1.6K SHIPS STUCK IN STRAIT FOR MORE THAN 67 DAYS - w/ What's Going On With Shipping

Added: 2026-05-07

[00:00:06]Sal, good to have you again.

[00:00:08]>> Mario, great to be back with you again.

[00:00:11]>> So, I just saw a report came out today.

[00:00:12]Uh, the CEO of Marisk, the uh world's large second largest shipping company, says the Iran wars costing the industry half a billion dollars a month. And he says the price will be passed on to customers. And I'm like, look, I got to speak to Sal again. You know, it's been a few weeks since we spoke and the the straight of home is still closed.

[00:00:31]There's a deal, there's no deal, depending who you want to believe. And we almost got back into war 3 days ago when when the US tried to reopen it. Um, what's the state of things now? It just looks really bad. I was seeing a report as well. There's like 20,000 uh men stuck in the straight of Homo, you know, you call them sailors or whatever that are stranded on the ships and over a thousand ships that are stranded there. It just sounds, you know, something you'd expect to see in in a global war, a world war type scenario.

[00:01:00]>> Well, the the mar the mariners are are a big issue. This has been going on obviously since the very beginning.

[00:01:05]You're talking about a thousand deep draft vessels, you know, somewhere in the range of 20,000 mariners stuck there. I've had an opportunity to talk to many of them out there and even including some that have just transited out of the straits. And one of the things they they're they're kind of uh making an analogy to is is they're calling themselves the yellow fleet. And that goes back to 1968 during the six- day war when Israel and and Egypt went to war and the Suez canal was closed for eight years and there was a batch of ships stuck in the Suez Canal and and that's that's what they're calling themselves now because the ships are sitting there. They get a little bit of coat of yellow on them from the dust because they're not moving around as much. Uh they had issues. They had a lot of issues. fuel, food, water. You know, some of the ports won't take them in. Uh they can't get underway long enough to produce enough water. So, it's been it's been a big issue. The issue with Maris is is a really important one because, you know, we tend to focus on oil. Oil tends to be the big issue. Everyone wants to kind of concentrate on that issue, but one of the biggest problems is bunker fuel. It's the fuel for the ships. And and what we're seeing is everything that moves on the world's oceans is getting more expensive. uh shipping lines are adding search charges because fuel cost is going up. Just like fuel is going up at the pumps, just like we're having issues with aviation fuel, ship fuel is getting more and more expensive. And what shipping companies are doing is adding search charges onto everything. And that just incrementally increased the costs. And there was a lot of hope, for example, that the Red Sea was going to open back up again, that maybe we would start seeing big transits through the Red Sea for ships going between Europe and Asia. That hasn't happened. getting very small transits through there with big ships.

[00:02:42]Everybody's still going around South Africa. Uh this is just creating a much longer distance to move. And you know, one of the other reports that came out is even if everything stops right now and you return back to it, it's going to take at least until August to replace all the tankers that are out of out of out of place. You know, there's a batch of them off the coast of the United States. Uh we're we're talking months here till we can get this even straightened out should it stop today.

[00:03:10]You mentioned about the Red Sea. Why aren't they using the Red Sea? Because I thought the Houthis are not attacking any ships. From as far as I'm I'm aware, >> they're not. And the last attack they did was back in September of 2025. And just before this up before this whole situation began early in 2026, we started to see we started seeing ships starting to go back through, at least big ships. What we had going through was about half the normal voyages through there. But what wasn't going through there were the large ships, the really expensive ships, the container ships, the uh the the highv value ships, because there still was a war risk on there. You still had to pay a lot of money to go through there. If you had to do a transit through the the Red Sea, you had to pay a lot. And if you have a half a billion dollar ship and you're paying a 1% war risk insurance, you know, that $10 million, it is much more affordable to spend an extra million dollars in fuel going around Africa. And so that's what was happening. And we started to see shipping lines start sending their ships through. Mer started it. Hop hog, CMACGM, the big container lines were starting to do it. But once this conflict started, everybody's like, "No, this could start back tomorrow.

[00:04:16]We're going to keep the big ships out of the way." And so what we what we're actually seeing here is a bigger displacement of shipping than most people take for grant acknowledge. We've got the displacement out of straight horses, but we still have probably about 5 to 10% of global shipping still going around Africa for fear that the Houthi could start tomorrow.

[00:04:36]Holy Their risk tolerance is near zero. Like the Houthis haven't attacked a ship for months and they still wouldn't go through the Red Sea. Imagine then what was Trump thinking with the straight Hus trying to escort ships with Iran firing on them. Uh Project Freedom if ships are going through the the Red Sea when nothing's happening. Why the hell would they go through the straight of Homo despite a US escort or US support? I I think this is what the US failed to understand. I work a lot, you know, trying to explain commercial shipping to military and governments and, you know, if you tell a military person, listen, you have a 99% chance of success, they're going to jump on that.

[00:05:13]That's like, oh, that's a slam dunk.

[00:05:15]We're going to do this operation. This is a piece of cake. If you tell a container ship company, hey, you've got a 1% chance of losing the ship, they're going to sit there and say, "No, no, no.

[00:05:24]That is too much of a risk." Because again, it's not just losing the ship.

[00:05:28]It's losing the cargo, losing the ship, losing the crew, but more importantly, I'm going to lose 10 to 15 more years of revenue from that ship, and it's going to take me three to five years to get a replacement vessel online. And and that's what they see. And they would much rather Mario sit there for a couple of weeks, even months, even 10 weeks.

[00:05:45]It's like, I'll sit there in the Persian Gulf and let my boat sit there until this all settles out and then I can sail through when it's clear. I I I risk adverse all the time. And I think that's what a lot of people fail to understand.

[00:05:58]When was you talked about the displacement of ships? Um when was the last time we had a situation like what we're dealing with right now?

[00:06:06]>> I think you I mean even during the tanker war of the 1980s shipping was still going through. I mean and that was a different scenario because that escalated that escalated over the course of eight years. So you still had ships going through. uh you had a little bit of a displacement, you know, with no ships going to Ukraine at the very beginning of of the Russia Ukraine war, but that was small in terms of numbers.

[00:06:27]Really, the biggest displacement you got to go back to is 68 when when when the Suez closed for eight years, and it fundamentally altered the way we do ocean transportation. This is where you saw the creation of the the very large and ultra-large crude carriers, ships capable of carrying several million barrels of oil. We're talking about ships, you know, over 300,000 tons. So I mean that's where you saw that change.

[00:06:50]It literally changed the way we move oil. I mean after even when the Suez Canal back opened back up in 75, you still used very large ultra-large container uh excuse me crude carriers to move oil to Europe and uh to America and you started moving them to Asia that way.

