Student DEBT balance grows after 10 years of payment

Added: 2026-05-31

[00:00:00]I borrowed $60,000 in student loans to go to grad school. I now owe over $70,000 and I've been paying on those student loans since I think 2017. Um, and when Joe Biden was president, they had a program where based on my income, I paid $0 a month, but it still counted towards my 10-year requirement for public service loan forgiveness. Since that program has ended because our sleepy head and chief decided no, uh they now think I can pay $850 a month towards my student loans despite my financial situation being exactly the same as it was when I was paying $0 a month. Um but don't worry, even though they think I can pay $850 a month, I do qualify for financial hardship deferment. So, I won't be making payments towards my public service loan forgiveness, but at least the interest will stop acrewing or so they say.

[00:00:57]>> I actually looked up folks whether or not her interest would stop acrewing and be because of all the changes and I didn't look up hers personally because I don't have personal information on her, but just in general because there have been so many changes like with the save plan and all of that stuff. It's really impossible to know whether or not your student loan interest at as a whole as a public hole is going to actually still continue being at zero. My hunch is it's not. So really what you're going to have to do is check with your individual provider.

[00:01:31]You know, it used to be we could say everybody on the safe plan was at zero interest. Well, the same plan was, you know, being litigated and all of that, but now it's like taking glass and it's just completely shattered and everybody is going to have to check on their own, which yes, I understand means you might be on hold for two hours or eight hours and that is just highly unfortunate, but there's just no way to know. I thank God every day my 110,000 was forgiven in 2022. I thank God. I like could get down. I probably do mentally, okay?

[00:02:02]Mentally, I get down on my knees every day and say, "Thank you." And I know if it had not been forgiven, it's not that I'd be financially screwed as far as I couldn't pay it. I could pay the $800 a month or I think I was scheduled to pay like $950. Problem is, it would have come at the cost of saving for retirement. So instead of $1,000 a month plus into retirement, it would be well here's $1,000 to the student loan and $500 to retirement, hypothetically speaking, that would have been the difference. Got to keep in mind, folks, that when you take on this student loan debt, it's not just can you pay the student loan debt off, it's can you pay the student loan debt off and save for retirement. And I think once you hit past the age of 40, it becomes extra extra crucial that you are able to do that. So, just something to think about. But like I've warned, 0% interest, excuse me, 0% payment does not mean that your debt is paid off. It does not mean that the bill is not acrewing.

[00:03:04]And unfortunately, there was a time period a few years back where I think too many people were celebrating. Oh, thank goodness, zero. I am so broke. I am so poor. I can't pay a thing on it.

[00:03:14]It's going to be zero. That's kind of like what is it? That's like a fox in sheep's clothes. It It looks attractive.

[00:03:19]If it looks nice, it looks like we're saving you, but in reality, it's going to hurt you down the road. Keep in mind also, for every $100,000 that you take out in student loan, you are looking at approximately a,000 maybe anywhere between 9 $1,200 a month interest. And that's assuming you don't get yourself into one of those stupid 17% interest rates because I had 110,000 and without that income based and knowing that I'm also teacher and all of that. My student loan payment was due to be about $950 a month. Guys, it's where your student loan payment for some people can be more expensive than your rent.

[00:03:56]Thanks for being here with me. Also, don't forget you can fast forward to the next chapter and see these Tik Toks straight through. When you hear the three boxing bells, that means my commentary section is over and you're entering the quiet room. No commentary zone. Thanks for being here.

[00:04:08]>> Have you ever just woke up one day and realized that you hated like how you became what life you lived?

[00:04:23]It's like I've feel like I'm doing all the right things and I'm still failing.

[00:04:32]like I wasn't successful in my career.

[00:04:35]I'm in $28,000 in student loan debt.

[00:04:43]It's like I'm live paycheck to paycheck making $22 an hour and I got my hours cut and I'm on the verge of losing my job and I feel like I can't do anything right.

[00:04:56]It's like I left an engagement that wasn't healthy and I thought that it would make me happy and I haven't been happy because I realized like all the things that I was ignoring and putting off were catching up to me and I am in this position where I can't really do anything about it anymore. more like I don't know what's going to happen to me a month from now, two from now. Honestly, I don't even know if I have a future beyond what the ever is happening in this country. Like, I don't think this country is going to allow me to have a future.

