PB Fintech Ltd Q4 FY2025-26 Earnings Conference Call

Added: 2026-05-11

[00:00:01]A very good evening everyone uh and a very warm welcome to PB Fintech Limited earnings conference call for quarter 4 and full year financial year 2016. Today we have with us Mr. Yashid Dya chairman and group CEO of PB Fintech Mr. Alok Bansil executive vice chairman PV Fintech Mr. Saravir Singh joint group CEO of PV Fintech Miss Santo Shagar CEO Pasa Bazarad Mr. Mandep Mahhata group CFO PB Fentech and myself Mohit head of investor relations PB fintech. I now request Yashish for his introductory m.

[00:00:36]Uh thanks very much Moit. Uh hi everyone. Uh before I just start giving you the numbers which some of you may have already seen because the press release uh went out an hour and a half ago. Uh see we we spent the last two three months just thinking a little harder about various data points etc. And one of the things interesting pieces that we came up uh with came came out with was that when you look at health insurance data over the last 10 years that we have had customers who joined us 10 years ago and we explore that data more deeply only 5% of these lives only 5% if 100 customers bought insurance 10 years ago only five of them used a claim more than once another about eight or 10 used the claim claimed once and the rest never claimed for 10 years. And I won't take a long time. The remaining 85 odd customers you're talking about and that represents about 67% of all insurance policies have no customer who has ever claimed for the last 10 years and have been paying premiums for a 10-year period.

[00:01:46]Those 67 do not interact with anybody.

[00:01:49]And usually the one who's responsible for bringing these customers into the insurance fold is some kind of mandation. So if you look across the insurance industry, you will usually find customers buy products when they are mandated.

[00:02:02]But otherwise, it's a very difficult job to bring this 67% of policies into the insurance fold to pay premiums year on year without claiming for a single year over a 10-year period. And this is the job that is entrusted to the insurance industry. And I think this is the part every time somebody wakes up in the morning and tries to compare health insurance and term insurance with any other product in the uh like a mutual fund or even the insurance savings products etc. I think they make this mistake that this 67% actually is not going to claim at all. Anyways, I'll stop there. But that is our job and that is what policy bazar really really specializes at at bringing in that 67% of people who are not going to claim because without that please appreciate that 5% of lives will simply not be able to afford their situation because even over a 10-year period their claims ratios at a life level is almost 7800%.

[00:03:00]At a policy level it is about 300%. So they cannot afford these policies, right? They cannot afford their healthcare without the insurance policy.

[00:03:09]Coming to the results, uh we grew 42% yearonear uh to almost 30,000 crores. Uh I wish it was 30,000 crores, but it's 29,934 crores. Uh led by new protection premium which grew at 57 uh% yearon year. Uh and the PAT is at 670 crores which represents 2.2% 2% of our premium.

[00:03:35]Now for the full year, our uh insurance premium obviously grew at 42%. Uh but for the quarter, it grew at 46% year on year. So what I'm trying to say is as we get towards the end of the year, this the speed has increased a little bit.

[00:03:52]uh the core online insurance premium is up 39% for the year and the new protection premium is up 57% for the year. However, when you look at the same numbers on the quarter, they are 44% and 67% each. This obviously the fact the last two quarters were somewhat faster growth bodess well as we go forward. And also because the savings business came out of a low cycle, you're starting to see some higher growth.

[00:04:22]The lending dispersal is also clearly in the positive territory. Now we are up 11% yearon year.

[00:04:29]Overall at the financials, the operating revenue is 6794 crores. The operating uh revenue for the quarter is just about 2,000 crores.

[00:04:42]the new uh the overall protection business was up for the year 57% health at 68%. So even in this you know uh 67% year on year story has continues to be slightly ahead of the of the of the pack which is a you know positive sign but term is catching up fast and as we look into the new year term is certainly going to be challenging health for the overall year the consolidated operating profit uh operating revenues grew 37% I think we've given you all these numbers when we look at uh you know our core renewal revenues as I explain why the quarter is doing better and why we feel confident about the financials for the coming years. As I said in the past, our renewals is a large contributor to our uh you know future growth of profits. Uh but that has gone up for the last 12 months rolling from 668 crores to 935 crores up to 67 crores and for the quarter this is at an ARR of 1126 crores up from 689 crores. So that's a growth of 63% yearonear and this is one of the key drivers not the only driver I must emphasize that the new business is also contributing to increasing profits and doing so very handsomely.

[00:06:02]The second part is the growth has been obviously accelerating. So as we said net of savings we look at one thing which is net of savings. Over the last few years we've been in the 30 to 40% range uh mostly around 35%.

[00:06:16]But this quarter we were at 59% yearonear that is basically savings coming into growth territory again. Uh and including savings we were at 48% yearon year for the quarter for the new insurance premium. So again, new versus renewals. Renew is still outgrowing uh renewals.

[00:06:36]Uh and new health is outgrowing everything else. We continue to improve our customer onboarding and claim support and the insurance sees is now consistently above 90%. Even our pesa bazar sees which used to be at about 72% has finally reached about 90%, which is a very positive turn. Our credit revenue is up 7% yearonear and the dispersal is up 11% yearonear. However, I must emphasize PESA has made very significant difference in the last one year in terms of the stability of its supplier base, in terms of the service that we provide as a platform. We are no longer just a redirection platform. We are increasingly an end-to-end platform and in terms of its customer service. So, the core reasons why our business exists, it has improved remarkably on.

[00:07:23]Obviously, our new initiatives as you've seen have continued to do well. We our eida is at minus 4% with a 5% contribution margin. We've grown at 43% yearon year. However, I must emphasize new initiatives is no longer I don't know why we call it new anymore. It's about 3 four years old. They are okay. I'll speak a little slower. So they uh the new initiatives is now growing pretty much at the same pace as the other businesses. So there is nothing very specific about the growth rate here. PB partners has 450,000 advisors and it is the most diversified business.

[00:08:00]Uh 99% of the pin codes in the country are covered. Our UAE business grew 54% yearonear. They have built their strength on the basis of crossborder health insurance and life insurance products as well as the claims assurance program. Again learning from a policy bazar in India and taking those learnings there and applying them beautifully.

[00:08:21]the uh consolidated uh uh pat as I said drew uh yeah I've already said all this to summarize you know once in a while it helps to look uh back at November 21 and now where we are our revenue has grown at a k of 48% over this period over the last uh four five years and our pat has grown from minus 58% to plus 10% in the full year of 2026 I'll stop there and uh take questions Go ahead.

[00:09:02][clears throat] >> Uh, hi everyone. May I now request you know to ask your questions.

[00:09:16]>> Hi Sachin, please go ahead. Thanks Mohit. Uh congrats management on one more time a great set of results. Uh I have a few questions. First question want to understand a bit more on what's driving the new insurance premium growth. It's as has around 59% yi in this quarter. Any color on some of the drivers in terms of the product mix uh volume growth and so on so forth and more importantly how could we think about this growth in coming years?

[00:09:49]Sir Bill.

