Learned Too Late

Ajouté : 2026-05-13

[00:00:00]Heat. Heat.

[00:00:02][music] [music] [music] >> [music] >> This is Unpivot, the show for Excel and PowerBI fans and anyone who loves chatting about data. I'm Winn Hopkins.

[00:00:45]>> I'm Mark Proctor.

[00:00:47]>> I'm Sue Bae.

[00:00:49]>> I'm Jars Male.

[00:00:52]Good. High energy, folks.

[00:00:54]>> High energy. [laughter] >> He looks really confused.

[00:00:58]>> You did the whole intro again with high energy.

[00:01:00]>> Yeah, I've got that.

[00:01:02]>> Come on. High energy win. Let's go again.

[00:01:04]>> That was my high energy. That's as high as I get, Mark. [laughter] I'm excited. I' I've packed my suitcase.

[00:01:12]It's packed. Well, half packed.

[00:01:15]>> I'm heading back to the UK tomorrow, ready for uh the Global Excel Summit.

[00:01:19]I'm going to get there a week early just so I get a good line space in the queue to get in. Right. [laughter] That's what you have. It's like Wimbledon, right? I saw Giles doing a video of it last year and the queue seemed quite long outside. Was that all staged?

[00:01:33]>> It actually was. No, that was right. I did a little like high five along the queue. Uh it was there was a queue. You know, you know the exciting news about GES now, don't you? You've seen my post about it.

[00:01:47]>> Yeah. And um I'm Did I talk I I forget what I've spoken about in the last >> You haven't spoken about this >> too many podcasts. That's your problem.

[00:01:55]>> Yeah. Three weeks.

[00:01:57]>> I'm hosting with FA. So you get the Excel on the road dream team hosting the global XL summit.

[00:02:04]>> Wow.

[00:02:05]>> Yeah. Excellent. That is exciting.

[00:02:08][snorts] >> And where is the uh on the road at the moment? Are you still on the road or are you back home?

[00:02:14]>> We got back two days ago. Uh we were in Liverpool. We met up with Sha Mooney for those of you that know Shan. Um very good financial modeler. And now we're back. So we're back for a week. We're going to go to Countex to this joke is old now. But FA is going to support Mark. I'm going to try and put him off in this talk. Um good.

[00:02:35]>> Yeah. Should be fun.

[00:02:37]>> Can you hear me? All right. By the way, it's jumpy at my end, but you can hear me.

[00:02:42]>> Sounds good. Sounds good.

[00:02:45]Um, I'm gonna wait for Sue because Sue's got probably got the biggest update. So, Mark, any anything?

[00:02:52]>> Uh, so the as of last week, my we launched our new platform, the the training platform that I started in January.

[00:03:03]>> I planned was going to take me a month and on the 30th of April, I launched it to everyone. So, yeah, that's good days.

[00:03:13]There's some there's a few things I need to tweak here and there, change a few bits, but generally it's been wellreceived. It's going well.

[00:03:20]>> You pleased with it?

[00:03:22]>> I'm really pleased with it. There are the there's some things that at the start I was like, oh, there's no way there's I just you never think I just I don't something's not possible. And then as you go through I mean and even if I had have let's say it had have taken me a month, I'd have still have not thought about how to do it. But by having that extended time period, I can think about it some more. And stuff that I thought was impossible is now like that I've got that that's lit. That's that's working out. So yeah, um I'm I'm I'm really happy with it.

[00:03:54]>> Ah, that's good.

[00:03:56]>> That's a good thing. Worth taking the time. Yes, >> there is there is that concept of I keep hearing recently from various management books and spiel and other things that if you sort of set yourself an unrealistically short goal um it does actually sort of put things pressure on you to actually do it and if you do take twice as long as your short goal it's still probably half as long as if you said ah I'll do it by next year >> or I'll do it in 12 months time whereas if you do say, "Right, I'm going to do it in two months." It might take you four, but at least it's not taking you 12.

[00:04:33]>> Yeah.

[00:04:33]>> So, >> I don't know how much I don't know how much truth there is in it, but it seems to be anecdotally.

[00:04:40]>> I think it because it's all based on the Parkinson principle, >> which is yes, that you and I don't know if the Parkinson [laughter] principle is specifically related to time um or other things, but you effectively you always fill whatever you've got. So if you if you say it's going to take me six months then it will take you six months even if it's a five minute job. Uh so it's better to set shorter goals and then you've got more chance of if you you feel that so because otherwise you just you procrastinate for a lot less time before you get started because you've got less time.

[00:05:15]>> I definitely find that as soon as the pressure's on you get things done. I've had that like with course creation in particular when you're like I'll just do it at some point this year but then when you're like no I've got I've got a month you just get it done which is actually much less stressful for yourself because otherwise I don't know if if you find this those things just sit in your head oh I've not done it not done it yet that's not good >> there was one was it got put taken a bit far in the book I was reading um and they were sort of moaning about how JFK's goal of getting to the moon wasn't ambitious enough. Should should have done it in two years. It's like come on.

[00:05:56][laughter] Just come on.

[00:06:02]>> Yeah. They might have got there, but would they have got back?

[00:06:05]>> Yeah. [laughter] >> Define your requirements.

[00:06:10]>> Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And today I was going to say and today is also the start of my uh busiest period of the year because I said you remember when we set goals I was going to say no to more stuff.

[00:06:22]>> Unfortunately now is the um outflowing of all the stuff I said yes to before I said before I said no. So today I've got [laughter] I've got the uh so today's Thursday. I've doing Ken's uh Excel uh PowerBI Modern Excel meetup group. Next week I've got accountex. The week after that I've got my GES master class, the GES presentation, GES debate. The week after that I've got another GES master class. I've got my own master class for my own uh membership as well. So it is this this cloud of just presentation after presentation has been hanging over me for a long time and it all starts today.

[00:07:04]>> I know the feeling. Not that much though. But I always I always regret having agreed to do webinars and presentations. I'm always glad I've done them and I'm always happy when I you know after the fact I'm glad I've done it. But the day before I'm just thinking why did I agree to do this six months [laughter] ago because I just went I'll do it in six months time and that seems long enough away, right? And then you just six months comes around quicker than you think these days. It's like oh >> I've got one coming up for this um this community called Excel Off the Grid.

[00:07:35]That's not too many.

[00:07:37]>> June.

[00:07:39]>> It's June. Yeah. Yeah. June.

[00:07:40]>> June.

[00:07:41]>> That's not far though. June isn't far.

[00:07:43]It's only three or four weeks.

[00:07:46]>> I I have actually I've actually uh said no to one of them. I was going to >> one of the actual off the grid ones.

