Real estate investing offers advantages including leverage, cash flow, tax benefits, and faster returns, while stocks provide easier entry, instant diversification, and passive management; the optimal strategy depends on individual circumstances, risk tolerance, and financial goals, with successful investors often combining both asset classes.
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All right, we are live everyone. Uh, this is a special live stream and this will be uh replayed on one rental at a time, Michael Zuber's channel. Um, when it uh is ready to be put out, but I have the one and only Dion. And as you see, Matt the Lumberjack landlord is not here right now. Um, hopefully he's able to jump on. But Dion, thanks for joining me this morning.
>> Oh, I appreciate it. I know that when Matt saw it was debate style and he knew I was the other side of the debate, he said I'm not coming on there. Maybe he's working up the nerve and he'll show up in a few minutes. We'll see.
>> So, this is just to clarify, this is not well, it'll probably end up being a debate. Uh, but a lot of we're going to go through some of the the comments that come through Zuber's channel and any that I've seen on X and maybe some short clips on Instagram that I think Dion people like to hear different perspectives on them. Um, but there is uh one that because it's they were talking about um David Green yesterday.
uh the three amigos, they were talking about David Green and the pyramid. Um they're talking about investing. Um but David Green and Brandon Turner were a big part of Bigger Pockets and they probably kind of went down that same struggle seems like the past few years.
But I'm going to play this clip about someone talking about uh Brandon Turner recently and we'll see what Dion thinks about it.
an interner's fund, their class B investors for a specific Houston property lost 100% of class B investors money.
>> Ouch.
>> Total loss.
>> Which is crazy.
>> I think the biggest thing to put there is like one, he was really pissed about like the communication aspect. Like clearly it was going downhill before they said anything. And Brandon being on podcast saying like I work an hour a day and like wasn't taking his >> All right. So there we go. Um, if people don't know, Brandon Turner did some they did syndications and there was a period of time and even I lost a lot of money in a syndication, but uh, did you invest in any syndications, Dion? And what's your thoughts on that little short clip?
>> No, syndications really hit my radar around 2020. That's when everybody started throwing their money into syndications. Rates came so low. People were projecting rents to continue to increase, rates to continue to stay low.
And uh I got this is there is some luck involved in my story. I I have some friends who are very affluent. They own companies. They make a lot of money and they ask me sometimes about rentals and they've tried it a couple times, but it's really not their thing because they make so much more money when they invest in their businesses than owning a rental that makes it one or $2,000 a month in profit. It's not even a rounding error for them. But I told him, "Well, if you want to get into real estate instead of owning rentals, maybe you put a bunch of money into syndications." And at the time, I had just been on Bigger Pockets.
I was I'm still a fan of Brandon Turner, David Green, all the, you know, the people that have been on there, uh, the people that are still I'm a Mindy Jensen fan. I tell that to everybody. Um, so I told him, "Hey, this Brandon Turner guy, he's investing in Texas and he's got some syndications he's starting or involved with." And luckily my friends didn't invest in those syndications because Brandon was on one rental at a time about six months ago talking about how out of three of them, two of them have dropped in valuation to where all investors dropped to zero and the other one they're at 50%. So those were his own words on that video. Uh I think syndications is like an appreciation play.
So I talk often about the burr strategy is a solid investing strategy. Flipping is a solid way of generating income.
They are terrible strategies to start with, right? Because if if you take big risks in the beginning when we make our big mistakes, those can be investing enders. Well, syndications, if you have no investments and you put your money into syndication and it drops to zero, that's an investing ender. If you have a large portfolio, several rentals or a big stock portfolio, and you allocate a small percentage, somewhere like 1 to 5% of your overall gross worth or maybe net worth, now it's just a gamble that you can afford it to drop to zero and you can benefit if it has a, you know, a good upside.
>> Yeah, absolutely. like like I talked about a few times and I I invested in this syndication for those very reasons.
Uh kind of was so that it was hands completely hands off. Uh you know you're going to make uh quarterly you know payments um appreciation you're getting all this investor money so you're getting a bigger asset. U but it pretty much went exactly how how Zuber uh presented it. you know, a lot of people were newer operators, uh, and they, you know, had these 5% rent increases every year. Um, you know, and so it's just, um, yeah, it it was a good learning experience, as I like to say. But, uh, probably wouldn't probably won't do a syndication again. I think I just I'd like to have more control. That would be my short take on it.
>> Well, if you do get into a syndication, I would I would take the advice that we quote from Thatch Newan often. Do you remember?
Um I I don't know the exact way he put it, but it was more about uh the the bigger the name, the more cost or expensive is going to be or to some extent like that.
>> Very very similar. Yeah. The bigger the name, the smaller the return. So when you look for a syndication, look for somebody who's done deal after deal after deal after deal and they're not famous because of YouTube. They're well known because of their deal success.
>> Um before we move on, let me let me see if you have a thought on this. So I I do So other people that did lose money like myself in these syndications that that I was in, their thought was and they still like that model. So their thought was if I'm going to do another syndication, I'm going to make sure that there is like a family offices or big players that are also investing in this syndication so that when it the [ __ ] hits the fan, maybe there is someone that has the capital that's willing to save this project or uh you know because a lot of times these syndications were these mom and pop investors like oh you have 50,000 your money is going to be better used here. So people put in their capital and then now when there was uh struggles and they want a capital call then these people are like I don't have this extra money to throw in per se. So I don't do you have any thoughts on that?
>> Well if there's ever a capital call and you're not the person putting in the capital your your position gets diluted so much it's a bad investment still. So I wouldn't look at it that way as a as a way to fix the problem. One thing that Brandon Turner did say on Bigger Pockets before he left there was the reason he enjoys syndications is because you have to work with accredited investors and he doesn't want to take the mom and pop's last total $50,000 life investment and lose it. But the super wealthy person, if he loses their $50,000, he was okay with that. And I don't I don't think that's a good reason to throw your money at that.
>> Hey, you got a B mug, too.
You have to >> I saw there um six new states are going to be having uh BIES locations I believe.
>> Yeah. When I drove here, I went through California to see family and I saw the first sign. It said BIES 1327 miles.
>> Yeah. Um so we are live streaming. Uh Dion's also live streaming on his channel. Um but please uh throw your questions and or comments if you have any, throw them in the chat and we'll try to break it down. I mean, it was it was a debate on real estate versus stocks. I'm gonna be the pro stocks guy.
I've got 20 reasons why stocks win every time.
>> So, hopefully if Matt doesn't show up, we'll do that another day.
>> Well, do you want to do you want to quickly Well, so this is the the one comment that really caught my eye on on Zuber's um video at Danberg. Time to sell everything. So, this is kind of where it all So, maybe if you have something you can touch on real quick about it. So, this individual says, "The stock market is going to blow out any investment you make in real estate for the next 5 years easy. That's the real reality. No one's having kids anymore.
The population is in decline. You'd have to be an idiot not to see what's going on right now.
Stocks in the form are like crypto. They have value because other people want them. So, you have to talk good about stocks if that's where your money's at.
And I don't have a problem with either.
Uh, someone will invest successfully in every market and every asset class and people are going to lose money. It's the person who educates themselves and masters their asset class that's going to do the best. I've made many videos comparing stocks to real estate and as far as a return goes, real estate always wins because you have leverage, not margin. You have appreciation on more than your money.
You have depreciation, tax benefits, you have principal payown, you have cash flow, right? So, if people watch my content or understand why I chose real estate, the return wasn't why. If if I had decades for compound interest to do its thing and I was a high enough earner to where I had a significant amount to invest, I probably would have went the stocks route. Like, I don't want to own rentals. I want financial freedom. I didn't start working on money until I was 40. Like that's when I started thinking, okay, how do I put money to work? And I wanted to do it in about a decade. That's not how stocks work.
Stocks take longer. Even Joe [ __ ] that I reference all the time whenever stocks come up because he's got great information and a really a good way of putting the information out there. He retired at 54 after like 37 years of investing in stocks.
That's probably the best route for him.
And he did work in some live-in flips.
So he took money from real estate, not rentals, and put that money to work in stocks, too.
So, >> um Bradley S. Taylor from your channel saying, "Real estate is hands-on. I don't invest unless I can touch and control it." Uh Chris Webb says, "Stocks verse real estate. The key for me is the leverage in real estate, so I focus on it rather than stocks." Hey, and Cody's here. So, Cody says, "Real estate is a vehicle to obtain tax-free money that you don't pay for. Good luck doing that in stocks consistently in the beginning.
Well, I can give my 20 reasons why stocks win, but I don't want to do that because that will give Matt the opportunity to prepare and I want to debate him on tell me how I'm wrong because that's that's the benefit of debating. If you can't put yourself on the other position and argue their position, you shouldn't be in the debate.
>> Hey, Stan's here. Uh he's he's someone that's always traveling around the world. So, he's someone uh comes on the channel every when he's in the in the in New Orleans when he's back home. But it's hard to get him on because he's always somewhere in the country work. I he's doing a lot of times is for work, but he's traveling around. Uh but a major consideration for stocks versus what they say is how passive you want to be stocks.
>> Well, I mean, so there's that's part of the argument, but this is why the proof that stocks uh perform better when they're passive. And I've said this in videos, too. The highest performing stocks, based on several studies, belong to people who died. The second highest performing belonged to people who forgot they had the portfolio. And the third highest performing was ran by a cat named Orlando. So, the the more passive you make stock investing, the better it can perform.
And to that point, um, if anyone hasn't seen the most recent, uh, Three Amigos video that Zuber put out on this channel, uh, that was one I definitely recommend you watch. It's it's they broke down a David Green and Rou video talking about their pyramid and building a real estate portfolio. And there was a lot of people were people I love the energy in it, but people were amazed.