[00:09:51]>> Yeah, sure. So, Sachin, I think um the drivers of new insurance premium growth remain the same. I think uh health has been growing fairly rapidly. Uh there was a little bit of a bump up that we got after September. I think after GST uh in the last quarter also if you saw we we did grow uh I think quite strongly and in this quarter also that growth continued. Uh and I think it's on the basis of two three things. One is uh a superior product proposition. We have modular products which allow us to segment the market and you know produce the most appropriate product for every person whether you are young, old, you have pre-existing diseases, you're a non-resident Indian etc. The second thing on the health side that we provide is a superior claims experience. I think increasingly the confidence that both our sales advisors and the customer who's coming to policy bazar have in this proposition that if you buy from policy bazar the chances of getting a claim become higher and higher closer to 100%. I think this proposition is beginning to take uh root and I believe there is this story has a long way to go because you know as you can imagine this is the most important issue. I think on the term side in Q4 we had a great quarter. I think the team has been bringing things together and I think they all sort of came together in Q4. Uh there was a little bit also that last year the fourth quarter was not as strong. So you know the comparison was also a little bit favorable. Savings as Yashish mentioned had not uh you know had we had a little bit of a tough last three four quarters starting from Q4 of last year. So we returned back to growth. In fact, savings would have had an even better quarter in Q4 except that in March because of the situation in the Gulf, etc. The non-resident business, you know, definitely took a little bit of a hit in that uh in that way. And the other businesses, motor two-heer, you know, travel of course was a little soft, but motor two-wheeler continued to grow. So, I think overall all the businesses I would say contributed. Uh the drivers are the same. We got a little extra in Q4 uh in health term and to some extent in savings.

[00:11:58]>> And in terms of steady state growth, what could be the growth one could think about?

[00:12:04]>> We we always guide about 30%, we always beat that guidance.

[00:12:09]>> Okay. Fair point. [laughter] Okay. Uh second question, Yashish, you know, your presentation does mention a lot on uh AI in terms of uh PBI operating system. It's used across different functionalities right from a risk to claims and to everything. Any way to quantify the margin benefits we could see on the back of AI implementation not immediately maybe from a medium-term perspective the benefits of AI on the revenue and cost.

[00:12:36]How could one think about that?

[00:12:39]>> I think Sachin the best way to think about it is that we are not actually right now if you ask me in the stage where one is trying to optimize for cost and you know margin etc. I think right now we are in a stage where we want to make sure that we are leveraging AI in the best possible way and we've tried to give you a flavor for that which is to say that we are focused on increasing right now the productivity of our sales team of our customer service team of making sure that our customers can get an amazing experience when they come to the platform. So I think right now the focus is on these things uh and you know obviously we are trying a lot of experiments to you know see beyond this also on the frontier kind of stuff. So the idea I would say from a outside perspective is to make sure that we are doing all these things and delivering and you can see that you know conversions have been going up uh uh quarter on quarter year on year it's always very hard to break it down as to how much is due to AI how much is due to other things but I would say overall what is uh gives us optimism and hope for the future is that we I think all our teams it's no longer you know few people using AI or something entire company is on it and lot of organic you know things are coming up and we can see the productivity going up exactly what will happen 3 years from now 5 years from now I think you know that remains to be seen my view is that over the long term you know these things adjust so the main thing for us remains to drive fresh growth uh so I if you ask me the structure of the P&L I think is in if I could say it myself is in pretty good shape the main thing now is that we must continue to drive fresh growth bring new customers to the insurance industry and you know service them well that's really our focus so I'm not sure we're looking at this as some kind of margin driver, you know, going forward. Is that fair?

[00:14:26]>> No, no, that's a fair that's a very fair statement. And as you think about AI and I'm not just talking about policy bazar, but also the insurance industry, I think the biggest use case in the insurance industry is going to be risk not efficiency. I think we are uh as as a people more focused on the efficiency part but the but the insurance industry is actually not about distribution, it's actually about claims and it's about cost of claims and underwriting and all those things. uh but and and we like I just give you an example that only 5% five out of 100 people who bought an insurance policy 10 years ago have ever made more than one claim. Now obviously the next thing we want to know is okay how do we identify those five before they become those five right because that's that's appropriate pricing and of course AI is going to help a big time in that now at the point of claim identifying uh you know whether a claim is right or I think that is the immediate and the most critical use case the second use case is more about building our capability as people and I think uh the answer is is spot on our priorities not for one year or two years but for a I would say the next five years and hopefully much longer is growth and customer excellence. See those of you who see us from the outside in and maybe compare us to an Amazon or something might feel like oh what's so great about this customer excellence but the moment you compare it to the industry dynamic and what and the complexity of the industry I think we are phenomenal in customer excellence and we have a very long way to go in that so those two are the primary drivers and as long as we keep driving on that I think everything else will fall in place.

[00:16:00]>> Got it. Very clear. Uh third question Yashish is on the growth and the new opportunities. Clearly when we look at the kind of cash flows PB fintech is going to generate in coming years it's pretty huge. U so when you think about growth and new opportunities what are some of the areas of investments either in the current business or adjacencies we are looking and a relating relative question is PB health clearly is in the market to look to raise money. Uh is PB fintech looking to invest in the next round?

[00:16:30]uh so on both of them today uh we are not exploring either as a board or I can tell you as a management any other growth opportunity we have not come across any in the last 3 months uh and we are not actively looking at anything and we've not even discussed anything uh and I'm not even saying at a board level even at a management level uh number two uh you asked about PB health uh yes PB health is going to be raising capital they will be close to that they have not come to polic to PB Fintech to raise capital yet.

[00:17:03]>> Okay. But you know there remains a possibility PB fintech might invest in PB Health at some point >> that that has to come to the board and when it comes to the board yeah PB fintech might consider it. It might it will it has the right to do a pronator.

[00:17:15]It has about 26 28% shareholding. It has a right to maintain that.

[00:17:20]>> Got it. And a last question I would say is you know any incremental uh discussion on any cap on commissions or tighter commission regulation as you know this was all around in media around 3 to four months back but uh as of now there appears to be no news flow on this topic.

[00:17:37]>> No no there's news flow even today the media is much more active than either the regulator or the insurance industry.

[00:17:44]So nobody else knows only the media knows.

[00:17:51]All right. Uh >> and I think earlier you had only one now you have two three of them competing with each other for the same news flow.

[00:17:58]>> But nothing from the regulator on this topic. Right. Basis your discussion with the regulator.

[00:18:02]>> I haven't seen anything. Neither have any of the insurance companies seen anything. [clears throat] >> Got it. Very clear. And all the best for future. Thank you.

[00:18:09]>> I don't think most of the people in the regulator have also seen anything.

[00:18:11][laughter] Only the media has seen it.

[00:18:14]>> Thanks. Yes.

[00:18:16]>> Thank you. Thank you Sin.

[00:18:19]No look look I think uh what we hear I have to be a little less jovial about it a little little more it doesn't mean that we don't track what we track is I believe there are two different conversations that go on actually multiple conversations that go on one conversation that's been on in the life insurance industry is about some form of deferred revenues uh we have we we don't want to participate in that debate uh we are very positive about it if that happens that's a very very good thing for us.

[00:18:49]The the second conversation that goes on is some kind of you know uh lower EOM structure uh in uh in the health insurance industry. Once more we welcome it. Uh if it happens we have no kind of comment to offer on this. Uh the remaining conversations that you hear we only hear from the media. Honestly we actually don't hear it from uh the regulator.

[00:19:14]>> Fair point. Thank you.

[00:19:16]Thank you. Uh we will take the next question from the line of Dan Karote from Ex.

[00:19:35]>> Hello.

[00:19:37]>> Hi. Thanks for the opportunity and uh congratulations the whole team for once again delivering uh above expectation numbers. Uh first question is on uh the margins. Uh if you can help us break down the core uh business margins, I see this 25% uh meaning if Vesa Bazar has has has turned around this quarter um then does that mean u how does the YI margin look in the insurance business?

