The debate highlights the fundamental tension between literalist hermeneutics and philosophical abstraction in divine ontology. However, the sensationalist framing risks reducing a complex theological inquiry into a mere performative spectacle.
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Ali Dawah's Worst Nightmare Comes True! (GodLogic in London!)Added:
Tick tock, time to rock. Good evening, good morning, good afternoon to everyone who's watching from all over the world.
Your friendly neighborhood philosopher here, Dwood Wood with me. Got your uh not so friendly theologian and Bible nerd. Uh Anthony Rogers. How you doing, Anthony?
>> I'm doing good. I was doing really good and then I got interrupted by you.
>> Oh yeah.
>> Reading.
>> Yeah. I messaged you like half it was like half 30 40 minutes ago, right? I was like, "Hey, hey, this is this is one of your topics, man."
>> Yeah. I was over there having fun reading. My wife was taking a nap. I had uh afternoon time to read, so that was fun.
Book came in the mail. I didn't know books came in the mail on Sundays.
So, um Oh, yeah. Yeah. Progress, man. That's progress. Anyway, guys, um God Logic God Logic uh showed up in the comments in the chat yesterday and pointed out that he managed to find Ali Dawa in London.
and uh they had a they had an interesting discussion, but this is a topic that me and Anthony did multiple live streams on. My goodness, had to be like five or six years ago, but um we were mainly pointing out and you were you going through the uh Muslim sources about Allah and pointing out that Allah has actual body parts. They're not not all Muslims interpret interpret it that way, but uh your Salafi types and um lots of other Muslim groups do and there are reasons. We'll talk about those reasons. Um and so uh yeah, we we were talking about this several years ago because it's something that, you know, your average revert in the West has no clue about, right? They tell, "Hey, the Trinity is so confusing. Just just believe in." And then you find out that Allah is like this weird physical being with all these body parts and uh uh was it Muy Abu? You guys are describing a gremlin, man. You guys are describing a gremlin um the way they describe him.
But uh yeah, now so uh in this in this debate we're about to watch, turns out that um Ali Dawa found out uh oh that in the Bible God is described as having his having his outstretched arm and things like that. And Ali's Ali Dawa's mind was blown at the hypocrisy of Christians on this issue. Here we are criticizing Allah for actually being a physical um being and yet God right there in the Bible said to have his outstretched arm.
You ready to be a you ready to be exposed as a hypocrite. Anthony well I'm ready for something. It's not going to be that. But, uh, >> it's pretty interesting that Ali Dawa has been doing all this DA all these years and he he's like just finding out things new about the Bible right now.
Um, yeah. So, we will uh we will unpack we'll unpack everything for you guys.
We'll uh check out this clip and Ali Dawa is going to look pretty pretty dumb. Pretty dumb.
Um, all right. We ready to jump into this, Anthony? We are.
>> Go ahead and talk. Your mic seems a little just slightly lower than mine. Or you could just >> One, two, one, two. How do I sound to you? Okay.
>> One, two, one, two.
I don't see. Let's see. Huh.
I was looking to see if there's an adjustment thing on my end, but I don't see that.
>> No. Go up to your regular settings. If you were on Streamyard recently, sometimes Streamyard lowers the just your output volume.
>> Okay.
So, >> so go click on the little apple. There's a little apple. And then you click on system settings.
>> Click on system settings. Then you go down to sound and you see where sound is.
>> Okay.
>> And then you're on output or no input.
And then you look at whatever mic you're using and you check the input volume.
>> Okay. So the input level uh okay and oh the output should be this. Wait, can you hear me?
>> Input volume man input.
>> Your output would be like your headphones and stuff.
>> Um you know what I think is happening? I think it's using my headphones. Uh, no, no, it it sounds good. It's just a little It's just slightly quiet. Go ahead and tap your microphone.
>> Yeah, that's picking up through that.
It's just a little quiet. So, I was wondering if your in if your input was all the way up.
>> Okay. What? How's that? Is that better?
>> Let me see. Go ahead. Talk.
>> How about that? One, two, one, two. One, two, one, two.
Okay. And >> maybe just have the mic a little closer to your dumb face or talk a little louder.
>> Okay.
Okay, good. You're good. All right, we ready, guys? We're gonna check out the >> I see several people in the chat think I'm Muhammad Hijab. Somebody says, "Is Anthony drunk?"
I don't know if they're kidding or if they think I'm Muhammad Hijab.
>> Yeah. What are you doing drunk at 5:00 p.m. on a on a Sunday, man?
>> Lay off the lay off the stuff, man.
Well, you said we're going to watch Ali Dawa. So, I thought, >> yeah, you got >> this is how Muhammad hijab listens to Ali Dawa.
>> Or or you just need about eight shots of something before watching Ali Dawa.
Probably makes it way funnier.
Can you imagine that? Uh, let's take these first couple super chats and jump in on time as always. Yep, we are. Uh, hey, we got the new Nordine demons.
Funny. Uh, late again. Forgive me for it cuz I'm late again till the day I die.
Lord knows I try but I'm still late again. Uh don't know that one.
Hey, we have this R. You made me Who's R? Rogers. Rogers.
Oh, >> you made me realize God can't have eternal body.
>> What are you talking about? Allah does.
It's not very good-looking, but uh what's Anony's opinion on Yuj and Machuj demons.
It's an inside joke here. I just had to finally block someone for always change trying to change the subject to demons.
One way is live combined streams, not in the zoot.
Oh, Chris Claus. Let's see. Spirits get spirits. We're talking about Hey, this is all about spirits. So, um that's what Avery and um Ali Dawa are talking about. Um that's what Nordine always wants to talk about and that's what Anthony is drinking.
Familiar with certain philosophers arguing that God desired the fall for goods like redemption in response to the problem of evil akin to Allah desiring sin.
familiar with certain philosophers arguing God desired the fall for goods like redemption and I mean yeah people people have argued that uh let's see missed the last stream heard DA has become woke and feminized did Kathleen Kennedy take over yes uh uh you probably haven't been following Anthony but women are now taking over DA and they can't be controlled and it's awesome look yeah look at my PFP closely yes we did man we saw it not blind think I'm blind saw that soon I mean, when I saw when I saw just the super tiny version, I just thought it was a uh I thought you were a Muslim, but then when I uh pulled pulled it up.
Yes, we are familiar with your shameful cry for attention. All right, Anthony, you ready to check this out?
>> Let's do it.
>> Prepare to have your mind blown out the back of your skull by Ali Dawa's powerful da. So guys, last year um Avery and uh Ali Dawa had couple discussion. Well, they had a discussion, but they covered a couple topics on the street. And then Ali Dawa showed up at Speaker's Corner the next day with the shape sorder. He brought a shape sorder um that he probably had to uh borrow from his uh his uh wife and um and uh and it was one of the greatest massacres in debate history. Well, Avery is in London and he went and tracked down Ali Dawa yesterday as Ali Dawa was trying to sell his prayer mats yet again. So, we're going to check it out. Here we go.
Avery walking through London streets like Michael Myers.
>> Killing me with that big old backpacking.
>> I know. That thing is >> every time I go somewhere, I'm trying to offload. Trying to get rid of stuff. I don't want anything on me.
>> I'm thinking it's cuz the camera angle cuz the camera's right behind it. It probably makes I mean it's obviously a big backpack, but I'm guessing it's like exaggerated by the camera being right and right right there. All right, so hey, look at this. I noticed this when I was checking this out yesterday. Look where Ali Dawa sets up, man. He sets up Dawa shop right in front of this cabaret sign.
And I don't know, I'm not familiar with that show. Um, but I don't know if that's a if that's a a woman or a guy in drag or something cuz I don't know what they're watching over there. But um, yeah, but that's where Ali Dawa decided to set up his DA booth and uh, put out his prayer mats. But >> see what is that? So that's Cabaret.
That's Cabaret. And yeah, I don't know.
I don't know the story. I don't know the story. But uh, you see Ali Dawa there?
He's ready to give a dawa. And uh it's cool because Ali Dawa's shake is there.
His uh his shake. The man who has guided Ali Dawa to all the knowledge he has accumulated.
Took about 8 seconds. But uh let's see.
>> I just my brother.
>> He said, "Oi, the UK."
>> I was just visiting.
>> Is it?
>> Yes.
>> Good. Full of surprises.
>> Thank you.
>> Yes. Was another surprise. Yes, I want to talk to you.
>> Is it is it triangle too?
>> We could do We could do triangle square.
We could do uh uh circles and perpendiculars. We could do it all.
>> He said circles and perpendicular.
>> Yeah. We're going to go back to the argument.
>> Yes.
>> And we're going to see if you still believe.
>> Well, I I want to know I want to know what you I want to know what you believe about the Quran, man.
>> Yeah. Uh right here at the beginning, you kind of can't hear Ali Dawa because he's like uh 10t away. But um eventually Ali Dava stands up and that's when you can hear them. We We want to talk about We want to talk about who God is.
>> I That's true. That's what I want to talk to you about.
>> You want to talk about who got it?
>> I know. I want to talk about Tahed.
>> I'm just doing a video. Once I release it, then I will >> Well, you you're busy right now.
>> I am. I'm doing a >> You can't take a take take a little second.
>> No, you got to give me >> Ali Dawa saying he's too busy. This is Ali Dawa saying you want to talk about talk about God's body. That's what it sounded like. Um which is interesting if he's the one who wanted to talk about this. And Avery says he wants to talk about and so those are those are connected. But uh yeah, then Ali Dawa is saying he's busy. He's working on a thumbnail for his video. You have God Logic show up at your DA booth. Instant instant huge huge number of views. And you're like, "No, I was working on I was working on my thumbnail for my new video." Yeah. Come on.
>> About 5 10 minutes.
>> 510.
>> Because look, I need to >> That's fair enough. Look look.
Can a can a woman can women give dawa?
>> Yes.
>> Okay, that's a good top. That's a hot topic right now.
>> He's my brother. I love him.
>> Look at that. He even has a typo on it.
Can woman give da ali da. You need to it it needs to either be can a woman give da or can women be give da not can woman give da unless you're just talking about like woman like the nature of woman. Can woman give nature like can man do this?
Interesting. But yeah.
I'm going to rub it into >> they can't really hear you cuz the the microphone.
>> They don't need to say anything.
>> Okay.
I do the thumbnail.
>> So he's saying he's he's saying that you know Muslim is a brother of his but he made a mistake. Is that right?
>> No, he didn't make a mistake. He has a bad >> Okay.
>> So So just to be clear, is he saying that it is okay for women to go and do da'ah?
>> And he believes they can't.
>> I believe they can.
>> So you guys disagree?
>> Yeah. We disagree, but we don't disagree on who God is. Yeah, I bet you do.
Okay. So, Anthony, you probably haven't been following the latest DA drama, but you have these um >> this new generation of young tick- tock Muslim girls giving da but they're like debating like guys and then it's a question of and you have all these objections like um one are women even allowed to be uh giving da um are they allowed to do that sort of thing on social media where people can hear their voices and so on. are they allowed to be interacting with non-Muslim men in these discussions? Uh then you have objections to how they behave. They're like pretty uh pretty foul-mouthed. Um sometimes they give Sam a run for his money. Um, so you have all these all these kinds of issues and then um like the added issue of the example that they're setting for the younger generation of Muslim girls who were on TikTok and they're watching these uh Muslim ladies give da and you have these shakes and Muslim leaders. Even the Grand Mufty of Saudi Arabia said women can't be doing this. And the women on the Tik Tok Dawa girls are like you can't tell us what to do. And so they think this is this is uh setting a really really bad example and it's going to ruin their control. So you had Muslim lantern. He jumps in there and says no, these women shouldn't be doing this. And uh then you have Ali Daw and Muhammad Hijab saying, "No, it's very good. We want them. They have to go and recruit other women cuz revert revert sisters take it best."
It's a that's an actual quote from Muhammad Ajab. Revert sisters take it best. Um >> I do remember hearing Shik Asam comment on this. I forgot the term that he used, but it was something to the effect of they're crossing some kind of feminine barrier or he was talking about, you know, the veil obviously screens off the appearance, but when they're talking, they're also somehow transgressing the intent behind this sort of thing. He used some term.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He even Yeah. It was almost like the like the the spirit of the ruling. Um Yeah. I forget what he said too. Yeah, I saw that. Um but yeah, so it was uh >> yeah, you you're technically wearing the nikab, but you're you're it's like you're missing the point of the nab um by how you're acting and so on. So anyway, yeah, there's uh there's da wars erupting over this. People are taking sides and uh Ali Dawa Ali Dawa just said, "Okay, we may disagree on this year, but we don't disagree on Allah."
He's acting like they don't disagree on Allah.
In fact, speaking of veils, according to the Islamic sources, Allah is screened off by a veil and and he should be >> Allah wears a nikab.
>> Yeah. And he should because um as we found out from these Tik Tok uh Muslims, Allah can actually well Allah can actually be described as mother. Can be called mother because uh he could be described that way metaphorically. He could be described metaphorically according to the Bible um that way but father got abrogated with the Quran and therefore Allah can only be described as mother and that's why he has to go around wearing a uh a lovely uh lovely nikab.
>> All right let's see come on stand up like a man Alidawa >> I bet you you do if I asked you who if I asked you who was and I asked him y'all would give different answers. I bet you see the difference between us you would you would have a ideology about theology. Yes, you define theology in the sense where is God Jesus the son of God is how many essence how many persons >> yeah you you guys will disagree about his you see how many essences >> in Islam there's one Allah the prophet is the final messenger the Quran is the final messenger >> that's not true at all >> it depends on it depends it depends on what Muslim you ask >> eternally generated yes is he the only true >> it depends on what Muslim you ask know he doesn't know >> cuz and some some Muslims some Muslims Allah is above the throne Other Muslims he's on the throne. Other Muslims he's around the throne.
>> Who Allah is the definition who Allah look >> you don't know who he is.