Zuber dropped an F-bomb. Dion said, "I want to clap back." And people were like people just enjoyed that one. But, uh, there was also something you said on there at the end that I think maybe a shirt's going to be coming out possibly, but it was, um, your investing needs to be boring so that your life can be exciting, right? Is that kind of how it was?
>> Yeah, it was actually it was just a random thought towards the end and Zuber picked up on it and had me repeat it.
So, it's probably going to be an upcoming video on my channel where I explain what I meant by investing has to be boring. I mean, how boring is it for the people who are just in the comments to go, I'm going to go to payroll and I'm going to set up $250 uh a paycheck that goes into this fund or into this account that I invest in stocks. Like, you set it up once, it's all front end loaded and then you never think about it again and your stock portfolio grows. How boring is that? But how exciting is it 10 or 20 or 30 years later when you go to that and you think, "Wow, I never thought about this money.
It came out first like taxes does and there's a million or$2 million dollars in this account. To be excited, it takes being really boring to get there.
Hey, Gus is here. Gus was uh my my Tuesday regular guest, but Gus says, "Real estate over stocks. Dion moving around the country because of real estate."
Um Chris Webb says, "Isn't that the new way to debate?" You're wrong. No, I'm not.
You're a blank German from the 1930s.
>> Yes. I got a message from Matt. Let me see what he's saying here. You still need me. Sorry. Was finishing eviction.
It's why you don't have to evict anybody with stocks.
>> Yeah. Tell us if you jump on. Uh yeah.
Um while he while we're waiting for him uh may maybe I'll bring up this one then and you can since so uh Zuber did a reaction video with uh Beth Traverso u talking about um Katie Wilson the mayor in Seattle I believe. Um so I'm not sure how familiar you are with her Dion but one of the comments towards Zuber was Michael where do you get your biofax on Katie Wilson? I'm with you that her mocking and wanting millionaires to leave is stupid and ridiculous. But how you're depicting her isn't even close to accurate. You can you can think someone is smart and able to organize people well, but think their ideas are dead wrong. You're falling into the classic trap of underestimating your opponent.
Matt will be on in a minute. Well, we're anything we've based said that we've about Kate has been based on what she said during interviews. I have to live with my parents. I haven't had a full-time job. These are words from her mouth. It's not like we're going, "Oh, somebody said this." No, we're saying she said this.
And then we have examples of the person in New York who several years ago said, "Hey, if you're super rich and you don't like our taxes, go to Florida where you belong." And then now she's going, "Hey, come back. Please bring a friend." And we can see that on the wall. Kate just laughed at millionaires and said I don't think people are going to move away.
I'm not even in the tax bracket of the people who are going to move away and I'm moving away because I know it's coming to our tax bracket soon enough.
So, it's almost like we've had evidence proven over and over and over again that when people like her get in office and say and do the things she's saying and doing protesting and company. I was I've been in the Marines and I've been in law enforcement. You are not allowed to have an opinion publicly and be affiliated with law enforcement or the military, but she can hold a public office and protest a company based in her area.
Crazy.
>> Oh. All right, let the fireworks begin.
>> Wind blown. Wind blown.
>> Oh, it was been a morning. two evictions and got them all wrapped up and done and one went super easy and one didn't.
>> Did I tell you how my eviction went, Matt?
>> No, >> I did cash for keys instead and resolved it.
>> I hate that.
>> I know. I hate it. But it was the guy's life imploded and I know these things that happened and I was like, >> I'll feel better >> because just as a human if I go this route instead of through the eviction route. Yeah, this one >> if they just choose to not pay because they're just dicks about it, I would absolutely do an eviction and pursue everything. One of those opposite cases.
>> This one was three years in the making.
It was three years in the making. So they and it was three years after they they hadn't paid their mortgage in three years. And so when I bought it back from them or when I bought it from I basically bought it from the the bank to save them, um they had a $103,000 balance that ended up being $147,000 bill because they hadn't paid their mortgage and all the penalties and all the stuff that um that went with it. Um so yeah, just absolute craziness.
Absolute craziness. But yeah, we're done. uh they're out and now the next next seven days is going to be interesting.
>> At the beginning of this video, since the title and thumbnail were a debate versus, you know, real estate versus stocks and I'm taking the stock side, I of course let everybody know you were just afraid and you didn't show up and maybe you'll show up a few minutes late once you build the courage to debate me on this. But actually, >> my thought process my thought process was I probably only needed about 30 seconds to prove you wrong. So, what I wanted, >> so it didn't matter talking points. I want you to debate >> and just I want you to prove me wrong.
That's the goal.
>> Um Okay.
>> But I want you to see uh two sides to the coin.
>> Okay. Y >> Matt, let me let me just read you this kind of where this all started though.
There was a comment on uh one of Zuber's videos, his time to sell everything with with Dan Bird. So, um, this individual said, "The stock market is going to blow out any investment you make in real estate for the next 5 years." Easy.
That's the real reality. No one's having kids anymore. The population is in decline. You would have to be an idiot not to see what's going on right now.
>> Who said that?
>> Bobby 716.
>> Oh, okay. So, someone that's going to someone that's at work right now.
Just making sure. Somebody that's still work like right now. They're at work and maybe they'll catch this on their lunch break. Oh, it's not live, so that's probably not going to happen.
>> No, this is live. It's live on my channel and Mark's channel and then going to be replayed on Zub channel.
>> Oh, so even better. So, uh, well, you're watching this on your lunch break, um, that you're having to take from the man.
Uh, it's just patently wrong. So, the the the lack of sustainability of a culture, I'm pretty sure we're more than 15 years out on that. I don't think the human race is going anywhere for in 15 years. Um there's going to be if in case anyone's not paid attention, the ability for people to live longer easier is occurring.
The ability for people to stay in their homes and get care in their homes is only ever increasing. You know, with with what they allow from a uh from an endof life scenario. If it were Canada, it's kind of a different story because they like medically assisted, you know, but here we don't like that stuff, you know. We we believe that all life is valuable. Our our Canadian friends across the border don't necessarily believe in that. Now, they've made a really good point with a lot of the people that they've put out in public that they're probably right, but still, we think there's still value in life. So, I think genuinely and generally speaking, that person is probably 35 years old and they had no money when the great financial crisis hit. Uh, they have actually no clue what they're talking about. They don't know how to study history. The fact of the matter is is history doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme. There certainly are corrections coming, but inflation adjusted, tax adjusted, real estate is still by far the safest play in the market. It's not even close.
Overstocks.
And if you try and tell me, I just put it in my 401k and it's set it and forget it. Yeah. You want to know what somebody looks like that has a 401k? Here's what they look like.
They check their stocks every nine seconds.
They check their stocks every nine seconds. Don't give me the [ __ ] that it's passive. Yeah, you're not making the trade, but you're looking at your phone every 9 seconds. Did it go up a ninth of a point? Like, that's ridiculous. Number two. Number two is it's absolutely not passive. But let's just get down to a little silly conversation called cash flow. I'd like for everyone to explain to me the S&P 500 and how that gives them cash flow.
>> Dividend stocks. But first, >> Uhhuh.
>> Yeah. Yeah. 4% of a number of somebody within their 20s or their 30s is going to make 4% of a hundred grand a year.
Let me know about the lifestyle that you're affording on the 4 percent. PS, by the way, that actually then kills your returns of 9% annually on average for 20 years. So, I mean, I can keep on beating the bag out of people on this one all day long. I had money in a 401k.
I had money in the stock market. And the reason that I chose the one that I chose is because it makes me a lot more money.
>> Okay. So, let's go with here's my number one reason. I got 20 to go through. I want you to bait each one.
>> Oh, sweet. This one lines up with you not even be able to make it to this because you had to go handle evictions.
The first reason is >> yes.
>> No, no, I wasn't handling the eviction.
It wasn't me. It was I literally had >> You had to handle the evictions. I've never had to kick anybody out of my stock portfolio.
>> Very That's very true. And the good >> zero tenant calls, >> right? No toilet at 2 a.m. No vacancies, no late rent.
>> That's only a real estate problem.
It very much is. Absolutely. It is. So, the good news is is that while you're working until 65 to when you can legally then access that money for all the time that you didn't have to do anything. I got 20 years on you. 20 years on you not doing whatever I want whenever I want because I might have >> never retired before 65. How about Joe?
>> I'm retired at 54. So couple years after me took 30 years of investing in stocks, >> but that's before 65.
>> What what was his job?
>> Engineer, >> right? So he was a well- paid engineer that rode the market up and that's fantastic.
But all due respect, I don't know Joe, you know, take away all the money that he's made from YouTube, right? Take away all that money because that's money.
>> His channel is the size of mine up until last year. So up until last year, he was making $600 a month off of YouTube.
Okay, perfect. Perfect. I mean, that's still coffee money. Um, Michelle, sorry.
Hey, you know what, Michelle? There's time for correction and I'll just do a little jig and you'll watch the fat guy with a beard jig when all y'all are wrong. The market corrects. It will absolutely correct because on stocks, you have something called a multiple.
And a multiple is the number of times multiplied their earnings.
And that's how they and that's your that's essentially how much the stock is going to go up based on its earnings.
>> So if anybody in the audience is keeping track, the first one was stocks have zero tenant calls, no vacancies, no late rent. You conceded that's a point for stocks.
>> Absolutely 100 point. Absolutely.
>> So here's the second one that you argued a little bit earlier.