[00:20:04]Basically, if you could break down the margin movement in Pesa Bazar and and and the core insurance business.

[00:20:10]>> Well, I don't think we get into that level of detail. Uh I don't know if we've done that historically.

[00:20:14]uh so we will uh simply avoid it. Uh both are both are doing well at the contribution level. Both are doing well.

[00:20:25]Uh and both are quite similar now at the contribution level. Yeah. Maybe maybe insurance a little better.

[00:20:31]>> Has Pesa Bazar turned around on EIDA? Is it positive or or is it uh >> so Pesa Bazar on an operating basis is is positive on Abida this quarter and honestly internally at least we expect it to be significantly positive next year. So we actually expect quite a strong year from PAS I don't know Satoshi if you want to speak a bit about it.

[00:20:54]>> Yeah I think right now Coro I think the contribution margin is uh healthy and at anita level it is still minuscule I would say very small. I think this financial year but it's positive >> it's positive of course this financial year I think we should make a lot of progress and >> I think we're seeing growth every quarter that that's all I would say but for it to be meaningful I think it's it's a while away >> so in in pasab only if I could double click uh and maybe uh you know Sasha if you could help her see the the main issue is has been that our fixed cost base is roughly in that range of 200 crores plus minus I don't know the exact number but uh the revenues uh unfortunately ely have been facing some downward pressure whether it's credit card issuances or whether it's um even the the take rates in in in unsecured right there is industry is having a lot of channels uh that are doing that of course pesa has has its mode but there is a take rate directionally that that's getting compressed so where do you see that delta uh coming from uh and then again while you are building new businesses does it mean uh it's not uh adding up indirect costs uh on on the balance sheet >> see you you rightly mentioned the numbers so the cost number are roughly similar right they have stabilized and I think what what we will see the same is operating leverage because of that so the fixed cost adoption will be better and as we scale the margins will the the pat margins will emerge that's what we expecting in this uh financial year we are starting a few new initiatives but those will not add to incremental cost so I don't see the cost side increased too much as the revenues scale the margins will improve and and ma'am is the credit uh renewal uh revenue improving or or that continues to struggle a little bit because of what has happened in cards.

[00:22:42]So largely pesa is a origination revenue but his renewal revenue is little not too significant. So most of what you see is one time origination revenue.

[00:22:53]>> So in fact Jant we are moving away from so there was I I know what you mean by renewal revenue is what you what we used to receive up to one two years ago. We still receive some component of that but that's becoming less and less important.

[00:23:05]We are more and more focused on upfront payments rather than renewal revenue.

[00:23:08]However, as we move towards the savings business, some of it will appear. But honestly, you're probably from a revenue perspective and a meaningful revenue both at PB Fintech and even Pesabadar level, you're probably talking not the next two years from a renewal revenue of of that.

[00:23:23]>> Great. Great. And last question is on on this whole uh uh while while I know there is no uh consultation paper that is out there uh but one hypothetical question to you Yashis if if at all there is some uh take rate reduction we operate at a blended between 16 to 18 if if there is the 5000 bips the only question is how much can we manage costs basically these agents are are very lean right >> I'll I'll give you all the very very straight answer as I see it and you either accept it or don't accept it. See if we were an insurance company if policy bazar was an insurance company and I'm talking about health insurance because as I explained you have to break this up right PSP what happens honestly doesn't matter to us you know whether I say it or not we we we do that business for different purposes growth and whatever defensive play etc etc right but in the core business if we talk about it uh if you if you look at life I think whatever happens we will benefit because whenever you have deferral of uh you payments the larger more consolidated players benefit because they are the ones who can play that game out very well. I think uh the story everybody may be worried about is health and so let me address that if policy bazar was an insurance company our total costs and the claims paid out on our book and when I'm looking at a fully loaded delayed book are less than 80%.

[00:24:52]There is no insurance company in the country who can compete with that. So all I'm saying is we have the most profitable book in the industry by a 20% delta from the rest of the industry.

[00:25:04]So there that 20% profit will go somewhere whether to us or to the insurance company and it will be a fair outcome right between us and the insurance players. How? You have to trust us. It can always take us three months, six months to put that uh in place but that will come in place whether it comes through whichever mechanism it comes through whether from a reinsurance whether from a reinsurance broker whether from a JB whether from whatever mechanism it comes through but it will come through I also explained to you and I think you guys should start catching the clues of what I'm trying to give.

[00:25:38]We know the 95% of customers who are not claiming so I just leave it there. So I know the part of my book which is operating at you know less than 10% claims ratio. It is visible to me. Those customers deal with me every year at every renewal. I'll stop there. You can just imagine the kind of situation.

[00:25:55]>> This is this is as clear I think.

[00:25:57]>> Please please don't worry about my 16%.

[00:25:59]I take the 16% because I only want to take 16%. It's not because I can only get 16%. It's I'll I'll park it there.

[00:26:08]>> No this this is very helpful actually.

[00:26:10]Sorry, just what I was asking was uh on the agent side, right? we have u uh essentially how much do you think we can pass on to the uh telephone I mean the tele agent network with the AI also coming in can we offset basically I was trying to say even if we were to take 30 40 bips can we can we offset that through more IVR and and teley agent pass on is is that a right thought process or I shouldn't be thinking >> Jant I just want to be very upfront with you it's not like that we are today not trying to be more productive because we are getting paid extra right [laughter] I mean our teams are seriously working hard and we will not leave anything I mean it doesn't matter whether the commission goes up or down we want to be more productive so yes I understand where you're going I think yes was trying to indicate that the economics very much support the take rate that we get and we leave significant profitability for our partners also so hopefully as things work out and depending on where they go I think it's kind of speculation is not required. Wherever we end up, we have a very high probability of being able to manage the economics. I think that's what the message we're trying to give you. But I do want to assure you that we are making every effort every day to be more productive and reduce cost whether through AI and all other you know routes available to us.

[00:27:35]>> Great. Great. Thanks a lot and congratulations once again to the whole team uh for the great success.

[00:27:41]>> Thank you. Thank you chair.

[00:27:44]We will now take the next question from the line of Deepan Go from city.

[00:27:52]>> Hi hope I'm audible.

[00:27:55]>> Yes you are audible.

[00:27:57]>> Hi. Uh so just few questions from u my side you know first uh you know when I look at the evolution u of policy bazard I mean from insurance and pasa now pension in your presentation you have mentioned about PB marketing your intention to get into even stock broking if I'm not wrong you mentioned in the presentation you're applying for AR and license for MF you know when I um look at the landscape uh the way it is developing and some of you listed peers or even unlisted peers uh it seems all of you would start um you know becoming a digital native platform for distribution of all sorts of financial products or most sorts of financial products. Now there are two questions.

[00:28:36]One is uh how do you really differentiate yourself from others maybe not today but let's say 5 years out uh and second is uh you know in terms of uh leveraging your existing customer base whether it's policy or pesa uh for this uh new product classes or kind of cross-selling uh what sort of data sharing practices are there or I mean can you can you really do that I mean can you how do you really leverage the existing customer base uh my second question um is on uh uh is on uh PB connect uh the uh physical leg of the lending business uh it seems that the volumes were uh quite low compared to last quarter. So uh is there any change in strategy on that business? And my last question is on the uh on the on the insurance business and PB uh on the POSP business on the insurance side uh uh not the PSP I mean basically the physical leg of the business on the core insurance side uh in terms of you deploying uh manpower in 200 plus cities. I just wanted to understand in terms of capacity uh that you have currently uh to service and the product mix or margin profile uh how do you really look at the uh digital business versus a core online business? I mean over a long term will there be any difference in the margin profile?