[00:05:49]Okay, I want to stop right there before she continues.

[00:05:53]It's easy and you you'll notice I take a kinder, gentler tone with student loan debt oftentimes because I have been there and I know what it feels like. I know what this level of depression feels like. We have to do everything we can to not think that the country is in charge of your future, but you are. And regardless of who's in office, regardless of what's going on out there in the political sphere, we have to remember that what goes on in your own household, whether you're single, kids, you know, divorced, married, whatever.

[00:06:26]Okay. Um, the choices that you make on a day-to-day basis, I strongly believe they are not influenced by who's in office, regardless of the party or anything else. Whether or not I choose to go out, you know, I love perfume.

[00:06:40]whether I choose to go out and buy a bottle of perfume um is not dependent on whether you know Mr. or Mrs. is in office and how it's going to affect my budget. When I hear people talk say things like, "I don't know this country's going to pot. I'm not going to be able to do anything for myself because of who's sitting in office."

[00:07:00]Well, you're turning over all your power and you're basically saying that you are not an independent thinker and that you cannot independently make your decisions. the decisions that you make under your household. Well, yes, there may be laws that do shape in certain areas. Student loan law, yeah, that clearly shapes things. What are the rules? But whether or not you live in a city or a town, whether you spend, you know, $200 more per month or whether you save $200 more a month, whether or not you have more kids than you can afford, whether you know, you know what I mean?

[00:07:32]the day-today life. We give too much um power, too much rent space, too much budget space to things that are so unimportant to your daytoday activity.

[00:07:45]You know what's interesting? I can actually turn off the news because I'm a real news junkie because I major in journalism. Um way back, okay, 1989, got my journalism degree at the University of Oregon. So, I'm naturally kind of a news junkie. But you know what's interesting? Even if I don't listen to the news that day, which doesn't happen that often, but even if I don't listen to the news that day, you know what I realize? My life doesn't change. It it it doesn't change. I have a gal pal who never listens to the news. And the only way she knows what's going on is I mean, don't get me wrong, she's very educated, intelligent, but but she's a great example of someone who the politics and what's going off on in office has nothing to do with her day-to-day decisions and her financial independence and her ability to spend in a way that doesn't hurt her but helps her. You see, so when I hear people just saying things like that, I I just like to give caution and say, let's not get into this mindset where it's, oh, you know, I don't think this country, this country is nothing more in individual people and as an individual, you have a right and you have the freedom, whether you believe it or not, to make decisions that will or will not financially harm you. And her student loan debt is $28,000. People may go, "Oh, that's really small." Well, again, small is all relative. If I went bankrupt decades ago on a $16,000 car, which today is like, what's the big deal? It's all relative to what your situation is at the time. I was working a job and a half, couldn't pay off my credit card bills. It didn't matter. My first real job was $16,000 a year. You see, so people have to think in terms of the time period and all of that. So, while lots of people with six figure debt would six-f figureure student debt would love to have a $28,000 bill to her that $28,000 bill and there's studies that show it, you know, relative to what you make that could be a $60,000 bill to somebody else. But let's not give the country, the invisible man, okay, more power than they need to have. Otherwise, you're sunk. You're going to be totally dependent on who's in office and what politics are going on. And that really when you get down to it has nothing to do with you taking out student loan debt that you could not afford.

[00:09:41]>> My parents are getting old.

[00:09:44]My sister's disabled and I'm going to have to eventually become the sole g care caregiver of all of them.

[00:09:52]>> I think she's putting too much on her shoulders at too young of an age. I really do. You can't. And maybe this is easy for this this is easier for me to say because I'm not in her position.

[00:10:04]Okay, I don't have a sister that needs caregiving and all that, but this is where you need to start making plans. It seems like she's planning for everybody else's future, but her future. And then when she plans for her future, it seems to all be dependent on what everybody else is doing. Sometimes to grow up and to find your wings and to get independent, you can't worry about everybody else. You just can't. At least not at that time. And right now her depression is so much that she's not carrying just her burdens, but what she feels is everybody else's burden. Years later, my parents and I are going to need help. Perhaps years later, my sister will need help. This is where you start making plans, social services, all of that stuff. Again, this is easier said than done. I get it. But if she lives her whole life carrying the burdens of everybody, then she'll never go anywhere. And we certainly don't want to see that. I find it fascinating that Sally May thinks that I don't know that I'm missing payments. I don't have a job. I told you guys I don't have a job.