>> You said it's not passive. So you have to have the discipline to make it passive to set up your auto deductions from your paycheck to not check it. And real estate to even get started requires finding deals, financing, inspection, repairs, management, education, market choice, asset choice, self-education, finding leases, screening tenants, maintaining tenants. None of that exists in stocks. So, acquiring, so owning real estate, I'll give you this, two to three hours a month, pretty passive, right? I I guarantee stock investors that are making any kind of money like I am are at least spending two to three hours a month on their stock portfolio.
>> Absolutely. Not even close.
>> But >> yeah, >> acquiring real estate >> is life consuming.
>> So this is where I would argue that absolutely to get any business off the ground, you have to spend time on it.
The issue is is that I'm going to show a return far faster than they are. Far faster than they are. Because they spend 10 years in the dopad stage or the derpa derp stage.
>> They just automated index funds. They watch Graham Stefen for 20 minutes.
>> That's my point. Yeah. So they spend that time in the derpa derp stage that and that's fine. The issue is is that around year 7 to 10 I start to make in a month what they make in a year >> but you had a decade an absolute decade where you worked full-time >> and you had to find deals learn your market and all that. So it's life consuming where stocks is start stocks as passive as it ends.
So if the arguments is is if the market if the if the argument is I want to do the easiest thing and not care about the return stocks.
>> Okay. So that's >> if the argument >> two for stocks you're going to get a bunch of real estate ones. Don't worry.
So the third thing out of these fine >> instant instant diversification.
So I have three different types of tenants in real estate, right? Military, section 8, working or retired. I have my properties at least 10 miles apart. But that first $60,000 investment into a real estate deal is one property in one area with one or two tenants. You are 100% in that thing versus you take $60,000, throw it into an index portfolio, the S&P or whichever one you choose, VO or whatever. You have hundreds of properties, you're diversified instantly. Real estate doesn't have instant diversification >> where so uh I'd like to understand the people that chose stocks how they fashion them to create shelter.
Just quick question on that. Are you folding them extra special? Is it a new type of origami that you take the stock certificates and you fold >> an example of no protection is I bought Tesla last year.
>> 1% of net worth, right? $1,000 a day.
dollar cost average till I hit about 30 grand. That's >> Yep.
>> It's over 50 now. So that's anecdotal, right? It's there's zero protection there. That can drop to zero tomorrow.
>> But the S&P 500 whatever companies >> where most of the value comes from the top seven, right? Yeah. So you are at risk of those top seven being in flux, >> but you have 500. That's that's the protection.
>> No. So again, I again if the idea is do the dumbest, laziest thing, stocks win.
Yes, they win. But I you know what's really interesting? All of my friends who made as much money as I did, they are all in the stock market and they all have one thing in common.
>> They're still [ __ ] working.
>> So, and I remind them of such once a month on a Monday. Once a month on a Monday. Good morning, guys. Hope you have a great month at work. Enjoy trying to hit your quota.
>> Yeah. No, I won't. Yeah, you got to start doing that. That's just fun.
>> And so the other piece to it too, and again, I still have stocks. I still have a 401k, whatever. Blah blah blah. And all that stuff went over up over time.
Yeah. Whoop-dedoo. It is an infant. It's a joke. It's the reason why Caleb Hammer and Graham Stefen sold their properties because it's a rounding error. It's a rounding error. And again, you don't need 60,000 bucks to get into your first house. I just did it with a kid. He spent $8,800. He moved into a quadplex. He's living for free and he's getting paid 1,500 bucks a month to live there.
Show me the awesome return on that S&P.
>> Or or Jeff and Silica's 10th house act they just closed on. They're going to be on the cruise with me next month.
>> Um, >> exactly. S&P suckers and poor people. So fourth reason why stocks now if anything wins stocks versus real estate stocks win reality always is going to turn it into >> before we move on though I think I think we just got to cover this because they were glossing over this and Jim says I just heard that the lumberjack is going to do a jig on stage at the next ORAD event.
>> They have to show a bigger return than I do. If they show a bigger return than I do, I'm more than happy to do uh more than happy to do a jig on stage.
They're not going to show cost adjusted, tax adjusted. There's a reason why there's a reason why some people liquidate their entire retirement portfolio and buy a bunch of and buy a bunch of houses. There's a reason why people are silly enough to do that.
There's a reason why people do that.
It's because they get a far greater return. It's yes, that it's work and yes, it's a challenge and maybe you don't buy 17 in a year. Lessons learned.
But the cool thing is is that when you look at this over a time period investing in stocks, you I bet you weren't around in the.com bomb. I can tell you that stocks went from $176 to [ __ ] zero. And you know what houses ever done that? None. Zero houses have done that. Even ones on nuclear landfills get more than a dollar.
>> Hey, uh Mark, can you put up the comment from Bradley Staylor?
>> Uh yes. The only reason why real estate wins is leverage. Without leverage, stocks wins everything. There's a great argument that people in real estate >> wait >> the next.
>> No, no, that's that's the right one. And he's 100% right. But that's you can you can debate. I get to say here's the thing.
>> If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.
>> I'll tell you what, you go first and then I'm just going to prove you wrong with a couple of sentences.
>> If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.
>> So the only reason wins is leverage.
Without leverage, stocks wins everything. Right? This is an argument that's super arrogant. Real estate got you know me. I make this argument all the time. Leverage is what? 30-year fixed rate debt. I'm gaining appreciation on the bank's money. All this principal payown, all this stuff, right? Levered depreciation. Here's the sentences where I'm going to prove you wrong. And Bradley, I'm saying this as like a friend, like joking with you, so please don't take offense.
Then leverage is the better asset, not real estate.
If we can do leverage with stocks, 30-year fixed rate debt, diversified index portfolio, average gain of 10% for the last 70 years, then leverage is the better asset. So the argument that we that I make all the time, leverage is why real estate wins.
Yeah. Because right now banks only trust real estate. They don't trust stocks.
And so we can get that leverage. So Bradley's right, but that's the counterargument.
The facts are the facts is that look at the adjusted returns and let's we can't be like, you know what, we're going to count this like CPI. We're not going to count gas. We're not going to count food. We're not going to count shelter.
>> SO, WHAT EXACTLY IS GOING UP? EVERYTHING IS GOING UP. And it's just a matter of these other things that are also going up as well.
>> So, listen, I don't care. Keep your stocks. I don't give a flying flip. It doesn't make any keep them. Keep them.
You're going to have to tighten the paper real tight to burn it when you don't have enough money to retire. When the market is down 50% the year that you want to retire, everyone acts like these things always go up. Listen, show me the cash flow that you're throwing off that you're living on. And if you want to say cash dividend stocks, you better be bringing three million bucks worth of stocks. If you're throwing off even 5% dividends, which is a big dividend, 5% dividends, that's 150,000 bucks a year.
Thanks, but I don't like being poor.
I'll pass.
>> Well, you don't only have $100,000 invested in real estate.
>> But no, no, no, no. the $3 million that they have to have in a in in a market.
And if you look at over the dawn of time, the actual raw money that I put into real estate, I would bet you it's not a whole lot more than three million bucks because of my own money in it and I'd generate 24.
But I'm on the other portfolio.
>> Number four, the fourth reason of these 20.
>> Thanks for proving my point.
>> This one I know I could prove your point over and over. This one, this I'm a living proof of this one being real.
Where stocks is better than real estate.
>> Okay.
>> Geographic risk disappears.
A landlord can be wrecked by one bad city, one employer leaving local regulations, natural disasters, >> stock spread risk nationally and globally.
>> Yep.
>> Where I wouldn't have to move out of Washington state where there is no R, but there's so many liberals. I'll move to any other state and even surround myself with religious nut jobs and be in a better situation.
>> Are you asking me to move in?
>> Uh yeah. So real estate you millennial Mike investing in Gary Indiana makes total sense because Gary Indiana tanked when all the steel left >> and he's riding the slow wave back of of remote work and section 8 into a an improving market.
>> Yeah.
>> But something can happen in your local market. Car manufacturers can move out of Detroit, do bubble crashes, Silicon Valley, Washington state goes so insanely liberal that owning real estate there becomes very challenging.
>> But time out, let me cut through the kucka because those didn't go to zero. There's still in fact because your state would be diagnosed as clinically [ __ ] You actually have the ability to sell those assets and make a fortune.
>> You do now and I just did. But what about when mum dami's clones all over the country go I'm gonna seize the means of production and they go rent control triple property tax >> but haven't but haven't but haven't >> but they are in New York >> and the issue is understood but why why would we ever use New York as an example of anything other than nothing to do like don't ever do anything that New York does like Mum Donnie what are you joking like and the best part is is look up who voted for >> until we repeal the 19th it's going spread more and more.
>> But here's the thing, let it spread.
That's awesome. Cuz guess what happens?
All of that money goes to the smart states like mine because people leave there and we want the bill >> and then they people that move there vote blue.
>> No, blue.
>> It's not going to flip blue. No. No. No.
No way. Uh-uh. No way. I'll get my face tattooed [ __ ] blue if Texas goes blue. That ain't happening. It's not going blue. So, at the end of the day, drink Dion. At the end of the day, what's what's likely going to happen is contrary to all these [ __ ] politicians like that [ __ ] in Washington or Mum Dummy, all of these are Spar Ber, these people are absolute freaking clowns. And you're watching capital leave in droves.
And you know where it's going? to states like mine that we are more than happy to to cuddle up to billionaires and kiss some ass and say come on to New Hampshire sales taxree income taxfree and put your money to work >> straw manning which states are better versus which assets better we're on the asset argument today >> no so the so the so the assets well okay so real estate regulations >> right so so that then I so I sell it in that state and I buy it in the in the right state because it's not the wrong asset. It's the wrong area. So, I still stick with the asset, but I change the area by which I do it. Hence why Dion's not moving to Texas to sun his ass.
