]>> Yeah. But then those little instances where I've said a few words for example in the in the Indian restaurant and they look at me okay is he what I say >> what does that mean >> like hello brother to the staff right >> so instantly there's like a all the kind of potential tension just goes >> sorry I didn't ask so you said your mom is Pakistani what about your dad >> he's English white English >> English but what do you mean by white English >> as in he's white and he's English.

[00:19:22]>> I I don't know um what that means because uh you see I'm not >> Yeah, don't worry.

[00:19:26]>> I'm not very familiar. I know Yuki, you got Ireland.

[00:19:30]>> No, from England.

[00:19:31]>> English. So like the main distinction that people again this is a sensitive issue for Brits is like the UK is made up of you've got England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales. Wales. So if you say I'm British, that could mean from any of those.

[00:19:46]>> But if you if you say I'm English, that means you're from England. Not like you can't. Do you see the distinction there or not? It confuses people. What What happened to Southern Ireland?

[00:19:56]>> That's another problem.

[00:19:58]>> Even is that even more complicated?

[00:19:59]>> That's part of that's part of the European Union.

[00:20:02]>> Okay. But it's not called Southern Ireland.

[00:20:04]>> It's called Ireland.

[00:20:06]>> Yeah. My geography geography is bad.

[00:20:09]>> But even a lot of like Brits, you know, they I've never been to Northern Ireland. I've been to Wales for >> even though I've got Welsh family, >> I've only been there once. So they have a different language there. So there are some similarities and Welsh has kind of been like spoken less and less over the years and a lot of Welsh people have been trying to reclaim it recently as well. Um because when one language starts to take like um I guess dominance over others.

[00:20:36]>> It can be good for communication but then people who have origins from that other place might feel like they're losing part of their identity.

[00:20:44]>> So let me ask you can can I ask you something?

[00:20:46]>> Yeah. Just now you were talking about like you put on some uh uh was it Pakistani films to sort of polish up your >> uh Udu uh learning the Udu language, right?

[00:20:56]>> What why is it important for you?

[00:20:59]>> Because if you ask me that you answer first.

[00:21:02]>> Yeah. I think that maybe a key difference between us is that my mom was born in Pakistan.

[00:21:07]>> Yeah.

[00:21:07]>> So I'm technically if she's first generation, she came as a baby to England. I'm second gen and it was a nice >> second >> technically I'm second if my mom was born there on even though she came very young I'm second gen so as a second gen Asian in Europe you're often told by a lot of people this is what the Asians are like this is what Pakistan's like this is you are like this and I felt well everyone's telling me what I am but I've never actually been there to see with my own eyes what it's like and in a Pakistani context there was a lot of negative media Um I even met some people with Pakistani origin here who then said like oh yeah I have no interest in going to Pakistan it's bad. So they never been even though their mother was also from Pakistan. Um I just wanted to go and see for myself what the place was like and it really was very very different to what the media showed me and I had a great time. I saw my mom's like uncle. I met like in one day 30 people I'm related to >> people who you've never met before.

[00:22:06]>> Never met before. you know, imagine in one day I met like 30 people who kind of in some ways look like me. I still can't fully speak. So then my mom's like translating. Um, >> and I always thought, oh, because I'm mixed, they're not going to really accept me or my dad, but my dad's there as well, and I'm there with my brother.

[00:22:23]And it was for for me personally, it was a very important moment to understand my origins. Um, and it's it's a cool place.

[00:22:31]I mean, the most beautiful nature I've ever seen in my life was definitely in in Pakistan. So that that connection to me helped me in my identity really feel comfortable being white and British but also being uh a mixed Asian.

[00:22:44]>> Yeah. Um but it's always interesting to meet different cultures, connect with people from uh different parts of the world.

[00:22:51]>> Well, so let's say if you throw that question back at me, right? Why it's important.

[00:22:58]I can't tell you that I feel this sense of like um this urgency inside me like you know I need the uh what you see it's because I don't speak Chinese you know >> and when you don't speak Chinese right >> how are you going to how how is it going to be important for you for your next generation um to be able to speak the language I don't think I'm at that point yet I yeah obviously I don't have children but why why is it important to I mean, I feel like I'm so I'm so like mixed mixed up as in I I'm a Chinese Malaysian who speaks been speaking English his whole life, you know. So, to I I do enjoy our festives the the festivities of uh Chinese people in Malaysia. We Chinese New Year is a big thing here as you know. I don't know whether you know this. I think Malaysia has the most public holidays in the whole world, dude. Like a lot. Okay. So we got we got um uh Chinese New Year. So that typically lasts 2 weeks, right? We have uh haraya also.

