Trial Attorney Andrew Wilkerson EXPOSES What The Jury Missed In The Karmelo Anthony Trial

[00:00:01][music] [music] [music] [music] >> Willie D live.

[00:00:35]>> Police scanner 911, what is the location of the emergency?

[00:00:38]>> Over on TITAN DOME STADIUM, MY FRIEND JUST GOT STABBED.

[00:00:41]>> OKAY, do you know who stabbed him?

[00:00:45]>> Um, we have no clue. He's standing in our chair, but you need to send an ambulance right now.

[00:00:48]>> They're on the way, okay? Give me a description of the person that stabbed him.

[00:00:52]>> He was wearing a gray Essentials hoodie.

[00:00:55]Uh, he was black. He's standing out on the track right now.

[00:00:57]>> Do you still see the person?

[00:01:00]>> Yes.

[00:01:00]>> Okay.

[00:01:01]>> He's wearing blue sweatpants on.

[00:01:03]And dunk.

[00:01:04]>> Okay, where did he stab your friend at?

[00:01:07]>> Um, I don't know. My friend's bleeding everywhere.

[00:01:10]>> Okay.

[00:01:13]Where was he stabbed at?

[00:01:15]>> On the chest.

[00:01:17]>> Okay.

[00:01:19]And do you still see the person that stabbed him or did he leave?

[00:01:23]>> Well, it was Austin. Austin was stabbing his chest.

[00:01:28]>> I'm sorry, what did you say? The person that stabbed him, is he still there? Do you still see him?

[00:01:33]>> Um, there's a dolphin in my face.

[00:01:35]Uh, yeah.

[00:01:37]>> There's adults that are trying to assist him here.

[00:01:39]>> who he is. I don't know who he is.

[00:01:40]Sorry, what?

[00:01:41]>> The person that stabbed your friend, is he still there?

[00:01:45]>> Yeah, he's still here.

[00:01:46]>> Okay. And >> He's got a coach.

[00:01:48]>> There's a coach with him?

[00:01:50]>> Yes, he's he's with He's with a guy.

[00:01:53]>> Okay.

[00:01:54]Do you know if they if he still has the weapon on him?

[00:01:58]>> Um no clue, but he's like like he can't do nothing. He's like he's done.

[00:02:03]>> What What do you mean? What's >> He He does not seem like that.

[00:02:06]He's in the truck.

[00:02:07]>> What?

[00:02:08]>> What do you mean he can't do anything?

[00:02:09]What's going on with him?

[00:02:12]>> Like I mean like coaches have him. He can't hurt anyone.

[00:02:14]>> Okay, when you say they have him, are they physically holding him down?

[00:02:19]>> Uh no, like they're just holding him walking around.

[00:02:22]>> Okay.

[00:02:24]>> Oh, yeah.

[00:02:25]>> Cuz he's going to like see Austin try to make a move.

[00:02:29]>> OKAY. WHAT'S YOUR NAME?

[00:02:32]>> NATHAN NORDIKE.

[00:02:35]>> What's your last name?

[00:02:40]Nathan.

[00:02:42]>> Yes, sir.

[00:02:43]>> What's your last name?

[00:02:45]>> Nordike.

[00:02:46]>> Okay.

[00:02:48]And do you see any of the responders there yet?

[00:02:52]>> Um we hear the sirens, but we >> Okay.

[00:02:54]Just >> Coaches sent us out. We're all walking to our buses.

[00:02:57]>> Okay. So, you're going to get on a bus right now?

[00:03:00]>> Yes, ma'am.

[00:03:01]>> Okay.

[00:03:02]And uh the rest of the students are walking towards the buses?

[00:03:06]>> Yeah, everyone's being evacuated out of the stadium.

[00:03:11]>> Okay.

[00:03:13]>> Thank you so much for being quick.

[00:03:16]>> Okay.

[00:03:17]Just follow whatever directions you're being provided by either the officers or by your coaches, okay?

[00:03:23]>> Yes, ma'am.

[00:03:24]>> Okay. I'm going to go ahead and disconnect with you, Nathan, but we've got all kinds of help headed that way.

[00:03:29]>> All right. Thank you.

[00:03:30]>> Thank you. Bye-bye.

[00:03:32]>> Bye.

[00:03:34]>> What's up, family? If it's your first time checking out the show, let me know what city, what state you're coming in from. If you're outside of the US, let me know what country you're representing.

[00:03:43]Throw up your flag. Family, I need you to smash up the like. Smash up the like.

[00:03:48]Smash up the likes.

[00:03:51]Family, I got a special guest uh in the studio uh all the way from Dallas checking in to help us navigate through this wild crazy case.

[00:04:02]Um I got a trial attorney Andrew Wilkerson in the building.

[00:04:07]Boom, there he is. That's the good man.

[00:04:09]>> What's going on, man? You all right?

[00:04:11]>> Thanks for coming on the show. I'm I'm good, man. I'm good, man. Just just uh you know, trying to uh you trying to process this case just like everybody else. Uh this this is a what what one might call a a juggernaut, right? Um >> Yeah.

[00:04:27]>> Yeah, yeah, yeah. So and now that you've uh had a chance to see the incident video, now that the arrest footage has been released, you've heard the 911 call, I'd like to get your perspective as a veteran trial attorney.

[00:04:43]If you had been the lead counsel on this case, what would you have done differently than either side?

[00:04:54]>> I can I wasn't there, right? So I didn't see the trial, but I'm sure that I've heard everything that y'all heard and seen everything that y'all seen, okay?

[00:05:02]Um but I'm sure about now everyone has heard that he did not testify.

[00:05:07]Okay? Um that can't It can't be too many reasons for that. It's either because they weren't prepared for him to testify, which which falls on his attorney, or um they thought that there was some bad evidence, you know, that that was going to get presented if he testified. So I'm saying all that to say is I would have had I would have Mr. Anthony ready to testify.

[00:05:29]I would have had because it seems that you know, in going [snorts] through the police report, there's many things that needed to be further explained.

[00:05:37]There's many things that need to be further explained. The fact how he says um I think it's on page two, man. Uh he says "I'm not alleged, I did it."

[00:05:47]Uh he put his hands on me. I was protecting myself. You got to understand in a place like Collin County there's a cultural disconnect. Okay? He's a black man. He's a he he he's he he he he he is a black boy. You know our culture is different from theirs. They don't really understand how we talk, how we walk. You see what I'm saying?

[00:06:06]And I don't know how white folks took that.

[00:06:09]Touch me and and see what happens.

[00:06:13]You know?

[00:06:13]>> took it as a They took it as a threat. They said that was a threat that and that and that they said that that goes towards intention. Premeditated is what some people use, the word that some people use. Do you think that that if he Let's say he did say that does that create a a premeditation uh argument?