[00:07:53]Yeah. Dodgy dodgy. [laughter] >> Something else.

[00:07:56]>> Say no.

[00:08:01]>> Said no. Can't >> too much going on. So Sue, come on then.

[00:08:05]Put us out of our misery. Talk us through it.

[00:08:08]>> Double double marathons.

[00:08:10]>> Double marathons.

[00:08:11]>> Good.

[00:08:12]>> So, um, Boston was amazing. Absolutely amazing. It was the, um, it's the elites marathon. It's athletes. It's the mecca for marathons. And it was just everything that I expected and hoped and dreamed that it would be. Um, it was just fabulous. the course was, but the course was really tough and I knew it was going to be tough and I thought I'd trained hard enough for it and I thought I'd gone slow enough at the start but I hadn't and I didn't. And [laughter] so when I got to mile 23 24, my legs cramped up. Um, and there's this lovely picture on Facebook. There was this woman with a salt stick thing jigging up and down. And uh, so they gave me some salt salt tabs and uh, I was able to finish.

[00:08:58]>> Um, I was hoping for 350, but I got 359.

[00:09:04]Um, >> that's a better time. That is a way better time. 359 is just taking the mickey really.

[00:09:10]Yeah.

[00:09:13]>> But I Yeah, I I qualified for Boston. I finished Boston and I finished it with a qualifying time. And um a big shout out to Woolseie College and Tony Depa who I think is one of our listeners who who connected with me before and the energy was just absolutely unbelievable. So um I I really want to run it again. Boston was amazing at the best time.

[00:09:41]>> How do you how do you keep going like 24 miles? I know it's like it's tough to give up once you've gone that far, right?

[00:09:48]>> Yeah.

[00:09:49]>> But what but physically?

[00:09:52]>> Oh, wait till you wait till you hear about London.

[00:09:54]>> Can you actually just go? Can you can your legs you can just force another >> somehow your brain just goes right go on. My you can do your body can do more than your brain will let you because your brain is trying to protect you but your cut off for your brain is far safer than what your body can actually do. And um and you can't you know people give their eye teeth to to run Boston. So you you are respectful of that and um and also people died watching and completing Boston. So you're uberly respectful of that. And um I was sort of walking running walking running towards the finish and the crowd were just they were come on you can do you can do it you can do it and I know come on Sue and then when I started running they were just going wild and you know they carry you through to the end and it's just the most magical feeling but you train hard so that almost in a way your body's on autopilot >> and it it got you through to the finish.

[00:11:00]So, um, so it was just it was, you know, probably one of the best experiences I've ever had running Boston. Loved it.

[00:11:09]Absolutely loved it.

[00:11:11]>> Um, London six days later.

[00:11:15][laughter] So, I I flew back um, came home, sea swimming, took it really easy, rested, but I was going into London and my left hamstring was hurting a little bit. But again, 1.3 billion people entered the ballot. And so if you're lucky enough, I got a good for age place, you you respect the for me anyway personally, I really respect the fact that so many people would give their eye teeth to run. Um so you you you do whatever you can do because you're privileged enough to have a place to be able to run. Um so I went out slowish, took my time, aiming for a sub4. Uh my hamstring went at mile 10 11. Um but the good thing about London is it's the people's marathon and half of the people running it is probably their first marathon. Um so they have medications every two miles. But it is like being on the M25 with a whole load of newly qualified drivers that are just cam kamicazi. So, you know, there's there's an aid station and they cut you up to get to the aid station. People were tripping over. Um, but the medic got my hamstring. Um, she got the knot out so I could carry on. And then I fell over at mile 20. I don't know if I tripped over a speed bump or somebody else or something and bashed my head. Um, so I ended up in the medical tent for 40 50 minutes where they just made sure I wasn't concussed.

[00:12:53]Blood [laughter] pouring down and uh and again, you know, the the the doctor was brilliant. She, you know, I saw the first aer then the paramedic, then the doctor, and I just said to her, "Look, you know, I'm fine. You know, I I'm used to running. I, you know, running a marathon isn't really a, you know, a new thing for me. I'm perfectly capable physically wise of of of running it and you just go into the zone and you've trained so hard that you um that you you just do what your body's used to doing.

[00:13:25]It just goes into autopilot.

[00:13:28]Um and I I did finish, but I finished with 452.

[00:13:32]Um, but I was just thrilled to bits to finish. And uh, you know, the feeling when you cross the line when it's been a challenge is is just out of this world.

[00:13:44]Well, the finish when you cross the line of any marathon is out of this world.

[00:13:47]Um, but the crowds were fabulous. It was a very very different experience to Boston in in many ways. And uh it you know you just and um my poor son came with me and he couldn't get to see me because it was just so busy he couldn't get on the tubes. U we had the Cornish flag flying and every time I saw the Cornish flag it gave me a boost and uh so it was um I'm so thrilled that I did it. But you you don't stop because you just you know how many people would love to be able to do that and you respect that and you respect and the crowd as well are just fabulous wishing you on.

[00:14:30]So yeah, >> brilliant.

[00:14:31]>> But I I was broken. I did finish.

[00:14:35][laughter] I was for the first week I didn't know, you know, I just slept. I didn't even go to yoga because I couldn't bend. Um but I wouldn't see swimming every day. So, uh, I'm nearly there now.

[00:14:48]>> Yeah.

[00:14:49]>> But is it like what's the what's the sort of the overriding emotion? Is is it relief or pride when you finish something like that? What's what's the initial immediate emotion that hits you?

[00:15:02]>> Oh, just [clears throat] it's almost ex ecstasy. You're just so thrilled that I mean, you know, Charles, you've done some some amazing challenges. You're just so pleased to finish. you are in, you know, there is just such a whoo of an adrenaline and that you've done it and you know you just just because it's it's you know something like a marathon or comrades or you know Iron Man you train for months and months to you know for that one thing and and then to achieve it it it's just this absolute feeling of complete pleasure and joy in that in that you've done it. You know, all these mornings where you've been up before anyone else or you've not gone out boozing or or whatever you've done, you've done it and and no one can take that away from you ever. You you've done that. And um >> and then and then you promise yourself you'll never do one again and two days later you've signed up for another one.

[00:16:04]>> Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've got loads.

[00:16:06]Well, on the way to London, um I've booked to do Athens, go with some friends to run Athens marathon and then um Comrades hopefully next year. So, um but it >> I imagine the feeling is a bit like writing a really complicated lambda and getting it to work first time.

[00:16:24]>> Yeah, that's what that's what I'm imagining. [laughter] Got to be the same.

[00:16:29]>> Yeah, it is.

