Take-Two on GTA 6 review scores, PS5 price hike, 2K missteps and more

Added: 2026-05-28

[00:00:00]This week, Take 2 delivers strong financial results. Ubisoft warns investors of a tough year ahead, and we spend most of this episode talking about Grand Theft Auto 6.

[00:00:11]Hello and welcome to the Game Business Show. In a moment, I'll be welcoming Dan Dawkins onto the show. He is a leader at Future PLC behind the Future Game Show and also the co-host of the GTA 6:00 podcast show and newsletter. Dan and I will be going through an interview I just did with Strauss and discussing the impact GTA 6 might have on the market and where things might go after the game is released. Before we get to that though, we have our news headlines and I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't mention the game Business Live. So, of course, we're less than or two weeks away now from this event is coming happening on Monday, June 8th at the Grammy Museum in downtown Los Angeles.

[00:00:48]If you're a paying subscriber to the game business first, thank you for paying to subscribe to the game business, but also you can come to the event at no extra cost. It's included in your subscription, but you do have to register. I've been sending emails out to try and remind people about that.

[00:01:01]It's also included in the summer gamefest industry ticket. So, if you have an industry ticket to go attend Summer Gamefest on that Monday, you can also come to the game business live. But again, you have to register. Also, tickets are available to buy. Reminder, we've got three speakers. So I will be speaking to Matthew B who when we brought Matthew B on he was the chief famous analyst that he is. He's now the chief strategy officer at Xbox. So that's bit of a surprise for me as as much as it is for you. Um he will be talking with me as our first speaker talking about the state of the market and and generally consoles and all sorts of things. Um then we've got Laura Mi.

[00:01:36]Um she is the EA entertainment president. She oversees things like The Sims and Battlefield and all those single player games that EA makes, Apex Legends and all sorts of big big titles.

[00:01:45]lawyers will be talking to me about all sorts of different things about where the market's heading and EA's view on that. And then finally, and I'm really excited about this, we've got Jason Rubin. Jason Rubin is the co-founder of Naughty Dog. He spent years at Meta. He was there at the end of THQ trying to save it. Um, we've got a wonderful story there talking about his career. We've got a load of special guests as part of that. As I say, that's all on June 8th.

[00:02:05]We're recording them all. We will be putting them out as episodes of the Game Business Show. But if you can be there, it should be really good. There'll be food and drink and and well, biscuits and cups of tea and coffee. But it'll be lovely to have you there. Um, I'm really looking forward to it. Tickets are still available. They are going. Um, we will be sold out. Um, and so, uh, yes, please do come and join us there. But let's get to the actual news, news that's going on, the actual video games industry. And first of all, because we're going to come back to take 2 in a moment with our GTA conversation, but Take 2 released its financial results for the year. And it was a 19% increase in both net revenue and net bookings for its 2026 financial year. Incredibly, they that's without GTN GTA game. They expect another 20% growth in the next financial year. Again, that's because of GTA. The firm reported that mobile made up 50% of its net revenue for the year with consoles accounting for just 11%. The remaining 39% was attributed to PC and other other I assume is VR and stuff like that. Anyway, NBA 2K was a big hit with revenue up 10% and the game is shipped 10 million units. Sales did slow down in the last quarter, but that's cuz they did so well in the quarter before.

[00:03:06]Zinga also achieved its highest level of netbooking since T2 bought the company in 2022. And of course, this is kind of the norm now. GTA Online once again exceeded expectations, as did Red Dead Redemption 2. These games always seem to exceed expectations. Red Dead Redemption 2 had its best sales year outside of its launch. The game has now sold 85 million copies worldwide. We're going to talk a lot about GTA and a little bit about Red Dead Redemption when Dan Dawkins comes on in just a moment. Um, Tat's financials are great. Ubisoft's financials, not so much. Ubisoft reported a sharp 21.8% decline in revenue and a 17.4% 4% drop in net bookings for its 2025 20226 financial year. The firm also warned that its next financial year will be a low point in terms of free cash flow. This is due to restructuring costs and a softer release slate. Their next big game is the remake of Assassin's Creed 4 Black Flag which should do really well, but it's and it's coming out in the summer. Ubisoft says it will deliver a strong rebound in the following financial year. So 2027 2028 financial year. The company said that new games in the Far Cry Assassin's Creed and Ghost Recon series will launch for April 2029. has got some big games coming, just not imminently. The news follows the cancellation of course of six Ubisoft games and a delay to seven others which was announced earlier this year alongside plans for significant cost reductions across the organization.

[00:04:18]So the Ubisoft turnaround is going to take some time. This actually broke just as we've recorded the episode last week.

[00:04:25]It's the US sales data life living the dream that's a Nintendo Switch game was the bestselling game of April in the US with over $41 million in physical and projected digital spending according to Sagana. So Connor is changing how it's doing its charts. This is the first attempt at that and covers the whole market. It's not just games that that are submitted to the panel. The Nintendo game debuted at number nine in the bestselling game of 2026 so far.

[00:04:46]Capcom's Pragmata was the second bestselling game of April. It was number one on PS5, number two on PC, and number three on Xbox and was in the top 15 on Nintendo Switch 2. though it wasn't a significant platform for the game.

[00:04:56]Brilliant game by the way. Nintendo Switch 2 was the bestselling console of the month. Overall US spending on games and hardware in April was up 3% year only to 4.3 billion. So growth is still continuing in the US games market. A couple of smaller stories. Epic Games has announced Unreal Engine 6, which will be used to power the next era of Rocket League. Uh the reveal was made during the Rocket League Paris Major last weekend. Very little else has been shown about it apart from a snazzy purple logo. Bungie is ending updates to its popular shooter Destiny 2 will now focus on developing new games. I think there's a bit of grief from certain players around Destiny 2. And the studio confirmed that it final live service content update will take place on June 9th. Bungie launched the Extraction Shooter Marathon in March. Obviously, that's going to take some of their focus. And maybe, hey, maybe it's time for Destiny 3. This is a weird story.

[00:05:42]Microsoft has agreed to pay $250 million to settle a 2022 class action lawsuit filed by Swedish pension fund AP7 which contested Microsoft's $69 billion acquisition of Activision Blizzard. The lawsuit accused CEO of Bobby Kotic of rushing the sale and depriving shareholders of a better stock price.

