Túrin Turambar & Anakin Skywalker - Cursed Heroes

Added: 2026-05-12

[00:00:03][music] >> If you are not with me, then you are my enemy. While this is a quote from Anakin Skywalker, I could also see another character, Túrin Turambar, saying it at [music] at least one point in his story.

[00:00:19]Hey everyone, Joyston here, and I hope you all are doing well, wherever you are in Middle-earth or the galaxy, because today we are talking about something that I've been thinking literally for years about, and that is how Túrin Turambar and Anakin Skywalker are very similar characters. They are cursed heroes, cursed in a way of I mean, for Túrin, literally by Morgoth, but by their own ambitions, egos, and passions, and and so on and so forth. Many years ago, uh one of my old friends from the from the channel, Clueless Fangirl, we did a podcast episode where I talked about this very topic, because we both really like, obviously, Middle-earth and Star Wars both. So, um today, right now as I record this, it's May the 4th, so May the 4th be with you.

[00:01:09]Um and so, obviously, I'm missing that deadline a little bit, but I do want to revisit this idea. Now, this won't be a full and total exploration of these two characters and their lore and stories and so forth. Honestly, I just kind of want to lay some foundations down, things that I've been thinking about in a bit of a perhaps scattered way, but I'll try to go through how they're thematically similar, a bit of how they're different, how their stories kind of align to fit that tragic hero archetype that we see um within both of them. So, my friends, thank you all so much for joining me today. Let's begin our tale. To start off, both Túrin Turambar and Anakin Skywalker, these two are characters that are defined by greatness. They both have Anakin more so than Túrin, certainly, but in many ways Turin also, a bit of a burden on their shoulders from their own people to be great, to be Again, for Anakin, more of a prophesied warrior, but for Turin, he's going to be the Lord of Dor-lómin. He's going to be the leader, one that carries them to greatness if something happens to his father, Húrin. Now, this kind of chosen archetype I mean, they're both marked for destiny, and [music] they both know about it, which gets in their minds and in their egos that they are fated for great things, for powerful things. And that leads them to the shadow of pride and hubris, which obviously leads Anakin to the dark side, and Turin to >> [music] >> more or less the same thing, but in the Middle-earthian sense, right? This towering ego does, you know, back It is backed up with how strong they are as warriors and how powerful they are.

[00:02:52]Um but, obviously, this turns to arrogance, where they're not going to listen to people that they perhaps should. Anakin, he believes himself above other Jedi and won't listen to their counsel. Turin, he does not listen to the wisdom that he should from the elves in his path, or he lets his wrath and, >> [music] >> again, pride get in his way when perhaps it shouldn't.

[00:03:15]And so, even though they are both heroes, prophesied for these great deeds, they do have a desire to do good things, but they sometimes take dark approaches to get [music] there, right? So, Anakin, he begins listening to the Sith through Palpatine to save Padmé. And Turin leads outlaws and eventually warriors in combat and so forth to protect the innocent, but they both have aggressive methods leading to the destruction of the very people that they wished to save.

[00:03:46]>> [snorts] >> In the course of their catastrophic fall, both of them actually massacre people that while them they themselves aren't necessarily good people and have done horrendous things themselves, Anakin and Turin. And honestly, this whole part of the the story is what made me think about their connection in the first place.

[00:04:08]They go on a slaughter of those that have wronged them and they kill all of them, right? For Anakin, this is the Tusken Raiders on Tatooine after his mother's death. Again, they captured and brutalized her his mother. Horrible things, but he killed all of them. Not just the men, but the women and the children, too.

[00:04:25]Right? And for Turin, he spends his time after the the fall of Nargothrond and so forth, he slaughters Easterlings, the ones who took over his hometown. And yeah, just probably murdered not just the guilty ones in this sort of animalistic rage that they both had to get vengeance for those that have wronged them personally.

[00:04:49]Beyond that, they also both, in an interesting way, failed to protect women that rely on them. Not necessarily fully for their protection, right? They they're strong women in and of themselves, but they trust them and Anakin and Turin let them down. For Anakin, obviously, this is Padme and this his desire to protect her led to her death and to the dark side.

[00:05:11]And for Turin, this is I mean, a couple different characters. Morwen, his sister, Nienor, and in many ways, most tragically, >> [music] >> um the the daughter of the king Orodreth, Finduilas, who comes to love Turin in in her own way and hopes that he will save her and [music] is murdered before he can. And and because he's lost along his way, he is unable to save her.

[00:05:38]And that leads Turin almost to his death just from so much grief there. But they both, in their egos and their brashness, they're not able to protect women that rely on them, which is a very interesting point for both of their stories. Now, do they slay the great evil in the end?

[00:05:55]Kind of and yes. So, Turin, well, he doesn't slay actually technically he does slay Morgoth in the Dagor Dagorath, but we'll get there. In his personal story before his first death, he slays Glaurung the Golden the Father of Dragons, which is more or less and ends up being his main enemy again besides Morgoth. And then Anakin, he does overthrow Emperor Palpatine just to save his son, but not necessarily because he wanted to, but because he wanted to save his son. He does so out of love. And in the aftermath of this, they both die pretty immediately after their great victory and after their redemption in many ways. Anakin dies after saving Luke and Turin falls upon his own sword out of grief and so forth. One difference between these two characters is that Anakin dies redeemed and saved and Turin, at least with his first death, does not. But, he does come back at least according to the Dagor Dagorath prophecy, if we can take that as canon, kills Morgoth and finds redemption at least somewhat in that.