[00:29:55]>> Sure. No, thank you. Uh first of all uh we have two businesses uh at in in policy bazar. One is policy bazar and one is pesaw bazar. And a lot of what you mentioned actually applies to pesa bazar. So I'll pass that on to a policy bazar stays extremely focused on one problem and it's a very very deep problem and I don't think anybody else is trying to solve that problem which is solving for social security of the middle class which implies protection against death disease disability and old age which can be pensions. So there are basically four products required and I've always said that health I'm becoming a bit like Trump saying the same thing. I always said it always said it. No, should not say that. So, health term, uh, pensions and waiver of premium.

[00:30:46]Waiver of premium is basically uh, you know, in case something bad happens. If you invested in a mutual fund, you only get the three months you've invested for, but if you've died and you know uh, you get the way. So, these are the four products, right? And that that goes for child education. So, these are what policy bazar is focused on. Pesa bazar and uh, the the future that it wants to build. I will just pass on to Santo to explain before I go there maybe sabi can cover the insurance physical versus online I know there's no difference but yeah >> so again just to be very clear the pan that the person comes to our platform and either the same person who is speaking to them on the phone goes to visit them or they pass on they make an appointment and one of their colleagues who in that city goes to meet the uh customer. So there is the journey is exactly the same. It's just the fulfillment which is physical. It's about 25% right now of our uh savings, term and health business on app if you just looked at together. Uh it has been growing uh quite rapidly but so as the rest of the business so the percentage you know grows very very slightly every every quarter every year. Now as far as the economics of the business are concerned they are actually very very good because as you can imagine the lead cost is the same. Now we're getting extra conversion from that lead right we have spent money to get the customer now we're getting extra conversion from that. So that conversion of course comes at a very I would say very high contribution margin. The biggest challenge that we have been working on from day one is the quality of the business because suddenly you we have a situation where you are not on a recorded line etc etc. So we do verification calling we focus you know from a cultural perspective to ensure that our team understands the importance of quality etc. So I think the skill that has been built the first skill to be built was how to manage a physical workforce which I think our team now has got pretty good at. The second skill that we have built is how to manage the quality of that sales so that there is no deviation because you know all the things that we tell you about the quality of business at policy bazar is one of the key ingredients and that is measured in terms of you know claim settlement rates loss ratios in terms of persistency and renewal rate. These are the clear metrics which tell you whether the quality is good or bad and all I would say all four of them are at all-time highs right now. So so far it appears that we are managing it well but it's something that we are very watchful about. I'll now pass on to Santosh and before I pass on to Santosh you know we have kind of not this is not a board approved thing but our idea is that Pesab Bazar goes on to list itself maybe in four years five years whenever but that's the whole idea to which the team is driving towards and I'll kind of pass on to Santos to kind of explain what her strategy for doing that is >> or not for doing that but yeah largely pessimazar has about 5.8 April consumers that is acquired till date uh a lot of credit you know and that almost represents 50% of the active credit Indians in India now how do you do more these consumers is basically the idea we are transitioning into becoming a more engagement platform than a one-time origination platform and uh you can of course do that through credit but you can also do that through savings people want you know both kind of products now to do the savings business we of was wanted to work both the bonds and mutual funds. So the stock broking license that you are talking about is a prerequisite for acquiring a bond license. So that is why you see that license being uh applied and uh bonds I think is a very good consumer product uh very efficient and a good fixed return product that consumers like we've uh done some initial experiment with you know partnering with the platform and seen some early success. So that gives us a lot of confidence that this area will really build and I think it's the right time to al also I think start this product in India today. It's it's a very new industry and uh you know there is some activity happening but I think we at the right time entering the space on the mutual fund side. It is an established industry. If you ask me really the right to win will be harder.

[00:35:03]But what we are attempting is instead of moving to a monthly SIP format, bringing in a daily SIP format and that can uh build a lot of engagement. It really you know improves I would say affordability people when you put in say even 100 rupees every day and when you see it compound over five years it can be a meaningful number. So I think that is the path of uh building the savings area. Of course, it'll take another 2 three years to actually flesh that out fully, but that will build a trail that's also, you know, building a recurring revenue stream. That's largely the idea of uh >> and and and a customer engagement.

[00:35:39]>> Yeah. And on PB connect, just to explain, we had two kinds of businesses.

[00:35:43]Uh so PB connect is basically just for everybody's sake. It's like the POSP of uh home loans. And in that we have two kinds of businesses. One is more focused at retail agents. So very very small micro agents and one is dealing with other agents who are large enough. So more like wholesale. We have decided to stop the wholesale business and that is why so it's a it's a decision that we've taken because we don't see any strategic value of that business. And uh because we decided to stop that you have seen a decline in the revenue. It has no impact on the overall profits like maybe we were losing 0.5 crores a month or something. So that 0.5 cr loss is gone.

[00:36:18]>> Got it. Uh thanks everyone and all the best.

[00:36:21]>> Thank you.

[00:36:22]>> Thank you Deepan. We will now take next question from the line of subrain data.

[00:36:27]Subrain please unmute your mic.

[00:36:33]>> Hi um thanks everyone for the opportunity. I'll start off on the policy bazar side. Uh so you know you have indicated that uh the fresh business growth has you know continued to remain very strong driven by protection. Just wanted to understand uh you know how are the customers that you're getting post September different to the ones before that? Uh is there a ticket size different? Is there a product um you know the kind of policies that they're taking? Is there a difference there? Uh just because you know that would be very important in extending this growth. Um so that that's the first bit. The second bit is on the um you know the uh the change you know how you're trying to expand the pesa bazar platform wanted to understand one on the mutual fund side would these be direct mutual funds that you're doing or would these be uh you know the regular mutual funds and then it seems like you're going you know towards a more of a distribution of wealth management uh kind of a setup um with you know bonds mutual funs funds. So wanted to understand that you know maybe 5 years out or you know 7 years out is that the ultimate aspiration that you want to be a kind of a wealth management platform for retail mass affluent customers you know that's the second bit and lastly on you know pass uh you know the PSP platform you have indicated that you are going for you know more granular smaller agents wanted to understand currently what is the proportion of these smaller agents you know be it in form of number of agents or contribution to premiums um and you know what was it you know maybe one year back or you know two years back so you know just some color you know how is that actually playing out um so those are my three >> question do you want to just explain the customers before September post September story >> so um so as you can imagine the customers are roughly the same but what has changed is the fact that one there was a lot of exposure to people about term insurance and health insurance because there was a lot of discussion during the GST time. However, what has happened post GST is that in health insurance for instance people are buying higher sum insured than they were buying earlier. So if you look at the proportion of policies below 10 lakhs and greater than 10 lakhs now vast majority of policies are being bought which are 10 lakhs and above in terms of some insured. So that has pushed up the ticket size somewhat and that is helping. uh there have also been a launch of couple of insurers have launched unlimited sumins inured products which are towards their pricing is around 25 lakh some insured type range. So those also have helped because now people are attracted by the fact that they can have unlimited sins insurance. So I think that is what has changed to some extent on the health side. On the term side the change has been again because the customer is seeing a 18% reduction because see prices have not changed on both health and term insurance. uh and what that has led to is that people are buying there the sum assured hasn't gone up by that much because you know people tend to think in bigger buckets like you think of 1 cr then 2 crores etc but people have been buying a little bit more of the riders so you know things like a critical illness rider their the attachment of that has gone up some of the accidental protection rider their attachment has gone up so I think that has changed uh you know post September but both of these changes are dwarfed a different chain which is the fact that our conversion rate has gone up. So for the people who are coming more of them are buying because I guess they are a little bit more uh aware about the value of insurance >> on the PSP before uh we move on sur obviously has has this data we just looked at yesterday 99.5% of the agents make less than about whatever they they are below uh well they are they less they make less than 20 lakh revenue in a year from us uh only 350 agents or so make more than that in terms of premium uh 83% of the premium comes from the small agents. Now if you look at the same number a year ago that would have been close to 50/50 in terms of premium.