[00:16:33]>> It is. It's just you see people's faces when they cross over the the finishing line of anything like that and they're just >> just complete joy in you know you the last you the last mile or two you're like why have I done this what type of life choice have made me do this I'm never doing it again ever this is just ridiculous and then you cross the finish line you go right next one [laughter] it's just it's just silly but it's >> I did I did post a couple of unpivot um messages that were meant to come up or potentially come up on the big screen. I don't know if they did, but >> they didn't, but I saw them afterwards.

[00:17:11]So, thank you. Thank you. It was nice.

[00:17:13]And you do think when you are when you are running or do anything like that, you know, it is a mental game more than anything. You you train your body to to just go into autopilot, but it's it's your brain that wants you to stop. So, you have to think of things. So I I one of my things that I do is I go through the the people in that I know are cheering me on and supporting me at home and screaming at me apparently at Boston at home screaming because it was near four. So come on and then >> the last minute to go and stuff. Geez.

[00:17:48]>> Yeah. Yeah. Brilliant.

[00:17:50]>> I didn't know I was just trying to get to the finish line. Uh but yeah, so it was brilliant. So thank you for all your support. really appreciate it.

[00:17:59]>> Well done. Very proud of you, Sue. Great effort.

[00:18:01]>> Thank you. Thank you.

[00:18:02]>> Great. Great effort. Have a deserved rest.

[00:18:06]>> Have a deserved rest.

[00:18:08]>> Oh, no. I've got Plymouth half a week Sunday. And then I've got DD, which is Dartmore Discovery, three weeks after that, which is an ultra that I absolutely love. It's running around Dartmore up and down hills, but no time pressure. It's although I did get second female in my age category last year.

[00:18:28]So, but we'll see. Just going to enjoy it.

[00:18:31]>> It's impressive. And I'm sure in between that, you've been prepping for our big debate, the global XL summit, you know.

[00:18:38]>> Yes. Although Miles has got me in a in a panic.

[00:18:43]>> Your Miles Miles. Yeah.

[00:18:45]>> Why? What's Miles said?

[00:18:47]>> He said that you're going to be doing it rapping and things like that.

[00:18:52]>> Did he?

[00:18:54]>> Yeah. [laughter] We we're not all rapping. I thought that was part of the the mandate.

[00:19:01]>> No, [laughter] and it's a bit like you were saying with the president. I thought why have I decided why have I said yes to saying how good PowerBI is in a room full of Excel?

[00:19:17]>> Yeah, there is that.

[00:19:19]>> Yeah, it's a great move.

[00:19:21]>> Yeah, Mark, we should definitely start prepping. We should 100% start prepping for this [laughter] >> when because it's so it's on the Wednesday at like >> four o'clock or something >> something like that.

[00:19:32]>> So if we get together say 3:55 Charles take us a couple of minutes just to >> yeah just just to smash them >> just just ask co-pilot five minutes before and we'll get the answers and the slides we'll get it all.

[00:19:46]>> Fact we can probably get to create an an AI bot an avatar and just do the talk.

[00:19:51]Well, just do it while in the lift going up, you know, to the presentation like Microsoft said you can do.

[00:19:59]>> So, there you go. There's your challenge. [snorts] >> Just do it in the >> I I might create an agent that all it does is trash Power PowerBI in favor of Excel. [laughter] >> Love it.

[00:20:10]>> Yeah. I mean, that's a good idea.

[00:20:12]>> Good.

[00:20:13]>> Think about how many talks you've got signed up to prep for, Mark, before you.

[00:20:17]>> Well, the agent will be easier than me having to actually prepare. So, um, [laughter] >> any got a rough rough plan, haven't we?

[00:20:30]>> Yeah. Very rough.

[00:20:32]>> He said yes. Ted said no.

[00:20:35]>> Yes.

[00:20:36]>> No.

[00:20:36]>> That was actually quite hard to do. Yes.

[00:20:38][laughter] >> I've realized I got to I've got to trim about not on my my session I'm doing.

[00:20:44]So, Mark's doing a session in the morning and then I'm doing a session straight after him, I think, just before lunch. And I realized I got to trim about five to 10 minutes off my session.

[00:20:54]So it's going to be >> I mean you might overun [laughter] gold I got to take out of that. I tell you absolute gold.

[00:21:04]>> So >> day two is a bit of an unpivot heavy blitz, isn't it? It's like is it mark then win then a break then unpivot?

[00:21:13]>> Love it.

[00:21:14]>> That's to stop us going out the night before. [laughter] It won't it won't stop us. It won't stop.

[00:21:19]>> It'sn't it Charles's birthday on the Tuesday.

[00:21:24]>> The first day of the conference is my birthday.

[00:21:28]>> Um just just all I'm going to say is make sure you're sat down for the very start of day one.

[00:21:36]Just make sure you're there.

[00:21:38]>> That always just fills me with dread.

[00:21:40][laughter] What's he going to do now?

[00:21:44]>> I think we can probably guess to be honest. You you might be able to guess.

[00:21:48]>> Yeah.

[00:21:49]>> Um are you are you a chocolate biscuit fan?

[00:21:56]>> Why does that >> have you ever had a tin? [laughter] Have you ever had a Tim?

[00:22:01]>> You're a Tim?

[00:22:02]>> Oh yes I have. When I went to a Oh, who gave this to me? Somebody gave me uh it was it was one of our members Katrina and Gungjan and Yun. gave me like a box of different tint tams >> as as treat.

[00:22:15]>> I'm not going to straight to a box, but I'll bring you a packet for your birthday. Right.

[00:22:18]>> Thank you very much. They were >> Now I'm intrigued. So I have to have these.

[00:22:23]>> Think of a penguin, but better.

[00:22:25]>> Oh, do you know I haven't had a penguin?

[00:22:28]>> Penguin versus come to be.

[00:22:30]>> Yeah.

[00:22:32]>> Very good. Love them.

[00:22:33]>> He won't he won't share. So can you bring me one, please?

[00:22:37]>> Sure. I would share. I think I think I'll share.

[00:22:42]>> Will you share? Would you share your Tim Tams?

[00:22:45]>> Yeah, in in principle I would. You have to find me first in principle.

[00:22:49][laughter] If you can find me is are there any tips for people attending like me for the global summit and Sue first time? You you ever been before Sue? I'm a first timer. Okay.

[00:23:04]>> Any tips? I think the networking event.

[00:23:06]So, make sure you hang around for obviously be there at the start of day one. Very important.

[00:23:11]>> Start day one and there >> and then the net they if it's the same there's usually like good networking opportunities at the end of the day.

[00:23:18]There'll be a couple of hours at least I would think uh where people just go upstairs and and kind of socialize.