[00:07:06]>> I was trying to see how how big a 300,000 ton ship is. That looks like a city like a country. That is insane. So that started so so that started because of the S's canal closure, >> right? And you started building them because what you got is efficiency from it. So what what you did is, you know, prior to Suez, you were running ships maybe about 100 150,000 tons. But what they figured out was very quickly is like if I make my ship longer, wider, and deeper, a cube, I get more efficiency. I same crew, you know, I can I can operate, you know, a 100,000 ton tanker with 22 people. I can run a 300,000 ton tanker with 22 people. And more importantly, I get the efficiency.

[00:07:45]When I was in Abu Dhabi last, uh, there was a a VLCC in there, and you could literally take the US biggest aircraft carrier, stick it inside the VLC, and put another one on top of it. That's how big it is. It It pales in comparison. I I don't think I don't think a lot of people appreciate how actually awesome and how large these ships are. It's about a quarter of a mile long. You're talking about 400 meters, 1300 feet.

[00:08:08]>> Yeah. Lisa, I've just sent you a photo of the the the ship. If you can show it to the audience just to understand how big they are. I'll try to get another photo there.

[00:08:15]>> But that is insane. That is a wild size ship. Yeah. I want to go back to the S Canal. That's the size of it.

[00:08:22]>> Is that it? That's one of the big ones.

[00:08:24]Yes. Hal.

[00:08:25]>> That is crazy. Look at the city. Look at the bridges next to it. It just gives you a comparison of the size. It's a city. It's It's bigger than all these uh Is it How does it compare in size to an aircraft carrier? Again, aircraft carrier would be substantially shorter and actually not as wide as this ship. I mean, if you were able to take that deck off, you can stick one inside of it.

[00:08:45]That's that's how big it is. Takes you about three miles to stop them. I I mean, when when you I mean, just turn the the the engine off, it just has its own inertia and momentum to it. They're they're massive vessels. Just absolutely massive. Some of these vessels are so large. For example, you're hearing about the VLCC's coming to the United States.

[00:09:03]One of the problems with bringing very large crude carriers to the United States, you can't get them into ports everywhere. So, what you wind up having to do is anchor them off the coast and bring smaller tankers out and fill them up because they draw so much water. They draw somewhere between depending on on their loads between 50 to 80 ft of water. And so, it's just it's massive in in their scale.

[00:09:23]>> I was watching a video as well of how how difficult it would be to militarily escort those ships like Project Freedom.

[00:09:30]Does it even sound feasible for you?

[00:09:31]When you first heard about Trump announcing Project Freedom, which is now canceled after 36 hours or so when you first saw that, what was your first thought? So to escort those two US ships out, so understand what they what they had to do. It it wasn't as much as just sending destroyers in. They there was a whole process that went in. So back in March, there was an order that went out to Navy reserveists. These are specific reservists. These these are what called strategic seal lift officers. These are naval officers who have who also have merchant marine licenses. They're very specialized and what they do is they send them out to the ships and they board the ships and what they do is they bring kits with them which provide secure communication. So they went on board the two ships and they bring secure communication and what they do is they can then communicate with the Navy.

[00:10:19]What you don't want to do is be communicating through very high frequency VHF radios kind of walkie-talkies. You don't want to be using satellite phones because all that could be jammed and monitored. The other thing that they brought on board with them was marine detachments. They actually brought Marines with them on board. So they brought Marines from the 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit and they brought with them weaponry so that they can deal with surface and aerial drones and the small boats. This is the issue that for example back last week or more than a week ago now, April 22nd, you had two Mediterranean shipping uh company ships grabbed by the Iranians and they use small boats with machine guns and rockets. So you want to put those units on there. So it was very elaborate. Then you had on shore the 82nd Airborne Division which was a brigade of the 82nd Airborne sent out from Fort Bragg. They coordinated the aerial elements, the helicopters. So you had AH64 Apaches, you had 860 Seahawks. This is a very intricate operation and and they just moved two ships. I mean, this is this is the problem I had with this. If it took this much effort to get two ships out, >> you've got 900,000 ships out is is how do you scale that up? So when the f, for example, there was a friendship that just came out, the CMA CGM San Antonio, and there's an argument between that ship and the Navy. They say that the ship says and the company says we coordinated. We worked with the shorebased Navy uh what's called ENKAGs the Navy Cooperation Assistance Group.

[00:11:46]This is the group that liazison with commercial ships. The Navy and the military saying no you didn't. And what happened is that ship we think actually got hit by a missile. Eight wounded on board. That's that's >> these ships.

[00:12:00]>> This was on May 5th. On May 5th.

[00:12:02]>> Okay. So, eight wounded tells me that that's a substantial hit. That's not a drone hit. That's that's something that probably impacted engine room, impacted the bridge, uh hit hit a lot of people.

[00:12:14]A lot of drones. The other thing about those big ships is they're really hard to stop. I I I mean, even with weaponry, I I mean, this is what we saw in the Red Sea. It takes a substantial hit to cause damage to those. And and so, what I think is it was probably going to be unsustainable because they were not going to be able to do large numbers of ships. They only activated about a dozen reser to come out. So they could, you know, put those crews on maybe five, six ships at a time and do it. So it was going to be very difficult to do any sort of large scale operation.

[00:12:45]>> Yeah. Um I'm going to play a video now for the audience just briefly without the audio. Lisa, if you can play that, but it just shows that you're talking about having the the the soldiers on the ground, the Marines on the on the ship itself. Then you've got the Apache helicopters as well to intercept drones.

[00:12:58]You've got the missiles as well. So you've got the Aegis air defense system on the um warships that would be escorting those ships. So when I was watching that video, I just realized how how demanding it would be just to escort a couple of ships. This is the E. So this is if there's a So there'd be so Iran would attack with fast attack boss as you're seeing here. They'll be trying to overwhelm the defense system. If you could do it on fast track, put it on 2x Lisa. So be the the So that's for the warships. And that's apparently what happened because there's some reports that there wasn't just two missiles that were firing. These are the drones.

[00:13:29]Wasn't two warning shots. It was a lot is a more substantial attack against the warships. And there's the anti-ship missiles from the Iranian coastline. So then the Americans would have to uh to use their Apache helicopters to attack the the the smaller ships, the smaller boats that will be trying to overwhelm the defense systems. And then this is all to escort the merchant ships. This is crazy. What a crazy operation. You got missiles, you got to intercept with the Aegis system. It it is I don't know what they were thinking. Were they Were they expecting the America the Iranians to blink maybe and not respond militarily to be too worried about escalation? Is that the only scenario that would make sense? Because if it's not if it's not it's not scalable, then why would you even attempt such an operation?

[00:14:14]>> I I think it it was involved in a couple of things. Number one, they've been wanting to get these American ships out.

[00:14:19]I mean, there there were five American ships that have been stuck in the Persian Gulf the entire time. One of the ships is in a dry dock or in a shipyard.