[00:40:42]So I think our growth is despite the fact that we're cutting out a lot of the uh the the other part and it's actually reducing year on year but it's gone from about 50/50 to about 80 to 80 in terms of premium.

[00:40:57]>> Understood.

[00:40:59]>> In terms of regions 99.99 some percent.

[00:41:01]Yeah.

[00:41:02]>> Got it. And on the pesa bazar bit.

[00:41:05]>> Yeah. So on the pesa bazar side basically at this stage uh look we are a we're a lending company. Lending has certain advantages but it does not have engagement with the customer as much and the renewal stream becomes it's also a little uh you know every time there is a downward trend. So one of the things we've done is because every time there's a downward trend we used to get hurt. We have improved the quality of partners that we are operating with. See what we what we noticed over time was the larger banks, the larger institutions even in downtimes support their partners and maybe our efforts in that direction was lower in the past. We have put in additional efforts in those in that direction. So we've got more of those partners. Our end to-end journeys have increased. See in downtimes people and quality is something that we really focused on. So lending is going to keep doing well. I think you will see a very good year from Pesab Bazar. In terms of the long term, at this point, it's not very crystallized, but yes, you're right. We are going to do pretty much everything that anybody does to take care of our customer base and engage with them in more and more products and create more and more opportunities for them to visit us. So, there are various things we're doing. We're doing points, we're doing tokens, we're doing we will do mutual funds, we will do uh bonds and we will find our own space like we've done in everything else. Yeah, we were never a market leader when we started anything. We'll find our own space.

[00:42:29]Understood. And you know one last data keeping question. Can you split that 67% protection growth into how much is term and how much is health?

[00:42:39]>> Uh maybe a little little more in health than in term >> just >> yeah just just a little extra. So maybe >> both are very close.

[00:42:46]>> Very close. But yeah maybe maybe 35 32 if you want to have a number. Maybe something around that.

[00:42:52]>> 69 >> 67% growth. Oh that way. Oh, sorry. I thought uh no health is health is ahead.

[00:42:59]Health is ahead. We just want to stop there. We don't want to give out our exact health growth.

[00:43:04]>> It's quite high. It's interesting.

[00:43:07]>> Got [clears throat] it. Thank you.

[00:43:09]>> Thank you. Uh we will now take next question from the line of N towal from UDS. Nut [clears throat] your mic.

[00:43:23]>> Yeah. Hi everyone. Uh so first question is on uh on I think Ashish mentioned that there have been possible scenario of deferral in the life insurance uh in terms of you know uh commission. So just wanted to understand in such scenario uh what will the impact of different on revenue recognition and uh and the cost u which we incur how would that change >> so nj first of all I don't want to speculate on any scenario this is just what we hear in the market it might happen it might not happen all I'm saying is for us we find we've been asking the industry for this for the last 10 years that we would like to get paid on a deferred basis we we the ones who've been going and asking for it. So all I and I don't want to kind of add fuel to this fire by kind of um saying policy bazar has this view, policy bazar has that view. We'll just chill there.

[00:44:17]Yeah, that's all. I think I don't want to answer specific questions on what we will do with this deferral and all that stuff.

[00:44:23]>> Got it. And uh second is on PES.

[00:44:25]>> Actually I sorry I just want to I just want to explain because you know this is a very emotive topic and I think what yes is trying to say is that if you look at it on a persistency adjusted basis right we we are there it's not that what we get paid as would have a major impact if you were to defer it because of the persistency that our portfolio has.

[00:44:51]Having said that we are not necessarily you know we are okay both ways and whichever way in the wisdom whatever way is there we will cope with it but I think the point that he's trying to make is that because we have the persistency there is no it doesn't really affect us that much uh because of that but overall we are very happy with the current system and I would just want to say one more thing that life insurance contracts are 30 40 years especially in the case of term insurance so the way to think about it is not the first year commission should not be seen as divided by the first year premium. You have to look at it on a NPV basis over the life of the product. Obviously persistency adjusted. So when you do that then you'll actually find that especially in term insurance the the commission is not as high as people think it is.

[00:45:40]>> Commission is less than 5% here. That's the >> So that's kind of where we are and I think that's what we are trying to say.

[00:45:46]I I don't think we necessarily want to advocate one direction or the other direction. Yeah, we are certainly not participant in this debate of whether it should be deferred or not deferred >> and also you know see basically there's a PL part and there's a cash flow part.

[00:45:59]Now if you just look at the NDI accounting on P&L actually there should not be any impact whatever happens uh CAT there may be a small impact but we'll see when the rules have been come out and what sort of rules will >> definitely very very helpful on this uh the second is on PESA as we are mentioning that there's part of growth which you're expecting uh are we also deploying more resources and that could lead to some bit of higher expenses as well or are the cost base totally intact and only we can get this operating leverage from here How should one think about it?

[00:46:31]>> I think I'll let Santo answer it. I know the answer. But yeah, >> I think we'll see a lot of operating leverage. I think uh this year I think the costs are stabilized and I think the absorption of that will be much better.

[00:46:42]See as we improve scale and like Ish mentioned a lot of supply work has happened. Uh our conversions are going up. People are seeing more offers that can translate into actual dispersals. So th those rates have significantly improved and hence the scale will improve. with that you know I think uh from a cost perspective it should be roughly similar this year >> see on pesa I would just say and sto probably didn't say it because she's she's too nice uh compared to last year in terms of quality of business productivity of employees we are supremely high right now so for the same inquiry how much are we getting out we are supremely high uh I think we are at a point where we're not expanding employees for some time u and we think there is uh some uh leverage left for us to get maybe about 30% or so is something that we can get with the with the current employee base. Um but I'll just share one thing with you like last year if we looked at when Santosh took over the CEO position if we looked at how many of our employees were making incentives it was very very few because they were not operating at a very high quality. But today if we look at that that number is a lot higher and incentives is a higher percentage of their compensation because that's the way you can see if a sales team is driven or not. Incentives is a much higher percentage of their comp. I'm just you know they they're almost unbelievable because it has almost come to policy bizarre levels in in that respect that you know what percentage of your total compensation is variable and I think uh I I'll stop there I I'll let time you know rewards to rather than kind of me doing it in advance of time >> no that that is helpful Jashi and Sush the last bit on uh on this is secured dispersements have meaningfully dropped it's change of strategy or or the take rates are not favorable. So we are kind of you know pushing back on this.

[00:48:38]>> No, they have only dropped in one area which was wholesale POSP distribution which we were doing for one supplier.

[00:48:46]Look, it was not making strategic sense.

[00:48:48]We've decided not to continue that business. We stopped it in January. It takes 15 days to stop the business.