[00:23:25]That's really worth it. And then um yeah, there'll be groups of people going for drinks and stuff afterwards I would think across the two days. So, so yeah, lots of chance to go and chat to people.

[00:23:37]>> Brilliant.

[00:23:37]>> I think you just need you just need to be confident with the phrase, do you mind if I join you guys?

[00:23:45]>> Almost any group of people. Do you mind?

[00:23:46]Because no, no one's going to say no to that, are they? Do you mind if I join you guys? And even if you got no idea what they're talking about, I mean, you probably got a reasonable chance because it's probably accelerated, but then [laughter] you can link it into a into a conversation. So just just have a few phrases that you can use to join almost you know a group. Um and then because most people are going to be there without somebody else that they know is my guess. Uh you know us us Excel users tend to be quite you know solo animals.

[00:24:20]We uh [laughter] >> try the data conferences then they're a bit bit more >> lively >> if you're if you're in a group chatting away then you see somebody on the fringes welcome them in >> you know all that sort of stuff it all helps >> I like people that do that it's good >> and if you are listening and we don't know you then come and say hello to us because >> we know names but you don't necessarily know the faces.

[00:24:51]>> Yeah, >> I find >> got stickers. I've got stickers. More stickers. Have you got stickers?

[00:24:56]>> Oh, yeah.

[00:24:58]And >> I think as previous as previous episodes have shown, so we don't always know people's names either. You know, we [laughter] we we've we've kind of glanced over them on LinkedIn or somewhere else, but the pronunciation we've got no idea. So I think you know if you even if you say your name and we look blank it's probably because we pronounce it Marlay uh we give it give it you know more exotic flavor with how you know that's how we like to work with with names. This this week I've had three occurrences of seeing people out of context >> just like just had that stare at them when they say hi win and I'm just looking at them for [laughter] too long >> before then realizing you know I used to work with them for a year or you know whatever it's like yeah so >> again no offense to anybody especially if you I know you from LinkedIn >> and like I've only know you from your little thumbnail image >> not a chat right so just say hello >> and if You haven't got your glasses on.

[00:26:01][laughter] >> Yeah. Or that too.

[00:26:04]So, >> or had a glass of wine, >> please. [laughter] Come and say hello.

[00:26:09]>> I'm convinced that that if you went up to anybody like anyone in the street, if you greeted them with enough gusto, >> that they would decide that they had forgotten you uh and that they would talk to you regardless. Um, >> and and therefore I think you can you can you can employ I mean if you want to have some fun you can just go up to anyone go oh I when when did I last see you and the person's thinking any idea who you are so you have some fun see how many people you can convince that you know even though you don't >> call good game [laughter] >> um what else is happening what other news what have we got anything cropping up any any stuff.

[00:26:56]>> Do you see the I don't think we discussed this last time, the the anthropic U-turn on the on the clawed code front. So, >> no, >> because they got their various price plans and then the $20 price plan they removed, I think, clawed code when previously it had been there um as a feature and then there was a whole load of outrage and then they quite quickly put it back.

[00:27:27]>> Interesting. I missed that point >> because I think the Yeah, I think that was their first first move to kind of be like this is costing too much. We need to do something about this.

[00:27:39]>> You posted about that, didn't you?

[00:27:41]>> Yeah. And then the the other piece of news I saw and I think this is reason Apple have been sued or agreed to pay I can't remember how many hundreds of millions I think to people who bought iPhone 15s between a certain date because they advertised that they would have AI features uh which just never came. So they missold everyone on these on this I think improved Siri.

[00:28:12]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:28:13]>> But but actually the >> never got switched on did it?

[00:28:15]>> It never it never even it's not there now. So I think iPhone 15 it was advertised as like new AI features.

[00:28:22]>> Yeah.

[00:28:22]>> And then by iPhone 16 they was like don't mention the don't mention the AI features.

[00:28:28]>> So that so I think even now those features don't exist but but people were sold on the fact that the iPhone 15 had these new features. So there was they they settled out of court with a with a group uh a group claim and are paying it's like 200 million dollars or something everyone bought these iPhones between certain dates.

[00:28:49]>> Wow.

[00:28:50]>> I think that's the image though. So if you're hoping for a little a little windfall, I think you probably you might be in the wrong country.

[00:28:55]>> Yeah.

[00:28:56]>> Yeah. [laughter] I think I read something about them maybe just granting or making Apple will then sort of just basically have a pick a company or maybe able to toggle between who you want Siri to use. So Siri could use Claude or Siri could use chat GPT in the background and then sort of you know the the AI companies basically license it through Apple through Siri. So that you know interesting model, lots lots of users, lots of use for that. So yeah, >> I don't think this is new news, but that that's kind of where Copilot is now as well. uh where it's kind of leaning on multiple LLM [snorts] models and and is I need to look back at it, but it's quite interesting when you look at your options where it's almost saying like it's going to it's going to use you know GPT for this but then cop uh Claude's model will be the kind of reviewer. Um and I love that like if if they can really nail that and it works to me that's that's a huge plus for Copilot.

[00:30:01]Um which >> how is it going to maintain data security if it's using I well >> I think that's still the challenge, isn't it? Especially with Claude. I don't quite understand how it works because Claude's data centers are US-based as well. Um I >> the models are running though on Azure servers >> in the micros in your Microsoft tenant.

[00:30:23]So that's how they're >> okay >> ring defenset. And I'm talking as if I know what I'm talking about. I don't really >> but I think they're running on those servers in the US rather than in >> data sovereignty stuff.

[00:30:37]>> Yeah. So like >> I'm not sure if it's part of GDPR or other >> legislations and if you're in Europe where data can't leave Europe and various other things. So there's there's a whole load of issues there.

[00:30:50]>> Did anyone hear about the um >> I think it I'll get the name wrong. Euro office. Anyone hear about this? So effectively the so the French government and possibly other countries decided that that there's currently too much reliance on US software. So they've now they've now created an open-source version of office uh which is compatible with like you know the standard files. uh it's an open source version of office that the I think the the French government I believe are moving everyone onto this open source version of office that they themselves have been part of building so that they can stop reliance on US software companies. Now I don't know whether this is a response to the political situation or other things but um yeah so there's a and I think you can just I think you can just download this version from GitHub or somewhere and then you can install it. So there's kind of a an anti-US software movement which is which is starting.

[00:32:00]>> Is it any good? Has anyone tried it? I'm guessing and I don't so I I looked down the features you know it it it's generally like a it is your basic Excel so it hasn't got power query it hasn't got any of the other things that that you would that now make excel kind of a standout product um so there is so my guess is it's reasonable because there's been open source versions of office before like >> Libra libra >> yeah it's um I've just Googled it, looked it up. It's digital sovereign sovereigntity and uh they're moving from Windows to Linux.