[00:06:37]>> No. No, if he said that I would face it right in front of the jury and ask them what he meant by it. And that's the problem.

[00:06:44]You see what I'm saying? He didn't even take the stand.

[00:06:47]So he wasn't able to get up there and say I wasn't threatening him. I was telling him that if he did something I was going to protect myself to the fullest of my capabilities. That's all the jury needed to hear him say instead of letting the jury sit here and go back and discuss what they thought he he meant. You understand what I'm saying? And understand those are just collateral issues. The main issue he needed to testify about was the self-defense issue that they tried to get. And you know, to be quite honest, I was talking to my highly esteemed colleague Michael Campbell about this.

[00:07:15]Even in order to get manslaughter, he probably needed to testify, right?

[00:07:19]Because for self-defense you need to testify that you were afraid of of serious bodily injury or death. But for manslaughter you need to tell them you did it because you were angry.

[00:07:29]Right? The jury was not let into the mind of Carmelo Anthony, period. And that was just So that's my answer to that question. I would have had him ready for all of that.

[00:07:39]>> What do you think What do you think the chances are that Carmelo Anthony's defense attorneys purposely sold him out?

[00:07:50]>> Look, man.

[00:07:52]You know, I I usually don't get in other attorneys' business. I say that a lot because it's true. But, in looking at what happened, I don't know if he did it on purpose.

[00:08:02]I don't know if he did it on accident, but it's the same result. Either Either Either you one of the good old boys, right? Which is bad. Or, you you just so incompetent that you didn't know how to prepare yourself, you know, correctly for this trial. And that's that's bad.

[00:08:18]So, I don't know if he did it on purpose. All I know is I see the result.

[00:08:21]And And And I heard what occurred. You know, the the the And And back to your last question, too. Even Willie, I can't You can't say, "Hit me and see what happens." and I punch you in the face. And I'm I'm right for that.

[00:08:34]That's assault.

[00:08:35]You see what I'm saying? So, I just want to take you back cuz people got it wrong. That's a collateral issue. That don't matter if he said, "Touch me and I'll do something." It don't matter because I can't be on the street, right?

[00:08:46]Downtown Dallas or Downtown Houston, and somebody say something to me and I just punch them in the face. I'm still going to jail for assault. I'm still the aggressive.

[00:08:54]You see what I'm saying? So, verbal provocation is not adequate provocation.

[00:08:58]I just wanted to, you know, go back on that. Just to get >> Another thing is this, man. I hear the police saying all the time, "Don't move.

[00:09:07]I'll shoot."

[00:09:11]>> Come on, now.

[00:09:12]>> Somebody move and they shoot >> And And they get And they get self They claim self-defense.

[00:09:19]>> "Show me your hands. Don't dig in your pockets. Don't do it. I'm going to shoot you. I'll shoot you. I'll blow you up."

[00:09:25]I've heard them say, "I'll blow your mother [ __ ] head off if you do that.

[00:09:28]You do that."

[00:09:30]That's what happened to uh What What's her What's her Is Is it Is it Sandra Bland? Bland? Bland? What How do you say her name?

[00:09:36]>> Yep. And next thing you know, they're saying the magic words. I was in imminent fear. Who says imminent fear?

[00:09:43]That's toast. You You regular person don't talk like that.

[00:09:46]>> Somebody that toast.

[00:09:48]>> Right, exactly.

[00:09:50]Exactly. Exactly.

[00:09:52]>> Yeah, Andrew, what do you think it was the single most powerful bit of evidence on both sides?

[00:10:04]>> Um I think the fact that on the state Let's start with the state side. Um I think the fact that they were allowed for 21 I think it was 21 witnesses. 21 witnesses to get up there and all of them to, you know, render an opinion on the ultimate issue. I heard that the last question for all cuz I do this. So, I heard that the last question for all 21 witnesses was, "Do you think this was self-defense?" Well, I'm hoping Mike Howard objected because they shouldn't be they shouldn't be saying if it's self-defense in front of the jury because that is a question that calls for them to make a legal conclusion and they're not lawyers. So, if he objected, that's something that they could take up on appeal. If not, the state might have snuck that one by, but you know, to sneak something by somebody 21 times, again, that either speaks to his incompetence or his involvement. I don't I don't know.

[00:10:54]I ain't saying which one it is. You see what I'm saying?

[00:10:59]And on the Go ahead.

[00:11:02]>> I think it's both.

[00:11:04]>> I think it's probably both.

[00:11:06]>> The reason why I say it's both is because number one, it was just for him not to present that for him for him not to object but only like a one or two times during the ti- entire trial, you know, for for him to think he could get away with that. That Now, that shows the incompetence. Like, you got I don't care how smart you think you are. You got to be short bus window licking slow to think that you going to be able to present that case in front of the world and that people ain't going to see what happened and and call that out.

[00:11:43]And that's why I believe that's one of the reasons why I do believe that Carmelo Anthony was able to assemble such a a great appellate team of lawyers because those lawyers looked at them and was like, "Nah, man, that ain't right."

[00:11:59]These lawyers got reputations, you know, just like everybody else. And they got integrity like everybody else. So, they like, "Man, I'm not going to They're not going to just go put their career on the line for somebody who you don't think that they can adequately defend.

[00:12:13]I think that the reason why those lawyers got on board is because they see that they see this case and they see how unfair it was. And I'll just go straight I'll call it straight a strike and a ball a ball. I think what I think what those lawyers did was absolutely criminal. And they should be investigated. Also, those 21 witnesses need to be investigated cuz I'm sure that some of them perjured themselves.

[00:12:43]The Eddie guy, are you familiar with him?

[00:12:47]Uh the guy that said he didn't know him, is that him? Yeah, the guy who was identified as a as Carmelo's friend but Carmelo's girlfriend's cousin and some some type of loose relationship as a cousin, right? This guy is the one who called Carmelo over to the tent and told you know invited him to sit down. And then when it went down, he allegedly recorded it.

[00:13:17]>> [clears throat] >> And when the trial happens, he gets on on the stand and say, "Carmelo wasn't invited. He don't even know who Carmelo was and they got pictures of him with Carmelo.

[00:13:29]Uh and he said he didn't even know who Carmelo was.

[00:13:33]This guy is very sketchy to me. This guy needs to be investigated.

[00:13:38]This guy this Eddie guy is is is is is a primary example of how important it is to pick your friends carefully.

[00:13:49]>> I mean look, I can tell you for certain that Collin County will coach the witnesses. Two months prior to this we got a not guilty out there in Collin County on a murder case. Think it's out of the 290 something court but we we got I mean two months prior to this and what you have to do is that's what I'm saying Willie. I wasn't there. So I don't know the veracity or the tenacity of this man's cross-examination. I don't know if he was letting them slide on certain things or if he was going at their throat but you know, the reason you don't let nobody go till you finish with them on that stand. I ain't letting you go till I'm finished with you. I'm going to have the detective up there all morning.