[00:24:04]>> Mhm.

[00:24:05]>> And now previously it wasn't like this, but now Rya goes on for weeks as well.

[00:24:10]Yeah. Um it's longer now. There's this um this uh pineapple juice shop. I always buy from one of the uh mics over there. Close for Rya. She closed for 2 weeks. You know, people just have long holidays over here. So yeah, I do enjoy the festivities, the culture. Yeah, celebrations. Who doesn't like celebrations? But like the need to preserve this uh language or why is it important?

[00:24:35]Do you think it's also could be something to uh related to ego? Ego in like you need to have a a strong sense of your identity, need to understand it.

[00:24:46]>> Do you think it's related?

[00:24:47]>> I think partially, but I wouldn't say in a negative way. I think again like uh there's there's been a lot of um connotations let's say growing up in the UK and I don't know about Malaysia >> but the word Pakistan most people know in the west had negative connotations >> and I think China did as well >> they still do they still do right so this is what I want to ask you about like imagine you growing up in a place where you've been told by other people who are not Chinese in my case who are not Pakistani that these are bad things like that plays in your mind that leads to generations of people who feel ashamed of who they are >> and I just wanted to validate like wait is this true? Is it am I really bad? Am I really dirty? Am I really all these things? So only by going to Pakistan >> did I really like humble myself and realize how grateful I am for the opportunities I've got. But I've never felt prouder not in an arrogant way like oh we're better than anyone else but just like look at the struggles my family went through. you know, the hard work that my grandparents did and my mom did to give me a good life. It made me grateful about the UK, but it just made me like really proud of my lineage. Not in a like just go and understand my history. Like there's the British military base where all of like my ancestors on the Pakistani side were soldiers fighting for the British army, >> right? If I didn't know that and go and see that with my eyes, you know, when people say, "Oh, go back to where you're from. You know, you don't belong here."

[00:26:14]If I don't know my own history that oh my ancestors fought for the UK as well, you know, then it just helped me to understand that um I don't feel egotistical about it. I just feel like way more at peace and calmer in my identity compared to as a kid that was a different story. I was angry. I was I felt very lost when I was younger.

[00:26:33]>> Did you did you feel uh what were you discriminated a lot? A lot in the UK.

[00:26:37]Yeah.

[00:26:38]>> Okay. Um just from white kids. I got discriminated on both sides. I I spoke on Vinod's the good cast show podcast yesterday about this. I mean when you're mixed the the Asians can push you aside for being white and being a gora the words. So like I was >> not the full Asians.

[00:26:56]>> Yeah. You know my even my own family at some point. So I was seen as the if you watch Harry Potter the mud blood you know in that way then. But then, yeah, of course, a lot of whites at that time, it was all the things going on with and Muslims are this and that and all of those negative associations that it wasn't to be honest, it wasn't just Muslims like any brown, any Asian >> would get stuff as a kid. But >> so, let me ask you this that that changed everything 9/11, right?

[00:27:25]>> So, how um I talked about this recently on the podcast. I remember in Malaysia, imagine I was 7 or 8. I think I was I was 7. I went to school in the morning that, you know, 9/11. They played it, replayed it million times on the on the news channel. Went to school and, you know, I'm a 7-y old kid, you know, I don't know anything. But the only thing that I a new word that I I learned that morning was, >> you know, so and what I there are people who are Muslim. So I I went to school and I'm like, these all my friends, they're all Malays, they're Muslims. So you're a kid, you don't know what it is.

[00:27:57]But there was that sort of tension. And you could say right um they painted a super horrible picture of u Muslim people because of the incident. You've grown up with that negative associations like even I like it didn't hear good things about China. Now when I do my own research about China I still haven't been yet but that's very very high on the list. I just see innovation, infrastructure, technology, so many things that I was told no no the west we're at the forefront for technology.

[00:28:25]weird this and then I'm in Malaysia now and we can talk about this a bit later but I just feel like >> there's so many ways that you're way more advanced than us in the UK >> that just make >> Malaysia.