[00:11:02]I told you guys I can't pay $835. I don't even have that much to my name right now. Yeah, I cut you off from being able to take money out of my account. I am highly aware that you don't care that I lost my job, but that doesn't mean like with what money am I paying? What money would I pay that? And they're like, "Don't you have family?

[00:11:23]Don't you have friends who are going to give me 830?"

[00:11:27]Like, I know that it's their job to collect. And I know that I signed these loans. No, I don't have somebody I can be like, "Hey, can I have $835, please?" like and then they have now mentioned four times my co-signer my dead dad co-signer and I the last time we talked I went I don't know how many times I and this lady was actually very kind cuz I I said look I don't know how many times I need to tell you guys this you can't contact my co-signer unless you got a Ouija board and that somehow magically works because he is Dead. Dead. Dead. Dead. He is dead. You guys keep saying like we're going to go after your dad. Try it.

[00:12:19]Beam you up, Scotty. Like, where are you going? Well, lower down. Who knows? I'm kidding. I love my dad. And I'm sure he's somewhere in the universe somewhere. It's like, reminder, we're going to come after you.

[00:12:30]Come after what? I don't own anything. I don't own a car. I don't own the place that I live. I don't own anything.

[00:12:39]Like unless you want old hair care products and like cheap clothes and hand-me-down bedding and I get it. They have to collect and they this is their job. I don't know how you guys do that job. That would absolutely drain me. Um, having to have so many conversations with people who are like, I literally can't afford these loans. I don't know what to do. And you're like, tough luck.

[00:13:13]>> You know, it makes you wonder how many of the people who make the calls also have their own student loan loan debt because Sally May is a huge employer.

[00:13:20]So, you know, some a lot of the people there have their own student loan debt.

[00:13:24]Yeah. Crap a just kind of rolls downhill and it is totally like the student loan company to threaten to go after someone who is deceased. So, I feel really sorry about that. be because that shouldn't be happening. And please keep in mind if you do cosign for someone and that student passes away, you need to know in advance, are you still going to be held responsible for the debt? I will tell you from just general what I know, private loans, yeah, they'll hold you responsible till both of you pass away.

[00:13:52]Federal loans, not so much. But you need to check the fine print. And I'm the type that I think you should call and see it in writing. You need to do both because you don't want to go co-signing for somebody, have that person unfortunately pass away and you're still on the hook. Remember, this is business to Sally May to the federal government.

[00:14:16]It's not about who you loved and lost.

[00:14:18]It's all about the dollar and business.

[00:14:21]All right, we're going to do something new. I'm going to see if I can just switch straight to the next screen without having to stop and reset up for the business insider article. The worst thing that's going to happen is I totally mess it up. But I would really like the ability to just go from one to the other and switch.

[00:14:40]The technology on this channel has just grown so much. I've always had to start stop it. It's just such a pain. I was going to say a pain in the you know what. All right, let's continue on. All right, here's Business Insider. As you guys know, this student loan debt stuff only runs in the morning. Um unfortunately, and somebody did ask me it. it just doesn't get the pull um statwise that I needed to have to run on 6 pm weekdays or the 3:30 weekdays.

[00:15:06]Thumbs up because I've been doing a good job with content, folks. I I think I've been doing a pretty good job. So, if you get this and you feel so please feel leave the please feel free to leave a thumbs up, but as you know, you never have to. Okay. All right. Here we go.

[00:15:17]We're look at a business insider. I'm just so proud of myself. I have to stop for a minute, you know? I'm just so proud. That was the first time I've done this. Okay. Hey, it's the small things and simple things in life. Whatever you're doing this uh Friday morning, I hope you're having a great day and you're going to make it a great day and I really appreciate you being here with me. All right, here we go. Business Insider. It's also last day of school.

[00:15:38]It's mind-boggling to me. This is titled, "It's mindboggling to me that this total amount is not going down.

[00:15:43]It's not going away. Two bars describe the crushing interest that keeps them from paying off their debt." The article is by I got to switch my other screen.

[00:15:51]Hold on. The article is by Islet Sheffy, August 23rd, 2021. As you know, even though it's a few years old, you know, the debt is still around. The stories are more relevant than ever. Student loan debt, it doesn't matter when this story was written. It's all relevant.