Dion's moving to Texas because he's going to start buying property there.
He's going to buy a ranch. He's going to buy other properties. He's going to take care of that stuff. So, he's not hating the strategy. He's hating the strategy in the state that he lived in.
>> First of all, that's why he left.
>> And second, >> yeah, sunning. I'm obviously the the real estate investor and I'm trying to be on the other side of the argument.
>> So, >> it doesn't work when you don't believe, but go ahead. It does. I've won like three of the four so far. Number five, >> right now says 75 in Dion's favor.
>> It was five, but >> yeah, Matt 7 on five. Chris Coridor Chris is right. He's he's picking up on >> So, here's the the fifth one. at >> liquidity for the average investor who just all of a sudden tomorrow wants to pull 20 grand out of their portfolio.
>> I own real estate and let's say it's all in the real estate. If I want to go get a heliloc, if I want to go do a refi, if I want to sell a property, >> there's a whole bunch of fees involved.
But with stocks, I can sell in seconds.
>> Then real estate, I got to list a property, wait, negotiate inspections, closing, I got to deal with a lender, appraisal, all of that. So, you're talking 30 to 90 days on the fast track, maybe 15 if you had some of the work done in advance.
>> But with stocks like my Tesla, >> other than the capital gains stuff, I could pull 40 grand out tomorrow and have 40 grand in cash.
>> Yep, you absolutely could. So, the downside the downside to that Oh, sit down. The downside to that. The downside Oh, no, Rob. I'm fine. I I I run hot, baby. I run hot. and you don't get this awesome [ __ ] running like a [ __ ] So, the fact of the matter is is that you're going to be in a position where when you do that transaction, you're gonna owe a massive amount in taxes. And the best >> when you sell your properties, too, unless you 1031 no cash, you will own a [ __ ] ton of taxes.
>> But I can but I cash.
>> Yes, understood. But here's the thing.
When you're somebody of my size and exation, even somebody of your size, even somebody that's 18 units, you could get you could easily get 20 cash in 10 days on your property. 10 days. Now, you can't get it in one. I don't disagree.
But you can get it in 10.
Okay.
>> I don't know what scenario, unless your drug dealer got pissed. I don't know what scenario you need 20,000 bucks in one day. I don't know that scenario. Was was Chesla kidnapped and we're trying to get her out of the arms of the federal.
>> She would talk real estate so much they would bring her back.
>> Yeah. Like again, so the again I think for for and and let's just real quick, Dion, are you trying to tell me that with 18 properties and your Tesla stock that you don't have at least $20,000 in an emergency?
>> That wasn't the point. You're straw manning again.
None of them liquid. And the benefit to real estate for me is that it's illquid.
But if you did need the money, let's say >> family member calls, they need money tomorrow for a surgery.
>> Watch this. I can't see the sun. Can't see the sun. Can't see it. Yeah, it doesn't matter. It doesn't mean it's not [ __ ] there and it's not bright. It's not and it's not sunning everybody else's ass.
>> Say it would take 10 days. So stock wins. It can be tomorrow. my Robin Hood account is tied direct to my bank account >> because I'm a because I'm a pretty good, you know, because I'm a pretty good uh non-stock investor. I've got emergency funds that would choke the 40. So, that's the cool thing for me is that I get that stuff that just kind of sits there and reminds me goes, "Hi, we're here."
>> So, speaking of that, this is number six, >> the returns, right?
>> The transaction friction.
Let's say I do want to pull out the 20 grand. I don't have the cost of an appraisal. I don't have the if I do want to sell a property, I don't have the negotiations. I don't have commissions.
I don't have an >> Washington state's excise tax, which even if you sell at a loss, you have to pay uh escrow, closing costs, >> stocks, trades for almost 10 years ago it was different, but now with the platforms we have, it's almost nothing.
>> Sure.
>> So, I'm five of six now.
>> No, you're not five of six. Again, the key point is is that if it I'm going to get a shirt. Matt, you're straw manning again. I know, Rob. He need to get that shirt for Dion.
>> Quit doing it.
>> Yeah, you're a very moderator. Mark, you're supposed to bring it back on topic.
>> When you when you bring up any topic that might shoot his idea down, all of a sudden it's a bad idea and it's traumatic.
>> But you have to go with what we're debating. It's the whole point of the debate.
>> What we're Yes. Again, the if the if the agree if the argument is that stocks are easier than than real estate, I I've never said that stocks aren't easy.
>> That's number eight.
>> They just number eight.
>> They just leave you simple and poor. The S&P they leave you simple and poor. And again, I don't care if people want to choose that path, but they're choosing a path that they want to work for the man for at least 35 years. At least it's a long time. I will have at least a decade on anybody that was a stock market guy.
>> But you had to learn your market. You had to put in all that work. Sure.
>> Number seven, the problem is >> I did. I had I had to You're right. I had to make an effort.
>> Stocks take no effort.
>> And I have a cash flow that their stock portfolio does not throw because almost none of these people will get to a $3 million stock portfolio. Most of them will end up around a million bucks, maybe a little bit more. And a million dollars is like farts. It's like a fart.
You're gonna get on a on dividend returning stocks 4,000 a year.
4,000, 5,000, 10,000, 20,000. You're You want to live on 20 grand? You better be ready to join Dion down in Texas and live on his ranch. Like, that's what's going to have to happen. And you might need to change and you might >> Yeah, exact. I was just gonna say and you'll need to be a ranch hand.
>> The the argument is absolut So the argument of which one is less um I rather trade stocks. I hate real estate.
So many gritty [ __ ] out there. Yeah, because there's none of that in the stock market. What a [ __ ] statement.
>> I'm I'm with them. I know us, man.
>> I rather trade stocks because there's no bad people there. There's nothing but bad people in real estate. Like what a what a simpleton's argument. And that's fine. You should you should cuz clearly you're a guppy, not a shark. You should stay in stocks.
>> Hang on, Matt. That's the right person.
>> No, I I attacked the statement. The statement is inaccurate.
>> I say that to make You're not [ __ ] I mean, you are, but that statement was really >> The statement that was made was was provably [ __ ] It was it was deficient of thought because it's to say that only only bad people exist in the housing market and there's no bad people in the stock market. That's why insider trading >> I think the statement was really good if my memory is working is I hate stocks which means it's their opinion of stocks. They didn't say stocking >> or real estate sucks because of these people. It says I hate real estate. So that's their opinion. I'm with them. If you hate real estate, you shouldn't own it.
of of course. Yeah, of course.
>> Are winning by allowing all data centers as investments. I would rather be a stock owner than a >> they're fighting this the data centers >> just like AOC wouldn't let Amazon into New York.
>> Oh no, we'll do something else with the three $3 billion tax cut we were going to give them.
>> It's just like anything. It's just like anything with the data centers. You let the free market cook. You just have requirements of them. You got to provide your own water and make it sustainable.
You got to provide your own electric.
Make it sustainable. We're not taking any promises and any gaps you're going to have to write a check for. That simple. If you make it that like that's the because what people are failing to miss is the tens of thousands of jobs that they cor that they create. Dion is ignoring you have to spend effort on stocks too because if you don't your panic sells at the bottom is your payments.
>> Yeah. Cost average. Never look at it.
>> That's why you have to have the discipline. We started with that.
That's why the indexes are very much one thing. It is set it, forget it, and it just takes an automatic draw out of your paycheck and you're not doing anything other than [ __ ] your pants when the market cuts in half and you have to retire in two years like everybody that retired in 07, 08, 09, 10, 11, they were all dying. This is why you have the buckets method where you have it diversified into there's a term for the >> people correct me in the comments every time I went mind blank on this but you plan for a crash right when you retire there's a term for it sequence of I want to say fear returns but a sequence of risk or something like that >> right the issue though is is that when you look at it most people cannot retire with a 50% crash or a 40% crash the issue remains that when you have real estate I have income When you don't have real estate, you don't have income. You have stock certificates that are believe they have a believed or perceived value, not an actual value. Because people need houses, they don't need payment.
>> Okay, here's the eighth way. Stocks are better than real estate.
>> Okay, sounds awesome.
>> It's easier for beginners. You open an account, you buy an index fund, you're done. Real estate, the just the education to get started, you have to qualify for a loan.
>> You have to >> Yes. You you need to learn how contracts work. What what is uh contingency? Like you have to learn these things. Yes, you need to find insurance. And right now in some states that's freaking challenging.
Thank you, Ninja Vanish. Uh >> the the sucker and poor index will do exactly that.
>> So it's easy. So you it's easier for beginners.
>> I like I said, I've admitted since day one, >> seven of eight.
I've admitted from day one that stocks are if the if the premise is easier, it's agreed. I There's no argument there. I You can fight me all you want.
Stocks are easier. Yes, they are.
>> All you want. I said it. You're agreeing with me.
>> Stocks are easier. But that but that's but that's like, you know, being that's like that's like David Green's pyramid being like some [ __ ] thought ninja. That's not a smart. He's stated basic [ __ ] that he couldn't even follow and that's why he's blowing up. Give me a break with this. This is [ __ ] This is absolutely stupid. So, let's look at the facts. The facts are Yeah.
If you want easy, get in the sucker and pour. If you want easy, get in the sucker and pour and stay there. That's absolutely easy.
>> Before we get to get more riled up, but do we want to add Bitcoin as part of the stock index?