[00:28:36]>> Malaysia even >> you know I don't know have you been to the UK?

[00:28:40]>> No I have not.

[00:28:40]>> Yeah I've been >> but anyone who like who has these amazing images of the UK.

[00:28:46]>> Okay. Could you could you tell me in in what in uh which areas do you think that over here we're >> we're doing better? You know we Malaysians, right? We love to toot our own horns, man.

[00:28:56]>> No, I I I have to give credit where it's due in that our public transport systems were made a long time ago. Haven't been as maintained. So, yours are way more modern than ours. They're cleaner.

[00:29:08]You've got air conditioning. The price is very like reasonable.

[00:29:12]>> You took the MRT.

[00:29:13]>> Yep.

[00:29:13]>> Yeah. I haven't took all of them, but from KL, I'm observing that your roads >> are way better than our roads as well, cuz ours were made for like horses.

[00:29:24]Well, okay. See, now you >> um >> perhaps because we're in KL, you know, it's a bit different. You go out to the outskirts uh of Malaysia, the more rural areas, it's not going to be that way.

[00:29:37]>> Yeah. The MRT that you that you took, it's nice. It's very nice. Um that's also a project that I think it only it was only completed the last decade. So before that we had LRTs, right? Uh which is uh is a not so advanced I guess version of the uh of this uh what do you call this? Trains. Trains. Yeah. Okay.

[00:29:59]Trains. Yeah.

[00:30:00]>> Um that's um the cleanliness wasn't uh as good as uh right now. But yeah, it's good, man. And it's always nice to hear people say something uh >> good about Malaysia because we have this thing, right? We're always stuck in this uh we we always think that people think of us as a third world country.

[00:30:17]>> Do you? Well, technically, this is what I'm saying cuz I worked in the UN before and then you've got the categories of like developing countries and developed countries and then >> third world countries.

[00:30:29]>> Yeah. I mean people don't nowadays you the terms first world third world people don't use them as much um especially academically but if we're looking at perceptions >> still a lot of people in the west think of all of Asia even China as like these backward places that's that's messed up but but this is what this goes back to the point to link it again to like as a Chinese and as a Malaysian when you know that like at least in Malaysia you're born and raised here you can you can see it yourself so at least if someone in if you see online a British person saying oh Malaysia is dangerous Malaysia like you're going to go outside and someone's going to beat you up and rob you and be careful. You know, at least from a Malaysian's perspective, >> that's not true. But if you haven't been to China and kind of seen that and you're told by other people in your own country, China is da da da da that that can get to you, right? Like did that did you ever have those things?

[00:31:17]>> Okay, so let me speak about China right now cuz >> you see right I'm very much similar to you. Um, actually I I what what I'm trying to say is I speak English as my my main language. I grew up I feel American to be honest. I I feel American on the inside. I love uh Malaysia culture and the food, but I feel American on the inside. I've been I I was pretty much like you. Um and then I I went to China 20 25 years ago. The only thing that I remember apart from the food that the tour agency provided is >> um the there were beggars everywhere and it was sort of like >> there were probably syndicate gangs running this stuff, right? And they would go to my mom and pull their pants and they're very aggressive. A lot of beggars everywhere. Toilets are super dirty, right? This was China 25 years ago. That's the only thing I remember. I went to China the last 2 years with my family. I went to Sing Chang, which is western China. And I went to last year it was all around eastern China which is um the more Han Chinese areas. Han Chinese are people like myself. They literally look like me. I went to West um China. That's where you should go if you're ever thinking about going. Sing is western China. You know what we Muslims are, right?

[00:32:31]>> The wiger Muslims are all from the western side which is Shinjang. I went over to Sing. So you would be so surprised, right? You say you're from where? Kent.

[00:32:42]>> Yep.

[00:32:43]>> Okay.

[00:32:44]Is Kent Kent a metropolitan town?

[00:32:47]Metropolitan.

[00:32:48]>> Like more like where I'm from is more rural like >> Yeah, bro. So, what I'm trying to say is over there in China, you've got um so there's there's um they call it provinces over there, right? Obviously, Shanghai, Beijing, we know um they've been metropolitan for ages.

[00:33:04]>> Not really ages, but yeah. For a while now.

[00:33:06]>> Figuratively. Yeah.