>> You Some of you guys think he's like the dal. Some of you guys don't think he's like the dal. Guys, catch that right there. He said you don't know who Allah is. You don't know who Allah is. That sounds like that sounds like he's just, you know, tossing tossing out an insult.
By the end of this, it's been fully proven. Ali Dawa can't say whether Allah is spirit, whether he's physical, and just you have no idea what Allah is. You can't even say it. And uh so anyway, he said it here at the beginning and then uh and then it gets amply proven like for example, you you you think that Muslims won't give be confused about Allah with the >> I'm doing a thumbnail and debating. To me, that's good. To me, it shows how unimportant he is. I'm doing a funk.
>> It's so It's so important I'm doing a fundraiser about making a video about can women do da I don't debate.
>> No, not notice. This is a question.
It's about can women do da That's what they're debating about. They don't know.
Can women spread the truth? And in Islam, it's a question >> when it comes to we have been not with them. Is he the son of God? Is he a part of God? Islam are questioning whether women can go out and spread the truth. In Christianity, you can go OUT AND PREACH.
>> I AM ONE OF THOSE WOMEN.
>> There we go.
>> Surah 364 says, "The deceiver and Allah deceiver is >> the best of deceivers." Wow.
>> I am one of those women. See, this is one of these women that can go out and spread the truth.
>> Jesus Christ. And as long they want you to shut up.
Go and ask your god.
>> Go and ask him.
>> He can't hear them.
>> What did he look like?
>> Don't believe me.
>> That guy can't that that image is is killing me. So you've got Ali Dawa and his shake sitting there and then back of them almost like them projected onto the screen, you know, a couple of women with uh mouths wide open. I I don't know. Is that uh supposed to be their their shadow cast on the screen or is it supposed to present a contrast between their view of women? They're supposed to shut up, but there's these women right behind them like they're laughing at them or something.
>> Yeah. Or or maybe it is maybe maybe Alidawa is like, "Yo, yo, we got to support the women and all talking and stuff and uh giving the presentation so let's go set up in front of the cabaret sign so they know we support them."
Something like that. Um but h wow this is uh this this is funny. The lady the Christian lady said go ask your god and Avery said he can't hear him. He can't they can't he can't hear them right.
Allah has to travel down like if he said it right now if it's not if it's not Allah's time for coming down and listening to your prayers he can't hear you. out for yourself. PRAY TO YOUR GOD AND ASK him what is THE TRUTH.
>> THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING. I'M not here to read you.
>> Well, we can tell you what he doesn't have. He doesn't have two right hands.
He doesn't have a foot that's in hell.
He doesn't have a face. He doesn't have woolly hair. He doesn't have uh uh more than one eye. He He has described God.
We can do We can tell you what he's not like.
>> We can tell you what he's not like.
Does your foot have a head?
>> Huh? Does your foot have a head?
>> In what? In what sense?
>> Your foot. Does he have >> Does he have what?
>> Your hands.
>> What? In what way?
>> Well, give me one way. Look at >> ARE YOU ARE YOU ASKING HIS ARE you asking about his incarnation?
>> Brother, I'm trying to talk to you.
>> Realize I'm about to read the Bible.
>> Hey, brother. I'm trying to talk to you.
Are you asking about his incarnation?
>> Are you asking about his incarnation?
>> Yeah. Are you asking Oh, the father. The father. Yeah. The father doesn't have hands. No. No, he does not. He's immaterial. All right. Now, let me ask you now. Does your God have hands?
>> He has. He has hands. Does he Does he have a foot?
>> He has a shin.
>> HE HAS A SHIN.
>> You hear this, guys? Because when we say this, when we say, "Hey, no, they believe Allah actually has hands and a shin and so on." People like, "No, that's not. No, just you can't just This is just metaphorical." Look, he he's asking him right here. Hey, does does Allah have a shin? Yes, Allah has a shin. Does Allah have hands? Yes, Allah has hands.
They mean actual body parts, guys.
Actual body parts. They'll qualify and say, "Well, you know, we we don't we don't understand how. We don't know what it's like. You shouldn't try to picture it in your mind, but yes, he has actual body parts.
HE LOOK POINT THE CAMERA AT ME." WHAT HE DID? HE SAID, "That point, everybody." He said, "He has a shin."
>> He has a shin.
>> So, your god sounds like me.
Your gun sounds like me.
>> Oh, he's he's using uh who's the guy that >> Elijah Elijah Johnson.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah, that was a that was an awesome sick burn from Elijah. Uh I just wanted to go back and see if this guy actually pointed to his shin because I missed it.
Hang on, guys. Let's see if he actually pointed to his >> He doesn't have uh more than one eye. He He has described God. We could do We're going to tell you what he's not like.
>> Human.
>> We can tell you what he's not like.
Does your foot have a hand?
>> Huh? Does your foot have a hand?
>> In what? In what sense?
>> God. Your God. Does he >> Does he have what?
>> Your hands.
>> What? In what way?
>> WELL, GIVE ME THE RIGHT WAY. LOOK AT >> ARE YOU ARE YOU ASKING his Are you asking about his incarnation?
>> Brother, I'm trying to talk to you.
>> Hey, brother. I'm trying to talk to you.
Are you asking about his incarnation?
Are you asking about his incarnation?
>> Yeah. Are you asking the father? The father? Yeah. The father doesn't have hands. No. No, he does not. He's immaterial. All right. Now, let me ask you now. Does your God have hands?
>> He has.
>> He has. Does he Does he have a foot?
>> He has a shin.
>> HE HAS A SHIN.
>> OH, the camera wasn't put together.
We'll have to get a different camera angle.
>> Point the camera at me.
>> Well, more more relevant is when you look at the hadiths, Muhammad when he narrates or gives a tradition, he does use hand gestures and facial gestures. And according to the science of hadith, these gestures themselves are significant. So for example, when he talks about Allah having an eye, according to certain narrations, he points at his own eye while doing that. So even if the shakes's not doing it, Muhammad did in which case >> sounds like Muhammad takes it quite literally.
>> Absolutely. So, uh, yeah. So, Avery's pointing out that the shake when he's pointing out what Allah has, he he has a shin and points to his shin. This is relevant. This is And then Anony's pointing out the I and Muhammad. Um, this is relevant because Ali Dawa is going to insist that Allah is not like us. And then Avery's going to be like, what do you He's like us in certain ways. He's obviously like us. Um, but let's check it out.
>> That's what he said. He has a shin.
>> He has a shin.
>> So your god sounds like me.
>> Your guy sounds like me.
>> Now we're going to see. He said he was God. This God doesn't have a hand yet.
>> Allah subhana wa tala sounds like me.
>> He said he said he said his god the father does not have a hand. Don't forget he doesn't he doesn't have no physical.
>> He doesn't have body.
And guess what? So come talk to me.
>> I'm going to come with the intellectual right hand.
>> My own brother.
the right.
>> No, no, he came here.
>> Hey, how about this? How about the video? How about he wait?
>> He didn't upload the video.
>> How about your partner? Wait.
>> Now you come in. You're going to get married.
>> He said we didn't upload the video.
>> What are you talking about?
>> I'm nearly done.
>> It's up there. It got like 300,000 views.
>> No. No. When he came to my table, he got ripped. You didn't put that.
>> So, why is the video on the channel?
>> And the one that's corner triangle.
>> Both of them are both >> They're both up. What are you talking about?
>> You hear this? Ali Dal was saying that Avery took down the videos or didn't post the videos or something like this.
He's going, "What are you talking about?
They're both on my channel. This is weird."
>> The other one we done.
>> Yes. The The one we did in Picadill is up. What are you talking about?
>> Okay. I haven't seen He said that.
That's my mistake.
>> Yeah.
>> We did.
>> We'll give you time.
>> 17. Are you guys ready to >> What's your question? You ask whatever you want, bro.
>> Thumbnail. Adam.
>> Come on, man. You got your THUMBNAIL READY. SOVEREIGN LORD, you have made the earth.
>> He's not going to let me speak.
>> No. No. Go ahead.
>> Jesus.
>> Our sovereign Lord, you have made the heaven by your grace. Look, look, LOOK, LOOK. HIS FOLLOWERS ARE NOT letting it happen. They know what's about to come.
>> Can you read? Can you keep reading? Keep reading. You got you, bro. Keep reading.
>> You got to get yourself, brother.
>> Keep going, bro. Keep going.
>> Ah, sovereign Lord. Sovereign Lord, you have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and outstretched arm.
>> Oh, so I just told you what that is.
HUH?
>> OUTSTRETCHED ARM.
>> OH, so God's power is his outstretched ARM. AMAZING. GOD, >> YOUR FATHER doesn't go.
>> What did he say?
>> No, he doesn't. Not a real not an arm like Allah. Not like two ARMS LIKE ALLAH GOT.
>> HOW IS IT? How is your God's arm?
>> It's his power. His power.
>> Yes.
>> You clean enough.
>> You see this shake? He uh he perked up quite a bit. He got happy. He's got he's got us, man. He thinks he's got us. Um so he's not like the Muslims who would say, "No, Allah doesn't have body parts." He's of course Allah has body parts. But he found out Anthony that there are passages in the Bible and they just use right here uh his outstretched arm. But you know, you could you could actually matter of fact, you could actually help them right now. Um, what kind of des what kind of descriptions do we have of of God along these lines?
>> Oh man, the number of things of this sort is off the charts really. Sometimes it's it's not even brought out into English as forcefully because it's recognized that these are Hebrew idioms.
The overwhelming majority of these occur in poetic sections like the Psalms or even he's quoting Isaiah and Jeremiah here. The two texts he quoted are from those two prophets. Anybody opening their Bibles can see that there's a difference in the way the words are on the page when you look at the prophets than how they are in say the book of Kings. In the book of Kings, you have large paragraphs. When you look at the prophets, it's usually organized in a way that indicates poetry. So the prophets often spoke in ways that are more akin to poetic speech than pros narrative or something like that. Right?
So this is where you get the vast majority of these terms. Even when you look in a book that is otherwise narratival like the book of Exodus where it makes mention of God's arm.
Interestingly enough it's in a section where it's talking in a poetic way.
Right? So the first instance of this is in the song of the sea in Exodus 15 after they come out of Egypt and it mentions that God saved them by his right hand. Now, in that same text, it says that God congealed Pharaoh and his armies in the sea at the blast of his nostrils. That's what the literal Hebrew says. Now, if you're being a crude anthropomorphice, then you'd say, "Oh, then he's got two large nostrils. So large that he caused the the the the Red Sea to collapse upon Pharaoh and his armies." But again, this is poetic. the very genre of the place where it's found is is poetry. Now, that's not to say you can't find these idioms outside of that, but they're largely concentrated here.
And the whole point is people would easily recognize whenever somebody has picked up this kind of idiom even in in a narrative section. And so here, and this is a and I just I remember this from when we were having these discussions years ago. people kind of didn't understand like they're e even non-Muslims were going wait a minute if you're going to say these things can be metaphorical um then why are you insisting that Allah has actual body parts when you could simply interpret those as metaphorical and that's when you would point out that hey this isn't this isn't simply us saying oh yeah it talks about Allah's hands there haha Allah as hands. Oh, but what about what about God in the Bible?
Talk it talks about his outstretched arm. What's going on there? You hypocrites. And they don't understand um it's Muslim scholars pointing out that there's something different about the descriptions of Allah's body parts, which compels them to say he's talking about actual body parts. And some of these can't be simply metaphorical. They have they have to be referring to actual body parts. So um >> yeah so >> what's the idea there?
>> Yeah. So I usually point out to people that in terms of how I came to think of these things before seeing this sort of stuff in Muslim scholars and and not just contemporary Salafies but all the way back to the time of Muhammad. But I was familiar with the Bible when I first picked up the Quran. I wanted to engage Muslims. So I wanted to know what they believed and I started reading the Quran and my assumption was that the points of difference would be on things like the Trinity and the identity and work of Christ and and that that was all true that there are obviously differences there but I assumed that some of the more general things like God's nature and attributes would be points of commonality. So when I initially started reading the Quran and ran across passages that make reference to some body part, I assumed initially that these were just figures of speech like they are in the Bible. The problem that I eventually encountered though was that there were certain passages that didn't make sense if it was only metaphorical.
and and so to give a a point of contrast. So in Psalm 19 it says, "The heavens declare the glory of God and the skies proclaimed the work of his hands."
That's a poetic text. As I read that as a Christian, it didn't even dawn on me that it meant God literally had hands.
Neither has that been the case for other people in history. It's just not at all really. I'm not saying there have never there have never been any anthropomorphice in Christian history, but it has almost never been a a significant group of people just some fringe loon or what have you. Uh but as I'm reading the Quran, I kept coming across the story of Allah telling the angels to prostrate to Adam. And I always, you know, I'm thinking to myself, what's going on here? The story keeps getting retold. What's why is Allah telling people to bow down to him?
What's the problem with somebody not doing it? How does this make sense in light of the Quran's otherwise strident denunciations of bowing down to anyone other than Allah? This all looks inconsistent. There's all these issues swirling about. And then I got to surah 3875.
In in surah 3875, Allah rebuked Satan because having commanded the angels to prostrate to Adam, which by the way, this is one of the many lines of evidence showing that Satan is an angel in the Islamic sources. It's common for them to say he's not an angel, but there are other things that point in this direction as well. What what the actual view is is that he belongs to a group of angels that is distinguished from other groups but he is an angel. In any case, Allah commands the angels to prostrate.
Satan refuses. So Allah rebukes him. And then he says, "Why did you refuse to bow down to the one that I made with my hands?" Now the Arabic is actually more emphatic here than some translations. It it says my two hands. So it's it's specifying the two hands of Allah and saying that Satan should have bowed down to Adam because he was made with Allah's two hands. So if you think this through, if this is the reason for it, then it can't be the case that it is just referring to Allah's power metaphorically because in that case everything would then be an object of prostration.
