Blood Memory w/ Philip Voodoo: The J. Burden Show Ep. 473

Added: 2026-05-09

[00:00:01]old man in a life, man. It's like this, man. You like butterfly flapping his wings deep down in the forest, man. It going to cause a tree fall like 5,000 miles away, man. Nobody see nobody [music] see like you don't even know, man.

[00:00:18][music] It's like you man like that. That's the point, man.

[00:00:25][music] [music] >> All right, Philip Voodoo, welcome to the J Burn Show. How you doing, man?

[00:00:40]>> I'm doing well, man. How are you?

[00:00:42]>> I'm I'm doing great. I uh here for another book review. I read Blood Memory, which is one of your books, and uh I will say I get recommended a lot of books on twitter.com, and most of them are really bad. And I realize starting off a book review by saying, "This is not bad." Sounds like I am damning it by faint praise, but that is a notable occurrence in my inbox. So, yeah, man. I really enjoyed this book. We'll get into it later, but before we do that, you know, as much as you're comfortable, well, who are you and how do you get started writing?

[00:01:22]>> Yeah. So, uh I I came to it all started when I came to Twitter in the uh sort of mid to late 21. Um I started writing these like semong form threads back before you could do that in one tweet.

[00:01:39]Um, I would string like 26 27 tweets together in these really oppressively long threads about history and military history and topics like that and and people seem to like him. Um, and I I made contact with a guy named Mark Sibi who had written at the time he had written one book in the Mongol Moon series. Uh, he's since written a second and the third is promised to come out sometime in in probably60.

[00:02:06]Um but he asked me to uh to write a short story. He knew I had a a background um helping some military friends with their various fiction and non-fiction endeavors. Um one of the the hazards of being a a literate infantryman is they all ask you to help write things for them. Um but it's that was a great experience and it was a great time helping my my friends and so I decided to do it again. I wrote a I wrote a short story for uh for Mark for his publisher. They were going to do a sort of a collection of short stories and the task was write write one short story about 10,000 words. Um I wrote three and one of them happened to be like 40,000 words and the the editor said you know can you cut this down to 10? And I said don't you delete a single word out of this we're going to have words. Um and and he said all right the other option is turn it into a book. So, can you add um 80,000 words to it and we we'll call it a novel because it's sort of built for that. It has the the bones and the structure to to be expanded on a little bit. I took it up and said, "Yeah, I'll turn this into a novel." And I uh that's where we are.

[00:03:18]Yeah. It's it's the structure of it is really it's honestly it's really sort of rapturing because basically and as per usual with my book reviews, we're not going to get into spoilers, not going to do a blowby-blow, but it's basically a giant chase the entire time and it's incredibly compelling reading, right? You just kind of get sucked along by, you know, the narrative there. And there are two things that I'm curious to get, you know, your thoughts on, which is one, like where did this idea come from? Is it something had been bouncing in your head for years? Is it something you just sort of had a little bit and you developed it as you wrote? And then two, the other thing that's really unique about this book is is the setting, right? Subsaharan Africa. And so I'm curious to get your thoughts on, well, where did this setting come from? And well, where did this whole, you know, chase where did that idea come from?

[00:04:15]>> Yeah. And it uh I think one of the things about about writing and and I I read obviously I think that's not going to surprise anybody, but reading about places that I know or or places that aren't foreign to me just fail to capture my imagination in a way that I would want to capture someone's imagination with something I write.

[00:04:39]there's always going to be this, you know, oh, I'm from I'm from Kentucky and if there's a a book set in Kentucky, I'm going to nitpick the setting or whatever. Or if I'm from, you know, LA and I read a book about Kentucky, I have an idea in my mind of what life in Kentucky is like. And so reading this book is always gonna have this preconceived notion of of what it's like. I think writing about Africa is as close as you can get to writing about a sci-fi world with it being real. And it's it's like that for a number of reasons, but it it's just a just a such a different setting than what you're used to. It's just such a different place. And one of the things that I I did as I went through the writing of the book was make sure that that Africa remained a character. You know, when you read books like that or when you watch movies like that, you know, in in places that most people don't spend a lot of time like a lot of, you know, a great book about the ocean features the sea as a character, you know, it it it's not the old man and the fish, it's the old man in the sea, right? It's this vast expanse of of nature that you're forced to contend with in addition to contending with all the the challenges man throws at you. And so I I wanted to write something that people had to use their imagination. Um and also it it made them a little um in some ways uncomfortable reading about it because they they can't rely on what they would do or how they would go to ground or you know in the event I would find a I would find a you know a gun store and I would find ammo for myself but there's no gun stores in Zambia. you know, there's there's no Cabelas that you can go to and raid, right? Um, and that's that's one of the things and and also the thing that I liked about it is, you know, it's certainly not going to be a spoiler, but in the Mongol Moon universe, a a series of EM and nuclear attacks knocks out almost all the electronics in in Europe um and North America. And so all of the the Mongol Moon universe stories deal with that in their own way, but nothing happens to Africa. Like Africa just goes to sleep and wakes up and the the outside world is just gone. You know, you lost the ability to contact Europe or North America. And so it's not so much a book about what happens when the power goes out. It's a book about what happens when the rest of the world goes away and how parts of the world are forced to continue on after that.