[00:33:07]>> Yeah. You go to the So, there's plenty of provinces, you know. You go to the smaller towns, they're all metropolitan, all of them. And it's crazy because this is 20 years later. I I went back 20 years later. There's no beggars. I don't see any beggars. Everyone is happy.

[00:33:23]Everyone's driving EV. Everyone, not everyone. More than half, I think. It's crazy. And it's it's so damn advanced.

[00:33:32]You people in America have no idea.

[00:33:34]They're they're so backwards. I visited one of the tourist attraction was one of their mosques in um in one of the main cities in uh Singinjang is they um they they do they make it a nice tourist attraction area because it's interesting for us Malaysians because this is a Muslim built mosque with Chinese architecture inside. So it's very different from us. I've seen it online actually.

[00:33:59]>> Imagine if you'd never gone to China recently and then you still heard people saying that. Maybe you'd look at yourself as backwards and how you remembered it before when that's just not that doesn't match the the current state of affairs. But do you still feel like in Malaysia then non-Chinese still have that view of China or are people starting to like oh no no no the Chinese over here we this thing um especially Chinese people in Malaysia right we we've been proud of China ever since we could be which is the moment we started hearing like oh Beijing's been developing well you know we were on that bandwagon a long time ago um last couple of years even now you always see in the comments Chinese people love to throw out the phrase China number one that China number is a very common phrase in China. I sound so China biased, right?

[00:34:45]>> Well, it's quite interesting how like your shift, right? Because in some ways, you know, it's like I feel like there's some part of you that is very proud of being Chinese, but at the same time part of it that's like you're still super Malaysian. So, the the idea that can you be both? Can you be truly Chinese and Malaysian and embrace both of those identities or is there some kind of like point where you have to draw a line? So you said that um you can you think that you you said that I feel um you can see I feel like what do you call that um proud or something? It's not proud. I'm just I just annoyed with stupid people in ignorance. You know it's nothing to do with proud you know. I like I said man I speak English. I'm Chinese. I don't speak Chinese. I can speak Malay.

[00:35:28]I live in Malaysia. You know I can I can understand speak our our national language.

[00:35:33]I've never tied myself to this sort of um like what were you saying? something like um am I proud to be Malaysian? Um yes. Do I need everyone to understand it and all?

[00:35:45]Dude, that's going to be stupid people and people who are ignorant, you know, and most of and this is amplifi amplified by social media these days.

[00:35:52]And you learn to to ignore it even more these days, you know. It's just like a it's like a it's like conditioning, you know, social media. Social media should condition you to realize like, hey man, people are stupid, way stupider than you think or way more ignorant. That's the battle. uh way to put it. So I I am not faced by this at all, man. Yeah. Um I think your question was am I proud?

[00:36:17]>> Of course, man.

[00:36:18]>> Yeah.

[00:36:19]>> I think cuz nowadays like there is, as you mentioned, >> a lot of negative and divisive content online that pushes people away. And I think what we're trying to do here is >> instead of >> like just perpetuate that narrative is just show positive examples of different cultures and how they influence each other. So >> um because we've done a lot of discussions with people of Chinese origin recently as well. Do you think there are any particular things even though linguistically >> like even though linguistically at home you were not speaking Chinese?

[00:36:51]>> Mhm.

[00:36:52]>> Do you think there are any cultural traits that influenced you positively that you still have um thanks to that particular part of culture?

[00:37:01]>> Confucious says you know it's Confucious >> of course.

[00:37:04]>> Yeah. Um I I can't remember.

[00:37:08]>> So um the Asian is not so much I I don't think this is just um so much of a Chinese parenting is Asian parenting.

[00:37:19]You would know as well.

[00:37:21]>> Respect your elders.

[00:37:23]>> Um you don't you don't talk back to your parents. I don't know whether that's a good thing or bad thing. It could sort of be like a it's like you grow up in like a military household. That sort of hierarchy, you know, you don't talk back to your elders. Maybe it's good to have a discussion sometimes. Um well, Asian mentality is also super hardworking. Keep your head down and just just grind, you know. I I like to think that we adopted this mentality because of being colonized. We had to work hard to um elevate ourself from this this standard of society. If you want to have a chance of your next generation being able to live a better life, you have to um embrace hard work.

[00:38:06]So if you ask me um do you see this um sense of uh Chinese what do you call it?

