Nigeria's debt sustainability is critically threatened because debt service consumes 90-144% of government revenues, meaning the country must borrow to repay debt, creating a debt trap. The fundamental problem is not insufficient revenue but excessive spending, as Nigeria collects 7.44 trillion naira but still faces a 2.24 trillion naira shortfall. Oil output of 1.46 million barrels per day is below the 2 million barrels needed to meet budget requirements, and the expensive euro bonds (18 billion owed, 2.5 billion in annual servicing) drain resources from productive investments. Without cutting spending and addressing commercial debts, Nigeria risks entering a debt trap similar to the 1990s crisis.
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Is Nigeria's debt sustainable? is Nigeria sliding into a debt trap?Added:
Hey, hey, hey.
Hey folks, um good evening. Welcome to another Money Space with me, Kaloo Aa.
Of course, on this space every week, 700 p p.m. West African time, we're talking money, the economy, and finance. This week we're on the economy and we have such a great topic to talk to you about which of course if you're Nigerian uh you're an investor, you're a taxpayer, it's going to be an issue that you want to pay attention to. Right? So we're asking the question is Nigeria's debt sustainable? Right? Lots of commentary in the past week about the Nigeria's debt, Nigeria's borrowing and all that.
Lots of committers are asking, can we really in Nigeria pay down all this debt? Is the debt good? You know, is are we borrowing for the right things? You know, what is the what is the real issue? That's what we want to get into uh this evening when we talk around this topic. And again, you know, what we do here is to give you the facts, uh give you the real uh information so you can be better informed when you're having discussions with either policy makers or you just just want to invest. You know what's happening and you know why this issues are going to be a problem for your balance sheet or for your investment portfolio, right? Because this is a major thing. So, we want to just do a deep dive of course into this and then see what we come up with.
Again, guys, just request to speak. I don't want to monopolize uh the space.
Just going to do a quick 10 minutes in intro give you the data then that way you guys can come back with with those questions are just fantastic. Again we are on YouTube and we are also on Twitter. When I mean we are on that means we're trying to share uh these slides that we then have right. So if you go to YouTube and you go to Twitter, you do see um the slides that we share.
There are visually it's it's great for you to follow visually because that way you can see these numbers, you can see the interplay of what we're talking and watch basically um when you see it's easier for you to ask questions and of course to understand uh better. So if you want to follow just I'm going to be sharing the tweets under the the space link. I'm just going to share the first one here but of course if you hop into YouTube I did share the handle just my name Ku A you find it you would find most of the visuals. So either one that you're comfortable with just hang with us. Let's do 10 minutes and then I'll hand the space back to you folks to ask your questions. Let's have a deep deep deep conversation about this. Right. So, first things first, we're just going to talk around the Nigerian macroeconomic indicators. I updated this for May 2026.
And the key differences here, we've been trying to do this almost every month, right? The key difference here from what we did in April is going to be the inflation rate and the monetary policy rate. So, those two have changed. The Nigerian inflation rate has gone up, right? Has gone up. uh the also the monetary policy rate has gone up. What's the inflation rate? Just basically means that prices of goods in Nigeria are going up but at a slower rate in this case at a faster rate about 15.38%.
Why? Really the war in Iran has driven up energy costs PMS diesel cost have gone up and those costs are a key driver that is now driving food and other things that have cost um cost of goods to go up in Nigeria. So the inflation rate is up. In response to that, the monetary policies is actually supposed to come down, right? But the the central bank of Nigeria actually caught it's actually supposed to go up when inflation goes up. But the central bank is basically saying that this rise is not really monitoring. It's like it's because of an event, the war in Iran. So they're not really taking that rise in deflation into account so much. So they've reduced their monetary policy rate to 26.5. What that means for you is that if you want to borrow, if you want to borrow in Nigeria, you are going to borrow from 26.5%.
That's what the banks borrow from the CBN. So the banks will not lend to you lower than they would borrow or they will discount from the CBN. That's essentially what uh that means for you um as a Nigerian. uh exchange rate has been very very stable. If you notice uh we've we've even gotten more funds like I always say the the only issue with the exchange rate is that the money is coming in uh via foreign portfolio investments. Apart from that exchange rate FX FX reserve has been very very um so we could say consistent and stable which is a big big plus for Nigeria. GDP growth rate uh it's there. We should be doing give or take much much more than 4%. Much much more. Ben, Togo, all these guys are doing much much more. Niger should be doing a lot better. Oil output is the key red flag, guys. We're at 1.46 million barrels a day. That's not up to OPEC. That's not up to the budget. If we don't sell oil, we don't get FX. It would affect our export. It will affect our exchange rate. It will affect the inflation rate to affect the GDP growth rate. So the one thing you have to watch always is going to be that oil out output. It's not the price per se that we sell crude oil or crude oil is quoted outside the country is the volume we're able to sell from our reserves. Right? So if we don't sell minimum 2 million barrels a day, we're going to have serious issues with our budget and that's why we are borrowing which is why this topic is very very important. So those numbers um I would say I would give it a C just because we're not doing a lot on the oil output and of course rates are 26%. If rates are 26% there's no way the small and medium enterprises can borrow and survive. What are you going to borrow on 26% on? So that's a big big problem uh there. But let's move on to uh to the other slides that we want to just maybe dwell on. Uh this is talking about now the borrowing. This is asat December 2025. This is the latest from the debt management office. So the Nigeria's total debt total debt that we that we owe i.e. this just the external. I'm focusing on the external because that's in dollar. We can print naira and cover local debt. Yes, there will be inflation but we can do that right. It's not a good idea but we can print naira. We can't print dollars. So when we talk about external debt, that is where the the pain and the risk is. Now the total external debt is about 51 billion United States dollars. 51 billion United States dollars. The cost of servicing that debt of servicing that debt last year was about 5.15 billion. So if you do a back of the envelope analysis, we spent about 10%, not the interest rate now, but just taking the total um foreign debt and the total debt servicing. It's about 10% Nigeria is paying to service this debt.
Again, this is just to service. This is not to pay back, just to service. If you again look at the who we are lending money from, multi multilateral is going to be your your World Bank folks.
Bilateral is going to be like you're borrowing from China or from Germany and of course the commercial euro bonds and you're borrowing from Wall Street. The problem with Nigeria's borrowing guys is the euro bonds borrow is the euro bonds.
Why is it a problem? That's the expensive debt. You know the world bank debt is the one that we see a lot of. If you go to the news we were just borrowing about 1 billion or so and that caused a lot of issues last week.
Nigerians went on that um on that channel, the World Bank Instagram page and were asking the World Bank not to lend to Nigeria again. Too bad that World Bank has to shut down the comment section. That's the one you hear about.
But those World Bank loans are actually quite cheap in terms of their interest cost to Nigeria. They in dollars, but they actually quite cheap. My own issue with those World Bank debts is what we are borrowing money from. If you do a deep dive on what we're borrowing for, you see things like reforms as part of what they giving Nigeria money for. I don't think Nigeria should be borrowing for quote unquote reforms, right? We should be borrowing for infrastructure to build things to that generate wealth in the future. I don't think whatever the reforms mean, right? I don't think we should be borrowing for that. We sell crude oil, we sell cocoa, we have taxes, take the money from those and do reforms, but borrow externally in dollars to then build the ports, the rails, those kind of things. That's just my view. But if you look at the euro bonds, right, we owe about 18 billion.
We paid 2 billion, 2.5 to service that 18 billion. The the multi the the World Bank debt, we owe about 23 billion, but we only paid about maybe two billion. But World Bank we owe 18.
We pay about 2.5. So the the Euro the Euro bond debt is the most expensive, right? And it's Wall Street. It's commercial. So that's the problem.
That's where that's what takes a lot of our debt servicing out of um out of the oil sales that we make. So if you want to really have a good good analysis or a good Google good solution to a debt problem in Nigeria, you've got to do a bit of asset sales and address this commercial euro bonds. If you can get rid of Euro bonds, the debt becomes very very manageable in terms of servicing.
The number might still be up, but the servicing cost will come down uh considerably. But the point is of this slide to show you that the real issue really is the euro bonds. We've got to find a way to pay down those commercial debts because they are really really high. Right? Okay, let's go on to the next slide and see what we have. Right now I want to now start going into the specifics. Right. And what I try to do with this slide was to pick 2025. So this is quarter 3 2025 oil revenue shortfall. Again this is the latest quarter 3 2025. We don't have any 20256 numbers but this is the latest from the federal government of Nigeria budget office. So if you look at this right again remember what I told you Nigeria's foreign reserves foreign exchange earnings all depend on crude oil sales you hear cocoa you hear cashew there really nothing we don't make a lot from non oil that is foreign reserves don't confuse that with revenues when Nigeria makes revenues Nigeria makes more revenues from non oil but FX reserves we make our bulk of our FX sales FX reserves from crude oil. It's not even close. We're talking about maybe 88% and then the rest is non- oil. And even in that non oil, we're counting things like dangote fertilizer that uses ura which is gas. We're counting LM prochemical.
So even in that non oil that you see, we're counting prochemicals as non oil. So if you take away the petrochemicals is is down like 5%. So what were the numbers as that Q3 2025 huge shortfall 2.8 trillion. So Nigeria was supposed to budget about get about 5 trillion. Uh when we sold crude oil and gas we got only about 2.45 trillion. Now why is this important? If we are getting a shortfall when we sell crude oil, it definitely means we've got to cover that debt because that debt means or that revenue is what goes to salaries is what goes to debt service is what goes to bill roads. So we have to go borrow. So every time there's a shortfall, Nigeria has got to go and borrow. And as at as as at quarter 3 2025, Nigeria had a shortfall of about 2 uh.8 8 trillion.
That tells you that Nigeria of course had to go borrow from somewhere. So when you see this World Bank borrowings, you see Euro Bank borrowings, this is why we are borrowing. But the question is that why is there a shortfall? Is the shortfall because we're not making revenues? No, we're making 2.45 trillion.
That's a lot of money. The problem is that we are spending too much or we have told oursel that we can make much much more. We said we're going to make 5 trillion. Was that realistic?
5 trillion as at 2025 meant we had to sell oil at about 86 and that's about 2.1 million barrels a day. So was that realistic for Nigeria last year to have said we want to sell 2 million barrels when we're selling about 1.4 4 1.3 in 2023. That's the problem. We project very very generous revenues and we never hit them. But we are projecting those revenues because we want to go and borrow money. So we're making 2.45 trillion. That's a lot of money. The the shortfall in my mind is not as important because if we simply cut down the spending and then cut our quote around the 2.45, four five years we'd borrow but we wouldn't have to borrow the whole 5 trillion but because we have a lot of of expenditure planned then this shortfall has got to be financed there's no problem with shortfalls the problem is that the shortfall has got to be financed why can't we just simply say oh we don't have money because we don't have money we're not going to spend money we're not going to maybe build a new conference center we're not going to go abroad for training we're not going to buy new su Why don't we say that? Why must we finance the shortfall? That's the problem in Nigeria that we're financing whatever shortfall, which means we then have to go to the Euro bonds. We have to go to the World Bank.
We have to go to a domestic bond market.
That is the problem in Nigeria. Not the revenues. Like I always say, the spending is simply too much. Cut down the spending and you start to have a hold on this borrowing. The next slide is going to talk about this year. Yeah, this is last year, right? Let's talk around what we are doing in 2026. I saw this report in the punch.
They were quoting the Nigerian revenue service report that was submitted to FAC. It's not yet out, but I'm seeing in the papers they are quoting where they got it from and this is the numbers that they presented. So, the actual revenues collected was about 7 trillion. Guys, are you hearing what I'm what I'm showing you? This is one quarter. Last quarter I just show you this slide for last quarter. Last quarter Niger collected from oil 2.45. This year alone just this year this quarter quarter one from all the resources oil VAT and all that. Niger's making about 7.44 trillion everything in 7.44. Still there's a shortfall. So we're at about 76% of target 2.24 trillion shortfall.
So again, go back to my argument. This shortfall that we are making, should we finance it? Should we simply say it's a shortfall? We didn't make this money.
Hence, we're going to go back to the budget and say we're going to cut things out of the budget to take this away from the budget so we don't have to go borrow 2.24 trillion to augment the revenues that not come in. That should be the way households behave. Just like you guys on this piece, if you want to spend a,000 naira, you only make 500 NRA. What do you do? You cut down your spending. It's it's foolish to go borrow for consumption, right? You can borrow for expenses like food because you have to eat. Maybe you want to pay your rent.
