BLISS Backstage: John Nieri (Emergent Reasons) of General Protocols

Añadido: 2026-05-30

[00:00:00]With EXO, your money isn't [music] tied to a website. The same template runs in the app, the wallet, the back end, and anywhere else EXO exists. [music] One template, any interface.

[00:00:18]Most wallets [music] stop at balances. A number beside one token, another number beside the next.

[00:00:25]EXO carries the whole [music] state.

[00:00:28]Contracts in real time.

[00:00:31]It is not just what [music] you own, but what you've committed to.

[00:00:35]What's unfolding, what still matters.

[00:00:38]EXO is not [music] a receipt, but real understanding of your assets.

[00:00:50]Okay, hello. We're here with Bliss backstage, a series of short interviews with the people behind the scenes at BCH Bliss 2026.

[00:01:03]Today, I have John Yeri, aka Emerging Reasons, from General Protocols. Welcome to the program. It's been a little while. Yes, it has. We've been 2 years since the original Bliss, which you were at. I'm just wondering if you can cast your mind back to that and have any reflections on how the scene was then and how it is now.

[00:01:23]>> Um I mean, I'm really looking forward to seeing what's going on this year and how things have changed because I didn't go last year, right? I wasn't able to go, so but I mean, the first year was already amazing. Um there was always stories of things going on, the you know, difficulties or whatever, but you guys did an amazing job putting on the first year. It was incredible, so I think this year's going to be great. The key is consistency, and we're starting to build up that base of having people come back year after year, and you just level up a a few small things here and there, and before you know it, you've got a grand production, so we're we're thrilled to be back here. The number one thing that everybody has been talking about, which I'm sure you know about and maybe you can give us some insight into, is EXO templates. Everybody has been hyped about that for probably over a year at this point, and uh we're all looking forward to a release, but it's still been mostly under wraps. Can you >> is. give us some updates on where that's at? Yes, of course. So, uh we've been work It's It's very important to us, right? It's important to us because there's a whole backstory to EXO about why we're interested in it and why we think it's important, but uh basically, we think without EXO or something very much like EXO, BCH and crypto in general just cannot progress. Like, we can't actually reach millions and billions of people until things become easier to develop, cheaper to develop, and uh a better user experience, better developer experience.

[00:02:50]Everything just has to be much better across the board. And we have dealt with the pain since 8 years ago when we started of building with what we had and getting to where we are. And so, we've had a lot of pain along that road, and all of those little pain points added up together are kind of like, yeah, we have to do better on all of these things. And that's kind of what EXO is is uh putting together a thing where anyone can build apps, anyone can build wallets, and so forth without all of the pain uh of doing it, and then things be safe, uh things be secure, uh just everything better across the board. Uh yes, and so, it's very important to us because for us to reach where we want to go, we realize that we have to have that, too. So, it's not just for us, it's for everybody. So, it's for BCH, for BCH ecosystem, and for ourselves.

[00:03:44]So, yes, we've been working very hard on that. That's pretty much all we think on day-to-day, but it's all in the background, right? because it's it's all new things. It's a lot of new things to work on, a lot of new ideas that we're still testing out.

[00:03:59]We've tried one thing and then we just said, "You know what? Scrap that." And then we go and try it again. So, we're very reluctant to say, "Oh, yeah, we're definitely on the the final version to things." Because you have to just try things out and see how they work. But, uh Jonathan will be presenting a little bit about more precisely where we are. And we've reached a point where we can start to actually put together a Here's a little app that does a thing and here's a little wallet that does a thing and here's the people that are involved and they can work like this and do the thing. So, it's all at the kind of proof of concept level.

[00:04:33]But, uh but that's actually coming very far because when you've got hard problems to solve, just reaching like a workable proof of concept is a really big deal.

[00:04:42]Because once you have the right idea, it everything starts to accelerate because you've solved the problems and now you've just got to build towards It's mostly just execution.