[00:32:42]>> Okay. Fully open source. There we go.

[00:32:47]Maybe Excel is dead. Oh no.

[00:32:50]>> Oh god. I saw another one. I saw another one this morning. I I nearly bit today.

[00:32:55]>> Oh dear. Um >> wind bit on one the other day. There was one I think. Did you post yesterday?

[00:33:02]Someone >> Yeah, someone post about Excel.

[00:33:04]>> Yes, that's what I saw. But and it was a founder of a AI company, wasn't it? And I just thought >> AI spreadsheet.

[00:33:12][laughter] >> Surprise, surprise.

[00:33:16]>> There we go.

[00:33:17]>> So I and I I took a screenshot and commented so in in a lame attempt not to give them any coverage by commenting on their post. Pathetic. [laughter] >> It's not pathetic. It's great. Do more.

[00:33:30]>> Yeah, I [clears throat] love it.

[00:33:32]on my time to be honest. But yeah, [snorts] >> every every Excel competitor posts Excel is dead about six months before they run out of funding. That's that's pretty much the [laughter] that's pretty much the workflow, isn't it?

[00:33:45]>> Paul um Paul Barnhurst texts me two days ago saying a bit. He's like, Charles, I bit on LinkedIn. [laughter] I knew what I knew how I'd feel afterwards. I knew what would happen, but I bit.

[00:34:01]like coming off the wagon, isn't it? Or >> I Well, I I still I lasted two months at the beginning of this year. Two whole months. Didn't wind once, didn't bite, didn't moan. Um, but that that ended.

[00:34:13]Um, bit of news. I was when I was in Manchester, FA and I spoke to students at Manchester Uni.

[00:34:19]>> Uh, so we kind of showcased Excel esports and talk to them about AI and stuff. It was very interesting to us that almost none of them used Excel at all. There was no training on Excel.

[00:34:32]They had a little bit of coding training, I think, in R. Um, and they they just thought Excel was like this bizarre thing that sat somewhere on the side and wasn't of any use to them. Um, so that was quite interesting.

[00:34:47]>> What were they doing?

[00:34:49]They had a qu it was a mixture of but but they the the kind of thing that drew them together in that room was they had a quance part of their course.

[00:34:57]Interestingly the university's given everybody co-pilot licenses >> and zero training. [snorts] >> Sounds about >> they don't use it.

[00:35:10]>> They don't use it.

[00:35:12]>> They don't know how to.

[00:35:14]>> Yeah.

[00:35:14]>> But they get teach them. Can't they teach me how to use you?

[00:35:19]>> I think I think it'd be the last place I'd go to get taught co-pilot. But I just find it fascinating that license money is thrown at the licenses.

[00:35:28]>> Yeah.

[00:35:29]>> And at no point is any probably how to use this.

[00:35:34]Um it's I mean it's it's not much per license. What is it like uh 1015 pounds in on top of your Microsoft >> a lot for for stu students?

[00:35:47]>> Yeah. What's I I had to add it to my own um $30 US for the proper one for if you're paying full whack.

[00:35:56]>> I thought okay I thought it was less than that for as part of an enterprise license. Maybe I'm wrong.

[00:36:02]>> Um anyway, it's going to add up, isn't it? across an entire university.

[00:36:07]>> And no, no training.

[00:36:10]>> It just it baffles me. But there you go.

[00:36:12]>> I was thinking you don't need training.

[00:36:14]Don't need training in Excel or anything. You just need co-pilot.

[00:36:17]>> Just need co-pilot.

[00:36:19]>> Co-pilot. And just like Hank, just press a button and your your pizza business is sorted.

[00:36:26]>> Yeah. [laughter] Some some good content I saw on LinkedIn was from a an M Proctor um talking of power query secrets which was great little gems in that video. Lots of things especially the missing fields ignore one which I did not know about at all.

[00:36:45]>> So that you know you can just basically >> render a field to appear >> even if it's not there in the source data. So >> very good. I need to >> watch the past. I'd always I'd always use missing field. ignore which ignores the fact that a column doesn't exist.

[00:37:01]But but then it just rolls on to the next column and the next one the next one. And if you use missing field use null, it creates a null column and it then forces it to be there because you then want it for your ongoing calculations.

[00:37:13]>> Now the now the sneaky tip in there was the fact that the so for uh table.transform transform column types I think it is there there wasn't a missing field ignore the last argument is culture >> but they've changed it so in that record if you put a in the culture argument if you put a record that starts missing field it will it will change your missing field property in the culture argument and that was introduced in May 2000 2025 >> how did you find that >> uh so so what so I' I've I've got MCO course which some one of my members said, "Hey, I think you need to update for this." And I'm like, "Update for what?" And then he told me and I was like, "Where did you even find this out?" So Melissa Decort posted something on the PowerBI forum when it first came out and and that was the even when I Googled it, that was the only thing that came up. So, it's all thanks to Melissa that this >> PowerBI that we've discovered this sneaky little uh feature that that just kind of out in the background.

[00:38:21]>> Um, but it's interesting the fact they decided not to change the function signature. Instead, they decided to force >> it in field into the culture argument, which is a >> bizarre choice.

[00:38:36]It's kind of a it's you know it's one of those things that you know as time goes on that you know the developers have kind of gone we really should have put this argument in but [laughter] rather kind of rather than trying to fix it properly they've just forced it into a very strange argument in a very happy way which then means that people like me can go hey fantastic power query secrets tips uh which really they should be the things that are visible for everyone to see. Um to be fair it it is in the documentation now but um yeah it's a it's a it's a strange decision. A a hidden thing that kills me every time is uh power query split to columns >> or split and then under advanced is split to rows.

[00:39:21][laughter] >> Annoys me every single time I have to click. It's not advanced. It's really useful.

[00:39:31]>> Why hide it under a drop? It blows my mind.

[00:39:36]I've >> complained numerous times, but nothing's happened.

[00:39:39]I do find some of the some of the Power Query um dialog boxes. So, for example, when you go to append or merge or something, you go to you have your basic one that just lets you select two and then you go to advanced. And advanced isn't difficult. It's just got like two PES and you move them between them. Like you could you could have just had advanced skipped out on that whole option. You didn't need to have this this basic level which is, >> you know, it it just hi it hides things that that don't need to be hidden because they're not >> the same as um group by.

[00:40:14]Group by [snorts] is exactly the same.

[00:40:16]If you press advance, you get more options in a bigger box which is much more user friendly.

[00:40:21]>> It's common thread there, isn't there?

[00:40:23]All of these why why did they design it like that? like they they they wrapped things up that are so useful in multi-layers of clicks.