Okay. But to go borrow to go on a holiday is crazy, right? But Nigeria isn't following that simple advice. Why should we finance the shortfall when we can simply say, well, we don't have the money. Let's can let's put a can on it or let's put a lid on that and say we're going to come back to this spending when we get money because 7.44 trillion boys and girls is a lot of money and with 7 trill 7 trillion is more than the annual budget of many West African states. You can say that population is lower but that's the point. We have a high population and that high population is giving us a lot of VAT company income tax um firs pay tax. We're getting all these revenues in. So why are we then still spending the issue is not the revenues again is that we're trying to finance this because this the takeaway is that the revenue shortfall puts pressure on borrowing and debt service in 2026. If we made 7 trillion stop there and say okay that's what we could do. So, we're going to cut down foreign training training Nigeria. We're going to we're going to we're not going to buy any SUV.
The president's jet we're going to only fly maybe once a quarter. Something like that. You get the point I'm making. We don't have to finance the debt. And if we keep financing the debt, that's why the borrowing keeps on going up and up and up. That's why you keep on seeing Niger going to the World Bank. That's going to is looking at the IMF. You keep on hearing all these rumors because we're trying to finance the shortfall.
Why haven't we cut spending? That's the question. Why haven't we cut spending?
All right. So in next slide again we're looking at now the total picture and we're trying to ask ourel just look at the total picture. What is this actually saying? Because people are saying hey if you talk to the government guys they will tell you well ko we are borrowing but our debt to GDP is very very low. That's what they tell you. Our debt to GDP is very very low.
That's a a red flag. Sorry that's a red flag. That's a a diversionary number.
They're trying to give you a number that will divert your attention. Debt to GDP is in my mind though in my mind it's it's difficult to argue what we are quoting it for. Debt GDP does not pay back debt. Revenues pay back debt. Yes, you want to know your debt to GDP to understand what it is that you are doing in the economy. Visa based what is the proportion of debt to the total output of the economy. That is fantastic. So if you compare Nigeria's debt to Nigeria's GDP, it's very very low. We're at about 32 to 35 which is very very low. Let me give you a numbers. The US is above 100 100%. Japan is nearly approaching 200.
So debt to GDP Nigeria is doing very very well because we're at about maximum 35%. Which means the total output and our debt our output is just the debt is just about 32% of our output. Fantastic.
Kudos to us. But again guys remember what I said we can't go to Euro bonds and tell the Euro bond guys which is Wall Street. We can't go and tell them that we want to repay you with GDP. We have to repay them with United States dollars. And that's where the problem comes. Now look at the numbers again. If you look at Nigeria's debt service to revenues again if you're following on Twitter I'm sharing the slides. If you're on YouTube, I'm sure that as well. If you look at the total debt service to revenues as per the budget, as per the budget, already we're at 48%.
So this is not what we are. This is just as per the budget. Oh, just that that just what the budget said, we are already at 48%. Already half of the so what this means is that half of the revenues Nigeria is making is going to debt service already this is without us spending any money this what we had in the budget that half will go to go to to go to pay the um debt but what's the actual the actual today is about if you look at the quarter one which is what we by punch quoting the Nigerian revenue service it's about 90%.
So they are saying that if you Nigeria ear ends 100 naira 90 naira is going to debt service not salaries not construction not anything debt service so we earn 100 naira 90 naira is going towards debt service and and I'm being generous the numbers are from 90 to 144% I did my analysis right and when you get to 144% you are taking to account the shortfall of revenues remember that we only have quarter one numbers. If you start to look at where we're in April, start to now look at the breakdown and say, okay, VAT has done this, PAT has done this, you are trying to go above 90. That's why we are borrowing. We are borrowing because the bulk of the revenues. We're making record revenues, guys. 7.7 trillion record. Lots of money come to Nigeria. But we are taking this money to repay debt. You know before in the past there was an argument that we are taking our revenues to pay salaries.
Remember they say we we are borrowing to pay salary. People who argue oh it's a bad idea it's a good idea to pay salaries. Now we've even left that level. We've moved up. We're now borrowing to repay debt. So if you borrowed before we are borrowing to refinance that debt. The numbers are there. If your budget is already saying that 48% of your projected revenues will go to pay debt service, this is what your budget has said. You already seeing that before you you blow the whistle, 48 naira out of 800 is going to pay debt.
Now you now have about 90% because I showed you the earlier slides, we're at about 2.45 trillion lower on oil sales even 7.7 trillion will be at 9 trillion.
So we're making money but we are spending this money to service the debt.
So very limited space for infrastructure for health and for education. That's why we're having the space today. The debt sustainability is is triging is flashing red. Now if you if you are following the news right globally you would have read that uh that Iran and the US are at the final stages right now of agreeing a peace deal right. What does that mean?
If there's peace in the in Iran, right, what happens to the streets of Hamus?
That's part of what they are agreeing today that oil is going to flow out of the straits of Homus. On Friday, the stock market in America already reacted to this news. The stock market went to the all-time high. Oil prices start to come down. By Monday, you're going to see a huge crash in the price of crude oil. And the futures market, you see it from Monday. There's no work on Monday in the US. So from Tuesday you're going to see a huge fall in the markets. Oil price going to crash. Stocks are going to go up. Why? Because there's peace in Iran. So Nigeria had about maybe 3 months to have sold lots of crude oil at 100 or something dollars on Brent crude.
We didn't do it. Now oil prices are coming down. We are still at 1.4 below 1.5 million barrels a day. What that means is that the borrowing that we're going to have to do, we didn't take advantage of that high in oil price to get excess revenues and pay down the debt. We didn't, right? And now oil price going to start to come down.
That's why this space is shrinking. The the room for mana for Nigeria is sort of shrinking because we're not taking advantage of the goodness that God has given to us. If anything happens to oil prices and it starts to go down from is about 100, starts to go back down to 70 to 60, we're in trouble. We're in big trouble because now we can survive because we are making money from oil, right? So that oil is giving us excess revenues higher than what the budget says. So this 48% is the budget target.
We have already even with this 48% we did lower than target. Now imagine oil prices going down and we're still going to do lower than target. So huge issue.
We can't run away from it. What if there's now peace in Ukraine, then oil goes all the way to 50. Then what do we do? We have all this debt that we've taken in dollars. Remember I told you the problem is the euro bonds. It's in dollars. We can't print Naira. It's a bad strategy, but we can print NRA and pay local debt. We can't print dollars.
That's a big problem, guys. All right, guys. A few slides left. And again, if you want to speak, just have to request now. So once I'm done just add you on and then we can have a discussion around if you agree with me that there's a debt sustainability issue. And let me show you this chart right this is quarter 3 2025.
The total revenues that Nigeria made from crude oil in quarter 3 2025 and usually in all quarters in all quarters of recent cannot service the debt that Nigeria has taken. Let me say it again. the total revenues that Nigeria made from crude oil. In this case, we're looking at just a quarter 325, which is the latest numbers we have out from the budget office in Nigeria. Those numbers that we got from crude oil cannot service Nigeria's debt. So at the 1.4, let's give Nigeria 1.5 million barrels a day.
What we are telling you is that that number that we got from that crude oil, not cocoa, not cashew, cannot pay back Wall Street. So if Wall Street said, "Okay, we're going to take 100% of your crude oil revenues." 100%. We can't pay back the debt. This is as 2025 quarter 3. Again, I'm quoting that because that's the latest numbers we have. We have to go with the latest months that we have. So guys, you see the problem.
The latest numbers are telling us that we cannot even pay our debt with crude oil. If we say, "Okay, let's make money from cocoa. Let's go back to the farms, sell cocoa, sell cashew, survive on that, and pay back quality." we still can't. So, is this a debt trap? Is this what we were in the 19 in the 1990s where we were making money but we couldn't pay back our debt. So, we're just servicing the debt and then the principal just kept on growing. That's where we have to ask ourel this question and the numbers say we might be there.
The numbers say we might be there when we cannot service our debt with oil revenues. Then guys, that's red flashing light right there. almost done. I've got one or two slides. Then we'll get I see Tony I got Jay. We'll get you guys in to give us your concerns. Now I like this chart because this chart is taking us all the way from 2010. This chart is from the Nigerian economic summit group Nigerian economic summit group and what they've done here is a very is a great great chart. They've done the domestic debt GDP, external debt GDP, the debt service, and again the debt service to revenues. But what they've done, they've done it for from 2010, from 2010 to 2024. So that you can just see visually.
Look at the last line there, debt service to revenues. Go there just on a visual level. You can just look at the way the the chart has changed from green to red. If you're on Twitter, I'm sharing it right now. Just give me a second. How it has changed from green to red. In 2010, Nigeria's total debt to revenues was 12.3, which means that any if Nigeria sold crude, if Nigeria got 100 naira in revenues, right? We were able to sell we only used 12 naira to service the debt. So we got 100 naira, we only used 12 naira to service that debt. Now if you look at that same number in 2024, if Nigeria sold 100 naira, we had to borrow 16 naira to repay this to service the debt. Let me say it again. When we sell a 100, it's not enough. We have to go and borrow 16 to add to that 100 to service the debt.
Like I said, we are borrowing to repay debt. Forget salaries who are borrowing to be paid. And this is just if you just look at the chart, it just gives you visually. You don't have to be an accountant to understand this chart.
It's just from green to red. We've gone from 12 to 15 to 21 to 28. From 2015, that's when the madness just started.
You see 28, 33, 43, 54. Then from 2020, all hell broke loose. 86, 82, 106.
By 2023 we are at 142. So we when we sell 100 naira we go and borrow 42 naira to add to a new 100 naira and repay debt. The one we sold is not enough. We have to go and borrow 42 naira to add just to repay debt. Not to just to repay debt. Massive guys. We can't run away from this. You can't hide from this because we all this debt is going to be paid. Who pays debt? It's not the government. is the people that pay debt are the taxpayers. When you increase loans and you increase taxes, the same effect, there's no difference.
Increasing loans and increasing taxes.
All right, just let's do the last slide and we'll get our audience to speak. Why is this important for you guys? In every way you look at this, if you look at the households, look atmemes, look at the investors, they are all going to suffer this. If you're a household, this is going to cost you higher inflation and a higher cost of living. was poor public services because there's no money to do roads. If you are borrowing to repay debt, there is no money to do roads. I heard your question also how we doing the coastal road. We are borrowing that to do it as well. Everything in Nigeria you see today is on borrowed funds.
There is no net revenue. Nigeria does not make net revenues. No matter what you read in the papers, what they say customs has made has beaten their target. That is still a deficit to the spending. It's not a deficit to the target. It's a deficit to spending.
Today, I read it. Customs has made two so billion. It is 10% of their target last year. It doesn't mean anything. It means that that money they've made is still a deficit to target. Crazy, right?
If you're anme is very very high interest rate you cannot borrow at 26% for any serious business and it's unless you selling I don't know but how can you borrow at 26% and say you're doing a small business you're not Dangote refinery you're a small and medium enterprise so how can you borrow at 26% if you're an investor of course they're crowding you out let me give you a good example last week the government want to sell the numbers escape me so I don't want to quote numbers when you see the government selling treasury bills and investors rushing to buy them it's not the flex what is good is that investors are saying that we don't see any opportunities outside the the the government so we are prepared to give the government our money to invest for us so we are prepared to take the 15% government will give us than going to invest in a farm So it's a negative effect that the private sector is saying we are prepared to give the government more money than the private sector. When you see that happen in the economy is a bad sign. It shows that the investors do not trust the economy to invest money to create jobs. If you had a million naira today you can do pure water, you can do chicken and sew and sell. You can maybe open gas station. You can do many things. But if you feel that the cost of doing those things are so much then you will take your money and go to a bank and say bank here's my money pay me interest. You are going to get a guaranteed rate of return but the economy is soften because you're not creating jobs for people to then work.
How many people can work in a bank?
Banks are less than 5% contribution GDP.
Farming is 20% contribution GDP. So if you have more people farming, there's a higher impute. But loans don't go to farms. Loans go to oil and gas. That's the problem with Nigeria. The sectors that employ more people are not growing.
Agriculture is not growing. Trade is not growing. The sectors that are very very vibrant, banking, are very very small contributors GDP. Very very tiny. So you see lots of banks but they have a very very small contribution. You see farms everywhere. They have a large contribution to the economy but there's no credit going there. There's unemployment there. There's no growth in farming. That's why the economy is stagnated.
Last slide guys. Last slide then we're going to call out people. Just to emphasize the point I made about the crowding out. I looked at the numbers exactly. Net credit to the government is is higher as at again as at 2025 quarter 3 which is latest report the net credit to the government is about it's up 1.81%. So whatever the target was the target was 23 trillion is going up to 24 trillion but the credit to the private sector the target was 76 trillion is down to 72 trillion. So the banks are lending more money to the government whilst cutting credit to the private sector. Why? The banks are not fools.
The banks have shareholders monies. They do not believe thatmemes are viable and can make money. So they want to lend money to the government. I shared a tweet the other day. I said if you're a banker, they borrow at 3 at 10%, give to the government at 20%, they go home. That's not banking. But you can't blame anybody. That's how the economy is set up. If you give to the government, you are getting risk-free risk-free return. The risk-free rate should not be high to encourage savings.