[00:04:52]>> Yes, it's just execution once you've solved the problems. And one of the things I heard people talking about yesterday I found quite interesting was this sort of historical perspective that once upon a time, as you know, you had BTC and then Ethereum started to come up on the scene and one of the theories people had about why that was so successful and why they've got to where they are now is that they were able to create a paradigm shift with DeFi. There was a time when there was no DeFi and there was no even language to go with it. There was no EVM and all these terms, you know, DEXes and AMMs and all this not only technology, but also language has come with it to describe a brand new thing because when you're fighting uphill against the network effect, if you don't have a genuine paradigm shift, it's very hard to get people to take you seriously and that seems to be kind of the hope for BCH that XO templates will be that that we can step beyond anything else that exists in the industry and so we're starting to spitball maybe names or terms or phrases for things that would catch the popular imagination and could really make people think okay this is something different. In your internal development, is that a believable story?

[00:06:14]Yeah, absolutely. I I actually think in a way it's less romantic than that but better because uh when ETH came out, they also had no idea about DeFi. The people who made ETH were talking about the world computer and it was all super nerdy and uh they didn't have any concept of all these crazy things that people were going to do and then the the AMM, the automatic market maker and other things appeared not by the original creators, right? But by other people and then that took off, right? The the that that whole space of DeFi appeared and all the the language and everything around it appeared. Uh but they also have huge drawbacks, right? That that we probably shouldn't get into but huge drawbacks to the foundational layer of EVM, huge drawbacks to the the how they actually did all that and and global state and the way the wallets work and everything.

[00:07:07]So they they had a huge thing, it grew very quickly, they reached great success and then they also have a lot of baggage to it. And so the the less romantic part is that we can look at that and say we can just do better than that. We can just bypass all those uh mistakes and do better than that. And where it goes from there, yes, of course, because it's actually going to scale. When you can't scale um uh there's an old quote, right? Uh quantity is a quality all its own. Uh if you can't actually scale, then you don't actually get to interesting things to some degree because you're not actually working with a lot of different people.

[00:07:46]But that's the whole point of BCH is to reach millions and eventually billions of people. So yeah, take the ideas of D5 that always get run into a wall of scaling, right? They always run into a wall, which of course we knew many, many years ago was going to happen, but it does and then you don't go anywhere. But if you can actually do those things and actually reach millions of people, it's going to start to reach a very different level where the quality is different because the quantity is different. Yes.

[00:08:15]And one of the things that we also talked about as we were discussing this idea yesterday was about distribution, right? The idea that if you have a templating system implemented in the four or five main wallets that are the bulk of what everybody is using, then that lets new innovations ship to everyone at a rate that would not be possible if every wallet had to integrate every single app and then they all had to link up to each other. It's just exponentially faster, right? It's not it's just not possible, period. You know, we made Flipstarter and some other things that people have made and unless you have a custom interface for it, it's just not going to fly. You just things are not going to work. You just can't do it because the wallets just don't understand things well enough and these all get into like technical discussions that that don't make sense at a high level, but at the high level exactly what you said happens. People are like, "Why aren't there all these apps?" And then it's like, "Because it's really expensive to make them and even if I make it, nobody else does it and if nobody else does it, then there's no reason for me to make it." So it's this uh vicious cycle of of things not getting built because somebody else isn't building the thing. And yes, like you said with the templates and the way that EXO is made, uh you move the trust from domains, URLs, companies, big names, you move the trust from there Uh uh to templates because there's always going to be trust but you relocate that to these templates and now you have this nice package that can be audited checked verified observed hack that very you know strictly and once you have those things well then yeah like you said any wallet that does XO or or uses the XO standard can can make use of that template so I come up with a new protocol that does some amazing new loan protocol or some kind of recurring payments or vaults or quantum resistance or whatever I I put all that knowledge into the template now everybody has it everybody uses XO now has access to that protocol so yes exactly like you said and that's something that I was >> that's the cost part right and then there's the cost part where I said if everybody has to be an expert and everybody has to implement every it's just not even that it's not feasible it's just not going to happen so the leverage for individual contributors is just so much higher which maps naturally to the way the industry is where not everybody is a deep expert in cryptography actually most people just want to be able to click install right I think of it maybe as sort of like an app store experience that we're going to have in wallets that you'll be able to go to and either you can scan onto individual websites with maybe like cash connect wizard connect or they will just be built straight into the wallet as sort of optional downloads or activations that you can just tick I want this option for privacy I want this version of quantum resistant I want whatever right this kind of DFI and it would all just seamlessly work and if you ever get sick of your wallet you can just pick up another one import your seed phrase maybe some backup data and you're rolling yes at a risk of being too technical um those those templates are there that allow me to do that. But the reason one of the reasons that works is because the template is there and there's the system behind it, the engine underneath it, you know, we call it the XO stack. There's the engine underneath it that understands how templates work and understands all the details and it understands all the details of the things downstream, right? The the blockchain and connections and uh indexers and all oracles and prices and all those things. It understands all that stuff that's that's downstream of all this, right? And so it understands all that for the app developer. The app developer doesn't need to understand all those things now, right? Of course, they they understand some parts of it, but it's like uh app developers today who use credit cards, they don't know how the credit card system works. They just use >> API.