Allah made everything with his power according to the Quran. Right? Whatever you want to say is the mechanism of that, it's Allah's power that made everything. So if his two hands are just a metaphor for his power, then Satan and the angels should bow down to the sun because it was made with Allah's two hands, to the moon because it was made with Allah's two hands. It's only if these two hands mean something different than power that it actually makes sense here. It has to be singling out Adam from everything else as that which Allah made with his two hands. So when you go through the Islamic sources, there are narrations where it says that Allah only made three things with his two hands or four things. There's some discrepancy.
Muslims will try and ease the tension here in one way or another. They'll sometimes just say one only mentions three and the other gives it the fourth.
But in any case, there there are numerous narrations where it mentions Allah doing three things directly with his own hands or four. One is planting the trees of the garden of Eden with his own hands. Another is uh writing the Torah for Moses. There are even statements where it says that Moses could hear the screech of the quill while Allah was writing the Torah and leaning back against a rock. So Allah sitting there with his pen and pad and he's he's writing away and and Moses overheard the noise. Uh then uh some sources will talk about Allah creating the pen with his two hands or the throne or something like that. And but then the fourth or third depending which narration is Adam. Adam was created with Allah's two hands. And then once you notice that, every all sorts of other things begin leaping out at you. There's there's narration after narration connecting Allah's hands with Adam.
There's the hadith of intercession where they're looking for special people to intercede with Allah for them on the day of judgment. As they're awaiting the judgment, they go to numerous prophets saying, "Can you do this? You're special to Allah because you, Abraham, were the friend of Allah. You, Jesus, were the word of Allah. you Moses spoke to Allah directly. You know, there are all these things that are being mentioned in connection with these prophets as to why they're a possib possibly able to intercede with Allah. The reason they go to Adam is because he was created with Allah's two hands. According to another narration, it it mentions that Moses and Adam both got into an argument. And and Moses uh said to Adam, he says when he first sees him allegedly in paradise, "Are you that Adam that got all of us kicked out of the garden even though Allah created you with his own two hands?" And then Adam, it says, got the better of Moses because he said, "Are you that Moses to whom Allah gave the Torah that he wrote with his own two hands?" And uh so you knew that in in the Torah had already been written that I was going to do this because the the assumption is the Torah exists before Adam did and so forth. But notice what's going on here. They're both arguing with one another and underlying the whole argument is this connection to Allah's two hands. Then you have the the the statement in Surah 7 where Allah stroked Adam's back to get his progeny out of it. remember the the famous uh story, it's filled out in the hadith where Allah gets all all the the the seed of Adam out of him. That's us before we were ever born and causes us to stand before him and acknowledge that he's the only true God. And then he puts us all back into Adam. Now, the the the bonus question here for people is why does Allah stroke Adam's back in order to get out all of the his seed? Well, it's because Allah's wonderful understanding of how things work in the human body. He thinks semen proceeds from between the backbone and the ribs.
But the point here is Allah stroked Adam's back with his right hand according to the hadith. Uh there are other hadith where it says Allah put his palm between Muhammad's shoulder blades and he could feel its coolness in his chest which also shows by the way that at least in this instance Allah's hand was small enough to fit between Muhammad's shoulder blades. Apparently it can morph and get bigger and smaller like like the genie in Aladdin's lamp.
Uh remember the line in the cartoon where he said infinite cosmic power in itty bitty living space. So Allah is kind of like Aladdin's genie. He can blow up really large or get really small. But again, notice the pattern.
The the way these hadiths and these Quranic verses are working presupposes that these hands are actual hands. And there's a whole slew of other stuff here that that we could go on about and perhaps we'll also bring up. But so the point is the Islamic sources aren't like the Bible. They they are treating these things very literally. Now there's there's one other thing I would throw in here with respect to the Bible. I I would point out that there uh it's not sufficient though to say that the Bible is merely using the phrase arm or hand in a metaphorical way to refer to God's power and say that does full justice to it. Because as you trace out the language here, it becomes evident that God's arm is a way of referring to a distinct divine person, namely the Messiah. It's no accident that Paul in the New Testament refers to Christ as the power of God. Uh throughout the Old Testament, God's hand is personified. So for example, in Isaiah 48, uh which is what uh Ali Dawa was quoting, he says, "My hand founded the earth." And in Jeremiah, it says that God's outstretched arm uh did these things.
But as you go through uh the prophets, it becomes evident that they're thinking of God's arm as a hypostasis. Right? So here here just here a couple of passages along these lines. Psalm 89 it says you scattered your enemies with your mighty arm. And then uh elsewhere in the Psalms referring back to that it says the right hand of the Lord did valiantly.
This is already uh you know suggestive.
It seems to be personifying God's arm.
Well, as you go through Isaiah, it gets really pronounced. So, in Isaiah 30, it says, "The Lord will cause his voice of authority to be heard and his arm will be seen to descend among them in fierce anger."
Isaiah 40 in a context where it says that that God is looking upon the earth for somebody who's righteous who can interpose himself between God and his sinful people. It it says that God looks and he sees no one. And then God says this or the the prophet says this, "The Lord God will come with might and his own arm will rule for him." So notice how here it's it's talking about God's arm, but his arm is going to rule in his place as it were. It it's going to do what nobody else could do. He couldn't find anyone worthy to do this. A as you move through Isaiah, it gets even even clearer. So Isaiah 52, I'll just I'll I could keep going with this, but I'll I'll make this the the last example of this. In Isaiah 52, the prophet says, "Awake, awake, O arm of the Lord."
Where is he who delivered them from the sea? But he's he's addressing directly God's arm. And he's saying, "Come and do for your people what you did in the past. Come and deliver us, O arm of the Lord, like you did at the sea." If you keep going in the context, Isaiah then says in 53:1, "Who has believed our report and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? For he grew up before him like a tender chute and like a root out of dry ground. He has no form or commonliness that we should desire him and so forth." Now what everybody should be seeing here is that the prophet Isaiah who has been talking about God's arm as a person here now identifies the arm of the Lord as the Messiah. It says who has believed our report and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? For he the the antecedent is the arm of the Lord. He grew up before him like a tender chute and like a root out of dry ground and so forth. Now this isn't just a Christian spin on these things. I could quote Jewish sources that take these things this way as well. They they see God's arm as a way of referring to that second power that's so ubiquitous in second temple sources. So Ali Dawa is really jumping out of the frying pan into the fire by bringing up God's outstretched arm. He's listening to bad counsel from his uninformed shake.
And that's what's interesting is the the shake seems just as dumb as Ali Dawa as far as not really being able to think uh through these things. So um yeah guys, you got uh Anthony took you through um a bunch of the big issues uh if you like simple very simple takeaway as far as as far as this as far as this issue is concerned about whether you're talking about the Quran or the Bible or whatever. Very common very it would be very common for people back in the day to describe um God looking out with his eyes or something like that. And you could of course interpret it as oh that's saying God has eyes or it's it's a metaphor for because you know we that that's how we think of as seeing and so on. So um normally and Avery's going to make Avery's going to make his argument for why this interpretation is required.
You're required to you're biblically you're required to not to not think that this is referring to literal eyes or a literal outstretched arm. He's going to explain why that is. Anthony was pointing out in the Quran, you might be inclined to do the same thing. You might be inclined to say, "Oh, it's talking about um it's talking about Allah's hands." That's just a metaphor for his power. But you can't you can't interpret it that way. You have to interpret it in some other way. Because if you interpret as we would if we if we saw something about God's hands in the Bible, if you were to interpret Allah's hands in the Quran as simply a metaphor for his power, the passages don't make sense anymore. They don't make sense because Allah is distinguishing how he created Adam from everything else that he's created. And he says, "What's special and unique about Adam is he created Adam with his two hands?" So, can hands be a metaphor for power? No.
Allah creates everything with his power.
So, if Allah creates everything with his power, but what's unique about Adam is that Allah created him with his hands.
Hands can't be a metaphor for power anymore. It has to it has to mean something else. And so, it's Muslim scholars who said this means Allah. This means Allah has hands. And then once you once you open that door, okay, he has hands. Okay, when it talks about his shin, how on the uh at you know at the judgment, how are Muslims going to recognize him? Allah is going to pull up his dress and show his shin and Muslims are going to recognize him because somehow they they know what his shin looks like and so on. So you've got you've got the Muslim scholars, they said, "Nope, Allah actually has body parts." And so this accusation has been brought against Muslims. Ali Dawa and his shake both agree Allah has actual body parts, but they think they've got they think they've got the Christians.
Aha, we just found out that God has an outstretched arm in the Bible. You see this? This is you bunch of hypocrites.
How do you not know this? And they don't realize we're not we're not anthropomorphous like they are. Weird stuff. Weird stuff. By the way, little side note, guys. When you when you understand that Allah has actual um physical body parts, it starts making sense why they can't believe in like the incarnation, right?
Allah already has a body. How's he going to enter creation as Jesus of Nazareth when he's already got a body? Like like God if God is spirit as he is in the Bible, right? That that that's one thing. If Allah already has a physical body, how's he going to become incarnate as a as someone else's like another physical body? Doesn't work. So weird weird stuff. But let's see. Let's see where Avery takes him with this.
>> He has his power.
>> Where do you bring from the verse? The verse said, Hold on. Point to me. The verse says that God's power is his outstretched arm. What I'm doing power before POWER AND STRETCHED ARM.
YOU SPEAK ENGLISH. SO IT'S power and it's outstretched arm.
>> Now you see what he's doing here, Anthony. He's saying it says p it says power and outstretched arm. So the outstretched arm is something different from the power. And I think Ollie Dav say in a second. What what's he just repeating himself as if over and over and over again? You don't have the the parallelism. It says it then says it again. It says it and it says it again in a different way. It says it and it says it again in a different way. Yeah.
Yeah, it's funny. I So, I've been teaching a hermeneutics class out at the prison and we just got through looking at Hebrew poetry and this is just basic Hebrew poetry. That's how it works. It it works by way of parallelism. There's different kinds of parallelism, but the point is that you have this repetition and the repetition in the case of poetry is intended to bring out what has already been said in another way. So, >> so, >> and >> so you're saying they don't know even the most basics? They don't know the basics of reading the Bible.
>> They they need to they they they need to go to prison and join my hermeneutics class.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I strongly suspect they both belong in prison for some reason, but I can't I can't prove it. I can't prove it. Um, but uh yeah, guys, so this is this is just amazing. Again, this is Ali Dawa's been one of the uh one of the world champions of da'wah for all these years and his shake the guy who teaches him and they they think aha the Bible says outstretched arm this mean your god has a body too so how dare you criticize our god for being a physical uh limited spatial being is trying to say the arm is power >> yes his arm is his power yes his arm is his power >> if you guys notice when it gets put out >> no ignorance His arm is His arm is his power. THEN COME DEAL WITH ME IF I'M IGNORANT. Don't Don't sit down. Come deal with me. NO. THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT.
I TOLD YOU. That's what I thought. I told you >> because it's too easy, brother. It's too easy.
>> Me and you are equals.
>> No. No. No. You're not. You're not even EQUAL TO MY BODYGUARD. MY BODYGUARD cooked you last time. HE DESTROYED YOU LAST TIME. ABSOLUTELY AMAZING. I'm glad you can. I'm still I'm glad you can. I'm still >> You see how insane this is? This is This is Ali Dawa and he's saying, "No, no, no. You're You're not good enough for my shake. You and me are equals. What? In what way?
Like what? God logic's a thousand times smarter than This is just This is weird.
Wait, wait, wait. So, but yeah, but so, but notice there's still a disparity here.
Ali Dawa's got his shake whispering in his ear, right? Like the Shayans as it says in the in the in the Quran. But who's whispering in Avery's ear?
So if they're equal, it's it's like Ali Dawa is his shake's sock puppet.
>> Yeah.
>> So if Ali Dawa fails or blunders, it's his shake that's blundering and failing.
>> Yeah. And that makes me uh you know, I've always thought Ali Dawa is just really dumb. But if it's actually his shake who's really dumb and he just repeats whatever his shake says, it's like, oh, it's not it's not maybe it's not entirely Ali Dawa's fault.
>> It was so bad I couldn't sleep for days.
So bad. Yeah. When he was sweating, losing his breath. Just be allow me. He was nervous.
>> What's your argument?
>> What did he say? He said the father >> does not have arms.
>> Does not have a hand, arms, body.
>> I told him. I told him I'm going to come with the intellectual right hand.
>> Yeah.
>> Ah, sovereign Lord, you have made the heavens and the earth by your great power. Now, this means you can't equate the hand to power because it's distinguishing by power.
>> It's written in the same context. That's what I'm talking about. And ask me what >> let let him break it down. Let let alli do it. He don't need your help, >> right? I told him don't do this.
>> You're not ready for this. All you got to take care of me all chilling out.
>> All you got to take care of.
>> No logic. Don't do this to yourself.
>> Come on.
>> Triangle has four sides.
>> BY YOUR POWER.
>> HE DIDN'T KNOW this first.
>> What? Wait. How many sides of Triangle got >> and outrage?
>> No, that's my point. You say you have four sides. That's my point.
>> No, you're saying he's laughing at me.
Laughing himself.
>> You're saying that, not me. I never said that.
>> Good. Perfect. Don't forget that as well. You never said that. Watch this now.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Power. An outstretched arm.
>> Uhhuh.
>> Now, does the father have an arm?
>> No.
>> Brother, should I follow scripture right here?
>> Now, now my turn.
>> I follow scripture right here. My turn.
>> Is it Is it my turn?
>> Hey, Ali. Is it my turn?
>> Should I Should I follow him here?
>> Is it Is it my turn?
>> Yes. What I'm doing?
>> All right. Now, watch this. Now, I'm I'm about to show you something. I'm about to show you something that your God cannot show you. Watch this. This is John 4. This is what it says.