The purpose of credit is to go and grow the economy. If you make risk-free too high, then investors will go and invest.
Look at that's why you have to clap for Dangot every time you see him. If Dangote had taken 20 billion dollars and given to a bank he would be a trillionaire today with no risk with no risk but he has invested in a refinery he's creating jobs he's doing this doing that he's taking a huge risk huge risk and that's a problem all right folks let we've done a lot let's get the folks to to hop in here and give their comments uh Tony hi you've heard my you've seen my chat you've seen my slides uh what jumps at you Tony Um, good evening everyone. Can you hear me?
>> I can hear you sir. Tony, I can hear you. Yeah.
>> Great. Um, so what I want to talk about is from what you've said, you said um, if we do not cut our spending as a nation.
>> Yeah.
people do not practice austerity because personally I've also read about some countries that came out of economic quagmire and one of the strong points I I I got from some of my research is that a lot of those countries their government cut spending >> and as the government cut spending there was more money for the productive economy there was more money for other things to Now Nigeria the Nigeria spectrum we have been we have seen um we have seen how government has handled funds over and over and over and we keep preaching I mean I follow you on Twitter I see you post on these things every day >> but the all the leakages nobody is blocking the leakages >> they still spend recklessly quote unquote >> um governments are always making trips to Abuja, making trips here, making trips there. All those little trips here and there >> is amounting to big large sums of money.
I remember I saw I think was punch I can't remember which of the news channels they made a news that in a short quarter they said 20 something governors spent how many billion on just trips alone?
>> Yeah. Yeah. That's that's the waste we're talking about. Yeah.
So now the question now is this is going on year in year out at some point don't you think that the country will just snap and reach breaking point and I don't know >> yeah that's what I'm saying bro that's what I'm saying have we not already snapped look look at the the slide I shared about quarter 3 2025 where you have the oil revenues cannot cover debt service what else is a snapping what other snapping are you looking for because One thing Nigeria has had for itself, right, is that we have crude oil. So when we're in trouble, there's this crude oil and gas revenues that come in dollars. So look at look at the Iran war, oil has gone from $60 to more than 120. But now we are saying that even if you bring that oil in again quoting quarter 325 numbers, right?
Someone's going to say we make more revenues from from oil. Yes, but the expenditures have also gone up this year as well. The problem sat is this right?
When we get we increase our cost and we never take them down. When we increase salaries and paychecks we never reduce them when oil price goes down. So what we then have to do is that when oil price goes down that gap that we see we always finance it. We never fire anybody. The last time Nigeria did a reorganization of the public service was under a passenger. Remember when they they asked the guys in Abuja to leave you know they are buying houses and all that that's the last time Nigeria has done a regression of the federal civil service in America look at what Mr. Trump is doing. They're cutting down the federal government. Why? They're doing whether it's successful or not. There's a realization that they have to cut down spending. But here there's no there's no talk here in the last budget. Remember it was street lights. Lots of street lights in a in an economy where we are borrowing to do. So we are borrowing to do street lights which are not even done.
>> Okay. So sorry the next I wanted to talk about was this borrowing of money.
>> Yeah.
>> Now um sometimes whenever I hear the amount of money that not just Nigeria borrows other countries borrow >> when this money is that this money doesn't because it looks as if whenever request from funds they always I remember last week I think the president there was news that the president wants to take 1.2 2 billion from is it World Bank?
>> World Bank.
>> Nigerians flooded >> their social media.
>> Yeah.
>> Saying that they shouldn't give us the money.
>> Yes.
>> Now, as embarrassing and funny as that is, Nigerians are justified for doing that because >> I agree.
>> On the lower scale in Nigeria, most people are just trying to survive.
Most people most people don't have decent life. Now what they're trying to survive just trying to ensure that they're able to feed maybe twice a day.
They're able to pay their rent wherever they are and they're able to try do some little little things for themselves and they okay.
>> Yeah.
>> And they okay. So now this borrowing that we keep borrowing and it keeps compounding.
What happens? because the way we are behaving it looks as if the hope of paying back this point is >> so so I want to ask you what what's your question so I can >> okay now the question now is are we going to be able to pay these funds later in the future because a lot of people are always complaining it's our children our children's children that will pay pay this borrowed money >> the only way we're going to pay this money back if you ask me in my opinion that we're going to have to sell something. Either we're going to have to sell LNG or we're going to sell NPC or we're going to sell Farland in Nigeria to someone to pay this money back. How do you pay back 18 billion? How do you pay how do you pay back 50 51 billion?
It's not due today. It's not due today.
But the >> Yeah, but the only way you are going to pay back money is to sell things, right?
That's the only way you're going to pay this money back. Remember when was the last last Nigeria paid down his debt that was not a passenger uh when we had the the debt buyback and that debt buyback we paid 12 in cash then we bought back debt so it's not as if we went and we paid the whole debt down to 100%. They had a deal we bought back our debt at a discount we paid back some and that was how the whole deal was packed.
I don't know how you pay back 50 billion unless you grow the economy maybe 10 times. So economy today is about maybe 300 billion. If you grow the economy 10 times, we become a $3 trillion economy.
Then you can pay back the debt via productivity gains. You can then say, "Wow, the economy is so big. We're generating so much in VA and tax. We're going to pay it back." But the economy is still at 3 trillion. How do you pay back 51 billion in debt? It's not I don't think that's why we're servicing the debt. So we reopen the debt. We just reser. That's why you see contractors in Abuja are not being paid because we're just servicing it. To pay back principal is is tough. Look at the picture above here. Principal 23 billion, principal 6 billion, principal 18 billion. How do you pay that back? What's our foreign?
Our foreign reserves are not savings.
Niger Niger doesn't own those foreign reserves. The foreign reserves are owned by the central bank of Nigeria. Not the same thing. Those are claims on Nigeria.
You can't take foreign reserves and pay back debt. It's not your money. So big point there, Tony. B. Yeah. Uh, but thanks. I appreciate the the the engagement. Jay, how you doing, Jay?
>> Jay, what's up?
>> Yeah. Jay, how are you?
>> Yeah, go for it.
>> I'm very well, thank you.
Yeah. Um when when the when the when the engineer came into the first I was I was very very skeptical because ever since like you mentioned everything has just gone towards a downward spiral.
We were doing very well like we were growing and I can remember um 2013 September 2014 I think we were like one of the you know top growing economies in Africa. We were doing things were not really I remember I was that was my first year 2013 I was wondering J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J J, your audio is very Let's have a lot of background noise behind you. A lot of background noise. You want to fix that?
>> Yeah, >> yeah, go for it.
J Jay, you want to unmute? Go ahead and unmute.
>> Okay. Sorry. Can you guys hear me now?
>> Yes, sir. I can.
>> Okay. Sorry. So, like I said, the whole started in 2015 when this, you know, these guys started and ever since then.
I could remember 2013, was it 2014?
around that time even before that we were like you know top five economy economy we're doing well things weren't you know things weren't that bad and you know things have just gone towards and if I if I I would like to use um I'm a Christian and I would like to use um a scriptural verse the Bible says that um the the the length Sorry. The borrower is to >> Yeah, >> you can't.
>> That is true.
>> There's nothing.
>> Yeah, we there's nothing wrong in borrowing.
>> What are we doing with those monies?
What are we doing with this? And when you bring you bring up points like this, they go saying, "Oh, this this that I remember when Bhari printed 40 was it 40 trillion?"
>> 22 trillion. 22 trillion.
>> Yeah, sir. 22 trillion. When like what was what was the motive behind that?
>> What was the motive behind printing that amount of money? And where did that money go?
>> He he went he went he he could he was paying fuel subsidies. So he had no money to do anything else. So he had to print his whole budget. That's what he was doing. He took the money he was earning from oil and gas and VAT to pay fuel subsidies. So you have to go to the CBN and print money to do everything else.
>> I don't even have any problem with you know borrowing but we should we should practice form of fiscal responsibility and you know use those monies in a very manner. Niger should practice.
>> I mean I I see I hear you but the point is that you know most people I want to equip you with information so that when you are talking you have data. If you can download all these slides I've shared with you they are all from the federal government. All from the federal government the numbers are crazy.
Nigerians are not don't yet understand what's happening uh to them. Like I've said, if oil prices start to come down in price from the $120 a barrel to about 50 60 70 a barrel, we're in serious trouble because what it means is that you're going to borrow more.
>> Even with the oil price, even with the oil price at 10 and something, we are posting fall in oil revenues and we're posting a fall to revenues. Nigeria is banking on the tax reforms that the tax reforms are going to bring a lot of money. What if what if they don't? There could be a next year is going to be politics 2027. Do they want to collect taxes in 2027 election year? I I I I feel that they would be careful about really going after taxes because all these tax reforms we're talking about will happen in 2027.
That's when people are going to pay their new taxes. So, I'm a bit worried about that. Yeah. But I wouldn't put anything.
>> All right.
>> All right. We'll see.
>> We shall see. We shall see. Thanks for the engagement. I appreciate you, sir.
Thank you so much. Oto.
Hey, Otto. How you doing, sir?
>> All right. I'm fine. Thank you very much, Mr. Caro.
>> Yes, sir. Welcome.
>> Yeah. Thank you very much. Yeah, I think this is a very interesting topic. But um I would like to start with the banks you talked about for example >> the banks >> recently yeah the banks are just done with their recapitalization. Yeah, >> we've seen um the banks are stronger, but I'll just say they are stronger on paper because if you come to look at the capital reserve ratio, >> yeah, >> the federal the federal government the central bank is withholding 45%.
That means for every 100% is totally dominant with the central bank. the bank just has 55% to play along with and I don't think the banks will be crazy enough to risk giving out that 55% as loan to smallcale business owners.
>> That's why you see them jumping into treasury treasury deals, bonds and so on. So there is um a negative effect from what the central bank is doing. And if that continues with the hope of us of the federal government being able to pay back these loans through tax >> when these companies can not fund their businesses through loans, >> how then will they generate profits for the federal government to be able to tax from?
>> It's already showing J. It's already showing sir. If you notice the the the 2016 quarter one was lower because they did not get monies from PAT from sorry from CIT. It's already showing what you're saying. Yeah. They didn't get monies from companies didn't pay taxes.
Yeah.
>> Yeah. Thank you. So, so, so, so like you said, which is very true, the war in Iran will soon be over. The war in Ukraine might likely follow suit.
So I think it is really a death trap.
There is something the Euro bonds, the IMF, World Bank, there's something they are not really telling us. And I believe just like people will rumors will fly around that China is taking over African countries. I believe that will be the next phase of what's going to happen.
Like you said, they might end up selling some refineries.
>> They've already sold it.
>> They might just end up doing that.
>> They've already sold it, but refineries are scrap. They're not going to get any any any revenues from dead ass crap.
Look at look I want to pick on something you you are you you are talking around when when MF you know how MF was a CBN governor I think he did a lot of damage because he he allowed Bhari to spend but but when you look at Nigeria Nigeria is a developing economy you have to fight as a central bank governor you have to fight between inflation and growth and you can't win both of them if you come tomemes and tellmemes I'm going to give you cheap loans for you to grow then you you are doing inflation but if you fight inflation you are killingme loans that's the problem in Nigeria so where do we draw which one should we tilt towards do we tilt towards fighting inflation or growth if you ask me if you ask me to you're a finance guy we should tilt towards growth >> inflation will will come but we have got to grow the economy because when we grow the economy we are fighting insecurity, we are creating jobs down the line. If we focus on only monetary fighting inflation, it's a big problem. That's where my view I I am I I get what they are doing that they're trying to fight inflation. But at the cost of not growing the economy, that's a very very risky thing for an economy in Nigeria where we have a young people that have no jobs. Everyone has a has a younger brother at home without a job. With this kind of economy, you've got to focus on job creation, um, consumption, and productivity gains more in my view more than fighting inflation. What's your take on that?
>> Yeah. Um, yeah, it's true. It's true. I rather I go with the monetary policy.
But you see, I think there is a clash.
We are in a we are in a nation where the central bank is not absolutely independent and already there's a clash between the monetary and the fiscal policy. When um the president came into power I think in 2003 and announced subsidy removal. The plan was or the yeah the idea was from the removal of subsidy Nigeria will be able to pay off some loans. Nigeria will be able to finance pro capital projects capital expenditures will improve and so on and so forth. allocation to save them. But in doing this, >> yeah, >> they said fre will be saved and so but in doing this they ended up you know um creating unnecessary expenditures. Um Mr. Well, I'm going to give you an example, some example, not on papers, you know, I I work with the state government and um you talked about training earlier. We're about to go to go for a training, but the cost of the training was so expensive.