[00:14:25]If you got to use the bathroom, you might as well go ahead and use the bathroom and come on back cuz we we going to be here for a while until I cover all these questions I prepared.

[00:14:32]You see? So all you got to do I mean if you prepared your cross-examinations for all 21 witnesses, you've seen what they said before, you know, them saying something different from what's in their statement, that ain't no excuse.

[00:14:45]Oh, that's a dream.

[00:14:47]Oh, I'd love for me for me to review all of your statements that you gave and you come in here and say some [ __ ] Please do that cuz I'm going to rip you off the bone.

[00:14:55]So it's just really no excuse for it.

[00:14:57]And this perjury thing man, in that murder trial I told you that I won two months prior to that, all white jury by the way. Um you know, I got a witness to say that she was lying three questions in.

[00:15:12]>> Now what was the what was what was the complexion of of the participant?

[00:15:17]>> [laughter] >> Of of of the defendant or the witness?

[00:15:20]>> The the defendant and >> Black.

[00:15:23]and the victim.

[00:15:24]>> Black.

[00:15:24]>> Black. Both of them were black.

[00:15:26]>> Okay.

[00:15:27]>> Both of them were black. So, you know, the prosecutor stands up and says, "Judge, I'm sorry. I told her if she tells the truth, she'll be fine." And I'm looking like, "What [ __ ] she ain't tell the truth."

[00:15:37]She just told the jury she lied. But my point to you is perjury is when you're charged for lying under oath, right?

[00:15:45]Mr. Willie D, who's going to charge him?

[00:15:51]You see what I'm saying? You think the DA about to charge their own witness with perjury after saying what they told That's the issue with perjury. Perjury is a fallacy.

[00:16:00]Perjury is is for whoever they say it's for. But if if you the DA's star witness and you go say what the DA told you to say in this front little room, you see what I'm saying? He not going to charge you with perjury. Only way he going to charge you with perjury is is if you if you go off the off the island.

[00:16:15]If you go off the reservation and say something different that hurts his case.

[00:16:19]But he not going to, you know. So, that that that's a dream, all that perjury talk. You got to know how to control your witness. You got to know what's in your evidence, and you got to prep your you got to prep your cross. Your cross might go left It it's going to be a fork in the road every 5 minutes with your cross. But you're supposed to be prepared for that.

[00:16:36]So, you know, I like I say, it's just no I can't think of a you know, of an excuse, man.

[00:16:42]>> Do you think that Jeff Metcalfe, Austin's father, is helping his uh how would you say his his reputation, his public reputation, by going on these interviews and and speaking?

[00:16:57]Uh is he helping or hurting his public opinion about him?

[00:17:01]>> Is he Is Jeff Metcalfe hurting Jeff Metcalfe?

[00:17:05]>> Is Yeah, is is he hurting Is he hurting himself and is he hurting the case going forward because this ain't over.

[00:17:11]Uh Carmelo is Right. Carmelo is appealing this decision by the court.

[00:17:17]And so, this is not over. And what I want to know is, have you seen the racist rant that the dad went on?

[00:17:27]>> Man, I think I saw the first two and then I just ignored him, man. But to answer your question, I think he's hurting his his own image. I think that he's a very outlandish and proud person.

[00:17:39]I don't I don't know what reason he got to be proud, but but he acts very proud.

[00:17:42]He talks too much. He he says he says racial things, you know, um I think he's a bad winner.

[00:17:50]I think he thinks that this is over and he's won. I think he's a bad winner. He one of them folk, you know, after they beat you they just get they just got to [ __ ] talk you. You see what I'm saying?

[00:17:59]I I mean I think that his comments are reflective of where he sits, though, in in the racial argument.

[00:18:06]You know, I think they're they're very reflective of of of what side he's sitting on.

[00:18:11]Um but, you know, I and I think it I think it helps.

[00:18:15]Um I think it helps Carmelo's case and you and you mentioned it, the team of attorneys he had. Man, Russell Wilson leading that thing, man, that's a bad boy.

[00:18:23]Russell Wilson I hired Russell Wilson for me.

[00:18:26]>> [laughter] >> Whenever I got held in contempt, he he he came and handled my business. So, that that's what I'm talking about, a brain, man.

[00:18:33]A brain. Like he going to he going to outsmart them folk over there.

[00:18:37]He going to come at them in all different directions and he going to outsmart them folk and he going to do it in a very meek, astute, and and just you know, calm but he going to be at they throat, though. And then you got Justin Moore, you know, he's a civil rights attorney. I know Justin Moore got a couple murders under his belt. Uh holler at Justin. Shout out Justin. Uh and another thing about Russell, he does he tries cases and he does appeals.

[00:19:01]So, you're not going to get too much past Russell. Like Russell knows how to look at that transcript for the trial and point out what's wrong and fix it.

[00:19:09]You know what I'm saying? So, you know, I I I a lot of faith in in in that team and and I'm very excited, man. I'm very excited about that.

[00:19:17]>> Mhm.

[00:19:18]Well, was this case more about the law, the facts, or the credibility of the witnesses?

[00:19:29]>> I think it was more about the law.

[00:19:33]Well, if the appeal Let's Let's speak positively. When the appeal is granted, it'll be because of about the law. I think right now the case is about the facts.

[00:19:43]I think that's why they I think that's why they got the result that they got because they leaned too heavily in the facts, and they didn't use as much of the law to their to their advantage. And you know, you can't use uh uh the benefits of a self-defense claim without the defendant letting the jury inside his head, man. You just You just can't do that. It was almost like a pump fake or something. Like a 3-day long pump fake. I mean, you set it up for him to testify, and then he don't testify. And there's only two reasons. Either you didn't prep him, or or or he was scared shitless.

[00:20:16]But, proper preparation prevents piss-poor performance. You see what I'm saying?

[00:20:21]So, if you would have been prepping him I mean, what was that, a year ago? This case been pending for a year. You could have prepped him every Sunday.

[00:20:28]That's 50 times.

[00:20:30]You could have prepped him every Monday.

[00:20:31]That's You see what I'm saying? I mean, and and another thing, it's no excuse for it, man, because I've had my client, when we won the murder trial, he was inside. He was in custody.

[00:20:42]Carmelo was out, man. You You You You all could have Sunday dinner by the pool and go over your questions.

[00:20:47]You see what I'm saying? So, it's just it's just no excuse for it, man. And like I say, I'm not the attorney police.

[00:20:52]I'm not the ineffective assistance of counsel police. That's similar to snitching to me. You know what I'm saying? Like, so I I I I kind of do this, but I'm just telling you what I would have did. You know, I got a reputation of oh, we 17 and one in the murder cases, baby. I don't I don't really talk to the other side. You know what I'm saying? But I'm just telling you what what I would have done if it were me.