>> Put the extra that's there.
>> Look. He says this.
>> He says, "This is Jesus."
>> Yes.
>> Woman, believe me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the father.
Talking about the father, right?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. He goes on to say, you worship what you do not know. We worship what we know.
>> He goes on to say, "But an hour is coming, and now is when the true worshippers will worship the father in spirit and in truth."
>> They worship the father.
>> For such yep, oh, we going to get to this. Jesus. Now, watch this. For such people the father seeks to be his worshippers. God is spirit.
>> God is spirit, right?
>> Do spirits have arms?
>> You tell me.
>> YOU TELL ME HE DOES.
>> He was about to go. You tell me.
>> You got to study.
>> You got to study there. The scripture says, "Do spirits have ours?" Be real with me.
>> Scripture says, "Yes."
>> Be real with me.
>> Alice says yes. Are you created in God's image? Are you created IN GOOD LOOK LIKE GOD.
>> ARE YOU look according to the according to the hadith? I'm created I'm created IN ALLAH'S IMAGE ACCORDING TO THAT FAITH.
>> Oh yeah. So say Bkari says that we are made in the image of Allah. SO DOES ALLAH HAVE A FACE LIKE ME?
>> GOOD. GOOD. PERFECT.
>> NO, NO, NO. Let him answer. He stepped up.
>> I I hope it'd be a face like you and not a face like Ali Dawa. Uh th this reminds me of those uh tag team wrestling things back in the day at WWE. Maybe still going on. I don't watch them anymore, but you know the the one guy gets in and he starts getting pummeled. So he has to tap the other guy to come in, right? So the shake comes in and he he jumps back out because he he doesn't want to get hit.
>> Oh, you take the lumps, Ali.
>> Okay, so guys, so far so far. So Ali Ali Dawa was saying, uh, hey, according to your own Bible, how dare you criticize us because we believe Allah has actual literal body parts according to the Bible itself. God has body parts. And then Avery shows, wait a minute, uh, says right here, God is spirit. God is spirit, right? God is spirit. Spirit have these body parts. And Ali, well, I don't know. I I would I would know, but the scripture says yes. So Ali Ali's not getting the point. And he's saying, "Well, if the Bible says God is spirit and the Bible says God has body parts, by golly, then a spirit can have body parts." So, let's see.
>> OH, HEY, THERE'S NO IT MIGHT BE MUSLIM. It might be Let's see. Watch this. Hey, hey, you you're getting your boy in trouble here.
>> You're getting He getting his boy in trouble.
>> Give it to me.
>> And notice notice Avery said Bukari said, "But it might be Sah Muslim."
Yeah, it's actually sah Muslim, but he's looking it up.
talking about the talking about the hadith. Uh well, I think there's there's there's only two that I can think of where >> um >> Adam according to his form.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, man is created in the image of God and and uh it's weird. The Muslim scholars actually kind of flip out and do some gymnastics for how to interpret that because they don't want to say that um man is created in God's image. Apparently, Muhammad is just copying it because he heard it from the he heard it from the Jews and Christians, and his his followers didn't try to figure out how this reconciles with what the Quran actually teaches until later. And uh they haven't done a good job of doing that. But then the shake brought it up as a criticism. Um hey, aren't aren't aren't you created in God's image? And Avery points out well according to the Quran I mean according to uh Muhammad in uh he says Bkari or Muslim I am created in Allah's image. So >> come on you give it to me.
>> So the the hadiths uh I remember going back and forth decade ago or so more with Basam Zawadi. So Basam of course was at least I assume still is even though he's not active publicly but a very outspoken Salafi and he took that literally it where it says that Allah made Adam according to his form but the alternative interpretation which you're saying they jumped through hoops it shows how desperate uh certain Muslims are to get away from this stuff.
The the the hadith says Allah created Adam according to his form. The natural reading here is that it's Allah's form that is the paradigm for Adam. But the way the non Salafes wanted to interpret this is they said Allah created Adam according to his form. His refers to Adam. So there's it's very convoluted but the idea >> I think that's what the shake does here or Ali Dava I think. Oh, well they're salafies. They shouldn't, but uh interesting. So, but the idea is that like there's somehow there's this form antecedent to Adam according to which Adam is made, right? So, uh I don't know. I I don't know if it's his platonic form, right? Existing up there with Allah. And Allah looks at it and says, "Okay, this is how we're going to make Adam." Anyways, >> yeah, I think I think he's about to say that. Let's hear it. Unless Unless because I know I just I know I just heard someone arguing that. I think it was from this YouTube.
>> Yo, what's up? Yo guys, brothers, >> watch this. Hey, don't look at me. I got it for you.
>> Bring it out.
>> I got you, Habibi.
>> I'm multitasking.
>> I'm multitasking. I'm multitasking, guys. Okay, I'm multitasking. I'm the only one that's debating this clown while doing a thumbnail and I'm releasing a video.
>> No. No. He said what? Shake.
>> We went to scripture. Forget Ali. Ali is a nobody. Scripture says what? God, thy God, Lord has arms. So, brother, don't come to us. If you're living in a glass house, you're going to get smashed.
>> See the You see the dead silence.
>> And don't forget what he said. He said a triangle cannot have four sides, which I agree. But he tried to fit a triangle into a square last time. Do you guys remember?
>> Yes.
>> You had a whole square in a You had a triangle in a square. Let me let me let me What's wrong with you? Let me let me >> I have it posted up by Listen, this this girl.
>> All right. So, one second. Oh, you agree with me. So you agree that Allah is not omnip not omnipotent.
>> Smoke.
>> Do you agree with with >> Do you agree with that? That Allah is not omnip omnipotent.
>> That's the God of arms.
>> Answer. Do you agree with >> Do YOU AGREE WITH KORA?
>> DO YOU AGREE? I already answered you.
>> You came with arms.
>> I already answered you. You came with arms.
>> The answer is no. I came.
>> SO DO YOU AGREE?
>> I show the scripture.
>> Do you agree?
>> So watch this.
>> This is another one. I who made the earth and created my second brother.
>> MY OWN HANDS STRETCHED OUT the heavens.
>> No worries. No worries.
>> Do you hear that? My own hands stretched out the heavens. So quoting the Bible again. My own hands stretched out the heavens. You say the God of the Bible has has a hand.
>> Hands.
>> Now watch this guys.
>> My own hands.
>> Watch this.
>> Cuz he's right.
>> You know what Allah says in the Quran.
Don't make your own.
>> It wasn't It wasn't Sai Bukari. It wasn't Sai Bukari. He came to Muslim, isn't it? In his own hand. You're right.
Hey, you're right. It's Muslim. It's Muslim.
>> It's Muslim. It's Muslim. It's Muslim.
Watch this. Yeah. Yeah, I was wrong.
It's Muslim. That's what it says here, y'all. It says, "When any of you fights with his brother, he should avoid his face. For Allah created Adam in his own image." Do you believe that?
>> JEDI. THAT'S THE OTHER ONE.
SO MUSLIM.
>> OH MUSLIM. HEY, guess what? It's >> okay.
>> Hey, it's authentic though.
>> But what do we So do you think that Allah looks like you?
>> Listen. No.
>> Does Allah DOES ALLAH LOOK LIKE GOOD?
>> OH, THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT. BECAUSE you believe because you believe God is a man.
>> This is too easy.
>> What did I say last time he came here? I said because you guys believe God is a man. Everywhere you look, God has to be a man. Now, how do we understand this?
We understand it by saying Allah created Adam in his original image of Adam.
>> Adam you hear that?
>> Yeah. But that okay so the problem he would have then so this is not typically the the standard saly response. He's reverting this probably in desperation. But it might also be the case that even as a sali he doesn't want to acknowledge that man is Allah's image bearer even if he thinks Allah has physical parts and so forth because that seems to raise man above the status of a slave to which the Quran has reduced him. I don't know how else to make sense out of this because uh other sales just say yeah Allah has a form. Well of course. So notice actually though this is interesting because Avery is quoting one hadith that that actually talks about the face but Ali Dawa's re reverting to the other hadith. The other hadith says Allah made Adam according to his form. So, it's interesting. They're you can see how they're being uh sneaky here because they're acting like there was no such hadiths, right? And and then when Avery brings up one, now Ali Dawa and answering slips and he he he shows his knowledge of the other hadith. And then he uh and then he says it just when it says that Adam was created in in his image form, >> it means his original form. Well, that doesn't make any sense. The reason you're not supposed to hit hit someone in the face is because what? Because Adam was made in Adam's image.
That doesn't make any sense, right? It it the the hadith is saying there's something special about another uh you know, your buddy here. Don't hit him in the face. There's something special about him. Well, he's created in the image of God. That would actually make sense.
That would be similar to what we find in the Bible about not not mistreating people. Um but it it makes no sense with the from the hadith.
>> Everywhere you look, God has to be a man. Now, how do we understand this?
First, we understand it by saying Allah created Adam in his original image of Adam.
>> Adam good. Yes.
>> Wait, wait. So, Adam, Adam was created in the image of Adam.
>> It says Allah created Adam in his own image in the thumbnail, >> not in Adam's image.
>> Hear this. What would it mean to say Allah created Adam in Adam's original image? What makes no sense, guy? It makes no sense.
So, so somebody somebody in the chat says, "Peace of the Lord Jesus to David and Tank." I'm thinking he's referring to me as Tank Abbott. You remember Tank Abbott?
>> Yeah, you do. Yeah, we do.
>> I'm doing I told you, look, leave hijab.
He's too You're not brother. It says Allah created Adam in his own image.
>> Listen, listen. We accept >> in Allah's image, not Adam's.
>> We said you don't accept. Good. I'm listening. Go. Look, he's learning now.
We the scholars say this is talking about because we don't believe God is a man because you do you're like yes in my image.
>> So what scholar says it's Adam's image?
What scholar?
>> If you're saying God created Adam what scholar says it's Adam's image?
>> Black or white?
>> IS GOD BLACK OR WHITE?
>> Bring it up.
>> Yes.
Go check.
>> He said no and tell me to bring it up.
>> Fact.
>> Bring it up.
>> Go fact check.
>> Bring it up.
>> Go fact check.
>> I know. Bring it up. No. No.
>> But your God has put hands on. Your God has put hands.
>> I already answered you. I already answered you. I already answered you. I already answered you. YOU KNOW WHAT'S FUNNY?
>> SO SO HIS GOD HAS HANDS. HIS GOD HAS A FOOT. HIS GOD HAS A SHIN. HIS GOD HAS EYES. YOUR GOD SOUNDS LIKE ME.
>> YOUR GOD SOUNDS LIKE ME.
>> Leave it to me. You know, you know, you know what?
>> It is cool. Uh that that is uh people have said it before, but it that really took off with Elijah Johnson going that's you're what what Allah's not omnipotent. He's temporal. He's spatial. He just goes down the list of Kora describing Allah and he go that sounds like a regular dude.
That sounds like me. And then he goes down like her entire list of Allah's attributes is just a regular is just a regular person. But uh now Avery's doing it too. That sounds like me.
>> How Allah works. I didn't even know about this passage that she's talking about yesterday on our live. You can rewind. She was like, "Oh, did you know in the Bible?" I was like, "Yeah." I was like, "What's next? What's new? What's what's now today?" He goes, "People give God has arms." I was like, "Nah." He was like, "Yeah, let me show." I said, "Nah, she n let me show you."
>> Notice this is Ali Dawa admitting until yesterday and he's saying that that that this is the amazing power of Allah.
Allah informed him about this yesterday so that he could use it today and it's pointed out, hey, did you know God in the Bible is described as having an outstretched arm? And he's, Nah, that means he never knew any of this stuff, which means he hasn't. I mean, Anthony, how far do you have to go in the Bible in your Bible reading to find this? He pointed out it's all over the place. Oh man, >> bro, he opened it when he showed me. I was like, "Oh my gosh, the audacity, the rich, the irony coming here to talk about Allah's hands when he believes and he got school right now." He's like, "Oh, damn. I should have done my damn homework. I SHOULD HAVE READ JEREMIAH. I SHOULD HAVE READ JEREMIAH." And >> now he thinks that Avery's because he wasn't familiar with it. He thinks Avery wasn't familiar with this stuff.
>> THIS SCRIPT, LOOK AT HIM. LOOK AT HIM. EVEN HIS BOYS LAUGHING. HIS BOYS LIKE LISTEN. YO, this is Pete. Yo, no. This He shouldn't get prepared today. Read Jeremiah. Look at him. He's gone quiet. He usually does this with his mustache.
>> What happened to you today? What happened to you today? You gone silent.
>> I thought so.
>> Can I respond to what you said?
>> No. No. Now that we've got the stuff, let me respond to what you just said.
So, watch this, guys. So, so listen, ladies and gentlemen. So, so he says that God has arms. I already told him that God is spirit. This is what our Bible says right now. Watch this. He didn't know he knows how to answer. He says he knows that spirits do not have a physical uh physical body parts. They're immaterial. Now all he knows that. So when I show him it says that God is spirit. So what does it mean when God has authority? What does it mean that God has his power? It means that God showcases his power, his authority. But in Islam, they don't have this distinction because they don't know if Allah is a spirit or not. They don't know if Allah is immaterial. Hold on.
I'll let you go. They don't know if Allah is immaterial.
>> Remember earlier when he said you don't even know what you don't even know what your God is. And now he's breaking it down. You can't you don't even know whether Allah is immaterial or material.
And Ali Dal was basically going to admit this.
>> They don't know if Allah is physical. We know that Allah that our God the Father is spirit. So he doesn't have literal hands. He doesn't have literal arms. But their God does. They can't com they can't compete with this. So my question to you is, is Allah spirit or is he physical?
>> Simple question. Come on, >> simple.
>> Perfect. Does God have a backside?
>> Notice he's asking me another question.
>> CUZ MOSES SAW THE BACKSIDE OF GOD.