We're going to be lodged and so on and so forth. And this man brought an idea that no, let us invite the trainer to come over. we pay um accommodation for him while we come from home and you know I'm saying but you see it was it was it was you know people kicked against it >> and the same thing is happening even at the higher places even at the federal level nobody cares how to manage resources in fact generating revenue is not Nigeria's problem but how we spend it >> and since we are not able to control our spending >> Yeah. Yeah. Since we are not able to control our spend, we will definitely run into debt. We spend things unnecessarily, things that don't yield income, things that don't generate revenue, budgets here and there. So, we are in a trap that is being orchestrated by leaders that don't care about the future of their people. America takes Yes. Like you said, yes, other countries take, but we are seeing it. When they say they going to spend trillions of dollars to to or billions of dollars for their military, we see we see it happening. We see the contract being given. It is clear it is open. But in Nigeria, we don't see it. Even when the revenues are generated, even when we take these loans to finance the so-called projects, we don't see the projects.
>> And that's and that's the >> no escaping. And that's the that's what actually I think annoys people a lot. I think if Nigerians would not care if if if the president went and borrowed $1 trillion$1 trillion and he took that one trillion and he built roads to all the state capitals built speed rails built 10 ports built 100 power plants nobody will complain. But like I said at the very beginning remember Nigeria is not making any net revenue. When you see customers making money, um, FI is making money, it is not a net revenue. We are borrowing. Look at the numbers on the budget. If Nigeria makes 100 naira on the budget, not actual, on the budget, 48 naira is going to go to debt service.
But right now, as we speak, we are doing about 90 going to debt service. You can't grow an econ a country, a company, even a household like this. All right?
Let me get I think Oh, I got I lost.
>> Thank you very much.
>> You're welcome. I lost a I'm adding you real back so you can come in and speak.
Just lost here. Go ahead. How you doing?
Aalabi ide.
Oh, Vikanto. Vikanto, how are you?
Vikanto, what's happening? While a Vikto, please go ahead.
>> Hey, hello. Good day. How are you doing?
I'm doing very well.
>> Yeah. Okay. I guess everyone can hear me, right? Clearly, right?
>> Yes.
>> Okay. So, um there's this thing I always say. Yeah. And um I think one of the easiest things to actually solve all of this is to best fight corruption, right?
Um you said one thing just now. You're like the people are not going to mind if we borrow a trillion dollars and we use it to bure refineries >> and we are seeing what this money is being used for.
>> Yeah.
>> To be very honest, I just feel we are borrowing out of selfishness.
We do not need to borrow.
We make so much revenue from oil and even taxation alone to pay up our debt and to pay up subsidies.
>> I'll give an example. Yeah. Um the total cost of subsidy and you guys can fact check it is at a range of let's say 6 trillion NRA, right? And of recent we have 200 trillion NRA missing not accounted for by NNPC.
Now 200 trillion NRA divided by 6 that could pay subsidy for almost 30 years.
So I feel the the the mistake we are making is we keep saying we in debt. How can we solve this? What's the best solution? Let's just hit the nail on the head and it's going to have a domino effect. Fight corruption.
>> Yeah.
But let's let's assume let's assume today right we cancel all corruption that 100% of the revenues we make in Nigeria not a coobo is stolen we are still going to take 48 >> sorry I think I'm done >> yeah sorry I was on me sorry about that let me see here let's assume we cancel 100% of the corruption 100% of the corruption according to the budget we are still going to spend 48 naira to service each 1 hour revenues 48 that's nearly half so again honesty is not going to solve Nigeria's problem for now it has to be a total austerity budget that word austerity we run away from it in Nigeria but we've got to go back to the basics and say strip down the budget to its DNA if it's not going to create jobs in Nigeria cancel it like I said if it's not health and human services and defense Every other thing including infrastructure should be reason on a zero budget. What will this road do in Nigeria? How many jobs will it create?
If it's not going to work, pend it. Pend it for now. Health, human services, defense. These are the only three things that we must spend money on. Every other thing we can we can wait. We don't have to go for build conferences. We don't have to build national theater. We don't have to build this or just be very very focused. We have just like how you do in your household. If you don't have money, do you pay for DSTV? No. Don't you want to watch Arsenal win the Premier League?
Yes, but you don't have money to eat.
Why are you paying for DSTV? Nigeria will borrow money for the DSTV. Borrow money for the food. You can't run a country and economy that way. So, we've got to get a bit serious with our rasa report is there. We are creating new ministries. We have ministry of agriculture. Then we have ministry of livestock. We have we have more special advisors than we have GDP growth in Nigeria. So it's we are spending too much money in the country. That's just you have a comeback.
>> Okay. Um I I I totally agree with you.
Um we need to strip the budget DNA. We need to um be very specific on what we want to do, what is going to benefit the nation.
>> I totally agree with you. But like I said, Yeah. and which um I believe history has a pattern.
>> Yeah.
>> Um majority of the time you just have to hit the nail on the head whether you like it or not. The truth is extremely bitter >> and sometimes if you try to do patchwork you end up um spoiling the whole system overall. Yeah.
>> Now the simple truth is these guys will not allow you strip the budget into pure um they won't allow you to strip the budget. They won't allow you to um audit the budget. Why? Because they want to embezzle money. Why? Because there is corruption. So like I said once corruption can be tackled to an extent because you cannot remove 100% corruption is literally almost impossible. But once it can be tackled to an extent, trust me, it's going to have a ripple effect. It's as simple as that.
>> Just want to make the point that I'm not against fighting corruption. I'm just saying that even a even if you fight corruption and the structure is wrong, right, you are not going to get the best benefit. Nigeria has something called FACK. Why do we have 36 ministers?
Because we have something called federal character.
>> So you've got to focus on the structure of Nigeria and say, okay, do we need fact? Do we need 50? If let me tell you, if somebody wins elections today, he must appointed six ministers. He might not give them a portfolio, but he must have 36 ministers. So why why so those things have tackled in also with corruption, right? You say, okay, we're going to focus on this, not only corruption, on the stealing, right? And we're also going to focus on just streamline the budget. And if you do both, I think you're going to be rather good. Yeah. Thanks. I appreciate you your comment. Aalabi, how you doing?
Aab, how are you doing? Yeah, how you doing? Doing very well.
>> Yeah, thanks for for being my to speak.
I have I mean the last time you spoke about those are radical ideas where I don't know how is ever going to come to pass in Nigeria in terms of even getting rid of that.
>> It's just 1970. It's just 1977. It's not like it's just recently that we had f recently.
>> Yeah. know it's theoretical like this but but I just want to say one I think I disagree when somebody says we don't have a revenue problem I think we do have a revenue problem but the question I have Dr. Can do we does can the budget even tell us what percentage of these loans is going into infrastructure projects and what is going into reoccurring and even debt services. Can we get that data?
>> We we can but we can but it's not dated.
We have it as not as a 2024. It's on the DMO. They will break it down for you and tell you for they will give you the project and so from the project you can determine where it's going to. Last time I looked at it about 40% was going to budget support which is salaries. So but it's not dated. It's not up to date. But again look at the numbers we're sharing.
The numbers are pretty pretty clear. If you are borrowing if you are borrowing and you can you more than your revenues to pay debt service that means you are borrowing to pay salaries debt before you even talk about infrastructure.
That's just math. If you make a $100 uh but you are spending uh 48 to pay debt service that tells you already that you are still going to borrow for debt service for salaries before you build any infrastructure in Nigeria. That's the problem. There's no re when we say Niger has a revenue problem in a you know we we know that Niger has needs more revenues. You know we know that right? But we're making the point that we are simply wasting the spending. Give you example. The vice president has a 21 billion naira house. He's not staying in 21 billion. He's not staying that house.
That's not a revenue problem. That's a spending problem. So if we capture more of this 21 billion and we take that money and we go to one school and we say we're going to fix power in that one school, that's that's what we want to do in Nigeria. And if we don't do things like that, we're not going to go anywhere in the country. We we we spend like we we are we are Qatar but we are Sudan. That's the problem with Nigeria.
We just the the the last budget has 7 trillion in added expenses. 7 trillion from National Assembly. They're called con constitual projects. And we we had the we had the former we had the current House of Reps guy for infrastructure. He was here. good guy and he explained oh it's for this it's for this those projects are how they can ensure that their constituents get uh the federal purse or federal loges but it's it's lopsided it's it's rash know you some guys want motorcycle and hairdresser in the federal budget you see money for hairdresser in a federal budget you see barber you see motorcycle k you see in a federal budget we're going to take raw raw cash and give people in a federal budget.
We're going to take raw cash and give people it's a waste. The money is wasted.
Niger if if we are paying poor people in Nigeria 25,000 naira a month you will you will see it in your village. In my village you come to my village and you pay those people in my village 25,000 every month. Ah the village will see it but it's not being paid. They maybe they pay them once in a year. So it's we have to be radical. We have to be radical about how we look at the economy the country and say where can we deploy this money to. We have 50 billion airports in a boy and the state is has the schools are not doing as well. But let me go ahead your hand is up.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Thank you very much. I just want to kind of finish I I think just to I don't think we are asking the right question economically from the government. I like what you said when you say look irrespective who is in charge of the country structurally you must you must appoint 36 ministers.
>> Yeah.
>> So so so that's my point. Are we as you know people who really care about the country and you know let us even pack politics aside.
>> Yeah.
>> I'm guessing we're not asking the right questions.
>> I mean we try the right question to say look this is the problem. How do we really solve it bipartisanly? You know because we said it now whoever is in charge now his hands are tied he must hire 36 ministers he will have special assistant or special assistant and the waste just continues.
>> But you can you can have you can have 36 ministers and not have 36 portfolios or 36 ministries. You can have 36 ministers and eight ministries. That's possible.
Not what the president is doing today.
Uh President Tunibu was a guy that was from Lagos state. He was very libertarian. who was very state power friendly. He gets to the federal office.
He control No other president has controlled national assembly like him.
No other president has controlled the courts like him. But what has he done with this power? He's pushing state police. I love it. I wish him the very best. Push it. But what about the he tried with the tax reform? You know this tax reform people are talking about. The first thing tax reform was wanted to take VAT and give it back to the states.
People forget this. It was when that was cancelled. Now they're talking about um VAT for you and I. Tobu's plan was to take 60% of VAT and give it back to the state. If you had done that with state police, suddenly states become like mini federal government and then things like facts start to sort of die down. You can't have a country that says if you want to build power plants, you build them according to federal character. Let me give you a good example. Where are the steel plants in Nigeria? We know that no country can develop that a steel plant Nigeria be. We know that any country that is a global power today has a steel plant. Where did Nigeria put a steel plant? I'll tell you. We have one in Oshobo. We have one in Jos. We have one in Katina. We have one in Delta.
We have one in Jakuta. Do you see the pattern? We are putting steel plant according to federal character. One in south south, one in southwest, one in north central, one in southwest. not according to where there's logistics or the raw materials. That's why Jakota is not working everything is federal character. You know when did the southeast get an international airport?
A region that has got Aba largest clust of SM in in Nigeria has got to Navy largest auto clusters in Nigeria got on largest open air marks Nigeria when did they get international airport 2013 so when you say these things they you can't run an economy that wants to get to a trillion with a national grid.
Remember when Tinubu was the governor of Lagos state he brought a badge from from Enron put the barge near Lagos what happened government says no you can't sell part Lagos you must sell part to Nigeria what's Tinu's business with Nigeria he's the governor of Lagos so if you don't if you don't kill FAC you can't grow as a country if you don't kill the the re the consu revenue fund you can't grow as a country Lagos can't make money from VAT because they fixing their roads building hotels building deep sea port and take that money and share to Abia it's not going to work just be lazy I'll just sit down let let build port they will give me my share you can't run the country that way what's your take >> fantastic I couldn't agree more because we all know what happened with the 60% VAT >> so why didn't use his power >> why didn't why did why didn't use his power his so-called I am I am 31 out of why didn't he use power then >> there was a revolt in the certain section of the country. So I mean it's just a vicious I yeah no worries I got you let's get African in Africa in a box that's a nice name Africa in the box. Thank you so much.
>> How you doing sir? I'm good. I'm good yourself.
>> I'm doing very well. Yeah it's Sunday and we're doing well you know. Yeah we are recovering from here.
>> Well thanks for your job right now sir.
Uh let me start by correcting something not to take anything from your submission to be honest. You see that Ajakuta example I think is because you know Ajakuta is situated within within huge reserve of iron ore has you know it has to it has limestone.
So I don't think falls within >> let me ask let me ask let me ask you a question. Let me ask a question. Can the iron ore in Nigeria be used in autout?
>> Yeah, there is iron ore in a >> I know. I know. But the qu the question the question I'm asking you is that can the iron ore in Nigeria be used in autout >> like currently? No, it can't be used.
>> Exactly. So Jakuta let's let's be real.