[00:07:23]And I'm glad that you said that about Africa being a character because it's one of my my favorite through lines.

[00:07:31]It's part of the reason why I love Louisiana. It's not because it's actually a nice place, but you know, you read Percy, you read all the Kings Men, and the setting becomes a character.

[00:07:43]You're sort of transported to that place. And I perhaps thankfully uh have never been to Africa. But even just the level of having been to the third world, which is a I realize an overly broad term, but you know, work with me for a little bit. You realize like it you're almost on another planet. that the way that you know we as kind of in quote unquote educated westerners think that normal people act that's highly culturally contextual right and you know if if you step into a place that's you know very very poor very dysfunctional that has a culture that isn't working you you realize that it works off a completely separate set of rules and I thought that was really interesting in this because the the broad strokes of the narrative is we have this this convoy this kind of mly crew of Americans, right? There's CIA guys, there's the embassy staff, the you know the ambassador, his wife, others all in this convoy kind of trying to join back up with other Americans being chased by a group of Russians. And so, yeah, sure, that's the overarching narrative. That's what happens in this book. That's what pushes it forward. But for most of the book in just going by page count, the Americans and Russians are separated. They aren't fighting, right? They're they're being kind of pushed along. And so most of the interactions are with the locals, right, the Africans. And also, right, you have this kind of fight against just the the hostile terrain.

[00:09:27]But I thought it was really interesting how it really is this sort of freefor-all zone. So you have, you know, technically hostile forces, Congalles rebels or, you know, people who are maybe maybe not allied with the government who in one instance want nothing to do with this.

[00:09:44]It's not their fight. And in another instance, for other reasons, become incredibly hostile. And I thought that you portrayed the kind of cultural differences, you know, the gap between you, the kind of western and I guess you could say kind of like broader African culture uh really well, really accurately in that. So I'm curious, right, when you were planning this book out, how much were you thinking about that that kind of culture shock? Because and I'll give you a more specific example. I think that the character of I not gonna remember her name. Sorry about that, Phillip. But the ambassador's wife is kind of a particularly interesting character. And so I'm curious, right?

[00:10:26]Like what was your inspiration with that? What were you trying to do with her in this book?

[00:10:31]>> Yeah, there's a there's a couple things that I'm glad you picked up on. The actual conflict between the the Russians and the Americans is a very small part of the actual storyline. Um, and you can make the case that none of the Americans except one who learns it about, you know, a third of the way through, even though the Russians are chasing them, you know, they they meet the Russians and and run into them one time, um, and they get away from them and most of the the convoy, say save say one guy, has no reason to believe or even suspect that the Russians are looking for them. Um, and so I think that's a that aspect of it, um, is sort of a a fog of war thing that if you pick up on it, you kind of understand how the world works, right?

[00:11:21]Because a lot of books will will tell you and a lot of books will, you know, show that relationship from both sides and it will say, you know, everyone knows and so there's this there's this chase and the one side doesn't even know they're being chased. And I think it it adds to the tension a little bit.

[00:11:38]Um, and her name was Nala, the ambassador's wife. Um, but one of the the things about the book is that the book is about people, right? Normal people. And one of the things that that sort of irks me about modern media, and we were talking about a little bit before, is that everyone in modern media right now seems to be a superhero in some way. Like they seem to have some sort of superpower. You know, you get obviously the Marvel characters who all have their superpowers or the the Jack Reacher type characters who are, you know, just mammoth people with brains that are better than everyone else's.

[00:12:16]Um, you know, the the Black Widows and the Black Sparrows or whatever they're called that are on Netflix now.

[00:12:22]Everyone's a a special forces Delta guy or, you know, some sort of super advanced CIA person. Like, everyone's got some some special power. But looking back at like ancient literature and then some of the American stories, they're mostly about people. And I think people link to that a little bit more than if you know, we're talking about Captain America. And Captain America even starts as a as a normal person and he's made into something super. But if you look at people who have these superpowers, how do how do you as a as a young male relate to that character? Can you I don't know that you can like you can idolize that character but you you you can never structure your life or the the course of your life in a way to become a superhero superpowers, right? But you could structure your life in a way to become one of the people in this story because these are all normal people. You know, they have sure they have some military experience or they work at the CIA, but but lots of people do that, right? That's not a that's not a superpower. That's a that's a thing that lots of regular people do.