[00:40:33]It just it's what what was the click tax? Click tax.

[00:40:37]>> Oh, wait. You try the visuals.

[00:40:39]>> I think the idea is that they don't want to scare newcomers.

[00:40:46]>> So, if you put too many buttons in front of and options in front of somebody the first time they see a screen, it therefore isn't a nice experience and people don't buy into it. So therefore you put it under drop downs for more advanced less common options.

[00:41:02]>> But there should be a all these bits all of Excel and everything should have a I'm confident user now click a button and all the settings change to a a confident user.

[00:41:12]>> It would be so good. Oh >> yeah.

[00:41:15]>> Also they're worried about new users getting scared whilst at the same time not promoting the thing at all. So, there aren't really any new users, but they'll yap yap on about co-pilot left, right, and center without any concerns.

[00:41:31]>> Anyway, >> I wonder if some of it is also um like ego massaging because when you click that advance button, you're like you're patting yourself on the back. Go, yeah, I'm an advanced user now.

[00:41:42][clears throat] >> I've got it.

[00:41:42]>> I don't I don't need these basic options. I am advanc >> advanced button clicker.

[00:41:48]>> That's me. It just it just it confirms your greatness every single time you click it.

[00:41:53]>> Maybe the first couple of times, but then after it's just irritating.

[00:41:57][laughter] >> Yeah.

[00:41:59]>> Well, it was community feedback that got the um I think it's in PowerBI and I don't think it's in Excel yet. The um ignore uh the insert step warning.

[00:42:12]>> Yes. Yeah.

[00:42:13]>> Is that in Excel Power Query? So basically in PowerBI you can you know if you insert a step you get a warning do you want to insert a step >> um but in PowerBI there's an option that pops up says do you want to ignore this warning in the future >> go yes >> yes >> and then you never get that warning >> I I keep it on because I'm you know I just want to get caught out basically I'm not inserting steps that often but you know handy for those people who got annoyed by it so who am I to you know >> disavow that um at the end of near the end of last episode I think It was I was about to say something about data flow gen two and then I stopped myself because I wasn't sure whether it was NDA or not.

[00:42:53]>> Yes, >> if you cast your mind back to that not NDA. So I'm going to say uh nice little feature in Power Query DataFlow Gen 2 uh rightclick preview only feature. So in the applied steps, you know, sometimes you put a filter on, you've gone back into a query and you put a filter and you then have to type in delete this filter.

[00:43:15]hashtag. Yeah.

[00:43:17]>> So, all you have to do, right click, uh, apply in preview screen only. So, that step then goes itallic and, uh, it won't actually affect the loaded data.

[00:43:28]>> Ah, nice. I like that.

[00:43:30]>> Which is quite a nice little thing. So, you know, because I'm often doing that and then I I leave the filter in there by mistake, load it, wonder my report's wrong.

[00:43:39]>> Yeah.

[00:43:40]>> You're like, why is there only two rows in this? You filtered it back. You go delete filter.

[00:43:47]>> Uh I I've got a little tip that you I guarantee Mark knows this because every time I say anything, Mark did a video on it three months ago, but I didn't know this.

[00:43:56]>> I was doing I was doing a No, I love it.

[00:43:59]I actually love it. Um, I did a power query in dynamic array boot camp recently and one of the frustrations for me when you do multiple queries in the editor and then I was always going through the step of like you have to kind of click close and load to connection only to make sure and and one of the members was like you do know you can just change the default to connection only.

[00:44:22]>> I was like oh [sighs and gasps] how have I got this far through and not figured that one out. [laughter] marketing shock.

[00:44:31]>> No, I I've got a blog post from about a decade ago that goes through that. So, [laughter] yeah.

[00:44:38]>> Shocking. Shocking.

[00:44:40]>> Oh. Um, >> you don't know what you don't know, do you?

[00:44:42]>> No.

[00:44:43]>> No. Uh, my colleague Luke, who is very good at financial modeling, um, I was showing him some stuff the other day.

[00:44:50]Well, showing everybody some stuff the other day at in the office. We do like a little lunch and learn type thing internally. Um, and as part of the demo thing I was doing, I just copied a sheet by holding control drag and he went and I was halfway through the next thing I was and he said, "How did you copy that sheet? [laughter] Control control drag." And he was like, "Oh, I'll be quiet." [laughter] >> I didn't know that. Control drag.

[00:45:18]>> I know you don't. You just take you take for granted what you know. And also >> when you can do it, >> your brain can only retain so much or my brain can only retain so much. And if I don't use something for a while, then it's like I think I remember how to do that, but I can't remember exactly.

[00:45:35]>> Totally.

[00:45:36]>> I I remember the first time. So when when in Excel, when you start typing a function and you get the little tool tip that comes up underneath that tells you what the arguments are.

[00:45:44]>> Yeah.

[00:45:45]>> And then you can >> And I just I never really thought about it. It was just one of those sometimes it would get in the way and you're like, "Oh, you're in the way." Um, >> the first time I saw somebody just drag the edge of it and just move it [laughter] elsewhere. I was like, >> it was like, I cannot believe for the last 20 years I've just been like, "This thing is so annoying. It's in the way and you can just click it and drag it somewhere else."

[00:46:11]>> And then they [clears throat] went on and clicked the arguments and moved through the function.

[00:46:15]>> I was just about to say that. H how did how was this not it was my my literally it was the same reaction I've got got now my jaw hit the floor and I'm like no way I I know nothing about this program [snorts] >> that second one that you see a lot of the esports players doing it because quite a lot of them are doing like huge lets and lambdas and it's like you Mark the first time I saw I think it was Jean Wally click on one of the syntax descriptions in the tool tip and I was like oh my god and It just highlights that portion of the formula like >> that is insane.

[00:46:52]>> Loved it.

[00:46:53]>> Brilliant.

[00:46:55]>> Oh, shout out Yanko Peter's um spill manager.

[00:47:00]>> He's given it for free on his website.

[00:47:01]So, this basically formats your spilling range.

[00:47:06]>> Pretty cool. Check it out, folks. So, yeah, you know, you've got your number formatting and your dynamic array formula spills and then it doesn't carry the formatting down.

[00:47:14]>> Couple of clicks, job done. I think it's running Office JS script or something in the background.

[00:47:22]>> Yeah.

[00:47:22]>> But uh yeah, so it only works on your workbook if you've got the addin installed, >> but still fantastic times saver.

[00:47:31]>> Yeah, very cool.

[00:47:33]>> Uh right, what else are we chatting about? Uh >> the week of the week.