So when you know I've studied Jakakota extensively the Russians did us 419 that's what they did 419 you know let me give you a brief story of a jakakota diversion it's very interesting story diversion when you want to make steel there's what they call furnace there's furnace that has a furnace there's also what they call direct is this the dr direct reduction direct something induction when Nigeria wanted to build a jakakota we didn't have crude oil we had no money. So we went around the world to look for loan for to build a steel plant. Nobody gave us a loan. Russia said we'll give you a loan. After Russia gave us the loan, Nigeria got crude oil.
Nigeria now said listen, we want to build a bigger plant. We don't want small plant from your loan. Want to build a bigger plant. The problem was that this furnace method was a brand new method. This was 1960s was a brand new method. So Nigeria went around the world and they told Nigeria this forest method cannot work because the iron ore in Nigeria can you can't use it. It's low quality doesn't have um enough iron to make iron ore. What the Russians did?
Russians came and told Nigeria that they've done survey and they have found a place in Nigeria where they can get high quality iron ore that they can use to make to energ. So Nigeria give them the contract. They st the contract. It was when they had built enough. They said, "Oops, we don't have any more iron ore." Nigeria at that point should have cut off the contract. We for some strange reason we refused. Ajakuta was Russia's single largest foreign contract. I think to date to date there was direct from Russia to Nigeria. About 20,000 Russians moved here. salaries, everything they were here and they they just ran the when Ajaka was built there was no Delta state. The port in Delta was built for Ajakuta specifically. The railway that we that's railway that comes with Tak that guys in Delta was built specifically for Ajakuta. Why? To import the limestone to import the OS that place in Guinea that China is now is now controlling. Nigeria wanted to go to Guinea and bring in the ore takeout.
So we h we but why was it a problem?
Because it was a wrong wrong sighting.
It was built near there's no water.
There's no reel. How would you have moved the steel out? How they should have put it near the river Niger. So you could have moved the thing from the Atlantic Ocean via barges into Ajakuta.
Why didn't they put it there?
Destion Africa. But come back Africa. Go ahead sir.
>> Yeah. Um um thank you very much Ku to be honest second time um this second time this I'm hearing you say this uh this Ajakuta analysis and the reason why I requested for the mic is to somewhat correct it because as I speak I'm a geologist right and I did a lot of research in Ajakuta right so yeah we we can't call autout iron or reserve high grade but it is medium grade right >> it's low grade it's not medium grade it's low grade the >> medium I I know this okay but the but the iron The ion in Ajakuta cannot be used sorry in ki in kogi cannot be used in Jakuta without beertification. It has to go to a t first. That's the point I'm making. So why did we build a a a a a steel plant near the iron ore source that was of low quality that still needification?
Why not just build it near the water and then build a railway from the iron ore to Ajakuta where the the steel plant would be? That's the point I'm making.
We build the Ajakuta near in a iron ore, but the iron ore is medium quality to quote you sir. So why not build it near the water then build the railway from the ores to the plants. That's what I'm saying. You know, we we we put the cat before the horse. It's like the same with the power plants. The gas is somewhere. We build the power plants somewhere. Then now we're complaining of of gas gas pipes uh being blown up. Why not build the power plants where the gas is then do the transmission lines to take it all across Nigeria?
>> Well, it's the same thing.
>> I get your point. I mean, we cut a lot of cost there, right? Correct.
Yeah.
>> Yes, sir.
>> Yeah. So, yeah. Um, another thing I want I want to talk about is the loan aspect, right? To be honest, the the way we take obtain loan in Nigeria is different from how you know developed countries obtain their loan. People mention America a lot, right? America don't go to IMF from what bank America America sell bonds right so let me zoom in on the last loan we obtained from from United Kingdom this is about 800 million $800 million loan right half of the money has to go back to Britain >> right cuz half of the money have to be used to buy steel >> Britain guess what the next day the the prime minister came out and said oh we are we have found a way to you know our our dead field industry and it's because of the deals they made with Nigeria. So majority of these loans that we that we that we just talk about majority of the money is not even coming to us and half of the money right half of the money is going to bridge right and half of the money is probably going to charge that was just going to us that that loan that loan was just a crazy loan essentially what that loan was that a private individual wanted to buy steel in the UK and the the UK guys told him come and buy from us and he says I don't have money to buy from you your steel is too expensive oh we'll give you a loan to buy but because it's so much money let let Nigeria guarantee the loan that's what happened to Nigeria is guarant that loan was Nigeria guaranteeing a private individual to buy steel from UK who have has anyone this space heard about anybody buying steel from England you buy steel from China and South Korea or Mexico Has anyone seen any project that UK supplied steel for any project in this whole world? Has anyone ever seen if you see a share on the space where you saw UK went and they were building a train then they went and bought steel from UK. It's too expensive. That plant just like Africa is in that plant that that Nigeria bought the steel from was dead. The government had to go in and save that company. So the company was dead. The government of UK nationalized the company. Then the government of UK then went to individual Nigeria and said come and buy steel from us get Niger to guarantee the steel. So in effect Nigeria subsidized a company in the UK.
That's what the loan is for. We went Nigeria Nigeria Africa went to the UK and subsidized workers and a factory in the UK. Their PM came out and like Africa is saying their PM came out and tweeted it that he has saved the plants and the workers. That's what Nigeria subsidized. Let me give you the the killer Africa. There are three steel factories in within Lagos and state three that Nigeria could have gone and taken that money to and give them the country and said okay you guys go to UK you can have done the same thing. They would then have to go to the UK come to Nigeria and do a joint venture. So those Nigerian steel companies would have maybe bought even that UK company, exported the materials to Nigeria or exported the technology to Nigeria. We didn't. We went and subsidized a UK company. Now that tech is going to be in the UK. We would never have it in Nigeria. China developed by buying dead, rusting old companies, steel companies in Germany and Europe, taking them to China, learning how to make high quality steel and then making theirs. Nigeria is not doing the same thing. Africa, man, that's crazy. But good point. Good call out.
>> I mean, thank you very much. Thank you very much.
>> I appreciate you.
>> And I mean, I mean, if you look at the other half that is coming to Nigeria, right, we use it to build a port that and this port will be used port is existing now. The port is existing. The port exists. The the guy is already on the port. It's not We're not building.
It's already existing. It's a It's a sweetheart deal. That deal is just annoying. That's one That's why I don't like this gentleman. He's he's too He's too selfdeing. That's the president.
He's too selfdeing. Everything he does, >> whether it is good, if you look behind it, look at the coastal road. It's a beautiful road. Beautiful road. That road would increase the GDP of Nigeria, that road. But why is he doing it? Why is he doing it? Because it favors him personally.
If he had taken that same money that road had no budget allocation, there was no budget allocation for that road. They now had to put it back into that road.
We don't know till today. Today, no one can tell you how much the coaster is going to cost. No one can tell you. It's a PPP.
>> God says $12 billion.
>> We don't know. We just know it's a PPP.
Nigeria has gone to Deutsche Bank. We borrowed money from Deutscha Bank. We borrowed money again. And then this guy is supposed to do his own borrowing while no one can tell you today what the coastal is going to cost. They asked the gentleman the minister cost per meter.
He couldn't he couldn't answer because they don't have a cost. They want to build that road then to it. Then they will now give us the cost. Then now say okay you are owing. So if you cancel that loan you are owing the guy. Yes. We can we could have taken that money and repaired all the feeder roads that do agriculture Nigeria you can drive down inflation create jobs but we didn't you know everything has a cost if you do if you buy apples the cost is oranges it's not naira if you buy oranges the cost is pineapples it's not oranges I hear you let's get Mike Muri how you doing Mike what's your Mike you've seen our presentation what comes to your mind we're talking about the is Nigeria going to a debt trap are we borrowing too much risk Do you see Mike talk to us?
>> Um personally um the thoughts on my mind are I have checked and definitely I believe that yes we are boring too much because we there are no projects on the ground that justify that amount of borrowing.
There's no production on ground. There are no value chains being developed and all that. But the questions on my mind were are there any specific value chains that we that small or mediumsiz businesses can go into to uh basically uh export and bring in foreign exchange that would help boost the economy.
>> Yeah, there are lot there are lots of value chains especially in Greek it there are lots of value chains in Nigeria.
The good thing with Nigeria is that there's so much lack that if you just do something simple, you make a lot of money. There's so much gap. We import palm oil. Uh we import Gary that we have locally here. If you come to Nigeria, you have a cava processing plant that can turn the cava tubers to high quality cava flour. You can export it or chip.
That's just cassava alone, right?
Soybeans. China is buying tons of soybeans. Again, we have soybeans, but is it processed locally? You saw that there was a tweet where the the ambassador in China posted a picture where China was importing bones from Nigeria, cow bones from Nigeria, right?
And Nigerians were surprised that wow, why are you importing cow bones? There's more value in the cow apart from the bone from the beef. The horns, the blood, the skin, all that make actually as much money as the beef. But no one is doing processing of the cow, the blood of the cow that is to fertilize. No one is doing that. So value chains exist. If you go to the um so many Nigerian website, it will show you how to what is the need is out there that you can come in here and invest. It's really about you have to be here. So I know if you're asking a question of what can you invest in, but if that's your question, there's so much you can invest in in Nigeria that you can make a lot of money. The problem is that are you going to really be invested? Um who's going to manage that um asset for you? Because if you don't if you leave them alone, sorry to say, they they steal the whole thing down. But if it's is that opportunities, the answer is a big yes.
Okay. And then um another um thing I was you know that's been running through my mind is I read an article about how our uh ginger production was wiped out to zero.
>> Yeah.
>> Due to uh GMOs degrading the our soil.
>> Yeah. um soil. Um you we all know and you know based based on the fact that I understand how western countries basically look at such things as GMOs are basically a subscription. They're DSTV for food. You that's what that's what it is. You're paying a subscription to a foreign company to give you seeds to plant so that you can eat.
>> Yeah.
>> Um is there anything we can do in terms of our local seeds?
You you know I'm I'm very very big on Nigerians and Africans all together eating our own our food is healthier.
>> Yeah. By by a mile.
>> Yes. Is there anything or are there any projects or are there any write ups that someone can look at about how we can basically get you know get local seeds store them and you know be able to use our local seeds to compete with these GMOs because I don't you know already a bad situation.
>> Yeah. Mike, Mike, Mike Mike, that's another opportunity right there on the value chain for you to look at in terms of to say, okay, we don't have a we have a seed. I know we have one seed, not a Nigerian seed company is in the north where we make seeds for I believe it's for maze and for corn and all that, but what's the funding? Seeds are big business. You know the guys in German, what's her name? The guy seats conceded.
And if you are buying those seeds now, they've mixed G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G GMO in. So when you buy them, you're getting GMO. But if you had a local guy in Nigeria that was doing organic seed, just growing the seeds, ginger doesn't use seeds, right? As I learned, it use just the the results they they they get the small B and they plant them. And I think what happened the ginger is the disease that came and has wiped away the the the ginger plant got the disease again. No pesticides.
We're not using pesticides. We don't have proper management of the seed value chain. So just like how tomato there something that tomato tomatoes did not get wiped out with one disease. We're not really managing our our local ecosystem that well there's a moth that comes from the north from Ner Republic.
It come just kills the tomatoes. It lays the eggs. It kills it. What's the out?
What's the way out? green houses where you just have the taps over the the tomatoes and you can grow the tomatoes not in the outdated sun but we're not doing all those things. Nigerian's agriculture is whole cutas and and rainfall it's not it is not tech. So these are all the value chains you are talking about. We don't have them but if you come do them boom you are you are in the money because seeds are and like fertilizer >> very very important sir.
>> Thank you.
>> You're very welcome. Let me get my good friend Anna. Anna sir, how you doing?
>> Proverbs 13:20. He that moves with the wise will become wise but a company of fools will be destroyed. So some discussion >> I'll just go straight and say it's clearly a leadership issue >> and um Nigeria behaves like the ostrich even in this just like we're discussing that we just put our head under the sand >> forget that the body is showing you know when you go to the stock market when you go short or long the money you're expecting to make is against the fulcrum of the others who have gone in the opposite direction >> of how you've gone. So we don't live in isolation. The world has gained what you call a global equilibrium where everyone must position themselves strategically to leverage on the opportunities they have and go into a negotiation with the opportunity to win. And I believe strongly that wealth is your negotiating power. So I'd say the key issue here centered across everything we're discussing is one of leadership. Why? We go into negotiations very weak and when we sign those debt those debt deals you're coming from a weak standpoint and what gives you leverage to take a decision like firm is based on the strength of what you have. to the geopolitics. What do I mean? Because we're a member of OPEC, for example, where we use OPEC like oil and gas >> to to to put shook hold on the other countries. It's also in the best interest of the west to leverage either with their debt for steel. They gave us 746 million pounds. Whatever time they can gain leverage over us, they would because what we call brain drain is actually brain gain for the west. what we call a bad debt or is Nigeria having a debt issue is actually maybe leverage buyback for the for the west. So what am I saying? We owe $18 billion for example which gives us a weaker negotiating power negotiating power on the table.