[00:12:17]>> Stripe API and it works for them. And so of course this isn't an API, all right?

[00:12:21]We're not talking about an API, but the same concept that the system needs to be very smart in order for it to be simple for developers and users. And that's what we're doing is making it very smart. So we're not there yet, but what kind of time frame are you expecting?

[00:12:36]Because even after you've announced things and released things to the public maybe in the next couple days at Bliss, it's going to take a little while for everyone to dig into it and there's also still some infrastructure that needs to be rolled out in terms of integration into the wallets and maybe the temp rate template libraries and verifications, that kind of thing. So what sort of time frame would you expect before we're going to have those first apps really starting to roll out across the ecosystem in earnest? Rollout is a dangerous word there. So being able to do something is something that Jonathan will show in his presentation is possible already. So we already know how to do things, um, but something we learned with general protocols, you know, starting a years ago when there was no infrastructure basically for almost anything and you have to build it all up, there's a lot of those, you know, we said we're solving hard problems. Each of those hard problems comes with some amount of infrastructure and so forth that needs to be built. So, to go from you can do a thing to you can do it for users instead of just, you know, as a demonstration is a really huge step. And so, that part is going to take longer.

[00:13:47]But, we are putting something out here at the conference and then, of course, ongoing that developers will be able to look at and be like, "Oh, I like this. I see how it works. I want to try something. I want to make my own template." So, we're already at that point, but to reach the point where you can put it in your wallet and then have, you know, hundreds thousands of users actually making use of it requires all that infrastructure to be built out. That's going to take a long time. So, that's going to take months, a year to to keep building out.

[00:14:15]>> Okay, a long time, months, a year. Well, cryptocurrency moves fast, >> [laughter] >> as we know, but that doesn't sound all that long to me because we'll be sitting here next year talking talking about how it's already rolled out then. Well, well, the way we look at it, it doesn't matter what people are doing until XO or somebody does better than us and builds some equivalent thing, you can't you can't really make a lot of progress. It's just not going to happen.

[00:14:42]You mentioned privacy and quantum and another one I think of is multi-sig and vaults. Do you have any favorites either among that category or extra that you think will be the use case that draws people to try out templates or they'll be excited about what's happening in BCH? Vaults are a big part, recurring payments, because people think recurring payments, that's just payments. No, it's not. Recurring payments is is a whole logic set up to it that doesn't work without contracts, which doesn't work without a bunch of logic, which means unless all your wallets understand contracts and logic and and all those things, then they can't use recurring payments, even though it sounds like a simple idea. Yeah, so recurring payments um the things that Moria and Periana doing with loans, stable coins, whatever. I have no idea what the niche thing is going to be that really grabs on and takes off. But the thing that uh This doesn't answer your question, but that's on the top of my mind is oracles, right? So we've recently had a quite a bad debacle with one of the very minor oracles causing us a huge headache. And when you look at the way oracles work uh they have to be smarter. They have to be better.

[00:15:57]And that's something that's on the top of my mind is because if you think about all the apps that people can build that are interesting most of them need some kind of oracle.

[00:16:08]And as soon as you need an oracle and you're building on you know the the the image of uh of the internet where it's all these blocks and there's this one little peg.

[00:16:18]Uh yes.

[00:16:20]flick that one out and the whole thing is going to collapse. Oracles are kind of like that. Yes. This real flaky column holding up the whole thing. So we'd really like to do that better. But but it's also one of those things where it's like it's kind of a long-term thing that needs to get done. Is it something we have to do right now?

[00:16:38]Well, it sounds sounds like it is. I mean that is a problem that has been looked into in a lot of other crypto >> Yes. sectors as well too. Why is it that BCH is going to be able to find an answer there that is better than what anyone else has? Or is it just a question of time and investment in the infrastructure to level up to that level? Yeah, I don't think there's any magic to it.