[00:21:12]>> Yeah.

[00:21:13]Yeah. Do you think >> But but but but but but I'm sorry. Let me say this. If ineffective assistance of counsel is the only way to get that man home though though, do it.

[00:21:22]I'm for it. If that's the only way, let's do it. Cuz that boy needs to come home.

[00:21:27]>> That's right. That's right. How how much impact do you think that newly released footage of the incident had on the jury if the jury would have been able to watch that video footage over and over and over again at home?

[00:21:46]>> You're saying like it's a bad thing that they could watch that outside of court?

[00:21:51]Is that what you're saying?

[00:21:52]>> I'm not saying it's bad or is it good.

[00:21:54]I'm just asking you, you know, I'm asking you what what do you think about it though? What what are your thoughts?

[00:22:01]>> I think it confuses things, man.

[00:22:03]What I think was wrong and what I think the defense should have tried to find a way to do cuz what I heard happened, you you can't really see the figures on the video all the way. You can see the scrapping, you can see the commotion, you can see the movement, which is all which is all vital to his defense, right? But I'm hearing that they let somebody get up there and explain who is who.

[00:22:24]I'm against that.

[00:22:26]>> [laughter] >> But but but but I'm against that cuz there's so many factors.

[00:22:30]>> They can't They wouldn't be able to see that. If I was there myself, I couldn't have I couldn't have told you where I was.

[00:22:37]>> Exactly.

[00:22:38]>> Because it's it's too it's it's it's it's too grainy. It's too blurry.

[00:22:43]Everything is black. All of the people and their bodies are black. So, you can't see who's what. Unless I had a full puffed out afro and I could say, "Well, that's got to be me right there."

[00:22:54]>> Right.

[00:22:55]>> the big puffed out afro.

[00:22:57]>> Right. And you got to understand, you know, um Um, in these cases I do, man. I mean, there's like I mean, maybe on average, 400 pieces of evidence. I delve deeply into each piece, man. So, that one piece of evidence, that's that's some old confusing stuff that that that that they doing over there to me. But, why you releasing it now, first of all? You see what I'm saying? Didn't they release it on Juneteenth or something? Something crazy like that.

[00:23:20]>> I think they did. I think they did it on Juneteenth.

[00:23:24]>> Yeah, but I mean, I think it's just confused because you have to look at all the evidence together. See, you got to understand, people are just looking there's many ways to a win. People are just looking if it was self-defense or not.

[00:23:35]Well, no. You need to be able to look at all the evidence and see because what's for certain in this case is the time didn't match the the crime. The time didn't match the act. You see what I'm saying? Now, a lot of ci- circumstances surround that because he didn't testify. You see what I'm saying?

[00:23:53]So, the jury can't say they knew what he was thinking. But, you know, all of the evidence in its totality is important because not only are you trying to get somebody off, get them a not guilty, you also trying to get them as least amount of evi- time as possible. You see what I'm saying? So, it could be something on that video that they could have used, you know, to to mitigate some evidence.

[00:24:13]But, I heard them, you know, that's another thing I heard when, you know, with much of an effort on the mitigating evidence in the punishment phase.

[00:24:20]Which is a big problem, man. That's a big deal.

[00:24:23]It's a big deal.

[00:24:25]>> Let's talk about the knife. Several people have argued that the knife uh should have changed because the knife was a multi-tool knife and not just a regular knife knife that uh that that should have changed the way that the the verdict came back. Legally speaking, what are your thoughts on that fact?

[00:24:50]>> I don't uh legally speaking, I'm glad you prefaced the question with that because a lot of people ain't going to be happy with my answer. If I don't think it I don't think that matters.

[00:25:01]If if it was a pencil and it was used to kill, it would be the it would be You see what I'm saying? It would qualify as a murder weapon.

[00:25:09]If it was a highlighter and it was used to kill, you got you got um a deadly weapon finding where the jury gets to decide if the weapon was used in a manner to cause, you know, death.

[00:25:23]And, you know, no matter what it is I mean if if it got the blood of, you know, Austin Mekkaoui on it or uh uh um you know, that's it's the murder weapon.

[00:25:33]>> So, even if it was legal under Texas law, you're saying that that shouldn't change anything?

[00:25:39]>> Well, what I'm saying is I think if that was a collateral issue, I don't think there's anything that swayed that that gave the jury the ability to to check the not guilty box.

[00:25:50]I think that's a collateral issue the state used to kind of make the jury madder at him. Oh, he has a knife on a school campus. That's That's what DAs do. They play on their emotions. So, even though, [clears throat] you know, his self-defense claim has nothing to do with if he should have had it the knife in the first place, that that don't really matter. The self-defense is if he thought that he was about to experience serious bodily uh um injury or death. You see what I'm saying? And he used uh uh um uh um you know, deadly force to to defend himself. It don't matter if he should have had the knife or shouldn't have. That's just some extra stuff they threw in there to make them white folks mad. And I'm telling you, in Collin County, what the DA going to do it it it never fails. He came to your community.

[00:26:33]He's doing this where your kids are going to school. Your kids are supposed to be safe. You know, they playing that whole card.

[00:26:39]So, even though that's not in the black letter of the law, that is a method they use to try to get the jury on their side and into dislike the defendant.

[00:26:48]You see? Yeah.

[00:26:50]>> Uh but I I I can understand why they would do that. I mean, everybody trying to win, right? So, I can understand >> And you're right.

[00:26:56]>> To be honest, if I if if I was on that side, I'd do the same thing. You know, my my thing is is to discredit the other side as much as I can. So, I So, I absolutely understand that. Um but if if you were uh preparing Carmelo Anthony's appeal today, you know, what what would be the main uh issue that you would bring up to try to get that appeal granted?

[00:27:24]>> Well, let's let's be very clear. Um I'm not an appeals attorney.

[00:27:29]Um but I do know how appeals work. And right now, I think this would be the part where we're getting the investigation done. We might be trying to track the jurors down and interview them. We might be We would definitely be looking at the uh I know that they're looking at the record right now to see what all of the appealable issues are.

[00:27:45]Again, uh um error has to be preserved by the trial attorney, meaning he has to object in order for those issues to be appealable. They're probably looking at that stuff. Uh the main thing that I've seen and had different um conversations with uh with people um you know, in the attorney community is the jury charge the judge put some language in there that that wasn't the law.

[00:28:09]That's that spoke about provocation.

[00:28:11]That basically made it seem like I can't say what the exact language is, but attorneys that see this uh know exactly what I'm talking about and probably everybody else, but it it was it was a paragraph that said something like, you know, almost was turning Carmelo into the aggressor. Like, if you believe that he was the aggressor in this case, blah blah blah. And that's the jury charge is a bunch of the it's a packet and it has all the law that the jury is supposed to depend on in it. The The judge reads it to them before they deliberate. It's a very big deal. So, so my point is if it ain't in the jury charge, you can't depend on it.