[00:05:57]It's all around this um accusation being made against Bobby. I'm surprised they settled on this. It seemed like a bit of a mad lawsuit to me, but Microsoft settled for it. Everyone seems happy. Um everyone is moving on. There's a couple of new studios formed and we don't always cover them because it happens a lot, but there is a new studio formed by former Housemark game director Harry Krueger. He last worked on the 2021 game Returnal. This new studio is based in Helsinki. It's a small team. It will focus on fast iteration, sustainable growth, and craftsmanship. Is working on a new IP for PC and console. Summer Game Fest is nearly upon us. There's a bit of excitement building around it. And a PlayStation State of Play Showcase has been announced. It will happen June 2nd, 2026. So, just before the Summer Game Fest uh kickoff event on June 5th, it will feature the upcoming Marvel's Wolverine game, which is developed by Somniac, uh or one of Sony's most prolific and successful game studios.

[00:06:48]And finally, I've got three small stories here. Indie event BitSummit set a new attendance record last weekend with 68,28 visitors, a rise of 17% yearon year. The annual event took place in Kyoto and Japan with an industry day on May 22nd and public days on May 23rd and 24th. It's really grown that event.

[00:07:04]It's done very very well. I've not been myself. I know lots of people that think it's brilliant. So well done to the bits summit team. Game services specialist roommate group has appointed Joanita Jord as its CEO. She she spent places like at NBC Universal and she was she had leadership roles at Monks and Publicist Group. She replaces Anna Koslova who left the role after seven years last month. And finally the game maker sketchbook has announced the selections for its fifth annual showcase. This is a project that shows the artistry in the interactive entertainment. It's sort of run by AIAS that's the Academy of Interactive Arts and Scientists. IM8 bit and 47 communications. This year's selections highlights concept art, um, environment art, character designs and storyboards from the likes of Borderlands 4, Monument Valley, Pragmata, Kingdom Comes 2. The jury panel sort of, you know, judges these things. They select these things and the works are available in the Game Maker Sketchbook online gallery and will be exhibited at summer gamefest play days from June 6th to June 8th in Los Angeles, California. And they tend to be made available on the IL8 bit website, too. That's the news. Um, but we're about now to talk about Grand Theft Auto 6. And to help me do that, I'm now joined by Dan Dawkins. He is the content director of the Future Games Show, but more importantly, one half of the GTA 6:00 show. Uh, is I got that right. GTA 6 o'clock. Yeah. GTA 6:00 was 5:00.

[00:08:23]>> Yeah. So, how long's that been going now?

[00:08:25]>> God, we started GTA 5:00 in I want to say late 2011 2012.

[00:08:32]>> Oh my goodness.

[00:08:33]>> It was a good 18 months before the launch of GTA 5 and was launched as purely uh yeah like a crazy bet to follow a passion.

[00:08:45]>> I was writing editing magazines at that stage. doing a lot of kind of like quasy scientific sleuththing work around games. My other obsession is Metal Gear Solid and I did a lot of work with that community trying to guess what Metal Gear Solid 4 and 5 would be. Then we thought let's translate some of that to the biggest game in the world GTA 5. So you know then we began doing essentially it it was launched within our company. I work as part of Future PLC you know big brand publicly facing company. We launched it like a black ops project where we didn't tell anyone we were doing it.

[00:09:17]>> I used to do that.

[00:09:18]>> I don't think anyone would have signed it off. Uh, and we didn't really tell anyone about it until it was big enough to be visible but also too big to stop.

[00:09:28]Um, so and you know I think to this day it's probably still like the highest engagement in terms of you know people coming and engaging and liking and everything. One of the biggest engagement things that future does.

[00:09:39]>> Oh wow. I um when I was at games industry biz I launched best place to work awards one year and I did it sort of I didn't tell anyone about it any money I spent was money that I got via sponsorship and the following year it would been so successful the following year we did it in a proper event proper venue my boss Simon Maxwell at the time and he um he uh he he called me into a meeting said Chris do you have an event on tomorrow I've been running it for two years at that point it's like it's a similar similar story really we'll come back to GTA cuz really is topic of today's show, but you're also doing Future Game Show, which is on Saturday, June 6th. Have I got that right?

[00:10:16]>> That's right. So, yeah, uh 8:00 PM BST, Saturday, June 6th. Yeah. Join us for uh 40 amazing game trailers. We've got 40ish. Uh I haven't counted today.

[00:10:28]40-ish game trailers. Uh hosted by Troy Baker and Alex Wilton Reagan.

[00:10:33]>> He's great. I like Troy.

[00:10:35]>> Troy, if you're watching, respect to you. Consumate professional. He tells me he does and I ran into the bafters and he said he's been watching but I don't know if he just meant he watched his one.

[00:10:44]>> The best one.

[00:10:45]>> Yeah.

[00:10:45]>> Yeah. Troyy's wonderful. We've wor with loads of great voice talent and it's always really fun I think bringing people together who may not normally be in the same space. Like the alternate flip. We obviously can't say this, but the alternate flip is it's Indiana Jones and Laura Croft together at last.

[00:11:01]>> Oh yeah, I see what you did there. I didn't even pick up on that. Oh, good.

[00:11:05]>> Yeah. and and obviously we can't go out and say that but they are the actors.

[00:11:08]So, it's quite fun, I think, bringing those worlds together. Great chemistry.

[00:11:12]It's It's really fun. And it's been fun for me working with people. For example, like the voice of Solid Snake, David hater. It's like so, >> you know, and and you do what everyone does. You get him to say something ridiculous just cuz you can. And uh he he probably dies a little inside, but it you know, for you it's a magical moment.

[00:11:30]>> It must be. Is it chaos though right now? Cuz you're what is just over a week away? I don't need to ask anymore, do I?

[00:11:36]>> Yeah. like we uh we're a week away from the show, but I think in terms of us making the show, we're probably like 2 three days away. Like we we're getting to the point where we send the show off for translation. So yeah, these are the sharp hours. So I think after this call, I'll grab a sandwich and then I'll be watching the entire edit and sharing notes with the team and that's where we sort of go, this has to change. This we can leave. This is fine. You know, all the stuff that's fine about creating a big project really. Well, let's talk GTA, which is what we're about. Um, now it must be quite easy to feel like a 6:00 show now because of the amount of Strauss Stone interviews that have been doing the rounds over the last two and a bit months because he was at Icon and he did his and he did a load of media around there and he was he's been appearing on podcast. He was on a podcast. I can't remember the name of the podcast. I saw him on this week where he talked about how he took over tape too which I thought was fascinating and we've just had the financial results and he's done a bunch of press around that. So it's always good trying to translate what he's cuz obviously he doesn't say too much because he norally he leaves that to rockstar but he says he always says something. He was on our show two months ago two and a bit months ago and last week he did the financial results and to give a bit of insider baseball I guess a bit like how the sausage is made but um Strauss and other companies do it as well. They make themselves available to certain press every quarter, every financial quarter and it's a bit of a fun game. Strauss is really good at this because if you get him for 30 minutes or an hour or whatever, he will answer your questions.