[00:17:00]Um the magic is very subtle. It's in the incentives.

[00:17:05]Uh how you incentivize a thing. So if you look at some of the other oracle systems like Chainlink and others in our opinion they incentivize the wrong things. They incentivize production of data.

[00:17:15]So you get paid to produce data. This is this oversimplification, but you get paid to produce data, which doesn't It's like supply-side economics. It doesn't really make sense, right? So, really you want to be paying for when you consume data. When you consume prices is is So, yeah, just trying to work out those little details and incentives, get that just right. Again, not very romantic, but look at all the mistakes of the past and and just do a better thing than others have done. You mentioned incentives >> Yeah, you mentioned incentives and funding, which I think is also quite a big topic in BCH at the moment. People are feeling like the infrastructure or the ecosystem is quite stable and also quite powerful and aligned, but it's still small and maybe lacking both a good coordination and quantity of funding sources.

[00:18:07]How and where do we level up on that?

[00:18:10]I'm just constantly uh doing my my terrible but constant job of sales. So, anytime I meet somebody that I think uh has the right mindset, you know, has the right things in mind, has a reasonable philosophy, is reasonably trustworthy, I hit them up. I try to get them [laughter] to to come in and see if they're interested in running VC or uh doing some kind of organization because it's a very different thing. Um people are accustomed to VC. They understand what that means.

[00:18:42]Um but it means a centralized thing. You know, there's a centralized fund. They buy a company. They buy this thing. They invest in this thing. And it's much harder for them to understand my my shareholders is a distributed set of people who all have their own interests, and I'm not the boss of any of them.

[00:19:02]It's a much harder thing to wrap your head around. I think it's a very interesting problem that the right person is going to make a killing on once they figure out how to be a VC for a decentralized ecosystem that doesn't have a single boss and they're not in charge of all these people. Once somebody figures that out, I think it's going to be huge because the the upside of that is huge, right?

[00:19:23]Because as as large as the ecosystem grows, yeah. You you don't have an organization that involves all those people. It's just the coordination, so.

[00:19:31]I don't know if that answers your question, but >> Well, it's in the right direction. I mean, I I have my own thoughts about that, but I just know that that's a topical thing that people are discussing here at the com- conference and it's because we're in a growing ecosystem, right? We're not There's been many years of BCH having problems and being stuck or delayed or in-fighting, but once everybody is on the same team and everything is working, that's when people think, "Okay, how can we kick this up a notch, right?" Sure. Sure, yeah, yeah. People love to be on the winning team. That's a tale as old as time. So, we show that BCH is a winning team and it it attracts more people.

[00:20:06]That's just natural. Takes money to to make money. Okay, I also know you mentioned before Parion and the launch of their new stable coin. Of course, we also have the mUSD Moria stable coin.

[00:20:19]So, BCH now has two decentralized stable coin projects and in the broader ecosystem, we're seeing a big move towards stable coins of all varieties.

[00:20:30]Do you feel like BCH is well placed in that part of the industry or have we still got a ways to go?

[00:20:39]There's a nice very nice answer to that, which is the stable coin industry is USDT pretty much or maybe USDT and like a little slice of USDC or whatnot. So, there's a there's there's forces at play there that we are very much not in place to to direct or redirect or, you know, take advantage of.

[00:21:02]But, as far as making something that could take off, yes, absolutely.

[00:21:08]Uh these guys are working on things that that need to be done, that we need to show that we can do them. Because for example, USDT has been on BCH before in the past. BCH has had USDT in the past, and then they saw how it was on the old this thing called SLP, which I'm sure you know about, but um so there was this old SLP way of doing things, and they joined that, and they put USDT on it, and then they realized it didn't really work for them, and they left.

[00:21:33]So that's that's not good at all, right?

[00:21:35]So yes, you have to be able to show that you can do the thing.

[00:21:38]And once you can do that, then you're in a position to to start tapping into those flows and those uh that liquidity and so forth.

[00:21:48]But uh yeah, I don't know. That's a hard That's a hard one. I'm I'm personally not super interested in stable coins, so but uh so I'm sure those guys are thinking about it. Like how do they interact with how do they compete with USDT? How do they attract the same liquidity and so forth? Well, but you do work with BCH Bull on a volatility solution.