[00:47:40]>> Question of the week. Oh yeah, hold on then. Let's well >> in [laughter] sort of segueed into it really a little bit. So, let me get the tune. Hold on.

[00:47:52]Media. Here we go. And let's go.

[00:47:56]>> It's the question. It's the question.

[00:47:58]It's the question of the week. It's the question. [music] It's the question. It's the question of the week.

[00:48:10]So, it is what's the thing that took you the longest to understand?

[00:48:17]Now, I reckon we can take this a few different directions in terms of your interpretation of that question.

[00:48:23]Um, Giles, do you want to uh kick us off? uh this isn't a finished journey but I think the lambda functions in particular scan reduce and map just conceptually getting my head around what on earth a lambda was initially [snorts] >> and then what those three did uh took me so long and and I had people like Craig Hatmaker handholding me through entire like journeys on this stuff. Um, once [clears throat] it clicked, it clicked.

[00:48:56]But I I'm very aware there are then layers beyond that. But yeah, that that took a long time for me.

[00:49:04]>> I still haven't looked into it enough.

[00:49:07]>> And I was trying to get Luke to explain thanks to me as well as the >> Yeah.

[00:49:13]>> Good lord.

[00:49:14]>> He was trying his best and I just couldn't get my head around what he's talking about. So >> yeah, thanks.

[00:49:22]>> How old is Luke? Uh, oh, I'm gonna 25 26.

[00:49:29]>> He's clever. Very clever. Probably I probably >> overagged him there. I'm not actually.

[00:49:34][laughter] >> Well, you'll soon find out if he listens or not.

[00:49:38]>> No, we won't listen to this. He's got He's got a life. He's out doing stuff.

[00:49:41]24, basketball, and god [snorts] knows what else, isn't it? Um, yeah. Okay. So, okay, good. Uh, Mark, do you wanna? So I will I'll answer this and then I'll also give a a second example and what then that second example then taught me as well. So my first answer is going to be a VBA right because you know just back in the day you used to find these scripts on stack overflow or the Mr. Excel forum and you just used to copy and paste and just be like please work please. Um and often they didn't etc etc. But it took me a long time to realize because it was just like here here's a block of code just you people just use this. um took me a long time to how easy VBA actually is when you understand what it's trying what it's for and what it's trying to do and you go actually there's just this you know you've got the document object model which is just a map of where everything is and then really you're just saying find this thing in in my map do this thing to it or do this thing to the thing in my map lots of times. So once you go, oh really it's just about finding something and then doing something to it, it then became, oh, this is easy. I can now find anything at all. What what why is this so complex? And it wasn't and it wasn't complex. It's the fact that I I hadn't really I'd you know, you start down a route of where people talking about custom functions, all this other stuff and you got no chance. When I came to when I came to office scripts, then it's just gone like, hey, this this knowledge now just transfers across. I understand it's about a document object model and you're just trying to control objects.

[00:51:22]Now when I came to to learning M code equally that then that started off as being quite difficult [laughter] because it's kind of oh there's these secret object you put some stuff in curly brackets and square brackets and all this other stuff >> and then eventually I was like what's what's M code actually about and when I and when I decided that you look into it M code is just about the fact that there's values and there's 15 different value types and they just do different things and that's it that is that is the full complexity of M code. there are 15 values and they do different things and different functions do different things to these different values and on once I got that it's like oh so really it's just about how do you convert between these value types and stuff like that and suddenly it's like this now becomes much easier because it's not about because you you come into M code and or power query the first thing you see is a table and then you add a column and what you don't know is that you've just is that you've got a table which is a reasonably complex data structure to start with you've then added a table which includes a function argument and also iteration. So just at so you you kind of land in Power Query at a really advanced level rather than actually let's just step back. If you go like from the beginning like what's uh you know you've got you got you know you've got numbers, text, lists, dates, date times, all that. When you start there and you start to build it up because suddenly all it all just makes sense.

[00:52:40]But when you land in the middle of something or even towards the end of something and you've got no knowledge before when people start talking about list you're like whoa what's a list? How does it work? If you go from the beginning of how lists are constructed.

[00:52:54]So really, I think with a lot of [clears throat] things, we need to stop, you know, stop going down this route, go all the way back to the start, learn the basics, and then come back up to it and it just it solves lots of issues, but often we just get we start in the middle because all these things help us. You know, the map, it's there to help you.

[00:53:12]Yeah, it does until you want to tweak it and then you've got no idea. So, >> so I think understanding what the purpose of something, what the purpose of something is then and what it's meant to do then helps you to understand how it's structured and and how it works.

[00:53:27]But both both of those things were the thing I was slow to pick up on.

[00:53:32]>> And now co-pilot jumps you straight to the end.

[00:53:34]>> Yeah.

[00:53:35]>> Yeah. Easy peasy without without any knowledge. And who >> without any middle bit straight into the >> endology knowledge now just vibe it out.

[00:53:43]It's fine. One of my one of my most common uh co-pilot follow-up prompts uh is the phrase and now make this as simple as possible removing everything that is optional. And [laughter] it goes from like it's like it's like 50 lines of code and it comes back with one one line of code. [laughter] That's what I needed to know just that one line.

[00:54:03]>> Yeah, >> absolutely. Um Sue, >> um uh two things. one was uh modeling.

[00:54:14]So I came from a sort of a SQLish background where we had you split everything into the smallest source of table. So for an address you would take you would have a table for county, you would have a table for towns and you have one value um which is called 3NF.

[00:54:31]Um but when you go into PowerBI everything's normalized into one table for a um an address and these things are repeated. So town would be repeated um because it's a column based database. So once I realized that when they were talking about um normalizing your data and having a star schema that it meant that it was at 1 NF then everything became a lot clearer. But it was a real light bulb moment. And the thing that I still struggle with now is DAX and filter context and >> remove filters, keep filters all I've I've been on courses. I've had Alberto teach me face to face. Um, and I still have a moment of fear when I have to try and work out, okay, it's in this visual.

[00:55:29]I want this slicer to work. I want this, you know, these slices to work. I don't want it affected by that. How am I writing it? And that is still something that I um have to really think about.

[00:55:44]>> Yeah.

[00:55:45]>> That's your your argument for Excel Summit.

[00:55:50][laughter] >> I'll I'll jump on the calculate bandwagon. I've even got a session on this. Run it for Mark. sort of just not understanding like what calculator was really doing at the start and just chucking it in there and just going okay it's a bit like a sum if but what I don't quite understand now why putting that in makes and this difference >> so took a while and then the penny dropped um >> and VBA was one of mine I I actually took a bit of a different tack on this from a from a technical point of view and I went back to sort of in terms of experiences in my career So, my early days of work, something that took me a long time to realize was that senior people don't care how clever your spreadsheet was or [laughter] or what you did to get the answer or all the problems you had to address to to come up with a solution. They just want to know what's the answer, what should we do, what's the next thing, and then move on. So definitely sort of bashed my head against the wall a few times with that early early in my career.