[00:13:26]And everyone in the book has sort of a mirror character or a mirror plotline.

[00:13:31]You know, there's there's good Africans and bad Africans. There's there's good Americans and bad Americans. There's um not a lot of good Russians, but but there are competent Russians and incompetent Russians, right? And so you see this this balance between characters. That's sort of how the how the world works. And I think Nala, the ambassador's wife, more than anyone in the book, learns more, has more of a character arc and character development than almost any other character in the book, right? because she starts off as this this really, you know, stereotypical um blacks liberal who just, you know, hates everything that America does overseas and thinks we have this this cultural guilt that all all white people bear. And but in reality, she's learning throughout the book that things aren't always the way they look and things aren't always the way she understood them.

[00:14:30]going to school at, you know, wherever she went to school in Chicago. Um, and so that's that's one of the things just combat and war in in general change the way people view the world. And especially if you're not mentally prepared to go through those struggles.

[00:14:51]And and one of the things that a lot of veterans learn is that the the bigger the wall they put up, the harder it is to take it down afterwards, right? And you try to try to keep the war out of your your psyche and you you try to prepare yourself for it, but it still gets in there. But if you are not prepared at all and you just wander into the stress and and wander into the environment, it changes you in in ways that maybe you can't even control. And it happens very quickly. Um like all life and death experiences do. And so she more than anyone is one of my favorite characters in the book. And I had people, you know, send me messages being like, I hate her. Like I hope she I hope she dies. Like, and I was like, "Yeah, that's that's the point. You're supposed to not like her when the book starts, and you're supposed to have those feelings." And every time someone texts me that they hated her, I was like secretly very happy because it it means I wrote the character well.

[00:15:50]Well, and to give you a compliment, I not only did not like this character, but I'll admit read till about I want to say the kind of 75% mark. I was worried that she would be a very certain type of character in this book, right?

[00:16:10]The kind of like two-dimensional standin for like, you know, the SJW woman that we all hate. And look, like, yeah, I don't like those people either, but when you're reading a book, when you're reading a novel, it's like, well, all right, man. Yeah, I dislike those characters, too. I dislike those people.

[00:16:28]So, just putting one of them in and and holding them up as this kind of like hate figure. It's like, okay, like what are we doing? It's not 2016 anymore. But there really is a sort of a very interesting growth with both Nala and her husband, the ambassador. And there's this moment And by the way, Philip, I told you I was not going to offer spoilers. This is going to make no sense unless you've read the book, and I'm not going to give you any details. So, buy the book. But there's a a quiet conversation between Dr. Frey, our sort of main character's wife, and Nala.

[00:17:04]That's a really interesting interaction.

[00:17:06]It's it's might be my favorite scene in this book. I assume you know what I'm talking about, and I was wondering if you could, you know, explain what's going on there a little bit.

[00:17:15]>> Yeah. And I I I wrote that scene um because I I have a I have a like a sort of a pet peeve about battle scenes.

[00:17:27]And if you write every gunfight scene from the POV of the person who's in the gunfight scene, it loses context and it loses some of the impact if you write the scene from the perspective of a loved one who knows it's happening and they can't do anything. Right. and the scene that you're referring to and and I actually read about this later about a there's a there's a test that you can apply to movies and TV shows of two women having a conversation about something that's not a man. Um and this did fail that. They talk about their husbands for a lengthy period of time.

[00:18:06]Um, but in the scene, um, Major Frey, who's the main character, is, um, off doing a a small quasi raid with some of his guys in the night in Congo, um, to try to write a sort of historic or sort of contemporary wrong that's happening to some people. Um, the scene is is um, Dr. Freya, Amanda Frey, who's who's Major Freyy's wife, and Nala, who's the ambassador's wife, drinking a a bottle of wine, as as women are known to do. Um, and they're sort of on this hill and they're overlooking where Amanda Frey's husband is on this very life and death sort of raid. Um, and they can see the battle. They can hear it. um they can see the the flashes because it's at night. They can see the fires. They can see all sorts of stuff.