[00:12:59]He answer them fully. He'll go in depth on those answers. When you've got him on a 5 to 10 minute window >> in an investor call, he will answer your questions quickly, right? It'll be succinct and you'll get to them.

[00:13:12]Sometimes you feel like he hasn't quite answered it >> as much you'd like him to, but but that's almost the game. You've got to go in there, but you know, other journalists are doing the same thing.

[00:13:20]So, you've all got to it's it's a bit fun. And I always try and compete and go, "Right, can I get something interesting or can I get something out quicker than everyone else?" But this week, I didn't do that. I did do my interview and I just sat on it for a week and I've got it I've got some quotes here for you, Dan.

[00:13:34]>> Hey, good fun.

[00:13:35]>> TA it's I mean it's not it's it is it is short sharp answers to an investor, but it is sounding good material for you. On one hand, what he says is corporate straight bat, the answer you would expect. But within that, and I'm sort of laughing as I say this because I on one hand I'm like at the heart of a super quasy conspiratorial Moulder and Scully style GTA show where we're constantly looking for patterns in the tea leaves.

[00:14:05]Yeah.

[00:14:05]>> On the other, like my, you know, actual job is in the games industry. I've got, you know, we've done this kind of thing before. we know how it works. So, it's quite playful to sort of live between those two worlds. I think, you know, a lot of what he does you could dismiss as nothing burgers, but if you're like a fan of the genre and you look at the way he constructs certain sentences or the phrases he use, there's more information there than some realize. Yeah. And I think that's quite fun. And I think similar to what you said, you you might hear what he said and not think anything was said, but you go back through it and go, "Oh, actually, >> yeah. You could see that as a tell about this >> well someone who does do a lot of interviews the fact that sometimes he might say something he he doesn't say anything by accident and I think that's um that's the the thing about it even if you even if it doesn't seem like something anything you might be as you say so there's people who disagree with me with this Dan you might have an opinion on this I thought if they're going to delay it again they would have done it at this financials that was my expectation now I know Rockstar ultim have the final call on that I thought that is when we'll get it and I thought if it gets through the full year financials November 19th is locked on. If I'm if I'm in the games industry and I'm going, can I release in November? No. It's my answer to you now. However, other people I've spoken to in this industry have told me I still think there's a chance of a delay. What's your what's your take?

[00:15:27]>> I think my take is like, do I believe that Strauss Selnic and Take Two Believe is coming out in November 19th? Yes. I think if you look at the last earnings call like you say I think he's a very deliberate communicator and the language has changed from like release window and that kind of softer more ambiguous language to the last earnings call if you include the analyst questions I think somewhere between six to eight times the words November 19th was said out loud which seems ridiculous to pick up on but I see as someone who's like a fan of the Stra Shelnik genre that's a really deliberate thing and you wouldn't be out They're saying that were he not having extremely high confidence in that. And like you working in the industry, you know that even a release that's 6 months away, which we've just passed for GTA, there's a lot of wheels that have already had to go into motion.

[00:16:19]What I would basically say is I believe, take two believers coming out at that time. It's not impossible that Rockstar could say stop the bus with let's say four months to go, 3 months to go. But I really think at that stage it's got to be something catastrophic. Yeah. And all the signals to me right now are this is happening. Strap yourself in. And I agree with you. It's so market significant.

[00:16:44]>> This was the investor call to flush that out. If it was going to be the case, the next investor call is 3 months away.

[00:16:50]Then it's two and a half months to the release of the game. If they're delaying at that stage, that is, >> you know, wow. Wow.

[00:16:57]>> Yeah. What I always say is that, okay, you don't have to have a completely finished game 3 months from launch.

[00:17:02]anymore, but you do still need to have something that you can put on a disc and ship out to people. And I like to think they would know by now if they're going to hit that. Um, but we'll um it's a big complicated game. So, I'm not a game developer. I'm pretty sure if I'm Microsoft going where should I put Fable? If I'm, you know, remedy thinking where should I put Control Resonant, I'm like not November, right? You know, I think I think if you're hoping that might move or just keeping an eye on if it might move, I I wouldn't be banking on that anymore. Well, here's the thing.

[00:17:31]And Dan, you were talking about this on social media around the budget of GTA 6 and how much it needs to make and all this kind of stuff. I I don't actually I do care, but I think it's I think it's sort of >> it's a fun conversation. Um it's worth noting that GT Grand Theft Auto made last year half a billion dollars and that's from sales GTA 5 definitive edition and obviously GTA Online will be the bulk of that. But that's because GTA 5 was such a mega cultural moment and it's still in many ways even 13 years on one of the greatest games. You know, one of the pinnacle of video games. Some modern games don't match what that game has did. And I think that's really the important thing almost the budget even though >> the game is going to make its money back, right? It's Rockstar made more money in the years it's taken them to make GTA's costing them to make. So for me, what's important is the cultural impact of this. Can it lift all boats?

[00:18:28]And I asked a very soft question to Strauss around this because and he said when entertainment gets highly successful, it does have a cultural impact. And undoubtedly many of our properties have resonance with the wider culture. You're right. That is something we seek to do. Now that is a nothing burger, but it for me that's the important bit of this this GTA journey is that it creates that mega moment. And I'm interested. You've got probably more metrics than me working from the consumer media and the consumer side of things, but the the buzz around this, I don't think I've ever seen anything like it in entertainment. I don't think there's anything in books or in movies that has this ground swell of sort of anticipation and being discussed. I a fun story. A couple of years ago, I went on the Derma Olier radio 2 show. Wasn't about video games. It was he had a segment called inappropriate lullabibis, right? And it was about basically songs that you play to your kids that got them to sleep. And by the way, my the song that used to get my youngest, my eldest to sleep was Lonely This Christmas by Mud, which is a very very very very depressing song and it's something that we had to play all year round. So in the height of summer, he would fall asleep to Lonely this Christmas by Mud because it don't I don't know what it was about that. But so that I was on for that and of course Dermit's team does a bit of wrecky, you know, who are you? What do you do for a living? And when as soon as he found out I was a games journalist, I got six questions from Derma about GTA 6 and nothing else. They didn't ask about my life or my kids or my family at all.