[00:14:25]So, that one's probably not going to come out. Two of the other ones are probably going to stay in the Persian Gulf because they're they're they're kind of they assist the Department of Defense in moving cargo around, but these two big ones wanted to get out and they needed to get them out. And so, that operation was to kind of get them out.

[00:14:39]>> If I ask, do you mind if I ask why?

[00:14:41]Like, why were they so important?

[00:14:43]>> Well, I I mean, the US doesn't have a lot of commercial ships and so I think it was it was a big issue to get them out. Plus, they do move military cargo.

[00:14:50]So, one of them is a big car carrier that's used by the Department of Defense to move vehicles around around the world. The other one's a tanker, which is really important for sustaining the fleet that's off in the Indian Ocean.

[00:15:01]So, this ship could be used for supporting them. So, I I think they wanted to get them out for that reason.

[00:15:07]But the the other issue I thought was, and again, this this is me talking to people involved in this, is I think they saw this as the trigger. if they could prove they can get them out, that would give the shipping companies the idea that, okay, we can do this, you know, we can go ahead and and start flowing cargo out because insurance is available. I mean, the war risk insurance was taken care of week one. They were able to get themselves that war risk insurance and then the US announced that it could backs stop it, although that's been a a mess of an operation to try to get that going. And I think what they were hoping to do is that was going to convince everybody to kind of make the flow out.

[00:15:42]you know, use this southern route. They were talking about using that southern channel out because they've been doing for weeks now, sending in these unmanned uh underwater vessels that have been going in and sweeping the channel looking for mines. And you know, we finally got recognition from the military that there are mines out there.

[00:16:00]You know, they finally admitted that that that the Iranians have been mining the straight. And so, they've been sweeping that time. And I think what they hope to do was show to the Iranians that listen, the commercial ships are going to start moving. they're they're going to boycott your control of it. The problem is they didn't. And and I think again this goes back to the fact that the US isn't very good at communicating to commercial companies and commercial shipping what needed to be done. There should have been you're saying they wanted the other ships to follow suit with the escort. So they wanted to escort two ships and other ships to go through as well.

[00:16:32]>> I think they wanted to trigger that. I think that was the trigger that they were hoping to do because if if you look there was a warning that came out just before this operation. The UK MTO issued a warning that there was a warning on VHF to the commercial shipping anchored near the straight. And what you saw was the day before the movement took place, a lot of these vessels started sailing away from the straight. They got warned over VHF to basically, you know, put some distance between them and the straight. So obviously the the Iranians either got wind or saw what was about to happen that the Mason and the Truckton the two US destroyers were going to make the run through the straight and that they were going to try to move the you know at least the American ships out. I I think if they had announced that this was just to move the American ships they would have had a victory and they could have just sat there and said listen we showed you we could you know we can move ships through when we want to. But the fact that the US as usual kind of oversold this and said, you know, this is going to open up kind of backfired on them. And and again, it's it's it's, you know, they can do this. They can move a couple of ships at a time. And I think they demonstrated that efficiently. The problem is going to be that there's so much weaponry that the Iranians have that you're never going to see that they can always throw a missile or drone at somebody.

[00:17:44]>> It came at a big cost as well. You saw the Iranians struck a few ships. I think it was off the Emirati coast. One of them was South Korean. Two of them were Amirati, including one to Adnock that that was owned by Adno. And then they struck the Fujira pipeline as well. So the the the refinery there as well. So that that's a pretty significant response from Iran.

[00:18:03]>> Yeah. And and I think that, you know, if if you're the allies, you want some defense there. It's like, okay, you knew you were going to trigger, you know, you're going to provoke, you're going to you're going to poke the bear there.

[00:18:12]You've got to be at least guarding Fujar. You have to make sure. And this comes back to the other issue too because there was just a report out that the US strafed a ship coming into the blockade with an F-18. And I raised the question, it's like, okay, where are the blockading ships? Why are you using an F-18 to strafe a ship? That's that's kind of you can do that >> as in strafe as in what?

[00:18:35]>> As they shot at the rudder. They they basically this this inbound Iranian tanker was coming into the blockade.

[00:18:41]They told it to turn around, not go into the blockade, past the blockade line, and they sent an F-18 Hornet out, and they strafe the stern, shooting at the rudder, which they can do, but that's, you know, it's not the most efficient method, I would argue, to do it. It it's not a precise weapon to use when you're you're flying at 500 knots and you're trying to hit a fairly small target on the stern of the ship. But what that kind of tells me is that, okay, the US Navy is spread kind of thin. they they don't have enough ships or vessels to catch every vessel. So that's why you use an F-18 at that time. And you know, if you send two destroyers into the Persian Gulf, you send the Ford back home. Uh you know, you you can't keep every ship up 100% of the time. You've always got to kind of rotate back.

[00:19:25]>> Yeah.

[00:19:25]>> And and I I think that also shows that the US is a little bit thin. You know, you think they would have had some defenses around Fujara. Everybody knows that this is a huge outload port. And if you look at the new kind of map that the Iranians put out where they're talking about the uh the Persian Gulf Strait Authority, you know, the the the UAE ports fall under that authority.

[00:19:45]Basically, you know, those areas they're talking about, especially the the east coast ports of Fujera and uh I forget the other one's name, but it's right uh is right there. And so I think the UAE probably pushed back a bit. It's like, hey, you started an operation without having enough preparation in place. And I think that's an issue.

[00:20:03]Yeah, the UAE was pretty pissed at what happened, how this unfolded. And even apparently the Saudis did not let the Americans use their base for the Operation Freedom as well. That played a role. I think the Trump had a call with NBS and NBS just stood his ground not to allow the Americans to use the Saudi base. Um, actually, let me read the report. Not sure if you saw that. Uh, there it is. No, that's not it.

[00:20:33]Yeah, I had it I had it open earlier, but yeah. So, there was a report that a senior Oh, there it is. NBC news bombshell.

[00:20:40]Saudi refuses US access to Prince Sultan air base and Saudi airspace for Project Freedom. That's a real reason Trump paused the operation. A direct call between Trump and NBS didn't resolve it.