[00:16:06]Alexandria Maven heard from her high school teachers that there was a path to the American dream. If she went to college, graduated, and got an office job, she would get there. She graduated with $117,000 in student debt as a down payment for that dream. Now 32 years old and a property manager, she's back 70,000 of it, but she still owes 98,000 from her undergraduate education and she says she absolutely regrets seeking an education.

[00:16:38]I've paid back almost all of my loans, but I still owe the full amount. Maven told insider it's a never- ending cycle.

[00:16:44]All right, I want to do something before we all throw, you know, rocks and whatnot, you know, passed away flowers at counselors.

[00:16:54]Guys, parents have to get involved with what is going on at the high school level in my opinion as to what kids are being told about financing college.

[00:17:06]Parents must get along. And I really really believe that part of the problem is that parents I don't oh I don't want to say it's because they're apathetic but either ignorance too busy they're thinking back when they were in the 80s because by then they'd probably be grandparents cuz I'm Gen X. Okay. So if you think about it they're giving too much power to the high school counselors to run a student's financial life. So, the student comes home one day and says, "Hey, mom, dad, the high school's counselor said for me to do this, this, this, take on this loan, this debt, sign here, cosign, and all of that. Parents need to be more involved." This is an absolute nightmare. $117,000 in debt. She's only 32 years old. She's paid 70,000. This woman has paid just about that about 60 maybe a little 60% or so right around there of it. And she's only at 98,000. that this girl this chickie is barely under 100,000 still. And remember, she's now 32. So, she's paying on it most likely for over a decade. And let's face it, to be a property manager, you're not making that much. So, we all know she's most likely been paying incomebased. Now, it has gone down a little bit. But again, for over a decade, it's only gone down to barely $20,000 for over a decade.

[00:18:26]And if anything happens financially to her, it's going to be really easy to bump it right back up to 117,000.

[00:18:33]So, she's right. She's paid back all of her loans, but she still owes the full amount or near near it. Yes. Because what she's been paying each month isn't enough to de to dig deeply into the principal. And I just want to say real quickly or kind of slowly as this channel seems to move, I love you guys.

[00:18:51]But we have to remember the higher the debt is, the less motivated we are to pay it off in general. I'm not saying there's thoughts out there. Oh, the debt's real high and I'm going to tackle it. That's the attitude we need to have.

[00:19:03]But the problem is, look at she's in her 30s. This is a prime age for Bay wanting to start a family, get married, do life experiences.

[00:19:12]It really is. So, what happens? Oh, you know, this student loan debt. I don't want to put towards that. I'd rather have these experiences cuz you're really in your 30s. You're now out out you're now fully out of your parents house. You are fully an adult. More than an more than an adult. And now you're experiencing things that you've never experienced before as an adult.

[00:19:31]Decisions you get to make. Student loan debt just doesn't seem so exciting. So let's say you have an extra thousand to put towards it versus going on a vacation, which is usually going to win.

[00:19:41]Exactly. The vacation. Maven is talking about interest. It's why many borrowers have trouble staying on top of payments or eliminating their debt. The 1.7 trillion student debt crisis is largely due to interest that grows each year. So even borrowers who consistently repay their debt face high interest rates that keep their debt equal to what they initially borrowed or higher. And we've seen those god-awful private school uh loan debts usually taken with Sally May and they are up to we we've heard interest up to 17%. Now keep in mind I will put a link to this article in the description box.

[00:20:16]I don't read the whole article. I just basically focus on the stories about the people in it. I don't get into all the stats and statistics and all that. Oh, there she is. The beautiful Maven. And she's buo six figures in debt. Maven student loans are owned by four servicesers. And only one of them, Fed Loan Servicing, was included in the federal pause on student loan payments and interest during the pandemic. But even so, Maven said being free from interest on even just one of her loans saved her $377 a month, which she put towards savings and helped her pay off in full her hospital bills from giving birth during the pandemic. All right?

[00:20:52]And we're going to do this as sensitively as possible. Remember what I have said, you can run up six figure debt. And I just made this point like 30 seconds ago. There are other things that are more important that are more exciting, more rewarding to pay than student loan debt. So even though she has this fig figure debt, she clearly decided, hey, I'm going to have a baby now on top of it. See, we don't like to think of the student loan debt as our child that this isn't a child we want to feed and support. No, I want a real baby that walks and talks and says goooo gaga. That's the one I'm willing to put money towards.