[00:19:47]We just won't know about Grand Theft Auto. I for me that speaks to this how big this moment might be for for entertainment, for culture. Um, not a question, but I you you've you live it.

[00:19:58]Do you know it's weird cuz I get so lost in the weed of the financials and all the day-to-day. I sometimes forget about culturally this is such a moment and like to speak to that impact, right?

[00:20:07]Like you see videos go on social media like you'll see oh it's famous you know world's best striker Erling Harland sat in his amazing house talking to social media saying of anything in the world he could do and this is a guy who's won the Champions League he can't wait for the release of Grand Theft Auto 6. It's that big a moment that anyone who's anyone who's interested in video games has eyes on this release. And you know, and I could talk for this honestly for hours.

[00:20:35]And I think it's, you know, I think a lot of it goes through Rockstar's roots in coming from the entire industry, I guess, from a different lens being essentially from the music world. And what particularly what GTA 3 did that intersection of like the first sort of fully explorable 3D open world that gave you this freedom or illusion of freedom intersected with the the popular soundtrack which you know Vice City went to another level like when you step on a motorbike and it's literally Billy Jing from Michael Jackson playing that burns that burns into people's psyches and and it's I think it's that sort of cultural smash that GTA does so Well, that elevates it above anything else. This is the apex of of what people can make given essentially an unlimited budget to create an interactive experience. And there's a fascination, maybe a jealousy, I don't know what you call it, right, about that happening, but you just want to know what are these wizards at Rockstar going to cook up, right? And and for me, and this is part of the thing, you know, when I write a newsletter every week, and I say loads of it gets lost in the weeds, we used to run a section in the newsletter called uh that thing that magic, which is the words that Michael speaks at the start of GTA 5's first trailer where they almost referencing old Hollywood. And he goes, "Why did I move here? I guess it was the weather, that thing, that magic." And for me, that's that's Rockstars games. They're like this this hark to old Hollywood.

[00:22:04]this idea of, you know, Willy Wonka, the magician behind the curtain. What are those wizards at Rockstar North cooking up? And I think for that reason, all eyes are on it. And and I, you know, it's I think it's easy to forget how exciting that is in all amongst the talk of when is trailer three, what Strauss said now or not said now. At the heart of it is this potentially amazing video game.

[00:22:26]>> Yeah. And and I'll come back to what I think the industry should be thinking about around this, but um I asked Strauss about the critical reviews cuz here's the thing. Criticism has shifted in the years since GTA uh five. And I'm interested, you know, I've heard the stories, Dan, you might have experienced it, of the former Rockstar PR Hamish, having to call up journalist, why did you only give it a nine? They really really cared about what people thought about their games. Basically, it really mattered to them. So I was interested to know I was like you know Strauss isn't rockstar but I asked him like how important the critical review is still really important he went of course. Then I said in the same way as they always have been and he went yeah I said as much as it has been in the past. He went in the same way as it has been in the past. Rockstar scores are typically in the mid9s sometimes high 90s. Not many games can say that and that's a reflection on Rockstar's commitment to quality. Here's the thing. Um I'm worried that Rockstar might get a nasty surprise with the reviews. Not because I don't think they're going to be amazing as I think they are. But I think the industry shifted a bit in that people will give there are lots of differenting opinions now on things because the industry's got wider. You got more voices, got more people with different perspectives and different analysis. I'm sure someone will rate the game down because of the union situation that Rockstar's facing.

[00:23:44]I'm sure there'll be somebody in that space that will have issue with that and that's their opinion and feelings around the game as a rel in relation to what's happening in the real world. There might be somebody who doesn't like violence end ups reviewing the game. I don't know. So, I think they might end up finding themselves with a few scores that that wouldn't have happened in the past. That's my feeling. You you work in the in the media world. Yeah. And no, nobody can tell like ultimately how good is this game? Where will it sit in the alltime chart? Is there a risk that it's genuinely a disappointment? But I think you you've hit exactly the nail on the head. We are 13 years past the release of GTA 5. the media and cultural environment is completely transformed.

[00:24:24]And at that point in time, let's say 2013, it was easier, not not you know, easy, but easier to handpick the journalist you wanted to be reviewing that game ahead of time. You know, I was one of those journalists. you know, I I got essentially taken on Deluxe House Arrest to play all of the GTA, like including I got a memory of playing uh Grand Theft Auto San Andreas uh whilst under house arrest in a very posh hotel in Chelsea by the harbor and like PR sitting with me for like 12 hours of the day and like I think I was at the point of being the first person in the world outside Rockstar to finish GTA San Andreas. Uh, and spoilers, I died in the flames in the last mission. And I turned to the PR guy and and he could see almost tears in his eyes and he went, "I've got to go home. I've got to be up in 2 hours. We we can't go again." And I was like, "Oh, it's so close."

[00:25:19]>> But and I think but to go back to the idea of the macro environment, there's people social media is so noisy and there's people who make it someone has to be first to say the thing you like is rubbish, right? and and someone will do that and that all narratives are available at once now about everything and it's slightly exhausting and I do agree Rockstar are going to get from the gate some dissenting voices. Does that mean the game is any more or less brilliant? I don't know. No, but there's going to be dissenting voices. Strauss says it's something that's very important to them. I don't think it matters as much either. Like I'm not saying that criticism doesn't have a role to play. But if you look at the any data that comes out from any like motivating factors behind why people buy a game. It is in the lower part of the motivating factors behind buying a game.

[00:26:02]I think those us you look at sort of Crimson Desert didn't get great reviews.

[00:26:06]Didn't get terrible ones. We didn't get great ones but it did incredibly well and the users are very satisfied with it. And then of course they managed to update it and improve it and maybe it would have a different score if it was rebated today. But the way gamers are, I don't I don't I don't even think in hindsight, you know, there's been games that got rave reviews in hindsight, we're probably going, "Yeah, was it a cultural moment? Was it that was it that special?" And there's games that sort of got eights and sevens and that you go look back on and go is now seen as, you know, icons of the industry. I said, this isn't necessarily a comment on criticism not being relevant. I just don't think it's the main thing to concern about uh around GTA. I don't think a 94 Metacritic is going to be an indicator of the impact this will have.