[00:22:08]>> Oh yeah. So how is that going to stay relevant or ahead of the game in a market where people are coming in with these other more broadly adopted volatility solutions? Well, when we made not BCH Bull, but the AnyHedge protocol, right? It was back in 2018, and what you could do with BCH was a a a much smaller little tiny box that we could work in compared to the incredible power that we have today. And so what we could do with that tiny box, you kind of run through the ideas, and it's like, "Can't do that. Can't do that. Can't do that. Can't do that." Oh, we can do this. We can do this one thing where we take a price, and then we calculate this one number. That's about all we can do. That was AnyHedge, right?

[00:22:50]And so I don't expect AnyHedge to to keep just flying off to the moon. Um and even from a traditional finance perspective, it's it's something called forward contracts.

[00:23:04]Forward contracts are traditionally just not very popular except for like farmers and like very particular market niche.

[00:23:11]So, I don't expect it to be the thing that keeps taking off, but our name is, you know, general protocols. We never wanted to do one protocol. We have a huge list of things that we want to do. So, I expect it to keep going because people find use in it, ourselves included. But, we also think that the things that are going to take off is probably other other protocols.

[00:23:32]So, what are those things? You've already mentioned templates. Is there anything else that's now starting to simmer in the background?

[00:23:39]Well, the templates is just the infrastructure, right? The whole XO stack is just the infrastructure that we need so that we can't even do general protocols because until we do XO or we have something like that, you're really stuck with, "Okay, let's choose a protocol and invest 4 years into building it out." It's a ridiculous investment to make. It's huge investment. Um, and very bad situation to make mistakes, which is terrible, right? You need to be able to to experiment and try things out and iterate.

[00:24:08]So, no, do XO.

[00:24:10]And then we have all these ideas of actual business things to do, right?

[00:24:14]There's the oracles, there's just traditional financial products. Well, it's funny. There's traditional finance, there's traditional DeFi, and then there's the DeFi that we want to do. In the traditional DeFi, there's perpetual contracts, right? That's the obvious competition with any hedge. Mhm. So, yeah, doing like upgrading any hedge to do perpetuals, to do options, any kind of basic financial contracts are just super obvious things to try out. But, beyond that, yes, there's just an unlimited number of of things to try and and experiment with. Like you said, vaults, um, fundraising, like fundme.cash could be much more sophisticated.

[00:24:52]Uh, it's just a lot of things to try. Yes, and as the BSC industry really starts to grow, I know it's something you and I have discussed many times, this concept of mercenaries versus missionaries. You can get people in it for the mission, and they tend to last, they tend to be a bit more durable, but on the other hand, they take a little while to get going, and they're also harder to recruit because you need people who are well aligned, people who are well educated, people who are willing to push through quite a lot of difficulty. And then you have the mercenaries who are there for a buck, and they're good while the getting's good, and then they're out when it's not. So, given that that is likely to be maybe the direction that we're going to see BCH heading, it's going to keep attracting missionaries, but perhaps the mercenary forces are going to arrive. I wondered if you have any thoughts about that for the community as it is now to be prepared for that kind of inflow of new talent and interests.

[00:25:49]>> I'm super excited about the day that there's enough money washing around in the BCH ecosystem to start hiring mercenaries. It's very exciting. The danger is not understanding when someone is a mercenary and putting them in a position of influence and control when they really don't have any business being there. Which is When everything is very large, that's not really, you know, whatever.

[00:26:14]All kinds of things will happen, but when you're still very small and you have to make the right decisions, and you have to to to keep growing very carefully, that's very dangerous to put a mercenary in a in a position of influence and control. So, that's the only worry for me, but um as far as mercenaries go, I I love them. Uh they're also known as employees.

[00:26:34]I think so.

[00:26:35]I have I have a few myself, so yes, it's great to have people that that are, you know, just there to do a job, and they're very good at the job that they do, and uh they say, "What should I do?"

[00:26:45]And you tell them, "I really want you to work on this." And they say, "Okay." And some of them will be, "Oh, this is really interesting." And some of them will become personally interested in and some never will and that's totally fine.

[00:26:56]This is the way things are. So we're here at Bliss for the Layla upgrade that is coming in and that's largely the result of the previous 12 months of work. So we now get the chance to look ahead to a potential 2027 upgrade.

[00:27:10]>> It's already going on. You know it is.