[00:19:01]But they're talking about people and they're talking about, you know, their different upbringings. And having come from somewhat of a upper middle class, lower upper class background. When I joined the army, there were a lot of people who said, "Did you like did something happen? Like did you get arrested? did like is there is there a reason this is happening to you and you're not going to Pepperdine or whatever school that they expect me to go to? And I said, "No, this is something I want to do." And they're like, "Well, I don't know what happened to you. you must have gotten arrested and just and that is a a conversation that almost plays out directly um in this story where Nala Brown who is the ambassador's wife has these preconceived notions of you know the phrase background and she knows Amanda Frey is a doctor and but she just assumes that you know Alex the major comes from this like you know I think I refer referred to as a directional state school, like your Southwest Missouri College of of Science and Art. Um, but he had gone to an Ivy League school. And that's not as rare as it may sound. I I knew quite a few guys who who had that sort of background when they joined the army. Um, but it's it's a sort of a a breaking moment for her knowing that the people that she is is watching risk their lives to do something that she's only ever dreamed of doing are people that aren't so different from her. And it sort of is a um a moment where she realizes that if this thing that I thought so vehemently is wrong, what else is wrong in my life? It's it's her her moment of gal man amnesia, right? Like I realize this one thing is off. What else is off in all of my other worldviews? Um, and there in the book there had been a conversation that happened the night before and then this action and and one of my my favorite parts of the scene is where she's thinking about, you know, all of these these young men, these young Americans who weren't from Africa. They had all volunteered to go on this raid. Like none of them had had said they wanted to stay behind. And that's how that's how it works. Like you know, most of them are young Marines. They want to go do the the thing that they had trained to do. They want to go out and be close to it with their with their brothers. And it's a it's a life-changing moment for her to see these people who have no vested interest in in this village in Africa volunteer to maybe maybe die to avenge it.

[00:21:55]There's there's another character much less important to the overall story, but I think it's kind of an interesting compare and contrast, which is uh the character I believe her name is Meredith. Is it Emmers? Is that the name?

[00:22:09]>> Emmens.

[00:22:09]>> Uh Emmens, excuse me. Who is this? I believe she's from Princeton who comes to work uh in this village, I believe, with Doctors Without Borders and that very makes a an understandable but sort of interesting decision. And so, you know, if if you could could you describe, you know, who she is, why she's important to the story, and also, you know, this kind of central theme of trying to fix Africa, right? Trying to like make it like, you know, Beverly Hills because that's something that comes up over and over through this. And you know there's a another albeit a different you know part of this plot that has to do with you know the Chinese sort of trying to come in and you know sure extract resources but it seems as if through this book no matter who is trying you know whether it's the Russians the Chinese the Americans Africa remains sort of unchanged. And so I realize I threw a bunch at you there Philip but I'm curious to get your thoughts.

[00:23:16]>> Yeah. Um, and and and first of all, the book is is definitely not anti-colonialism.

[00:23:24]It's not procolonialism, but it it has a more realistic view of of what colonialism was in Africa especially.

[00:23:34]Um, but one of the things about Africa and it's a it's a very western belief that with enough hard work we can make something better. And when we when we look at that and we look at that sort of juxosition in our in our western minds, we look at the land and we say, you know, with enough hard work, we can till this land and we can we can make western Oklahoma, you know, able to farm and I don't care how many dust bowls come, we can we can make this work. Um, but the thing about Africa is it's filled with people. Um, and while the land is hostile in a lot of ways, also very beautiful in some ways, but it's hostile, so can the people be both. And there are definitely people in the story who are are trying to make their their world better for them and them those around them. And there are those who are trying not to. They're trying to do the exact opposite. They're trying to to be the new colonizers, but in a in a more ruthless way. And the character of Meredith Emmens um is an interesting one because there's a scene in that sort of side quest where they have this this dinner. Um, and I wrote that entire scene and and as an homage to um the French plantation scene in Apocalypse Now. It's one of my favorite scenes of any movie of all time. And I don't even know if it's in the theatrical release. I think it's only in the like 9h hour long director's cut. Um, but it's it's one of my favorite scenes of any movie of all time. And so that that whole segment of the book is written to make that scene work. But Meredith Emmens is this this American aid worker who's sent to Africa to help establish this doctors without borders clinic. And she faces some of the same choices that other people in the book face of like what are you willing to do to make your mission a success? and she gets sort of this target fixation where the mission is the most important and and she gets this this bismarian um and I it's not um but the ends justify the means sort of mentality of it of what I'm doing isn't that bad because it's for a greater good or it's for, you know, a it's not that bad on its face because it's going to happen anyway with or without me. Um, and she's a she's an example of a of a character who has this moral dilemma.

[00:26:26]And she's the same as a lot of other characters because there are there aren't really any objectively bad characters in the book. I mean, when I say bad, I mean just evil for evil's sake, right? There are there are definitely quote unquote the bad guys.

[00:26:42]Um I mean there >> sorry not to corre not to correct you but I would be curious to get your thoughts on there is a uh welled educated African and his uncle who were kind of local warlords who and again not trying to correct you on your own book might be the closest to a true through and through villain in anything or any character in this book.

[00:27:07]>> Yeah. I mean and and that's true. Um, and you you but you see those people and you look at you look at Africa and you look at the Africa that's portrayed in the book and you kind of get this this food chain mentality of if I'm not at the top, I'm at the bottom. And life at the bottom is so intolerably hard that I will do anything I can to be at the top.