Not yet. With Nick, we'll do another debate another day because I did the research on stocks to go, okay, >> okay, >> here's my mental. I haven't done I want to be prepared for a debate and I'm not prepared for a Bitcoin debate. I have like three things I could say and what at least 20.
>> But Matt, if we ever play chess, if we ever play chess, Matt, >> I'm going to start this debate because it's the only chance I have of even lasting a few minutes playing chess with you.
>> It doesn't matter. It's It's easier like Gian I mean based on your argument we shouldn't even play chess. We should be playing checkers.
>> Yeah.
>> Based on your argument.
>> The ninth reason why stocks is better than real estate.
Nobody in my stock portfolio has never called me and said, "Hey, I need a roof." Now, when you're well into your investing and you've got your reserves and you've got your cash flow, sure, who cares about a roof? I like putting a roof on my properties. It has a new 30-year protection on an asset. But in that first six months or that first year, Alex and Jill just closed on a two duplex forplex, you know, two duplexes on one property. It's a great deal. We analyzed it about a month ago. He knows what he's doing. He's a decade into this. He's got the reserves. He purchased it and negotiated knowing one of those units needs a roof. But the brand new investor that says, "Oo, there's two duplexes on one property. I can house hack a unit. I can do an FHA loan. Minimum down. Barely have the reserves. get in there and forget to say, "Oh, it needs a roof." Stocks don't do that. No surprises.
>> Stocks are Yeah. I like I said, Oh, there's plenty of surprises in individual stocks. So, let's >> $18,000 bill due tomorrow.
>> So, yeah. Trading trading. Hey, hey, tell you what, Trading for Science, I will challenge you. Share your receipts where you're making $5,000 in an hour trading stocks. Go ahead. Share your receipts.
share your receipts and I'll show you that over the course of a year, I bury that number. It's absurd, guys. Stick with stocks. You don't belong in a real man's environment buying real estate.
You should stick with stocks. You You're You're clearly not mentally efficient enough to run a business based on these comments, but it's Yeah, you can you can buy the academy.
>> You'll come put them together for me, right, Matt?
>> Exactly. I will not touch those stupid things. But again, the the key for people is they're exactly right. They should invest in what they're comfortable in. And they're very comfortable working for 45 years helping other men accomplish their dreams. While people like me didn't really have any interest in that and was far more happy to only have worked in in the mainstream for 26 years. That's it. I'm retired now. I do whatever I want every single day. And if that means nothing to you and you're like, "Dude, it's cool. I love my job. I love commuting to the office. It's fantastic. I don't find that it's soul snatching at all. I love working for somebody that absolutely loathe and hates me. I love being married to somebody that quite frankly I thought was a 10 and I realize every day more and more they're a three. Like if that's the way that you want to live life, like that's cool. I don't begrudge you that. Have a have a blast. Love trading your stocks and flipping stocks.
You guys, what the problem is with most of you is 14 years, you have not seen a down market for 14 years.
You're going to get absolutely eaten alive and you don't even know it.
Because when my property goes down, let's just say stocks go down 50% and my property goes down 50%. Who's still making money? Not you. Not you. Not you.
I'm making tons of money. I get paid rent every single month. Oh, well, what about evictions being up? Yeah, okay.
5%. I can have 50% of my tenants not pay and I'm still making money. The difference is is that again, set yourself up for the life that you want.
Buy stocks. I encourage >> That's why we're having a debate.
>> Fantastic.
>> Here's the Here's the 10th reason why stocks are better than real estate.
>> No lawsuits from tenants, right? You got fair housing, habitability, injuries.
>> No stock investor got sued because a handrail broke.
>> 100%. That's totally correct. Like I said, like I said, stocks are for the simple, for the for the suckers and the poor. That's what stocks are for.
They're for the suckers and the poor. It takes market valuations to go from 16 times or 18 times earning to go to 12 and all of a sudden, boom, you just lost a quarter of the value of your portfolio because now the multiplier is compressed. Guys, buy it. I love it. I think you should keep on buying it. You know what's really cool? You know what?
All my tenants have 401ks. They all have them.
>> Mine all have better cars than >> dumb asses. They all got them. Oh, they all have 401ks. Congratulations on your 401ks. You're renting from me.
>> I think Cody Davis wants to poke the lumberjack a little bit, but he says, "Matt, >> he just said people need homes, not stocks. People do need companies, though, to be fair."
>> People said, "Yeah." So, what exactly what I said is people need a place uh people need shelter. They need a place over their head. and these companies.
Yes, obviously somebody has to work at the companies. All of that stuff is fine, but the cycle for I need a company versus I need a home. Day one, you're freezing your ass off. You guys have clearly never been to New Hampshire in the winter time. You're dead in eight hours outside. Eight hours. You can last more than eight hours without a company. So the again the issue remains by all means buy stock, buy [ __ ] tons of it and watch your returns over the decades. Watch your returns continue to be about the same. Watch them increase. Watch when I hope that none of you need to retire in a in a reenactment of 08 or '09 where your portfolios are in half and now you can no longer retire because people are like well I built it based on needing the the the money that was going to be there. The other thing too is people are not counting on how much money they need to actually make to stay alive. So guess what? Me, rich guy, has to pay for you losers that make it to your mid 80s that don't have any money left because you don't own anything. You don't have anything and you had stocks and you already spent it all because you drool out of both sides of your mouth. That's a problem. That's a problem. And I get stuck paying that bill. But here's the best part. It doesn't matter because it comes from a place of such extreme stacks. Like the number, if you believe the numbers, and Dion, you correct me if I'm wrong. I believe the numbers are every 10 to 12 years, rent doubles.
>> Yeah, pretty much. Probably faster, but yeah, >> let's call it 12. Let's get even nuttier. Let's say it's 12. So that means by the time that mortgage pays off, you will have had essentially rents go from 1,000 to about 5,000 bucks when you during the during the course of owning that property. So now it's not even the thousand bucks that finally goes away that you don't owe anymore.
It's the 5,000 bucks a month you get coming in from income from one property.
That's why four makes you four makes you a millionaire. I know I've made a lot of millionaires over the last year with them just following pretty simple steps.
And you know what? They all got out of it because they wanted to actually get into owning something. Yeah, but if you want, you can rent out your house and it takes a year you losing money. No, it doesn't. I could rent out my house tomorrow and I make a ton of money. So again, it's talk about straw man arguments, right?
>> Like what a bunch of fluff and [ __ ] >> So here's the next reason. We'll move on to this one.
>> You agreed it was easier for people to begin in stocks than real estate.
>> Yeah, absolutely.
>> This is like a caveat to that one. It is easier for people with lower the sucker imports.
>> It's easier for people with lower incomes >> to start with stocks because you don't have a debt to income ratio to worry about. You don't have closing cost. You don't have to save a down payment. You can start with 50 bucks. I think Robin Hood you can start with five bucks, but I probably >> True.
>> True.
>> Yeah. So, the only ch >> Yeah. The only challenge though is is that you're going to need a place to live. And if you can house hack and you're a veteran, you can get it for zero down. You should probably do that.
>> You still have to have the credit score.
You still have to have reserves. They they won't live without reserves.
>> I get it. I get it. You you you might have to have 5,000 bucks in your bank account. I get it. Yep. But you've already spending all this you're already putting all this money in your stock market homeowner.
>> The the good news is is that $5 in 40 years will be at least 13. So you've got that going for you.
>> But but to >> like So you got to compare you got to compare apples to apples >> to Stan's point. He says is being easier a win. Flipping burgers is easier than founding a business. the potential quality of life is a lot higher for one of those than the other.
>> As the self-proclaimed lazy investor, my book on Amazon, Financial Freedom for the Lazy Person, easier is a victory.
That's one of Here's here's one of the things. Uh this is a bit further down the list, but I'll just throw it in now.
Matt, how many systems did you have to have in place to get it down to where it's as passive as it is? Where stocks is dollar cost average, set it up automatically, fire and forget, and never think about it. You don't need systems for that. Oh, bought one course from the lumberjack landlord and he fixed all that for me.
>> There you go. And how many systems are in >> the expense?
>> What's that?
>> How many systems are in that course?
>> Yeah, there's probably three or four.
Yeah, there's probably Yeah, there's probably three or four, you know, core systems in that course. But that's the thing is people don't have to learn it on their own or people have to build them on their own. They can literally buy it and they get right to the front of the line and they advance themselves in the club. Um, on this live show, uh, you can close wholesale deal live, then I'll stop day trading and come work for us. Dude, I'm not a wholesaler.
Wholesalers are pawn scum. Brian Dilla is a wholesaler. He's an amoeba. He can barely put coherent thought together.
Wholesalers >> 30 rentals that make zero dollars.
>> He has 30 rental.
You want to We can go right through my portfolio and I'll show you. You can pick 10 houses and I'll show you how much money a month I make. You know, getting fatter.
Roller 72. Stocks double every seven years. Great.
>> Okay. So, here's one.
>> So, so lead, pray, and huddle. I'd like to know >> what you do for work.
>> That's Nick. He's a teacher and he has a channel on crypto. He's been on all our channels.
>> Perfect.
>> Oh, no. Not crypto. Bitcoin. I want to clarify. Yeah, Bitcoin.
>> Which he was killing it until this 50% drop since October, but I'm sure this is >> That sucks, Nick, cuz all my properties lost 50% and I got 50% less rent. That sucks. You have to. So, >> oh wait, I didn't. I still got all of my rents. They all actually went up and my properties didn't go down at all.
>> Crypto's another day. Bitcoin's another day.
>> You want to They want to be a Bitcoin here and do the debate.
>> I've got some of that, too. And it's stuffed off in a corner.