But that is a leverage for the west.
That is a leverage to ensure that we don't compete in some areas. You talked of the budget the same budget if you go look at it you see a lot of solar panels >> those things are built >> from the west. So it's better. So we need a leader who understand the global economy, the global politics able to put us in a strong place then we will not even be discussing that. Then to the issue you were talking of um the steel low grade steel both of you were correct because low grade steel can be improved the quality to high grade just like you remove sulfur from high sulfur crude which the beautifification you talked about and it's not entirely wrong to site different parts of a plant or a supply chain in different locations. The 787 the dreamliner was built with 50 partners across 10 countries. There's an economic benefit to that to actually spread out the manufacturing and it doesn't matter if it was low grade or even there was no iron ore we can site any plant anywhere is just to put in efficiency. So I'll say for starters the key issue here is leadership because you cannot solve a problem with the same thinking that created it and that is leadership to give us a strong negotiating power either when we are borrowing like the steel issue you spoke about that the whole steel will be imported which is you really did not borrow. So it doesn't matter if we borrow or do not borrow the leadership at that point will determine the direction of where we're going will determine the strategic advantage we're trying to position Nigeria for. And the big I would ask in the room today is >> we know India for IT talent. The president Banga amongst Masterard and others they all of Indian descent. We know the US for technological proess Apple general dynamics military technologies. We know China for for low manufacturing good work ethos among others. The big question is as a country what is Nigeria's distinctive economic advantage? I can't answer that and I think unless we answer that and we put that as a forcum to aid our negotiations and we begin to project ourselves with the proper leadership that understands not just the micro dynamics because the macro dynamics predicates that the man who has borrowed you746 million pounds for your port project the man who has who has a debt stock in your billion dollars he's an equally partner in he's actually a Nigerian >> and he has a a role to play on who becomes president, who sits on the on the seat and he would never put someone there that will come to negotiate with them on the same standard. So I think we should really change strategically leadership and ensure that we have someone who is smart enough to understand the under the economic undercurrent the global geopolitics and position Nigeria with love to ensure that we position our country. But the big question I put again, what is Nigerian's economic advantage and what is our economy known for? Until we answer that, we'll just be dancing in circles. Thank you.
>> Yeah, great submission again, Mr. fantastic. Again, just want to go back to Ajakuta. I mean, and if you read Ajakuta, you wouldn't believe what you're reading. You would read it and you wouldn't believe what you're reading. I can give you many examples.
Ajakuta was importing importing steel before the foreigners was ready. Why?
Because the government banned some import had an import policy that so the Ukrainian guys had to import the steel to ensure that they were steel producing company to be able to get forest from the CBN. So Ajakuta was importing steel that it was supposed to make. They would import it into the country and then they were making billets uh from the steel.
The whole thing was a mess. We were importing, we were going to import the the limestone, the ore, but it was integrated. So siting that's why Ajakuta was the only company Niger built that had a furnace. The other steel companies were all built with direct reduction iron or direct reduction method and they were all built by nonRussian companies. All of them, Delta, Katsina, Oshobo, all built by nonRussian because it's a big big hole. They they really dealt with Nigeria strategically. The iron ore was not ready. Like you said, I would have said, okay, where is the is the is the problem is the movement. You can't move those things by road. They are too heavy. So if you going to site it in a place where you're going to use raw materials, put it there. But where they put it, they had no raw materials.
they had to go to a tag. So why not put a inb I don't know but that's a different one you've asked a question what are we known for I think in the 1960s when was known for cocoa we are known for palm oil were number one in in in pal number one or two in palm oil or number one and two in cocoa today those are gone those are gone even crude oil that we now became known for in Africa is Angola is snipping at our heels Libya is still at our heels if you go back to today now I think we are getting known for We're bringing out unicorns are in Africa about if you look at 10 of them three or four are from Nigeria. Spain techch it good good uh quality young English speaking people a good leader to take these little um factors here and there and build and tie them with the rope and position Nigeria as how India positioned Tata and Infosys just before the Y2K a region of high quality lowcost labor they've done the fintex they've done it if you come in and you are able to invest in Nigeria in a tax zone that has power, that has security is a way for it to bypass the high cost China, Taiwan and come to Nigeria. If I was president, all the coastal states, I would declare them taxfree. All of them for no federal tax. I'll talk to the state government, see if I can make make them zero taxes for foreign investment.
So if you come and set up a factory in the coastal state, you pay absolutely zero federal, state, local taxes.
Whatever you bring in, you can repatriate. Let the companies come there, set up industries there, hire Nigerians, then train your educational institutions to then produce graduates that can go work there, learn the technology, go back to the hinterland, and then build the Nigerian variant.
This is exactly what China did which means we have to focus on education have to focus on infrastructure and we have to change laws. China was a communist nation that allowed capitalist companies on its coastline. Why? It wanted investment. So why are we not doing it?
You know copy from those that have where they have worked copy localize implement. That's how I would do it if I had any power in Nigeria. But hey what do I know? Let's get Julian. Julian Olawi. Julian, hi. You were here last week, but you couldn't speak. Sorry, I couldn't hear you speak. I think we had audio issues last week.
>> Yeah, that's true. Hi, Carlo. It's been a while. How you doing?
>> Yes, sir. I'm doing very well, thank you.
>> Yeah. Okay, let's get to the space again. Um, well, I I've heard many things tonight and one of the challenges I have with a lot of Nigerians that speak, not I'm not including you, is this. We are very skilled at diagnosing problems but giving real solutions that really could change the game are some things we've had. We've always had we are good at our lives but the best critics on Twitter we are the best everywhere but what I want to just say what I want to talk about is I want to ask a question but before I make that question I'll say this one of the issues of government in Nigeria is the civil service. No matter what happens, you know, if the government decides today to to drop salaries or to lay off some people to drop, you know, the cost of this expenditure and all that, you know, what's going to happen the next day? NLC will call total strike and Niger will be shut down for the next one month until the government bends.
>> So when you have that happen, you know, the government, you sometimes you wonder, okay, who side the problem first? Who came first? Was it the hand or the egg? because you know if price tries NLC will say no. Then secondly um when we talk about federal character one of the reasons why um you made a statement about us situating um industries where they have the best advantage. I agree totally but the issue is this any person that wants to enter into government has to dance the tune of those who helped him to get there. And you know they will say if you sit it here the guys in this space might get stronger than what we can manage. So please let's make sure we favor the party and people that support us to come inside. So it's never going to be a fair fight because politics always come to play. It will never be a fair fight. So the question to us is just a rhetorical question is that those of us that know better let's get off Twitter join the political parties. It might you that's just the way if you know you can do something join the political I'm not saying join APC ND join anyone understand the system from within and then you can get you can get a c of I think like you and in the future you can do something that that will hit the country well. So that's my submission.
Now back to my question. Um I heard um I heard some years ago I heard some CEOs um doing an interview in the US and they were talking about the American debt which of course makes Nigeria look like as if we we are players. We are just singing and they made a statement that um if the government of the US comes to the private sector in the US they can clear off the American debt and they all agreed. So that got me thinking is it possible that Nigeria could f instead of focus on focusing on external you know the world bank is there we could focus on the on the major players in the Nigerian industrial scene the corporate guys and still we could get the money inhouse instead of having to go to these people all the time. um Indom the GG made a statement once and and I I I thought about it so that if the government can put all of our things on the stock exchange you know our projects and make it such that it can be seen publicly by everyone they raise enough money to fund one or two so I'm putting this question to you um K what do you think about that is this something I think is viable in this country thank you once again is dollar or naira just this fundraising dollar or naira Okay. Well, is it possible in Okay, let's look at both. Is it possible in dollar or in Naira?
>> Yeah, you can do you can do both.
Nigeria has issued a dollar bond in Nigeria. That's a bond. issued a dollar bond. The federal government issued a dollar bond. Meaning you buy it in Nigeria with dollars. The federal government will pay you dollars. Yeah.
>> Okay. But can we use that to I'm talking about eliminate our debt so that we just focus on Nigerian countries companies alone. Do you think our companies are enough to handle that?
>> Yeah. Look at it this way. Once you once you introduce dollar into any investment, that means you are now competing with the US dollar and the US companies. Okay? So look at it this way.
If I want to invest and I have a million dollars and I I just got that money from inheritance, I don't want any story. I want to to the rest of my life. I'm going to earn spend whatever I earn from that money for the rest of my life.
Would I put that money in Nigeria or the US?
The answer is going to be the US. Even if Nigeria pays me 100%. I wouldn't put because remember I want to use this money for the rest of my life so I can afford to lose it. That's why rule of law is very very important. Why do folks go to Why is the US 10year bond the safest investment on earth? America has rule of law. No matter who the president is, they can't just go to your account and lock it up. You can sue them and you can win. Many guys have have had their accounts locked up, they sue, they win with damages. In Nigeria, uh a governor can be removed and a military guy appointed and then the governor brought back. Look at the primaries that are going on. a sitting governor doesn't get the city you so these things might look like Nigerians look at them and we laugh and we joke and we tweet but it the bond market will punish you later on for this when Nigeria wants to borrow money we are borrowing at a rate higher than Togo Ben >> Rwanda there's a reason why we are borrowing higher than them we have a larger economy but our costs are higher because the market looks at Nigeria as too risky it's a country whereby they abandon in the country. You know, when you kidnap, usually when if if maybe there's a kidnap in America, they are hiding. So the FBI is looking for them.
In Arizona, they it's a lot of kidnapping, but they are hiding. So they're looking for them, then they maybe they'll go to one place, they will be a a bust, they will find people, they are hiding. They kidnapped Gotry's mother-in-law. They've not found out till today.
>> She's not been found to today. The difference with Arizona Nigeria is that the guys that kidnap Nigeria would show their face openly on TV on Instagram openly. They will show their face. They will say deliver the money. I've seen where they the guys who motorcycle with police to deliver ransom to some guys under a tree in a place. So when you have a society or a country where the government cannot guarantee its borders, what I mean is borders, they will kidnap people inside the country, hold them inside the country, collect ransom inside the country, do large scale displacements of people from states. You see people you see videos of students running away from a certain state or from certain region and the government seems incapable of stopping it. How can that same government go and say they want to issue a bond? They do it and people invest but it's risky.
That's why we are paying 7 8% for a nation like us. So that's the that's the answer to you. We can we can but will investor us by uh that's just it. And even when they if if you say we can't, they're going to there's no way you're going to borrow cheaper because of your high risk. You're going to borrow very expensive. So the World Bank is giving you a cheaper loan than you get from Nigerians. World War is two two 3%.
Bilateral trade China is going to give you two 3% with 10 years moratorium.
Euro bonds even the Wall Street guys, the golden geckos are giving you loan below 10%. Below 10%. What will you have to pay a Nigerian to invest in Nigeria?
Apart from patriotism, if you say, "Kalo, you have a million dollars, take it out of America, bring to Nigeria and invest Nigeria." What do you have to pay me? I'm getting 3% 4% in America. So, you have to pay me anywhere from say 78%. Already so. So, where's the savings? Unless there are many ways you can do this, right? You can do what's called impact bonds. An impact bond is to say you say Caru, this is sending money to your village to build road. I'm going to do an impact bond. The federal government will take that money from you and build that road. And you would only pay when the road is built. So if you Google impact bonds, they're very very useful. They're like what they call project bonds. So you can say if you want to build a school in your village, you give the money, but the money is only released when the school is built.
So that way it's a you don't get money from it. It's 1% interest. It's like a social welfare bond kind of. But you are targeting project. That's how you want to do it. That's what China did. That's what Vietnam did. That's what Korea did.
It's not commercial. It's we want to invest in our nation. We want to invest in the rate that is lower and then we're able to then build nation. But if you do commercial, you have to trust people.
Remittances Nigeria gets about 40 billion a year remittances, right? 3540 billion a year. That money is social money. So if what if you simply say okay if you do remittances just send one extra dollar is going to go through a an infrastructure fund and that infrastructure fund goes to the local government and local government would issue an impact bond and you would have a company that would make sure so look at what will happen if you go to say Abia state you say okay if you are a carpenter or you are a plumber or you are a brick layer register when I send monetary impact bond I will give it to those registered carpenter I say okay go to a local bank and go and borrow money and build the road or whatever that the man has ask you to build once you build it call me when they build that road they call me I take a picture I send back to you you say ah the road is built release the money I release the money to them so there's a checks and balances why will they go to why will the bank let them money because the bank is saying we're giving you a project loan they're going to pay back because American guys is going to pay you they would have to do the road to get the money they have to call a third party guy to verify the has been built but the money is already in the account in the bank that's going to pay them. So it's not a news thing impact bonds. If you do something like that you get infrastructure built in your local governments in your states without waiting for debt or bonds or loans. But it comes back to personnel is what you call policies personnel. Can you trust the local government guys in your village? Can you trust them? So >> in the end we we suffer we s when when you elect all these guys when you say go to politics we we we suffer the effect of of allowing governance only to be run by politicians. Right. If you look >> Yeah. If you if you allow these guys that just just flood the flood the zone and do nonsense they're just going to spend your money and nothing's going to get done. Nothing's going in America. I saw I I went to a party. I don't call the guy's name. I don't I don't know. I saw a guy here in America. He's the his father is in Nigeria. It's a big boy in Nigeria. The guy was just giving money out.