[00:20:50]Qatar and Oman were also blindsided by the truth social announcement about Project Freedom. The coalition Trump is building has cracks bigger than the headline suggests. Yeah. So, that was a bigger report on it as well. Um, it just seems like a badly prepared operation that has overpromised on what it could actually deliver and then it backfired pretty badly with the Iranians response that the Gulf was not ready for. And I think it's fair to say as well, the Americans were not expecting Iran to respond to that extent. They thought maybe they'd be more restrained to avoid a full-blown conflict, but Iran has shown, at least the way I see it, they shown they're not they're fine with a full-blown war again. fine doing whatever it takes for them to control the straight of homos which then my question to you Sal is is that the new reality now we saw we saw the foreign minister talk after his visit to China he said there's a new framework unfolding now in the region they made a website you saw that they made a website for the straight homes as well and they've sent out an email to all the shipping companies telling them the process to go through the straight how to pay what currency to pay what to put in the agreement >> is that just a reality now or is it all just uh posturing >> no I I think it is because I mean there's documentation I If you talk about shipping and you know there's always paperwork and and they have paperwork. There's a WhatsApp number where you can send everything to. I mean this is they they are becoming like the Suez Canal authority in some ways and kind of setting it up. I I think you're right. I think there's a couple of things at play here. Obviously one of the things that the Iranians and the Americans have recognized that listen there's a ceasefire on land but at sea there's not. It's it's the wild wild west. You can you can shoot at each other and that's what they're doing. I mean obviously the US phrased this project you know it's not an operation.

[00:22:25]It's a project. So, it's it's it's separate from the ceasefire because this is operating outside the bounds of it, which I I I don't buy. You're shooting at each other. There's no ceasefire if you're if you're shooting each other.

[00:22:35]And I think this is what got the Saudis, the Amiradis kind of upset, too. It's like we're getting shot at. We're getting hit and and so there's no ceasefire. I don't know what you're all talking about. And you're provoking this into a larger conflict. But I I do think we're we're creating the norm. I I think the issue you have is does the US just walk away from this at some point? Do they sit there and say, "Listen, we're done." It's like, you know, we've got the deal we want with Iran or we we're in a ceasefire with them. We're we're going to get our stuff from somewhere else. This is the rest of the world's problem. You just had a French the French just moved the carrier group, the Charles de Gaul through the Red through the Suez. They're in the Red Sea.

[00:23:09]Question where they're going. What are they going to be doing? Because the French of all the groups have been the most involved down in the Red Sea escorting ships. They have been very active in escorting ships. They one of the things the one shipping line that has moved through the Red Sea fairly consistently is CAMACGM which is the big French container liner. It's about the third largest in the world. And one of the things that the French have been able to do through CMA CGM is offered kind of dedicated service between Europe and and and Asia with their big container ships. They actually will put a destroyer, a frigot off those ships and sail them between the Red Sea, off the Houthi. I got to note that a couple of weeks ago, CAMACGM worked with the Iranians to get one ship out. Now, this new recent attack on the CAMACGM San Antonio is, you know, if there's disagreement between the US and the and and the French shipping company, do the French come in and start escorting their own ships through because I think that is an interesting play because if the French start doing this independently, what other nations start doing it? Do the Indians, do the Pakistani, do the the >> Japanese? That could be a pro That could be problematic for Iran though. No, >> because then they need to attack. They need to retaliate. They're striking ships of other countries and those countries have been more more, you know, less aggressive towards Iran. So, you don't want to drag them into this. But on the flip side, if you start negotiating with those countries and work out an agreement, does that increase your standing if you're Iran?

[00:24:35]Are you in a better position that you've worked out a deal with Iran? you've I mean with France France with with Japan with Korea with Pakistan it you know elevates up your position gives you more legality in some ways that the you know the Persian you know that this the Persian Gulf straight of Hormuz authority now whatever they're calling it is is more of a legal basian Gulf I think no more no more Hormuz in the name it's the Persian Gulf straits or something >> yeah Persian Gulf Straight Authority I think it is I think that's that's what I saw it as a good have a good acronym Who would have imagined this happening before the war started? Um, I want to go back to the first thing you said when we started talking about the mariners that are there and not being able to get food and water. You spoke to a few of them.

[00:25:19]What's it like being stuck in stuck in this trade home now? How, you know, how do they get water and food? Who delivers it? How?

[00:25:25]>> So, I mean, obviously when this all started, everyone's like, "Well, this will be short, be quick." You know, and and you know, when you're on a ship, you know, a ship the size you showed, you got 20some people on board. Half of them work on on the bridge, half are down the engine room. You got one or two make food for them. So, it's a small crew.

[00:25:39]It's, you know, 20 something 25 people on board tops. And you got enough food on board for depending on how long your voyage is going to be. Every time you come into port, you're getting fresh food on board. They weren't. I mean, so they were burning through there. So, the first thing that that they will all talk about is boredom. They're just bored.

[00:25:55]It's like it's like we're stuck because, you know, a lot of them turn off their their SAC communications. they they did weren't allowed to have access to internet because they didn't want to get any transmissions out. They wanted to go dark. So, they wanted to kind of kind of stay low on the horizon. The other issue is where do you go? You know, where do you go? Uh you can't go into port because the ports don't want you in there. And so, you're out at anchor.

[00:26:15]>> Why why do the ports not want you in there? Sorry.

[00:26:18]>> Well, you you don't want to keep a loaded ship in the port for fear it gets hit. And so, they were sending them out and having them kind of out at anchor there.

[00:26:26]>> And then the weather has been terrible.

[00:26:27]I mean, most people don't even talk about this, but in in in February, February into March and March and April were really nasty weather. So, you got high winds. It's cold. The temperature drop is miserable in that region. You you you jump, you know, you go from 70 degrees, you know, Fahrenheit down to 40 degrees Fahrenheit. So, you get these big huge temperature drops. Uh and and so they were bored. But the big issue is they started consuming fuel. They were they were running low on fuel. Uh so, they're consuming their food. You can't make water on a ship unless you're underway. When you're underway, you use the heat off the engine to create what they call evapa. You have what you call evaporators. You evaporate the salt water. That's how you get fresh water on the ship. But if you're running low on fuel, you can't run, you know, and so they were in that kind of weird position. So what they started to do was all kind of bombard the ports for food and water, but there's a finite amount of barges and tugs that can come out to the anchorages. And plus, you're out in an anchorage in the Persian Gulf. I've been in the Persian Gulf many times. It gets rough. I mean it it can get very rough very quickly out there and when you try to do small boat transfers start moving you know you know produce and things like that it gets difficult then the crews can't get off you're supposed to do crew rotations you know you're on the ship for so many periods of time now you're stuck you can't get because air you know air travel shut down the UAE was the best in trying to support the Mariners they did probably the best job out there to do that there they had airports that opened up they started allowing them to do uh passenger uh rotation uh they also did a lot of security for the ships out in the air and they still do. Uh but they, you know, basically you you're trying to provision 900 ships when really that's not what you were set up to do. A lot of these ships will get food at places other than here. They couldn't get fuel. One of the things I talked to I talked to one ship is like we need fuel. It's like we needed bunker fuel and we couldn't get it. So actually we bought diesel fuel because it was cheaper. Diesel fuel was cheaper than than the normal bunker fuel because there was so much diesel stuck in the Persian Gulf they couldn't get it out.