[00:27:33]And so you have to ask yourself if you took those characters out of Africa, would they act and be the same way? And I don't know that they would, you know, and it's the setting itself of being in Africa creates a set of behavior and it sort of tears away societal norms as we in the west know them. Um, but yeah, that character is definitely viewed as just a pure bad guy. Um, but and that's that's that's the question, right? Like if you were in Africa, what how would you act? Like what would you do knowing that if you don't you know, you could it's like this uh this red button, blue button question that's going on the internet right now. you know, are you going to look out for your own self-interest or are you going to hope everyone's looking out for your self-interest and and push the other button? You know, people in Africa are given a choice of maybe try to collaborate in a land where collaboration has almost always failed or try to try to carve out something nice for yourself and and hold on to it.

[00:28:40]Um, in a way, you know, a lot of the Mongol Moon stories are this post-apocalyptic people coming to grips with the things they have to do. But in Africa, that's already there. Like, that's always been there. Um, it's always been part of of the culture, especially in the Congo and places like that.

[00:29:00]It's it's it's baked in to the culture.

[00:29:07]>> Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, I I didn't want to interrupt you there on that point, but it was just a Look, man, when you get excited about a book, you start talking.

[00:29:14]>> Yeah.

[00:29:15]>> No, it's it's a good it's a good um point because I I'm I'm one of the goals I had was to to and I I hate when they you know, authors or or books or shows or movies or whatever, try to make the the villain sympathetic.

[00:29:30]>> Like none of the villains in this book and and there's a couple of them are sympathetic. Like I don't want you to like or feel bad for any of them. I definitely don't want you to take their sides. But villains have their own motivations and and to know their motivation is important. And most villains think their motivation is right. Like they they're not just villains for the sake of it.

[00:29:54]They think they have a legitimate grievance and they're going to do it.

[00:30:00]And a a lot of the Russians in the book act out of the same patriotism that the Americans act out of. Some of them definitely do not. Um, but a lot of them do. And that doesn't mean you have to side with the Russians just because they're patriotic. Like you would make the case as an American that our patriotism is more important than theirs. Um, but yeah, and having that that frame of reference that everyone thinks they're the good guy in their own story. Um, but from our lens, most of them are definitely not is is an important way to to look at the book.

[00:30:32]>> Yeah. And I think that that's an important distinction.

[00:30:35]Like the the thing that is unsatisfying in a villain is the sort of like, you know, must mustache twirling of like, oh, you know, I'm just such a bad guy. I want to do bad things. And like, okay, you know, that works for like a certain type of pulp story, right? Like some some real black and white morality.

[00:30:52]Like, I'm down for that. But if we're, you know, we're reading a novel here, we're really like getting into it. It's like, well, I don't need to like him, but I need to get it right. and the the motivations for the kind of you lead Russian bad guy. It makes sense. You're like, "Okay, I can understand why a guy would do that." You know, it's not just the kind of like, "Ooh, I will take over the world." And I think that that's a really important distinction because like the the relatable villain and the whole anti-hero thing, it's like there were there are some good examples of that, you know, kind of early on in that trend, but it sort of became it kind of became a crutch in a way, you know, it became a kind of a cheat. And I appreciate that you didn't you didn't go down that that rabbit hole. I want to go back before we move on because you mentioned something probably 10 minutes ago that I want to return to about the firefights, the actual action in this because I had I hadn't actually put it into words until you said it that there are there is punctuated action in this, right? It's an exciting book. there are things happening, but I wouldn't say the majority of the time, but a lot of the time you're not getting the perspective of necessarily our heroes. Several points at it, it is deliberately not old or shown to you, which is interesting. You mentioned the kind of raid on this mining compound. Uh there's another one which I I said I wouldn't do spoilers so I won't bring it up but kind of close to the climactic end of this book where you you know what happened but you don't get the kind of blowby-blow but also there are other instances where we get the the perspective of the opposition right we get the perspective of the Chinese the perspective of the Russians and so I'm curious was that a deliberate choice to sort of give you perspective of you know the guys getting wrecked basically Yeah, AB. Absolutely. And there's a quote um I'm going to get it wrong, but someone asked a a veteran of a of a major battle, you know, what was what was Waterloo like? And he said, I don't know. I only know the things that happened right in front of me. And of those things, I'm only only certain a few of the things I think happened actually happened. Um but but battles are like that. They're they're very chaotic.

[00:33:19]um you can only be sure you experience the things that you directly saw. And so to cover them from different perspectives where people might not know what's happening um I thought was a something I really wanted to do. like it's something that I don't see a lot um in books or movies, but it's a at least I think it's a unique way to to tell a battle story because so many people are used to watching you know the hero run through all the different stuff and you know the hero is not going to die but like you know that you know other people will and and reading it from this perspective and writing it from that perspective you're not exactly sure what's going to happen because you're not exactly sure who you're who you're talking about all the time because a lot of the characters in the battle scenes are new for those battle scenes. Um, and a lot of them are just just chaotic, you know, couple paragraph panic mode, you know, incidents. And that's reflective of how um a lot of of small unit engagements are, right?