>> So, let me guess. He's a teacher for the love of it because he has enough money to retire tomorrow and never work again.
>> Yeah, that's right. I just won again >> against real estate. Come on now. Focus.
>> It doesn't matter. Crypto trading.
>> Yeah. Pick. Pick one. Doesn't matter.
>> All right. Here's here's one where real estate right off work tomorrow.
>> Here's one another one where stocks beats real estate.
>> Okay.
>> Sure.
>> I will concede that stocks has more tax benefits than re or no, I'm sorry. Real estate has more stocks.
>> Tax benefits than stocks.
>> But in retirement >> when you're very old.
>> Okay.
>> Better tax flexibility.
with stocks than real estate because you choose how much you want to withdraw.
You choose how much you pay. And I'm not saying RMDs when you're 72 and a 401k has to be paid. I'm saying your stock investment for retirement.
>> It's really hard to sell just a bedroom >> or the kitchen.
>> You sell in chunks. It >> sure is.
>> Right. So more tax flexibility with stocks.
>> I don't need to sell.
>> Not now. You're not 75 yet.
>> At 70. Even at 70, I don't need to sell then either. I can literally just hand the keys off to a property manager and he can take his 5%. And I'll make my over million dollar a month. Thank you.
Thank you. I'll take my million a month.
It's just the again, stocks are easier.
Real estate is for the wealthy. Stocks are easier. Real estate's for the wealthy. When you're in an S&P fund, they're like, "Well, I traded a stock."
Congratulations. Hopefully, you enjoy paying your 50% in taxes. Hopefully you enjoy that because that's what you're gonna pay when you trade a stock. You know, I'm completely covered when I sell a house. I owe zero money in taxes.
None. Not nada. Zippo, zilch. And so I get to keep all of my money and roll it to the next one.
>> And roll it to the next one. That's not your money. That's the next investment's money.
>> AB. Okay. Listen, you can call my aunt Ted, but she still doesn't have balls.
>> Like, it doesn't make a difference. So, you know, everyone can put themselves into >> right now like you sell a stock.
>> Yeah.
>> All right. Somebody comments educate me.
Can you 1031 a stock portfolio sell stocks by like for life? You can. So then that's the >> You can It's just No, no, no. But there's a special retirement. There's a special way that you have to do.
>> There's a special way you have to do it with real estate. You have to hire a third party.
>> But I can buy But I can buy real But I can buy But I can buy real estate with a 401k, too. Well, what about when Gavin Newsome goes on Bill Maher and says literally I have the I could pull up the the video. He says you shouldn't be able to borrow against your assets without paying t tax on that. So if you take out a heliloc, he wants you to pay tax on that money. If you if you borrow against your stocks, he wants you to pay tax on that. It's the same thing.
>> He wants to do away with the stepped up basis.
>> This is this is bad for both sides of that. So here's here's another reason.
>> That's just that's just communism. But I do want to address that question that just popped up because I think he just won [ __ ] question of the day.
>> I didn't see it.
>> Yeah, it's pretty it's it's it's pretty past stupid. Um, you know, it's talking about a homeless person needing a house.
I don't know. You clearly aren't a landlord because I've never marketed to homeless people. They don't usually have a whole lot of Facebook access to my >> I have a lot of homeless people in my units. They get section 8.
>> Yeah. So, if someone is homeless and needs a house, they aren't paying your rent. Like, that's a moronic statement.
It's completely moronic. I don't have I don't have issues getting tenants. I get them all the time and they pay me thousands of dollars a month to use my asset.
That's what they do. So, yeah, I've never marketed to homeless people that I'm not really interested in them.
>> The stock market got grown men saying stuff like, "I'm down right now and I believe in the fundamentals. That's not investing. That's a hostage situation."
Yeah. I mean, again, Gus, the biggest issue with the stock market, you guys can have it. I still have some of it.
I'm still in your crazy little land. The thing is, the numbers don't impress me.
Guess what? I'm invested just like you guys, the S&P. Who gives a flying flip?
What's that going to make this year?
It's going to make a [ __ ] rounding error. It wouldn't cover the heat bill for my pool.
>> All right, here you go, Matt. So, like, >> real estate is an incredible business.
Yeah, >> but investing is stocks because investing shouldn't be creating another career and you have made a career out of real estate. The average person won't be working as much or managing crews or having employees like you do or even not employees but flips and tenant turns and least recent renewals. It's a business and stocks is just an investment. That's the difference.
>> Yes. still said stocks are easier. I I'm not sure Dion, you're smarter than this.
Stocks are easier. I can see the points I'm 100% invested in real estate, but I'm making the other side of the argument today.
>> Can't use that stocks, >> but the answer but the questions are all the questions are all based on what's easier. I don't disagree with you. Most of society will take the easy path and most of society will be disappointed at the end result because does anybody complain about inflation or how much things cost right now? Here's what's really funny. I filled up for gas for the first time in two weeks cuz I don't really need to go anywhere.
I don't really have anywhere to go and I saw that it gas was like 450 a gallon.
How's that feeling for your daily commute to the office? I hope your dividends coming from your stocks are going to cover it. Like come on. Here's what I'll wrap up with.
>> And you have the floor. Okay.
>> Whatever you want.
>> I'm ready.
>> Most investors don't retire because they bought one duplex.
>> They retire because they consistently invested over decades. Stocks are easier to consistently execute.
I've known several people. My friend David, he races motorcycles and cars, so we call him racist. Dave, he uh had rentals in the past and didn't like it.
Got out of it. Now he buys notes. Uh there are tons of people who used to own rentals but either didn't manage it correctly, it was too much work, got aided up by 2008 because they thought, you know, it always goes always goes up, adjustable rates are a great idea because it's low for now, like whatever the reason was. But the people who consistently set up a thing to where just whether it's their 401k, their Roth, or just their portfolio that they they they set money up every month and don't think about it because I said this earlier with Mark, the highest performing stock portfolios belong to people who died. The second highest performing stock portfolios belong to people who forgot they had them. And the third portfolio um belong it was run by a cat named Orlando. This is the highest performing one. So, it's the people who get involved and think day trading works when such a high percentage of people lose money at that or they think covered calls is important and they forget that margin gets called uh and that sometimes stocks do go up so shorting things isn't going to work either. You have to educate yourself on your asset class to get this going. But stocks does have, and you've said it many times, easiest, the simplest, the lowest barrier to entry, >> y >> for the person willing to go past the barrier to entry. I obviously chose real estate for a few reasons, >> but I want people to let us know in the comments, and Matt, you get the closing arguments after this, but in the comments, let us know.
>> I tried to do my best and take the the other side of the coin than it is my usual coin. Let me know how I did. What did I miss? Explain the covered calls thing because I would like to have had a better argument if there was one. Uh, go ahead, Matt. The floor is yours.
So, lead prey. So, you're wrong. So, I'm not a top 1% real estate investor. I mean, what shock? You've said another thing that's wrong. It's that's you completely missed the point. You have to show up for work every single day and grind it out and get orders from people and get told what to do and be pleasant to be around. I don't have any of those same silly things. It's wonderful. If you want to be in stocks, go for it. I will be wealthier than you every single step of the way. It's not even close.
It's been proven time and time again.
All of the tax benefits are on my side over your side. I get to retire early. I get to do what I want with most of my life. I have no idea if I'm going to live to 65 or 95. No freaking clue. I'm angry enough to live to 150.
So the cool thing for me is is that I pick something that's that I get to spend time with my son, get spend time with my daughters, time with my wife. I like my family. Maybe you don't like your family. You need to go to work to get away from them. That's quite possible. But the fact still remains is that real estate is by far the best adjusted return. That's why do 95% of real estate investors lose money? No.
But 95% of day traders do. All the bit boys out there, how many of you guys have blown up over the last five years?
There's a long line of margin calls that have eaten your guys for lunch. So, we can make the talk all you want. The fact of the matter is is that over and over and over and over I win because your Bitcoin pays you nothing, your Ether pays you nothing, your Hawk Tua coin bones you in the ass. You make nothing.
>> She makes >> and that's the problem. She did. But the but the issue is is my real estate every single day. Sure it costs something, but it makes me money. It makes me money.
And there's no doubt in my mind Lead Prey Hodddle spends time underneath his desk figuring out what the next meme coin's going to be so we can figure out how he doesn't get rugpulled. All of these stable coins, they're nice, they're cute, they're fantastic. But you know what I own? I own silver. I own gold. I own real estate. Now, the silver and gold don't pay me anything. And the Bitcoin that I own and the Ether that I own, they pay me nothing either. The issue is is I get paid every single day by my real estate portfolio. Every day it pays me. Every single day. What's a 02 delta covered call will beat any rental any day? Oh, please, dude. Then if that's the case, why are you still working? If you're so brilliant and you know that that works and will beat any rental any day, why are you still working?
That's why it's just white noise from you guys. You guys are a noise machine, you know, except slightly more expensive. The facts are real estate wins. It wins every single time. You know, look at the guys. You think Ken Mroy? Come on. Hot take. Stocks are the ultimate lazy person to wealth. Not necessarily. Again, I know a lot of you guys have So, Lynn, I'm going to guess by looking at your picture, and I'm going to be completely rude. I'm going to guess you're in your late 20s.
Late 20s, maybe. maybe early 30s, meaning you've never seen a crash where you had money in the market.
>> Yeah, but it's still lazy. I think she's right. I think because >> she's not wrong about the lazy lazy because that's the thing, the lazy play, right?
>> But it's but but again, >> we weren't talking most successful with the best return. The problem is the interpret the problem is is what she believes is wealth.