>> WE'LL DO THIS AGAIN.
>> THE SPIRIT. CAN THE SPIRIT HAVE A BACKSIDE?
>> WE'LL DO THIS AGAIN.
>> Can have a backside.
>> We'll do this again.
>> Answer the question.
>> Answer the question. Answer the question.
>> Now, answer.
>> In our faith, in in our relationship, >> is it spirit or is it physical?
>> We say we say meaning there is nothing like Allah. Now in their religion there is nothing like unto him.
>> What does that mean?
>> Do you exist like one more one more time in English?
>> There is nothing like unto him.
>> What does that mean?
>> Is the old hair.
>> Okay. For example, for example, >> so this is actually an important verse.
But here's here's a bit of irony. Every different school of Islamic aka appeals to this passage. It's surah 42:11. They all appeal to it to justify their different view on these issues. So the asheris who deny that Allah has body parts will say the Salafies like Ali Dawa here and his shake uh they say that they're violating this passage because they're likening Allah to his creation. Now the the muatisi and the the Shia who largely embody that line of thought still today.
If you look at uh the sermons of Ali and Najal Balaga uh he mentions basically that you have to deny that Allah has any kind of attributes even spiritual qualities like omniscience omnipotence omni benevolence all those things have to be denied because if you say he has attributes you're likening Allah to his creatures who also have attributes right so my point here is to show here's two radically different actually three on the table now the sales the ash and the matisali or Shia and they they all have different views but they all appeal to surah 4211 to prove this and in one way or another say the others are guilty of violating it but what's interesting is when you look at the actual context of surah 4211 the whole point there that Allah is making is that everything has a mate he made everything in pairs right so uh men men have women uh there's male dogs, female dogs, you know, but Allah doesn't have a spouse, right? He doesn't have a mate. And so what it's saying is there's there's not another one of those, right?
There's not a female counterpart to Allah. That's all it's saying. It's it's not saying that Allah is in terms of his essential nature immaterial or doesn't have appendages or anything. It's just saying he doesn't have another mate. Now the other thing is there are expressions like this in the Quran that can't mean something like that. So remember that Muhammad said that the believing women are not like the unbelieving women right. So does this mean that the believing women don't have arms? Does it mean they don't have feet and shin? So anyways, these guys have taken this their own text right out of context and they're putting it to an allgether different use than it has in the Quran.
and doesn't even help them because I mean Avery's going I mean he's notice he's just going what does that mean and they he can't even Ali Dama can't even explain what it means and then he's asking simple questions well if I exist and Allah exists aren't we alike and that we both exist so wouldn't I be like Allah and that we both exist and uh going to be rough for Ali to >> you guys understand what I mean there is nothing on him there's nothing like talk to me talk to For for example, I'll try to clarify. Okay. Does Allah have hands?
>> The way his majesty. Yes.
>> Right. And we have hands, right?
>> Yes. But it's not the same hand.
>> Exactly. I got you.
>> Look. Does the clock have a hand? Does the clock have a hand? Is it the same hand?
>> Not Not as ours. Now, one question. Hold on. Hold on. One second. Bro, you exist.
>> I I one second.
>> I'm going to I'm going to be quiet. I'm going to be quiet. I exist. I have hands. Does God exist?
>> I God exists. Is it the same exist? Are we similar to the same exist? Are we similar?
>> No.
>> Good. Good. Perfect. This is the crux of the matter. Did you hear that? Do you exist?
>> I exist. Does Allah exist?
>> Does God exist?
>> Yes.
>> Is it the same exist?
>> So, are we So, >> is it the same existence?
>> Let me answer you and I'm going ask you a point after this.
>> So, it's not the same existence, but are but are we similar in that we both exist?
>> Okay.
>> Yeah, THAT'S THE POINT.
>> OKAY. SO, WE DO HAVE A SIMILARITY TO ALLAH.
>> It's not the same. Okay. So, has a hand.
I have a hand. But, it's not the way that B has.
>> I got you. So, we are similar to Allah, but not in every way, right?
>> Become a just answer. So we have similarities to Allah in that we have man we exist mercy >> what Drake?
>> Yeah. I didn't realize you were >> You just noticed You just noticed Drake, man. Drake's been there the entire time.
>> He But I didn't He's His His head's shaved and uh last time I saw him, he didn't he didn't have a shaved head >> and didn't have the gayest shirt I've ever seen in my life on.
>> Yeah, that that's the other thing.
But it's not the same.
>> Okay.
>> So Allah is perfect to us. It's not.
>> Got it. So we are like Allah, but we're not perfect like Allah.
>> No, we're not like Allah. I'm confused.
>> We have Look, you're not confused. You admitted it. We exist. Allah exists. Not the same.
>> So we're like Allah then we exist.
>> For example, you exist, the father exists.
>> Is it same exist?
>> So am I like the father that I exist?
>> No, you got your shared existence, but your existence come to an end, but his doesn't.
>> SURE.
>> GOOD. OMEGA.
>> PAUSE THERE. Pause here. Pause here. So just like how Allah exists, he exists, I exist, >> I don't exist the same way Allah exists, but we are similar in that we exist, right?
>> Yes. Existence.
>> So So in existence, we are alike.
>> Yes.
>> He just admitted it because exi as far as existence is concerned, we're alike and that we both exist. Yes. Okay. So there you can be like Allah in certain ways. He got him to admit the bare minimum at least in terms of existence.
Right?
>> So we are like Allah in certain instances. Correct.
>> In this context, existence is what we share.
>> Sure.
>> The same hand we share but it's not the same thing.
>> I got you. So, so what you're saying is is that we're like Allah in one way, but we're not alike Allah in another way. Is that correct?
>> Am I speaking English? Am I speaking English?
>> It's a waste of time.
>> It's a waste of time. I'm doing my phone.
>> Now he doesn't want you to talk to me.
>> I'm doing my fun.
>> Now he doesn't want you to talk to me.
Ali, listen to him. Listen to him, Ali.
>> Listen to him.
>> The shake is trying to avert disaster.
>> Yeah, he is.
He know he knows Ali's kind of getting into some trouble here.
>> Answer this question if he wants to keep talking. But you got to answer otherwise.
>> Do you believe you're made in Allah's image?
>> Look.
>> Yes.
>> Yes. No, I said to you, I imi imawi imawi in his commentary.
>> But but let's let's see this. Does your god tire?
>> No.
>> No. Why did I rest? Why did I rest in Exodus 2011?
>> Look, look at Ali Dawa shaking his head.
He doesn't want to shake. He knows God logic will eat him up on this. So watch.
He He doesn't let him go there. Watch.
>> Excellent question.
>> CREATED THE HEAVENS AND EARTH. SIX DAYS were unrested and rested on the election.
>> ALI'S TELLING YOU TO STOP. ALI'S TELLING YOU TO STOP. HEY, he said, "Hey, OG."
>> So, wait, wait. No, this is this is too good. So, the shake's trying to get Ali Dawa to stop cuz he sees disaster coming. And Ali Dawa wants his shake to stop because he sees disaster coming.
>> No, that is that is hilarious. He's like, "Oh, this is bad. This is bad."
And Ali Dawa doesn't know what he's talking about and it's all over camera and it's going to be on. Let me try to change the subject to something else.
And Ali Dawa, no. God logic will destroy you on this. Just stop shake. Stop this.
Ali Dawa telling his own shake to be quiet.
>> Oh well.
>> He said, "Hey, he said >> this guy."
>> He said, "Stop.
>> This ain't it. Go ahead and take a seat."
>> Hashimans, please. This guy, leave him to me.
Please. This guy is not.
>> You're the only hope. Ali, >> listen. You're the only hope.
>> An uncle cause a dependent independent.
>> You're the only hope.
>> This guy, leave him to me. I told you guys. Look, he came to me.
>> Why do you agree with everything I say?
>> You came to me.
>> Of course, you're my best buddy.
>> I'm going to bury you today. You're my best. I'm nearly done. I'm nearly done.
I'm nearly done. How does the fun?
>> Would you click on this?
>> I miss you.
>> Would you click on this? Honestly, I would. Yes. Even Listen, even though I'm a big fan going to be out, I'm a big fan.
>> That That's probably the best thing Ali Dawa did this whole time. I don't expect him to do better than that where he got Avery to say, "Yeah, I'd click on that."
>> Yep.
>> I would use that if I was Ali Dawa, right?
>> Yeah, I would. I would. You know what? I definitely use Ali Dawa here in a second's going to start saying, "Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life."
Yes. Jesus is the way, the truth, and life. Yes. He's the ONLY WAY TO THE FATHER. And he's like I'm like, "Oh my goodness."
>> I love talking to Ali Dawa.
>> What did he say?
>> He does a great help for Christianity.
>> He is my greatest.
>> Look, I support anybody that supports Christ. Ali Dawa has done more work for Jesus Christ than I have ever done. HE HAS BROUGHT FOR CHRIST. ALI DAWA HAS BROUGHT MORE PEOPLE TO CHRISTIANITY than I ever have.
>> Thank you, sir. HEY, >> ALI DAWA, PEACE BE UPON HIM.
>> NO PROBLEM. THANK YOU.
>> PEACE BE UPON ALI.
>> NOW, I LOVE CHRIST.
>> MAY CHRIST peace be upon you, bro.
>> He said, "Thank you.
>> I love Christ. I will die for Christ. I wish I live to be in his army against the Antichrist." We love Christ.
>> Good. That means you're going to destroy Muhammad.
>> That means you're going to say Muhammad.
Last time we discussed and I asked him the character of an antichrist, what did he say? He said, "We Muslims believe in a man god."
>> And everyone laughed at him. You know why? He knows that the only people that believe a man came, claimed to be God, done miracles, which religion.
>> He's clearly still hurt over last year when he got crushed on this because he's bringing it back up in the midst of a completely different discussion.
>> Yeah. And this, you can notice the way he puts this. This is classic for Muslims. They they distort our doctrine in their heads. Like they're they're trying to work hard not to even get it.
And that's why they can almost never say anything accurately about it. They'll constantly refer to our belief in the incarnation as belief in a man god. So notice how I mean the hand movements as he's talking, he's saying a man came and he's he's moving from above to below. A man came and claimed to be God. so forth in their thinking. We believe that Jesus is a man and and somehow I mean we're ascribing deity to him. They're thinking of him as fundamentally a man and deity is somehow coordinated to that. Our view is that Jesus is a divine person from eternity. His humanity is something assumed in time. It's not that which is essentially true of him eternally as God. It's something that became true of him in the economy when he condescended.
On the other hand, what we're pointing out when it comes to Islam, there's no incarnation of Allah. Allah didn't at some point become an embodied being. He just is, right? He just is an embodied being. He has eyes, face, and so forth.
>> And that's why it's a problem, right?
That's why it's a problem for them because we can then account for creation for example of the universe coming into being space matter time which are prerequisites right preconditions for physical existence you can't have an embodied being apart from space matter and time so the god who made those things has to be apart from them right he has to exist independently of those constraints but Allah isn't that because Allah just is these things and that's why in fact there's even debates among Muslims over how to interpret you know the there's a hadith where it says that uh Allah existed and before him there was nothing and his throne was over the waters. Now when Muslims cite this they often say that Allah existed before everything else but that's not what the hadith says as certain Muslims point out. uh certain Muslims point out that it says there nothing existed before him. It's not saying that there wasn't anything else with him. In fact, the hadith says his throne was over the waters. In which case, the idea is Allah existed from the beginning as did his throne as did the water. So, it doesn't teach that Allah existed before everything else in a spaceless context or something like that. All these things are presupposed.
So, uh I'm thinking that there uh I don't know there's a I was going to say uh you know Ali Dawa had his shake whispering in his ears, but we see where David's getting his inspiration from behind him. There are strange fellows lurking.
>> AP just randomly walks up and then walks out.
My mom used to so my my mom uh our family moved from Sicily to uh Ohio and you know big Italian community and stuff and I found in our garage one day there's this weird object this round thing and it just looked fascinating to me and I asked them what it was and they said it's it's a thing that goes around a doorork knob and you can lock it. So and I'm I I'm asking what in the world is this for? like why why do you have a thing that goes around your door lock?
Why don't you you just the door locks by itself, right? And they said, "Well, because they had a uh their uncle uh he's my great uncle, my great uncle Milo. Apparently, he would show up in the morning really early when everybody's still asleep. He'd come in the house, he'd turn the stereo up, and then leave. And and so they had to get this gadget to to lock the lock the lock so he couldn't come in uninvited.
Classic classic.
Uh take a couple super chats. Uh that was that was the chorus to Too Late Again from Emmy. Oh, that song. A pop punk band, but you're never late or on time. You showed up when Darwin needs to be destroyed.
doesn't mean I heard your punk song. Do these arguments reach average Muslims not watching DA? How long until the average Muslim stops believing in things like perfect preservation? Well, yeah, we got to keep uh we got to keep working at it, guys, because that's what you find out. You'll have the the kings of Da eventually admit something after they've been using an argument for years and you completely destroy it. They'll eventually admit it, but you still have millions and millions and millions of Muslims who don't realize that their heroes have admitted that the argument was bogus and they keep using the uh using the argument. That's why you actually have to go like da booth to dawa booth to dawa booth.
>> Dawa stand whack-a-ole.
>> It's like whack-a-ole.
>> That's exactly like whack-a-ole. Dawa stand in front of cabaret poster foreshadowing. Yep. Absolutely. We have God can't be dependent on space to exist. Thanks, Roger.
Um, Anthony Rogers and Dwood, do you ever critique Islamic sermons Friday and Eid instead of just da? I'm thinking of doing it. Is it effective? Uh, only one way to find out. Go ahead and do it.
>> Ali Dawa sounds like Donnie from Wild Thornberries.
Never seen it. F in the chat for Allah.
She can't do the hokeyp pokey.