[00:34:20]Obviously, if you're you're standing in the Battle of Gettysburg, it's not it is chaotic, but you see hundreds of thousands of people around you and you have a sort of a perspective of of where you are in the thing and you you know the enem is coming and and all this stuff, but you know, out in the bush sort of in small units, people just sometimes run into each other and they just shoot it out and they they all try to break contact because it's it's a natural human instinct to try to, you know, break contact away from from gunfire. But that was a that was a very deliberate choice to write those battle scenes in a way that one wasn't repetitive, but then two tried to find a way to to do it a little bit differently.

[00:35:06]One of the the other things I enjoyed about this book is this is perhaps most notable in film, but you see it in books as well. I really enjoy whatever the subg genre which is media where guns are scary because you know the classic example is like the John Woo you know millions of squibs everywhere you know nobody gets hit until the closing moments and the way that you portray violence in this is incredibly visceral. Not that it's, you know, kind of gratuitously going over the, you know, the the blood and gore per se, but in the sense that it feels as if every character is at very real risk when they are getting shot at. And I think that that's really a a credit to your work. And I'm I'm curious right now. I realize that. I think I've said that as an introduction to a question like six times, but it won't stop me. Uh I'd like to get your thoughts on on that. like how do you write action in a way that gives real stakes, you know, and doesn't feel like it's just sort of a, you know, an episode of the A team.

[00:36:16]>> So, I'm I'm making an assumption, but I think it's a pretty good one. You've seen Saving Private Ryan?

[00:36:24]>> Yes.

[00:36:25]>> Okay. So, the the Omaha Beach scene of Saving Private Ryan is really two different scenes. one is the the beginning where it follows Captain Miller, Tom Hanks's character a little bit, but once the front ramp goes down, it goes into a a wider angle and just starts following random American soldiers around Omaha Beach. And so for that that few minutes, you're taken away from the the POV character of Captain Miller, who you know is going to live, right? Because you know he's going to be in the movie longer. And you just watch Americans get get killed on Omaha Beach.

[00:37:01]And you watch it for long enough and you watch it happen, you know, in in gruesome ways like a flamethrower exploding or a guy carrying his arm or or all the all the honest, you know, gruesome parts of of modern war.

[00:37:18]And by the time the scene focuses back on on Captain Miller, he has lost that in a in a way that that hero's armor.

[00:37:27]And you're like, maybe he will die. Like I've just seen so many people die in this movie. I no longer believe that anyone is safe. Right? You're just inundated in the violence and now you're looking at it from a different lens and and most of the time you don't connect who's firing and who's dying, right?

[00:37:46]Sure, you see the scene from from behind the Germans with the machine gun, but the bullets are just coming and things are just exploding and things just happen and you're just trying to stay alive and and you're watching this scene and and it it pulls you into the scene one because it's from a a P like a random POV perspective and sort of a a steady cam of a guy walking up the beach. And so trying to write the the action scenes in that way I think helps to the the perception of anyone is vulnerable right because in the book you know obviously the main character um isn't dead as you go through the book but you get the idea that he could die and he even talks about it you know he talks about all the danger he's facing his different deployments and he talks about you know there's armor but he doesn't have any body armor. And there's one scene where he's on the ground talking to some Africans. And he realizes, you know, he's only got three magazines. And in Iraq, he's used to carrying like seven or eight with a bag of them in his truck. And he realizes for the first time just how how naked and alone he is out here without one, the the logistics that he's used to fighting a war with, but two, without any support, right? you're you're just a group of Americans out here in the middle of Africa where everything can kill you. Um, and I think that was like a very very deliberate choice as well. And I I've had people talk about, you know, how they're they don't like reading books where like the the hero solves everything or, you know, he's he's the hero, he's not the main character. And I I deliberately wrote it like that. and deliberately have this this internal struggle with a lot of the main characters. And that's how people would react. Like people no matter no matter how many times you've been to war, you feel fear when you get shot at. No matter how many times like you've told yourself to embrace the the knowledge that you could die, you still feel a little bit of fear response. And I wanted the audience to to understand one a little bit of the chaos, but then also a little bit of that that fear that maybe the main character can die.

[00:40:06]And I think that it it it adds to the kind of natural chaos of your setting where this is a world where the one look Africa is a chaotic place period. You know, this is not a place where there is significant rule of law.

[00:40:26]And also, our characters even given that are cut off, right? They don't have their tradition, the line of support they're used to. They don't have the direction that they're used to. And you know, by writing the book in that way, you add this sort of just baseline level of of risk to it where even an escape, right? Even when you you know, you have the characters sort of get past the Russians or get past this obstacle after the the kind of chaos subsides.