[00:48:52]After that we are not doing that business. It was a meaningful part of this uh of the home home loans part of the pesar revenue. Uh that's fine. It was kind of fluffy revenue in the sense it didn't really have profits. It would never make massive profits. It was Yeah.

[00:49:07]So, wholesale POSP is what we've stopped.

[00:49:09]>> Sure. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

[00:49:12]>> Everything else is up. [clears throat] >> Thank you, Niraj. Uh, next question is from the line of Manus Agraal from Bernstein. Manus, please unmute your mic.

[00:49:24]>> Thanks for the opportunity. Great momentum on operationally everything.

[00:49:28]Couple of strategic questions. I think we have discussed take rate extensively.

[00:49:33]The other thing that comes up in invest conversations is capital allocation. So are we in a position that we want to comment on use of money that is lying on the balance sheet and the acruals that we are expecting? That is one. The other is on PB health. Can you give an update on what operationally is happening on the ground? Because I may be wrong on this but I thought the investment last year was going to be a one-time investment. So if we are looking at a follow- on round as well would be good to know what is actually happening on the ground on that business. That's it.

[00:50:07]>> So there are there are multiple layers to uh PB Health but let's go with the uh hospital part. We've acquired one hospital which is an operating hospital makes about uh 20 30 crores of profit in a year. Uh does about 150 crores of revenue. Uh so that's that's operational and running in NOA. Our uh next hospital is to go live in the next few weeks. In fact, next week is the uh the sort of starting of it. By the by this month end it should be operational. That's in uh u in what do you call that? Gorgo, central Burgam. Uh we are uh getting into another hospital in Gura. There's another one we're looking in Delhi and we've also started looking outside of Delhi. So that's the hospitals part. On the second hand, there is uh something called PB care plus which is a network of uh basically our customers go to all hospitals. Today we are creating a preferred network of our of you know for our customers and that preferred network is about 500 hospitals strong. So for example if you had um uh cataract today across the country if you were our customer we would direct you towards Agraal I care because that is part of the PV uh you know care for care plus network. So uh that's happening now what you will see over time emerging from these two. The one you see is an absolute operation less of course operations is involved but it's the the entire hospital the healthcare is somebody else's responsibility we are only coordinating between our customer and the healthcare and the second is full-blown hospital development and and this is where you're seeing two parts now these will start to come together over the next one year where you will see O&M operations so of this 500 600 hospital network we will take on some of them and start operating them under the PB Health brand. I'll I'll stop there.

[00:52:01]Uh as I said, PB Health has no immediate requirement of cash. They have not even used 30% of the cash they had. Uh but they are in conversations where to raise capital. They are in late stage conversations and should they come to PB Fintech? PB Fintech will consider it. We will think about it. Uh but it has not come to PB Fintech yet and it may it may not. But maybe fintech has the right to invest up to its proator which it can decide. It can decide not to. It can decide to do it. It doesn't have the right to invest more than protonator.

[00:52:33][snorts] >> Understood. Anything on capital allocation, balance sheet, cash?

[00:52:41]>> I I'll explain. I'll explain over the last 3 months. Uh because see you're asking in a way I I've already said we've not had any discussion at the board level. So you're in asking okay what's in your head? So in our head at least once we've had a conversation about buybacks and dividends that's it I can just say that that's a divid that's a conversation it's not even gone to the board it's not even been discussed properly at the management level we don't know what we will do here we don't know right now but right now we don't really have a plan on what to do with the capital >> got it thank you [clears throat] >> thank you maners next question is from the line of nin ch from kak n Please unmute your mic.

[00:53:25]>> Uh yeah. Hi.

[00:53:30]>> Hi.

[00:53:34]>> Yeah. Uh I hope I'm audible now. Yeah.

[00:53:36]Uh yeah. Just uh you know two questions.

[00:53:38]one is uh you know can you give some update on what happened and how did the UAE business fare this quarter and is there a particular outlook uh you know on this business uh you know in the >> No absolutely absolutely I'm I'm amazed by those guys and I'll tell you why in fact uh you know I would have spoken about them in the beginning of the thing as I usually do about something amazing out there because you know if you really think about the bombing started kind of on 29th of Feb on 28th of Feb. on the 29th was they even there this month this year but it started at some point in March should have been a wash out month for them then about 5 days in AWS got knocked out and we were on AWS so just imagine the scenario 10 days we had the ability to do zero bookings our entire system is down and I I go there for the review like I usually do at the end of the month and I I'm trying to be encouraging about everything and they review the thing and they say we are 3% year on year I'm saying what the hell are you talking? How is that possible, right?

[00:54:41]And I was thinking that the competitor would have taken everything from them because the competitor was not on AWS and the competitor is not as much up. So boss all I'm saying is thankfully and I was explaining to the board also yesterday that while we're a public company and everything we somehow are very very driven and we have deep ownership in the company not not in terms of stocks but just in terms of deep ownership of the processes u and I just feel super proud about the situation >> and so I think they are in bad times uh we'll perform okay in great times we'll we'll really shine uh that's all I can say like you can't get worse than this, right? Your entire network is gone.

[00:55:22]You've been bombed and you still grow 3% year on year and stop there.

[00:55:27]>> Got it. Got it. Uh great. Uh the other one >> for the month for the quarter they are actually 10% or 12% up. So for so the for the obviously Jan Feb they were growing beautifully.

[00:55:36]>> Okay. Got it. Uh you know on the uh on on term and health uh you know we have seen a beautiful J curve post GST cuts.

[00:55:45]So and and if I if you look at the savings business it's I think at an industry level you know in in health for the last 13 quarters we have grown at 60% last year has definitely been there right okay 60% 60% growth over four years we do realize what that does here in terms of multiplications but you GST becomes the the GUP but yes term term I agree but you know term is not GST it's actually our guy here we got a very special guy who started to really make changes you know I said he's he's the he's the hire of the year for us but sorry sir I'm taking your thunder there's no thunder sorry go ahead >> yeah so the question so the question was actually on savings business you know what uh you know when do you see [laughter] >> so when do you see the similar J curve in savings business and and I think I think more from a broader industry point of view as well, right? I mean the life industry new business premiums have sort of stagnated at low double-digit levels.

[00:56:50]So you know what can the industry do or distributors do or what can the government do to nudge both the parties to kind of have a similar J curve uh in the savings business? I think uh Nish I I mean avoiding the use of the term Jacob I would say that uh savings for insurance we have to figure out what is the customer proposition because s see total amount of savings we can see the growth in SIP we can see the growth in you know mutual funds etc bonds everything so it's not that the total amount of savings in the country is a challenge I think this savings coming to insurance is definitely to some extent you can argue is is a challenge And I think the main thing is a customer proposition. And one of the things that we have always tried to do is to start from the customer rather than starting you know from what we want to sell. So many years ago when Santosh was leading the business she introduced a concept of a capital guarantee right where we said that your premium will be guaranteed you will ensure that we get your premium back and then you have upside in terms of the market. That was a innovation that did well. uh now we are trying to go to the next level where we are saying that the reason you should invest in a ULIP is that you at least have to be in the product for 5 years that's the you know the base term of the product obviously you can stay 10 15 20 years and we are saying that the reason is that you tie a goal to the investment it's not about it's not a frivolous thing that okay let me put some money into the market and see whe because there's a war going on or whatever it's a goal that you have one goal it could be child education, could be buying a house, could be you know your retirement. So these goals are serious goals for which you have to remain in the investment. That's what a ULIP really does well. Second, ULIPS have a feature which is called waiver of premium which means that should something happen to you the insurance company will continue to pay your premiums also pay out the summer short give a monthly income to your family. So here you have not just planned for the goal but you have protected the goal.