[00:38:12]What do you say? It's not Chinese >> cultural influences and traits specific.

[00:38:16]Yeah, >> it is there. It it it is there. Um what else about Chinese? Chinese people are very very very good with their money >> that um also um transcended on is definitely a good thing you know you >> they're very good at saving I think that's an Asian thing is it already Chinese thing >> I think well in from the Thai Chinese community in their dialect they say >> do they say that here or not it's like I do Chinese it's a family business that I don't even think that's Mandarin I think that's the their dialect from southern China but What one of the reasons of the success of the Thai Chinese community is really like coming together and building a lot of business together.

[00:38:57]>> You mean with the families or with >> family businesses but even along the among the other local Chinese or Thai Chinese community a lot of cooperation.

[00:39:06]So I'm wondering is there been similar kind of stuff?

[00:39:07]>> No no it's true over here but >> it's not just for Chinese I think.

[00:39:14]>> No I I I I can't say so. I can't say so man. you if you you're talking about what type of businessman you are, you know, some some some businessmen, you know, it just so happens that the the business that you're the industry that you're in, it doesn't benefit you to just only work with your own ethnicity, you know. So, it really depends. But what I do notice is white people, let's say UK or um America Americans, you guys don't have that sense of um you stick to your own like let's say if um the the Welsh people, the Welsh >> Brit Brits will stick to each other. Is that does that exist? I think it's more >> do business with each other.

[00:39:53]>> I think more so it's been something that minority communities have done because they they've seen like okay we're starting off we're the underdogs here.

[00:40:01]We need to like stick together more. And I feel like as the communities >> as they develop more >> Yeah.

[00:40:07]>> then there's less of it needed because the I know that the Pakistanis who first came as like the first waves in the UK they had to have each other's backs because otherwise there might have been fights and racism but then >> as that died down you don't need to like watch everyone's back as much. But I'm I'm pretty sure still the communities are there for each other. Um, but I've heard, yeah, for the Thai Chinese, because when they first came to Thailand, there was a lot of, like we spoke about it in the videos, there was a lot of tension and marginalization and and things like that, they really still to this day have a very tight knit.

[00:40:38]>> Yeah. So assuming the the assuming that the tensions or whatever starts to get better, looser, maybe they would stop sticking so tightly with each other as well, you know, after generations and generations because they would sort of like, okay, we're just Thai people, you know, we can we stick with Thai people, you know, that's what um yeah, but there's still cultural differences even though like within Thailand, you can still see quite a big um not always but between like Tai Thai >> um and then Tai Chinese they even speak openly like physically they often look different culturally as well. So I'm wondering for you I I see in this mix of Malaysia that there are cultural traits.

[00:41:24]I know for example the the Indians there is a lot of similarities when it comes to business but then there are probably some differences as well. Do you think that um like having these mixes and differences, how's that influenced you being someone who has this kind of Chinese influence, but also have any of the Indian or Malay influences? And I know there's other minorities, the Chitty and all these other groups as well. Like how have those kind of influenced you?

[00:41:50]>> Influenced me? You see? Okay. So, I'm I'm going to bring it back to like I'm I've never been I never it's very common um that let's say if you're Chinese or you're Malay people person in Malaysia, you do have this uh tendency to stick to your own kind. This is sort of a is a human thing. But for me, right, I've never been tied down to speaking Chinese or speak or speaking Malay. I speak English.

[00:42:22]>> So people who speak English in Malaysia, >> that that speaking English in Malaysia is what made me not see a color actually. And obviously being able to speak Malay because everyone can speak Malay. M.

[00:42:35]>> So for me, I didn't see any of that sticking to Chinese because a lot of Chinese people here in Malaysia, majority actually, their first language is Chinese. You know, I'm the minority of like a Chinese person whose first language is um uh English. So I never I never um felt or was influenced by any of that because I'm like a I'm like from I'm like I would just say I'm just a I'm an English Chinese person, you know. But yeah, it's um what else were you asking for?

[00:43:05]>> I want to know then as well. Yeah, because I stayed in Cheras before and there's a big like I heard a lot of I I don't want to say it's Mandarin, but I heard a lot of Chinese languages at that time there. But and then in terms of the people you hang around with, I guess this is a shout out to your podcast, the Let's Get It podcast. What stuck out to me is when I looked through the guests and the many guests that you've >> interacted with and interviewed, so many different types of people. So, I'm guessing for your experiences growing up and in your friend circles now, are they mainly Chinese Malaysians or is it mixed?