[00:26:45]No, I look I I completely agree and in fact we we talked about this before we went on air and I think and my answer to the question was does it matter? Yes and no. I think ultimately it won't derail the success of this game. It would have to be like critically mowled unanimously to I think to have any impact on its >> uh you know it business prospects and it just seems so improbable. You're not talking about some rookie studio never made a game. No, >> every single one of their quadruple AA releases has been a >> 90% plus, you know, standard bearer. It feels hard to fathom that's not the case.

[00:27:22]>> But whether then it's a case of heightened expectations readying people to go it's only a HD version of GTA 5 with the mechanics of X, you know, there'll be people, you know, looking for it. Yeah. I perhaps the older Sam houses of Rockstar can sort of It's all right. It's all right if it's an 89. It doesn't mean doesn't mean it wouldn't have been a 90 says GTA 6 will get 89.

[00:27:45]Don't say that.

[00:27:46]>> No, I nothing wrong with 89. Resident Evil Recquum 89. I think that's a masterpiece. Um um so obviously from an industry point of view and this is where things matter is what is from my point my perspective is what will GTA do to the market and my expectation is this is going to do a huge amount for the market. I think it will drive a lot of console sales. I think it's going to get a lot of lapsed people, people that may have I've got people in my life, Dan, you must do as well, who um probably the last console they owned was an Xbox 360 and PS3 with GTA 5, right? And they are watching this. But we had Matt Piscatella from Sakano on the show um not so long ago, and he talked about how there's going to be a bit of a price shock for customers when they come in and go, "Oh, I want a GTA 6. What console should I get? It's a PS5. How much?" Right? You know, it's a how much for this thing? And I I asked Strauss about this. I actually asked him about this in the last interview I did with him and um he was like I'm not worried about it. Since then the PS5 price has gone up and the Switch 2 price has gone up and it's this time he said I'm sure the price increases will have some influence and I don't think it will be a positive one. I do think consumers remain highly interested in interactive entertainment and in the consoles that delivers that entertainment. At that point uh Laney Goldstein who doesn't normally add anything in these interviews but I know she's there. She replied, she joined in we do think GTA 6 will drive console sales which is I mean again stating the obvious here. I think it will as well and this is where I think from a consu I think this is why this is interesting because there will be parents looking to justify this.

[00:29:14]There'll be there'll be moms and dads that going I want GTA 6. Let's get a console for Christmas for the family or whatever. And I made a joke to Sony a couple of years ago now. And it I say joke, I was kind of being serious, although it'd never get it through the age rating body that um what they should do is make a hardware bundle with GTA 6 and like Astrobot or or guess maybe. And um because you go, right, here's here's your game and here's the game the the children can play on Christmas morning. That's absolutely fine. Again, the age rating body will have all sorts of issues with that, I'm sure. But I do think it will have a really big moment and and I know that it November's been wiped off the calendar and probably the start December as well for a lot of the games industry.

[00:29:53]But if I'm 007 first light, if I'm Lego Batman, we're buying this console for us, but we'd like to get something for the kids. Well, Lego Batman's a great thing. Black Friday is the week after GTA 6 launches, you go, "Right, let's put that in a in a sale in a promotion.

[00:30:06]7 First Light might be everyone's, oh, I could get that game as well. It's a bit GTAish, and maybe that will appeal." I think of things like if you are somebody that last GTA game you played was the last GTA game which was in 2013. It's quite a good year for those sort of more nostalgic players. There's a new Tomb Raider or a remake of Tomb Raider.

[00:30:25]There's Resident Evil. There's there's a Bond game. Like there's loads of stuff that sort of would speak to that sort of more perhaps older audience of players.

[00:30:33]So I think there's a great opportunity for the industry here. I think there'll be a halo effect. There'll be more hardware, more people engaging in games, people dusting off their consoles maybe.

[00:30:41]And that's a wonderful opportunity for the rest of the business to go, we've got games, too. Here they are, half price, uh, or whatever the price is.

[00:30:49]Jump in. I think so. And I guess I guess it's going to have a huge impact on the media as well, right, Dan?

[00:30:54]>> Yeah. I mean, there's there's lots of angles there. Like, long story short, yes, I think this is a net good for the industry. It's a look at me moment for all of video games. I I'm the same. I've got lots of friends. Some are more engaged with gaming than others. All of them are aware of GTA. And it's it's the fact it's coming out. A lot of them wouldn't have already bought Xboxes or PS5s. This is the moment you would step in and enter. And it may be the only game you buy or as you say, it's the game you buy and you go, "Well, now I've got the console. I'll get, you know, my son, my daughter, whoever. We'll get them this game. We'll get them that game." I really enjoy GTA. Let's try 007. I agree with all of that as a thesis. So, I think this should be within the industry. We should see this as a net good. This is what Strauss always says. Of course, he would. I mean he wants to project it as a net good.

[00:31:40]Like for me I look at it as something like in cinema where you'll get uh it's a James Cameron film. He's he's bringing 3D to the cinemas. Behold what cinema can do, how it can move you. It's a technical moment like a Christopher Nolan movie. It's an event, right? And it just gets focus on the medium in a way it hasn't been. And let's be really clear and I don't know how you feel about that. I'm sure lots of people listening will agree or disagree. I think we've lived through a if you really zoom out of the industry and some people would argue this doesn't matter the the technical level of change between consoles is not what it was you were not getting the same level of graphical leap which matters I think because some people look and go oh wow people look real now or you know that kind of like look at how the graphics have improved I think that shouldn't be undervalued and I think a lot of people have lived through what's been almost like a groundhog generation of of a lot of the key releases were the key releases last time around. And I don't want to start calling games out necessarily, but I think you know what I mean, right? We've we've lived through a very iterative period in history. I would argue, right? And there's loads of exceptions to that rule. Loads of brilliant, inventive games, but in terms of the mainstream view, I think I think video games have looked fairly stagnant.