[00:28:49]And if it is in the jury charge, it has to be law. It has to be good law.

[00:28:53]So, if you put bad law in the jury charge and the jury use that to render their verdict, sounds like an appealable issue.

[00:29:01]>> Yeah, and and don't don't don't the jury rely heavily on instructions from the judge?

[00:29:08]So, if the judge say, "Hey, you need to be thinking this way. I need you I'm going to send you back here and I need you to come back out and look, y'all need to come up with a decision right now, today."

[00:29:19]It That that would be overstepping his boundaries, but I've I've heard of judges being able to do stuff like that and doesn't the ju- doesn't the uh the the jury rely heavily on the instructions from the judge?

[00:29:32]>> Are you talking about when the judge was like, "I'mma put y'all in a hotel tonight if y'all don't have a verdict?"

[00:29:37]Uh uh uh uh I I think that was improper, man.

[00:29:41]I think that was improper because you were basically rushing them to a decision. You know, it might be a juror here that that's ready to go home.

[00:29:49]It might be a juror here that that that, you know, want to go home to his babies tonight. He ain't trying to go to no hotel. That ain't what the judge talking about. I ain't trying to do that, judge.

[00:29:57]So, we feel I'm I'm finna go on and check this box right here. You know, I was strong on not guilty, but you know, it's cool, y'all. Let's let's go ahead and do guilty and get up out of here.

[00:30:05]See, those are the kind of things that entice a jury to to go outside the bounds of of of of what their duty is.

[00:30:13]That's why you don't say that. You say to them, "Hey, you know, y'all get this done as quickly as possible. Any questions y'all have, y'all send back to the bench and we'll get both sides in here and we'll we'll go over them." But, telling them what you going to do if they don't render a decision quick enough, how can you not think that's that didn't affect their decision? I mean, that's you know, they supposed to feel like they got all day. They got forever in a day to to as long as it's the correct verdict and they render it the right way. They they not supposed to feel like it's a shot clock.

[00:30:41]You know, when the shot clock on five, you look to shoot the ball. That's as simple as that, you know. So.

[00:30:47]>> Yeah, and it could be a also a situation where a juror may think that if he doesn't follow the directions of the judge, that somehow he might find himself in hot water with the courts.

[00:31:00]So, >> Yeah.

[00:31:02]>> there's a lot of jurors who show up for jury duty. They're not really acclimated to jury duty. They don't really know how the process goes.

[00:31:12]And so, they're counting the prosecution and they're counting on the judge, who by the way gets their check from the same people, >> By the way.

[00:31:23]>> [laughter] >> you know, to give them proper instructions legally. You know what I'm saying? You you you heard the the 911 call. I think we're getting the echo.

[00:31:36]>> Yeah, I heard it.

[00:31:37]>> Okay. So, you heard the 911 call.

[00:31:40]Uh was there anything in that 911 call that could have been helpful or hurtful to either side that wasn't emphasized during the trial?

[00:31:53]>> Not Not really to me. Because you you don't hear him say who's around him.

[00:31:59]You see what I'm saying? When I listen to a 911 call, I'm trying to see who's all in the room. Cuz I want to I want to subpoena them as a witness. I'm trying to see, you know, um you know, how many Who else called the police? Who was out there? Who saw?

[00:32:12]Who heard? Whatever. On the 911 call, he's pretty much just hysterical and he's saying that the guy's bleeding and um um and I think he describes Mr. Anthony as standing on the field or something. But he don't really say anything like, you know, "Hey Chris, pass me that ice up." "Hey Chris, hold his legs up." You know, it it's not it's nothing really that you could grab off of there to use to, you know, turn it into something helpful. To me, you know, now I would I do hope that they and I wrote the guy's name down. I ain't going to say it, but he says his name on the recording.

[00:32:45]And um you know, I do hope they cross-examine him or call him as a witness.

[00:32:50]You know, cuz it seemed like they weren't working with they wouldn't didn't have much to play with. You know, so I hope that that's something they sunk their teeth into.

[00:32:58]You know, I wouldn't know though, but yeah, I hope they did.

[00:33:00]>> Yeah. What do you think about the public reaction to all of this, man? You know, do you think that social media has made things uh more clear uh in terms of uh viewing the evidence for the public? Or or do you think that it it actually has made objective analysis more difficult?

[00:33:22]>> Um I think I think um I think people's concern and their question of his attorney and this entire situation are legitimate.

[00:33:33]I I think the questions are legitimate.

[00:33:35]I think that there's no way for somebody like me that went to law school to see this go on and not have questions.

[00:33:42]Um I think the Frisco Police Department kind of did some weird stuff, too, by letting people go down and watch the video. The You see what I don't really trust that. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but you got to understand me being a defense attorney, the prosecutor is required by law to give me everything, right? So, there's there's there's a very controlled environment where that happens, right? And I get everything. So, I can figure out if there's something you ain't giving me.

[00:34:12]You see what I'm saying?

[00:34:14]But, you know, how they know that's the full video?

[00:34:19]Who's regulating when the video starts?

[00:34:21]When the video You know what I'm saying?

[00:34:22]And I've never had a murder case where people in the public were allowed and they were they were broadcasting that that they were allowed to go down and watch the tape. It's almost like they were trying to taint the jury pool under the radar.

[00:34:38]You see what I'm saying? If, you know, if it's a I don't know, numbers, if it's 2 million people in Collin County and 200,000 of them seen the video, I mean, that's You see what I'm saying?

[00:34:49]I know 200,000 people didn't see the video, but I'm just saying, you don't know who going to be called down to be on your jury.

[00:34:55]And you letting random people just come see the evidence jury not supposed to even see the evidence until the case start.

[00:35:01]They not supposed to feel no kind of way about the evidence, they not allowed to read anything online about the trial during the trial, they not allowed to go to home and talk to their husband about it. They not None of that until you start deliberating.

[00:35:13]That's when. You see what I'm saying?

[00:35:15]So, you know, that was just very weird of them and it's almost like this fake um um this fake transparency.

[00:35:26]Right? Think about this. Think about this, William.

[00:35:29]You letting random people come watch the video at the police station, but the judge ain't letting no black reporters in.

[00:35:36]Are you transparent or you not transparent? You see what I'm saying? Do you You know, it's kind of like they hiding the ball somewhere. Like, why would you be this transparent over here with the evidence, but don't nobody except people that was in the courtroom know what was going on in the courtroom.