[00:43:34]>> Okay. So, the Let's Get It podcast, which is a podcast I've run, has also been called the Let's Get Indian Podcast.

[00:43:42]I'm I'm serious like uh because I've had so many uh Indian people on. So, if you're asking me my circle of friends right now, >> how many Indians or or Malays My circle of friends that I I Oh, yeah, there is.

[00:43:57]Okay, I forgot that there is an Indian just one one. Oh, yeah, there is a couple. Okay, a couple of Indian dudes.

[00:44:02]But for the for the time I I was actually in Melbourne for 8 years. I I didn't tell you that. Yeah, I worked and studied there. When I was in Melbourne for 8 years, I didn't have any uh Indian friends, but that's just because of um how Malaysians studying over abroad, you know, maybe the Indian uh Malaysians over there, I I didn't mix with them at that time. Yeah. But when I grew up in uh when when I was in primary school, my three best friends were Malay, Chinese, Indian. Three of them best friends, right? Um then I had a period where it was all Chinese friends, maybe one Malay friend. Now through podcast, as you can see from my podcast, I I didn't I I don't see I don't really see the color.

[00:44:40]You know, Indian people are good at talking, man.

[00:44:43]>> So good at talking.

[00:44:44]>> So good. They just know how to talk, you know. So that's why I like to have them on podcast.

[00:44:47]>> Um >> yeah. And you're asking whether I I I don't see color. That's in in short. I know. Um sometimes people just say it. I I don't think I'm that person that just says it like Yeah. I don't you know if you're nice person then you're a nice person. If you're cool to hang with Yeah.

[00:45:04]>> big shout out to was um speaking of Indians know how to talk. Vinod from the good car show podcast. He connected us together. And that guy >> we've done a video with him recently.

[00:45:13]You got to check out his podcast as well. He can talk.

[00:45:16]>> Yeah. And I tell you the one thing about we not right. I think he has to do a whole podcast talking about the fact that he's 6' n because no one talks about that and I mean he's never addressed it and no one knows and when they meet him they're like is this a what is this was he trolling the whole time. He's never said anything about that you know.

[00:45:35]Yeah. Um obviously he's bless yeah 6' n bro. What the hell?

[00:45:41]I did see it from the on screen. I mean, I thought, "Oh, this guy looks quite tall." And then you meet him and he is >> giant.

[00:45:47]>> Okay. Any final things you want to mention about uh I guess being a Malaysian, being a Chinese Malaysian, being um also Yeah. You mentioned briefly there you were in when you left Malaysia and you're in Australia. Did you feel Malaysian? Did you feel Chinese? Did you feel What did you feel?

[00:46:07]>> I felt like a Aussie mate. Yeah. Uh, I I was I felt very much at home because if you've been to Melbourne, the CBD, right? It's something like London CBD except it was 50% China. Malaysians, there's a lot. I don't know how many% but in the double digits. So, I was so at home. It's not the same as when you go 3 hours outside of uh 3 hours outside of uh Melbourne. there's not that many Asians or diversity, but yeah, I felt so at home and you know, when you're in uni, you you have your bunch of ah okay, fine. I surprisingly, you know, I I've never had a close local friend over there.

[00:46:52]>> I just straight up hung out with a lot of Malaysians, Singaporeans, Indonesians. You know, it's probably because we went to the same college. Uh, and also because it's comfort, you know.

[00:47:05]I love chatting with uh local Aussies.

[00:47:08]Dude, they're they're really fun, man.

[00:47:10]They're really fun and they they don't take themselves seriously. So, I love chatting with them. I do. But the people that I hang out with are all Malaysians.

[00:47:18]And I think it's just a convenience thing.

[00:47:20]>> Yeah. Comfort thing.

[00:47:21]>> Mhm.

[00:47:22]>> Yeah. So, are there any key takeaways you think especially because you've interviewed so many people um about a bunch of different things? What lessons have you learned that maybe anyone watching this when it comes to culture, when it comes to this things or anything >> um okay >> that you could a message to people? Mhm.