[00:21:28]See, and this is a harsh reality, but how much faster could the debt be paid off if you didn't have a child? But I'm only in my best child. I'm in my best childbearing years and I don't want to wait till I'm 45. I didn't say it was a fun decision. I'm just simply saying you treat your student loan debt like a child. Instead of paying hospital bills for the student loan debt, you'd be putting that towards excuse me as if instead of bills for a hospital, you'd be putting the bills towards the student loan debt. Not saying it's fun. I'm just saying imagine. But again, like I point out frequently in almost every video, there is stuff that is more exciting to pay for than student loan. I would rather pay a hospital bill for a brand new baby, too over, oh great, I owe another $377 in interest on student loans. It just shows how without student loans, I can afford life. Well, of course, guys, that how without too much car payment. How without too much car I mean, excuse me, too much house. How without student loan debt? How without credit card bills? Your life becomes free when you can do the if I just didn't have this. And it's amazing when you're debt free. Also, the things that crop up in life that are financially unexpected, they don't set you back so much. Okay? Like I know here at our HOA HOA, we have to put up storm windows. We don't have a choice. The whole HOA voted that we're going to go ahead and use one contractor. We have to put up new screens, new storm windows, and have a building check. Yeah. I have double digit in reserves for it just in case. I mean, we have to put that that that's a guarantee, which is nice. And we'll have hurricane category three windows on our condo. But if I had a $900 student loan bill, a car payment, I had too much condo, I'd be freaking broke. Instead, I'm like, "Okay, we're we're we're good.

[00:23:12]I can go into the double digits and and still breathe even if it enters the bottom double digits. I don't think it'll get that high, but who knows? I got it."

[00:23:21]This is why we want to stay out of debt.

[00:23:24]But like I said, it's more exciting to give birth and plan a family than face the fact that you already have this bill that's nearly six figures.

[00:23:34]She says, "I'm financially paralyzed by crippling debt." This is a different person. Danielle Tapia, 41, graduated a decade ago with a bachelor's degree in dental hygiene. Oh boy. The first in his family to do so. Since then, he told insider he's been driving used cars, living in quote, crappy apartments, and moved back in with his mom thanks to the growing student debt he's been trying to pay off for 10 years. I'm financially paralyzed by crippling debt, and I can't get ahead in life. Quote, killed by the student loan industry. There the young man is paying on his student loan debt for 10 years. There's he is in his medical outfit, Danielle Tapia. To afford his bachelor's degree, he borrowed $60,000 in private student loans with a 9% interest rate. His student loan debt currently stands at just under 86,000, including $22,000 owned by the government, even after making a decade's worth of monthly payments. So, let's take a look here.

[00:24:26]Okay, he borrowed $60,000 in private student loans. He owes $86,000.

[00:24:34]Isn't paying for more than a decade.

[00:24:38]What I don't get is if I took out a certain amount and I paid that amount already and I still owe more than I originally owed. It's just nuts. He said, "It's mindboggling to me that this total amount is not going down. It's not going away." Guys, it's really not mind-boggling. It's not. It's math. I still owe more than I originally owed.

[00:24:54]Right? Because you never paid enough to get into the principal. Why? You didn't pay enough to get into the principal because when they gave you the actual bill, let's just throw out a number that I would have dealt with. $900 a month. I went, "Oh, oh, geez. Sweet Jesus. I can't afford that. Yeah, knock that sucker down. Okay, fine. Hey, okay, we'll go ahead and we'll knock it down to $350 for you, which is exactly what they did. My students come in, knocked it down to 350. Went from 85,000 to $110. We got to quit saying it's mindboggling.

[00:25:21]I have said to you and I have preached family, when you cannot pay into the principal, you're paying income based.

[00:25:30]You're paying interest or lower. All you're doing, well, if you're paying interest, at least it's not going up.

[00:25:34]Most of us are paying way below the interest. Even even maybe 50% of the interest, as a matter of fact, if that when you can't see that debt going down because you can't make a high enough payment to pay it off, all you're doing is making a payment to say, "Hey, I can't pay off my student loan." That's all you're doing. You are making a payment to say, "Thank you for letting me not pay off my student loan here, Mr. Government, uh, Mr. Private Loan Party, Sally May, whomever. Here is your check.