[00:32:57]>> And I think it will take something like GTA and look, you know, we again, we don't even know how it really looks, right? But we see in the trailers they say they're using in-game footage. It's when it's up on plasmas in shops, stores, in your friend's house that's just is going to stop people in their tracks and go, "H wow, I'm in." And and that actually harks to me of like why I even got into video games. I remember going around a friend's house who had a Commodore 64. I had a Spectrum and the Commodore 64 had color graphics, right?

[00:33:27]And I was like, "This is impossible."

[00:33:29]And listen to the sound. And this is Commando. I don't know if you remember that on the Commodore 64. And just that technical leap up, it it blew my tiny mind. This game has the potential to do that for a whole sort of perimeter generation of people who are lapsed gamers or maybe not gamers. And I think that's why we should all be really excited about it, assuming it delivers, right? Of course.

[00:33:52]>> Yeah. And I think there's a wonderful opportunity for the industry and oddly because this year is such a strong year for AAA release. It's those sort of mainstream games that GTA fit into. I think there's a good chance. Look what I will say this. I said this during COVID as well when loads of gamers came in for co I'm not saying GTA is going to have a COVID level impact but but like but but when when that happened I did say and in fact a few people commented on it that we can't expect everybody who came who's who's booted up their console come back to consoles or or P game PC gaming whatever come back to gaming or new to gaming to stay in this space once we can go back outside again right we can't expect people to hang around. What would be key for the industry is if they can keep some of those people around.

[00:34:37]Whether those people who who originally didn't play any games at all, can we keep them playing games? Not as much as they were during co, but can the games industry do that? It's not about matching the COVID numbers. It's about beating the numbers that happened before co and I think that's the thing with GTA 6. I think there will be people that come in that haven't played a game for a long long time. What can we as an industry do? what what the rest not on Rockstar it's on the rest of the industry to go how can we um you know get them to play Bond or or Lego Batman or whatever you can go any further about Call of Duty whatever um Fortnite what can we do to say hey like this maybe play this and I think that's on the platform holders on the media as well and look I don't next Christmas Christmas 2020 um uh what year we 2027 won't won't be won't be as big as Christmas 2026 can it be a decent size bigger than Christmas 2025 and I think that's got to be the goal rather than and I and I think there I think there's an opportunity. I do.

[00:35:35]One other question I asked Strauss because it this just comes from the fact that he's doing a lot of interviews at the moment, right? And just, you know, he seems to be doing a heck of a tour and he's 68, right? So part of my brain was going is this a farewell tour of Stra, right? Just just a speculation in my mind. So I asked him if I didn't ask him that question. He was never going to answer that. Um, but I I I asked him if he thought that we're going to see a lot of people leave because people have been working on this game for 10 years. This is going to be the pinnacle of entertainment relaunches. You got that game out.

[00:36:09]It's it does whatever it does. Should we expect people, whether it's Strauss or anyone at Rockstar to go, "Right, that's done. See you later. We're off." And his response was actually was very forthright. We don't see that in our company. We have a very low attrition rate at Rockstar. Take 2's overall tition rate is about half that of the industry average and we have a lot of work to do after the launch of GTA 6 and I have no reason to believe that we'll see in any changes in the composition of the team here. Um so no he says but I don't know I there comes a point when I guess you might just go it doesn't get better than this. I don't know. Yeah, I I agree. And I think because of the huge cycles between GTA games, like if you think in the 13 years since GTA V to GTA 6, they've actually had a huge churn in terms of some of the, you know, Rockstar wasn't the most visible in terms of public figures, but you had Dan Hower, like lead writer on every game up until a certain point. Now, Dan's actually now been gone for quite a long time, but he was a really key figure head. And as much as they would give interviews, Dan would give interviews, it always felt like whether it was true. And and Dan's done a lot of press now. He did a really good talk on the Lex Ridman show that was really really revealing. I thought for so essentially for creative who's been so influential but yet so opaque >> for over 20 years and to suddenly come out and really open up about the process. I thought that was so interesting. And it really did feel like a lot of it. He was out there on his own doing a lot of this stuff. He did say at the same time, it's not just me. It's not just me. Of course, right? But in terms of the writing and the genesis and the idea, when someone like that leaves, that's a shift. Even when someone like, and I remember going to see GTA online, I think we were the first people to see GTA Online and being taken into Rockstar North and taken into Leslie Benzy's office. And Leslie Benzy's office was, and you know, I don't know what that office is like now. Leslie Benties isn't there anymore, but they were honestly it was like being an art gallery but for screens as far as the eye could see with screens with charts, reports, bugs, squished, graphs, charts. It it was like something out of a surveillance movie, you know, you just you couldn't believe it.

[00:38:18]>> Wow. And and again, you know, people who work there would have a different view to me potentially, but it just felt like this degree of like authorship and this process would change with a different figurehead. And I just wonder, you know, if a few key people leave and who knows what happened to Strauss. I didn't I can't believe he's 68. He's looking great, right?

[00:38:40]>> I know.

[00:38:40]>> Looking so good.

[00:38:41]>> I'm 40. He looks way better than I do.

[00:38:45]>> So yeah, maybe we need to release a GTA 6. um if he leaves that's seismic because those key figures in a company it subtly changes the trajectory and the leadership and things will and I look at it very much as an analog for and again apologies for people who don't follow this um like a football manager leaving you know I'm a big Manchester United fan and half people will switch off as I say that but like when Sir Alex Ferguson our legendary manager who was there for 20 years left and at the same time like the managing director who worked with him left that did irreparable damage to the culture of Manchester United because so much of it was bound up in those two people. So again, I'm not saying this is going to happen with with GTA 6, but a few key figureheads were they to move on because they felt it was their time and they Dan Der said this, he almost felt he couldn't do another one because you're taking so much out of yourself, right? And you you you look at other big creatives like uh Cory Barlo when he launched the first God of War. I think he's spoken I hope I'm not misquing him spoken quite openly about the toll that took on him.

[00:39:52]>> It's so hard to make a video game. And I say that as someone who doesn't make video games. I make much smaller scale things. And I often say >> in silent contemplation going this is really hard. Yeah, I cannot imagine what that's like with those budgets, with those levels of staffing and the complication of cascading decisions that takes a toll on people.