>> What is wealth? Is wealth when you retire having $3 million? No, thank you.
No, thank you. I'm not interested in three million. I'm interested in >> You made a misstatement a moment ago when you said you weren't top 1% of real estate because if you go residential real estate >> Yeah.
>> commercial and I think in residential I think owning more than 100 units that you don't have partners in with your loan to value of portfolio I think you would easily be in top 1%.
>> I don't know. I look at, you know, I mean, cuz company structure, like if you if you boil it to company structure, probably 1%. But most guys that have real estate, you know, most guys have a lot more money than I do. They just have to share it. So, >> yes, understood. But I'm saying I'm saying on the revenue side, not on the not on the actual let's get to the bottom line side, you know? So, because that's that's my fun fun fact. That's up to them otherwise. But again, I I don't I disagree with wealth with stock making people wealthy. Wealthy to me is not $3 million at 65 or $5 million at 65. It's just not that's not wealthy.
>> Well, that means you are now the person who's out of touch with reality >> 100%. And I would absolutely recommend but everyone can replicate what I did and not everyone can replicate you know you can't get to eight figures you're not getting to eight figures in wealth with real estate with stock investments you can very easily get to eight figures of wealth with real estate investment very easily.
It's a lot easier, far easier than stocks. I know because when I talk to people and they've got, oh, I've got 300,000, 400,000, 500. Now I'm of the age where a lot of people are in their 50s and they've gotten past the million-doll mark in their portfolio.
That's awesome. That's fantastic. Um, what do you Can you retire now today?
Oh, you >> So, take out YouTube, Matt. Take out everybody you've met through YouTube.
How many real estate investors do you know that you worked with that you've interacted in your personal life >> that could retire anytime they wanted to outside of YouTube? Because I personally >> I knew two >> with So can retire with real estate or can retire with uh with Yeah. Um I mean the at the local REI that we have we there's about a hundred people >> you still had to go to a meeting. If I if I went to a local REI in any area I would meet the people investing. I said in your that you worked with that you interacted with your friends and family that aren't that you're not meeting through meetups for people because you're getting a skewed perception of reality when you go to >> Yeah. I mean I'm I I like to hang out with people that are successful and so I don't hang out with people that have stock portfolios that think that they're going to retire worth $10 million.
I would have this argument with Buffett because Buffett knows Buffett's 99 years old.
>> All right.
Haway own too.
>> Exactly. They own literally hundreds of billions of dollars of real estate. Do you think that the only revenue or do you think that the only money that they report is the income that they make? No.
They own billions. They own hundreds of billions of dollars of real estate.
Hundreds of billions. And what does that do? Their businesses create cash flow.
But what's one of the main reasons their businesses create cash flow? It's because they own the buildings.
They don't pay anybody else rent. You can absolutely play both. Absolutely.
Tiffany's 100% correct. You can absolutely 100% play both. I play both.
But I know how much greater my return is on my real estate. And that's why if I have to choose, okay, what do I I I have an I have an infrastructure now. Do I want to put another $100,000 in the market in the suckers and poor and get a return on that at 9% a year or would I rather take that $100,000, buy another building and make far more money on that 100,000 bucks because I already have the infrastructure set up. So if again I don't think that anybody should be doing only one thing. I think you can be diversified, but you have to spend all of your money in one area in the beginning because that's the way the rocket lifts off. So, I put all my time.
People that start off four businesses at once fail at all four of them. Start one, get focused on one, learn everything about one, make the money on one, and then after you do that, then you can start to spend your proceeds where you want. You know what? I have a phenomenal baseball card collection.
Phenomenal. It's awesome. And I get to play with it and I get to enjoy with it and I get to be a kid and I get to share with my kids and I get to talk to friends about it. It's an awesome experience and it's worth something too.
Sure. But the sole purpose they're more of a storage of wealth than they are a sole purpose of they're they're they're like anything else that you buy. The gold, the silver, the whatever. It's it's inflation covered, you know. So again, buy stocks. That's fine. But to sit there and argue that a stock portfolio is better than a real estate portfolio. You're you're all arguing that from your office chair.
Congratulations. You're still working.
I'm not. I like to spend my life the way I like to spend my life. A good follow-up for for each to break down what they missed once the dust is settle settled. A good follow I don't think. So Chris, I'm open to ideas of what I missed. I get that people say, "Well, this is a winner at 13% every time." If you can make 13% money guaranteed, you're an idiot for staying in your job.
You should run and move to Wall Street and then you can publish those results because that makes you one of the top managers in the entire world if you're delivering 13% consistently because most of them aren't even close to that. Most aren't even close. So, it's just there there's just a level of disingenuous and dishonesty in how it's being handled.
And I can tell you this. Ask Birkshere, was it easier to get a great return on $und00 million or a hundred billion dollar?
It's hard to invest a lot of money and get a great return because it moves markets. So, I'm not expecting that I'm going to get as big as Bergkshire.
That's not the point. I could be a 100 units next year. I could be 300 units next year. I have no idea. But I can tell you this, the deals that I'll do, they'll make a lot more money than any speculative stock deal. And the stock market's going to correct. It's called It's called a chart. Look it up. And when real estate corrects Oh, yeah.
Well, look up real estate. It corrects.
Yeah, it sure does. Hey, Dion, tell me how many times rents have gone down for over the years.
>> Since we started tracking the data in 1940, there has not been a 5-year period where rents went down and stayed down once ever marketwide. There are some local areas where the cars moved out of Detroit or dot hit Silicon Valley, but you're in three different cities. I'm in two different counties. Uh yeah, so rents don't go down. When we do have an economic collapse where housing prices go down and millions of people lose their house to foreclosure, they become tenants and they increase the demand on our rentals. And now I am arguing your side again, which wasn't the point of this video.
>> Yes.
>> Well, that's kind of where I wanted to get you. But then the last point that Dion uh didn't make regarding the um you know, regarding when foreclosures start to happen and then all of those people that still need shelter because everyone told me how unimportant that was. Well, stocks, stocks, stocks. No. House, place to live, roof overhead, place to take a pee, place to put your kids, place to sleep, all these silly things that real people need. Um, that's why I'm in that business is because it is a need. They absolutely need it. It's absolutely needed. So, when again, when you look at the stock market, it's nice. You can be lazy. You can stick it in the sucker and poor people fund and see what your returns are. But I will take real estate every single time and twice on Sunday because it throws off the cash flow that I want to live my life every day. And you guys just reinvest that. The most successful businesses in the world, they don't they don't rent their buildings.
But you think the most successful people in the world do rent their buildings, do rent their houses? No, they own. So riddle me this, Dion. What's the average value of or the average net worth of a renter at 65 versus a actual home owner at 65? What are those numbers?
>> Based on a federal study done in 2022, if you own a house when you a retirement age, your average net worth is 221,000.
The average net worth of a renter was $6,800.
But I'm sure that they've never taken into account that they're going to have to take a withdraw on that fund because that's what a lot of people do on that magical 401k is they take a draw on that fund to then buy their home. And then you know what? Now you're in a 30-year fixed asset. And now you're starting to understand why Dion and I are not only pretty, we're also wealthy. And you just simply have to look at the numbers. The debt that I have today will go up because of the cost of property property tax and insurance, but over a 20-year period, that $1,000 payment might get up to 1,200. What's your rent going to be if it was $1,000 20 years ago? I can tell you what it was because I was a landlord that long ago. 20 years ago, the rents for a two-bedroom apartment in my market were a,000 bucks. Now, we're bringing two bedrooms to market at 26.50.
26.50.
Guess you're not going to have nearly as much to contribute to that 401k as you thought you were going to. Again, housing, it's buying assets with levered debt on fixed rates. I didn't invent it.
Don't get mad at me. I just live by it.
And that's what gives me the lifestyle that I want to have that stocks couldn't give me even if they tried. Even if stocks go parabolic, even if Tesla does what Tesla does, you still needed 30 grand to put into it to even get to the word go and 30 grand in a house, it wouldn't have gone up as quickly, but you likely would have been living for a lot less money. And if you can control the cost of where you live, then it gives you a lot more money to, you know what, at that point, invest in more real estate. Sure, that's the smarter idea.
But if you're soft, invest in the market. Invest in the sucker and poor.
All right, before before I get to the last clip I may want to show, um maybe you can answer this question on your live stream. Are you going live today, Lumberjack, at 900 p.m. Eastern?
>> I am 9:00 p.m. Eastern time tonight. I will go live.
>> Okay. So, trading trading for science.
Um maybe you can jump on Lumberjack's live stream and but he maybe can help you with So, he says maybe tell me how I can get a home 0% down from my first rental. So, maybe you can answer that on your live stream.
>> Yeah, sure. I mean, I know what he's doing there. It's a straw man argument because he thinks that product doesn't exist. He's just wrong and he doesn't know how to >> I've got friends that just did that.
>> Yeah. Happens all the time, dude.
>> Yeah.
>> You just haven't found the product yet.
>> He walked away from $1,200 on a duplex owner occupied.
>> He's he's too busy trying to trade Stros and make the next nine cents. So, that's the issue. I actually have relationships with banks and I can pick up the phone and I can call them and I can say, "Hey, what do we have for this?" I just had uh for in and for investment properties whether it's owner o there's all sorts of options down there. There's ones out there where you can put 10% down and they'll fund the entire project if you get something with a rehab. Like my man like I get I mean you're poor because you don't know. There's so many options out there. That's what Dian and I spend our time finding and doing is finding those options for you guys, using them our ourselves, but also sharing them with you. I just sold a property offmarket for $900,000.