[00:26:03]You can't pay $900 a month. No problem.

[00:26:05]We'll let you pay $30. Okay. Here is a check every single month for the next 10 years for $300 because I can't make my loan go away. You are literally, you know, I try to avoid using that word because the freaking Tik Tok beggars got me using that. But you are literally paying to hold on to your student loan typically to watch it grow.

[00:26:29]Cuz most people who can't pay the if you can't pay into the principal, most people can't even pay the interest to keep it from growing. That's what you're paying for. Thank you for allowing me to have this debt that I cannot pay off and I'm going to pay you each month for it.

[00:26:42]And then 10, 15 years later, you look at it or even five years later, it's like, "Oh my god, I don't understand why it didn't go down." It's math 101. It's math 101. Okay, this is an emotional problem of taking out student loan debt.

[00:26:53]It's not a mathematical problem. The math is there. The math has always been been there.

[00:27:04]I borrowed $60,000 in student loans to go to grad school. I now owe over $70,000 and I've been paying on those student loans since I think 2017. Um, and when Joe Biden was president, they had a program where based on my income, I paid $0 a month, but it still counted towards my 10-year requirement for public service loan forgiveness. Since that program has ended, because our sleepy head-in chief decided no, uh they now think I can pay $850 a month towards my student loans despite my financial situation being exactly the same as it was when I was paying $0 a month. Um, but don't worry, even though they think I can pay $850 a month, I do qualify for financial hardship deferment. So, I won't be making payments towards my public service loan forgiveness, but at least the interest will stop acrewing, or so they say. Have you ever just woke up one day and realized that you hated like how you became what life you lived?

[00:28:16]that it's like I've feel like I'm doing all the right things and I'm still failing.

[00:28:25]Like I wasn't successful in my career.

[00:28:28]I'm in $28,000 in student loan debt.

[00:28:37]It's like I'm live paycheck to paycheck making $22 an hour and I got my hours cut and I'm on the verge of losing my job and I feel like I can't do anything right.

[00:28:49]It's like I left an engagement that wasn't healthy and I thought that it would make me happy and I haven't been happy because I realized like all the things that I was ignoring and putting off were catching up to me and I am in this position where I can't really do anything about it anymore. more like I don't know what's going to happen to me a month from now, two months from now, a year from now. Honestly, I don't even know if I have a future beyond what the ever is happening in this country. Like, I don't think this country is going to allow me to have a future.

[00:29:42]My parents are getting old.

[00:29:44]My sister's disabled. and I'm going to have to eventually become the sole g care caregiver of all of them.

[00:29:52]>> I find it fascinating that Sally May thinks that I don't know that I'm missing payments. I don't have a job. I told you guys I don't have a job. I told you guys I can't pay $835. I don't even have that much to my name right now.

[00:30:07]Yeah, I cut you off from being able to take money out of my account. I am highly aware that you don't care that I lost my job, but that doesn't mean like with what money am I paying? What money would I pay that? And they're like, don't you have family? Don't you have friends who are going to give me 830?

[00:30:27]Like, I know that it's their job to collect and I know that I signed these loans. No, I don't have somebody I can be like, "Hey, can I have $835, please?" Like and then they have now mentioned four times my co-signer, my dead dad co-signer. And I the last time we talked, I went, I don't know how many times I and this lady was actually very kind cuz I I said, "Look, I don't know how many times I need to tell you guys this. You can't contact my co-signer unless you got a Ouija board."

[00:31:07]And that somehow magically works because he is dead. Dead. Dead. Dead. He is dead. You guys keep saying like, "We're going to go after your dad. Try it.

[00:31:18]Beam you up, Scotty. Like, where are you going?" Well, lower down. Who knows? I'm kidding. I love my dad. And I'm sure he's somewhere in the universe somewhere. It's like reminder we're going to come after you.

[00:31:29]Come after what? I don't own anything. I don't own a car. I don't own the place that I live. I don't own anything like unless you want old hair care products and like cheap clothes and hand-me-down bedding and I get it. They have to collect and they this is their job. I don't know how you guys do that job. That would absolutely drain me. um having to have so many conversations with people who are like, "I literally can't afford these loans. I don't know what to do." And you're like, "Tough luck. We're going to come after you."

[00:32:14]Like I don't know how you live with