[00:28:19]So they got it for a deal. So you just create this very unique little environment and then they couldn't communicate and so they couldn't even, you know, tell people at home they're stuck on the boat, couldn't get reliefs.

[00:28:29]Uh and then one of the worst ones was some of the American crews were like we didn't hear anything for weeks from the US government and and they were some of them were mad because the US Navy and the Coast Guard pulled out of the Persian Gulf and they were like if they had told us we could have left. We could have you know we would have been not stuck. We could have been outside the Persian Gulf and and all we needed was a heads up and and I >> heads up about what? Sorry. Heads heads up about what?

[00:28:55]>> To get out before the attack started on February 28th that they >> of course. Yeah. But they come but but the Americans it was a surprise attack.

[00:29:01]So they really couldn't inform them.

[00:29:02]That's the issue.

[00:29:02]>> But but the US Navy moved all their assets out of of the Persian Gulf. Even the Coast Guard cutters, the six Coastg Guard cutters they had at Bahrain, they moved them out. They they moved every boat they had out of the Persian Gulf.

[00:29:15]And you know I if if you're moving everything you could have told a ship, hey recommend you get out of the Persian Gulf. You don't say any words but just you know accelerate your schedule. And so for a lot of mariners that's that's been the issue right now. And of course security there's there's the the security uh you know there's the everpresent drones and and that that you're dealing with. Hasn't been as much obviously recently but at the beginning we saw some very visible attacks off Fujara. We saw some attacks off Bazra up in the northern part of the straight and of course we saw the attacks right in the straight of Hormuz itself. The IMO, the International Maritime Organization has identified 10 dead mariners so far in this attack. One ship definitively sunk and two others that are probably lost.

[00:30:00]>> Oh, there's a ship that sunk. Sorry, I wasn't aware of this. When did a ship sink? How how big was it?

[00:30:04]>> At the very beginning of the conflict, it was one of uh the container ships. Uh so there was there was a a container ship that was hit that uh sank and then another one drifted ashore actually drifted ashore up in up in Iran. It's actually off the coast of Iran on on on the Kish.

[00:30:21]>> That's crazy.

[00:30:21]>> And then there was a >> I'm sorry. There was also a tug that was going out to go provide assistance and that got hit and sunk. So I mean there there were >> sinkings that happened early on.

[00:30:34]>> It just reminds me of the the damage to the American bases. I'm sure you've seen the reports. the initial the initial information we were getting that >> you know the attacks most of them were intercepted the the the bases are fine limited damage and then we started seeing the reports the satellite images that Iran police and and the western western sources were able to verify just shows all the radars that were destroyed the runways the the warehouses that were destroyed across multiple bases was I spoke to former military personnel admirals generals and they were just really upset by it really surprised and upset of how unprepared they were the bases were And you and look, it's looking the same thing in the straits.

[00:31:09]Like there could have been been a lot more that was done to prepare the ships and the mariners for what was to come.

[00:31:16]Um the one that the one that was sunk, what cargo was was in there? Do you know?

[00:31:20]>> I I would have to look back. I'm I'm not I can't remember what the cargo was. It was a I think it was a container ship that was coming out that got hit uh the skylight.

[00:31:29]>> Who owned it? Who owned it?

[00:31:31]>> It was very first one. No, no, no. It was a uh it was a foreign ship. It was it was a small uh a small tanker. It was a small little tanker that was coming out the skylight that came out. Sorry.

[00:31:46]There's about so many ships that got hit in the attack.

[00:31:47]>> Okay. So, it wasn't one of the big ones that we've seen. It wasn't like a massive one. It was small.

[00:31:51]>> No, no, no. And and that that was I think that was the other issue you got to Mario, which is a really important one that I've kind of talked about is is the US really didn't do any preparation at all in the straits for the for the shutdown. I I mean there was no security that was surged into that area. I think if they were able to get into the straight and early on and provide security, they may have been able to keep the straight open to a certain level. Maybe not full level, but what happened on on March 1st was a series of attacks both in the straight and outside the straight and up at the very top of the Persian Gulf off of Kuwait. And that kind of convinced everybody that there's no security, that we really need to to stop these attacks. I mean, we saw unmanned surface vessels strike a vessel out in the Gulf of Oman. We saw these attacks in the Straight of Hormuz. And that's what really created the the security instability that caused everybody to kind of lock up in place.

[00:32:43]And you know what what I would hope the US was going to do in this operation, this project they called, was bring those two ships out and then you know, next day you bring out more ships and maybe you increase the the volume. You know, you you you you know, or >> they couldn't. Yeah, maybe that maybe that was part of the plan, but as soon as the as soon as Iran struck the Gulf the way they did, they struck Dubai the way they they did and then struck the vessels, they're like, "All right, cool.

[00:33:05]The cost benefit analysis makes this a really bad idea now. Could have been a good idea if Iran has shown restraint, but Iran didn't show restraint because they've shown restraint before this war and it backfired badly on them is probably a lot of people are saying the reason that the US thought this war, this entire war was a good idea is Iran has shown restraint time and time again.

[00:33:22]They thought this time they'll show restraint again." And remember Trump is like I was surprised they attacked the Gulf. I was surprised they closed the straight of Hummus. Um they didn't even they didn't just close the straight of Hummus and attack the Gulf. They pummeled the Gulf and mind the Shre. So they went they went a step above worst case scenario. Um I want to go back to that day the 3 days ago. And by the way I I just I want to also go through the scenario of what it would take to open the trade of Hamus militarily because that scenario is still on the table. If you look at the updates on a daily basis, both sides are far from a deal.

[00:33:52]If you listen to the rhetoric, the Iranians, the demands on the Iranian side, the demands on the American side, even though there's like a ceasefire now that was breached three days ago, doesn't look like they're getting closer to a deal. And um Political said something interesting. There it is.

[00:34:07]According to a Gulf Arab official, political said political political, sorry, Trump badly wants the war to end, but the Iranians are so far refusing to give him what he needs to say, face, and leave. and he does not seem to understand that they need to save face too. So there's not even an understanding on on on allowing the other side to save face let alone agreeing on the terms. Um so before we talk about militarily opening the trade of hummus in the scenario of controlling some of the islands you remember amphibious operation to control some of the islands and built like a buffer zone. I have one more question about the events three days ago. I I was I wish I had you on the show then. So I was um when operation freedom happened I next day I was you know I was getting my head shaved and I suddenly get um what was it I get a report that one of the American warships was two missiles were fired and struck it. I came from the Iranian sources so I took it with a grain of salt but I'm like right things are escalating and then as I started doing my lives early on I start getting the alerts the the uh the UAE alerts. I haven't had them since the war and it comes and then half an hour half an hour later comes again two hours later again.