[00:47:39]>> So I there's a lot more people that I would like to interview that not just controversial but let's just say right they're on the opposite end of my political I'm not I'm not a super political person but what I'm saying is obviously I'm a liberal more liberal person. We've got conservative people over here. Um there's also the far uh what conservative far right you know and then far left. I would like to have conversations with those type of people because what I truly understand and believe is when you're sitting down with someone and you make them feel comfortable and you show a genuine interest of just wanting to understand their point of view of things.

[00:48:25]The conversation will should run smoothly. whether or not you disagree with their opinions or what that's an opportunity for you to understand each other more and that's something um that I would like to do more of um but yeah podcasting has given me it's like you know how it's like man you speak to so many people and you learn so much more yeah I'm just in I'm just been talking to people here in Malaysia you've done um what globally internationally you know so you know what it's like man it's awesome >> it Awesome. Truly honored to have you on today and hear these things and I think that message is so so so relevant for today that you might disagree with someone, but again check out the Let's Get It podcast and and hear some of these conversations. You I've seen you've spoken to people very different from yourself and you've listened and that's how we all learn. So, um >> luckily I don't I luckily I didn't ask you what do you mean by different than myself. He He's going to get me cancelled um on my own podcast, >> but Brian, it's >> Evolve, right? Evolve HQ.

[00:49:29]>> Evolve HQ. That's the one.

[00:49:31]>> HQ is Hadart.

[00:49:32]>> Headquarters. Yeah. So, >> so I I'll just ask a little bit cuz I >> I did minimum research. I just trust that V not um knows what's up. So, he referred me um this gig. Um so, what is based? It was based and you started in UK. How long you guys been running this?

[00:49:46]>> So, it's been 2 years now. Um two years.

[00:49:49]We I am from the UK, but our podcast we've filmed a lot in Korea, in Japan, >> um Thailand, now Malaysia, but also in Europe as well. In Ghana, West Africa last year. Yeah.

[00:50:02]>> You guys had what, what, 70K followers if I'm not mistaken.

[00:50:05]>> Yeah, nearly hit hopefully um around 75K at the moment.

[00:50:10]>> Yeah. Are you on other platforms as well?

[00:50:12]>> Spotify, um social media.

[00:50:14]>> Yeah, we got Instagram and Tik Tok. I should be asking you the these questions.

[00:50:17]>> No, no, but yeah, that's great, bro. two two years and you guys are growing fast, man.

[00:50:21]>> But I think any podcaster to podcaster, you realize like it's just a it's a game of perseverance because you might have times where your content's just hitting the algorithm and then other times it's not. It doesn't really matter whether your content is doing well or not. You just have to keep keep uploading. I think sometimes it's like for me, right, it's like sort of being selfish and um ignorant. Like I could grow much faster, but I just choose to I want to talk about things that I want to talk about, you know, and that's the hard part is being able to talk about things that you want to talk about and make it interesting for the masses.

[00:50:53]>> That's the hard part.

[00:50:54]>> Yeah. But the person who enjoys what they're doing eventually is going to be able to keep going. Whereas if you're just doing it as like kind of forcing yourself, >> eventually you're you're going to like burn out.

[00:51:06]>> Yeah. And people can actually see through that.

[00:51:07]>> Mhm.

[00:51:08]>> But where can we find you, Brian? Of course, the Let's Get It Podcast. This will hopefully maybe be a collab and you'll see that all on the screen, but any other places we can >> Oh, no. Just Let's Get It Podcast. Um don't have to follow my personal account. Just go to uh uh YouTube, Let's Get It Podcast. Um social media, Tik Tok, uh Instagram, Let's Get It Podcast.

[00:51:27]and you will see me and hope you guys enjoy the podcast that I do with people.

[00:51:31]Perfect. So, a huge thank you to Brian today for really unpacking this interesting debate of culture, language, origins. I think it's not only relevant for Malaysia. I think all of us can appreciate the challenges but the beauty of these differences. So, huge thanks to Brian and of course to those watching.

[00:51:50]We're super grateful as always. So, please do let us know what you think.

[00:51:53]I'm sure this this will uh lead to a lot of agreements, disagreements, people with questions for Brian, questions for me. Let us know everything. Don't hold back in the comments. And of course, if you did like it, please do click the like button as it helps us a lot. And do consider subscribing as it helps us to meet more incredible people like Brian, keep the evolve journey going on. So with that said, see you next time. Thank you, Hakim.