Not with one leg. Uh, when I'm burning in hell, I'm going to miss you guys and Jesus. What the heck? Why would you want to? What's wrong with you? Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time.
>> I I think it's because it has hand in the verse.
>> Hello, Dr. Wood. I found out in Germany, Baptists don't get taxed. Do you have another excuse for me not to get baptized?
That's funny. Uh Chad GPT, uh Allah, white dude on a cloud with no face.
That is that is like Chad GPT. Does your mama wipe with her right hand?
>> Um uh according to Islam, should angels still bow to Adam? Is it abregated?
Could an argument be made that Allah once was okay with idolatry then abregated it?
>> Yeah, I don't I don't see anything about continuing to prostrate.
>> It's still a problem though, right?
Because absolutely it's one it's one thing to abregate >> something like a ceremony. Mhm.
>> You know, something that has a limited intent, right? It's it's got a shelf life.
>> But for Allah to say that sherk is the worst sin fundamentally revoling to him and then say, "Okay, no more >> everyone bow down." Yep. And then I mean also the Quran itself, the Quran itself, Surah 41:37 says, "Don't bow to the sun.
Don't bow to the moon. Only bow to the creator, the one who created them." And then you've got Allah commanding angels to bow to his creation. And that's what's amazing. Satan is actually the good guy in the story if you actually read it. And like we we tend to read that and go, "Oh, it's Satan's pride that kept him from bowing down." No, Satan's pointing out when he when he when he says, "What are you talking about? I'm made from I'm made from fire.
He's made from clay."
And then to Oh, he's too proud. No, he's saying, "Wait a minute. I He's lower than I am. Why would I be bowing down to him? I should only be bowing to Allah.
Whereas all the others, oh, Allah said it, so let's all just bow down to this thing he just let's all bow down to the creation because he said it. And the what's that what that's doing, as far as I can tell, what that's doing is programming Muslims to simply mindlessly obey even if it doesn't make sense. Even if it doesn't make any sense. If Allah commands you to do something, and in reality, if Muhammad commands you to do something and it makes no sense and seems to violate everything you've been taught, shut up and do it anyway. do not question or you'll be like Satan who's like, "Hey, wait a minute. I don't think I'm supposed to be bowing down to anything besides God, so I'm not going to do it." Wrong. Now you're punished.
So, um, Allah trying to claim disability parking space in London.
So, the implication of Allah having created parts that it makes him a little GD like other pagan deities and thus not the true God. Yeah, it's not even created parts. It's just he's always been this weird physical gremlin being that sounds exactly like pagan deities.
Imagine Muslims going, "Huh, go ahead."
>> Well, ju just quickly the So Muhammad of course comes from a pagan context.
That's not a Christian slander. That's what their own sources teach is kinsmen were pagans.
>> The Jewish tribes that that were in Arabia were Talmudic Jews. The Talmud has all kinds of gross anthropomorphisms.
You can find some of the things that are in the Quran or at least in the hadith where it's talking about like uh it talks about Allah resting all creation on a finger and stuff like that. And a lot of these hadiths involve interaction with Jews. And in some narrations, it's the Jews that are saying this. In other narrations, it's a Muslim or Muhammad saying it. But in the ones where the Jews factor in, Muhammad is responding to what they say about Allah's finger and and he's he's smiling in approval of what they're saying. So, so the point here would be if you go to the Talmud and you determine that these Talmudic Jews, post-Christian Jews, are advocating some kind of anthropomorphism and we know that's what these Jews of Muhammad's time are advocating, then it gives you an idea of what Muhammad is talking about. And there's all kinds of literature showing this just was the view of of Jews in Arabia at that time.
So this just reinforces the crude anthropomorphism of Muhammad.
>> Imagine Muslims going, "Haha, Jacob wrestled with God, so he has a body in the Bible, too, not knowing that they actually confirmed the Trinity in the Old Testament." Um, tick- tock. Time to sock. Good evening, good morning, good afternoon to everyone who's putting on socks. Oh, hey, it's the Sons of Anarchy Social Reject.
Noted. Hey, it's not Sons of Anarchy reject. It's Sons of Anarchy Social Reject. Truth is in front of Muslims, but they can't see it because eyes are the leather strap of the You know what?
Yeah, we know what. God, Logic, and Ali Dawa. Promo would be the second best wrestling match, only second to Jacob and God's match. Um, outstretched arms equals figure of speech. Qualifying potency of the power. When you outstretch your arms, you reach farther.
Uh Wes Huff did an amazing why I'm not uh why I'm not a Catholic, why I'm solos scriptor. 1 million views, 11,000 comments. Amazing video. We will check it out. I'll probably watch uh like a collection of solos scriptorra videos and see what happens. Triangle with four sides. That one for the red book. Yeah, Avery should have pulled out his little book of things Muslims say. This is like watching two toddlers try to tag team a professional boxer. Yes, it is. And we got Chris Claus. Hey, Chris. How can Adam be made in Adam's original form?
What was his form before he was created?
I know that's what that's what >> Allah is Allah is a platinist.
>> Yep. Has any prominent prominent Da figure you've uh seen ever converted to Christianity? And realistically, could you see any of the current ones converting? Well, if you mean prominent ones like Muhammad Hijab and stuff, no.
I mean there have been DA guys who can like I mean like um I mean I mean Nabil all the way back in the day was was was giving da and that's how we started having discussions is he tried he tried doing that with me um and you have people like like Abdullah Samir he left and became um he became an atheist and so on um >> you mentioned Nibil wasn't he specifically being kind of groomed in that direction like the expectation Yeah.
>> Was that he would be a prominent Dai.
>> Yep. That was that was the uh that was the plan. Um as far as these guys converting um yeah, I think we're going to start seeing some of them cuz they uh basically up until very recently they were the ones who were, you know, um on on the offense attacking in every direction and that felt good. Now they find themselves more in defense and being required to explain these things and you see they just can't. So yeah, I think a lot of these and I don't whether they're going to go in an atheist or agnostic direction or a baretheism direction or become Christians, I don't know. But yeah, some of these guys are going to be leaving Islam here in the near future.
>> So by the way, remember Farhan Koreshi?
>> He he was he was a Dawa guy back in the day.
>> Yeah. He was part of the Muslim Debate Initiative.
>> Yeah. So he left Islam, but the reason I'm bringing it up now is because he left and he went into all kinds of weird Eastern stuff.
>> Yeah. Just when I say weird, to me it's just so foreign. It's just bizarre to get into. It's so radically different from not just Christianity, but Islam.
It it's it's just a strange contrast to that. But anyways, I heard recently that he went back to Islam, but now he's a kind of he's much more Sufi. He'd be like Yeah, >> like Issa.
>> Yeah, like Issa.
>> That'd be interesting. Yeah. So, yeah, guys, Farhan, uh, me and Nabil knew him back in the day. Nabil knew him, um, when Nabil was still a Muslim. Um, and, uh, Yep. I had pro I've had pro I had probably four or five debates with Farhan uh, over the years u both before both when he was a Muslim and then after he left Islam and he went in eastern direction. And according to Anthony, now he's more in the Sufi camp.
So yeah, we might need an update from Farhan in the near future.
Momo is a child. Grape is that's it.
That's the super chat. That's true. Um, one time for the new set of Islam. The Motherites. Oh yeah, I still got to make that video on the Motherites. Do you think any of the double guys secretly enjoy these interactions or respect you as a person?
Oh, it depends on what you mean by respect. It's like if you're if you're extremely nice and do what they want, they'll respect you in a sense as far as doing what they want, but really they don't respect you. If you come right at them, then they then they uh they'll complain about you and throw tantrums, but they do respect you. any idea how long?
>> I do know that some of these guys put on a bit of an act on the camera and not that they per se respect any of the Christians they're engaging with, but they they aren't usually as uppidity. I I can't say usually. I'm sorry. Some of them are not as uppety. They'll actually have a normal conversation with you, but as long as the camera's on, they got to perform. So, >> any idea how long Avery is out there?
I'm visiting for work. Would love to watch him roast Momos. I mean, they were at uh they were at Speaker's Corner today, so you could probably contact some of the locals and find out how long they're there. Don't tease Drake. We saw what you were wearing in the boom boom room. Hey, hey, what happens in the boom boom room stays in the boom boom room.
And I've been reading variations of Gnostic Police recently. It's just like, yeah, that's where Islam came from. That and first cousin marriage.
Dwood, I know Nibil is smiling down at you, brother. You're the kind of man who would lay down his life for his friend.
We see what you're doing for Avery.
Fight the good fight. Keep wrecking Da.
Oh, Da will keep getting wrecked. Uh, there's a copy of 13th century Turk Kuran written in three languages at John Ryland Library. It's available for scholarly inspection. Turkey. I find Ali Dawa funny. Wrong, but funny. Who is the funniest person you've ever debated?
Um, >> funny in what sense?
That reminds me of Joe Peshy. Funny how >> you don't like I amuse you?
>> I'd have I'd have to think I'd have to think about it. I know I know I've debated some some funny guys over the years.
>> Osama Osama's funny but but >> Nadir spaghetti Nadier Nadier can be funny. Yeah.
>> I mean I mean to be fair a lot of the da like Ali Dawa can be funny. Um he he doesn't actually debate. Hijab can be hijab can be funny. Some of these guys are some of these guys are funny sometimes. They make kalam argument state god immaterial.
Um, >> well then if if their calam arguments are valid, well then it would refute Islam, right? Because Muhammad's God is not immaterial.
Uh, Momo and the 10-in mutant Ninja Turtles of Alz and I made a da boy concede that the Quran isn't eternal. 616 is not in the Bible and that Allah is not omnipresent.
It's bad out there. Yeah, you you even got Kora saying that um Allah isn't omnipotent and you guys are you guys you guys are uh you guys are doing a bangup job mana guys. All right, let's let's finish this now. Watch this guys.
>> Christianity.
>> Ali, can I show you something?
>> Christianity.
>> So this is Luke 24. I want you to look at this. I need your I need your attention.
>> Listen listen. I have to do something more productive.
>> How much how much more time do you need on this?
>> I'm listening. I'm listening.
>> No, you're not. I would have time if you didn't talk because I'm multi. YOU STOOD UP TO TALK TO ME. I was going to give you time. Carry on. Carry on.
>> Okay. What did they say?
>> Yeah. Oh, there it is. 3:54. And look at this.
>> Has your wife recovered after 24?
>> Cora done to her.
>> Okay.
>> Has she recovered?
>> Um, no. Yeah. She She's doing great.
>> She goes way down.
You hear this? He goes, "Has your wife recovered after what Cora Cora got annihilated?"
Unless you're just too stupid and you think, "Oh, she was speaking really rapidly, therefore she must have been making sense." to anyone who had any clue what was going. I mean, Kora got annihilated and then started the cult of the Motherites.
Fun stuff.
>> Cora said Allah is not omnipotent.
>> Allah is temporal. You agree with her?
She's there. Where is she?
>> You agree with Cora?
>> Where is Talk to me? You agree with a >> So, hey, he's agreeing Allah is not omnipotent. He agrees that Allah is temporal. He agrees that Allah is omnipresent.
>> I know. I know.
>> Cor doesn't believe Allah is God.
Listen, I know you need to make money for the wife.
>> Allah's not gone according to court. Are you with her?
>> Money for the wife.
>> Are you with the court?
>> But why would you listen?
>> I know. I know you need to push these Muslims because you you Hey, if Islam is brought in a good light, support it.
Even if the Muslim says Allah is not God, SUPPORT IT. SUPPORT IT. IT DON'T MATTER.
>> IT DON'T MATTER. RIGHT?
>> That Jesus is white.
>> Right? So now watch this.
>> No. No. He's black. So Hebrew is black.
>> SO NOW WATCH THIS Y'ALL. SO THE BIBLE SAYS THE FATHER is spirit, right?
>> Yes.
>> So watch this. Jesus says >> in Luke 24, can you pay attention?
>> My friend, you okay, >> brother? Brother, don't get distracted.
Screaming too much.
>> Don't get distracted.
>> You're trying too hard.
>> Look, it's okay, man. Jesus says this.
Look, I said it too hard, >> man. You made me miss my spot, man.
>> Yeah. Go. I'm listening.
>> All right.
>> I'm listen. I'm listening.
>> He say what he say.
>> He lost track.
>> Here it is. So look. And he said to them, "Why are you troubled?
>> And why do doubts arise in your hearts?
See my hands.
>> You listening?
>> You have staff to do.
>> Are you listening?
>> Yeah. I'm I'm >> okay. He says, "See my hands.
>> See my feet that it is I myself." He says, "Touch me and see." He says, "For a spirit does not have flesh and b and bones >> as you see that I have."
>> Jesus is.
>> Okay. Jesus is. So watch this.
>> You guys, you guys catching this? So he's connecting it and they got diverted for a little bit. But earlier he showed that Jesus said that God is spirit and now he's pointing out that Jesus also says a spirit doesn't have flesh and bones.
So a spirit it doesn't have physical body parts.
>> Slow down.
>> So Jesus just made it clear spirits don't have bodies.
>> Right? So if God the father is spirit then God the father does not have a physical body. Now here's my question to you.
>> Is Allah a spirit or is he a physical being?
>> Perfect. So he said that Jesus said the question therefore did >> he say perfect? Did he did he has been listening to Kora?
Kora is getting really popular. I need to be more like her. Yeah.
>> Question is this. When Jeremiah says, >> "Answer the question."
>> He's not going to let me answer cuz he knows he didn't read Jeremiah. I told him, "Answer the question.
>> Before you go to bed last night, you should have read Jeremiah."
>> Is Allah a spirit or a physical being?
>> We listen. Listen. We are careful to what we say about Allah.
>> We don't just willy-nilly he's this, he's a man. He ate. We're very careful.
You know why? Cuz we're not irresponsible like you guys and do blasphemy. Jesus is that we're very careful to what we say about Allah. You know why? Cuz we take our religion seriously. So >> So what's the answer?