[00:58:51]And the third thing is that still ulips enjoy a tax advantage up to two and a half lakhs. So they are actually right now the best investment and within that two and a half lakhs tax advantage you also have the ability to switch from equity to debt. So it's the only debt product available in the country without having to pay uh tax on it. So there are three very big advantages of Ulys. I think we are going to promote this more and more. This is something that we have been doing even earlier but we are going to promote these uh things more and we believe that this will attract customers for the right reasons. See many times we forget that despite all the discussion about SIPs and mutual funds after 5 years the number of active SIPs is in you know the estimates vary from 3% to 11% or something. So we are still after 5 years in our ULIP the persistency is somewhere in the 70 to 75% range. So the customer that we are getting is a good customer. I think we just need to talk more about the advantages and it's not for me to say what the industry should do or not do but I do believe that all of us have to start from the customer and offer a proposition which is good for the customer.

[00:59:56]>> But do you think >> that's the first waiver of premium is a is a great proposition.

[01:00:00]>> Yeah.

[01:00:02]But but but do you think uh you know a meaningful change in commission, origination expenses, operating expenses uh you know EOM can kind of uh you know make the proposition much more attractive? I mean is that is that something that can trigger customers to you know buy more of savings products?

[01:00:18]See mission the our take rate on the ULIP side are probably the lowest take rates probably of the entire business that we do right because as you can imagine when you sell low cost ulip that too with you know waiver of premium type of feature there's not much that is left right we are giving actually everything to the customer so the products that we sell I don't think there is any you know story around commission in that because we don't take much commission the story for commissions is in other types of products that the industry sells and in those products yes the commission again because it's a first year commission can appear very high and things you know >> the customer the customer has no clue about that commission and quite honestly without distribution that industry would not be there or or with lower benefit so assuming nish quite bluntly uh in some product there is high commission and you say okay equate it to what policy vazar gets so suppose the entire industry's commission structure became for savings business the same as what policy bizarre makes on the savings business I think it would pretty much stop it'll probably be 2% of the industry left besides policy bazar but you know why should I make those statements right I think everybody who's smart can see those statements eventually and uh I that's why I when earlier uh you know danchan was asking that question I did not want to answer it because it's a speculative question which would never happen right um if it happens it's it's industry destruction not industry expansion in my opinion >> that that's that that's fair. Uh great.

[01:01:51]Thank you very much.

[01:01:51]>> This is not this is not this is not a mutual fund product. It's not something that the customer is saying I really want to buy this. I really want to invest in this. And that's why I'm saying Santosh started this business from scratch took it up to when we were doing 5,000 crores of this kind of business. Imagine what she will do when she actually gets the mutual fund product because she wanted to always sell mutual funds and she's finally there. So uh all I'm all I'm saying is that is a that is a much easier much more attractive product and as you know if you take take it on a aum basis eventually we make less than that also.

[01:02:25]>> Yes.

[01:02:25]>> So you know there's there's lots of existential questions around that part of the story.

[01:02:32]>> Got it. Got it. Thank you very much and all the best.

[01:02:34]>> Thank you Nishin. Next question is from the line of P Jen from Modilad. Pmute your mic.

[01:02:46]Yeah. Yeah. Hi. Uh just my question is again on the health insurance bit and a phenomenal growth journey growing for so many quarter at 60% plus. Uh uh post GST obviously we've seen some tailwinds coming in more tailwinds coming in. Uh just trying to understand more color of it. You know apart from uh you know new customers coming in and some assured increases that have happened is long-term policy also has picked up momentum because we keep hearing about um you know uh people kind of marketing about about a and we about a price hike that could come through and uh lock in of a price and probably a long-term policy and that is kind of also coming into your premium and uh uh driving the growth and related to that you know obviously We have seen a phenomenal growth in this year and in the second half of this year. Now do you think that a 30% growth on that high base is still achievable or what are your thoughts there? Yeah.

[01:03:47]>> So I'll I'll just explain the question that you asked in terms of uh the long-term policies for us long-term policy proportion of our premium has remained very stable between last year and this year. What has changed however is that some of the people are buying four five year policy. Traditionally in health insurance the highest term used to be 3 years. Now we have four and five year policy. So that proportion has increased but the overall proportion of people buying long-term policies or the premium you know on multi-year policies has not changed very much at least for us. Uh and I think again I just want to I think this question was asked on the last last call also. I just want to explain to you that there is no tricks in the business growth that we have achieved because it's been going on for 3 years now and and again no one can say whether it will remain at this rate for next year or not. I mean I don't think that's something we want to speculate about.

[01:04:39]>> I think you can say but >> yeah I I don't want to say it. uh I would say that the thing to focus on is the fundamentals that the fact that we have the segmentation of customers we have the products for those appropriate products priced correctly the fact that we have a trained well-trained sales team which has tools you know now increasingly using genai etc and then we have the service and claims experience I cannot stress enough that the service and claims experience is the keys to a kingdom everybody buys insurance policy for that rainy day when something will happen and I think when you show up on that day and they're able to get the claim that changes the equation and honestly the feedback that we are getting shows that we are making progress not just see one is a seesat and all those kind of numbers but the other is to see the anecdotal feedback so to my mind those are the building blocks and it's not that we are selling more multi-year this year versus last year etc etc none of that stuff is happening >> now a large number of customers who have not bought from us are coming to us saying please just help us at the point of claim because whoever sold it to us or whichever it's it's yeah so we are that is becoming a massive USP and [clears throat] I think Sarah is has been my senior and is very careful always he's you know learned what the right t right things to say uh I'm I'm okay to just say what I feel uh next year growth no problem we will beat last year >> okay and the so what we will do is in one year we will give the growth of what we promised in two years. We promised 30% growth in two years. We'll give that growth in one year.

[01:06:17]>> Oh, amazing.

[01:06:19]>> Yeah. The other question was on a claims bit. You know, the physical support that you offer on uh um on claims with you know people on the ground in hospitals uh helping helping customers settle the claims. What is the kind of penetration that we have in the country today and uh how do you kind of see that increasing and the span increasing over the next few years?

[01:06:41]I think P if I'm right we are at 248 cities uh and uh you know I think there are two things that are going on one is this 248 may go up a little bit but that's not really the story anymore the story now is actually shifting towards this PB care plus that Yish mentioned where there is the preferred network and if you go to that network you will get preferential treatment right so the cat example that we discussed the customer is because it's a planned procedure. The customer is taken straight to their room. The procedure is done. You know, depending on how much time they have to stay, they then go home. Again, no billing desk, nothing. So, what we are trying to do is to create this, you know, totally red carpet type of experience. There will be a PB person in that hospital etc. So, combination of technology and operations and I think you know the experience will be at next level. So, that's what we are really trying to do today. If you have the policy with our app, you can consult a doctor 24/7. So we have worked with all our insurance partners to offer this service to our customers. So you can consult a real doctor, you can call an ambulance. So I mean the whole story is changing from just even physical presence in cities to presence in hospitals and you know giving just a amazing experience uh to the to the customer >> and p if you look at the data and I'll just take one minute on this there are basically two segments of there three segments of customers but there on the corners there are two segments of customers a very small percentage that are regular claims and or uh and there's a there's a large percentage that never claims I think as we look at the next five years or so what we have to do to give something back to the non-claimers also whether that comes in terms of maternity cover whether that comes in terms of uh you know some gym access some wellness benefits etc somewhere we have to sweeten the deal OPD benefits we have to be able to sweeten the deal for them because right now they're getting nothing right so young people etc coming in are getting nothing and as we talk about the people who are regular claims we have to bring them into participation and please understand you know right now participation is hated as a word but participation can be in terms of copay can be in terms of limited networks can be in terms of tiered networks, various things. But without this participation, please appreciate the cost is going to become you know we're not doing this out of joy. We're doing this out of necessity. The cost will become unsustainable for the for the industry.