[00:35:51]You see what I'm saying? It's kind of like a fake It's like a pump fake. You know, I I I don't trust it. So, you asked how do I feel about people's response, the public's response. And And what I'm saying is I think there were a lot of things done to kind of confuse the public and to make them choose a side. I mean, how are people going to see the same video and some people saying it was punches, it wasn't no punches. Now we not arguing if he was self-defense, we arguing if if he was even under umbrella, if he was even under the umbrella at the time. Now we arguing if it was You know, it's just too It was too much going on, man. And I think that, you know, we should have been a lot more quiet about about our approach. That's how I would have been as a as an attorney. I wouldn't have did no press conferences.

[00:36:34]I wouldn't have threw the race card out there. I wouldn't have done Them folk wouldn't have knew what I was doing until until I hit them with it. Until I had my suit in my briefcase, they wouldn't have knew what I was doing. You know, I Do I think race plays a role in this? I kind of do, but that's something that you you kind of That's something you keep in your back pocket until it's time to pull it out. You feel me? You don't lead with that and let these white folks know for a year what your angle is.

[00:37:00]You see what I'm saying? That's something I would have kept in my back pocket and out of these 21 witnesses, you know, all the pieces of evidence that come in.

[00:37:08]Soon as something comes in to support more that it was a race thing, that's when you bring it out. That way they ain't ready for it. They got to think on their feet.

[00:37:16]You see what I'm saying? I'mma think on my feet. See, if you can't think on your feet, you're not a good attorney. You're not a good trial attorney. So, all that letting them know what the play was and being in the media, I just think that that kind of hurt, but that's the past though. That's the past. I don't mean to be negative. I don't want I don't want our people to think that I'm, you know, that's the past, but you know, um as far as how the public responded, I think a lot of things were done to make us look this way. Now everybody focused on race and it's so much race conversation that you know, M M's ain't even prepared for the case.

[00:37:49]You know, I mean, how how your How the defendant not ready? And I don't even think that falls on Mr. Anthony. I think that falls on the attorney.

[00:37:58]You know, I don't just lean over and whisper in my client's ear, "Hey, you ready to go next? You testifying next."

[00:38:03]And put it on him. I don't do that. I don't have, you know, 17 and one I ain't never did that. 12 years, I've never You prepare them. You do psychodrama. You you ask them questions for you to get to know him. You ask them questions for him to get to know himself. You talk about why he thinks the way he thinks. Then after you do all the preliminaries, then you have them tell you the story over and over and over again until he's so comfortable with it he can say it in his sleep. Then it don't matter what the DA done did in trial cuz cuz see my my defendants, they be like this, Willie.

[00:38:33]Is Is it my turn yet? Okay.

[00:38:36]They be ready.

[00:38:37]>> Yeah.

[00:38:38]>> [laughter] >> They be ready, you know what I'm saying?

[00:38:39]It don't be no, you know, timid. It's This This my time, and we prepared for this. So, you know.

[00:38:46]But yeah, very unfortunate, but but I think I think he got a good shot, man, with the team he has, man.

[00:38:52]Yeah, whole lot of faith in them boys, man, Russell and Justin, man, and in the mother tongue.

[00:38:57]In the mother tongue, excuse me. Whole lot of faith.

[00:39:00]>> Yeah. Uh it was reported that the father, Jeff Metcalf, had a barbecue and he invited the witnesses to his house.

[00:39:12]And it was also reported that he offered bribes to the witnesses to make sure that they testified in a way that was consistent with the outcome that he wanted.

[00:39:25]I- If If that is true, that is definitely grounds for a a retrial, right?

[00:39:33]>> If that is true, that needs to be investigated to the fullest extent. I I don't I don't know if it gets him a automatic new trial, but I know it gets him something.

[00:39:42]>> Uh Wouldn't Wouldn't Wouldn't that be criminal of him to do something like that, also?

[00:39:46]>> Yeah, yeah. That's witness tampering, for sure. But him getting charged with witness tampering because of it and Carmelo getting an entire new trial, I think that probably is in the realm of possibility, but that's a long road. You know, appeal is a long road, period. But But, you know, I think maybe going at um the improper things that were done by the judge, you know, that could be backed up with some law. See, an appeal, you want to throw the kitchen sink at them. You want to throw everything at them. You probably throw your strongest argument first, and then, you know, everything else fall by the wayside, but you need law to support it. You know, so you want to you know, all you need to do is is prove one issue.

[00:40:27]You see what I'm saying? So, if you throw 15 issues at them and you only prove one, you know, if it's reversed if it's irreversible error, um you'll win. You know, but like I say, an appeal is a long process. He has a good team of attorneys that will do, you know, all the legwork and all the legal work that needs to be done in order to do the process right and see that he's treated fairly. But, you know, um people need to know, you know, 90% of appeals get denied.

[00:40:53]You see what I'm saying? So, this ain't really something we want to rush on.

[00:40:56]It's something we want to make sure we get right. And and the attorneys that he has I I think they'll get it right. I think they'll be very meticulous.

[00:41:04]Um and and and they'll make sure that every box is checked and every stone is overturned for sure.

[00:41:09]>> Yeah.

[00:41:09]>> Yeah.

[00:41:10]>> Hey, if this had happened 10 years ago, do you think that the public's response would have been the same considering that people wasn't as active on social media?

[00:41:27]>> I think it probably would have been the same.

[00:41:29]You know.

[00:41:31]Black community been through a lot, man.

[00:41:33]We've been through a lot during the social media uh uh uh era, man. You know, uh unarmed people getting killed by the po-po and I mean, we got a we got a lot of reasons to feel the way we feel to the multitude that we feel it. You know, uh I think it would have been the same 10 years ago.

[00:41:48]Um you know, and I ain't mad at us neither. You know, uh who who who going to look after us but us, but we want to make sure that we know what the law says. We want to make sure that we know what the facts were and then we want to move, you know, um you know, in the best way we can to help that boy out.

[00:42:04]>> Yeah.

[00:42:04]>> You know, but yeah, I I I think uh probably would have been the same. And you think it would have been different?

[00:42:11]>> Uh no, I think it would have been the same because we still we didn't we didn't have social media, but we we got the news which mainstream news you can't really trust mainstream news, but mainstream news is such media hogs that that they will put any story out and anybody that want to talk, they got to keep on putting information out. They just going to feed the beast and so some of this is going to be they're going to so they're going to show both sides. They're going to show the protest and they're going to show uh the the supporters. They're going to show both sides because that makes for good media for them and it's and it does well for them in in regards to the numbers.

[00:42:52]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:42:54]I agree, man.

[00:42:56]I agree. I mean social media might have been a little bit more wild 10 years ago, honestly.

[00:43:00]So Yeah.

[00:43:03]>> Yeah, well, I I think that um I think Carmelo it it's going to fall into that 10% where he gets that new trial uh Uh often times uh yeah, you know, you can argue law when it comes to appeals, you can argue argue law and you still and you may have a great point, but you may not get you may not get that appeal because hey, nobody's really paying attention to the case and nobody cares, but the world eyes is on this case and so they got now they got to now dot those eyes and cross those tees. Lil Kyle and County thought they were going to be able to hang this boy and bury the case and nobody would care.