[00:35:10]It's like five um waves of attacks. Now, the attacks were all from what I understand were all on vessels off the coast and then Fujer was the big one that that um surprised everybody. Do you think first what's your analysis of the entire attack and do you think Fuja was struck intentionally or or maybe there was a a vessel there and they missed it?

[00:35:30]How hard is it to to get the coordinates right to strike a vessel in your opinion? No, I I think I think their target I I think when you do this operation and you have a ceasefire on land, you're you're doing this with one arm behind your back because the US has not been able to hit any of the shore-based facilities. They, you know, normally they would have, if you're going to run the ships through, you would put, you know, aircraft over the coast. You would have monitoring and and anything that popped its head up, you would you would hit it fast and knock it down. And they couldn't do that because you're in the middle of a ceasefire. A ceasefire that's allowed Iran to, you know, restore things. They've they've been flying stuff in. Uh the Caspian Sea still wide open. So, I mean, there's there's there's ships coming down from Russia on the Caspian Sea side. So, you've got that supply line that that that has been open the entire time. The Israelis hit that like in the first couple of days of the war back in March, but they haven't done it since. So, I I I think they they intentionally targeted. Again, what if you think about it, if you're the Iranians and you're watching that the Americans are going to run their two ships through and they're sitting there talking about that we're doing this for humanitarian reasons, we're going to help all these other ships through. What do you do? You start swacking ships so that they don't get the idea. You know, you kind of, you know, it's the puppy dog that's that's peeing on the rug. You know, you give them a hit a hit on the nose. You tell them don't do anything. Don't move. And that's what they did. They they hit the South Korean ship, the HMM ship. they hit they hit the uh the gas carrier coming out and then hitting Fujara again is the key thing because that's within range of them. They can hit that and they know that that's the vulnerability for the UAE. UAE has been making a lot of money. You know, they've been getting hit hard by the Iranians, but they're also making money right now. You know, they left OPEC. They they they've upped their production. They've got the pipeline. They know.

[00:37:09]>> Isn't there limits? Isn't there limits to That's an interesting point. But there's limits to how much they could export through Fujiro. They want to export up to 5 million barrels. I think for Jera is less than 2 million they can get out of there. No, >> it is. But I mean, if you look at their limits from OPEC, where are they at compared to what their limits were under OPEC at the time? And so >> 3 point something, I think. But then if you put the price increase, maybe that makes up for it. Interesting.

[00:37:30]>> And and and and they're well, they're filling a a niche right now that's not coming out of the Persian Gulf. And and plus they have the potential here for other oil to come out from some of the Gulf states into them to fill out, too.

[00:37:40]So I I I think that was a very targeted hit. And I think that also demonstrates the fact that they understand the infrastructure in Fujera. They they know what to hit, what not to hit. And I think that was a kind of shot across the bow. And I think it it it provoked the reaction you talked about from Saudi Arabia, from the UAE. It's like, okay, if you're going to do this operation, then you can't do it with one arm arm tied behind your back. You have to take out the Iranian shore facilities that are launching these styles of attacks.

[00:38:07]And and it it's it was just an operation. And again, not even an operation, a project, which I've never heard before used by the US military, a project. You know, every project is like, okay, we're going to we're going to build a house or we're going to, you know, we're going to we're going to cut the grass. It's not, you know, a military operation. And and it doesn't generate what they need. And and instead, what it does is cause more chaos now. And what you had was major shipping advisory for firms come out and say, don't do anything because we don't know what the Americans are talking about. And that's the worst thing. That was the worst thing that can happen is is just create more risk and doubt into shipping and and we saw and I mean this this coincided by the way with a series of of of quarter calls from the major shipping firms. So everybody was having their first quarter calls you know this beginning of this week. So everyone's coming back in Mar this is why Mar said what they did because they had their first quarter call and they're talking about their profit base and and so all the shipping firms.

[00:38:58]>> What did M say what did Mer say? Oh sorry I thought you said Mertz the the chancellor of Germany. You married the shipping company. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:39:05]>> Yeah. It's >> $10 an extra cost per day. That's a lot of money, >> right? But and and I always be careful about what the shipping lines say because the shipping lines will will cry cry cry, but at the same time they're looking at profit. So, you know, they they also know it's like, okay, you know, this is this is horrible, horrible, but we're, you know, we're jacking up our rates because if you listen to them before this war, 2026 was not looking like a great year for them.

[00:39:27]Now, actually, if you start looking at their profits, I'll be interested to see what second quarter looks like versus uh what their projected uh numbers are because they're selling longer distances, they they've got to move more cargo in different ways. And and anytime you move something a longer distance, that's more cost. That's more money for them.

[00:39:45]Um All right. So, I want to go talk to about the the Caspian Sea as well. You talked about how Iran can get things in and out of the Caspian Sea. From what I understand, they can't get oil through there. They don't have the facilities for that. Correct. No, but they can get supplies through. So I I I mean again, one of the things we saw was very early on, one of the very first ships the US shot at was a container ship coming in.

[00:40:04]Well, they can go that over. They can go the Caspian Sea route.

[00:40:07]>> Container the container ship that was coming in from the Caspian.

[00:40:10]>> No, no, it was coming in from the Indian Ocean.

[00:40:13]>> And so that that was the one that the US shot at back in midappril there. The the Tusca was the ship that they shot at.

[00:40:20]But they still have that supply line through the Caspian Sea. Now they can't get oil out. You're exactly right about that. but they can get supplies in. And more importantly, if you're a run and you need to restock drones, you need to restock military hardware, you can definitely get it in. And obviously, there's still the air route coming in that they can use.

[00:40:37]>> Um, also there's apparently six corridors that Pakistan opened for for Iran to be able to get their exports out. Now, from what I understand as well, their ability to export oil on land is also very limited. So, the Iran does need a straight home open. Is that accurate? I did see videos of them trying to smuggle oil on on like motorbikes and cars like thousands of cars lined up on on one of those corridors on the border between um Pakistan and Iran. I think it's called Bulichan. Um but it's if you can't compare that to the to the big cargo ships that go through the straight home.

[00:41:11]Yeah.

[00:41:11]>> No. When you when you start talking you go back to the super tanker you showed in the beginning a 2 million barrel super tanker. There's 42 gallons in a barrel. You're talking about 840 million gallons. you know, how much how much fuel can you put in the back of a pickup? I mean, so how many it gets it gets to be, you know, it's big numbers, but there's and there's no pipelines.

[00:41:30]There's no alternatives that's on land.