[01:09:03]So those are the two things that we have to work on. Make it better for the people who do not claim so that so more and more of them come and get something out of it and make bring participation from the regular claims because without that it won't be sustainable and and the and the participation they're very few to work on. Sorry any mute question any other question about >> that last one bit on um uh so you know yes you were rightly mentioning right the new initiatives have been existence for uh some years now and they're no longer new initiatives and scaled up beautifully uh so you know if we start bucketing new initiatives like what we've spoken about in pasab bazar u you know what would be those in terms of say 5 years out do you think that these could be say about 10% of your uh revenue revenues in like 5 years out.

[01:09:52]>> Sorry, uh I I missed that. Do you want to answer that?

[01:09:56]>> No, it's about the new initiatives, new new initiatives. How much?

[01:10:00]>> Yeah, I think I think new new initiatives will will come. There are new things happening already. Whether we talk about embedded insurance, whether we talk about the savings business, whether we talk about home loans business, there are new things happening constantly. PB care plus, PB Wheels, PB pay. So there's new things happening. See the if you look at the new initiatives where the big revenue impact come from it came from POSP. POSP is like wildfire. You can expand that business very rapidly and doing it with the right quality is hard and that is what our team is doing has been doing for the last three years.

[01:10:34]They're building it with the right quality. So uh I think that kind of growth coming from a single level is not going to be that easy. Uh but we'll see.

[01:10:44]We always stay open all the time. There are three four new things we are doing.

[01:10:47]The reason we are we are still calling them new initiatives and not old we don't want to confuse the market by kind of just combining them and stopping you know disclosure around how much is what that's all it's just for disclosure purposes nothing more than that the growth rates are very similar now >> then that's super helpful thank you >> thank [clears throat] you pre we will now take the last question from the lineup from Aventes pankit please unmute your mic >> uh thanks uh so so my first question is on the contribution margins of the new initiative is coming down a bit. Uh actually for last eight quarters it has been steadily improving means we see a dip in the current quarter. Anything audio is not very clear.

[01:11:32]>> Okay. Is it better by any chance?

[01:11:35]>> It is better. Yes.

[01:11:36]>> Uh uh so so my first question was on on on the contribution margin of the new initiatives which is uh which is seeing a bit of decline after eight consistent quarters of improvement. So, so anything to read there 4.3% seems to be lower compared to 5.7 what you reported last quarter >> which what new initiative >> new initiative contribution margin I'm saying >> no it is it is same uh you know there is there is some small mix changes sometimes there is quarterly annual shifts please in our numbers just look them look at them on a 12-month ruling basis do not focus a huge amount on quarterly numbers because sometimes you get rewarded for some action or penalized for some action in the last quarter that that always happens. Uh >> part of it is a big part.

[01:12:21]>> Yeah. And actually I since this may be one of the last question I do want to talk about the how we are thinking about POSP in general. See POSP has been growing yes uh you know still growing faster than our core business and we believe that there is right now is a very opportune moment for us to deepen our penetration in the country. uh and the reason for that is that we have now you know learned how to go to smaller cities. The model is kind of becoming better and better. So I think that you will find us being very aggressive this year on PSP because we see that opportunity. There is also a bit of an industry structure issue because some of the competitors you know a we are now much larger than the competition than we've ever been and the number two thing is that there are some you know changes going on. Somebody's you know merging with somebody, somebody's trying various other things. So we see a very big opportunity for us to really go hard on POSP this year and so I would not get too worried or excited about contribution margin. I think we should see a meaningful improvement in growth in the next financial year and that's what I would you know look towards >> understood and and the second question uh again maybe maybe related to fourth quarter only that the PB corporate business grew 140 odd percentage uh which you highlighted in the uh slide.

[01:13:37]So, so anything to read there whether whether whether it is it's a one-off or or or you think that you you are going to scale this business meaningfully faster and and and honestly on profitability you you last time told that your uh UAE UAE is profitable. So so how do you see PB corporate to play out from profitability point of view?

[01:13:56]>> So I think the reason PBFP's growth looks very high of course is the fact that we are still you know growing in that business. So we are the fastest growing corporate broker but we are still small compared to where we want to be. Uh we had a great Q4 on the corporate side. We won some very prestigious accounts uh which were with other brokers which we were able to win especially in the banking and financial uh space. So I think those accounts obviously then led to revenue etc and that's why you have seen that uh very dramatic growth but again you know it's 140% but we have a long way to go on corporate. I think corporate business will require investment still in the years ahead and uh if you ask me honestly at this point we're very happy to make that investment because every year we are building strength in that business. Uh not only just in employee benefits but now on the commercial side the PNC side where historically we were not as strong I think we are getting much much stronger. So I think there is again a lot of reasons to invest in that business in the next few years. So Sankit we've come from zero and we are now in the top eight brokers in the country. Uh obviously we don't want to stay in top eight. We want to be very very big. Uh we will invest in this and what we are seeing is a very good team.

[01:15:11]We are barely hiring from outside. It's mostly internally built and internally driven and we are building our own culture uh which is uh you know as most of you appreciate is quite strong. uh so I think I think we feel very good about that business and that business is not just a distribute again we are thinking of it the same way it's again lending us leading us into healthare leading us into various places so uh uh you know we we we're very happy with the progress of that business yes it does make a a small amount of loss which is perfectly fine I think the group can easily afford it for a few more years >> but do you think this this business to become very quickly profitable given after you achieve a scale scale the kind of growth what you're delivering right now means compared to compared to APS naturally >> uh yes this can be significantly more profitable uh than uh the POSP business I have no doubt there but as I said that's not the immediate focus the immediate focus see across the board our immediate focus is growth and quality you I think there are three levers you can think of right growth quality profits uh please read While a lot of questions come around profits, that has not been our focus. Our focus is the other two. And this leg will just follow along. And of course, if you are doing growth and quality, eventually profits can't elude you forever.

[01:16:36]>> Understood. And and lastly, lastly, um on on the revenue side, um we we know that in in long-term plans, um we we recognize the revenue, but but naturally, it is receivable. So, so just wanted to understand from the full year point of view around uh 6,800 crores of revenue what we have reported. How much of the revenue uh we have recognized but yet to be received from the insurers just just want to understand the portion of the revenue coming from there.

[01:17:00]>> I think Sange it's a complicated question there is multi-year policies there are multi-year uh you know monthly mode policy etc. Moy can help you on that directionally. uh I think the point remains that it's not a large portion of the story and you know it's it's kind of growth is from last year to this year and >> see there was a cycle there was a cycle which kind of started about October 24 that cycle has run its course so yes you have the impact of one year but that should not keep playing out forever and it should start clearing out now as sir said yeah that we can explain that in a more closed setting >> understood uh that's it for my side thank you very much >> thank you thank you Sank Uh thank youish and management. Uh with this we now close the call and uh for if you have any further queries you may please reach out to industry relations.

[01:17:50]Thank you so much.

[01:17:51]>> Thank you Mohead.