>> We don't say Allah is a spirit or phys.
We don't do that.
>> So which one? So what is it? cliche.
There is nothing like him.
>> WHAT DOES THAT MEAN, BRO? YOU'RE TELLING ME ALLAH is nothing.
>> Does anyone speak like you?
>> Thank you.
>> You're one he got me there.
>> OKAY. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, HE tells >> uh it was something like Avery said, "You're you're basically telling me Allah's nothing." And the guy said, "He's like you all." Something like that. So yeah, ladies and gentlemen, HE TELLS US THAT I GOT YOU. SO ALLAH is not spirit. He's not physical. SO WHAT THE HELL is he?
>> He got He helped me. He helped me.
>> What is that?
>> What is that?
>> Even Steve said that there's nothing like Oh, thank you. I appreciate it.
>> Oh, no, no, no. I get it. So Ali Dawa was saying, "There's nothing like Allah." And the guy the guy goes, "There's nothing like you, Ali Dawa."
So Allah is like Ali Dawa in that there's nothing like either one of them.
>> MY WIFE MY WIFE SAYS THAT TO ME. My wife says that every day.
>> There's nothing like a white on the white board.
>> I said you're down right.
>> He brought it up and said on the white board.
>> Now what does he now? We said very clearly what Allah says in the Quran. We affirm that for himself.
>> What does that mean?
>> I don't make stuff in my mind. So I look at the Quran. Quran says Allah says in English please say I'm translating is coming be patient say he is one >> one what one three one >> one what >> see look the basic questions destroy your soul >> he doesn't know what one is >> Allah is one one what one God one person one entity fingers what is he finger >> oh how many fingers he said HOW MANY FINGERS >> HOW MANY FINGERS >> SO WHAT IS ALLAH WHAT IS ALLAH?
>> LOOK, LOOK HOW MANY FIGURES ALLAH IS.
>> We got what is the Quran?
>> What is what's in Allah?
>> Look, check this out. Allah, he is self-sufficient.
>> He does not begget nor is he begotten.
>> And there is nothing like unto him.
>> What does that mean? Cuz you just said we're like Allah.
>> He's not normal. I'm speaking English.
English. I'm not speaking Turkish.
>> He said we're like Allah in one way, but we're not like Allah in another way. SO, IN WHAT WAY ARE we not like Allah?
>> Again, you believe God is a man and a fully man.
>> What is Allah, Ali? What is Allah? What is he?
>> You don't know. Huh? See, hey, look. And here's the problem.
>> Muslims don't know what Allah is. But look, they come they go to the Quran.
Just just one second. Just look in the Christian God, he tells us that God is spirit. So, we know that our God is immaterial. He doesn't. He can't tell us if his God is immaterial. He can't tell us if he's physical.
>> Check this out.
>> So, what is he? Go check this out. Oh, watch this. Now, watch this. Now, now he's going to need the father. Watch this.
>> What is it?
>> Now, watch this now. Is he spirit?
>> Huh?
>> Is he spirit?
>> Oh, we already answered that. What does Allah know?
>> Good. Good. Good. No. I said to you, I said to you, there was nothing like him.
>> No. No. That's not answering. We don't know.
>> Thank you. There it is. We don't know.
>> Spirit. Spirit.
>> I PROMISE YOU I'LL PROMISE YOU I'LL do this. One second. MOSES SAW HIS BACKSIDE.
>> I promise you I'll deal with you.
>> Moses saw his backside. What did he see?
What did he see?
>> But let's let's capitalize on this. No.
No. Watch this. Now, what did he see?
>> So, ladies and gentlemen, >> WHAT DID HE SEE?
>> ALI, I promise I'm going to deal with it. spirit is not physical. What did Moses see?
>> Ali, I'mma deal with you. I got you.
>> She's buying a physical IN A BAD PLACE.
>> SO, LOOK, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, >> she knows that ALL DISTRACTION. I love Jesus.
>> It's a distraction. It's a distraction.
>> He He's trying to start up a discussion with other people.
>> I LOVE JESUS. I DON'T KNOW.
>> My goodness. Ali Dawa. We don't know. Uh Allah's one. One what? We don't know. Is he Is he physical or spirit? We don't know. We don't know. We don't know.
There's just nothing like him. We don't know. We don't know. You guys have no business criticizing any position if this is your actual position, which is no position.
>> He's having you left and center. You put it on me because I love I love Jesus. I love it. He knows it. I love Jesus, sister. I believe in Jesus.
>> You know it. He knows it. He knows every Christian.
>> Amen.
>> I love Jesus. And believe Jesus.
>> He's the only way. That's right.
>> I'm not a Jew. That's right.
>> Listen, sister. Sister, the Jews are the ones that reject me.
Stop running from me, Ali.
>> Focus on me, Ali.
>> Now, can you see a spirit?
>> Let's deal with Let's deal with this.
>> Can you see your spirit?
>> Let me Let's deal with it.
>> So, watch this, guys. So, watch this.
Let me see.
>> Here we go.
>> When we talk about when we talk a Jew, I LOVE JESUS. DON'T LOVE JESUS. I LOVE JESUS.
>> FOCUS. FOCUS.
>> FOCUS. JEWS.
>> NOW, now he's trying to talk about Jews.
But the Jews, did you know the Jews and Jesus talking?
>> Focus. Talk to me. I'm not legit.
>> TALK TO ME.
>> Talk to me.
>> I'm legit.
>> Focus.
>> Yes. Focus. Spirit. Can you see?
>> So, hold on. We're going to deal with We're going to do what you said and we'll answer.
>> Notice Notice, by the way. So, so first of all, it it's already hugely suspect when he claims he can't talk with Avery in a focused way because that's just not what he's doing, right? He's he's doing his thumbnail and everything else. Well, first of all, they're they're stationed outside there presumably to do da'a, right? So if if somebody else had come up to the dawa table, the whole assumption is that he would have dropped what he's doing and he would engage them. Right.
>> Well, but now he's pretending no. But notice how much he's willing to engage this girl over here. Yeah.
>> Right. I'm not saying she couldn't take him. My point is just he he knows he's in trouble over here. So he's like, "Oh, I you know, it's not too much of a distraction for me now to talk to this girl over here if I can avoid Avery."
Right.
>> Yeah. And I mean, think about this. You got like the most popular Christian uh debater on the planet right now showing up. This should be YouTube gold. And all he wants to do is divert and try to try and uh talk to some other people in the crowd and now wants to talk about Jews. Okay. So, hey, look. Hey, Dre. Ali Dawa was generous enough to tell us.
>> I am one that was going to knock you out, right?
>> WHEN WHEN I ASKED HIM, >> when I asked him, look, he's trying.
>> He crapped himself. When I asked him, when I asked him, "What is Allah?" He said, "I don't know. We don't know."
>> Oh, we look even better. So, Muslims as a people, as a um they don't know what the heck their God is. So, therefore, how can you even tell me who God is when you don't know what he is? That's >> This is Now, it's reminding me of like Paul in Acts 17, the God you don't know, I'm here to proclaim to you.
don't know. We don't know.
>> Oh, we look even better. So, Muslims as a people, as a um they don't know what the heck their God is.
>> So, therefore, how can you even tell me who God is when you don't know what he is? That's the problem number one.
Number two, >> he asked, can you see a spirit? God has the ability to appear because he's spirit. He's not limited to physical reality, which means that God can appear visibly in a physical form even though he's not physical.
>> Interesting.
>> Your can your God do that?
>> Interesting.
>> Can your God appear in a physical form?
>> What did he say? What did he say? Let's see.
>> What did he say? Can your God appear?
>> Can your God appear in a physical form?
>> What did he say? He said God is a spirit and if he chooses, he can come in >> in a physical form.
>> Good.
>> Look, look, look, look carefully to his face.
>> Jesus is the way and the truth. Here you go. Look at this. Look at this. Look at this.
>> The way, the truth, and the life.
>> Amen. I believe that.
>> No, you don't. You don't believe that.
>> You don't believe that.
>> No. Now that shirt, >> you just commit a shirt.
>> Allah says he's the truth.
>> Allah says he's the truth. Ali.
>> What did what did he say?
>> He said, >> you can't say that a prophet is the truth.
>> Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. Nobody comes to the father except from him.
>> Do you believe that? You believe in his time? Yes.
>> Wait, what?
>> In his time? Yes. So you believe that somebody other than Jesus was the way, the truth, and the life. Nobody would come to the cross.
>> This is the Zacharik answer.
>> Yeah. And he doesn't realize. I mean, dude, Al Haj was was killed was killed for stepping out. He was a Sufi and he stepped out and said, "I am the truth."
And they executed him.
>> You can say this guy speaks speaks the truth or something like that. You can't say, "I am the truth." That's one of Allah's 99 names. You can't say that.
Um, and it's the same with the other. So Allah is the living and um, so Allah is the way, he's the truth, and he's the living or the living one. And Ali Dawa just said Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life.
>> At the time of Jesus.
>> Well, hold on. I'm wait. I'm confused.
>> It's news to him, brother. We believe this, man.
>> Ali, don't run away. Don't run away.
>> NO, I'M NOT.
>> SPIRIT OF GOD.
>> THE Quran says confused. The Quran says that Allah is the truth. And if if you believe in, you cannot apply the names of Allah to a creature. So do you believe that Jesus is the truth like Allah is?
>> Let me repeat again.
>> Yeah. Repeat that.
>> We as Muslims, we believe.
>> Uhhuh.
>> Jesus.
>> Yeah. So So there's nothing like Allah, but Allah is the truth and so is Jesus.
>> The way.
>> Uhhuh. The truth.
>> OH, HE BELIEVES JESUS IS TRUE. HE BELIEVE JESUS IS GOD. JOE. AMEN.
>> Thank you, Ali.
Ali now is clapping for himself calling Jesus God.
>> HEY LOOK, I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU HE'S OUR BROTHER. HEY ALI.
>> YEAH, I I'd clip that too if I dawa.
>> Yeah, I got to clip I got to clip the heck out of this later on.
>> Fantastic guys. Okay, it's like you know Christian it's like they will come and SAY ORANGE AND APPLE. WHOA. YEAH, JESUS IS GOOD. BROTHER, BROTHER.
>> HEY, AND A MUSLIM WOULD SAY, "ALHAMDULILLAH, >> ALHAMDULILLAHBARB."
>> If you've noticed, no one in the Muslim in the audience here shouting, "Brother, be be civilized."
>> That's because they're stuck like you.
>> HOW OLD ARE YOU?
>> Did you hear this? He's pointing out no Muslims are shouting and cheering, right? Cuz they know you're getting cooked, man.
>> How old are you?
>> The Muslims are counting on you to do, but you're failing. The Muslims are they wish that you had answers. I repeat again. None of the Muslims have answers.
They wish that you had answers, but you don't.
>> One second. One second now.
>> All right, I'm listening. Go ahead.
Spirit. Spirit. Spirit.
>> Jesus is the way, >> the truth.
>> Ah, Allahh.
>> Jesus is Allahh.
>> And nobody can come to the father but by through him at the time.
>> Did you catch that? Ali Dawa just called just called Allah father.
>> He's a fatherite. He's a fatherite.
>> What are you doing, man?
>> You definitely need one of those round.
>> Get out of my stuff. lock things for your door.
>> Huh? Yeah, I know.
>> Jesus, if I was there, I would accept this now.
>> Wow. So, you accept Jesus as God in this town. Beautiful. No. From whatever you make. Now, you said go.
>> Where's my rosary?
>> Uh, I don't know. I'll find it, man.
Okay.
>> Hey, what's up, Anthony?
>> Hey. Hey.
>> Stay away from >> That's what happens when That's what happens when people leave their doors unlocked. Yeah.
>> Rand random hobos just random Turkish hobos just walking.
>> Random street people. Yeah.
>> Spirit.
>> And you said he can also be physical.
>> He can also appear in physical form.
>> Perfect. Now we have to go.
>> Can Allah.
>> Let me finish. Let me finish. Let me finish. Let me finish. Okay. Okay.
>> In the book of Jeremiah when it says his power and his >> I need to make just a quick video about that just tomorrow. Just like the relevance of Muslims saying, "Oh yeah, Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life." And they're like, "Are you kidding me? You you're admitting that?"
>> Oh, was that in a physical sense or in a spiritual sense?
>> Spiritual.
>> So power, double power, double power.
>> He said spirit. No, he said spirit has no, you can't see. He said Jesus said FOR A SPIRIT. NOW HE'S SAYING IN THE SPIRIT FORM he had an arm.
>> Knock out.
>> That's that represents his power.
>> Knock out.
>> Can you Can you Can you refute me?
>> You know what kind of What's your reputation?
>> Stop recording.
>> What's What's your argument? He just said that God is a spirit.
>> Uhhuh.
>> And he said the example of Jesus SAID FOR A SPIRIT HAS WHAT?
>> No hands.
>> No hands. No feet.
>> This is all physical.
>> AND CHECK THIS OUT. Now I want I want you guys to rewind this and then he goes I'll go okay. Was he in the spiritual sense when he said he had an arm?
>> Spiritual. He said spiritual sol he's he's playing games here with >> he's just probably >> Yeah. I think he's deceiving himself like he doesn't even realize that he's he's doing it. You know this is apart from maliciousness, right? like he doesn't even have to be intending to deceive. He just can't think straight.
There's a difference between talking about God as spirit or some being as having a body and talking about a text of scripture as spiritual or not. Right?
I mean, so when it it he doesn't realize that the term spiritual in that case is a you're you're making a literary point, right?
It has a spiritual meaning.
A Avery's he's not saying it's a spiritual arm in the sense of like you know spirit is really a physical thing somehow but I don't know some special category of it. Anyways just Ali doesn't even know what he's talking about.
>> Yep.
>> Yeah. So guys Ali Ali's still going.