[00:41:32]They obviously there's always pipelines, but they don't have any built because of the sanctions. So, from what I know, Iran doesn't really have an alternative to the shadow of Hammuz. Well, the alternative the Iranians are using, bud, is the coastal waters. And this is the other big element there because of because of the 12 mile limits and you have the port of uh uh Charbar, which is right there at the Iranian Pakistan border. What you can do is is run through the Iranian coastal waters right in the Pakistan waters. And this is what we're seeing Pakistan, India, you can run that coastline in there and and run around the straight. So we're still seeing some ships pop up every >> avoiding just for the audience avoiding international waters. So that that coastline which is sovereign territory of Pakistan but do the Americans really give a won't they can't they intercept the ship in those waters? They will not violate Pakistan because Pakistan is where they're trying to do this this uh mediation with. So they're not going to anger Pakistan. They're not going to anger India because they're trying to get the Indians to shift. One of the big things is there's eight super tankers heading to India right now from Venezuela. So, I mean, they they've, you know, they've got Venezuela pumping out oil now, trying to replace what what they were getting from from the Persian Gulf.

[00:42:39]>> Wild world, man. What a wild world we're living. That is crazy.

[00:42:42]>> It's Well, I mean, the US was getting 250 million barrels of oil from the Persian Gulf every year. You keep hearing, you know, heath and these guys say, "We get nothing from the Persian Gulf." We do. 8% of our imports were coming in from the Persian Gulf. But if you get >> We replace that with Venezuela. Exactly.

[00:42:58]I was going to start >> exactly exactly what you can do because not only do you replace you don't have to replace the thing about Venezuela it's close it's it's it's like a five-day voyage so I mean you can just put a tanker or two in there and you can get max amount of cargo whereas 55 days to go from Rostown anora to Houston well it's it's five to six days to go to Venezuela and and now all of a sudden you can start pulling that oil out of Venezuela and and especially Venezuelan crude is great for the United States it's that nice big you know it's that sour you know heavy heavy crude that they love the dark crude which can you know go into our refineries without a problem and and that's what you see happening right now that works really well and then you can export American you know light uh sweet crude out which doesn't work in our refineries but it's needed overseas and you know there's a whole economic element in here that that you start looking at it and and it's really interesting of how it's playing out >> is the US profiting from all this from an from an energy perspective >> true >> Chevron and Exxon just came out with their numbers and they did profit I mean so They're talking about making profits, you know, through that. If you look at the exports out, I mean, we've gone from exporting 4 million barrels per day up to almost 6 million barrels per day. So, I mean, for the United States, this is >> increase, >> 50% increase. But the issue obviously is in the United States, you're seeing the same thing you're seeing everywhere else. The draw on gasoline, refined product, kerosene, aviation fuel, diesel is huge. And that's why you're seeing the price escalation in the United States. But that price escalation is nowhere near what you're seeing the rest of the world. Obviously, you're seeing a much bigger spike. But the draw is is coming out. I mean, you're pulling gasoline out of New Jersey and you're shi shipping it over to to Europe, for example, because hey, you know, I can get $5 a gallon, you know, in in New Jersey for diesel, but I can get $8 in France. So, if I load it on a tanker and send it across, I'm a fuel speculator.

[00:44:50]That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to start moving that. But we start running into some issues because for example, aviation fuel, uh, liqufied natural gas, we're seeing the Panama Canal start experiencing slowdowns because of of of the traffic building up there. So if you got to go back fill into Asia, >> you can only move 32 to 36 ships a day through the Panama Canal.

[00:45:12]>> And so Panama, for example, has has did did what they did a few years ago when they had low water is they're bidding out slots. You can buy a slot. You can move to the front of the line. It's like getting into the the exclusive club. You know, pay a couple of million dollars and you jump to the head of the line.

[00:45:26]And now you're an LG carrier. I can pay $4 million, jump to the head of the line. I'm not sitting there for a week.

[00:45:32]I get to the front and now I could deliver my liquified natural gas to Japan or Korea for a massive profit.

[00:45:39]>> Man, these guys are printing money.

[00:45:41]>> So, I I'll give you a good a quick example here real quick.

[00:45:44]>> Yeah. Yeah. If you have a small tanker, I mean, not a big one like you showed, but I'm talking about maybe maybe a a 80,000 ton tanker, this is what you move clean product in. You move gasoline, you move diesel fuel in it. So, the big the big ones move crude, but on smaller ones, you move clean stuff. And and clean stuff means you have to have a clean tank. You you can't put, you know, diesel fuel in on top of crude oil.

[00:46:05]Those ships are designed for short distances. You know, you go from, you know, Texas to Florida, you run maybe a couple of thousand miles. They are taking those ships, loading them with gas and aviation, sending them to Asia.

[00:46:16]Now, the problem is you come back empty.

[00:46:18]So, you're, you know, half your voyage is always empty. You wouldn't do that voyage because it's too far. You're only getting an X amount of voyages. Whereas in a shorter distance, you're making more. They are making so much money on those long distances. It doesn't matter.

[00:46:31]They don't care. They they they'll they will sell 60 days and then sail back 60 days empty because they're making so much money. They don't need to do three three quick runs. they could do one long run and make all their profit on that one long run. That's that's how we're this is changing the flow of of traffic on the world's ocean right now.

[00:46:52]Um, another quick one. You know how do you remember that ship that was intercepted a few weeks ago now by the US when they put up the blockade and they said they intercepted a ship coming in from China that had a gift that is classified.

[00:47:04]>> What do you think that gift was? Is there anything any any any information you have that that is not out there? So that was the ship, the Tusca that the Spruuins.

[00:47:12]>> Oh, that's the Tuska you're talking about.

[00:47:15]>> So I think that that was the ship they were looking at. The problem they had is is, you know, on a container ship that the boxes are locked and loaded. You can't get into them. It's very difficult. It's not like you can hop on board a ship and take a look at every every container on board and and you got to bring it into a port. You got to offload it. And I don't think they had that mechanism in place to do that.

[00:47:35]That's one of the reasons why they turned the ship back over to the Pakistanis because Pakistan is going to take the ship and and and take it. You would actually have to bring it into a port and I don't think Oman, the UAE was going to let them bring that ship in because it was going to create too much problems for them. And so instead, they disabled the ship and what they hope to do is kind of keep it out of, you know, out of the Iranian hands for as long as they can until this conflict gets resolved. So I I >> Do you think it was Do you think it was military equipment?

[00:48:02]>> I'm sure that there was military equipment. I mean these ships I mean Iran operates its own container line because of sanctions and everything.

[00:48:08]They run their own set line and it runs from China back to Iran. So I I'm sure that there's a whole ton of equipment on there that and if you look at the contraband list that the US put out. I mean they I mean they they put it equipment on contraband. So I mean if you're getting a router it's contraband in the United States.

[00:48:25]>> That's crazy.

[00:48:27]Um the last thing I want to ask you about is the militarily opening the straight home. So there was a a talk in uh early in the war late in the war actually to open the trade of homes militarily and that's by controlling by invading some of the islands between the UAE and uh and um and Iran. One of them was Keshim which is the hardest one the biggest one there smaller ones like Al Tunoo or Tun Tun bigger or something like that and one more called Abu Musa Island.