[00:40:54][clears throat] Well, all of a sudden, we we realize that there, you know, there are men wounded and killed. And one of the sort of interesting things about this book is that the start of almost every chapter has and look I'm never been in the military. This is probably some form that I am not aware of but basically a spreadsheet which has you know every organization there represented and then the status of both you know the machines the because you know a large portion of this is keeping you know these these trucks running right keeping them giving them enough fuel provides a lot of pressure throughout this but also this kind of actuarial table of how everyone's doing and I think it's a really interesting contrast between this sense of relief like our our characters have gotten through this and then this, you know, kind of stinking realization like, oh no, the fuel tanker has holes in it, or oh no, you know, that RPG went off in the back of one of these vans.

[00:41:54]And then to have all of that kind of summarized in this like very dry kind of table. It's a it's an interesting story device. I'll put it that way.

[00:42:05]>> Yeah. And that's it's ironically the uh the publisher Wargate who who's fantastic and and taking a risk on me wanted to to cut that out because it didn't format the right way. I was like no it it's you got to keep it in and you got to keep it in because it one it reflects one of the characters development arcs. Right. So the the sergeant major in the book um starts off as as a very by the book very organized very we do the process kind of guy. Um, and to his credit, he doesn't change through the whole book. Like, he keeps that sort of mentality, but by the end, he's softened and can make jokes about it, right? Um, he's still going to do things the same way, but he understands that it's become sort of like a comedic thing to a lot of the guys in the unit, but but those pur they're called purse stats, a personal status report. Um, those are delivered daily in the army. Um, and even on on tiny outposts in Afghanistan, you're every morning and every night, you're sending a a purse that back either by the radio or or by a a computer system saying, "Hey, we started the day with 20 guys. We still got 20 guys um present for duty. We've got all of our sensitive items. We've got everything. We're good to go." Um, and you, you know, report on your different uh categories of supply. But that is like a a core function of the army. It's a core principle of like reporting your people and and reporting stuff. And it's a marking someone. There's a there's a part in the book where some of the guys um are sent off on a a side mission, right, by themselves. And they're marked on this this purse stat is as what's called dust one, which is duty, status, whereabouts, unknown. And in the army, that's like a a very serious category to mark someone in. It means essentially someone's missing. Like I don't know where they are. I kind of like I know where I last saw them, but I don't know their status. They might be dead. They might be captured. I just don't know.

[00:44:12]Um, but the the discipline it takes to on a on a form or on a spreadsheet mark a friend of yours is dead is a like a seriously emotional trauma to go through. Um, because that it makes it official, right? like you know you you may have seen that person die but until you're you're forced to write on an official form like yeah this person is KIA this person is dead it it doesn't have the sense of permanence that it used to have and so this is a it's a it's a plot device I really liked mostly because it's it's such a part of military life that even in World War II even in the middle of Africa. Some of the people just can't get away from it. They they can't get away from, you know, doing what got them to this point.

[00:45:09]So, I've pretty deliberately been light on a lot of details and really on our kind of two main characters. these two these two brothers who are at very different I guess you would say have very different attitudes towards the world.

[00:45:31]So, one, if you could, could you briefly, cuz again, we're trying to stick to an hour and I I don't want to reveal too much again by the book, but what are you trying to do with Alex Frey, our main character, and then his his brother, right, who's much more mysterious and has a very kind of different role in this story, but is still kind of pushing people, you know, towards the the kind of finish line.

[00:46:00]So that the the plot reveal in the book now happens very early. In the short story, it happened very late. So it was like a a plot twist in the end of the short story. Um but in the book it happens very early. So I'm not that worried about people people figuring out it's a central tenant of the book as it is. Um but you could make the case that and this is definitely not true. There there's no you know Hunter S. Thompsony character who doesn't actually exist but does exist in this book. Um, that's not always true in in both of the short stories that follow the Mongol Moon universe that I wrote. Um, but you could make the case that that John and Alex are actually the same person and an event in their life drove them down different paths. Um, they're both, you know, tall and athletic. They're both sort of these all-American kids who went to great schools and come from a great family. And one of them ends up being this um family ccentric warrior. And the other one ends up being this sort of international not international man of mystery, but this sort of international man with nothing tying him to a to a life beyond what he does dayto-day. Um, and I think it's a it's a path that a lot of young men face the decision to make, like, do I want to, you know, go offshore and work on a rig for five years or do I want to get married or do I want to join the army or, you know, whatever. But the two characters spend a lot of the book um, at odds with each other. And if there's ever a sequel to Blood Memory, it probably would reveal what happened. Um, but they're these like this dichotomy of one another, but they're both sort of have the same interest in in their heart, but they go about it in two very different ways. You know, John is very selfish and and things he's right all the time and and used to like not having to report where he's going or or talking about what he does to people. Um, and Alex is is used to being in control. He's an army officer. Um, he's used to saying something and it happening. Um, and he's a he's a a father and a husband, so he's used to being around and and putting their needs first. And that's also a core tenant of this sort of Anabasa's tale of of what happens when you bring her family to war. And he's f he's forced to to face this whereas John is is sure he cares about Alex and Alex's family, but he has his own priorities and he's going to try to to get that stuff done in the way he wants to do it. Um, and it's it's a it's a little bit of internal strife and it doesn't go, you know, too far over the top because I don't I don't want to write a book where like there's betrayal by the people closest to you, right?