>> So the American guy was asking me, "Oh, he's like a Nigerian prince." I said, "No, he's a thief."
>> So how is he a why isn't the FBI arresting him? They were like, "Okay, why are you calling him a thief? Why you if he's a thief, why you arresting him?
And I couldn't say anything because she's right. If he's a thief, why are you not arresting him? Why is he over here in America um spending money, Nigerian money all over? And there are so many of them in America. In was it Kenya? No. What country was it?
Cameroon. In Cameroon, they formed this um association in Cameroon. If you are a government minister and you move to Europe, you go to Europe, you've seen a hotel, they will flood that hotel line with calls, they will go outside the hotel and camp. If you go to shop, they will go to the place and follow you.
They made it impossible for these guys to enjoy their money when they come abroad. We should start doing that, too.
If someone steals money, somebody who steal money and they say if you if you go and rob with a gun in Nigeria, that's arm robbing. They shoot you, they kill you. But someone takes the money for water, buys his wife a G Wagon, then kids die of color. Isn't that Isn't that Isn't that um murder?
>> It's worse. It's worse, Kylie. You just have We have to stand up. Thanks so much, K.
>> All right. You're welcome. Let's get Isaac. Isaac. Isaac, go ahead, man.
Isaac, thanks for waiting. Appreciate you.
>> Yeah. Hi, Kio. How you doing, sir?
>> Thanks for Yeah, I'm fine. Um so I just wanted to thank you for all the insights you shared here. Um but there's one thing I wanted to ask. So at a very very macro level you know GDP and everything we are here having this conversation and because we kind of understand the implication of some of these things it's easier to you know um flow and also get all the implication of what's happening and as I even hear you analyze some of these things I there's a level of anger that is being stirred up in me but at the very m micro level which something you call like stomach infrastructure I think an average Nigerian is at that level.
>> Yeah.
>> And how what would be your advice or how do you think some of these messages can be >> um distilled to them to really understand what is happening? Because I I feel like an average Nigerian just just feel this level of helplessness not not by choice but because they don't just even understand what is happening.
So what what would you how would you approach that or what are some of the advices you have for >> you know you know do you know how you can solve corruption and mismanagement in Nigeria now you can solve it in one full graphs if it was possible to carry everybody from Nigeria just carry every Nigeria for one day to any western capital just for one day then take them back to Nigeria once you do that it will stop it will stop there is this myth it might be true that militancy in Nigeria started. I don't know how old you are but there was a guy called Nambik was it Nambikano or something cano when Abbacha went to run for office you know how Abbacha is wanted to run for office there was this guy that went and was doing youths andly ask for a bacha it's like what they're doing today with city boys before city boys there was yay was youthly ask for abacha what he would do he would take people from this state they go to Abuja and march they said when he took the guys from Niger Delta to Abuja.
The guys saw Abuja and said what? So country fine like this. That's how they started men. They said no no no no you must you must increase our money. If Abuja can be this fine you must increase our that's how it started. Nigerians and again I apologize I don't want to speak broadly. But you cannot wish for what you have not seen.
Do you know that when I grew up in Nigeria I at least I saw power. I saw NEPA walking before it went down. I saw a bit of NEPA walking. The school I went to for five years, they took light once.
I was in Jos. They took light once and they told all of us. It wasn't Nepa. It was something else. They took light once. Guys in know it. It was closed in Bukuru. They were in Nepa. Took light once. So I saw a bit of NEPA. But a kid today, think about this. A kid that was born from say 2000 thinks it is impossible to have 24 hours power supply. That's what a kid that was born thinks. A kid that was born in 20 thinks that that the only way he can go to university is by getting a loan from the government or from a rich relative.
That's what a kid thinks. A kid that was also pointed on thinks that insecurity is something you live by. Just pray, go out, don't try to get kidnapped, be very very smart about you and all that. If police stop you, you can bribe them or don't wear dreadlocks. This what they all believe. This what they all believe that jam is you you if you dry jam with candles. It's nothing wrong now. is at least you can see there's scandal that if a road is built you should thank the governor or thank the government chairman. This what people believe. So when you have people with this belief and you give them 50,000 naira don't you see them thanking the position. I want to see those videos on Twitter where they will line them up and give them cash and the guys will thank the position. Thank you sir for giving me cash. The cash is their money. But they don't understand there is no relation in Nigeria between tax increase and the money in their wallet, between inflation and well-being, between elections and GDP.
There's no correlation. Nigerians don't relate that if you elect this person and he does this policy, I will have food on my table. They don't link it up. Why? I don't want to get into that. So when we do speak why I do things like this is to take this information that you know try to break it down and show Nigerians this is what's going on. So at least when you are talking to someone you can say hang on this is this this is this where you can't get angry. You can't just say I hate the president. I hate the governor.
I hate Nigeria. Why do you hate it? They are borrowing too much. What are they borrowing? You don't have any data. you don't have any that's why I do what I do. So you can have information to say this what we should change. If you just say no I'm angry, you're not going to get anything done. The way to your question specifically if you show people what is stomach infrastructure when did we first hear in Nigeria stomach infrastructure Mr. Fio at your daily fire. What was he doing? I saw him go to carpenters and he gave capitals in Ekit state the contract to build tables and chairs. Carpenters. So he called all the counters in Ekit state and he gave them a multi-million dollar contract to build tables and chairs. Instantly he gave them all jobs. He gave them cash money because they were building the chairs from wood in a state. They got a salary.
The schools got chairs. That normal contract would have been given to a contractor who will then go to China and import those tables and chairs. But fire did it gave the the the carpenter stomach infrastructure. That's why they could not beat him in any election. He will enter Okada. Listen, it's it's not that he he could have been a bad guy, but people just want to say this guy is alliance with us. He he opened his municipal government house to the youth to come and swim. That was the guy that started smacking infrastructure and it was supposed to be that you take infrastructure that agree to the people the very very basic level to the people full school feeding he did it but now we've done stomach infrastructure to rice rice and whatever that's the problem America they do stomach infestation in America they do it here they have if you go to they have they will give you free food they give you free houses they give you free bus ride every child in America goes free buses to school. Every child gets a school meal in school. Every single child that stomach infrastructure, why do they feed their children in Niger in America and not Nigeria? Because the level of the the demand from the lowest of the low in America is higher than Nigerian guys. We don't demand. So the politicians don't give it to us. If you today tell the politicians, if you want to vote for you, buy me an Okad, buy you an Okada.
But if you demand for 50k, they give 50k. I don't if I'm making sense to you, sir. It's what we our level of of of pride. If you give someone dirty water and that's all he has to drink, he will drink the dirty water. But if you give someone dirty water and clean water, he will always pick the clean water every day of the week. You have to give the contrast. People are not fools, but people are just too poor and too hungry and they've lost hope. So many folks that are quote unquote supposed to be educated, are supporting nonsense in Nigeria. Go to Twitter and just post something. You see, the people that respond to you are educated people, not illiterates that would defend this nonsense are educated people. Like I said, I said in America doing nonsense here. I was in England. I don't want to name names. Deep the poo told that a governor was in that school and he shared a 100 was given£100 to all the students. His daughter goes to the school not now wasn't now was maybe two or three regimes ago was given£100 to his kids in UK school but in Nigeria it doesn't do anything. It's just mess.
Isaac. Yeah. Sorry if I ranted there but it's just >> Oh, I mean thanks that that was really good. I mean it made a lot of sense because I'm just thinking about it like you use um America um once groceries um prices goes up the government start panicking they they start looking for things to do to make sure that people are not complaining too much accountability >> look look at Trump why is Trump ending the war why is Trump ending the war because there's going to be summer is coming >> people are going to buy gas and gas is I I I gas is now $5 you fill your tank with a$100 effing dollars 100. So he knows that even if he's Trump, he can't go into summer buying gas. So he changes. In Nigeria, they increase the price of PMS.
I support removal of fuel subsidy because it's a waste. But you can't increase fuel price, increase the cost of Nigerians by three times and there's no palative. The palative was rice. How can you increase cost of of PMS and give people rice as paliative? And people took the rice. People took the rice. PTF was a paliative. Petum trust fund was a paliative.
>> So why are why Nigeria is not demanding petroleum trust fund? Why they demanding bags of rice? So don't blame So you see sometimes we blame politicians. Don't blame politicians. Don't blame politicians. It is Nigerians that are demanding nonsense and getting nonsense.
If you got Delta State, half the road is covered with Karua.
Half the road. Why? That's what the people said they want. They want Kamarua. They don't want I don't want to be brought broad. But see the point I'm making. You go to some place, they give them fish or they give them uh polished for to do polishing shoe kit. If you demand nonsense, politicians are politicians go to nips in kuru. They are trained to be politicians. They they they network. They tra they learn from experience. They pass down knowledge.
That's all politicians do. But the quote unquote citizens on Twitter just go on Twitter and talk. They're not trained.
They don't organize themselves. They are not funded. They don't bring in. You can go to America. There are so many of these packs that do political whatever.
You can go and say, "Hey, can you come and train us on how we can organize ourself for the election?" America, they have all these sparks that that that run elections for people that do messaging, that do data management, that do how to reach into a state. Has anyone done done in Nigeria? There's a strategy. Who did the APC call? They called Alex Axel Rod, but you you want to go on Twitter and Rick, you don't want to call your own Axel Rod. That's how they won. They called Axel Rod to teach them messaging and the man taught them. Did you see Bhari wearing a suit? You think just you think just like to wear a suit? Buhari.
You're laughing.
But it's true, bro. If you want to know, it's in the Bible. It's in the Bible. If you want to go into someone's house, you first of all bind the strong man.
>> Yeah.
>> So the Bible is saying that the man is strong. Forget the binding. The Bible saying a man you are going to his house is strong. That's what the man is strong. So when poverty is strong, a bag of rice, if I come to Nigeria today and I go to my place and I start to give them bag of rice every month, give them money every month, they they will kill for me. And that's the problem in Nigeria. do it in America. Come to America and try it.
>> I just want to um piggy back off what you were just saying. Sorry. Sorry to interrupt you.
>> Um when I came to Niger for the first time, Niger was very good. It was so good that nobody who came to Niger then wanted to go back to anywhere.
>> What year was this?
>> That was 84.
>> Wow. That's that's >> Yeah, that was that was 84.
>> 84 was Andrew. Now Andrew, no. Check out it. No, but Nigeria was still very good compared to now. Niger was evil compared to that.
>> Gosh, Niger was still very very good, >> bro. Let me tell you, let me tell you a story. Sorry. Let me give you a story. I was on a plane with a lady from Lebanon, you know, classic Lebanon. And when we were landing, so we were talking and then she was telling me she lived in Nigeria for about nearly 23 years in Nigeria. So I was talking how do you get to Nigeria? She said they were in Lebanon. There was a civil war. No, Lebanon was created by France. So when there was a civil war, the Christians were leaving Lebanon to go to France. So back then they would go from Lebanon then they would go to Cano and catch a flight. So it's Lebanon to Cano. Then in Cano catch a flight from Cano to France.
That's how developed Nigeria was. So her father and her uncle had gone. I think her uncle had gone. Then the uncle came back and said he didn't go to France again. What happened? He went to Nigeria. This country this country in Africa they have street lights. Their currency is strong, everywhere is clean, misorganized. They didn't believe it because they had never seen an African before. It was in the 70s know that there was no an African. So like how what do you mean Africa? Their videos of Africa were like, you know, Kakinte.
That's what I thought Africa was. So they flew into Nigeria. Not even Lagos to Cano.
They never left.
So many of these Lebanese guys you see in Nigeria they that's how they came to Nigeria during that exodus from Lebanon instead of going to France they stayed in Nigeria they stayed in Lagos in Canoa so many of them that's how good Nigeria was she was giving me the prize of sad was this that when people in France now staying about Nigeria the people were leaving France the leans leaving France to come back uh to Nigeria it's it's you're you're right I'm just giving you I was just backing you up you're right it's you're even making my point. So during that period I went to I went to um so you know in the parts of Niger where you consider as a slum as you know they're supposed to be a slum right so after these Sunday services right you families go to visit other families in church that those people were living good >> and then yeah the soal so-called slums then and then another thing was that on I met someone who told me that the students in my university who now told me that look you guys think you're enjoying you're not enjoying anything that in those days that that a little before I came that when in most federal universities that when you and even state universities that when you pay your school fees first of all the school fees are low and secondly you don't buy food they give you tickets for three square meals a day that has so many tickets and the kind of food they eat is like the kind of food that they serve in chicken republic >> Isaac when when in Nigeria I'm just curious >> me 215 Wow. So I mean what do you know of Ali must go? Ali must go protest was because they increased school feeding. Is it by from 30 K to 50 K? I'm not I wasn't there yet but I think that's what I heard. Ali must go. Ali was like the commissioner or whatever and the students revolted that Ali must go because he increased their feeling to 50. You're right. I mean let's give time to speak. But the point I'm making is this right? This Nigeria was a great country. Great country. this thing that Trump is saying make America great.