[00:48:53]>> Does that work militarily if you if you do invade these islands? Could you build up an a defense system to be able to protect the ships going through or that's uh it could end up a big failure like Project Freedom?

[00:49:03]>> No, I I think you could. I mean, one of the things early on I talked about was that is you create these little kind of bubbles around them. So, you have these little safe zones. So, you know, they're unsinkable aircraft carriers. You don't you know, you don't have to, you know, be on a boat. You're safe there. You can put air base on there, helicopters, drones. You can put shorebased missiles on there. You can operate small boats from there. I think they create that.

[00:49:25]Plus, I mean, they're also contested between Iran and UAE. UAE makes claims to that. So, that UAE would love to get those islands back under obviously their sphere. I I think Kisham Lar create other problems because the populations on there. That's the issue. These literal islands have if any population very small on them. And so, I do think they that is a potential. If you look at Marine Corps doctrine, one of the things that the Marine Corps have been developing over the past few years is this this concept of expeditionary advanced base operations, what they call EABO, because the Marines have to have an acronym for everything. But basically, you set up these little bases. They're they were planning this for China along the first island chain, go into Taiwan, and more importantly, the little islands that are all scattered there. They've been around off the coast of China right there. Little tiny little, you know, just rocks sticking up out of the water there. And what they would do is put a couple of Marines on there with some, you know, missile batteries, you know, some drones, and they're able to, you know, exert control around them. I I think if you do that, and you take the southern shore of the Persian Gulf, UAE territory, I'm not sure Oman's going to let you do anything. Oman, you know, is obviously not really 100% with the United States for obvious reasons, but you can then create this because the ships create the liability for them. You know, the ship is always the problem that you get worried about ships like the Truckton and the Mason getting swarmed like you had in your video. I mean, you're always worried about that swarm. They have a finite amount of weaponry on board. They have a finite amount of fuel. They can only stay in that area for for a set period of time and then you have to pull them out and rotate them. Uh, you know, and and the problem the US has is reloading those vessels. You got to go all the way back to Diego Garcia, which is several thousand miles away in the middle of the Indian Ocean. And then you only have a handful of those destroyers. And so, you know, the islands are are are good because you don't have to worry about number one, you can't sink them. On the flip side, >> they are fixed points, which means they can be targeted like crazy and and and you know, the Iranians can bring them under >> constant, you know, this is what we learned in Iraq and Afghanistan when you create these forward operating bases.

[00:51:25]You know, they're good bases to operate from, but you're also everybody knows where you are and you can't hide. And and so if the US wants to force the straight, that is a concentrated effort.

[00:51:36]I can't believe they would try to force this straight without the ceasefire being off because they they've got to hit the shore the shore side. I mean, you have to worry about shore-based missiles. If if if the CMA CGM San Antonio was hit by a cruise missile, for example, then you've got to deal with shorebased cruise missiles and and and you can't sit there and say, "Well, we're in a ceasefire. We can't deal with them." And does that what does that do for your your negotiation deal, which is again 24 hours away that we keep hearing for weeks now?

[00:52:05]Man, I really enjoyed this conversation.

[00:52:07]You do know a lot about shipping. So, everyone >> I know ship. I know a lot of ship.

[00:52:12]>> You know a lot about ship, man. Um, look, man, I really appreciate the conversation. I' I'd love to do it again as this continues. And, um, I'd love to talk to some of the mariners that were able to get out. If there's anyone that wants to come on the show, that would be interesting to have a quick discussion, 20-minut discussion. There's there's been a batch that gotten off and I will see what I can do for you because uh some of them are it's very it's a very interesting scenario because some of them are very leerary of talking publicly obviously because they worry about jobs and and getting jobs again.

[00:52:37]But I will tell you that that one of the things we saw back in 2020 with COVID hit a lot of mariners very similar situation got stuck on boats. They couldn't get off and and what happened back in 2020 was a lot of mariners just left the industry. They didn't come back. And I I'm going to tell you right now, there's probably going to be a lot in this situation that have been dealing with getting shot at, if not in the Red Sea, in the Black Sea, now in the Persian Gulf. Uh you're probably going to have a lot of people who are sitting there and going, I'm, you know, go work at Starbucks. It's >> I don't I don't blame them, man. I don't blame them. It's a traumatic experience.

[00:53:06]>> Yep. Imagining them sitting on a ship without internet, without nothing, trying to figure out how to get food and water and hoping they don't get shot at.

[00:53:13]Not a good life for weeks and weeks and still ongoing right now. People don't forget that ships are still stuck there right now. this a ceasefire, but for the for the Mariners, the ceasefire doesn't mean much except, hey, maybe we won't get struck. So, um, >> that yellow fleet moniker is is a really dark one because like I said, those ships were stuck in the Persian stuck in the Suez Canal in the Great Bitter Lake for eight years. And two ships and there were two ships that actually kept crews on board. They rotated them eventually, but they they stayed but for a part of it for for a year, uh, the crews stayed on the ship. There were about I want to say there's about almost two dozen ships that were there. It was really interesting because the crews were from different countries. They they worked together and everything. It was 1968.

[00:53:53]They actually staged their own Olympics when they were in there because they were from different nationalities. So they had some different uh sports they did and uh they were able >> It's crazy because they didn't have they didn't have internet back then. So it would >> No, they were they were just trying trying to stay they kept thinking, you know, hey, this will end, this will end, this will end. And and it it didn't end.

[00:54:10]And finally most of the ships got they pulled the crews off they abandoned the ships but there were two German ships West German ships that the Germans were not going to allow the to leave. So they kept sending crews out rotating them and eventually they sailed them out in 1973 or 75.

[00:54:25]>> They kept rotating the crews for eight years.

[00:54:28]>> Yeah. Yep. Kept the kept the small crew on it the whole time.

[00:54:31]>> That's wild. Well hopefully we don't get the same scenario here man because based on the negotiations it's at least going to be a few more weeks. Um S pleasure to have you man. Thank you, >> M. Thanks for having me again. It's always a pleasure.

[00:54:43]>> Pleasure is mine. All right, everyone.

[00:54:44]We've got Pravin coming on now. I'll be going live in the next couple of minutes. In about 2, three minutes, I'll be going live uh with our regular guest Pravin to discuss the meeting between she and Trump, the latest developments when it comes to the negotiations and and uh more importantly, what happened 3 days ago and what that means. I think people don't understand the consequences of the back and forth that happened uh um three three days ago with Operation Freedom and how Iran retaliated. And also I'll ask the question I've been asking for a while is why the UAE? What what does that mean in into in Gulf relations and Iranian UAE relations and more importantly Iranian posturing in the region. So it's going to be a great discussion. I'll see you guys in a couple of minutes. Bye.