[00:06:59]A couple other differences could be it depends on honestly how you see their stories. Anakin, he always kind of keeps his name and keeps his prophecy. He doesn't really go by anybody else except for when he goes by Darth Vader, but during that time he sees that as himself. So, Anakin, he always he kind of rises from slave boy to the most ruthless warrior in the galaxy all under his own reputation and name, but Turin does so under many names and hides his identity a lot of the time.

[00:07:31]But again, their underlying personalities, whether they take their true names or not, drive them towards greater tragedy ultimately, but eventually towards redemption in the end. Now, some of this you could also blame for Túrin on his curse. How much of this was his own fault? How much of it was the curse? Or did the curse have that much power in the end? For Anakin, again, I actually think you can look at the prophecy that he's the chosen one.

[00:07:55]How much can you put on the prophecy and how much can you just put on him and his own actions and free will?

[00:08:02]And so, what are some of the overall lessons that we can learn from both of these characters and other characters besides? Because the Túrin story was inspired by Kullervo, which is another mythological story that inspired Tolkien.

[00:08:18]But, ultimately, from characters like this, and again, I I I think there's so many more things you can look at that do draw the the two of them together. I mean, honestly, when you look at mentor figures, um Beleg and Obi-Wan, I mean, Túrin and Anakin turn against them, wittingly or unwittingly, right?

[00:08:38]And really end up injuring and killing both of their mentors. And they have these somewhat prophesied or legendary weapons, whether that is um Gurthang for Túrin or the red lightsaber for uh for Darth Vader for Anakin. And these are also symbols that come from their their turning towards darkness.

[00:09:01]Gurthang was a the sword of Beleg that Túrin took up and and slew him with and then kept it afterwards. And the red lightsaber was after the fall and betrayal of Anakin into Darth Vader. And so again, what can we learn and take away from all of this? Definitely, it's the ego and the pride, right? We have to watch out for the savior complex.

[00:09:22]If Túrin had not been cursed, and I'm not sure if he ever really truly figured out that he was cursed in the way that he was, uh or if Anakin did not know about the prophecy, perhaps more humility would have would have taken in uh with them and perhaps they would have become different in that way, but they let pride, vanity, ego, arrogance, all of these things overcome them in their pursuit of destiny.

[00:09:47]They were also very attached people.

[00:09:49]Anakin was very possessive, and Túrin, he was also quite possessive and protective in a way, and and that led both of them towards the utter destruction in many ways.

[00:09:59]Love versus over-attachment and this protectiveness that became very possessive, right? And the illusion of control. They both thought that they could overcome and not even think that they could overcome fate. They believed that they had mastery over it, right? Especially that's a huge thing for Túrin and his story as well as the name Turambar. And they tried to control their destiny both of their destinies in in ways that they really couldn't. And in doing so, that actually in very tragic fashion led them faster towards their doom.

[00:10:35]And so, even in their failure, they were necessary. I mean, Anakin, he did bring about the end of the prophecy, but it cost many, many lives to do so.

[00:10:43]And Túrin was kind of the same thing. I mean, he brought about the end of Glaurung and the end of Morgoth, but it cost a lot in terms of life and the kingdom of Nargothrond, the the people of the forest, and and so on and so forth.

[00:11:00]In many ways, both Anakin and Túrin were villains and saviors in their own stories. And again, there's just so many different connections between the two of them. So, I'm very curious to hear your thoughts on all of this. Are there a lot more connections that I didn't make? Or am I grasping at straws here, and they just happen to be similar in some ways, but there's no real connection there. I'm not saying George Lucas looked at the story of Túrin when when was like, "We're going to do that." But it's certainly in the same archetype, at least in my opinion. But I'm very curious to hear what you all think about it. From this tale, we must guard against our greatest ambitions and destructive passion to achieve them. For if we do them in an arrogant and untempered way, they may work against us in the end.

[00:11:45]Thank you all so much for watching. I hope you enjoyed this very different kind of video. Let me know your thoughts on it. I'm glad I finally got around to creating it. Please subscribe and share this with a friend. All that good YouTuber stuff, which helps out the video in the algorithm. And if you'd like to support the channel, check out Castle Konoha Lord of the Rings replicas and use that code in the description for a discount. [music] And please check out our merch. Join our memberships and Patreon for access to our Discord and our monthly podcast. And take a look at Masters of Mythology, our second channel on myths and legends, where I go into more things like obviously mythology, but also things like Star Wars and Diablo and other things as well. So, thanks to our Valor Two patrons and YouTube members, Joey Weasel, Ed Patterson, Comic Nut 64, Zoomy, and Peter Shepherd. My friends, let me know if you'd like to see other videos like this. Give me some suggestions if you'd like to in the comments below. I really appreciate them. And thank you all so much for joining me on this adventure.

[00:12:33]Until the next one.