[00:40:11]>> Yeah. Also, there comes a time you can't do it forever. Um, it's interesting though I doing preparation for this Jason Rubin talk I'm doing at um the game business live and it's a really interesting story of someone who really handled a transition right because Naughty Dog for 20 years was Jason Rubin and Andy Gavin, right? They were the creative directors. They created Crash Bandicoot. They got behind Jack and Daxter. they built that studio. Um they were they were the studio and then when but they really transitioned it very well by bringing in people like Evan Wells those sort of people to take over from them in a very very well-managed transition which enabled to actually go to actually build on what they did and go even further. So, you know, it doesn't necessarily mean that change, but it just I wouldn't be surprised if we do see, as you pointed out, Dan Hower and Desi Benz didn't leave like a day after GTA V. It was years later and they took some time off as well. And they obviously they will have an online component or some online element to GTA 6. There's the PC version to come.

[00:41:07]There's more to be done. And this is the thing that Strauss says, we're not finished on November 19th. Like, it's we've got more to go. So, it might might not be, you know, November 20th, everyone's uh resignation letters coming, but I wouldn't be surprised if um I actually do wonder if we'll ever get anything like GTA again cuz the industry shift AAA industry is shifting now at the moment. You've got two things happening. You've got the indie space going, "Oh, we can launching hits and going, now we have a bit more money, we can make bigger sequels." Some of them are, some of them are sticking with the budgets they are on. And you've got these big AAA companies going, "Hey, can we do something a bit more focused? make something a bit faster on therefore short, smaller budgets, more realistic budgets. And I do wonder if, and I know Rockstar probably will always make games like this, but I do wonder if we'll ever see anything if this is the last of the great blockbusters for video games.

[00:41:53]>> Yeah, I I got into it kind Well, I mean, this is what be surprised to anyone. I got into an argument with someone on Twitter, right? Of course, that's the the nature of being on those mediums.

[00:42:02]Well, I I'd said I think it's conceivable this will be the last expensive game of its time. Uh if you think this has taken 13 years end to end of which and they said this publicly active development began in sort of late 2019 2020. So that's still six years of active development thousands of people working. You could debate the cost endlessly. It's almost certainly going to be the most expensive entertainment product of all time by by whichever way you argue the metrics right. It's phenomenal the cost involved. Then at the same time you've got people like the ex Rockstar technical director Obby Verme um who's been quite public about talking about his time at Rockstar which is going back to the sort of vice city San Andreas era but he's come out and said he thinks this will be like the last GTA to cost this much money and that's a a result of I guess those two things well one is games are too expensive to make is this sustainable which has been the forever question in games for >> the last dec decade right decade beyond And on the other hand, we're we're staring at a technology that everyone's talking about that in theory could make this thing easier, but people sort of a lot of people seem to hate it, and that's AI. Um, and but you know, I I think Strauss has talked about that really openly, and he did on the last earnings call where he said like AI's ability to speed up the asset generation process is huge. And he talked about some experiments they've done. In fact, he talked about it in the context of I think AB testing ads for some of the Zincer products, right?

[00:43:37]>> Yeah.

[00:43:37]>> AI AI is going to become or already is part of the workflows. And I think the reason you do that is because you ultimately believe that's going to make games a bit quicker and easier to make and then that might mean budgets drop by 10% 20% 50%. Dev cycles drop from 10 years to 9 years, 8 years, 5 years, right? I don't know any how true of any of that is. I'm not seeing a world where press X to create GTA 7. Like, not at all. And I think Strauss is really clear about that. But to have a project that's so uniquely long instation and so completely driven by such a volume of staff like a,000 plus,500 people, this could be the last of its type. I think it's not just talking about the money because I think GTL will always probably justify that maybe but I think I don't know if there's a desire to when I speak to game developers in their 50s saying I might be making my last game like what right and it's like so nobody wants to nobody wants to be making something for 10 years they want to they want to get it out there and and I know it's an online component and all that kind of stuff but I wouldn't be surprised >> if um even at Rockstar which make these sort of epic games that they might want to not take so long on the next GTN if that involve maybe AI allows them to do it cheaper. Maybe it's rescoping it, making, you know, maybe we can do smaller GTA, you know, maybe there's other things we can do. Maybe we can do So, I don't know whether it's Rockstar or not. I just don't know if we're going to see many of these sorts of games again. I think this is a once in a lifetime entertainment moment. I I think you could be right. And I think actually Dan Hower spoke about that with the Lex Ran show where he talked about ideas he had for games that he just knew they were going to never get to make. Uh, an example might be something like Agent that was announced with Sony, never came to fruition.

[00:45:20]>> I think he talked about, and I might be misremembering this, kind of like a almost like a Roman era game or like a sort of Viking era game. That feels like inconceivable for Rockstar to make in its current quadruple a plus model. But maybe maybe this changed.

[00:45:35]>> Yeah. Well, I agree with you. You know, let's see.

[00:45:37]>> Well, I'm out of time. I'm going to quickly run through some of these other Strauss sonic quotes because these aren't necessary related to GTA. I asked him about GTA online because it keeps doing better and better and better every quarter. Like GTA online has been our expectations is probably the most boring line I get. Do you want to just show take to call they say it every time. I asked him if he thinks GTA 6 will have a negative impact upon that. And his answer was I don't know where GTA online performance goes after the release of GTA 6. I have no reason to believe the performance will not continue. Um that I don't know suggests to me that he thinks it will go down.

[00:46:09]Um but uh he he talks about, you know, obviously it's done very well. He talked about the Safe House in the Hills expansion being their most successful one. I just think maybe for that quarter you're going to get a lot of people on GTA. I know I had Twitch on the show last, you know, and they have a lot of GTA roleplay. They see a lot of that and they do expect when GTA 6 launched, they do expect a drop in their in their engagement. I think T must expect that too. But hey, maybe it will just people go from GTA 6 to GTA online. What they've not talked about obviously is what GTA 6 means for the GTA online universe and whether there's >> like we call it on our show GTA 6 online. It might not even be that. It might be some different tier to GTA online but you can bet there's going to be an online component to GTA 6 which is almost certainly going to have an impact on players of GTA online. As we know, they're not going to stop GTA Online.

[00:47:01]Like, they kept GTA online running on PS3.

[00:47:04]And I might be again misremembering until something like 2019 2020.

[00:47:09]>> I didn't even know that was possible, but there's an audience, >> right? And so, yeah, he's you're right.

[00:47:15]In his codified way, I think he's saying >> kind of bets are off, right? Let's see.

[00:47:20]>> And to be fair, I think it would be temproing. I also had Red Dead Redemption 2 in the same light because Red Dead Redemption 2 just had its best ever year outside of it launch year.