[00:27:13]>> Exactly. People are >> the great thing about the chip processes, right? Things already moving ahead 1 2 3 years ahead of time. Yes. Yes, we're on a rolling train of momentum there and the biggest and most prominent topic for that at the moment is the 1-minute blocks block time reduction proposal.

[00:27:34]I wondered if you had a take on that.

[00:27:35]How are you feeling either from your own perspective or the ecosystem's perspective in terms of that being a viable option potentially in 12 months' time. Sure. Um This is one of my favorite things about There's a guy who's strongly involved in 1-minute blocks. His name is BCA, Bitcoin Cash All This. And I I That guy has something special, right? So he'll just be interested in something and he's off doing whatever and he's like researching stuff. And then when he gets interested and he's like, "Hey, wait. This is important and this needs to get done."

[00:28:12]He doesn't let go. And that thing gets researched to death and he will investigate every aspect of whatever it is that he's working on to the nth degree. And not only that, but he's one of the few people that I have met in BCH ecosystem who can do that and at the same time take what other people are saying. And you know, people are like, "Oh, this crazy. This is stupid idea. This is a terrible. Oh, it's the best thing in the world." And he can take all those and then he puts them together and he says, "Okay, you're worried about this?

[00:28:45]You're dumb. I don't need to worry about that. Oh, you're worried about this?

[00:28:47]Okay, yeah, that's actually a valid point. And he'll say, "Okay, this needs to be explored more." And he will go and explore all of that stuff. So, it's really hard to talk about 1-minute blocks without talking about him.

[00:28:58]Because if he weren't there, I would say, "No, absolutely not. There's no chance." Not because it's necessarily a bad idea or necessarily a good idea, but just that as we know the chip process, it takes a huge amount of due diligence for even something that seems very simple. And he does that due diligence.

[00:29:15]And so, because of him, I think it's a it's a real possibility. And the more I've read from his research, and I've read all his papers and given him some feedback on it, I kind of start to think yeah, may- maybe so.

[00:29:28]It doesn't seem like that bad of an idea. And I'm also privy to the content of one of the presentations that's going to happen at the conference, which double double uh Explains, emphasizes?

[00:29:43]>> Yeah, just just doubles the strength of my uh my feeling that yeah, probably something is going to happen. Because one of the risks of doing one change is that it cuts off avenues of other changes. And that can be extremely dangerous. If you haven't done your due diligence and figured out, "If we do this, what can we not do?"

[00:30:02]And when you're talking about scaling, if you do anything that cuts off important avenues of future scaling, you have made a terrible, terrible mistake.

[00:30:12]We have to scale to millions and billions of people.

[00:30:15]And so, there were some particular things that I wanted to be sure will also work with faster blocks. And the result I should I'm going to shut up. Okay. All right. [laughter] We'll talk more after this uh after these talks are out and and people can reflect on that.

[00:30:33]>> because yeah, I don't want to I don't want to blow the the presentation, but yeah, the the more I read about it, the more I think it's plausible. Okay. And last question, this is obviously the topics and the ideas, the themes that I have been excited to talk about at Bliss. Is there anything you are particularly excited to talk about with people at Bliss? Any particular theme you had in mind or anything you wanted to get some sentiment on that you think Bliss is the place to find out about?

[00:31:01]Our whole team as Aaron knows to the grindstone on XO for a long time now.

[00:31:06]And so actually in the past I had a handle on pretty much everything that was happening in BCH. Not personally, right? But I knew I had a concept at least or detailed knowledge of the people, the things that they were doing, what I thought was a good idea, what I thought might go somewhere, what I thought needed some extra help or funding or whatever.

[00:31:28]That's all gone, right? Because I've been focusing on other things and the number of people involved has just grown so much and the number of projects that are going on has grown so much. So yeah, I'm going to stay at the stage where I'm like, I want to catch up and find out what's going on in BCH cuz I've been over here in our in our cave working on XO. So that's actually the the thing I'm most interested in. Of course, one is to talk about XO, talk about XO with with everybody.

[00:31:55]See what everybody's working on.

[00:31:57]Yeah, just just catching up kind of.

[00:31:59]All right. Well, I guess we'll let you get back to it. Thank you for coming on.

[00:32:03]Bliss backstage.

[00:32:04]>> Thank you very much.

[00:32:06]All right.

[00:32:07]Talk soon.