[00:48:57]Because that sure that does happen, but like the book is is really about the American way of life and the way Americans approach problems and work together juxtaposed against the way the Russians or the Africans or the Chinese do it.

[00:49:14]And a lot of the decisions that the Americans face are also faced by the the Russians and the Chinese and sometimes the Africans. And you you can kind of see how they approach them differently.

[00:49:24]But within the the American sort of sections of the book, you can see how different Americans approach the problem differently. And and using Alex and John in that role lets you sort of pick which American you would solve problems like. And I I want to include a a CIA guy because there's CIA guys all over Africa. Um and John is is definitely not a a superhuman super spy, right? He there are some things he's good at and some things he's really not good at. And he sort of fails a couple times doing a few things, but he's also very successful doing a few things. And that's that's sort of the type of character I wanted to to write, the fallible one.

[00:50:09]Yeah, man. This is really a very interesting book. I highly recommend it.

[00:50:14]And before we close out, I'm just curious like what comes next for you?

[00:50:19]Are you working on anything else? Where can people look for updates? And what are you thinking next? Is it going to be in this universe? Something else? You still interested in writing?

[00:50:29]>> So, yeah, the uh I've written um some some opads and some pieces for some some online and then some in in real life book. um sort of periodicals. I would I would say I'm still doing that a little bit. Um the audio book for Blood Memory is coming out May 5th. The pre-order is up on on Amazon and Audible right now. I did not read it. We got a professional person to read it. Um and I actually listened to the whole thing before it got released and made a couple notes. Um, so it I know a lot of times you read like military audio audio books and the way they pronounce things that are really rile up veterans. Um, but this is veteran approved. I guess you're not going to hear them say an M16. They're going to call it an M16.

[00:51:20]You know, they're going to they're going to do it the right way. Um, but yeah, that's that's available for pre-order right now. Um, and then it will drop May 5th. The book is is available still on paperback and hard coverver. Um, I'm getting a a a lot of pressure to write a sequel. Um, I'm not sure that that's going to h happen. It might. Um, to me, the the book is a, you know, I say this tongue and cheek, but it's got a pretty clear-cut ending. Um, and there there's no loose ends to tie up, and it it ends in in the way that, you know, is a believable ending. Um, but people, you know, I don't want to say that the more people bug me to write a sequel, the more I will. But, you know, it's all about demand, right? If people like it, you know, I got on Twitter to to tell stories about, you know, the military history and and things like that. And if if I think it adds value to people and the the way that people view the world and you know especially young men at that sort of crux of of their lives looking for not necessarily you know a hero but sort of an inspiration of how to solve problems. I think they can find that in my book. And I think if if that's something that that people do derive some value from, I could be persuaded to to write a sequel.

[00:52:44]Yeah, man. I'm glad to hear that. I'm eagerly awaiting whatever you come out with next. Uh like I said, I read a lot of books. I read a lot of things that guys on the internet tell me to uh and produce relatively few book reviews. So I said really enjoyed this. Recommend it to anyone at home. You can check the link in the description to find that. As far as my stuff, Juren Show, Apple, Spotify, YouTube, anywhere you listen to podcasts. If you want to support me, because this is what I do, uh, you can head over to Patreon, Substacker Gumroad, and get all the episodes early with no advertisements for like five bucks a month. It's a pretty good deal.

[00:53:20]Uh, also you can check out our sponsors, uh, Axios Remote Fitness Coaching. I've had a little bit of a head cold. haven't been in the gym, but normally 5 days a week doing what JD tells me to do. And then also, uh, Fox and Suns coffee. Use code J Burden. Uh, just J Burden. No extra characters or anything. You get 15% off there. Drank it this morning.

[00:53:41]It's good stuff. Highly recommend it.

[00:53:44]Again, Philip, man, this was a ton of fun.

[00:53:46]>> Yeah, this was this was great. We'll uh if a sequel ever comes out, we'll do it again.

[00:53:51]>> Sure thing. And everyone home, keep your head up. I can't last forever. Good night.

[00:53:59]>> [music] >> Oh no.

[00:54:05]So [music] [ __ ] [music] [music]