[00:43:46]And little did they know, that's why I believe that they did not allow cameras into the courtroom. I think they were trying to quietly make this thing go down. We're going to do what we want to do. We're going to hang him high.

[00:44:01]We're going to give them I'm going to give him a 35-year sentence and ain't nothing nobody going to be able to do about it. This is what I don't understand.

[00:44:09]So, you got a range of punishment from 5 to 99 years, right?

[00:44:13]>> Right. Right.

[00:44:14]>> That was his range of punishment, 5 to 99.

[00:44:18]>> Right.

[00:44:18]>> And so, I was always under the impression that the low end was for those people in society who may have uh may be more redeemable, who had, you know, who probably made a huge mistake, but not it wasn't it wasn't malicious. It wasn't a calculated malicious event. And so, if you look at Carmelo Anthony's uh if first of all, if you look at what happened, he was he didn't instigate the the incident. He didn't initiate anything. He was sitting down minding his own business, and he was accosted by a bully.

[00:44:59]Now, okay, so he stabs the guy. Uh you can believe what whatever you want to believe about how he stabbed him.

[00:45:08]>> Right. Right.

[00:45:09]>> And the guy dies.

[00:45:11]>> Right.

[00:45:12]>> It was not uh it was not premeditated. It was not planned.

[00:45:18]It's something that happened. You have people who uh commit crimes of passion, kill their uh spouse after catching them with somebody else, catching them cheating, and get 10 years in prison. I'm talking about grown people who are in their 30s and 40s, whose minds are as mature as they should be by that time.

[00:45:39]And they get 10 years, but you give this child 35 years, who otherwise is an exemplary citizen.

[00:45:48]He doesn't get it. He he he he is a model kid at home. Uh he's a honor roll student. He's not a troublemaker. People like him.

[00:45:59]>> Mhm.

[00:46:00]>> And on top of that, the the bonus is that he actually saved somebody's life before.

[00:46:08]If he don't qualify for the low end, if he don't qualify, let's just I think he's 100% innocent, but let's just say he's guilty and let's give him that.

[00:46:19]He's guilty.

[00:46:20]If he don't qualify for the 5 years, who in the hell does?

[00:46:25]>> Exactly. Look, I mean, that's one of the things that they may have a play on ineffective assistance of counsel. What did you say?

[00:46:33]Most of the time the lower numbers for the people who are redeemable, right?

[00:46:37]Who are exemplary citizens, right?

[00:46:40]That's what mitigating evidence does in the punishment phase. All he had to do, look, I reached out to the mom of the person whose life Carmelo saved. I reached out to the mom, and I had one question. I just had one question.

[00:46:54]I wanted to know was she subpoenaed.

[00:46:56]She said, "No.

[00:46:58]I would have been there."

[00:46:59]>> Why?

[00:47:00]>> I mean, you she said, "No. I would have been there." You got to understand, to not even have her on ice, you're supposed to have her in the waiting room or or sitting down by the vending machines with with you know, with a Coke and some chips waiting on you to send her the text. You see what I'm saying?

[00:47:14]You're supposed to have her in the building. You got to understand, you know, that's why not calling him is so futile and it's so egregious. You didn't call him in the guilt and innocence phase. Okay, I don't understand that either, but that's the guilt and innocence phase. Once the the verdict came down, now all you guys are focused on is getting him the least amount of time possible. Willie, I promise you, I promise you, anywhere between 10 to 15 times during that trial, the prosecutor said the words indifferent to human life.

[00:47:45]Um um doesn't care about life. The entire time they were saying statements to make him seem like he is a person that has no regard for human life, okay?

[00:47:55]It ain't nothing that rebuts that more than putting him up there for him to say I actually saved a life.

[00:48:03]I mean, I actually risked my life to save a life. You see what I'm saying?

[00:48:08]They could have had something for them to look at. They could have had the the newspaper article. Enter that into evidence or or had the judge take judicial notice of it.

[00:48:16]Publish it to the jury. And while I got Carmelo on the stand telling them about the decision he made to to make sure somebody else, you know, continue to breathe, I got the jury looking at the at the evidence, looking at the paper.

[00:48:29]Passing it to the next jury. Looking at the paper, reading the article. You see so they can see that this man quite frankly, he does have a regard for human life. And he and he doesn't have a reckless disregard for human I mean, so to not even to not even put your bid in on that. To not even call I mean, it's one thing not to call her. To not even subpoena her, say she wasn't part of your preparation.

[00:48:56]It says she just wasn't on the list.

[00:48:59]I mean, I I it might be 50 different witnesses and I'll put a dash and I'll put their role in the case. You see what I'm saying? And if he knew that was her role that that she felt good enough to not only go on social media, but to get in the newspaper article and and and give him praise for saving her son's life, she wouldn't have no problem doing it on the stand. He called Carmelo's mom.

[00:49:19]Okay? That ain't that ain't no fault to Carmelo's mom. I'm sure she did the best she could up there. But not letting him explain And another thing, you said that um you know, it was heat of passion or whatever. Okay.

[00:49:33]People don't know once a guilty uh verdict for a murder comes out, you get a second bite at the apple to get sudden passion. Right? So he could have put Carmelo up there. They could have did away with the with the self-defense stuff. No more talking about self-defense. But he could have put him up there in the punishment phase and had him say that he did that cuz he was so angry that you know the Metcalf boy tried to punk him or that the guy you know something. He could have got up there and explained to them why it wasn't premeditated and it was just something he did that was based on heat of passion. They didn't even do that.

[00:50:09]So I mean it's just I don't know man.

[00:50:11]I'm with you. You know somebody diving in a pool to save somebody else man.

[00:50:15]That's that's a certain type of person.

[00:50:18]You see what I'm saying and the jury deserve to know that and Carmelo deserved better than that. He deserved for the jury to know that that not you know I ain't saying it equals out but it certainly takes away from the prosecution's claim that I don't care about life.

[00:50:32]You know which probably which could have took that 35 down to 15 or could have took the 35 down to five.

[00:50:39]You know so you know and honestly another thing about sudden passion if the jury feels that it was sudden passion it takes you back to two I think it takes you back to two to 10. I think it takes you back to two to 10.

[00:50:52]And they wouldn't have been able to give him more than 10.

[00:50:55]I'm almost positive it does. You know but it it's just the point I'm making to you you see all the avenues I'm explaining to you it's just it's just too many different roads to get them the result that they sought.

[00:51:09]And for no road to be taken at all man that's just like I say the people's concern is legitimate man. It's legitimate.

[00:51:17]You know.