[00:47:26]It's on 85 million units, which by the way is mad. Like we sit there cuz GTA V's done 230 million. It seems almost like a minnow, but like that's like 10 times Resident Evil, right? It's absolutely phenomenal sales performance for uh uh that game. It's ab bonkers.

[00:47:43]But I asked him if he if I thought Red Dead Redemption 2 was boosted by the hype behind GTA 6. He doesn't think so.

[00:47:49]Um, I think he said, "I do think Rockstar Games almost uniquely has a brand position in entertainment because consumers tend to be interested in all of their offerings, but no, I think this stands alone. What we're seeing with Red Dead Redemption 2 is that we have a very loyal, engaged audience, and they love the title. And by the way, I love the title. We're up to 85 million gamers."

[00:48:06]Um, is a which I can see why. Yeah. Not much to comment on. No, I I I would say with Rockstar Games, I think like their their brand is so strong that when GTA 6 is visible, Rockstar more visible. I think there's a degree of Halo effect.

[00:48:23]They're the one of the few publishers, I think, that can be said to be true in the same way where if HBO launch a new TV series, you go, "Oh, I should probably check it out or think about it." They're one of the few, I think, who add that true prestige mark to what they do.

[00:48:37]>> I think that's true, but I also think he's probably right. Red Dead Red Dead Red Dead Redemption 2's always done very very well and it just keeps doing so. I asked him some non GTA questions. I asked about 2K. This was a bit of a this was a bit of a hostile question for me and that um we talk about NBA 2K doing really well and their sports games do really well but 2K as a games label for me there's a lot of missteps there. We could talk about that project ethos is it project ephos games um they're working on which is which is keeps hitting problems. Bioshock is delayed and delayed and delayed. I specific examples I gave to Strauss was the Bordlands 4 PC launch. Civ 7 not hitting the mark. They got to go further back.

[00:49:14]The Lego game they did didn't do very well. Midnight Suns didn't do very well even though it was actually a great game. So I said to him like, you know, is he is he, you know, is he happy there? Has he had to get involved more?

[00:49:24]He actually gave a very strong defense to them. And I take responsibility for any missteps anywhere in our company.

[00:49:29]The responsibility is with me. That's my job. Borderlands 4 was highly successful. It will be a very profitable lifetime title. Civ 7 was very successful and it will be a very profitable lifetime title. Both did face some challenges in their initial release and those are being addressed. We have just released a very significant update 7 release updates for Bordance 4. There is more content coming for both games. I definitely can acknowledge missteps with both releases but at the same time it's a great franchise. It's great iterations and we couldn't be more thrilled of how the business is going broadly. I think 2K is crushing it across the board. If the worst you can say in a year where where you've had this kind of performance is that a couple of titles did slightly less well than we would have hoped and you're addressing whatever challenges you face and you're still generating profits with both titles, that's a high class problem.

[00:50:09]I'll take those problems any day of the week. He obviously is obviously talking about the last financial year and specifically 7 and Borderlands 4. I don't know. I I I I looked at um I look at some of the how long some of these games have been, you know, Bioshock's been absent from the industry for longer than GTA has in terms of new releases.

[00:50:27]Um and it it it it feels um it yeah it feels I did actually ask him about games taking a long time and again he issued a defense there and I he said I wouldn't confuse long development cycles with a laxidasical approach to development cycles. Everything we do is in the context of milestones, budgets and delivery dates certain titles are so complex and so challenging to build they take a long time. It is possible that recent developments in technology and he's talking about AI here will allow us to compress some development timelines without compromising quality and we will hope to do that. But everything that we do here is thought out and reasoned. We don't just wait to hear how things are going. We make choices about how we're going to develop in the context of what our creative teams are trying to achieve and what we believe the market demands in terms of quality in order to deliver a hit. And this is something he said a lot. We're in the business of making hits. Everything we do is in the service of trying to make a hit.

[00:51:13]>> Yeah, I think you could look at that two ways. I think like one of the framings would be probably as stra would look at is actually they their last financial year that they've just reported on and closed was up 19% year on year which is staggering right staggering and that's a non GTA for context they are only and I use massive air quotes here only anticipating to be 19% up year on year in the GTA 6 year now that's not exactly a like for like but that shows you the level of performance and how well a game like NBA has done with the current revenues. But I would I could also see an argument where you would say could the Borderlands launch have gone better.

[00:51:54]Could Siv 7 have gone better?

[00:51:56]>> I think there's a lot of people in the industry who say it could have done and it's not for me to speculate on where they go next. Well, yeah, they almost skipped a generation 2K. There's almost a period of time they didn't release very much at all in that. And then and I do I think Borderlands 4 was was good and I think he's right. it'll it'll do well in the fullness of time and and um and those sort of things. I just I look at things like Thoraxis and it's like at one point they were far on all cylinders and Civ 7's a good game but it wasn't quite what fans wanted.

[00:52:25]Mel's Midnight Suns was was fantastic, but nobody seemed to want it. And I think, well, that's a miss. Who, you know, and that's not Furaxis's fault.

[00:52:33]That's that's whoever was commissioning these and greenlighting these and Borderland Bioshock taking 13 years plus. Um, Judas as well, not I know that's not 2K. We haven't remember remember that uh Ken Lavine um was doing this to make games faster.

[00:52:51]But anyway, um those were all my Strauss quotes and we're here mostly to talk about GTA, but um Dan, I've supposed to be quick. I'm so sorry. Um you've got an important things to do. You've got your uh you've got your massive event on June 6th to do. Um Dan, how can people follow GTA 6 o'clock?

[00:53:06]>> So, you can check us out every uh we launch a new show every Wednesday at uh GTA 6 p.m. BST. So check that out on our YouTube channel. Uh you can also subscribe to the GTA 6:00 newsletter which is via gamesraar.com/newsletter and click on the follow GTA newsletter which comes out every Friday at GTA 6 p.m. BST. Can you see I've rehearsed that? Yeah. So very good. Thank you Dan.

[00:53:33]And thank you to everybody watching from home. Um, if you want to make sure you catch more news, analysis, inside interviews at the game business, just go to the gamebus.com, subscribe to our newsletter, and you'll receive an update every time we put out a new episode. We will be back next week with a big interview with Embracer, plus our preview of Summer Game Fest. Until then, though, thank you for tuning in.