You know what my fees are going to be?
Like four grand. That's what my fees going to be.
>> I was happy to pay the fees. My agent earned his money. He'll earn it on the next one. I still walked away. I did a video the other day. Um owned it for three years, made a little over 300,000 when I factor in I lived there for free.
I had cash flow from the tenant.
>> What I walked away with on profit. And so that's the first one I've sold. I don't I'll probably sell one more and that's probably the last one I'll ever sell.
>> Yeah.
>> Not to be a topper, but I made just under $500,000 on mine and it's going to go into a It's going to go into a 401k.
Just kidding. I'm not soft. It's going to get rolled into a 1031 where I will take that $500,000 in capital that I just created and I can buy a $2.5 million building that will throw off that much more cash flow than the one that I'm selling does. the one that I'm selling throws off decent cash flow. But if I can sell it, get 500 out of it, use the 500 to put on another asset, that's going to give me a much greater return, I will more I will more than triple my profitability buying that $2.5 million asset over the one that I'm selling for 900. Man, this is Monopoly. I wouldn't play me. What's funny about my sale is I'm excited about the debt I get to create >> with the capital from this sale.
>> Yeah, for sure.
>> All right, I want to play this last clip and get your guys' thoughts before you wrap things up. But here we go.
>> I'm in no rush. My work was >> I'm a landlord who owns 20 properties and my only job is just collecting the passive income from all of these people who need to live. I'm not producing anything for society. I'm just an owner.
It's the same thing as kings. Like you ask most people, should we have kings in this country? They'd be like, "No, that's why we had an American Revolution cuz we recognize these people don't deserve this power that they say God has given them." Okay. Well, what about landlords? A lot of these people are making hella hella money. And all they're providing is what? They're owning that piece of property. And literally, their only job was they were able to buy this property when it was low on the market. Like to me, that is not something that is a metric of somebody's success. That's just somebody being at the right place at the right time. And they should not be rewarded for that.
>> But wouldn't you say they risk their own capital to reap the rewards of it? But if we're talking about should they take on that risk, I don't think so. They could have invested most of their time or their money in other ways that are more productive for society in order to actually grow, then take on that risk.
>> One of my favorite arguments and I think his husband shouldn't let him talk on the internet without supervision.
>> It's true. That's exactly right. See, freaking hate it when you talk first and steal my lines. Freaking hate that.
>> It's a great argument. Landlords provide nothing. And I'm like, great.
>> Yeah.
>> Because what?
>> It's a service. this this guy is just another soy boy, you know, who owns who doesn't believe so badly against it that he won't own the 20. So he still owns the 20. He still takes the money. But if he was just using that as let's just say he was just using that as an example. So basically, admittedly, he said, "Yeah, so they were just right place, right time, and they basically built the skill and had the money and had the credit." I mean, just those little simple things like the doctor who showed up and gave you life-saving surgery. He just had done, you know, 10 years in residency and seen the surgery a hundred times and then invented his own and, you know, now I mean, this guy's not worth 5 million bucks a year. Like, what a moronic statement. Listen, do I want that guy showing up? Do I want that guy showing up to fight a fire at my house or would I rather have Oshiro do it? I'd rather have Oiro do it because he's going to actually know how to turn on the [ __ ] hose. This guy is a clown. Like, and this is the problem with people is that they devalue other people's expertise so quickly. I've never gone against that other guy with his women's lib degree. I hope it earns him millions of dollars.
He just has no value in actual society.
So, I feel bad for people like that that don't understand how they add value because he certainly adds no value.
Credit is a thing. Cash is a thing.
Credit, you know, bankability is a thing. If you don't like those things, then you're just a communist person.
>> Where where does the housing come from for the people who don't want to own a house and everyone says, "Oh, everybody wants to own a house." Okay, so not everybody wants to replace the water heater, put a roof on, fix the foundation, put in the new windows, uh all the things it actually takes to own a house. So people, would they like to own a house? Yeah, sure. People would like to own a Lamborghini, but do you want to earn the money it takes to own it? Do you want to have the money to put the $4,700 brake pads on every year?
like owning a house isn't for everybody.
So the question to throw back to somebody like that is where do the houses come from for the people who don't want to own one if landlords aren't providing a service?
>> Yeah. I mean again I still look at real estate as one thing which is it's a service. I provide a service for those people that don't want to own a house.
They don't want to mow a lawn. They don't want to do do anything with the electric company. like it's a service to them, you know, just like their cars that, you know, that's that's a service to them. That's something that they use to get to and from A and B. And you know what? The dealership or the manufacturer provides a service. They provide their ability to do so. You know, our are car makers horrible. Lumberjack has the ability to cut deep. Yeah, it's true. I will cut you. Like, yeah, it's not a problem. I'm rude, but again, I'm not wrong. Rude, but not wrong.
>> Yeah. People call you a dick. They don't call you wrong. is totally different.
>> Exact. Call me a dick. I don't care.
Like like that's it's fine. I have people that take care of that for me. I let them know, hey, I was called a dick there. You're going to need to carry that burden for the day. Like I don't care, you know? It just doesn't bother me because again, I know I'm in it for the people that are in the trenches. The ones that are in the trenches, the ones that need to make a way for themselves.
Does trash a lot of arts degrees on the Yeah, absolutely. I trash degrees.
They're they're a joke. They're an absolute punchline. Arts degrees.
Really? My kid upstairs draws beautifully. No degree. It's amazing.
It's absolutely spectacular. I trash art degrees all the time because you know what? I never, literally never had somebody with an arts degree work for me that had any value whatsoever in the workplace. They had no value in the workplace. They were not good. They didn't execute. They weren't winners.
They didn't close. You got to remember I spent 26 years in corporate and I turned around a half a dozen companies from going out of business to becoming very productive.
And so I saw people every single day and I had to work with them. And you know how quickly people like that got off my team when they realized that accountability was a thing? They didn't walk. They ran. They ran. And you know what? We knew quickly who dead weight was and we got rid of them. So I'm going by percentages. largely people with liberal arts degrees have very little value in the professional workplace. If you're an artist, awesome. If you like ballet, [ __ ] fantastic. You want to be a psychologist, cool, join the club.
But at the end of the day, Drake, it makes it very easy for me because I saw it in real life. You're not just talking to a guy who's a loudmouth entrepreneur.
You're talking to a guy that spent 20 years, 26 years in corporate America, winning at every level, running companies, turning around companies, running teams of hundreds of people. I'm not some dipstick that fell off the turnup trap. And I wasn't born last night. I've run it. I've run these businesses and I've had to make tens of millions of dollars. This is not like guesswork. You wouldn't want to call him in the market.
Hey, listen. Listen. My kids would appreciate it because they would think it was one of their friends coming to save him.
>> And with that, I think we should wrap it up for today.
>> He's just powerful enough to throw him over his shoulder and potato sack him out the window.
>> Um I So what what do you guys think?
Should Zuber put this on his channel?
And I I'm thinking we got What should we do? Leave it.
>> I don't >> I think he should put it on his channel.
Nothing here was was too >> uh Yeah.
>> Okay. Um >> people don't listen. I mean, whatever.
Everyone, Matt will be live streaming 9 uh 9:00 p.m. Pacific or Eastern. And let him know, jump in over there and let him know how he did. Did he win the debate today? I think Dion did a great job. Um, a jump on.
>> Dion. Dion won because stocks are easier. I win because I'm not invested in stocks. I'm invested in real estate and I'm wealthier. That's the value.
Wealthier than stocks. I wish Matt took the conversation seriously. Uh, it devolved into rant more than debate. And I think Dion did a great job advocating well for stocks, which is impressive since this isn't his vehicle. Yeah, but Dion spent hours preparing for stocks and spent a bunch of time talking to Chad TPT. I came in from off the phone with my attorney on an eviction.
>> Yeah. Late to a meeting because you were so time consumed with your stupid real estate appointment.
>> Exactly right. Exactly right. On a building that I'll make in three years 175,000 bucks on. I'm such an idiot. But I should have probably played with stocks. Um, listen, I don't take stocks seriously. I have a little bit of them.
I really don't care about them that much. It's not even a thing. You stay focused on your stocks. I'll stay focused on my wealth. The fact that you have to go to work tomorrow in the morning means that you have to get up. I don't. I'll get up and have breakfast with my kids and chill and hang out. And man, I don't know if if if I had to pick stocks because that was easier and I made a lot more money and I could still do that with my kids, that's what I'd pick. But I picked the thing that allowed me to do what I wanted to do for life. Just like Dion, Dion doesn't work.
Yes, I don't have a drink.
>> We'll wrap it up with Yasik's comment then for the day. And as always, if your feelings are hurt from someone's words, you have bigger problem to solve.
>> Josic knows.
>> Yeah, he's from New Jersey. Like Josik gets it. Like he's from a state that's one big super fund. He gets it. He's not offended. He totally gets it. I love Josik. Josic owns a business. Josic has to grind every day. The bullsh that that dude has to deal with. Why do you think he's in real estate? because he says this consumes I sell my time one hour at a time doing this and I want to do something where it's a whole lot.
>> I think everybody watching should take away from this video that you need to invest in the asset class that excites you because you're more likely to stick to a plan that you're emotionally invested in when you get kicked in the teeth because real estate and stocks can kick you in the teeth.
>> Yep.
>> Great way to wrap it up, Dion. Everyone, tune in for Matt's live stream tonight, 9:00 p.m. Pacific or Eastern. I keep saying Pacific. 9:00 p.m. Eastern. And everyone have a good rest of the day.
Thanks everyone.
>> Ciao.
>> Thanks, guys.
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