[00:56:56]>> That is so so true. Even now I was trying I had a meeting earlier this week and I was trying to explain it's really complex stuff and I was saying but it doesn't add up you know it needs to be validated doesn't add up and it just said sue I don't care just give me give me and I like yeah but it doesn't add up it's not right the data is not correct it's you know it's there's issues with it and it just said Sue I don't care all I want to know is this and uh so it's it is that they don't they don't care you Is it is it is the answer good enough?

[00:57:30]Can it you know is it something that I can base logic on? Yes, you can. But you know the minuteite detail doesn't doesn't care. Don't care.

[00:57:41]>> Quite a lot. My like early financial modeling experience as well was just being at pains to try and explain to people and this is like senior people >> sort of that all the outputs result from their assumptions and they need to understand what the assumptions have gone in.

[00:57:58]>> But again it was just like you know we just go you know with this case what's what's the most likely outcome? Well it's this but and then as soon as you go to but they've switched off.

[00:58:07]>> Yeah.

[00:58:09]>> Is this the figure we had in our head?

[00:58:11]Yeah.

[00:58:11]>> Is that the figure we were expecting? If so, not interested in anything else you're about to say. So that was like, oh, okay, that's >> unless three months time that figure changes. And then they go, well, why is it changed? Well, these these are the assumptions that well, why do we make those assumptions? Because you said [laughter] you want these assumptions made >> document it.

[00:58:34]>> Used to have that on bids, uh, because I used to do a lot of bid modeling, you know, for contracts for the from the government. And you'd get to like the signoffs with the seniors and they're like, "No, that we can't go in at that price. We got to go in at that price, which is 20% cheaper." It's like, "Can you put that price?" It's like, "Well, you can, but you can't deliver the project." It's like, "Why not?" So, because all of thosememes, the subject matter experts that we brought in to tell us how much it would cost, that's the number they've given us or that's the range. They're like, "Well, that's not good enough." It's like, I don't know what to do. [laughter] What do you want me to say?

[00:59:10]>> Yeah. [snorts] Yeah. Um and then the other one was when I became a consultant was learning that building for somebody else is very different to building for yourself. So building a solution that you can you you can just you got to hand over it's just got to work.

[00:59:27][clears throat] >> They're not going to be able to know how to fix it if it breaks every five minutes or every month end or something like that. So trying to think ahead and make something bulletproof was definitely something that sort of took me a long time to sort of really appreciate. Um yeah, that was the other one. Oh, and people don't read instructions.

[00:59:44]>> No, never. [laughter] >> That was a hard lesson learned. No matter how big, >> doesn't matter how big the font is.

[00:59:52]>> No, >> people will not read them. I had a macro button >> or a little the little I button on your report that you know this is this is brought in from this data which does this this and you know or be aware that you know I button in yellow still never click on it or read it. Never do it.

[01:00:11]>> Yeah. So you got to build something that people aren't going to read the instructions. It's got to be [clears throat] built in a way that [snorts] >> in a structure in an order in a good user interface type way that people aren't gonna >> take a day to read the front page. If your PowerBI report I think if your PowerBI or any dashboard or thing has a cover page with all instructions and definitions for the front page.

[01:00:35]>> Yeah.

[01:00:38]>> These are the people these are the people using co-pilot without a care in the world now they it's those people.

[01:00:44]Simple is better. Clear, obvious, simple.

[01:00:49]>> But simple is also really hard, isn't it? To get >> something simple. It >> Yes.

[01:00:55]>> But it takes a long a long time. And >> you know, it's it's really really hard to make something simple.

[01:01:02]>> Yeah. Yeah. Because everything underneath has to be scaffolded and added up correct to to get to that nice simplicity.

[01:01:13]Totally.

[01:01:14]>> Um, >> all right. Are we wrapped up? Are we done?

[01:01:17]>> Y quite enjoyed that. That was good.

[01:01:20]>> So, is is the next time we chat gonna be in person >> in London?

[01:01:26]>> Yes.

[01:01:27]>> Wowers.

[01:01:29]>> I know.

[01:01:29]>> How about that? First time ever. First time I'll be meeting you in person when >> in indeed.

[01:01:36]>> I know. All your birthday the next day.

[01:01:39]What better birthday present than that, Charles? you know than to see you. I'll take that.

[01:01:44]>> Yeah.

[01:01:45]>> Giles, how bear in mind you've only ever seen when sat down. How tall do you think when is [laughter] right, is that when when you I when I met Dave Bruns from XLJ from his picture, I I assumed he was he wasn't that tall, but he's like 6'2 or something. I don't know really. And I just wasn't expecting it. So, how you know how tall do you think win is? Well, I probably always just default to assuming people are about my height, but I I don't know. I'm [laughter] like average height, 510, 5'11ish.

[01:02:19]>> What are you in?

[01:02:20]>> All be revealed to or will be revealed.

[01:02:23][laughter] >> Um, data Mozart. Um, >> oh, Nikolai. Nikolai. Lovely. Lovely.

[01:02:30]>> Yeah, >> he's very tall.

[01:02:33]>> And Gregor, are you going to Barcelona?

[01:02:37]No, no, not this [laughter] actually. Maybe next year. Um, right.

[01:02:44]Lovely. Um, yes, we will do a we'll try and interview a couple of people maybe um at the summit.

[01:02:51]>> Maybe we can find a few people to chat to and try and try and do a little session ourselves as well.

[01:02:56]>> I wonder if we can get our session recorded. Are they recorded?

[01:03:00]>> Uh, yeah, I think so. Yes.

[01:03:03]>> Yeah.

[01:03:04]>> Yeah.

[01:03:04]>> Our little debate about PowerBI and Excel.

[01:03:08]>> Yes. Well, we'll definitely have a little uh post post uh debate um review, I think.

[01:03:15]>> Highs and lows, you know, winners and losers, all that sort of stuff. Look forward to it.

[01:03:19]>> Yeah, >> we're all >> um yeah, really looking forward to catching up with everybody. Um please subscribe and like and all that stuff.

[01:03:29]go pop over to the YouTube channel and subscribe on that. That would be lovely if you're listening to on the uh on the podcast. And uh yeah, hope to see quite a few of you in person who are listening.

[01:03:39]>> Come say hello.

[01:03:41]>> Come and say hello.

[01:03:43]>> All right, folks. Catch you all later.

[01:03:46]Bye. Bye.

[01:03:47]>> Bye.