[00:51:18]>> True. So I've been hearing a lot of uh chatter in the background where people are saying things like his parents Carmelo's parents did not sit in on the hearing uh the sentencing phase. When they actually sentenced him when the judge gave him his time the his parents were not there.

[00:51:40]Can you explain uh to the slowpokes out there why a loving mother and father may not sit in on listening to a judge give their child who was found guilty time.

[00:52:00]>> It's probably broken, man. I mean, it's a mom It's a mom losing a son. I've I've had plenty of moms that um you know, after we get the the the verdict, the not guilty verdict on the murder, right? Well, um you know, once we get and say there's a guilty verdict on a manslaughter, the lesser included. Well, mama probably sitting in the hall for that. You know, she's relieved. She's relieved that you you you know, you didn't get convicted of murder, but it's just too much for them sometimes, man. I mean, those are his parents, man. You know, I've had I've had conversations with the father.

[00:52:37]I haven't had conversations with the mom. I assumed it was because uh she was a little hand more hands-off because because she was, you know, going through emotions and and dealing with how this, you know, this is emotionally affecting her, but you know, that ain't that ain't nothing like These are things that are talked about months before, man. You know, when I do a case, I tell people I don't make it to the punishment phase often. I don't. I'm not bragging about that. I'm bragging in the Lord. You know, good Lord then blessed me to to to to have the skills to pay the bills, and most of the time we get a not guilty.

[00:53:10]Hence, not guilty boys. You know what I'm saying what I'm saying? But, in the event that they do come back guilty, we're going to have to go through a punishment phase. And I say, "Give me a list of people that can say something good about you."

[00:53:22]Give me Give me a pastor that can say something good about you. Pick your favorite teacher of all time and give me her information. And we And we prepare for that. You see what I'm saying? So, my point to you is is, you know, I'm sure the attorney was probably aware that mama ain't want to sit in there and and listen to that. You know, I mean, she's probably outside trying to keep it together, man, and my heart goes out to that family, man. I mean, you know, I I I can't imagine what losing a child is like, you know? So, I mean, that that don't that didn't play that much into anything for me. You know, I I I tell the mama, I say, "Mama, do whatever makes you comfortable. I'm going to go I'm going to go in here and do my business. I come out here and tell you what the verdict was." You know, so. Um yeah, I think we got to be sensitive to that, man, but, you know, I I I can't imagine how hard it is having to emotionally keep it together and still get this work done. Because you got to understand, an appeal, I mean, it ain't forever.

[00:54:16]You know, they only got a certain amount of time to hire an attorney, get the investigation done, and so I'm sure they're juggling a lot, man. You know what I'm saying? But, you know, um you know, it it it's hard to know what they're thinking, though. It's hard to know what they're thinking. You know, I'm I'm I'm I'm sure it's traumatic, though.

[00:54:33]>> As a trial attorney, how hard is it for you to emotionally keep it together and still get the work done? Because you know, you're often like you you have to you have to deal with families' grief, and you know, you when they call you often times you're dealing with a with people when they're going through one of the roughest patches of their life. You being a passionate guy who does the work that you do with your partner, you know, you know, how much does these type of cases take out of you?

[00:55:08]>> Man, uh I got to be humble in the Lord and and say it it it don't take much out of me at all, man. And and I'm laughing because I've been asked that before, and people don't believe it, but I I mean, I I I haven't worked since May 16th, 2014, man. This what I was put on this world to do. You know, I was put here to be a conduit of of the Lord's grace and mercy, man. You know, everybody got a job to do. I mean, the good book say that, you know, Christ is the head of all all government, you know, what I'm saying? So, my point is I think he cool with what I do. I mean, he he the head of government. Everybody got a job to do. I mean, if if you're a prosecutor and you are just as passionate about putting people in jail as I am about keeping people out of jail, I ain't mad at you cuz I can relate to your passion. Now, I'm going to beat you. I need to beat you. I'm going to put pressure on myself to beat you cuz I don't want you to win. I don't want you to gain your objective and put another black man in jail. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying?

[00:56:03]So, it don't take nothing out of me, man, cuz I'm very passionate about it.

[00:56:06]And the way I got into this cuz I got in a lot of trouble growing up. And I didn't have a lawyer for me. So, I'm very I'm very knee-deep in in in my in my purpose, man. So, you know, I think it just comes with the game. If you got to explain to mama what happens to her baby if this goes wrong, then that's my responsibility. But, I don't think that I try not to play I try not to pay any attention to the emotional side. The DA is going to do that enough.

[00:56:32]You know, I got to make sure that I'm sharp. I got to make sure that I'm thinking on my feet and I got to make sure that I know what the DA's next move is. So, there ain't really much time to be sad and going through it. Now, I have been in some trials where the pictures, you know, maybe a baby passed or something and the pictures kind of mess you up. And you know, if you got kids, but anything other than that, man, I mean, I'm sure other attorneys do, but now, me and Mike, man, this kind of this kind of what we was put here to do, man.

[00:56:56]So, you can have a lot of confidence when you know you got the Lord by you, you know.

[00:57:01]>> Yeah. And I I wanted to show everybody your your your web uh YouTube channel.

[00:57:06]This is uh Not Guilty Boys, right?

[00:57:10]>> Yes, sir.

[00:57:11]>> Yeah, Not Guilty Boys. This is This is the YouTube channel. Y'all go follow this channel, fam. You're going to learn a whole lot.

[00:57:17]Go follow the channel right now, everybody. I'm going to give y'all a moment to go follow this channel.

[00:57:21]>> Shout out to Michael Campbell, too, man, the other half of Not Guilty Boys, man.

[00:57:25]>> That's right.

[00:57:25]>> Out there stepping.

[00:57:27]>> Come on now. Come on now. Speak on it, fam.

[00:57:30]We going We at 589 subscribers at the very least man. I know we got at least 3000 people listening. We supposed to be over 3000 at least subscribers before we get off this line. At least.

[00:57:41]>> We 17 We 17 and one in murder trials man. We just trying to get our people something to sink their teeth into man.

[00:57:49]Let y'all guys know what the law is. Let y'all know what to do when you pulled over. You know, we just want to be a place y'all can come to to see find out more about the law and how to apply it man.

[00:57:59]>> Yeah. That's what's up.

[00:58:02]That's what's up.

[00:58:02]>> Give us a call if you need us. I appreciate you having me on the on the show man. I really do. And I'd love to be here again honestly.

[00:58:09]>> Absolutely man. I got you. I got you man. I appreciate you coming on the show and imparting your wisdom.

[00:58:15]>> What's up?

[00:58:16]>> Ladies and gentlemen, Andrew Wilkerson attorney and Andrew uh uh >> [laughter] >> Yes sir.

[00:58:24]>> Uh let me put some respect on his name.

[00:58:27]That's what's up. No more talk.