Okay. So you said um you said a spirit doesn't have hands uh you know body parts but the Old Testament talks about God having body parts. So do the math here. You're not making sense and not realize we just don't interpret this as meaning literal body parts like like because because they're anthropomorphous. They assume everyone else would be when they're reading this stuff.
>> It has an arm. It's not >> well it's more like because their position requires anthropomorphism therefore they think anyone else >> in their position would also and it just doesn't >> in fact yeah we we could fill this out like so I made the point that the vast majority of these things appear in poetic context where it's understood there are figures of speech idioms metaphors similes and so forth. Uh well, e even even if you discard that and you don't take into account the kind of genre that this sort of stuff is largely concentrated in, there are explicit dedactic statements that rule out interpreting these things in literal ways. So that for example, so in the Torah, the same Torah that talks about God delivering Israel, he keeps quoting Isaiah and Jeremiah, but they're picking this up from Moses. In the Song of the Sea in Isaiah 15 or Exodus 15, it mentions that God saved them with his right arm.
Well, it also says in that context, it says uh Jehovah or Yahweh is a man of war, right? So it's picturing God delivering Israel like a warrior. He's he's on the scene. He's fighting for Israel. He's defeating Pharaoh. And it mentions his outstretched arm. It also mentions his nose in that chapter. Well, later in the the same Torah written by the same Moses, he says that the Israelites are not to make any image of God. And then he points out, you've seen no form, right? He hasn't given you a form according to which you can make an image of him. So, this is given as one of the reasons why they're not to do this in the case of God. The the point being that these have to be metaphors when you take that into account. There are other statements in the Torah where it speaks of God as omnipresent and and so forth which precludes taking these things literally. But you don't get this in the Islamic sources. In the Islamic sources, it it doesn't it not only doesn't have these defeers, right, or walls or fences from interpreting it this way, it moves in the exact opposite direction. And it it it says things that can only be understood as literal human features or or body parts and don't make any sense without it.
>> Spiritual >> this is not physical.
>> You get vap this is not physical get >> this is not >> this is not physical. So so ladies and gentlemen this is where Ali Dawa is tripping up.
>> I already answered this. If God is if God if God is spirit if God is spirit he has the ability to appear in physical form but that doesn't mean that God in his essence is physical which he doesn't know whether his God is physical or spiritual. We know God is spiritual. So now when it talks about how God by his power and his outstretched arm redeemed Israel. This is by his power. It's expressing his power. Now what?
>> Have you have you guys have you have you guys seen that meme where he got >> man? You hit him, man. Goodness. You okay?
>> He said that God he said you Muslims don't know and we were proud. We don't see things about Allah don't know. He said God is speak.
>> But deal with what I said.
>> You better put this video up.
>> You're going to be up tonight.
>> You're going to need some milk.
>> Going to be up tonight.
>> Now check this out. Yeah. You're going to need some milk. Okay. Check this out.
He said God is spirit. And then he gave me evidence by Jesus saying for a spirit does not have arms.
>> Physical physical arms.
>> This is this is the point. This is the point. Unfortunately, it's almost over.
This is the point where Ali will just keep repeating what he said. This same thing last year, right? Like God Logic would refute me, but no, A TRIANGLE AND NOT A SQUARE. YEAH. And then God Logic would explain things. He go, "Yeah, but look, a triangle is not a square." He just keeps repeating himself. And now he's repeating himself. Oh, so God is a spirit and yet it also says he has body parts. Therefore, >> then he said, "Our God is a spirit." And I said in Jeremiah, when it says he has a arm, >> I said, "Was that spirit or physical?"
Cuz he said, >> And what did I say?
>> He said spirit.
>> Uhhuh.
>> So a spirit had an arm.
>> It's it's regarding his power. It's not an actual physical.
>> That's what I mean. That's what I mean by saying he's he's conf when when you use the word spiritual with respect to a text of scripture.
You're you're talking you're using the term spiritual to mean metaphorical basically.
>> Yeah. He thinks you're saying a spiritual arm a a physical spiritual arm and >> dumb dumb dumb dumb.
>> It's metaphorical for his power.
And the other thing they're doing is, oh, it can't be metaphorical for his power because it also says power and not realizing the Bible, we already pointed that the Bible does this over and over and over again.
>> It emphasizes. Do you know what? Do you know what it means? What it means to emphasize?
>> We're going to watch now. Watch this.
Now, >> it's emphasizing his power.
>> He's knocked out. So now what?
>> He's knocked out. Watch this. Now watch this. WATCH THIS. POWER.
>> WATCH THIS.
>> WHY DON'T YOU GET around this power?
>> The power of God. You have made the heavens and the EARTH BY YOUR GREAT POWER. STOP.
>> CONTINUE. NO, it doesn't stop there.
Continue. It doesn't stop there. Great power. And meaning AND OUTSTRETCHED POWER AND OUTSTRETCHED.
>> SO WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?
>> SO CAN I DO AND his outstretched arm?
It's his power.
>> Done.
>> So now NOW BE READY FOR ROUND TWO. CAN YOUR ARM ready for round two? YOU'RE FINISHED.
>> YOU'RE FINISHED. CAN YOUR GOD appear in physical form?
>> Finish. We ready to go round two.
>> Can he appear in physical form?
>> We're going to talk about Don't run away. Can your God appear before your spirit?
>> Can your God appear as before? You don't question. No, you got to answer the question. You got to answer your spirit.
You have to answer to your answer. Does divine simplicity apply to your goal? That's divine simplicity.
Ask him simplicity.
>> Look at this. He's going ask him about a divine simplicity. God logic. So this is this is the this is uh this is the end.
But he says ask him about divine simplicity. And and Avery says what's that? Because he knows he won't know >> to apply to his god.
Please ask him. Ask him. He wouldn't ask by the way so love the world HE GAVE whoever believed in him should not perish.
>> Amen. Now guys, >> I wish I wish shouting won an argument.
It doesn't sadly.
>> That's what you did.
>> Now last time he came, we didn't have the Japanese version.
>> Now we've got people flocking Islam in Japan.
>> You can cut this now.
>> And they can pray like Jesus.
>> They want to pray like Jesus.
>> You guys getting that? He's uh advertising. He's taking this opportunity to advertise for his prayer mats made in China. What's going on in China? Well, you've got his uh they've got the factory over there making the prayer mats in China and then paying taxes to the Chinese government which is keeping uh weaguer Muslims in concentration camps and in order to save a few pennies for Matts he's happy to fund the communist government of China.
>> Last time we supported the cause.
>> Oh, do you pray to your father?
>> Listen now.
>> Now, >> do you pray to the father?
>> Now we have a Japanese VERSION. WE ALL WANT TO PRAY TO THE FATHER.
>> ALHAMDULILLAH.
>> Pray to the father.
>> SUPPORT THE CAUSE. SUPPORT THE CAUSE.
>> HEBREW.
>> NO. JAPANESE.
>> HEBREW.
>> JAPANESE. I want a Hebrew.
>> 100 to 60 people to salah. Now, >> do you pray LIKE DO YOU PRAY LIKE JESUS?
>> He got destroyed. Now Jesus argument.
>> Do you pray like Jesus?
>> Now second. Wait, wait, wait. Do you pray like So you pray to the father?
>> Yes.
>> You pray to the father.
>> I lost your father.
>> Listen, listen, listen.
>> I'm listening. Do you pray to the father?
>> You got destroyed. Now the second argument you got destroyed. He already he already called Allah father.
>> No no no >> he's a father I think spirit has no answer. No, no. Divine simplicity. Does it apply to your goal?
>> What is divine simplicity? That's what I thought. Doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. From divine simplicity, does it apply to the >> What is it?
>> Does it apply to >> What is it? What is it?
>> Does it apply to the >> What is it? I can tell you. Does it apply to the >> What is the He knows the shake knows nothing about what he's talking about.
>> What is THE You don't even know what it is. He's done.
>> Oh, that was the end, guys. Yeah, Avery picked up on the fact that these guys uh learn uh they just learn to use terms, so they think they sound smart, but if you ask them what the heck they're talking about, they have no clue. They don't know what they're talking about.
So, does the vines What's that? I don't know.
>> Classic >> classic.
Oh, man. These are good times, man. Uh, fun times over there. Um, all right. Let's see.
Uh, let's take these last few super chats here. Creation was made through Jesus. He has arms. He has arms, right?
Break that down for them, Anthony.
>> Yeah. He didn't create when he had arms.
>> Yeah, guys. Um, so I hope I hope you're playing around.
Uh, yeah. So, all things were created through Jesus, right? the word. Um, then later on he became incarnate and when he was incarnate then he had arms as opposed to Allah who just always has those two right hands. I tagged you on X with what I was talking about. Um, you'll have to check that out later. Ali can't make things in his mind called Ali can't make things in his mind called thoughts. Yeah, I know. It's kind of tough work. Brother, I have doubts. What doubts, man? Uh, Ali has ADHD. Allah deficiency, hikma dysfunction. They all do. David Wood, keep your foot on their necks. Much love, my brother in Christ.
Oh yeah. Uh Bible says even Satan believes God is one and shakes. Satan doesn't commit the only unforgivable sin in Islam. Shaitan has a better chance of going to heaven than us. Kufur according to the Quran. Yet is weird. I mean Satan in the Quran turns out to be the only faithful Muslim, right? And he turns out to be our savior.
in Islam because Allah says he would destroy us if we didn't sin and Satan's the one who actually comes to our rescue. This just looks to me like a religion from Satan and Satan's kind of bragging about himself in it and he can't help bragging about himself. Ali D. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. Me brother make a good point. I should put that in the video. Just Ali Dawa saying it and then uh Zacharly brother make the good point. Hey, wait, wait. Ry's picture, is that uh from the sign behind Ali Dawa?
>> The the icon. Did you Did you see that?
>> What's that?
>> The the last super chat you just put up had an icon and it looked like one of the ladies from the I don't know.
>> Uh maybe.
>> Uh no, that's something else. Don't know what that is.
>> Well, inspired by.
>> Let's see. Ali, good momo puppy.
Hopefully he turns to Christ. Yeah, he needs to. Uh, greatest evangelists, one Ali Dawa, two, Billy Graham.
Uh, I thought that was the Warner behind you, David, when AP showed up. Chris and the Bobs have converted DA times three very recently. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I know.
There's like um Yeah, I know there's some some DA guys, some Speakers Corner Dawa guys who are now Christians and even like like they're now they're now Christians at Speakers Corner. That's cool. Ali Dawa is a father right now. Get daddied. Ali.
Oh, yeah. And we're going to see if we're going to see if we can convert him to the new cult of the Motherites. All right, guys. Well, that's what we wanted to get through. Um, thanks. Oh, thanks Jo. Thanks for joining, Anthony. You uh you've been studying this for a long, long time for uh your debates between uh Christians and Muslims on uh Trinity versus Tahed and so on. And these are just a bunch of the issues that can come up with taled. Uh any final thoughts before we uh close out here?
>> Uh one one thing I was thinking about is while we observe that these are figures of speech in the Bible there's an interesting book trying to remember what it's called but uh if I can remember maybe I'll point it out to people next time. But it it's talking about while it's the case that God antecedent to the incarnation doesn't have a body, he nevertheless can assume human form like Avery was talking about, right?
>> As he does as he does in the Old Testament.
>> Yeah. But even apart from that, it seems as though God delights to use expressions that seem, you know, mo more suited to a embodied being. And so what certain theologians have pointed out is it seems to be part of this trajectory pointing towards the incarnation. In other words, it's like God getting people familiar with this way of talking about him. And so uh it's not just the theophanes that anticipate it but even these >> metaphorical expressions uh because sometimes you know it it's you have to you know think through like in some places it's kind of jarring or you know what gives with the frequency here that kind of stuff. So anyways some of the the early fathers like Tertullian would say that uh at least the theophanes are like dress rehearsals. It's like it's like the Lord is trying on the clothes of his future incarnation. He's getting ready for the real act kind of thing.
And I would say the same thing is is I think true when it comes to these metaphorical expressions. It's it's getting us comfortable with speaking in this way.
>> Interesting. Interesting stuff. And so, uh, everyone, I just want to I my kind of takeaway is, uh, this is what's this is this is where we're at right now as far as if you go back 15, 20 years, Muslims love to come up, hey, your trinity doesn't make sense. Just go withhed. It makes so it makes it it's really easy to understand. And they're not telling people how hopelessly confusing uh, this is. And they would have a problem. Oh, your god, oh, your your your god walked around and your god did this and your god did that. And they're talking about Jesus and mocking Christianity. It's like your God is eternally like this this weird physical gremlin and you don't tell anyone that.
You don't tell people this. You don't tell people this at all when you're giving da because you know um you know people be like what you sound this sounds thoroughly pagan. This sounds absolutely pagan. And now we're getting to the point where people are making them admit what they really think. And you saw it right there. Allah has body parts. And they just wanted to flip it on us as if we're also anthropomorphites. So, weird weird weird wild times. Islam is thoroughly thoroughly pagan. Uh, last one. Islam is just one very long Candace Owens episode. That sounds about right. All right, guys. Well, I'll be back on in about 42 minutes with Thaddius. Um, he's updating us on the latest Sam drama. I know some people, why you why you in the drama? because I'm partly responsible for keeping this guy going for all these years cuz I kept trying to help him. Um, kept thinking he would make a breakthrough eventually. Um, and so when he's basically now when he's abusing everyone, I'm like, "Oh, well, I I actually had a hand in keeping him going all this time because I was trying to help him. So, it's kind of my problem, guys. It's kind of my problem. So, I've got to deal with it." Uh, uh, anything else? Uh, nope. That's about it. All right, guys. So, about uh a little over 40 minutes. I'll be on with Thaddius. He's going to take us through all the awesome awesome latest drama with Sam. It is not pretty. It's really, really bad. But see you all in a bit. Catch you next time.
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