That's the next it should be make Nigeria great again. Nigeria was a great country and you see the problem with Nigeria is that everything make us great is still in Nigeria.
See I went to a state let me give you the I went to Bouchi state wasn't like a project and we were trying to do to get industries that we could privatize. I came in contact with the Northern Nigerian Economic Plan. I've said this on Twitter before. If you want to read the most detailed report done to industrialize a nation, this is a northern nation. Go and read the Northern Nigerian economic plan. They had a company called Northern Nigerian Company. They had a skyscraper in Abuja in in Kaduna years before the Lagos guys had one.
This was written written for them by the British. It had everything. Ranches.
Ranches. So that not cattle run or Niger ranches, cattle processing, railways. If you go to Bouchi, what is in that bouch?
You know, Bouchi that you see today was Bouchi and just together that was one state. B ranches, um copper wires, aluminium smelters, it's all in that Bouchi state. That's an industrial powerhouse there. Have you heard anything about Baoi in any competition Nigeria? If I start to list was in Baoi, do you know that in Baoi they they developed a ranch and a cattle pressing zone. So they would get the ranch. The ranch would get cattle from all over West Africa. They will fatten them in the ranch. Then they will process them in a facility in Bai.
Then they'll put them on trains. The train will take the meat to Lagos and to Portacot and also export it to Saudi Arabia. Did you know that? Not not I didn't say now. I said 1970s.
So if the guys in Bry had simply revived that they have been exporting things to Saudi to Lagos and to Potakos. It's still there. It's still there. So that's the annoying thing in Nigeria that we don't you just have to just make one or two things work. The same Bouchi. Who remembers Vegruit? Veg fruit tomato drink. Veg fruit mango. It's in Bouchi.
It's dead. But the factory is still there. If you drive on Bouch, you see just you see mango on the road, food on the road. It's there. I'm not giving you Google it. Vet fruit is there. What have we done about it? And you can go around.
Look, go to Kina. Go to Bombay. You see factor factory dead. Now the leans have come to take it over. Go to Cano.
Textile companies is dead. Go to Lagos.
Go to Mi. They've converted warehouse that were making goods to churches.
Churches. Mega churches in Mi factories now for for praising God. A former factory mi dead. Go to go to transadi oil and gas dead. Aba is because they have small small small scale. That's why small scale. So if you if you come as a president you say listen we're just going to go back we're going to stop all this nonsense buy private jet here buy private jet here just bring your head down and walk not all this I want to look for investors you are looking for investors to do what you have assets in Niger that are just lying follow people have billions in the banks there's about 20 billion United States dollars in dumb accounts in Lagos nowhere to invest it nobody wants to invest everywhere. If you invest you lose money so they keep it in the bank. You have money Nigeria you have factor you can revive in Nigeria. Who is organizing and tying these things together? Um um calaba budu cattle ranch dead. Yanari game reserve the president of Nigeria will go to Yankari go to bud ranch dead. the largest um structure is it a man-made structure in the wall I think it's in the world like a wall it's somewhere in Lagos state have you ever heard about it it's there bene is there they are fighting over the museum so Nigeria is a very it it drains you and ignorance is bliss because I know these things I get sad sometimes if you don't know it you're okay don't try to know it if you can't take it but it's sad what Niger can do and is not doing sad. You have >> Saudi Arabia used to come >> used to come the same you UC that king of to come they don't have water and light they don't have water and light UC h so it's it's the country is just you know you just need if if you just we need our own Trump will come and say listen make Nigeria great again and focus on Nigeria first Niger citizens first we want to make and it it was possible the richest Niger ever been was 2014 that's the richest Nigeria's ever been in the history of Nigeria 2014 people are coming back home to Nigeria that's when we had ministers it was the ministers were working abroad they would leave their job abroad in IMF and um sorry World Bank and the former minister of foreign affairs and come to Nigeria to work in Nigeria not the other way around now people now work in Nigeria then go abroad so 2014 what was your n how was what was your exchange rate what was your level of of of exports. What was happening? Niger Niger was in in the JP Morgan emerging bond index. He was in the back emerging bond index. Dollar fool everywhere. I remember Soludo when it was a CBN governor saying threatening that if you are holding dollar he was going to destroy you. What I mean destroy like he was going to the naira was getting so much value. I was saying if you are holding dollar and people were shaking cuz we had about $60 billion in foreign reserves we are doing about $2 million in crude oil export inflation was single digit and stable so why would you go abroad what did you why japatu where why you go japatu so again I don't want to take too much time I don't want to give you chief is here but it's not impossible to fix Nigeria The most educated president we've had, when I mean educated, I mean in world affairs, investment that knows what's up, is Tinubu.
He knows what's up. What has he done with it? What's he done with it? I don't want to attack any politician. What has he done with it? Every day I'm going to look for investors. What has come? I brought in 20 trillion. His own federal government publishes FDIs that come to Nigeria. It's not 20 billion. They publish it. It's not 20 billion. But every day I've gone 20. You go on Twitter, we are bringing in billions.
But you on your own publish report shows the money is not coming in. We have to reduce bring like as they say in local English, keep your head down. Reduce our head. Bring it down. Agree that we have a problem and fix it. All this gallivanting around doing politics primary you win terminal primary is not helping anybody anybody at all. It's not. Let's get uh chief after chief we sort of wind down the space and cut it. Thank you guys for listening. Chief go ahead chief.
>> Oh thank thanks a lot Mr. Ku. This this topic you know is very very interesting.
So when I saw the space I said let me try and I got lucky. Yeah I mean you're right. Um so the answer to this is is the debt sustainable yes and no. Uh you know the no part for me is is the fact that we while the ratios look you know comparable. I mean okay when you look at the other uh countries that are also borrowing and doing well >> uh but the question is what are we using this borrowing for? What are we what are they being used for? Are they being used in a productive manner to ensure that at the end of the day either we're growing industrial capacity or we're growing production of oil and gas >> or we are solving insecurity problem in such a way that against all these monies that are coming in and going back we can now have proper FDI that that would ensure that the economy grow in a sustained manner. The truth of the matter and the frustrating thing is that Nigeria has huge potential. I mean we're talking about 800 kilometers of coastal line 37 billion bars of proven oil 215 trillion cubic feet of gas.
>> That is not to talk about all the other minerals that we have. We have gold in the north.
>> We have arable farmland uh you know that can feed perhaps maybe the whole of West Africa. There's just so much potential.
But like you have alluded to, we lack leadership.
All we're doing is framing. All we're doing is making all this misrule. And you know, I don't you said somebody is the most educated. You know, that's debatable.
>> No, I mean educator. I mean like connections globally. He was the governor of Lagos, which was the economic capital of Nigeria for eight years. Right before him was Obasen who was an international guy i.e. he was like a um NGO guy international guy military guy after him was Yara unfortunately he passed away. Good luck was from a small state became president.
He had no contact when he became president. Tunibu was governor of Lagos the commercial capital not just of Nigeria of West Africa. So he had the connections. He knows what's up. He's a businessman. So you would have expected he would have come like a Trump and say okay let us do business let's do private sector let's make the economy productive let's take this debt and then invest in infrastructure there's a slide I haven't showed you here the debt is going not to capex it's going to other things this is from the federal government on numbers so that's the point I'm making he he he knows what's up he knows what to do I don't know if he's if he's constrained by his first term >> or if he This is him. I don't know. But I'm quoting numbers. I'm not attacking the man. His first term has been disappointing in terms of his reforms. I supporting rubing field subsidy. I support floating a dollar. I've never attacked it. Go on. My Twitter feed is there. Never attack the guy on this. But when you have so much power, what have you done with it? He always boast I have 31 out of 36 state governors. But you took monies from fuel subsidy and shared out and these governments are just spending at will one bought a golf cart.
Where is the investment in health education? We have states in Nigeria.
People are fleeing local government from bandits fleeing a mass food is expensive power supply. Mr. Tonu said if you vote me in if I don't give you power don't vote me in. So where are we? There's the point. These are the real things. So I don't want to get political, but he's got to take a grip, grab this thing and get busy. All this praise that they are praising him up the whole place, they've praised people before.
I don't know, man.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Let me let me just wrap up.
It's unfortunate. So the people who are throwing monies at us, borrowing uh I mean they'll keep they'll keep uh giving us money because they can see the potential. and they will know that at some point we'll get the leadership right and and once we get those the leadership right those potentials we start to become real assets and we start to create value but now everybody I mean I don't want to go political we all know the reasons why we have some of these misplaced priorities when you look at the most expensive project that is currently being run by the government there's a conflict of clear case of conflict of interest so what are we talking about anyway it's okay We all be fine.
>> We'll be well.
>> Thank you.
>> Thanks, guys. Yeah, we will. I think it's been a fantastic uh session. We've spent give or take I would say about two hours n two hours just talking about around Nigeria and the issues around um debt. You know, the whole space is basically tagged is it debt sustainable?
I I I would say it's not because there are some external things that going to come into play that might affect Nigeria, especially the peace in Iran.
If that happens and that holds, that reduces our ability to earn higher price crude oil earnings. That's going to be a major issue for Nigeria. We haven't grown or taking advantage of the revenues from Iran, the homeless closure. Now it's sort of going to go away. So we're going to go back to the $60 $70 barrel price of crude oil. But the most trouble is the productivity inside Nigeria. We still have no guaranteed power supply 24/7 even 12 hours guaranteed. We don't have that. We have no safety of lives and property and inflation has ticked up because of humus hopefully comes back down but we still don't have asurances of supply of basic goods and services in Nigeria. These are not good things and this will not make an economy productive. When an economy is not productive, it can borrow its way and say use that borrowing to cover the cracks in the economy. This is what we're doing in Nigeria. We've got to get busy and start to know utilize this ability to borrow in a better way. I think that's what this is all about.
We've shown the numbers numbers back us up that we are entering into a debt trap. Our debt sensibility ratios are very very low at the moment. So it behooves on the government and the citizens to keep on asking questions.
For the folks that went to the World Bank space and put comments there. You guys are patriot. Don't let anybody tell you anything. You guys took your time to buy data and to ask the World Bank question and the World Bank should have answered you. You should have said this is why we are learning to Nigeria. This is what we are seeing to shut down the space. You are you are the taxpayer. You are going to repay the taxes not the government. So if you ask a question, people who should answer you. Don't let anyone gaslight you. You are asking real questions. What's the debt going to be used for? If you don't get answers, you should ask more. So I commend you guys for doing that. And I just hope that the government understands that we want Nigeria to succeed.
Everybody wants Nigeria to succeed.
Everybody. But we need to have, you know, there has to be a carry along and to understand that not everybody's going to praise you, but we all want the country to succeed. On that note, guys, we're going to back here next week. We have a lot to talk about, guys, on investing a lot. This week, we're hearing IPOs. I'm hearing Dangote IPO.
I've done the numbers. H guys, let me put it this way. How do I put it this way?
A a speedboat can go very fast and can turn very fast.
A big oil tanker can't go very fast.
can't turn very fast. If you are buying Dango to be very very clear what you're buying. We're going to have to have a space on Dango to refiner. I want to bring this one. I'm just going to have a space on Dango to refinary IPO. But remember if Dangot refiner is paying dollars that means you want to compare Dangote with of course SpaceX and Tropic Open AI they're all going to be out they're all going to pay dollars so Dang is longer a local player he's not international which means we have to compare him with what the yield is going to be I hear people saying whatever happens I'll buy Dangote that's not a good analysis we have to look at the numbers that we're going to buy but next week let's see what we're going to do see if we can bring some out talk we don't have numbers out yet but we can still have a talk one more and just see where we're going on that. So that's what I'm working on apart from the other things we work around. Right. All right guys, thank you so much for hanging out here. My name is Ku A. I do appreciate you guys. Uh YouTube is going to be recorded. You can go back and watch it.
This is going to be recorded also on a podcast. So you can go back and watch it. If you want to buy a gift for someone for summer, get my book, Let's Talk About Your Money. It's available on Amazon. Great gift. Personal finance, investing, and the economy. All in there for you to read and enjoy. Thank you so much for all the folks that have tuned in to comment. I appreciate you guys and I will see you guys later on in the next week. Have a good one and bye.
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